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LiSnick
3rd Nov 2015, 18:11
Attention - spoilers!

For a start I want to sincerely thank the developers for a great game. I Hope Life is Strange Season 2 will not take long.


The game is awesome, from almost everything from branded LiS rewind time, to with the excellent work of artists and level designers (without jokes and exaggerations). List of the advantages is very big. But about advantages of the game already talked a lot.:)

Now I want to say about the shortcomings of the game.

1)
The main shortcoming - the player's choice does not matter for all 5 episodes, except the last choice. But about it later. Why all of these "choices", if they do not affect the endings of the game? The second Mass Effect 3, I think nobody wants. If "choices", screenwriters specifically added, as a kind of illusory control over the world around them by Max(Maxine) Caulfield. Then why all these pop tips during the game, that all of the player's actions will have consequences. Although in reality - no. Ultimately, there is no difference - Will Kate jump off the roof or not; Max complied with the request of paralyzed Chloe or not. Not to mention the minor incidents - mainly related to Alyssa Anderson, or Max sign the petition at the beginning of the game or not. Most of the characters - cardboard dolls, with whom you can don't conduct any dialogue, and it does not affect the main branch of the plot and do not affect the endings of the game.

2)
Why you doing Chloe so stupid that even when she realizes that Rachel is not really an angel, she (Chloe) continues to substitute Max, just to avenge for Rachel. At the same time, Max, who repeatedly saves Chloe, still constantly blame themselves for what is to blame for Chloe. And Chloe is fully aware only at the end, that compared to Max, she "full ****".

3)
The intrigue with main villain - no.:eek:
Indeed, David Madsen*. respected screenwriters, his from the outset positioned, as the main suspect psychopath. Already after first episode, David swept aside from the list of suspects, purely logical. You just need to carefully pay attention to detail and that he speaks of the other characters and Max.

A small digression (students, and other minor characters do not take into account - they are for decor.)

Ray Wells* - sincerely afraid of wealthy Prescott, bonehead.
Samuel* - good-natured, feeds squirrels.

Then in the episode № 2, again logically delete the remaining suspects:
Frank Bowers** - drug dealer, bonehead, loves dogs, clearly not a maniac. In an episode of "Chaos Theory" is confirmed.
Sean Prescott** - very rich, and just an *******, Nathan's father. He was not interested in anything except money.
Nathan Prescott** - very rich, and just an *******, Sean's son. Addict, mentally unbalanced. But the addict, not maniac. He is not independent. In episode "Out of Time" it is clear that someone manipulated ...

Mark Jefferson - out of suspicion, only in "Chrysalis" episode (just because communication with him episodic). Since the end of the episode "Out of Time", suspect №1. Then just attention to detail: Jefferson's photos - refined and gloomy at the same time, you can see it in the classroom. His manner to have a dialog, gait, gesticulation, externally imperturbable, calm voice, practically does not react to the shenanigans of the students, he doesn't respond to flirting of Victoria (not openly hostile or embarrassed). Clearly interested in Max, but this interest is not sexual, and it is not love, like Max for Warren. No, it is the interest of another sort - manic. Luxury car - a sign not only of wealth, but also the style (refinement). Besides, why "talented" photographer, successful and well-known teacher, which could make a career in any prestigious universities in the world, works in such a hole as Arcadia Bay? Something keeps his there, attracts, what he can do, without fear of publicity. And besides, screenwriters, after the episode "Chrysalis", made a very big spoiler, cutscene, which shows how somebody, puts a folder named Rachel, after an episode of "Out of Time" folder named Kate. This action is characterizes anonymous as refined pedant, carefully collecting file-cabinet his victims. Refined pedant in the game, only one - Jefferson.
That is, we have that for 3 episodes before ending (hope that only the first season), maniac found (for those, who pay attention to details and can logically speculate :scratch:).

4)
Is sad that Max (about Chloe and David, shall hold back), devs from Dontnod, not vested at least a drop of logic. Because of this, the whole 5-th episode turns into a farce. No effect of surprise. It was immediately clear, that as soon Max and Chloe will be at the dump, theirs "are caught by surprise", but for me as a player it was not surprise.

Incidentally, why only two options Jefferson destiny (prison or a bullet in the head), you could add as Max, using her abilities, makes with Jefferson (before being killed his :naughty:), that too, he did with his victims. Anyway.:)

5)
Further, instead of unnecessarily tightened, latest stealth nightmare Max, it would be better explained to the players (your vision), how she got his superpowers and how they affect the world around (Chaos theory is not plausible answer, do not take offense gentlemen screenwriters).

6)
Well, the last that did not like. Yes Yes Yes! Endings of game.

a)
Sacrifice Chloe.

