PDA

View Full Version : FREEPORT Bring back Tyrant's ability to throw humans in water?



ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 22:06
Back in the day, in closed beta, we were able to throw humans into Freeport's water.
I personally loved this...made me excited every time i was in Freeport cause i could try to make the humans swim with the fishes.

I never saw anyone complaining about this, but the devs ended up patching Freeport and we can no longer do this...
I decided to make this poll to know if i'm basically alone here wanting this back.

Passarbye
17th Nov 2015, 22:29
Voting no myself. Sentinels can't drop you in the water, much less take a human over it, so why should tyrants have a distinct advantage on a particular map?

I believe the devs wanted to avoid map based advantages (or at least insta-kills) because it would imbalance the game worse than it already is.

Ygdrasel
17th Nov 2015, 23:29
Voting no myself. Sentinels can't drop you in the water, much less take a human over it, so why should tyrants have a distinct advantage on a particular map?

I believe the devs wanted to avoid map based advantages (or at least insta-kills) because it would imbalance the game worse than it already is.

Now, see, I would say the whole "Sentinels can't take you over water" thing is a flaw. It does nothing but prematurely interrupt the ability.

I say let Sents drop humans over water AND let Tyrants throw into water. But don't let water insta-kill - just auto-warp humans to nearby land, say the central dock.

ParadoxicalOmen
18th Nov 2015, 01:15
Voting no myself. Sentinels can't drop you in the water, much less take a human over it, so why should tyrants have a distinct advantage on a particular map?

I believe the devs wanted to avoid map based advantages (or at least insta-kills) because it would imbalance the game worse than it already is.

Well, i dunno if you ever tried it or had it done on you...but it isn't easy. The human needed to be touching the "rope part" near the water for it to work...if this wasn't the case, the human would just hit the rope and bounce back.
So this wasn't an extreme advantage...it's pretty easy to avoid as human.

And secondly, i thought it added an interesting element to the map...you could actually interact with it! Just as vamps can fall in water, or you can warbow a sentinel in water (scout); humans were able to be thrown into water by Tyrant (i never tested if same was possible with wingflap btw)


Now, see, I would say the whole "Sentinels can't take you over water" thing is a flaw. It does nothing but prematurely interrupt the ability.

This has always been a pain, and rather unfair to Sents.


I say let Sents drop humans over water AND let Tyrants throw into water. But don't let water insta-kill - just auto-warp humans to nearby land, say the central dock.

Ah, but this takes the fun right out of it...also it would just be weird having humans teleporting back.

GenFeelGood
18th Nov 2015, 01:33
I never experienced this, but I want it back if it was possible. Freeport is my least favorite map because of the water, it needs something to give as much of an edge to the vampires as it does to the humans.

Heretic_13
18th Nov 2015, 07:10
I vot yes- any kind of Enviromental Kills should be possible- not only in the water- we have burning bulidings for example. They not only are cool looking, but also speak a lot about your strategy and smart usage of abilities.
But of course humans should also be able to knock vampires in to water and fire- and this time- insta-kill, by explosions or melee attacks(whip for example)

GrayPhilosophy
18th Nov 2015, 08:58
Yes. Tyrants, sentinels and Deciever's mind control (if there are any points where you can simply walk into it).

If done right, vampires can still be thrown in the water. Sentinels can be disrupted while flying over it and Tyrants or Reavers can overshoot their pounce/jump and land in it.

Might also encourage people to use other parts of the map instead of always huddling up at the docks.

Ygdrasel
18th Nov 2015, 09:26
Ah, but this takes the fun right out of it...also it would just be weird having humans teleporting back.

No weirder than anything else. And it does ruin the fun but it's the only way to silence the "WTF UNFAIR" crowd. Though, I would note that the water does currently kill vampires - I pounced right into the stuff once. XD

@Heretic: Whip insta-killing makes no sense.

@Gray: Frankly, a lot needs to be done to discourage the 'huddle points' on various maps. The Fane might as well be reduced to that one open area that the humans always camp. Overall, I still support stricter health station parameters for this purpose but environmental hazards - for both sides - would work too.

