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CountEyokir
16th Nov 2015, 22:06
Just my list of things to improve Nosgoth from both a gameplay and world building POV

1) - Armor swapping system. Give us options to how to mix and match elements from various skins. Imagine an evolved skin wearing the Turelim Platemail for example, along with alternative evolved skins to choose from. A system where we can creative our own looks for our favourite classes and become more immersed

2) - A lore tab. Put in a tab with some background videos or text explaining the Lore of Kain, the clans, the various stories on the blog. Get Simon Templeman in to voice Kain describing his Empire in a video!

3) - Horde mode. Centred in unique locations inspired by how the Tutorial was set up where you have to hold off waves of enemies, either alone or cooperatively.

4) - Hunter ability, a sticky bomb. A bomb that doesn't do too much damage upon impact but any vampire caught in its radius is slowed down.

5) Prophet ability, Augment. Channel energy into an ally to temporarily boost their damage output

6) Tyrant ability. TK blast. A short range TK shockwave that knocks anyone in front of them backward, similar to the wing flap of the Sentinel.

7) Map idea - The Human Undercity, a den of Vampire worshippers with its temple devoted to the Dark God Kain.

8) Map Idea - the Abyss. Fight on the cliffs before the swirling vortex that was Kain's favourite spot of execution.

9) Weather effects. Randomised weather effects, where its appropriate for the maps locations, can affect the battle. Rain, fog, snow, falling volcanic ash.

10) More grappling hook locations on maps for the Scout

11) A human class that can climb like the vampires, only slower, allowing it to follow injured vampires up to where they fled for safety or to allow for an excellent sniping vantage point.

12) Scout ability - Zip line. Firing a zip line allows the Scout to travel over large gaps or descend from heights that would normally mean death, safely.

13) Skin sets for beyond Evolved and Prestige for those who level up their chosen class even more. A 'DE-volved' set of skins showing the Vampires ultimate feral fate and the humans could have skins that show them battle weary, hardened, callous and bitter.

14) A Vampire class that can use an ability to grab a human long distance and then pull his victim towards him and away from the protection of his comrades.

15) Vorador. I got no other reason then I wanna see him again. Put him in a mural, stained glass, a statue - anything



PS: When is that promised Matriarch and Marked skin lore coming out? Its been weeks now. I know Leagues are SE's money maker but come on.

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 02:41
1) - Armor swapping system. Give us options to how to mix and match elements from various skins. Imagine an evolved skin wearing the Turelim Platemail for example, along with alternative evolved skins to choose from. A system where we can creative our own looks for our favourite classes and become more immersed

Man this would be nice. I always thought the evolved Turelim looked too simple (compared with the evolved Dumahim armor).
This could make them look more imposing.



2) - A lore tab. Put in a tab with some background videos or text explaining the Lore of Kain, the clans, the various stories on the blog. Get Simon Templeman in to voice Kain describing his Empire in a video!

This is a recurring idea, that i think would be greatly received. Old LoK fans would love it, and new fans would get to know more about the lore of Nosgoth...seems like a win-win. Wonder why devs don't seem to care for this...?



3) - Horde mode. Centred in unique locations inspired by how the Tutorial was set up where you have to hold off waves of enemies, either alone or cooperatively.

Ah yes pleaaaase...sometimes i get sick of the stressful PvP mode. I would love to play this with a friend.



5) Prophet ability, Augment. Channel energy into an ally to temporarily boost their damage output

This with scout...doesn't seem good. Or better, seems TOO good :D



6) Tyrant ability. TK blast. A short range TK shockwave that knocks anyone in front of them backward, similar to the wing flap of the Sentinel.

It would do essentially what "Shockwave" does, no?
Unless it does less damage, but pushes farther away or something...would love to try TK-ing humans into Freeport's water :)



8) Map Idea - the Abyss. Fight on the cliffs before the swirling vortex that was Kain's favourite spot of execution.

This would be really interesting if we had a Vamp vs Vamp mode (1v1).
Throw the loser in the abyss >:)



9) Weather effects. Randomised weather effects, where its appropriate for the maps locations, can affect the battle. Rain, fog, snow, falling volcanic ash.

Good idea, but i would put this at the bottom of the list. To be done when the game get to that polished state where we don't know what to complain about :p.



12) Scout ability - Zip line. Firing a zip line allows the Scout to travel over large gaps or descend from heights that would normally mean death, safely.

Scouts are already tough as nails to catch...plus you kinda have this with grappling hook.



15) Vorador. I got no other reason then I wanna see him again. Put him in a mural, stained glass, a statue - anything

Perhaps a map at Vorador's mansion?



PS: When is that promised Matriarch and Marked skin lore coming out? Its been weeks now. I know Leagues are SE's money maker but come on.
Keep mashing that F5 button *wink*

Vampmaster
17th Nov 2015, 10:47
I'm pretty sure the devs said that mix and match skins would be too impractical to implement given the time and budget, but that that a few small components of the skins could be swappable. I'd really like to see that sort of thing some things like heads or masks and accessories. I've used the accessory system in lightning returns as a reference to the amount of parts that can be changed.

Basically there'd be a number of marker points on the body where players could select which attachment you want. I'm sure that the main skins could toggle off certain polygons that would obstruct an attachment. So that way the whole mesh doesn't need changing, just polygons flagged as on or off.

The Tyrant skins are very samey except for the Turelim platemail and Evolved Turelim. The Tyrants desperately need more variation in their armor and especially their heads. I want to see some with hair and beards and stuff. And swappable tattoos on their backs since they don't wear much on their upper body.

Dumahim need more samurai influences like they are said to have in Soul Reaver. I get that they aren't that evolved yet, but that has little to do with what clothes they wear.