Given that Max was in the Arcadia Bay not by chance, namely, at the very moment when she saved Chloe. Can not be such coincidences. At that moment she had a superpower, WHY? that after all trials which have been passed Max with Chloe (repeatedly saving the life of Chloe) in the ending to kill her? Where is meaning? Max and Chloe by the end of the game formed very strong affection to each other, real friendship. They real become close people, also as is Max's parents for her, and for Chloe was her father. And devs have offered to the player just go and kill Chloe? Thus erasing all previous events that will never disappear from the memory of Max?

Imagine the real world (Gentlemen, screenwriters from Dontnod Ent. and you gamers-superheroes who saved Arcadia Bay), where in front of you (as front of Max) such a choice. You would sacrifice their close person for the village with unfamiliar people?

Because no sane person would not kill a close person, even for the whole village with little known people.

b)
Sacrifice Arcadia Bay.

Destroy the Arcadia Bay. And what there to destroy, I asking you, ladies and gentlemen screenwriters from Dontnod? Village of ghosts? From which all leaving, because family Prescott made it impossible for people to be staing in the Arcadia Bay? Max will be sorry to Prescott? Will be sorry Bullies of Blackwell Academy, who scoffed at her?

Almost forgot. All media of Arcadia Bay throughout the game warned of the impending catastrophe. But almost none of the residents taken seriously. This can be in reality?

7)
You had the opportunity to make just that Max could to convince those or other characters(Joyce Price, Warren Graham and some other) go out of town, or hide somewhere from tornado. You tried to do with the homeless woman at the two whales diner, but you stoped on this. Why? What prevented? Instead, you set before the player is not a moral choice, no - It is an illusion of choice. This lack of any choice. Endings is "crap" gentlemen screenwriters. With the same success could offer Max to jump off a cliff, or shoot himself in the head without options.

Thus, in the final should have been different endings(example: Spec Ops The Line or Deus Ex HR) or one (example: Last of Us or Bioshock Infinite). And the choice accepted a player must have a value (example: series of games The Witcher).

:(Doubly sorry for the game, because such exellent projects like as "Life is Strange", in the gaming industry is very small.

P.S. Despite the shortcomings. I want to again thank Dontnod Ent. for Life is Strange, for a wonderful island, among the ocean of projects the gaming industry without idea. Do not throw Life is Strange, development further,to become a perfect game. Look forward to.:wave:

:thumb:8/10

In what Episode character is completely excluded from the suspects.
*Chrysalis
**Out of Time
MANIC

KristaD
3rd Nov 2015, 18:33
I'll have to wonder why this all this fuzz over the suppose to some have effect in the end of the game, "This action will have consequences" doesn't have to mean that event has to tie into the end of episode 5.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's really easy to cough up some criticism, like you do with Chloe when you are looking at from the outside. I have similar view of a person like Chloe has regarding Rachel, I hope that does not make me stupid.

What constitutes "A perfect game" can be argued about till the end of game. Art is not about telling you what the world should be like, but how the world is.

Tataboj
3rd Nov 2015, 20:22
That is, we have that for 3 episodes before ending (hope that only the first season), maniac found (for those, who pay attention to details and can logically speculate ).
Whoa whoa whoa. Logically speculate?
Not everybody calm, in luxury car is maniac, you know. And you have just officially called every town under about 20 000 residents "a hole". :) Besides, he might have a friend in AB, a really lucrative job, there are milions of reasons. People were clutching at a straw here.

it would be better explained to the players (your vision), how she got his superpowers and how they affect the world around (Chaos theory is not plausible answer, do not take offense gentlemen screenwriters).
It is clear writers didn't want to give you all the answers. Everybody has made their own in their head.

Imagine the real world (Gentlemen, screenwriters from Dontnod Ent. and you gamers-superheroes who saved Arcadia Bay), where in front of you (as front of Max) such a choice. You would sacrifice their close person for the village with unfamiliar people?
Unless I want to become a mass murderer, I must kill her.
If I would face such a choice, I would definitely save the town. No matter how great friend it is, you can't kill thousands of innocent people, dying there a slow, cold death under debris. If someone would sacrifice thousands of people for a friend, actually these people seem rather insane to me.
And you may live in a 10 milion city, but Arcadia Bay isn't a village, it's a town.
Village with a little known people? It's her fricking hometown! She grew up here! And Warren, Joyce, David, Alyssa and everybody at Blackwell is what? And those are people that just us, the players got to know, she must have known much more people. And I would sacrifice my closest friend even for some random town, there are thousands of people! And I am not God (I'm atheist, actually), I can't kill these people even if they were bad.