ParadoxicalOmen
18th Nov 2015, 17:21
If done right, vampires can still be thrown in the water. Sentinels can be disrupted while flying over it and Tyrants or Reavers can overshoot their pounce/jump and land in it.

Might also encourage people to use other parts of the map instead of always huddling up at the docks.

I thought about this too...currently the dock is the best place to camp/huddle in Freeport...this would act as a trade-off for the vampires. It's more dangerous for the vamps, but if you are lucky you might get that water-kill.


No weirder than anything else. And it does ruin the fun but it's the only way to silence the "WTF UNFAIR" crowd. Though, I would note that the water does currently kill vampires - I pounced right into the stuff once. XD


I don't see this as unfair, as i said to Passarbye:


Well, i dunno if you ever tried it or had it done on you...but it isn't easy. The human needed to be touching the "rope part" near the water for it to work...if this wasn't the case, the human would just hit the rope and bounce back.
So this wasn't an extreme advantage...it's pretty easy to avoid as human.

And secondly, i thought it added an interesting element to the map...you could actually interact with it! Just as vamps can fall in water, or you can warbow a sentinel in water (scout); humans were able to be thrown into water by Tyrant (i never tested if same was possible with wingflap btw)

Heretic_13
19th Nov 2015, 10:37
Whip insta-killing makes no sense.

Whip, or any melle attack, that push back in to fire, or water. In other words- you hit vampire with a whip in the center of the map, he just recives damage, do the same near some threat and boom!

River_
19th Nov 2015, 11:56
Really, I am voting yes! Would love to see this. Currently, I hate freeport. Especially around docks, where vampires can barely set up, it favors the humans. So allowing us to more aggresively engage (by throwing/kidnapping humans into the water), would be a great step forward.

HOWEVER, I do see the potential of this being OP. For example, class spamming sentinel to get cheap kills. So my advice would be to slightly change the docks area. Put a large ship in the water, inbetween 2 docks. This way, you can get thrown against that, or put on it as human, and dodge-roll to safety.
At least something that would make sure you need to engage smartly. Or high risk high reward? Lots of view, but you are easily thrown in the water, or less view, but your back is against a ship/house/whatever, so you are safe from that.

Ygdrasel
20th Nov 2015, 00:26
Whip, or any melle attack, that push back in to fire, or water. In other words- you hit vampire with a whip in the center of the map, he just recives damage, do the same near some threat and boom!

Fire insta-killing wouldn't make sense still. Alchemists don't insta-kill anything. And there are currently no places where one can be whipped into the water as far as I know but it would be a nice touch.

ParadoxicalOmen
20th Nov 2015, 14:10
Really, I am voting yes! Would love to see this. Currently, I hate freeport. Especially around docks, where vampires can barely set up, it favors the humans. So allowing us to more aggresively engage (by throwing/kidnapping humans into the water), would be a great step forward.


My thought's exactly :)



HOWEVER, I do see the potential of this being OP. For example, class spamming sentinel to get cheap kills.

Oh nooo. My suggestion is for only Tyrant's Throw ability. Sentinel's Kidnap/Abduct would remain the same, or else it will be unplayable for humans.

I don't know about Wing Flap though, if it would be nice for this to also make humans fall in water. My doubt is mainly because Sentinel is much faster than Tyrant, and the Wing Flap ability also is much faster than Throw.

For instance, if a Tyrant were to Throw a human into water, he would have to get close. So he would either Charge/Jump to get close, or simply sneak close. After this Tyrant would Grab, BUT Grab is slow...so there is still chance for a nearby Human to knockdown/stagger Tyrant.

Now sentinel can just fly into the Humans face, use Wing Flap and it done...you could still knockdown/stagger him when he lands, or try to take him out of the air, but this seems much harder to do since it requires a faster reaction time from your team.

SonixSquad
20th Nov 2015, 14:56
Voted no.
No need for such a mechanic. Taking a human (short term, I understand you don't mean instadeath, but) out of the game for 20 seconds with one ability, then Sentinels will want it too, commence moaning.
And Humans auto spawning back on land? Yeh I can see those water edge spawns getting abused to hell by Vampires. Spawn protection?... nah. Unless you make them spawn randomly around the map, which means an extra 10 second to get back to the fight.
Just forget it.