I'd love to see a Vorador memorial statue somewhere. It would make a good tribute to Paul Lukather. A dead Termogent forest would also be a good way to show that the world is dying. Perhaps the map and statue would be in the courtyard of his mansion's ruins.

lucinvampire
17th Nov 2015, 13:41
1)Armor swapping system.

YES!



2) - A lore tab.

YES YES YES YES YES!



3) - Horde mode.

YES



4) - Hunter ability, a sticky bomb.

That could be interesting



5) Prophet ability, Augment. Channel energy into an ally to temporarily boost their damage output

…hmmmmm…the PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



6) Tyrant ability.

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



7) Map idea - The Human Undercity

Yep…



8) Map Idea - the Abyss.

That would be awesome but only if you can throw people in…just because it’d be funny…seriously that was a joke, I wouldn’t want that as it would take away from Raz’s story, it would make an interesting backdrop though.



9) Weather effects.

That would be interesting…rain could be a challenge with vampires issue with water :lol: I laugh at their pain!



10) More grappling hook locations on maps for the Scout

Seriously…damn those Scouts :lol:



11) A human class that can climb like the vampires

That would take away a bit from Scouts ability though :scratch:



12) Scout ability - Zip line.

This could be really fun! Though teammates would get really annoyed with me quickly as I’d spend the entire matches going weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee across maps because it’s fun! You would regret the day you suggested this :lol:



13) Skin sets for beyond Evolved and Prestige

NICE!!!!!! :thumb:



14) A Vampire class that can use an ability to grab a human long distance and then pull his victim towards him and away from the protection of his comrades.

Zephonim spider grab :D Spiderman Spiderman does whatever a Zephonim can!



15) Vorador. I got no other reason then I wanna see him again. Put him in a mural, stained glass, a statue – anything

I don’t know if anything like murals would still exist, unless Kain or the Clans made some in memory of him :scratch: but I <3 Vor!

Passarbye
17th Nov 2015, 18:03
1) - Armor swapping system.
I honestly can't wait for them to introduce different summon skins, but this would be a nice addition as well.

2) - A lore tab. Get Simon Templeman in to voice Kain describing his Empire in a video!
This would be F-ing amazing!

3) - Horde mode.
Would be cool, but AI would need to be good for it to give you a challenge.

4) - Hunter ability, a sticky bomb.
A slight slow effect, fine. Molasses that was the alchemist's fire wall - NO.

5) Prophet ability, Augment. (dmg boost)
I don't think the humans have any problem doing damage right now. I think the problem is that humans overall do more damage than vamps, and vamps just have more CC. I think there needs to be some changes in how that works because right now if there's a vamp within 5 foot of you, you're almost guaranteed to be dead. It's sad that vamps need more teamwork than humans.

6) Tyrant ability. TK blast.
Yes, but I think the tyrant needs a global cooldown with his CC abilites because right now you can just spam them to keep humans from doing any real damage. Not fun when you're constantly knocked down or unable to defend yourself.

7) Map idea -
Any map idea is good at this point, they're all getting a bit stale with the exception of the crucible.

8) Map Idea - See #7

9) Weather effects.
Would be cool, but rain is a no-go for vamps. I can't see this being good for performance, so I'll have to say no until the game is further optimized for anything intensive.

10) More grappling hook locations on maps for the Scout
sure, i guess.

11) A human class that can climb like the vampires
Would be cool, but i'd rather see a mage. maybe the new human can do both?

12) Scout ability - Zip line.
very cool, but smart vamps could just follow or focus fire you.

13) Skin sets for beyond Evolved and Prestige
a nice idea, but I don't think the devs want to further devolve the vampires, even if for a skin. I'd like it though.

14) A Vampire class that can use an ability to grab a human long distance
Would be nice if humans could protect or at least defend themselves 1v1. I'm not talking about seeing who can kill each-other first, I mean something with actual skill involved.

15) Vorador.
Yes

"I know Leagues are SE's money maker"
I don't even know how they're making money on leagues, it's free to participate. I'm thinking server population might have something to do with that, but idk.

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 21:58
Great suggestions, hope devs read it.

CountEyokir
18th Nov 2015, 20:27
Bump for Devs to read

Really there is no excuse not to do at least the Lore tab. Its the easiest thing to add and would make a lot of people happy. Hell there are plenty of fans who would probably be glad up write up lore entries for them for free.

Ygdrasel
18th Nov 2015, 21:56
1) - Armor swapping system. Give us options to how to mix and match elements from various skins. Imagine an evolved skin wearing the Turelim Platemail for example, along with alternative evolved skins to choose from. A system where we can creative our own looks for our favourite classes and become more immersed

Often said to be impractical because of time. I don't get that. A game like Nosgoth has no deadline. Content creation goes until it can't. I bet they have no issue with time or budget when it comes to leagues and chests and all that crap. But nonetheless, the idea's been shot down. A few bits and pieces swappable ala Vanguard shield, though...Yes.


2) - A lore tab. Put in a tab with some background videos or text explaining the Lore of Kain, the clans, the various stories on the blog. Get Simon Templeman in to voice Kain describing his Empire in a video!

Does Simon Templeman even care? If he does, absolutely do this. If he doesn't, put in a Dark Chronicle.


3) - Horde mode. Centred in unique locations inspired by how the Tutorial was set up where you have to hold off waves of enemies, either alone or cooperatively.

Yes. Sanctuary of the Clans, please.


4) - Hunter ability, a sticky bomb. A bomb that doesn't do too much damage upon impact but any vampire caught in its radius is slowed down.

Eh. Glue bomb, not a fan.