Destroy the Arcadia Bay. And what there to destroy, I asking you, ladies and gentlemen screenwriters from Dontnod? Village of ghosts? From which all leaving, because family Prescott made it impossible for people to be staing in the Arcadia Bay? Max will be sorry to Prescott? Will be sorry Bullies of Blackwell Academy, who scoffed at her?
When police found the Dark Room and Jefferson was arrested in San Francisco timeline, Sean Prescott got under investigation for corruption. That will happen in the Sacrifice Chloe ending, too. And what village of ghosts? (it's a town!) It seems pretty active and alive.


Almost forgot. All media of Arcadia Bay throughout the game warned of the impending catastrophe. But almost none of the residents taken seriously. This can be in reality?
You didn't see many residents. But yeah, Max's lack of warning people before tornado was alarming.

In most of other things I think you are right, but I think are too fixed on the gameplay and choices. This genre isn't about gameplay (although it is an important aspect that gives these types of games much more potential than equivalents of movies and TV shows).

PinkFrog
3rd Nov 2015, 21:13
Welcome to the forums.
And thanks for sharing. As much as I agree that some decisions during the making of LiS are.... questionable, I also think that some of the stuff you mention is not so bad, really.

- Choice. I have to defend the game mechanics here. As far as I see it, giving the player a choice doesn't have to make his game turn out to be fundamentally different from the playthrough of another player. I think the overall story should be similar for all players so that they can share their experience. At least in this kind of game that is very close to TV kind of experience. Other games will support a more diverse story, for sure. But this kind of story here is very refined and orchestrated. It doesn't allow too much wandering off into different directions. Would I have like to see more "results"? Maybe, sure, why not. Was it really needed? I don't think so. There are so, so many details, sms messages, dialog options, reactions of characters to Max that are different everytime you play (and play differently). Also, and that is more important: if you have a dialog and Max can choose between two dialog options, this is important for how you identify with Max, even if the game continues either way in the same fashion. You still made Max more cautions, or more open-hearted or whatever. Your Max feels different just saying different stuff. Even if in the end, all Max's are dealing with the say drama.

- The villain. In hind-sight we are all clever. But whilst the story unravelled, there were many uncertainties. Samuel with his collection of girly things in his boxes, David with his data collection and secrets, the Prescotts with their plans to take over the city. There were a lot of ways this could have ended. But for me, this is not really so important. The villain is the backdrop, the stuff that forces our protagonists out of the hiding holes. It is because of the villain that Max and Chloe become what they are in the end. I'd like to say traumatized wrecks, others say grown-ups. So, who dons the cape of evil and why is not really that important. Important is Max' and Chloes journey as they overcome.

- The end. Yeah... it's crap. I agree. ;)

LiSnick
6th Nov 2015, 18:35
I'll have to wonder why this all this fuzz over the suppose to some have effect in the end of the game

Have consequences, but not have a global significance. All the effects are reduced to the relationship Max with secondary characters, with most of which not necessarily talk. Well, except the relationship with Kate.


"This action will have consequences" doesn't have to mean that event has to tie into the end of episode 5.

Right. Devs secured themselves, they cleverly mentioned that some act which will have consequences, but did not say, that is a consequence affect the ending of the game (they took into account the experience of ME3). But that's the main problem of LiS.


As for the rest of the stuff, it's really easy to cough up some criticism, like you do with Chloe when you are looking at from the outside. I have similar view of a person like Chloe has regarding Rachel, I hope that does not make me stupid.

Just, almost the entire LiS Chloe makes reckless actions, creating trouble for Max and ignoring her warnings. Devs gave Chloe large selfishness and small instinct for self-preservation. But I agree. People are different. In this case, I was not trying to hurt anybody.


What constitutes "A perfect game" can be argued about till the end of game. Art is not about telling you what the world should be like, but how the world is.

Well, besides a good plot (in LiS generally a good story, but sometimes it sags). The main character must constantly evolve internally. The main character should actively explore the world. The main character should to interact with the game world and with a variety of other characters. Game world must to create the illusion of real life, it must be in constant motion, it must respond to the actions of the player, but only if the player have a strong impact on the world. Player should have a many choices, how to act in a specific situation. And quantity of choice must grow with the active interaction of main character with the world around him. Not only YES or only NO. Adequate AI for NPC, not walk through walls and not be get stuck in the textures.:)

LiSnick
6th Nov 2015, 18:43
Whoa whoa whoa. Logically speculate?
Not everybody calm, in luxury car is maniac, you know.

I wrote about the "luxury car" and "calm", as about one of the things that characterizes Mr. Jefferson, as the only character in the LiS, which very meticulous relate to detail. Regarding his serenity. In fact of the matter is that Jefferson in terms of the behavior of the absolute antithesis of David. Not to be confused maniac and usual psychopath or just unbalanced person. If you want you can read the scientific literature on this occasion. Yes, even in the cinematograph this topic many times is shown.


And you have just officially called every town under about 20 000 residents "a hole". :)

You're lying. I didn't call every town - hole. The more so - officially. :)


Besides, he might have a friend in AB, a really lucrative job, there are milions of reasons.

