PDA

View Full Version : DECEIVER Dark Clone ability (suggestion)



Passarbye
17th Nov 2015, 22:41
I got this idea while thinking about Dominate mind because it works similarly just a bit different.

Instead of taking over another human, I thought it would be cool if a Deceiver could create a clone of himself which he can move around for a distraction to the humans. Just as a utility ability, so no damage but you could still 'fake' an attack (plays attack animation but no damage on hit).
Bolas and such would still attach to the clone, and it could either take a certain amount of damage or time before the close dissipates and you'd return to the original you're playing as.

This would give the Deceiver a bit of extra utility and would allow him to 'initiate' while also confusing players and drawing attention maybe to a different area.
The clone would also have the same skin you're using.

Maybe an altered version could also exist where when the clone attacks it produces dark smoke surrounding it, like a dark cloud. :scratch: Since shadow bomb got nerfed (or optimized, idk I can see through it mostly) there seems to be a lack of visual effect alteration to humans aside from Sentinel's screech. Just a thought.

Ygdrasel
17th Nov 2015, 23:16
Honestly, I feel like this is just what Illusions needs to be.

ParadoxicalOmen
18th Nov 2015, 17:14
I like the idea, but also agree with Ygdrasel.

I basically like the idea, because i want to distract the humans but my illusions are unreliable most times.
You summon them in hope to make a distraction, but they end up going to the opposite direction of where the humans are...

You know what would be fun?
If you could make Illusions for one single human, to distract him and also funny cause he would look crazy to other humans (shooting nothing) :D
Developing more this idea...it would be a single target ability, that would summon many clones/illusions. Only the target can see them, and the illusions necessarily "attack" the target (in other words, as you summon them they all go for the target...no running away)

PS: Op's suggestion made me remind of Styx's clone ability :)

SquirrelInDaSky
18th Nov 2015, 19:20
I like the idea, but also agree with Ygdrasel.

I basically like the idea, because i want to distract the humans but my illusions are unreliable most times.
You summon them in hope to make a distraction, but they end up going to the opposite direction of where the humans are...



Illusions are about shielding you from CC abilities and shots, thats the primary use. They are the whole reason why players without AoE skills struggle against decievers. Distraction is not as important of a role, since you can tell you are dealing with illusion by shooting 1 bullet and seing half the healthbar disappear.

Ygdrasel
18th Nov 2015, 21:20
Illusions are about shielding you from CC abilities and shots, thats the primary use. They are the whole reason why players without AoE skills struggle against decievers. Distraction is not as important of a role, since you can tell you are dealing with illusion by shooting 1 bullet and seing half the healthbar disappear.

They don't do that though. Illusions immediately run away from the fight and leave the Deceiver, making them nigh worthless as a defensive mechanism and only kind of useful for evasive measures.

ParadoxicalOmen
19th Nov 2015, 01:45
They don't do that though. Illusions immediately run away from the fight and leave the Deceiver, making them nigh worthless as a defensive mechanism and only kind of useful for evasive measures.

Indeed, but since illusions have health they are often used in the same way Summoners use their minions (as a shield).

(...)
Sad no one cared for my idea though...

TheDreamcrusher
19th Nov 2015, 01:57
I like the idea, but also agree with Ygdrasel.

I basically like the idea, because i want to distract the humans but my illusions are unreliable most times.
You summon them in hope to make a distraction, but they end up going to the opposite direction of where the humans are...

You know what would be fun?
If you could make Illusions for one single human, to distract him and also funny cause he would look crazy to other humans (shooting nothing) :D
Developing more this idea...it would be a single target ability, that would summon many clones/illusions. Only the target can see them, and the illusions necessarily "attack" the target (in other words, as you summon them they all go for the target...no running away)

PS: Op's suggestion made me remind of Styx's clone ability :)

I like it. Call it Hallucinations. Shows false humans appearing like Disguise and false deceivers disappearing for about 5 seconds, all being aggressive towards your target. They don't absorb damage but are visual distractions and cause anxiety and confusion.

Ygdrasel
19th Nov 2015, 03:24
Indeed, but since illusions have health they are often used in the same way Summoners use their minions (as a shield).

(...)
Sad no one cared for my idea though...

Your idea was good. The Deceivers are said to mess with human minds but so far, there's very little of that really going on. Having one guy wildly shooting at what isn't there, that'd be the way to do it...

Passarbye
19th Nov 2015, 18:12
I think hallucinations would also be cool, but I kind of wrote this to be either an alternative to Illusions or a replacement for them.

Like I said, I think this could add some utility for the Deceiver, because as is he has no escapes or ways to actually fool any players without concealing himself only to be found out shortly after (and thrashed). With my idea you could either go in like you normally would, or send a Dark clone to make the humans waste abilities or engage and draw attention, thus allowing you to enter later with less risk to dying initially. I think this could also be a RMB ability if it's too powerful in combination with Disguise/ Dominate Mind.

I intentionally was vague on the amount of damage/seconds it would last because the devs would have to test that in QA anyway. I would like to have a cancel button for it though, because that would be useful if they aren't taking the bait or if you need to enter the fray.

Just an idea, I know you guys would like more 'mind ****' abilities, and I kind of would too, but there would be too much going on and I fear stimulus overload would take hold. And if the ability (hallucinations) were too obvious, then it wouldn't be worth it. Then again, it's all up to how it's implemented.

kLauE187
19th Nov 2015, 18:36
I think hallucinations would also be cool, but I kind of wrote this to be either an alternative to Illusions or a replacement for them.