5) Prophet ability, Augment. Channel energy into an ally to temporarily boost their damage output

Too tricky to balance, methinks/


6) Tyrant ability. TK blast. A short range TK shockwave that knocks anyone in front of them backward, similar to the wing flap of the Sentinel.

Like Paradox said, that's basically Shockwave. Rather than that, I would suggest ability skins that *can be purchased with gold*, so the Shockwave animation would be replaced with a TK blast, stuff like that...Unless you mean it to function differently than Shockwave, but you didn't mention.


7) Map idea - The Human Undercity, a den of Vampire worshippers with its temple devoted to the Dark God Kain.

Ooh...Yes.


8) Map Idea - the Abyss. Fight on the cliffs before the swirling vortex that was Kain's favourite spot of execution.

I have often suggested the Abyss as a map, though usually as a new game mode focused around casting vampires into the vortex for points. XD Either way, full support.


9) Weather effects. Randomised weather effects, where its appropriate for the maps locations, can affect the battle. Rain, fog, snow, falling volcanic ash.

Sounds resource intensive. Low-priority to be sure, but a neat idea.


11) A human class that can climb like the vampires, only slower, allowing it to follow injured vampires up to where they fled for safety or to allow for an excellent sniping vantage point.

Eh. Nah.


12) Scout ability - Zip line. Firing a zip line allows the Scout to travel over large gaps or descend from heights that would normally mean death, safely.

Sounds good. I like.


13) Skin sets for beyond Evolved and Prestige for those who level up their chosen class even more. A 'DE-volved' set of skins showing the Vampires ultimate feral fate and the humans could have skins that show them battle weary, hardened, callous and bitter.

A fully devolved skin is a no but something a little moreso than what we have now in the evolved skin - maybe a Turelim with larger ears, leaner legs, stockier torso...Or a Deceiver with a more extreme splitting of limbs...Sure. Absolutely. Love it.


14) A Vampire class that can use an ability to grab a human long distance and then pull his victim towards him and away from the protection of his comrades.

All I can think of is a Dumahim's crazy long tongue and YES. Maybe give the Reaver a grab ability (I'm picturing a sort of leap-snatch-backflip-away thing) and have the tongue option be one of my aforementioned 'ability skin' options.


15) Vorador. I got no other reason then I wanna see him again. Put him in a mural, stained glass, a statue - anything

I've been demanding his Mansion as a map since alpha. The Termogent swamps would have been a great place for the Rahabim to hone their water resistance...

KaininitePriestess
18th Nov 2015, 22:28
Basically Yes to Everything!!!!! Especially Simon doing voice work for the Lore in-game, the Abyss and The Undercity as maps, and randomized weather effects! I've always kind of wanted those in the game, I love weather effects in games, but I know that can be resource intensive, so it'd be best paired with an option to turn them off for people who aren't running on as good a rig as others.

Ygdrasel
19th Nov 2015, 03:22
rain could be a challenge with vampires issue with water

Kain gains immunity to rain (but not water overall) in BO1. I just presume he passed that gift to his children and so on. You notice they took all the effort to block the sun but no giant umbrellas. :p

CountEyokir
23rd Nov 2015, 09:08
*singing* I'm ...still....waiting for that lore. I'm ...still....waiting for that lore. I'm ...still....waiting for that lore - weeks after it was supposed to be uuuupppppp

RainaAudron
23rd Nov 2015, 12:52
Kain gains immunity to rain (but not water overall) in BO1. I just presume he passed that gift to his children and so on. You notice they took all the effort to block the sun but no giant umbrellas. :p

That seems to be correct. If you remember, in SR1 adult Melchahim had no trouble standing outside in the rain.

lucinvampire
23rd Nov 2015, 13:16
Kain gains immunity to rain (but not water overall) in BO1. I just presume he passed that gift to his children and so on. You notice they took all the effort to block the sun but no giant umbrellas. :p

Sorry I was just messing around...all the vampires running inside because its raining and all the humans pointing and laughing...would be funny as hell - sorry my humour gets lost sometimes.

I always wondered if there was also an age thing to it too that over time they would grow more powerful, like the immunity to the sun, or if some were and some weren't as where they didn't all receive the same dark gifts from dad, though that they all were makes logical sense...though you have to admit its not as amusing.

Gugulug5000
25th Nov 2015, 02:17
1) Would be awesome, but I doubt it will happen. I'd be content with just some skins being customizable like that though, such as the Blood Victor and Bloody Survivor skins for the Hunter and Alchemist. They could release the "naked" skin (the one without the armor; I can't remember if that's the Survivor or Victor) and then release different helmets, shoulders, greaves, and other things to add onto it.

2) Yes. I understand it's probably low priority, but it probably wouldn't require much effort. I'm not going to be upset if it takes some time to show up as long as it shows up eventually.

3) Sure, though the AI system is probably what's holding this up.

4) Meh

5) Meh

6) Yes please. I've been hoping for TK variations of Shockwave and Throw for a while now. I'd prefer they be released as new abilities, but if they are released as alternate versions of the current abilities then I'd still be happy.

7, 8) Meh, I'd rather see places like the Sanctuary of the Clans or Dumah's clan territory, but I wouldn't be opposed to those two maps.

9) Sure. I had a thought on this though, what if weather effects actually did something to a match? Like a fog play mode which obviously makes it harder for humans to take out vamps from farther away, but the fog also weakens vamps and decreases or eliminates their regeneration bonus? (Admittedly a spontaneous and not very well thought out idea).

10) Sure

11) Meh. The Scout can already do that somewhat with Grapple. I can see a class that's oriented around this being problematic (people already complain like crazy about Grapple Scouts leaving their team).