Uh ... You're talking about Arcadia Bay or about specific town?


People were clutching at a straw here.

If we are talking about Arcadia Bay, there, after the beginning of the problems with fishery was one straw - Prescotts, though they are not particularly worried about the fate about the town or its residents.


It is clear writers didn't want to give you all the answers. Everybody has made their own in their head.

No ideas. Superpowers of Maxine gave chrysalis? The Spirit of Rachel? Themselves came from fear? She was all taking place in LiS dream? Chaos theory? Chaos theory is more appropriate to explain the processes at the physical level. In LiS authors say that the influence of Max at a time leads to a tornado. But time is more philosophical concept. "Games" Max with time would have lead to the emergence of alternative reality (what was shown in the third episode), the most plausible option, because when Max changed the past, she is automatically changed and the future. Only nuance - devs began to assert that may be only a single version of the future. Although is theoretically events in the future, when changing the past will always be random (in other words, in the third episode Max shifted to in only one of an infinite number of variations of alternate reality). Or "games" Max with time theoretically would have lead to global changes in the scale of all the universe (as an example in Bioshock Infinite), rather than a tornado in a particular location, at a certain time interval.


Unless I want to become a mass murderer, I must kill her.
If I would face such a choice, I would definitely save the town. No matter how great friend it is, you can't kill thousands of innocent people, dying there a slow, cold death under debris. If someone would sacrifice thousands of people for a friend, actually these people seem rather insane to me.

Oh well. Do not forget, we are not talk about friend who joined the ranks of a certain organization taken possession of weapons of mass destruction. Talk about a close person, who is in no way to blame. Mother will be to kill her baby, if she was told that out of her baby, scientists will be able to do a vaccine against the virus N and it can save of lives people unfamiliar to her and living in town X. If the mother will refuse to kill her child, you also will be call her as a serial killer or crazy? All heroes sitting at home on the sofa.


And you may live in a 10 milion city, but Arcadia Bay isn't a village, it's a town.
Village with a little known people? It's her fricking hometown! She grew up here! And Warren, Joyce, David, Alyssa and everybody at Blackwell is what? And those are people that just us, the players got to know, she must have known much more people.

You are too fixated on the "village". It is so offended you? I don't mind against the small towns, they are in some ways even better than the megalopolises, there is a more peaceful of lifestyle, provided that, there developed infrastructure, a variety of industries, the use of high-tech to maintain the life of the town, social protection of citizens, a high level of health and education, social equality, freedom of speech and press, the town should not be in the hands of the same family, is a large variety of work for its citizens with high-wages (not huge), otherwise it is - de jure a town and de facto a hole. In antiquity and the Middle Ages it was also de jure a huge number of towns, but how people lived in them - it is quite another question. About "village". Let it be a town. Just judging by the conversations of Arcadia Bay residents, their main type of activity - fishing. Nothing indicates that there availability is though some kind industries. Mainly petty trade. And Prescott Foundation - Family Prescott has invested a lot of money in the development of the city, in particular, in Blackwell Academy. (so they has a big impact even on the police). Most likely - the moneylenders, they gave loans to residents of Arcadia Bay. The owners of the land around the city. Rather, financially dependent on them almost the whole town, and residents was very difficult find a job, because of this, many people gone from Arcadia Bay. Yes, Arcadia Bay it's a town but it looks like a village.

Hometown? Without people living in it - he is nothing. And people from Arcadia Bay were warned of the impending catastrophe, including Max warned them, and fact that they ignored the warnings, it's their fault, not Max or Chloe. Because of their carelessness Max had to kill Chloe?


And I would sacrifice my closest friend even for some random town, there are thousands of people!

That's only your friend would have to agree to sacrifice himself. Or you would not be interested in his opinion?


And I am not God (I'm atheist, actually), I can't kill these people even if they were bad.

Well. it's not in the faith or not. Nobody, not have the right to kill people - not thousand but even one man for the sake of thousands of others people. If of course we are talking about a person, and not about a assh@le who threatens others.



When police found the Dark Room and Jefferson was arrested in San Francisco timeline, Sean Prescott got under investigation for corruption. That will happen in the Sacrifice Chloe ending, too.

It looks like you're playing carelessly, Jefferson anyway adjudged to hands police, because Max and Chloe told all David and probably about the tornado (also applies to Sean Prescott). And considering that in any city have a system of shelters in the event of disaster, it is likely many people will survive after the tornado. In general, when choosing to Sacrifice Arcadia Bay - is the only option that makes it possible LiS second season with the same main characters (if Square Enix agree).


And what village of ghosts? (it's a town!) It seems pretty active and alive.

I have already answered it...


You didn't see many residents. But yeah, Max's lack of warning people before tornado was alarming.
Apparently in Arcadia Bay not known that such is weather satellites.


