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Ygdrasel
13th Nov 2015, 06:25
*Added a revised version of this suggestion to the end of the post.


(Mods, feel free to merge this with the 'New human class' thread (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=165904) at your discretion.)

The basic (or 'primordial' because it sounds much cooler) elements recognized in the land of Nosgoth are Darkness (governing Earth and Water), and Light (governing Air and Fire). Perhaps a magic user class could harness these elements then for battle. It'd enable at least two options per loadout slot, possibly more.

Darkness and Light would take the RMB slot. Light could be a blinding AoE. Dark, also AoE, would cloak the self and/or allies with invisibility (not total, mind).

The F slot, more defense-oriented, would hold the Earth and Air elements. Earth could be a single-target/AoE attack that deals knockdown or stagger. Air could operate akin to a Sentinel's wing flap, maybe with more range, or something like a blast of air centered around the user that pushes back any caught in the radius - not damaging, but it gives some breathing room (pardon the pun).

The Q slot, more offensive, would hold the Water and Fire elements. Water could drench the targets in an AoE, dealing damage over time. Fire could be a spell cast upon the user (or a single ally at a time), igniting them with a magical fire that would leave them unharmed while damaging any vampire who strikes them (and/or boosting damage when they strike vampires).

Its weapon would be some manner of talisman (say some kind of inscribed orb or tome) that floats between the upheld hands (http://apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1429059079139/space_mage_by_axl99-d6ru3ej.jpg). (The previous is a clickable image link.)

Visually, I thought maybe something ala the fire mages in Blood Omen with the hoods, but obviously more detailed, maybe some varying decoration or runes on the clothing for varied skins. Maybe different cloak or hood styles:

http://gamehall.uol.com.br/meialua/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mage.jpg



Specialized Variant (Each element comprises a full potential loadout):

Darkness
Talisman: A small ornate mirror obscured by shifting dark clouds. (http://sobermomwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/mirror.png)
RMB: Netherspawn. Spawns a Shade (perhaps borrowing the Slayer model but shrouded in black fog with purple eyes) to fight the enemy.
Q: Shadow Bolt. Single-target attack, blinds the target.
F: Obscurant Shroud. Casts temporary invisibility over the user.


Earth
Talisman: A rhombus-shaped talisman, reflective golden-brown in color with flecks of dirt surrounding.
RMB: Earthquake. AoE, staggers all targets.
Q: Gravel Strike. Single-target. Unleashes a bolt of heavy stone to knockdown the enemy.
F: Earthen Armor. Forms armor of magically hardened stone and dirt around the user for a temporary defense buff.


Water
Talisman: A disc stylized with abyss/whirlpool imagery.
RMB: Drowning Wave. AoE radial wave, soaks all targets for damage over time.
Q: Glacial Trap. Casts a magic bolt that traps the enemy's feet in ice. Temporary stun.
F: Vapor Cloak. Conjures water vapor to drench the user, damaging vampires who make contact (via delivering or receiving melee).


Light
Talisman: Sun Disk, emits a faint glow (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Disk)
RMB: Torrential Sunlight. Single-target. Powerful blast of light energy.
Q: Blinding Rays. Blinding AoE.
F: Protector's Light. Infuses the user with light energy, causing them to emit a bright glow and be untouchable for the duration.


Air
Talisman: Flat disc resembling the air plinths from SR2 (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Air_plinths).
RMB: Vortex. Conjures a powerful radial AoE gust to repel targets, ala Bulwark. (Won't deflect kidnap and stuff though.)
Q: Chafing Winds. Directs a damaging wind at a single target.
F: Deflective Gust. Halts an enemy and/or incoming projectiles (bombs, bolts...) with a strong air blast.


Fire
Talisman: Reddish orb inundated in fire, similar to original talisman pic.
RMB: Ring of Fire. AoE fire wave.
Q: Scorching Stream. DoT fire torrent toward a single target.
F: Flame Shield. Casts magical fire over an ally inflicting greater damage to their attacks and damaging vampires on contact.

Regular attacks (ala Prophet gunshots or Alch cannon) would be a sustained offensive stream of elemental energy.
Melee could be just a single tiny flicker-bolt of the same.