EDIT: Allow it for finishing moves only, see my post below.

Razaiim
21st Nov 2015, 00:03
I vote no. It just has too many issues with it. It's inconsistent with other abilities that launch humans such as Shockwave, Wingflap, Pounce+savage pounce and Kidnap. There's also the issue of is it instakill. If yes then we got a problem with balance and eliminating that section of the map for play. If it's not instakill then you need away for the humans to return to the playing area.

I prefer to leave the whole interaction as is. If you want to talk environment interactions, I'd like to see maybe a mist or haze that obscures vision. Right at the waters edge is similar to shadow bomb, and it scales down from there.

Ygdrasel
21st Nov 2015, 01:22
Voted no.
No need for such a mechanic. Taking a human (short term, I understand you don't mean instadeath, but) out of the game for 20 seconds with one ability, then Sentinels will want it too, commence moaning.
And Humans auto spawning back on land? Yeh I can see those water edge spawns getting abused to hell by Vampires. Spawn protection?... nah. Unless you make them spawn randomly around the map, which means an extra 10 second to get back to the fight.
Just forget it.

...Twenty seconds? Where'd you get that number? And Sentinels should have it, or at least the ability to carry humans over it.

And humans already spawn randomly around the map after death so it's no different. They'll just have to quit relying so much on the docks.


If it's not instakill then you need away for the humans to return to the playing area.

Respawn them same as with a death.

ParadoxicalOmen
21st Nov 2015, 12:44
I have been testing around Freeport's map, and i have thought of a more "fair" way to cast humans into water.

But before my suggestion, a quick briefing of how it is now:
Basically all over the docks there are invisible walls near the ropes that go aaall the up. These walls block everything, that is: no ability can make a human go past them...
I am unsure how these walls work exactly, like if it's possible for the walls to block Kidnap/Abduct but not block a human that was Thrown/Wing Flapped. For my suggestion it would have to be a selective barrier, only blocking kidnap/abduct.

Now to how i think it could be:
In the docks, i believe there to be 4 points in which Throwing the humans into water could be considered "fair".
The basic idea is, this would have to be a combo-kill:
A sentinel grabs a human, drops him on top of these high points; a Tyrant is already there waiting and Throws human into water.
(some of these points a Wing Flap would work, other not because of the push range...Tyrant throw goes much further).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0a1thowzp4j2rzs/Nosgoth-Map-Freeport-Overhead%5Bedit%5D.jpg?dl=0

I believe the amount of coordination and skill required to do this justifies it not being "cheated".

PS: Orange is the invisible wall, Green are the high points, and red vector represents a Tyrant's thow or Sentinel's Wing Flap

SonixSquad
21st Nov 2015, 12:58
Heres my suggestion which is simple and wouldn't take a huge deal to implement.

One idea that came to mind is to allow throwing into the water only if the Human has less than or equal to the amount of damage the water does. Yes, this means the water is not instakill, it inflicts damage BUT you only allow the throw to bypass the invisible barrier IF the Human has less HP than the damage the water will inflict.
In other words, throwing/abducting Humans into the water is a finishing move only. The invisible barrier still blocks the move if the Human would not die.

Sort of like the Human Vampire execution (Vampire head explodes). You only see it when you get the finishing shot on a a Vampire.

I also like River_'s idea.

Off topic Freeport map balance idea:
The other sensible suggestion I have seen here is to add mist around the edge where the water meets land and therefore partly obscuring vision for both sides like a never ending but white mist. Make it so it dissipates slightly for a period allowing a moment of clarity and timed attacks to happen.
In fact why not add some of that (dissipating) mist to other spots in the map too where Scouts usually have a nice time setting up a tent.

ParadoxicalOmen
21st Nov 2015, 14:26
One idea that came to mind is to allow throwing into the water only if the Human has less than or equal to the amount of damage the water does. Yes, this means the water is not instakill, it inflicts damage BUT you only allow the throw to bypass the invisible barrier IF the Human has less HP than the damage the water will inflict.
In other words, throwing/abducting Humans into the water is a finishing move only. The invisible barrier still blocks the move if the Human would not die.