In most of other things I think you are right, but I think are too fixed on the gameplay and choices. This genre isn't about gameplay (although it is an important aspect that gives these types of games much more potential than equivalents of movies and TV shows).

This genre - interactive movie.

Games without gameplay does not happen, even interactive movie has a bit of gameplay. Another thing is that the gameplay can be a good and can be bad and that's all. It's better than a TV show because you are involved in a process, not just a spectator.

However, the future of such projects does not depend on the developers but from publishers, them need figures with lots of zeros in the profits column. I do not think that Square Enix wants to continue with LiS (if only petition from the community). SE already claimed somehow, that to them do not need projects with less than 5 million copies sold.

For this reason, they wanted to shut down (but then changed your mind), several major series such as: Hitman, and TR.

Besides LiS for all its virtues - it is a niche product. And publishers are oriented primarily on the mass consumers, which wants a bunch of cool explosions, falling helicopters and other bull****. To think, these players do not want, and majority could not...

LiSnick
6th Nov 2015, 18:51
- Choice. I have to defend the game mechanics here. As far as I see it, giving the player a choice doesn't have to make his game turn out to be fundamentally different from the playthrough of another player.

I mentioned this above, but I'll say it again. Right. On the mechanics of the game developers secured themselves, they cleverly mentioned that some act which will have consequences, but did not say, that is a consequence affect the ending of the game (they took into account the experience of ME3).


I think the overall story should be similar for all players so that they can share their experience.

But that's the main problem of LiS. For me is no interest, in the short-term effects which not affect the ending of game. Just for fun - not interested.

I don't agree that the experience should be the same for everyone, it's not a shooter. Same endings for all, I accept, if it is justified in terms of plot, while the player is not trying to play to the illusion of choice.

That is why I have no complaints, for example, to the ending of Bioshock Infinite, and a complete disappointment at the endings of ME3, as well as at the endings of LiS.


At least in this kind of game that is very close to TV kind of experience. Other games will support a more diverse story, for sure. But this kind of story here is very refined and orchestrated. It doesn't allow too much wandering off into different directions. Would I have like to see more "results"? Maybe, sure, why not. Was it really needed? I don't think so. There are so, so many details, sms messages, dialog options, reactions of characters to Max that are different everytime you play (and play differently). Also, and that is more important: if you have a dialog and Max can choose between two dialog options, this is important for how you identify with Max, even if the game continues either way in the same fashion. You still made Max more cautions, or more open-hearted or whatever. Your Max feels different just saying different stuff. Even if in the end, all Max's are dealing with the say drama.

I have no claims about the game world and mechanics LiS. A lots of small details in this game is one of the advantages, but not added large variability for LiS.



- The villain. In hind-sight we are all clever. But whilst the story unravelled, there were many uncertainties.

I wrote about my game experience. I not played to LiS until come out all the episodes (I don't like playing one by one episode). And I didn't look any reviews of pseudo-experts, I haven't been on any of the forums dedicated to LiS, and sought no information at all about the game since its announcement in order to avoid spoilers.

Therefore, attempt to blame me for that, I made my conclusions about who the villain in LiS, just after the full game walkthrough - to put it mildly stupid. I'm at the end of the second episode understood who the main villain. If you carefully played to LiS, at least in the third episode you would have to understand... Speedrun is misplaced :gamer:. And the ability to analyze either have or you do not. No offense.


Samuel with his collection of girly things in his boxes, David with his data collection and secrets, the Prescotts with their plans to take over the city. There were a lot of ways this could have ended.

Samuel? who holds things in the back of the dormitory killed by them people? And while the storeroom door is almost always open? Yes, yes, there is a second door, but it certainly is entrance into one of the corridors of the dormitory.

David? After the first two dialogs with him, it is clear that he suspects many students in the use of drugs, and other misconduct which violating discipline in the academy. For the same reasons David disliked all the party of the vortex club. His job to keep order. He's a security guard. His behavior is explained in the first and in the second episode.

Prescotts? Sean Prescott was interested only in power over Arcadia Bay and in money, and Nathan - addict, which has not received due attention and care (besides money of course) from his father. Complete the second episode of attentively.



But for me, this is not really so important. The villain is the backdrop, the stuff that forces our protagonists out of the hiding holes. It is because of the villain that Max and Chloe become what they are in the end. I'd like to say traumatized wrecks, others say grown-ups. So, who dons the cape of evil and why is not really that important. Important is Max' and Chloes journey as they overcome.

No, the topic about the villain, is quite interesting, is simply no intrigue. Topic tornado is really unnecessary background - I have already mentioned why.