12) Meh

13) Sure, but fully devolved is probably no good for the lore. More devolved, yes, fully devolved no.

14) Sure; I like the idea of giving it to the Zephonim

15) Yes, please. A reference to Vorador would be great, though it may be hard to implement. I just can't see any of the clans really caring much for Vorador, but I'm sure there is some way to incorporate him.

Gugulug5000
25th Nov 2015, 02:42
1) Would be awesome, but I doubt it will happen. I'd be content with just some skins being customizable like that though, such as the Blood Victor and Bloody Survivor skins for the Hunter and Alchemist. They could release the "naked" skin (the one without the armor; I can't remember if that's the Survivor or Victor) and then release different helmets, shoulders, greaves, and other things to add onto it.

2) Yes. I understand it's probably low priority, but it probably wouldn't require much effort. I'm not going to be upset if it takes some time to show up as long as it shows up eventually.

3) Sure, though the AI system is probably what's holding this up.

4) Meh

5) Meh

6) Yes please. I've been hoping for TK variations of Shockwave and Throw for a while now. I'd prefer they be released as new abilities, but if they are released as alternate versions of the current abilities then I'd still be happy.

7, 8) Meh, I'd rather see places like the Sanctuary of the Clans or Dumah's clan territory, but I wouldn't be opposed to those two maps.

9) Sure. I had a thought on this though, what if weather effects actually did something to a match? Like a fog play mode which obviously makes it harder for humans to take out vamps from farther away, but the fog also weakens vamps and decreases or eliminates their regeneration bonus? (Admittedly a spontaneous and not very well thought out idea).

10) Sure

11) Meh. The Scout can already do that somewhat with Grapple. I can see a class that's oriented around this being problematic (people already complain like crazy about Grapple Scouts leaving their team).

12) Meh

13) Sure, but fully devolved is probably no good for the lore. More devolved, yes, fully devolved no.

14) Sure; I like the idea of giving it to the Zephonim

15) Yes, please. A reference to Vorador would be great.

Ygdrasel
25th Nov 2015, 06:59
*singing* I'm ...still....waiting for that lore. I'm ...still....waiting for that lore. I'm ...still....waiting for that lore - weeks after it was supposed to be uuuupppppp


Having just watched A Clockwork Orange recently, assuming this is indeed meant to be read to the tune of "Singin' In The Rain", I'm envisioning you donning a goofy Pinnochio mask and just wailing on one of the poor devs...

:lol:

snejjjj
25th Nov 2015, 07:16
1) - Armor swapping system. Give us options to how to mix and match elements from various skins. Imagine an evolved skin wearing the Turelim Platemail for example, along with alternative evolved skins to choose from. A system where we can creative our own looks for our favourite classes and become more immersed

We dont need this. Its not a MMORPG. Play Wow, Warframe, GW, D3 or sth like that.


2) - A lore tab. Put in a tab with some background videos or text explaining the Lore of Kain, the clans, the various stories on the blog. Get Simon Templeman in to voice Kain describing his Empire in a video!

Why should we need this? This isnt a Single Player. Nobody want to watch these movies or even read a text. Until now i dont even know whos Kain, but what i can say is, that i played this game more often than these Kain fanbois, with Razahim in their nicknames.


3) - Horde mode. Centred in unique locations inspired by how the Tutorial was set up where you have to hold off waves of enemies, either alone or cooperatively.

In most games, which have waves included, you will get something like better weapons to improve, and fight against later waves. In Nosgoth you will be limited. I think this will be hard to implement.


4) - Hunter ability, a sticky bomb. A bomb that doesn't do too much damage upon impact but any vampire caught in its radius is slowed down

Nobody will use it, cause its useless. Instead of new abilities, a new class can be better.


5) Prophet ability, Augment. Channel energy into an ally to temporarily boost their damage output

Sounds great, but hard to balance i think.


6) Tyrant ability. TK blast. A short range TK shockwave that knocks anyone in front of them backward, similar to the wing flap of the Sentinel.

I didnt get it. We have already a shockwave Oo


7) Map idea - The Human Undercity, a den of Vampire worshippers with its temple devoted to the Dark God Kain.

I dont know what you are talking about, but new maps are cool. They should fix bugs on the older ones first.


8) Map Idea - the Abyss. Fight on the cliffs before the swirling vortex that was Kain's favourite spot of execution.

I dont know what you are talking about, but new maps are cool. They should fix bugs on the older ones first.


9) Weather effects. Randomised weather effects, where its appropriate for the maps locations, can affect the battle. Rain, fog, snow, falling volcanic ash.

Hell no. We have massiv laags with a full inventory, and fps frops while fighting. If there will be imporved options to turn them off, it will be ok. In Nosgoth are new feature always new bugs, so i would line it up behind.


10) More grappling hook locations on maps for the Scout

Yes maybe. I dont play grappling, so i cant cmt on this.


11) A human class that can climb like the vampires, only slower, allowing it to follow injured vampires up to where they fled for safety or to allow for an excellent sniping vantage point.

It would be a useless never played class. It would have a lack in damage output to balance this ability.


12) Scout ability - Zip line. Firing a zip line allows the Scout to travel over large gaps or descend from heights that would normally mean death, safely.

A scout is, like the name says, a scout, compareable with a sniper. Hes standing still, and shooting heads. Hes not a ninja running roofs.


13) Skin sets for beyond Evolved and Prestige for those who level up their chosen class even more. A 'DE-volved' set of skins showing the Vampires ultimate feral fate and the humans could have skins that show them battle weary, hardened, callous and bitter.

Yay, more Skins. kappa


14) A Vampire class that can use an ability to grab a human long distance and then pull his victim towards him and away from the protection of his comrades.