Raptr0s
13th Nov 2015, 07:17
I'd love to see some sort of Mage class in Nosgoth, it'd be beyond fun casting all kinds of spells.

I'd also be interested in seeing the Glyph magic being used at some point.

Very interesting idea though, it'd make for a refreshing human class.

ParadoxicalOmen
13th Nov 2015, 22:18
Damn this is a fantastic idea, in terms of not limiting a mage class to a single element.

Want fire magic? No prob, fire talisman...prefer lightning? No problemo, lightning talisman :)

It does feel wierd for a mage to have many elements as you suggested though...because enemies in general (including the pillar guardians) seemed limited to 1 area/type of magic.
Although this isn't very restrictive, since Kain was able to learn many forms of magic...

@Raptros
Glyph magic sounds cool, but i think this is may be only used by the Hylden.

Vampmaster
13th Nov 2015, 22:46
Damn this is a fantastic idea, in terms of not limiting a mage class to a single element.

Want fire magic? No prob, fire talisman...prefer lightning? No problemo, lightning talisman :)

It does feel wierd for a mage to have many elements as you suggested though...because enemies in general (including the pillar guardians) seemed limited to 1 area/type of magic.
Although this isn't very restrictive, since Kain was able to learn many forms of magic...

@Raptros
Glyph magic sounds cool, but i think this is may be only used by the Hylden.

But the humans aren't technologically advanced enough to to build a tiny disk that can control the flow of heat and oxygen like that or create water atoms from nothing.

Seriously, how's a magic talisman any more believable than a magic septor? There's literally no difference except that he gets to use bare hands.

@Ygdrasel, not criticising your idea. Just pointing out the double standard that sound apparantly needs technology, but fire and water do not. They were all types of Elemental Law that Raziel had in SR1.

ParadoxicalOmen
14th Nov 2015, 14:17
But the humans aren't technologically advanced enough to to build a tiny disk that can control the flow of heat and oxygen like that or create water atoms from nothing.

Seriously, how's a magic talisman any more believable than a magic septor? There's literally no difference except that he gets to use bare hands.

@Ygdrasel, not criticising your idea. Just pointing out the double standard that sound apparantly needs technology, but fire and water do not. They were all types of Elemental Law that Raziel had in SR1.

It's very different, your sound weapon is not magical at all...It would require tecnology that i personally believe the humans of Nosgoth haven't reached yet. But this is my opinion, if the devs like it and decide to implement it...wonderful.

The talisman idea is purely magical, it is an object imbued with elemental power through magic or whatever...you can't compare the two.

Vampmaster
14th Nov 2015, 14:44
It's very different, your sound weapon is not magical at all...It would require tecnology that i personally believe the humans of Nosgoth haven't reached yet. But this is my opinion, if the devs like it and decide to implement it...wonderful.

The talisman idea is purely magical, it is an object imbued with elemental power through magic or whatever...you can't compare the two.

Oh, take it easy. It wasn't a personal attack on you. I was only trying illustrate a point that anything you can do with technology you can do with magic. Since magic is fictional, there aren't any documented rules about what it can or can't do. The only difference is that would need to be taken into account when designing abilities for a game is the aesthetics of it.

Apologies again to Ygdrasil.

ParadoxicalOmen
15th Nov 2015, 16:28
Oh, take it easy. It wasn't a personal attack on you. I was only trying illustrate a point that anything you can do with technology you can do with magic. Since magic is fictional, there aren't any documented rules about what it can or can't do. The only difference is that would need to be taken into account when designing abilities for a game is the aesthetics of it.

Apologies again to Ygdrasil.

I understand your point...you just don't get that i don't agree. I won't pollute this thread further with discussions unrelated to this thread (i have replied you in the corresponding thread).

GenFeelGood
15th Nov 2015, 23:44
Be it through talismans, ritual tattoos, or scepters, so long as it deals out magic in a variety of spread patterns I'll be happy.

What is dealt for base attack is bit tricky. I've recently come to understand that different elements for each attack variant might not be possible, keeping it simple from design stand point, so best bet to choose one and expand it.