- The end. Yeah... it's crap. I agree. ;)

Well, at least you though in something agree with me.;)

Tataboj
6th Nov 2015, 20:24
It looks like you're playing carelessly, Jefferson anyway adjudged to hands police, because Max and Chloe told all David and probably about the tornado (also applies to Sean Prescott)
I was talking about the San Francisco timeline and why Arcadia Bay doesn't have to be in economical crisis anymore.

And besides, screenwriters, after the episode "Chrysalis", made a very big spoiler, cutscene, which shows how somebody, puts a folder named Rachel, after an episode of "Out of Time" folder named Kate. This action is characterizes anonymous as refined pedant, carefully collecting file-cabinet his victims. Refined pedant in the game, only one - Jefferson.
We didn't know the folders were evil, it could have meant anything.

And Prescott Foundation - Family Prescott has invested a lot of money in the development of the city, in particular, in Blackwell Academy. (so they has a big impact even on the police). Most likely - the moneylenders, they gave loans to residents of Arcadia Bay. The owners of the land around the city. Rather, financially dependent on them almost the whole town, and residents was very difficult find a job, because of this, many people gone from Arcadia Bay.
Yeah, but that still doesn't mean AB can't recover from it, since Sean is under investigation for corruption. And maybe I wasn't paying that much attention, but I don't think that many people left the town. Everything seems to work.

Oh well. Do not forget, we are not talk about friend who joined the ranks of a certain organization taken possession of weapons of mass destruction. Talk about a close person, who is in no way to blame. Mother will be to kill her baby, if she was told that out of her baby, scientists will be able to do a vaccine against the virus N and it can save of lives people unfamiliar to her and living in town X. If the mother will refuse to kill her child, you also will be call her as a serial killer or crazy? All heroes sitting at home on the sofa.
Yes, she is in no way to blame, but there are also dozens of residents in Arcadia Bay who don't have any blame. And no matter how close she is, it doesn't make her any better than those thousands of people. So yes, I would do it even if she asked me to not, it would be just harder for me. That's of course my opinion and I think I expressed my reason exactly. :)
And about the mother and the baby: my baby probably wouldn't be the only option to make the drug, there will be other ways to develop it for sure.

And considering that in any city have a system of shelters in the event of disaster, it is likely many people will survive after the tornado
Heh, but it is a town, not a city. ;) And yes, it is likely people will survive.

Besides LiS for all its virtues - it is a niche product. And publishers are oriented primarily on the mass consumers, which wants a bunch of cool explosions, falling helicopters and other bull. To think, these players do not want, and majority could not...
I am pretty sure LiS is a success and profitable, so... why not?

In general, when choosing to Sacrifice Arcadia Bay - is the only option that makes it possible LiS second season with the same main characters (if Square Enix agree).
1. Why wouldn't he possible second season with Max and Warren, Kate and everybody?
2. Dontnod stated that they want to make a second season, but with a new cast.

Games without gameplay does not happen, even interactive movie has a bit of gameplay
I meant, it is mainly the story, the gameplay is the secondary stuff, just like story is in almost every other videogame genre.

It's better than a TV show because you are involved in a process, not just a spectator.
I agree. :)

However, the future of such projects does not depend on the developers but from publishers, them need figures with lots of zeros in the profits column. I do not think that Square Enix wants to continue with LiS (if only petition from the community). SE already claimed somehow, that to them do not need projects with less than 5 million copies sold.
LiS sold one milion copies in June or so. I don't know whether the statement about 5 milion copies is true, but still, LiS is profitable and has a big fan community.

Whoo... That was exhausting. I'm not as young as I used to be, so don't be dissapointed if I won't respond again. :)

PinkFrog
6th Nov 2015, 21:16
I mentioned this above, but I'll say it again. Right. On the mechanics of the game developers secured themselves, they cleverly mentioned that some act which will have consequences, but did not say, that is a consequence affect the ending of the game (they took into account the experience of ME3).



But that's the main problem of LiS. For me is no interest, in the short-term effects which not affect the ending of game. Just for fun - not interested.

I don't agree that the experience should be the same for everyone, it's not a shooter. Same endings for all, I accept, if it is justified in terms of plot, while the player is not trying to play to the illusion of choice.

That is why I have no complaints, for example, to the ending of Bioshock Infinite, and a complete disappointment at the endings of ME3, as well as at the endings of LiS.



I have no claims about the game world and mechanics LiS. A lots of small details in this game is one of the advantages, but not added large variability for LiS.




I wrote about my game experience. I not played to LiS until come out all the episodes (I don't like playing one by one episode). And I didn't look any reviews of pseudo-experts, I haven't been on any of the forums dedicated to LiS, and sought no information at all about the game since its announcement in order to avoid spoilers.

Therefore, attempt to blame me for that, I made my conclusions about who the villain in LiS, just after the full game walkthrough - to put it mildly stupid. I'm at the end of the second episode understood who the main villain. If you carefully played to LiS, at least in the third episode you would have to understand... Speedrun is misplaced :gamer:. And the ability to analyze either have or you do not. No offense.