Probably the best solution, no complaining and we still get cool water kill :)

I still hope for my idea though, because Scouts CAN warbow sentinel, or even Reaver, into water if lucky
EDIT: I liked my "ceiling" idea, cause it's hard to do...so isn't exploitable, i think. Also you need 2 vampires to do it...




The other sensible suggestion I have seen here is to add mist around the edge where the water meets land and therefore partly obscuring vision for both sides like a never ending but white mist. Make it so it dissipates slightly for a period allowing a moment of clarity and timed attacks to happen.
In fact why not add some of that (dissipating) mist to other spots in the map too where Scouts usually have a nice time setting up a tent.


I confess i didn't understand this idea...is this to balance the docks, so humans don't camp? Or this have something to do with falling in water?

SonixSquad
21st Nov 2015, 14:34
Probably the best solution, no complaining and we still get cool water kill :)

I still hope for my idea though, because Scouts CAN warbow sentinel, or even Reaver, into water if lucky

Thanks :)
I guess in my suggestion, the water is still insta-kill to Vampires. Just not to Humans.







I confess i didn't understand this idea...is this to balance the docks, so humans don't camp? Or this have something to do with falling in water?

Balance.
Sorry slightly off-topic but someone mentioned it and I thought it was a cool idea. Seeming as the waterfront is so popular (its harder to pounce and Humans can't currently be thrown or knocked into the water) and since smoke got a huge nerf, lets just introduce some mist which serves 2 purposes. Vision obscurity in defensively strong locations and ambience :)
Who doesn't want to see mist in a game that involves Vampires?

http://www.victorianvampires.co.uk/images/london1.jpg?945

EDIT: I understand your suggestion now. Not a bad idea but sounds a bit complex to implement. Basically a Human can be thrown into the water only from those green spots on the map that are waterfront rooftops?. Sure it involves team play for it but sounds like a lot of work to kill 1 human instead of just coordinating a proper attack on the humans.

ParadoxicalOmen
21st Nov 2015, 14:45
Balance.
Sorry slightly off-topic but someone mentioned it and I thought it was a cool idea. Seeming as the waterfront is so popular (its harder to pounce and Humans can't currently be thrown or knocked into the water) and since smoke got a huge nerf, lets just introduce some mist which serves 2 purposes. Vision obscurity in defensively strong locations and ambience :)
Who doesn't want to see mist in a game that involves Vampires?

Not a bad idea, i would suggest you or someone post it in another thread also, just so the idea doesn't get lost here.

ParadoxicalOmen
24th Nov 2015, 17:46
Dunno if i should start a new poll listing the possible "solutions" for Freeport.

So far they are:

1) Allow all "pushing" abilities (like shock-wave, wing flap, throw) to cast human into water...but not abduct/kidnap (for obvious reasons).

2) Allow all abilities to cast humans into water, but instead of dying humans get warped back somewhere into map (Ygdrasel)

3) Allow all abilities to cast humans over the dock ropes, but change the map include lots of ships by water so you can't cast them so easily into water (River_)

4) Reduce the height of the invisible walls on the ropes, allowing for combos where sentinel puts a human on top of a building and THEN being cast into water.
(In other words, you can't make them fall into water from the ground, you need to add some height)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0a1thowzp4j2rzs/Nosgoth-Map-Freeport-Overhead%5Bedit%5D.jpg?dl=0

5) Remove the invisible walls for low health players, this way falling in water won't be an insta-kill since the human was going to die anyway (SonixSquad)

ps: feel free to correct me if i didn't explain your ideas correctly

pss:


EDIT: I understand your suggestion now. Not a bad idea but sounds a bit complex to implement. Basically a Human can be thrown into the water only from those green spots on the map that are waterfront rooftops?. Sure it involves team play for it but sounds like a lot of work to kill 1 human instead of just coordinating a proper attack on the humans.

That's the idea :)
For it not to be easy, just as it isn't easy to make a vampire fall in water as human.