I dont understand.


15) Vorador. I got no other reason then I wanna see him again. Put him in a mural, stained glass, a statue - anything

I dont understand.


PS: When is that promised Matriarch and Marked skin lore coming out? Its been weeks now. I know Leagues are SE's money maker but come on.

Yeah, more skin make this game better! kappa


Just my cents, with german english.

CountEyokir
25th Nov 2015, 07:29
We dont need this. Its not a MMORPG. Play Wow, Warframe, GW, D3 or sth like that.

Classes would be the same in abilities but having a personalised class would improve immersion


Why should we need this? This isnt a Single Player. Nobody want to watch these movies or even read a text. Until now i dont even know whos Kain, but what i can say is, that i played this game more often than these Kain fanbois, with Razahim in their nicknames.

Well that's your problem and the fact you don't know the backstory to this franchise reflects poorly on Nosgoth itself which was marketed to the fans of the series as a means to bring in new fans but so far has done little to nothing to practical do so. And this not being an Single player game in utterly NO WAY relieves it of the responsibility to be true to the franchises complex and deep mythology and lore, in fact it only increases that responsibility. The about of new players in Nosgoth who couldn't care about the story and in fact get violent and anger whenever someone tries to tell them (I've had this happen to me more then one) shows that something has gone horribly wrong.


In most games, which have waves included, you will get something like better weapons to improve, and fight against later waves. In Nosgoth you will be limited. I think this will be hard to implement.

Just have some regenerating health mechanic or reduced HP on NPCS. Done.




Nobody will use it, cause its useless. Instead of new abilities, a new class can be better.

Yes, the Rahabim finally - but I'd use such an ability for sure



I dont understand.


A Vampire with the ability to grab a human from a distance and pull him closer



I dont understand.

Vorador is an ancient Vampire from the series with a distinctive look and personality

http://ru.legadodekain.net/images/enciclopedia/vorador/vorador.jpeg

Ygdrasel
25th Nov 2015, 09:14
Why should we need this? This isnt a Single Player. Nobody want to watch these movies or even read a text. Until now i dont even know whos Kain, but what i can say is, that i played this game more often than these Kain fanbois, with Razahim in their nicknames.

German English and a massive dollop of arrogance, apparently. "Nobody want to watch or read..." - Yeah, that's why this is constantly suggested and/or supported by half the forum regulars. Nobody indeed. :rolleyes:

Half your responses (or more) are "WHAT IS THAT" and it sickens me.
This game has failed to live up to its promises in regard to the series and it has a duty to fix this failure.

You've played the game more often? Not surprising. The game fails to entice the "Kain fanbois" (It's 'fanboys'), so they play less, and this is exactly why we want and need this. It's our series, not yours, and we ought to be considered in this game's future features so long as it claims to be connected to that series.
(And if that sounds entitled or arrogant - It is unashamedly both of these things.)


And a scout, by name, implies a reconnaissance agent - tactical surveying and/or military infiltration - far more than it implies a sniper. A zipline would serve very well for reconnaissance purposes.

Vampmaster
25th Nov 2015, 10:58
@snejjjj It's a huge generalisation to say that everyone who came here for competitive gameplay either hates or doesn't care about the story. Plenty of people are likely to enjoy both, those who hate it, don't have to read it and if the lore brings in more players, the gameplay would get better because the MMR needs a large playerbase to work properly. It's not like there's be an hour long cutscene before every match.

snejjjj
25th Nov 2015, 12:14
The problem is the following: Imo Psy is not repairing/fixing/balancing competitiv play nor adding story-things for singleplayer guys..... or not fast enough. http://steamcharts.com/app/200110 shouldnt be "its okay" for the dev. If i am a game studio, i would like to see me in top50 or maybe top100. Nosgoth is behind 200.

Vampmaster
25th Nov 2015, 12:38
The problem is the following: Imo Psy is not repairing/fixing/balancing competitiv play nor adding story-things for singleplayer guys..... or not fast enough. http://steamcharts.com/app/200110 shouldnt be "its okay" for the dev. If i am a game studio, i would like to see me in top50 or maybe top100. Nosgoth is behind 200.

The developers have said that they want to get the game into a better state before they start promoting it heavily, but you're right about how slow development has been. The think is it's tough to balance keeping the current playerbase from losing interest at the same time as fixing bugs and working on the really big features that are very far apart.

Ygdrasel
26th Nov 2015, 01:51
The problem is the following: Imo Psy is not repairing/fixing/balancing competitiv play nor adding story-things for singleplayer guys

And therein lies the failure in all this - a failure that belongs to Square Enix, not Psyonix: They tried to use the branding of a high-standard story-rich series to push an unrecognized multiplayer arena game, trying to grab two entirely different types of players and floundering a fair bit on both sides. And all this after canceling one sequel that people actually wanted and trying to bastardize the series with that second sequel attempt (which was cancelled to applause), thereby already killing much of the fanbase's good will before Nosgoth ever even established itself.

Nosgoth's existence frankly makes no kind of sense at all but Squeenix seems to think it a grand idea and Psyonix has to make the best of it. And they've certainly been trying but as the bleeding player numbers will tell, it's just not going great. I expect things will pick up once the game's in a stable state and gets some marketing out there - but it seriously couldn't slow progress that much to just migrate lore from the blog into an in-game text menu, could it? If anything, it might spark more interest.

CountEyokir
26th Nov 2015, 08:17
And therein lies the failure in all this - a failure that belongs to Square Enix, not Psyonix: They tried to use the branding of a high-standard story-rich series to push an unrecognized multiplayer arena game, trying to grab two entirely different types of players and floundering a fair bit on both sides. And all this after canceling one sequel that people actually wanted and trying to bastardize the series with that second sequel attempt (which was cancelled to applause), thereby already killing much of the fanbase's good will before Nosgoth ever even established itself.