*Fire is already used by the Alchemist, so that might not be an option
*Electricity has always been valid choice, great potential for chain attacks with it jumping from one target to another
*Sounds is also good, from focused concussive projectiles for long range to wide blasts for up close and personal
*Water would be cool, blasts of high pressure liquid water for close range and spears of ice for down range action
*Earth would be gritty, sand blasts that strip flesh for those foolish enough to go in for the kill to cannon balls of rock for ranged artillery

Heretic_13
16th Nov 2015, 13:38
Oh, take it easy. It wasn't a personal attack on you. I was only trying illustrate a point that anything you can do with technology you can do with magic. Since magic is fictional, there aren't any documented rules about what it can or can't do. The only difference is that would need to be taken into account when designing abilities for a game is the aesthetics of it.

I am with Vampmaster on that one- sound could be used magical force as well as other elements. So even if i thing "magical tuning fork" is ridicolous, i do want to point out we in "New Human Class" and here talking about new class that is not able to take much abuse, yet is pretty powerfull. In other words- Mage. I am all up for sounds, light and elemental spells.
But i ask again- what will be his weapon? In other words, what will he/she be whacking vampires with from up close?

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 02:23
Be it through talismans, ritual tattoos, or scepters, so long as it deals out magic in a variety of spread patterns I'll be happy.

What is dealt for base attack is bit tricky. I've recently come to understand that different elements for each attack variant might not be possible, keeping it simple from design stand point, so best bet to choose one and expand it.

*Fire is already used by the Alchemist, so that might not be an option
*Electricity has always been valid choice, great potential for chain attacks with it jumping from one target to another
*Sounds is also good, from focused concussive projectiles for long range to wide blasts for up close and personal
*Water would be cool, blasts of high pressure liquid water for close range and spears of ice for down range action
*Earth would be gritty, sand blasts that strip flesh for those foolish enough to go in for the kill to cannon balls of rock for ranged artillery

Although it seems each class is unique. Vanguard* being wind (so far), Alchemist being fire, Prophet is Black blood magic, etc. I don't think this should be restrictive.

*obs: Since they are drowning men, this made me expect a water ability from them...although this might be taking their name to literally.

Personally i would like that this mage class could be able to use all elements, BUT only one element per loadout. What i mean is, you would, for example, equip a talisman of a certain element. I prefer the idea that mages are specialized, so they master one element.
So, depending on your loadout you could be a fire-mage, water-mage, sound-mage and so forth...

GenFeelGood
17th Nov 2015, 06:17
Although it seems each class is unique. Vanguard* being wind (so far), Alchemist being fire, Prophet is Black blood magic, etc. I don't think this should be restrictive.

*obs: Since they are drowning men, this made me expect a water ability from them...although this might be taking their name to literally.

It wouldn't be a problem if they used the same element for more than I class, for me anyway. I just think the devs would be likely to avoid it.



Personally i would like that this mage class could be able to use all elements, BUT only one element per loadout. What i mean is, you would, for example, equip a talisman of a certain element. I prefer the idea that mages are specialized, so they master one element.
So, depending on your loadout you could be a fire-mage, water-mage, sound-mage and so forth...

This is ideally what I would want for the mage class as well. It is what I've wanted for my Glyph Disciple concept since I worked it out back in alpha, a different element for each weapon variant; and each element offering a different contrast of spread vs range when it comes to dealing damage. I just think it will be a bit of a miracle if that is what we get.

Heretic_13
17th Nov 2015, 07:31
I just thought of melee attack for mage- if he uses amulets-instead of whacking vampire with weapon, he "touches" vampire with his hands, imbuded with wathever element he has equpied- for example flaming hands

Vampmaster
17th Nov 2015, 08:14
Another reason I suggested sound was that I thought using the elements from SR1 would offer a bit of a change from the other classes. Most of the Alchemists abilities (including standard attacks) are fire based an there have been complications with using water based abilities in that some people thought it looked too silly (I'm not one if them) and the potential need fir the Rahabim to be immune to it.

Theming the class around Elemental Law, which is the real name for the spells in SR1, provides a few alternatives. That's what made me think of sound. It includes Force, Sunlight and Stone as others as well. Admittedly, Stone is similar to Earth, but hit exactly in terms of how it could look. The Elemental Law makes a bit of a change from the traditional four elements as well.