Samuel? who holds things in the back of the dormitory killed by them people? And while the storeroom door is almost always open? Yes, yes, there is a second door, but it certainly is entrance into one of the corridors of the dormitory.

David? After the first two dialogs with him, it is clear that he suspects many students in the use of drugs, and other misconduct which violating discipline in the academy. For the same reasons David disliked all the party of the vortex club. His job to keep order. He's a security guard. His behavior is explained in the first and in the second episode.

Prescotts? Sean Prescott was interested only in power over Arcadia Bay and in money, and Nathan - addict, which has not received due attention and care (besides money of course) from his father. Complete the second episode of attentively.




No, the topic about the villain, is quite interesting, is simply no intrigue. Topic tornado is really unnecessary background - I have already mentioned why.



Well, at least you though in something agree with me.;)

I have no idea how the multiquote thing works (and couldn't be bothered to check).

I see your point about actions should have visible consequences, especially in the final outcome. But I'm not sure I can agree that this is true for each game that offers choice in the same way. Now, I don't want to talk about genres, because I think "genre" is not helpful in defining how a game should or should not be. The less we all think in genres the more fun games can be, I think. Anyhow, I digress.
What I think the most important thing to consider, is, what does the player feel when he plays the game. And, obviously, what does the developer hope that the player would feel.
Very complex games that are heavily influenced by pen&paper etc. offer the feeling of "owning" the character you play. Molding it from you imagination. Those games urgently need to emphasis free choice and a huge variety of outcomes to support that feeling.
Other games let you "watch" the protagonist whilst he's doing his thing and the players role is to skillfully press "A" to continue (well, you know what i mean).
LiS is somewhere inbetween it seems. The story is pre-fabricated, each character has a personality that is predefined, even Max'. This allows the developer to orchestrate the protagonists inner and outer journey with all the nuances and surprises that we have experienced.
I'm rambling, I know. What I'm getting to here is, I feel that Dontnod actually hit the depth of the choices and the outcomes very accurately to make us more immersed with the characters but still keep the story tight. It's a niche-game but it fills that niche very well.
That being said, some more wrapping up in the end would have been great. And that final choice... I dont want to get into that, but yeah, I think that was not a very good idea for many reasons.

You brought up ME3. I think that, even though the disappointment for the ending may feel equal, the reasons are very different. Or at least somehow different. For me, the major disappointment was actually earlier when the series started as (pretty) hard and mature sci-fy and ended up as rule-of-cool-fest with utter disregard of logic or any kind of common sense. The ending was just the final nail in that coffin. LiS doesn't have this kind of problem. Well, I think so anyhow.

About Jefferson, yeah, I mean, there was always the feeling he might be the baddy. But like I said, it was a hunch that could have gone either way. For a long time it wasn't even clear that there IS a baddy, after all.

Therefore, attempt to blame me for that, I made my conclusions about who the villain in LiS, just after the full game walkthrough - to put it mildly stupid. whoa whoa... hold your horses here... we're all friends in this forum :) My point was that once the villain was disclosed, many of us thought "so it IS him... dammmmn". And not like... HIIIIM?? How on earth?!?.
Also, I stand to my point, the focus of the game is the inner and outer journey of Max and Chloe. Jefferson is preeetty much just a story tool. So, could the story have been more inventive here? Maybe.. would it have made much difference if it would have been? Probably not... is what I think.

Anyway, thanks for the time to answer me.
Cheers.

LiSnick
9th Nov 2015, 14:16
I was talking about the San Francisco timeline

OK.


and why Arcadia Bay doesn't have to be in economical crisis anymore...Yeah, but that still doesn't mean AB can't recover from it, since Sean is under investigation for corruption

Well, people were leaving and before. I already wrote about the economy Arcadia Bay. There's no economic crisis - there economic catastrophe. Tornado just to completed an economic collapse of Arcadia Bay. It is doubtful that, even after being Sean Prescott will be imprisoned, at once the economy would improve or went of the flow of investment, etc. (but who would have given their to Arcadia Bay and under what safeguards) would be required the years, maybe decades, for the development of infrastructure and production ...



We didn't know the folders were evil, it could have meant anything.

You didn't know.:)


And maybe I wasn't paying that much attention, but I don't think that many people left the town.

Ok, let's will not build guesses - many people left the town or not. Input data on the population of inhabitants of Arcadia Bay, before the events of the game and at time events of the game, devs haven't provided.


Everything seems to work.

I wouldn't say it.


Yes, she is in no way to blame, but there are also dozens of residents in Arcadia Bay who don't have any blame. And no matter how close she is, it doesn't make her any better than those thousands of people. So yes, I would do it even if she asked me to not, it would be just harder for me. That's of course my opinion and I think I expressed my reason exactly.