Like I said, I think this could add some utility for the Deceiver, because as is he has no escapes or ways to actually fool any players without concealing himself only to be found out shortly after (and thrashed). With my idea you could either go in like you normally would, or send a Dark clone to make the humans waste abilities or engage and draw attention, thus allowing you to enter later with less risk to dying initially. I think this could also be a RMB ability if it's too powerful in combination with Disguise/ Dominate Mind.

I intentionally was vague on the amount of damage/seconds it would last because the devs would have to test that in QA anyway. I would like to have a cancel button for it though, because that would be useful if they aren't taking the bait or if you need to enter the fray.

Just an idea, I know you guys would like more 'mind ****' abilities, and I kind of would too, but there would be too much going on and I fear stimulus overload would take hold. And if the ability (hallucinations) were too obvious, then it wouldn't be worth it. Then again, it's all up to how it's implemented.

Who would fall for this? A good deceiver always goes in with disguise, you think someone get tricked if a deceiver "hallucination" randomly walks in and immediately blows everything onto him? If it's a RMB ability you can't gapclose after it and join the fight after you baited your team to fight 3on4. It's not like deceiver has problems in the current state to engage or cause trouble, because that's all the class is about if you play with disguise/infect/illusions. And if you would replace "hallucination" with "illusions" you can't even 1on1 a human in close combat.

As RMB-ability which can be cast on a vampire to make a copy exactly next to him and sync his movement for like 10s and give him 1/2 health would make it pretty decent for tyrants/sents. And also balanced since you loose your gapcloser.

Ygdrasel
20th Nov 2015, 00:23
I fear stimulus overload would take hold.

It's nowhere even approaching that serious, c'mon...

This clone thing ought to replace Illusions. It could keep the name but this function is clearly better.

@kLau: Deceivers are met without disguises on all the time in the heat of battle. Because they can't fight while disguised.

ParadoxicalOmen
20th Nov 2015, 13:57
I like it. Call it Hallucinations. Shows false humans appearing like Disguise and false deceivers disappearing for about 5 seconds, all being aggressive towards your target. They don't absorb damage but are visual distractions and cause anxiety and confusion.

"Hallucinations"...i like it :)

But yeah, i had something like this in mind.
It would be pretty good to use against Scout, to scare them out of vantage point...cause they won't be sure if you are coming with the Hallucinations.
But i think it would be better used combined with Dominate Mind. I myself try many times to use Illusions as distraction so i can use DM (but they often don't work).



Who would fall for this? A good deceiver always goes in with disguise, you think someone get tricked if a deceiver "hallucination" randomly walks in and immediately blows everything onto him? If it's a RMB ability you can't gapclose after it and join the fight after you baited your team to fight 3on4.

I think Passarbye is talking about the "Dark Clone" Ability, not the "Hallucinations" one.



This clone thing ought to replace Illusions. It could keep the name but this function is clearly better.


I don't agree, because Illusions can be used for different purposes:
1) Shield/Confusion so you can attack, and your Illusions will absorb most damage.
2) An escape ability, since they can also be used as shield (even though i know which one is the real one, the illusions often are in the way) or simply to confuse...

This "dark clone" wouldn't serve these purposes above. It's a way to safely get in, so you can distract and make the humans waste they abilities. Also i got the impression that this "dark clone" is controllable and would be only 1 clone (with probably higher health).

kLauE187
20th Nov 2015, 14:19
I think Passarbye is talking about the "Dark Clone" Ability, not the "Hallucinations" one.
Yeah i meant "dark clone", doesnt change the fact that the ability itself is useless.


I don't agree, because Illusions can be used for different purposes:
1) Shield/Confusion so you can attack, and your Illusions will absorb most damage.
2) An escape ability, since they can also be used as shield (even though i know which one is the real one, the illusions often are in the way) or simply to confuse...

This "dark clone" wouldn't serve these purposes above. It's a way to safely get in, so you can distract and make the humans waste they abilities. Also i got the impression that this "dark clone" is controllable and would be only 1 clone (with probably higher health).

The main-reason why illusions are so good in highskilled play is the fact that they cause distraction for follow-up and can block cc and soak up damage if timed right. They also force hunter to blow their explosives on them otherwise they would have no chance to fight a deceiver in close combat.

Dark clone would make completely no sense at all. 1 illusion you can control who deals no damage? You could bodyblock a scout but if you want to do this just go ignore pain. If you control the clone you can't attack yourself. Means you need to use it BEFORE the engage, but a deceiver normally comes in with disguise. So who would fall for this? Maybe people in new recruit :scratch:

ParadoxicalOmen
21st Nov 2015, 12:01
Dark clone would make completely no sense at all. 1 illusion you can control who deals no damage? You could bodyblock a scout but if you want to do this just go ignore pain. If you control the clone you can't attack yourself. Means you need to use it BEFORE the engage, but a deceiver normally comes in with disguise. So who would fall for this? Maybe people in new recruit :scratch:

Wait a minute, so you're proposing a dark clone that also does damage? This feels unbalanced.
Unless the clone does reduced damage, and you take part of the damage he receives...but if this is the case, seems a rather pointless ability (not sure).

Raptr0s
3rd Dec 2015, 23:11
I think illusions should hide their health bars but still show number damage, that way, it's harder to discern who the real one is without killing the illusions themselves.

ParadoxicalOmen
4th Dec 2015, 01:48
I don't think Illusions needs a fix...i would rather see a new ability, like the dark clone or Hallucinations.