Light, Sound and Lightning also work for an Energist class as they are also forms of energy. If they want to have an elementalist and an energist as two separate classes, the devs might want to keep the types of magic separated, but then again it's taking a very long time to get these next two out.

They could go another direction and use weather based elements. Rain, Lightning, Sunlight and Earthquakes for example. Lightning and Sunlight could be the ranged standard attacks and Earthquakes and Rain could be AoE.

Passarbye
17th Nov 2015, 18:13
I don't care what the next human class is, just as long as they can use some sort of attack with sound. I really want to see the sound 'element' be used for something, it was my favorite among the SR1 spells. Just something that uses harmonizing notes for attacking, maybe if you used certain notes at certain times (or after other notes, in succession) you would get a chain going that boosts attack speed or damage/accuracy? just a thought.

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 21:54
I don't care what the next human class is, just as long as they can use some sort of attack with sound. I really want to see the sound 'element' be used for something, it was my favorite among the SR1 spells. Just something that uses harmonizing notes for attacking, maybe if you used certain notes at certain times (or after other notes, in succession) you would get a chain going that boosts attack speed or damage/accuracy? just a thought.

It's so underused also...only used in SR1. Would be nice to revive that part of LoK (using sound against vampires).

Whatever the devs chose is fine by me, but personally i'd like to have sound as an environmental weapon. Like having humans able to activate a bell or something (this would probably fit better in a new mode than TDM though)

Ygdrasel
19th Nov 2015, 03:31
Damn this is a fantastic idea, in terms of not limiting a mage class to a single element.

Want fire magic? No prob, fire talisman...prefer lightning? No problemo, lightning talisman :)

It does feel wierd for a mage to have many elements as you suggested though...because enemies in general (including the pillar guardians) seemed limited to 1 area/type of magic.
Although this isn't very restrictive, since Kain was able to learn many forms of magic...

@Raptros
Glyph magic sounds cool, but i think this is may be only used by the Hylden.

Raziel used glyph magic. Though his glyphs may be unrelated to the Hylden glyph energy, I've always interpreted it as the same thing. The Hylden just converted it into a more pure, generalized form to use as power for their cities and such. To use a simple analogy: Raziel's glyph spells were batteries, electricity contained in a given form, while the Hylden just harnessed the pure electricity.

And a mage having all these elements would be very odd - if he'd mastered them all, as a specializing mage might. This is more a mage that's dabbled in everything but mastered none which is why he wields them all at once with limited effect (only one ability per element) rather than have a full ability set per element. Though that is certainly an interesting idea...I'm gonna see what I can put together with that. Added a specializing variant to the OP. (Another option could be to have full loadout options per element but let the individual options be mixed-and-matched. So he's got darkness in the RMB slot, earth in the Q slot, water in F, for example.)

And as for Heretic's question: I don't use melee much so it never even occurred to me how that'd work. Maybe he'd telekinetically bash them with the talisman or something.

GenFeelGood
19th Nov 2015, 05:08
I'm still a big fan of ritual tattoos as the "weapon" for the magic class, like Scar from Full Metal Alchemist. It could allows for bare handed magic, while offering to double as the melee by supplying a brace knuckle effect.

Ygdrasel
19th Nov 2015, 05:19
I'm still a big fan of ritual tattoos as the "weapon" for the magic class, like Scar from Full Metal Alchemist. It could allows for bare handed magic, while offering to double as the melee by supplying a brace knuckle effect.

Could do. I'm kind of iffy on Nosgoth's thing for tattoos and tribal markings and such myself (remains of whatever Dead Sun planned to be) but I'm not too concerned about the exact weapon. It's the elements and magic that concern me.

Ritual tattoos could be interesting. If they were extensive tattoos, swapping 'weapons' could almost be like swapping skins. Then of course comes what sort of tattoos would correspond to what element.