Ygdrasel
25th Nov 2015, 07:14
Option 5 sounds good but I have no idea if such a thing is actually doable. If so, by all means best option.
Option 3 sounds nice - mainly because I want new map stuff to oggle.
Option 4 sounds like you'd need a Sentinel to put them in place each time (the occasional stationed Scout notwithstanding). Eh.

If 1's to be the popular vote, I'd implement the 'warp to shore' option specifically for Abduct/Kidnap. I don't care about dropping them in for insta-kills. It's the dumb Kidnap-interrupting magic barrier over the water that bothers me.

For #2, they could implement a series of 'warp points' all along the waterfront (which is to say the area with the central dock and the areas immediately to its left and right - also popular human camps) with the exact point of re-entry being randomized each time. Prevents any overt exploitation on the vampire side with such a wide area to cover.

ParadoxicalOmen
28th Nov 2015, 22:05
Well, was fun debating about this...but devs wont give it much thought since, from the poll results, it's not something people really want...

I do hope they consider perhaps a mode where this would be possible.
Honestly, getting that water insta-kill is very satisfying...be it warbow-ing a Sentinel into water, Knifing a vampire stuck at those ropes into water, or (how is was back then) Throwing a human across the docks into water...is always awesome.

Ygdrasel
28th Nov 2015, 22:28
Well, was fun debating about this...but devs wont give it much thought since, from the poll results, it's not something people really want...

I do hope they consider perhaps a mode where this would be possible.
Honestly, getting that water insta-kill is very satisfying...be it warbow-ing a Sentinel into water, Knifing a vampire stuck at those ropes into water, or (how is was back then) Throwing a human across the docks into water...is always awesome.

Not sure that conclusion can be drawn too reliably since only fourteen people even bothered with the poll - and most voted for it. It would be very satisfying though...

ParadoxicalOmen
1st Dec 2015, 00:57
@Ygdrasel

Yup, i agree...but it wasn't cheated back then (was pretty hard to do), and i didn't see anyone complain about it. Yet the devs still took it out, so my guess is it's a no no :hmm:

River_
2nd Dec 2015, 09:03
Time to bring this back to the attention of people! :D

ParadoxicalOmen
2nd Dec 2015, 23:56
Time to bring this back to the attention of people! :D

Fo shizzle

Raptr0s
3rd Dec 2015, 22:00
The last thing we need is to give Sentinels an insta-kill opportunity as they are already bad enough as is.

ParadoxicalOmen
4th Dec 2015, 01:31
The last thing we need is to give Sentinels an insta-kill opportunity as they are already bad enough as is.

You didn't read any of the posts here...did you?
Since you won't read, i'll clarify...no one is suggesting or suggested giving the sentinel an easy insta-kill with abduct/kidnap.

We are suggesting fair and skillful ways to treate the dock area, without the use of the invisible barrier the devs put around it:


Dunno if i should start a new poll listing the possible "solutions" for Freeport.

So far they are:

1) Allow all "pushing" abilities (like shock-wave, wing flap, throw) to cast human into water...but not abduct/kidnap (for obvious reasons).

2) Allow all abilities to cast humans into water, but instead of dying humans get warped back somewhere into map (Ygdrasel)

3) Allow all abilities to cast humans over the dock ropes, but change the map include lots of ships by water so you can't cast them so easily into water (River_)

4) Reduce the height of the invisible walls on the ropes, allowing for combos where sentinel puts a human on top of a building and THEN being cast into water.
(In other words, you can't make them fall into water from the ground, you need to add some height)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0a1thowzp4j2rzs/Nosgoth-Map-Freeport-Overhead%5Bedit%5D.jpg?dl=0

5) Remove the invisible walls for low health players, this way falling in water won't be an insta-kill since the human was going to die anyway (SonixSquad)

ps: feel free to correct me if i didn't explain your ideas correctly

Raptr0s
4th Dec 2015, 01:36
I just think it doesn't really need to be added.

I'm not against this, but are you sure the devs would really take the time to implement this?

Ygdrasel
6th Dec 2015, 01:09
I'm not against this, but are you sure the devs would really take the time to implement this?