THANK GOD DEAD SUN CRASHED AND BURNED!


Nosgoth's existence frankly makes no kind of sense at all but Squeenix seems to think it a grand idea and Psyonix has to make the best of it. And they've certainly been trying but as the bleeding player numbers will tell, it's just not going great. I expect things will pick up once the game's in a stable state and gets some marketing out there - but it seriously couldn't slow progress that much to just migrate lore from the blog into an in-game text menu, could it? If anything, it might spark more interest.

Yes unfortunately I kinda have to agree. Nosgoth ought to be providing more for the fans of the series. THAT should be its priority. This game is never ..ever...EVER going to attract hordes of players of just standard multiplayer games. Their focus NEEDS BADLY to be on a creating a multiplayer game exclusively for our audience, because courting us would provide them with more long term money from a dedicated fanbase which appreciated their efforts. But that's not how AAA game companies think anymore. They think they have to make everything as wide and bland as possible to 'broaden the audience' - WHICH NEVER EVER EVER WORKS

ParadoxicalOmen
26th Nov 2015, 12:45
THANK GOD DEAD SUN CRASHED AND BURNED!


Yes, i hated what i saw of Dead Sun. It was nothing like the other LoK games, it seemed like a hack 'n' slash game with some adventure elements. I wanted something similar to BO1 and SR1.
The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.

lucinvampire
26th Nov 2015, 13:02
The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.

Yeah, I agree it probably would have been a nice game to play if it was nothing to do with LoK...as it just bombed the series lore, so yeah should of made a new IP as you said!...I probably would have got it then. heh

Ygdrasel
26th Nov 2015, 23:18
Yes, i hated what i saw of Dead Sun. It was nothing like the other LoK games, it seemed like a hack 'n' slash game with some adventure elements. I wanted something similar to BO1 and SR1.
The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.


I think it would have made a fine LoK sequel, or at least spinoff - after some considerable changes and consultant work. The basic idea was sound - set in a far-flung era (same as SR did in regard to BO), some kind of vengeance tale.
It was the details that botched it. No Kain, a Raziel rip-off, lazy callbacks rather than new ideas, soul-reaving replaced by orb collection, the spectral realm being a time travel mechanic and all around incorrect...

It was a few good ideas piled on with heaps of garbage. Though I didn't hate Gein for the shifting ability - yes, that was Raziel's thing but others have done it - but more the lame explanation of it. With it allegedly delving into the EG's background, I'd have just set it in some far era of the past (Ancient/Hylden still alive, super far back) and had Gein (with some redesign, maybe make him an Ancient himself) be one of the EG's direct agents - turned rogue at some point (hence the vengeance element) and eventually turned into a mindless Archon or some other ill fate. Get some EG background and some Ancient/Hylden war background, see how their societies actually functioned before both went to pot. Not a continuation but a spinoff affair.


@Eyokir: I don't think that's what's happening with Nosgoth. I think SE just doesn't actually believe the LoK fanbase specifically is worth courting. I mean, they canned two sequels well into production, clearly there's a mindset of it just being too worthless to even finish a single **** project. Weren't DP and DS just about completed, yet somehow all those resources poured in are fine to throw away rather than risk a weak sale.

As to Nosgoth's blandness, I'd say it's less "appeal to everyone" and more "forget appealing to LoK fans, no profit there, just make what we can off the general audience". Nosgoth isn't a real game. It's a last-ditch effort to mitigate losses.

And the worst of it is that Psyonix actually seems to care about the material to at least some degree - but as noted, SE shows no signs of that care. If Psyonix had SE's size and money without SE's miserable boot over them, it'd probably be amazing. Hey, we'd probably have our sixth game in that scenario.

KaininitePriestess
26th Nov 2015, 23:31
Stuff

/S l o w blink/ :mad: ...JSYK, Us "Kain Fan-people" put in quite a fair amount of hours into this game, too. I've logged close to 800 hours and my name is a direct reference to a cult that worshiped Kain amongst the humans. So the people you insulted and implied aren't worth considering do care about what's going on, and we're not exactly quiet about it.

ParadoxicalOmen
27th Nov 2015, 00:35
Yeah, I agree it probably would have been a nice game to play if it was nothing to do with LoK...as it just bombed the series lore, so yeah should of made a new IP as you said!...I probably would have got it then. heh
Yup, it could have been the next DMC...but sadly, they wanted it to be a LoK sequel.



It was the details that botched it. No Kain, a Raziel rip-off, lazy callbacks rather than new ideas, soul-reaving replaced by orb collection, the spectral realm being a time travel mechanic and all around incorrect...

It was a few good ideas piled on with heaps of garbage. Though I didn't hate Gein for the shifting ability - yes, that was Raziel's thing but others have done it - but more the lame explanation of it. With it allegedly delving into the EG's background, I'd have just set it in some far era of the past (Ancient/Hylden still alive, super far back) and had Gein (with some redesign, maybe make him an Ancient himself) be one of the EG's direct agents - turned rogue at some point (hence the vengeance element) and eventually turned into a mindless Archon or some other ill fate. Get some EG background and some Ancient/Hylden war background, see how their societies actually functioned before both went to pot. Not a continuation but a spinoff affair.


You're not helping me like it more xD
So far you only helped me notice more of it's flaws.
But i'll admit this...since much of the plot wasn't reveal, there could have been some interesting twists. I don't believe that there would be no Kain (else it would be stupid calling it "Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun").