Heretic_13
19th Nov 2015, 07:20
If element is pretty easy to use as weapon- fire, water- they burn vampire very easy after all, the more basic it should be as weapon. Fire ball, or water bubbles :D should be basic weapon. As for sound and light being more devastating for general vampire population- they could be used as abilities.
Conjuring simple, small fireball could be made with snap of the fingers and diagonal swing of arms from shoulder to hip, but attaking with sound wave and great ball of light should be charged- sound could be made by hiting hand knuckles together- like shockwave in "Prototype", after charging energy in extended hands of course. Light spells could be conjured by some round movement of hands- i know a nice looking exercise technique- can`t find it tough on youtube- one arm travel upwards, other analogical downwards- in timed circle, so they look harmonous- one for blocking punch in the face, other for parrying kick in the groin. Of course in "Nosgoth" same kind of movement would be for charging energy, and wouldn`t end in guard position, only some big motion for example fireing big light ball over enemies heads
Only thing i could find coming close to the move is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnqLWaubZE0 14:55-14:57

Vampmaster
19th Nov 2015, 11:08
Raziel used glyph magic. Though his glyphs may be unrelated to the Hylden glyph energy, I've always interpreted it as the same thing. The Hylden just converted it into a more pure, generalized form to use as power for their cities and such. To use a simple analogy: Raziel's glyph spells were batteries, electricity contained in a given form, while the Hylden just harnessed the pure electricity.

And a mage having all these elements would be very odd - if he'd mastered them all, as a specializing mage might. This is more a mage that's dabbled in everything but mastered none which is why he wields them all at once with limited effect (only one ability per element) rather than have a full ability set per element. Though that is certainly an interesting idea...I'm gonna see what I can put together with that. Added a specializing variant to the OP. (Another option could be to have full loadout options per element but let the individual options be mixed-and-matched. So he's got darkness in the RMB slot, earth in the Q slot, water in F, for example.)

And as for Heretic's question: I don't use melee much so it never even occurred to me how that'd work. Maybe he'd telekinetically bash them with the talisman or something.

See, this it one reason I keep suggesting using a physical object like a scepter, a lightning rod, a lens and others to channel the magic.

1. It gives the class something to melee with.
2. It makes the idea of focusing the magic to a specific target seem more practical.
3. It adds less restrictions on the skins when they're holding the weapon in their hands. Tattoos and medallions have a requirement that the same area is unobstructed in all variations.

Regarding the glyphs, it's important to remember that Raziel's magic wasn't actually called 'Glyph Magic'. The Elder God says "These glyphs empower you with Elemental Law..." He's only using the word 'glyph' in the context of the literal definition of the word, meaning 'symbol'.

Heretic_13
19th Nov 2015, 11:24
Well i mage will be punching the living hell of vampires i have no problems with amulets being main weapon :)

Ygdrasel
20th Nov 2015, 00:53
See, this it one reason I keep suggesting using a physical object like a scepter, a lightning rod, a lens and others to channel the magic.

1. It gives the class something to melee with.
2. It makes the idea of focusing the magic to a specific target seem more practical.
3. It adds less restrictions on the skins when they're holding the weapon in their hands. Tattoos and medallions have a requirement that the same area is unobstructed in all variations.

Regarding the glyphs, it's important to remember that Raziel's magic wasn't actually called 'Glyph Magic'. The Elder God says "These glyphs empower you with Elemental Law..." He's only using the word 'glyph' in the context of the literal definition of the word, meaning 'symbol'.

Well, my original intent has them "holding" the talisman via levitation of sorts but it is certainly a physical object. If that would be tricky, they could certainly just carry it in-hand.

And Raziel used magic that corresponded at least in some way to glyphs - the Elder called them glyphs and at least some of their altars incorporated the glyphs into their design which suggests that the spells themselves were legitimately connected to those precise symbols in some fashion. Thus, for all intents, glyph magic. Magic which functions via glyphs.

What the Hylden used had no special symbols or anything associated, no glyphs, so the only reason it ought to have been called that is if it were either the same thing or similar.

Either way, connected or not, doesn't matter anything to the topic. Moving on. :P

GenFeelGood
20th Nov 2015, 02:36
@Vampmaster, you make a valid case. I'd kinda like it with a spearhead or spike on the other end in order to stake a vamp with it for the melee, going kinda old school.