We're not sure that the devs would take the time to implement anything ever suggested here. That's no reason not to suggest. If it were, it'd be a much deader forum. XD


The last thing we need is to give Sentinels an insta-kill opportunity as they are already bad enough as is.

Yeah, they're super bad with their inability to fly over water...

perpetualodium
6th Dec 2015, 07:28
1) Allow all "pushing" abilities (like shock-wave, wing flap, throw) to cast human into water...but not abduct/kidnap (for obvious reasons).

2) Allow all abilities to cast humans into water, but instead of dying humans get warped back somewhere into map (Ygdrasel)

3) Allow all abilities to cast humans over the dock ropes, but change the map include lots of ships by water so you can't cast them so easily into water (River_)

4) Reduce the height of the invisible walls on the ropes, allowing for combos where sentinel puts a human on top of a building and THEN being cast into water.
(In other words, you can't make them fall into water from the ground, you need to add some height)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0a1thowzp4j2rzs/Nosgoth-Map-Freeport-Overhead%5Bedit%5D.jpg?dl=0

5) Remove the invisible walls for low health players, this way falling in water won't be an insta-kill since the human was going to die anyway (SonixSquad)

These ideas are all laughably silly.

River_
6th Dec 2015, 11:18
These ideas are all laughably silly.

Next time you say something like that, at least show up with an idea that is actually better. Now you just look like a certain hole at the end of the human digestive system.

perpetualodium
6th Dec 2015, 17:09
Next time you say something like that, at least show up with an idea that is actually better. Now you just look like a certain hole at the end of the human digestive system.

This isn't something that needs to be changed. It's a total non-issue.

Ygdrasel
6th Dec 2015, 21:45
These ideas are all laughably silly.


Not really. Silly would probably involve a clown.

River_
7th Dec 2015, 00:54
This isn't something that needs to be changed. It's a total non-issue.

You are right. It is not an issue. That is why this is in the feedback and suggestions tab. Also, it seems people want it changed, otherwise this post wouldn't exist.

perpetualodium
7th Dec 2015, 02:17
You are right. It is not an issue. That is why this is in the feedback and suggestions tab. Also, it seems people want it changed, otherwise this post wouldn't exist.

It's a silly thing to want changed. That's my opinion. People complain about real issues that haven't been fixed, and then they want the team to spend time on stuff like this.

TheDreamcrusher
7th Dec 2015, 03:14
It's a silly thing to want changed. That's my opinion. People complain about real issues that haven't been fixed, and then they want the team to spend time on stuff like this.

People had and still have opinions about layouts of the maps, such as the Valeholm mansion and Sommerdam bridge and turret. This is also a map layout discussion and also determining a precedent for any future maps with real environmental hazards besides high heights.

I'm in the camp that the map layout should be changed a little bit so that the dock barrier is a little higher such as some buildings or ships, but full death is still possible for either side. Kidnap would be the easiest to use to take advantage of the location. I'm not imaginative enough at the moment to say how Throw could be used... Unless Tyrants were actually throwing humans through a breakable net/panel and the remaining opening couldn't be walked through with something like Dominate Mind, but Wing Flap might get someone through.

SonixSquad
7th Dec 2015, 23:56
It's a silly thing to want changed. That's my opinion. People complain about real issues that haven't been fixed, and then they want the team to spend time on stuff like this.


Most sensible people will refrain from commenting on things they find silly.
This is something that used to exist and that could be reintroduced at some point in the future if there is enough interest and the game still exists. Noone mentioned prioritising this over bugs, this is a forum for discussion. please feel free to not take part in discussing something you find silly.

perpetualodium
8th Dec 2015, 01:36
Most sensible people will refrain from commenting on things they find silly.
This is something that used to exist and that could be reintroduced at some point in the future if there is enough interest and the game still exists. Noone mentioned prioritising this over bugs, this is a forum for discussion. please feel free to not take part in discussing something you find silly.

The ideas in this thread are silly. That's my opinion, and I shared it. Big deal.

Didn't mean to upset you.