@KaininitePriestess
Pay no attention to the fledgling :p

Ygdrasel
27th Nov 2015, 07:47
Yup, it could have been the next DMC...but sadly, they wanted it to be a LoK sequel.



You're not helping me like it more xD
So far you only helped me notice more of it's flaws.

Oh, it was a flawed pile to be sure.
But most of that pile was story.
Gameplay wasn't half-bad, botched spectral realm and dumb orb collection aside. Limited parkour would be fitting enough for the more agile denizens of Nosgoth (the Zephonim, well, they did TRY back on PS1...And some still suggest this for the Deceiver or vamps in general) and the free-flow combat was a decent change from the usual (though arguably too changed - it lost much of its hacky-slash quality for the sake of that flow).

Just...Oi, the story. "We were too intimidated by the complexity so we threw it all out, then just couldn't be bothered!" - Way. To. Go. Climax.

And yeah, Kain would've had to appear eventually but how do you put together any sort of footage or teaser of a new LoK game without an ounce of Kain in it? XD

But whatever, it died proper. Point is, Dark Prophecy was by all evidence a good sequel and still died so I just doubt SE can really be bothered anymore with the actual series or fans. XP Eyokir's right about the audience problem though. Nosgoth will never be some grand esports mainstay. They would do well to focus on the series fans and cater accordingly - though even that will fail if SE's stupid greed wins out.

On the matter of an Abyss map - would this be the locale as see in SR1 or some earlier version maybe before the land crumbled away so much? I mean, it couldn't just be the central bit Raziel got thrown from, yeah? If so, there's the water close on all sides, vampire players would rage at such a thing...

KaininitePriestess
27th Nov 2015, 08:15
@KaininitePriestess
Pay no attention to the fledgling :p

I will do my best! Must not let the young pups and their unwarranted bravado get under our skin! :p


And yeah, Kain would've had to appear eventually but how do you put together any sort of footage or teaser of a new LoK game without an ounce of Kain in it? XD

From what I remember reading, the devs for DS stated that it was set some thousands of years after Kain was dead and gone and no longer an acting influence in the world, so he wouldn't be appearing in the game. Though there's no way to tell at this point if they wouldn't have said that initially and then had him show up toward the end in a "What a tweest!" moment or something. :/ It was still another reason why I wanted nothing to do with DS as a LoK game.

Lord_Aevum
27th Nov 2015, 08:28
Yes, i hated what i saw of Dead Sun. It was nothing like the other LoK games, it seemed like a hack 'n' slash game with some adventure elements. I wanted something similar to BO1 and SR1.
The game should have been a new IP, it looked nice but not as a LoK sequel.

It wouldn't have even been greenlit in the first place if they pitched it as a new IP. ;) Which was likely half the problem, there.

CountEyokir
27th Nov 2015, 08:32
Right time for me to render this all moot and point out that in Dead Sun's backstory - Kain is quite dead. The developers of this game had NO respect for the franchise story whatsoever

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=185202062

KaininitePriestess
27th Nov 2015, 08:43
Right time for me to render this all moot and point out that in Dead Sun's backstory - Kain is quite dead. The developers of this game had NO respect for the franchise story whatsoever

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=185202062

Yeah, this was one of the reasons I had a bit of rage over the game when I first read about it, and over the director's statements regarding the franchise and the lore. I'm so glad that it didn't get off the ground. :mad:

CountEyokir
27th Nov 2015, 10:42
Oh, it was a flawed pile to be sure.
But most of that pile was story.
Gameplay wasn't half-bad, botched spectral realm and dumb orb collection aside. Limited parkour would be fitting enough for the more agile denizens of Nosgoth (the Zephonim, well, they did TRY back on PS1...And some still suggest this for the Deceiver or vamps in general) and the free-flow combat was a decent change from the usual (though arguably too changed - it lost much of its hacky-slash quality for the sake of that flow).

Just...Oi, the story. "We were too intimidated by the complexity so we threw it all out, then just couldn't be bothered!" - Way. To. Go. Climax.

And yeah, Kain would've had to appear eventually but how do you put together any sort of footage or teaser of a new LoK game without an ounce of Kain in it? XD

But whatever, it died proper. Point is, Dark Prophecy was by all evidence a good sequel and still died so I just doubt SE can really be bothered anymore with the actual series or fans. XP Eyokir's right about the audience problem though. Nosgoth will never be some grand esports mainstay. They would do well to focus on the series fans and cater accordingly - though even that will fail if SE's stupid greed wins out.

Yes I've been getting that impression a lot, especially considering it was SE who told Climax studios to make Dead Sun as removed from the actual story of LoK as possible. When foolish, counterproductive decisions like this are made for games it can be traced about 95% of the time to some idiot in upper management. This is why Pysonix has my admiration and sympathies for having to put up with Triple A nonsense, an industry which is so disconnected from what make good games these days that they risk destroying their own industry. Pysonix developers - thank you for putting some life into at least the clans of Kain's Empire pre devolution. I'm especially fond of the Tyrants. And as for the Square Enix people who make these bad decisions, you can go (the end of this sentance has been censored for reasons of decency and good taste)

But back to suggestions. Yes, the biggest and most EASY for them to do is a Lore Tab. There is utterly NO EXCUSE FOR NOT DOING IT. There are fans right here in this very thread, myself included, who would be willing to help do this for the game, write up text and design the format, FOR FREE. If you wanted to be really lazy you could copy and past from the Legacy of Kain wiki. Add in some turnable models of things for added interactivity, especially that Raziel statue and we're good. Its the very least that can be done really and would mean a lot to the LoK fanbase.