Has anyone given any consideration for the reload? We could go old school with mana potions, though the image of running while chugging a bottle does seem kinda comical. My personal preference involves syphoning and crushing a stone or crystal that is charged with the restorative energies, kind of like in Dark Souls.

Ygdrasel
20th Nov 2015, 02:52
My personal preference involves syphoning and crushing a stone or crystal that is charged with the restorative energies, kind of like in Dark Souls.

I rather like that.

If we went with a staff of some kind, it could have a spiked end and use a melee animation ala Raziel impaling vampires. 'Course you already said that. I'm just supporting it. :D

Razaiim
21st Nov 2015, 00:29
I remember suggesting an Energist Class (Was trying to theme it off Dejoule from BO 1 like Anacrothe for the Alchemists)

Each weapon was a bolt-spell, with a general magic missile, an electric shock, and a short range concussive blast.
The right click charged the spell for an additional effect, such as homing/chain lightning/knockback

Abilities were things like stasis field which slowed everything with-in the bubble except allies to a crawl. Vampires would be slowed, projectiles slowed. A glyph barrier (which was taken up by Eldritch Guard). A magic sentry which fired the Energists main weapon at near-by vampires, or atleast point towards them if not visible. There was a TK grab that allowed for repositioning and throwing a vampire. A bunch of stuff.

ParadoxicalOmen
21st Nov 2015, 12:15
Specialized Variant (Each element comprises a full potential loadout):

Yes yes yes.



Darkness
Talisman: A small ornate mirror obscured by shifting dark clouds. (http://sobermomwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/mirror.png)
RMB: Netherspawn. Spawns a Shade (perhaps borrowing the Slayer model but shrouded in black fog with purple eyes) to fight the enemy.
Q: Shadow Bolt. Single-target attack, blinds the target.
F: Obscurant Shroud. Casts temporary invisibility over the user.

Dunno about humans summoning Shade:
"The Shades nature and origin has been officially explained as follows: they were beings formed from fragments of partially-devoured souls. These fragments, unable to find peace, eventually coalesced and came together to create a Shade. They were therefore soulless, but their 'bodies' were made up of souls/soul energy. This definition suggests their native place was actually the Spectral Realm, although Shades also populated the Material Realm. This was possible because of the weakening of Nosgoth's dimensional barriers, caused by the decline of the Pillars and the Binding."

Although notably Raziel was able to summon them with his dark reaver...


As for the other elementsm I'm a bit unsure cause we never saw any human mages using anything besides the fire and light elements (Disregarding the guardians of course).

Ygdrasel
21st Nov 2015, 20:55
Although notably Raziel was able to summon them with his dark reaver...


As for the other elementsm I'm a bit unsure cause we never saw any human mages using anything besides the fire and light elements (Disregarding the guardians of course).

Truth be told, darkness is a difficult element to lend to offensive use. With a blinding effect already put to Q slot, I just borrowed Raziel's thing to fill for RMB. Though given the state of the Binding in this era, it's not inconceivable that some humans figured out a method for it.


And I see where that's coming from but I don't think "we never see it" should necessarily mean it never occurred - within reason (we never see vampires riding war elephants into battle...). We never see a lot of things that suddenly appear elsewhere in the series. A common theme of elements like water and air is a need for calm to harness them, or controlled intent to harness earth. In SR's era, I'd wager they're in little condition to maintain the mindframe needed for that. Fire's simple and powerful. They'd lean more on it as the war thinned their ranks, scattered them, made them desperate.

ParadoxicalOmen
24th Nov 2015, 17:03
And I see where that's coming from but I don't think "we never see it" should necessarily mean it never occurred - within reason (we never see vampires riding war elephants into battle...). We never see a lot of things that suddenly appear elsewhere in the series. A common theme of elements like water and air is a need for calm to harness them, or controlled intent to harness earth. In SR's era, I'd wager they're in little condition to maintain the mindframe needed for that. Fire's simple and powerful. They'd lean more on it as the war thinned their ranks, scattered them, made them desperate.

Fair enough...that's why i said i was "unsure", and i didn't complain about it.
Although through-out all the eras in the LoK game, we only saw light and fire mages/sorceress...i agree that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any (as you said).