Ygdrasel
8th Dec 2015, 03:15
The ideas in this thread are silly. That's my opinion, and I shared it. Big deal.

Didn't mean to upset you.

What is it, exactly, that makes these ideas "silly"?
Just the word doesn't say anything.

perpetualodium
8th Dec 2015, 04:08
What is it, exactly, that makes these ideas "silly"?
Just the word doesn't say anything.

If you can't tell that these ideas are silly, then I'd have to guess it's because yours is the silliest. Warping the human players back to land? Some of your other ideas on this forum have been decent, but this one's just laughable.

1) It's immersion breaking.

2) It doesn't make any sense.

3) The game's fine the way it is.

Ygdrasel
8th Dec 2015, 07:32
If you can't tell that these ideas are silly, then blah de blah things and stuff

"Elaborate your position."
"IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT, IT'S BECAUSE YOUR IDEAS SUCK!"

Right. Brilliant rebuttal.

What exactly is immersion-breaking about Tyrants being able to throw people into water, or Sentinels dropping them in? Immersion is broken by an invisible wall at the docks and you seem to have no problem there. And it makes perfect sense that people would fall into water if thrown or dropped there.

perpetualodium
8th Dec 2015, 18:14
"Elaborate your position."
"IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT, IT'S BECAUSE YOUR IDEAS SUCK!"

Right. Brilliant rebuttal.

What exactly is immersion-breaking about Tyrants being able to throw people into water, or Sentinels dropping them in? Immersion is broken by an invisible wall at the docks and you seem to have no problem there. And it makes perfect sense that people would fall into water if thrown or dropped there.

You're intentionally ignoring the fact that you suggested that players should be warped back to the central dock. That's incredibly dumb, and much more immersion breaking than the Sentinel automatically dropping their victim after a certain point.

You're hilarious, by the way. I'm really enjoying this.

Ygdrasel
8th Dec 2015, 21:16
the Sentinel automatically dropping their victim after a certain point.

...That isn't even an issue. That's literally just how Kidnap works, dropping the victim after a certain point. And I'm not ignoring what I suggested, I'm trying to keep you focused on the original question I posed to you (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=183520&p=2189558#post2189558). But hell with it. I've no patience for your kind. You're dismissed.

Raptr0s
8th Dec 2015, 21:24
Goddamn, people getting heated in here because some dude thought this suggestion was unnecessary and kinda laughable.

I think this suggestion is unnecessary too, and yeah, kinda laughable.

But that's just me. This wouldn't be a good suggestion forum if everyone agreed on everything.

There's bound to be differing opinions, let the guy have his opinion like you guys have yours.

No need to be out for blood.

perpetualodium
8th Dec 2015, 23:04
...That isn't even an issue. That's literally just how Kidnap works, dropping the victim after a certain point.

I'm talking about the Sentinel dropping his victim when he attempts to fly over the water.


And I'm not ignoring what I suggested, I'm trying to keep you focused on the original question I posed to you (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=183520&p=2189558#post2189558).

I answered your question.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I'm going to continue to be patient with you, but I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension.


But hell with it. I've no patience for your kind. You're dismissed.

No patience for my kind? I'm dismissed? It wasn't my intention to upset you. Maybe it's time to take a break and play some Nosgoth? :)

Raptr0s
8th Dec 2015, 23:09
#rekt

Ygdrasel
8th Dec 2015, 23:56
I answered your question.

You didn't though. I asked you how these ideas - each of them, as you applied the label to every one - are "silly" (and laughable, but I didn't quote that bit). You honed in on and mocked my particular take on the idea, insultingly so for one not meaning to upset, while not answering for the other options.

But let's get back on point:

What exactly is immersion-breaking about Tyrants being able to throw people into water, or Sentinels dropping them in? How does a logical event which makes perfect sense within the game's universe break immersion?

If you just find the whole thing unnecessary (a different thing from 'laughable' and 'silly'), fine but you needn't make up criticisms of broken immersion and senselessness (which, while arguably applicable to the warping concept, don't fit in regard to many of the other ideas here) in that case.