Vampmaster
27th Nov 2015, 11:11
Personally, I'd want the devs to:

December:
1) Keep writing the lore blogs (we're due one from last month)
2) Finish the voice free chat, since that's already started.
3) Finish the prestige skins because they've been coming soon all year.
January:
4) Finish the forge features (all stats customisable and upgradable to mysterious) that were announced and then "didn't make it in time for the patch".
Early 2016:
5) Finish the new map.
6) Get the Rahabim class added.

The lore tab could go somewhere between 4, 5 and 6, depending on how much they want to include. For example, if they had an interactive map where yo could click on locations to read about events there and who owns it and look at that area's concept art, that would make into a bigger feature and would need more time.

ParadoxicalOmen
27th Nov 2015, 18:00
1) Keep writing the lore blogs (we're due one from last month)

True, but i prefer they take their time than they rush it and we get a crappy story.



2) Finish the voice free chat, since that's already started.

More team coordination, fo shizzle.



3) Finish the prestige skins because they've been coming soon all year.

They probably are re-doing them due to criticism...mostly towards the Prophet one (although personally i'd like for them to change the elite Vang helmet also)



4) Finish the forge features (all stats customisable and upgradable to mysterious) that were announced and then "didn't make it in time for the patch".

And include forging to exotic weapons; and not forget to implement some form of REMOVE enchantment.



5) Finish the new map.

Cheers



6) Get the Rahabim class added.

Cheers, although personally i'd prioritize new abilities than new class



The lore tab could go somewhere between 4, 5 and 6, depending on how much they want to include. For example, if they had an interactive map where yo could click on locations to read about events there and who owns it and look at that area's concept art, that would make into a bigger feature and would need more time.

Sounds wonderful :worship:

Vampmaster
28th Nov 2015, 23:09
@ParadoxicalOmen, I'm going to have to disagree on the Vanguard Helmet and Rahabim. The helmet is just personal preference and since it didn't get many complaints compared with the Prophet skin, I don't think it's worth delaying the skin even longer than it has been. With the Rahabim, putting more abilities ahead of it would mean it akes even longer to complete, because it would then need a lot more abilities itself to start with. I'm getting concerned that the Rahabim might get pushed back so far that Kain's 4th son might remain unrepresented. Any classes after that are just gravey and should absolutely be lowest priority.

CountEyokir
29th Nov 2015, 19:12
More proposals - (based of the New Lore Blog entry)

Freeport alterations - Based on the Lore blog, Freeport had many shrines dedicated to various human gods. Freeport needs an update to reflect this, perhaps with small statues depicting deified versions of various Members of the Circle of Nine?


Human vs human horde mode - Imagine this. You alone, or with a group, have to fend off various waves of human Vampire worshippers in the dark depths of a temple devoted to the Vampires god - Kain.

Vampire Worshiper Mode - Someone on the human team is a traitor. Tasked with sabotaging their efforts, a specific mission to carry out without their comrades noticing. Once discovered and seen, he becomes fair game to kill.

Ygdrasel
29th Nov 2015, 20:46
More proposals - (based of the New Lore Blog entry)

Freeport alterations - Based on the Lore blog, Freeport had many shrines dedicated to various human gods. Freeport needs an update to reflect this, perhaps with small statues depicting deified versions of various Members of the Circle of Nine?


Human vs human horde mode - Imagine this. You alone, or with a group, have to fend off various waves of human Vampire worshippers in the dark depths of a temple devoted to the Vampires god - Kain.

Vampire Worshiper Mode - Someone on the human team is a traitor. Tasked with sabotaging their efforts, a specific mission to carry out without their comrades noticing. Once discovered and seen, he becomes fair game to kill.

That last one is basically Trouble In Terrorist Town and YES. I'd daresay that deserves its own thread. Those modes are always good fun.

Freeport alterations, absolutely. Suggested it myself right in the lore announcement thread. XD

And perhaps for the horde wave mode, there could be an objective attached - say, rescuing a captive (who, being one of the Stockholm Syndrome types, is constantly fleeing back to the 'home' of their cage while not guided by rescuers).

ParadoxicalOmen
1st Dec 2015, 01:02
@ParadoxicalOmen, I'm going to have to disagree on the Vanguard Helmet and Rahabim. The helmet is just personal preference and since it didn't get many complaints compared with the Prophet skin, I don't think it's worth delaying the skin even longer than it has been. With the Rahabim, putting more abilities ahead of it would mean it akes even longer to complete, because it would then need a lot more abilities itself to start with. I'm getting concerned that the Rahabim might get pushed back so far that Kain's 4th son might remain unrepresented. Any classes after that are just gravey and should absolutely be lowest priority.

About the Vang, yeah i know...it's just my feeling (cause he looks like a bull :p)

And about the Rahabim, it's just that i don't want many classes if it means no variety. I loved it when they released the Summoner and Vanguard, but it sucked that we only had 1 loadout almost...no variety, predictable, etc...



Freeport alterations - Based on the Lore blog, Freeport had many shrines dedicated to various human gods. Freeport needs an update to reflect this, perhaps with small statues depicting deified versions of various Members of the Circle of Nine?

I thought of the same thing when reading the post..agreed.



Human vs human horde mode - Imagine this. You alone, or with a group, have to fend off various waves of human Vampire worshippers in the dark depths of a temple devoted to the Vampires god - Kain.

I'd love a human vs human mode (PvP or AI, either would be nice)...also a Vamp v Vamp would be welcome too!



Vampire Worshiper Mode - Someone on the human team is a traitor. Tasked with sabotaging their efforts, a specific mission to carry out without their comrades noticing. Once discovered and seen, he becomes fair game to kill.

This would be a really good theme for the human vs human mode...mix this with the hoard idea:
Play coop as humans and defeat incoming waves of vampire worshipers :)