Kain did learn quite a few types of Lightning spells (my favorite being this: http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning_%28spell%29)
So that would mean someone else could learn them perhaps...

Ygdrasel
25th Nov 2015, 07:27
Fair enough...that's why i said i was "unsure", and i didn't complain about it.
Although through-out all the eras in the LoK game, we only saw light and fire mages/sorceress...i agree that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any (as you said).

Kain did learn quite a few types of Lightning spells (my favorite being this: http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning_%28spell%29)
So that would mean someone else could learn them perhaps...

Kain's lightning spell has always intrigued me. All of his other gained powers can be explained by some vampiric gift or other. The ability to command the sky itself to darken and spill forth lightning...That's a whole other level. Though given the Ancients' creation of the Pillars, one might presume they held some personal ability to harness the fundaments they would later hand off to Guardians. Lightning tying to Energy, of course, with Kain's own spell being some remnant of that capacity.

This idea is carried somewhat by the presence of fundament symbols etched into the Vampire Citadel's architecture.
And if a vampire can figure it out, why not a human?

Heretic_13
30th Nov 2015, 08:20
How about our mage slaming his staff/fist/whatever-we-will-get-for-a-weapon in to the ground in a "you shall not pass" style- earth element- wounding and knocking back vampires within range, helping to get them off of your comerades?

Vampmaster
30th Nov 2015, 11:38
Kain's lightning spell has always intrigued me. All of his other gained powers can be explained by some vampiric gift or other. The ability to command the sky itself to darken and spill forth lightning...That's a whole other level. Though given the Ancients' creation of the Pillars, one might presume they held some personal ability to harness the fundaments they would later hand off to Guardians. Lightning tying to Energy, of course, with Kain's own spell being some remnant of that capacity.

This idea is carried somewhat by the presence of fundament symbols etched into the Vampire Citadel's architecture.
And if a vampire can figure it out, why not a human?

I think a lot of Kain's powers are come from his role as balance guardian and therefore are associated with the pillars and the rest are inherant to his nature as a vampire. Or maybe since the pillars are vampiric in origin, maybe he's just sort of the perfect match for wielding their power. I think it's important to remember that Kain and the Circle of Nine are the 'Cream of the Crop' as one person said some time ago. Even if those magics are possible for non-guardians, the pillars would have served as the guardian's own personal power plant (or perhaps a siphon of the planet's power) to supercharge their magic. A mage class absolutely shouldn't be anywhere near their league. (Another reason against bare hands.)

Ygdrasel
30th Nov 2015, 21:45
How about our mage slaming his staff/fist/whatever-we-will-get-for-a-weapon in to the ground in a "you shall not pass" style- earth element- wounding and knocking back vampires within range, helping to get them off of your comerades?


That was the general idea with the stagger AoE for earth element. Just didn't go all-out LotR homage. It'd work either way.

@Vamp: Absolutely. Any regular mage would need a tool to channel the magic safely, and be limited in its usage even then. That's why my original idea didn't focus on a full range of skills for each element.

Vampmaster
30th Nov 2015, 22:03
That was the general idea with the stagger AoE for earth element. Just didn't go all-out LotR homage. It'd work either way.

@Vamp: Absolutely. Any regular mage would need a tool to channel the magic safely, and be limited in its usage even then. That's why my original idea didn't focus on a full range of skills for each element.

I wasn't just thinking of the tool vs hands though. My other point was that the Lightning spell is both lethal and has massive range. It would have to be toned down a lot if it was included. Perhaps a single bolt with smaller ones radiating out along the ground would be suitable.

Ygdrasel
1st Dec 2015, 06:07
I wasn't just thinking of the tool vs hands though. My other point was that the Lightning spell is both lethal and has massive range. It would have to be toned down a lot if it was included. Perhaps a single bolt with smaller ones radiating out along the ground would be suitable.

Oh, of course the literal spell seen in Blood Omen would be crazy. XD

Actually, I just recalled the fundaments are connected to these elements too.

Air ties into Mind and Dimension.
Fire ties into Conflict and Nature.
Earth ties into Energy (could be lightning there) and Time.
Water ties into States and Death.

Might do another revision, see if I could work that in somehow...Of course, nothing reaching a Guardian's power.