And I do tend to get heated. Apologies.

perpetualodium
9th Dec 2015, 00:42
If you just find the whole thing unnecessary (a different thing from 'laughable' and 'silly'), fine but you needn't make up criticisms of broken immersion and senselessness (which, while arguably applicable to the warping concept, don't fit in regard to many of the other ideas here) in that case.

That's what I was talking about, lol.


You didn't though. I asked you how these ideas - each of them, as you applied the label to every one - are "silly" (and laughable, but I didn't quote that bit).


1) Allow all "pushing" abilities (like shock-wave, wing flap, throw) to cast human into water...but not abduct/kidnap (for obvious reasons).

2) Allow all abilities to cast humans into water, but instead of dying humans get warped back somewhere into map (Ygdrasel)

3) Allow all abilities to cast humans over the dock ropes, but change the map include lots of ships by water so you can't cast them so easily into water (River_)

4) Reduce the height of the invisible walls on the ropes, allowing for combos where sentinel puts a human on top of a building and THEN being cast into water.
(In other words, you can't make them fall into water from the ground, you need to add some height)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0a1thowzp4...it%5D.jpg?dl=0

5) Remove the invisible walls for low health players, this way falling in water won't be an insta-kill since the human was going to die anyway (SonixSquad)

If you can't see why these ideas are silly, then you're beyond help. It's blatantly obvious. I'm not going to sit here and pander to you, only for you to pick apart my every word. I'm sorry. I think you're a great guy. I'm sure we'll agree on other things.

Raptr0s
9th Dec 2015, 00:53
I'm with Perp on this one.

Entirely unnecessary changes that were clearly not the original intentions of the devs don't need to be implemented in, especially when the support for such a change consists of a very small group, and the fact that adding this could possibly create more issues down the road that needn't be there in the first place.

However you go about this, it's a clear advantage to the vampires, which just isn't needed, especially when it's map specific.

Humans would more often than not, avoid the area entirely because of these changes, rendering them virtually pointless, save the one or two times you may catch someone off guard.

It's just... unnecessary work for little to no gain on the developers side.

Why even do it at that point?

Ygdrasel
9th Dec 2015, 01:01
Entirely unnecessary changes that were clearly not the original intentions of the devs ...

Um...The game originally did allow for Tyrants to cast humans into the water, so...

Raptr0s
9th Dec 2015, 01:16
Um...The game originally did allow for Tyrants to cast humans into the water, so...

The game isn't in a finalized state yet, and plenty of changes are to be made. Experimentation is bound to happen, especially in a beta form, and the fact that this was quickly changed implies to me that it wasn't a great idea in the first place and that the original intention was for it to be a wall, in order to keep things fair.

Regardless, until this game is fully released, nothing is truly "original" yet.

SonixSquad
9th Dec 2015, 22:21
Everyones entitled to their opinion. You are entitled to make yourself look foolish if you wish by calling things silly without explaining your logic. :rasp:



Currently, when a Vampire is near death, the human that gets the killing shot triggers the 'execution' animation.
Was this really needed? Certainly not. Does it add to the game immersion? Hell yeh.

Similarily, when a human is low on health + in a certain area (docks wateredge) and if they are killed by being thrown or knocked towards the water (invisible barrier), they could trigger a similar animation where they die a watery death.

Is this that dissimilar from what we already have with Vampire executions? No., except its limited to certain map zones (waters edge).
Are we reinventing the wheel? No

Are we adding another fun way to finish off Humans and thus contributing to the immersion without some silly invisible wall blocking what was actually previously possible? Yes.

Is this entirely necessary to the game? No not really, just like the vampire execution is not necessary, its just a fun idea that would compliment the game IMHO.

Should the devs spend more time on this than fixing bugs?
No, but they should certainly spend more time on things like this than chests.



I wasn't around when Humans could be thrown into the sea, and IMHO it was probably removed for good reason due to it being abused. But I think this would be a fun way of adding the water death back with no unbalanced consequences.

Either way thats my idea, like it or lump it and I'm done with this thread. :D

ParadoxicalOmen
10th Dec 2015, 01:00
Damn...i'm disappointed...i saw so many replies only to find out it's nothing constructive.
Just one guy being impolite...