OK. Let's agree to differ.


And about the mother and the baby

It figuratively


my baby probably wouldn't be the only option to make the drug, there will be other ways to develop it for sure.

Well, do not tell. Nobody knows what kind can be viruses in the future, "carefully created in a secret laboratory by gloomy geniuses". But even ordinary can mutate (eg influenza). And in the history of mankind have been epidemic outbreaks, which would finished the human race on the vine, but this didn't happen just because some people was produced immunity at the genetic level to virus agents, and to some the regions, epidemic not reached, due to various factors: geographical. economic, etc.

As for "will be other ways to develop". Maybe will be found another way, when 2/3 of the population of the world will die, and maybe even then - nobody nothing invents.



Heh, but it is a town, not a city. ;)

Yeh. Sure.


And yes, it is likely people will survive.

That's what I'm talking about.


I am pretty sure LiS is a success...

I don't argue that LiS is successful, at least for connoisseurs of high-end product.


...and profitable, so... why not?

I don't know on what financial profit is calculated SE in attitude of LiS, so...time will tell.



1. Why wouldn't he possible second season with Max and Warren, Kate and everybody?

And? What's next? IMHO storyline of Arcadia Bay - finished. Need a new town or city.


2. Dontnod stated that they want to make a second season, but with a new cast.

I don't think it's a good idea. If just they are not going "Close the Circle", as Irrational Games, linking storylines and characters of their games. Otherwise, let the Dontnond, better engaged their Vampyr.


I meant, it is mainly the story, the gameplay is the secondary stuff, just like story is in almost every other videogame genre.

Yep, "mainly the story", but if not gameplay or is bad (gameplay, this is not necessarily something like: shoot - reload - run for cover - throw a grenade - shoot - reload - run in another corridor or "Press X To Win"), then than a game or an interactive movie will be different from a movie? Possible, can be fully manage only cutscenes (you know who, and on what platforms), in which to add the QTE, put in a box and sell under the guise of a cool game, but whether it is good - I think, no. A survey of the game world, and interact with him and NPC - it is the gameplay, so it is also important. Though of course "mainly the story".



I don't know whether the statement about 5 milion copies is true, but still, LiS is profitable and has a big fan community.

Link (http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/explanatory_20130326en.pdf). Of course out there it doesn't say specifically, "that SE already claimed somehow, that to them do not need projects with less than 5 million copies sold.". There it does point the desired profit and discontent that these "desires" are not fulfilled. Anyway, at the time of publication of this report SE weren't very happy with the sales of its IP. But of course I think it's impossible to compare the financial cost of to those games and of LiS - LiS development is clearly cheaper.


Whoo... That was exhausting. I'm not as young as I used to be, so don't be dissapointed if I won't respond again. :)

haha, i'll try.:)

LiSnick
9th Nov 2015, 14:32
I have no idea how the multiquote thing works (and couldn't be bothered to check).

I see your point about actions should have visible consequences, especially in the final outcome. But I'm not sure I can agree that this is true for each game that offers choice in the same way. Now, I don't want to talk about genres, because I think "genre" is not helpful in defining how a game should or should not be. The less we all think in genres the more fun games can be, I think. Anyhow, I digress.
What I think the most important thing to consider, is, what does the player feel when he plays the game. And, obviously, what does the developer hope that the player would feel.
Very complex games that are heavily influenced by pen&paper etc. offer the feeling of "owning" the character you play. Molding it from you imagination. Those games urgently need to emphasis free choice and a huge variety of outcomes to support that feeling.
Other games let you "watch" the protagonist whilst he's doing his thing and the players role is to skillfully press "A" to continue (well, you know what i mean).
LiS is somewhere inbetween it seems. The story is pre-fabricated, each character has a personality that is predefined, even Max'. This allows the developer to orchestrate the protagonists inner and outer journey with all the nuances and surprises that we have experienced.
I'm rambling, I know. What I'm getting to here is, I feel that Dontnod actually hit the depth of the choices and the outcomes very accurately to make us more immersed with the characters but still keep the story tight. It's a niche-game but it fills that niche very well.
That being said, some more wrapping up in the end would have been great. And that final choice... I dont want to get into that, but yeah, I think that was not a very good idea for many reasons.

Thx for you imho.


You brought up ME3. I think that, even though the disappointment for the ending may feel equal, the reasons are very different. Or at least somehow different. For me, the major disappointment was actually earlier when the series started as (pretty) hard and mature sci-fy and ended up as rule-of-cool-fest with utter disregard of logic or any kind of common sense. The ending was just the final nail in that coffin.

I have a lot of criterias by which I can say: - "Yes. This is a awesome game" (but of such games very few and a series of ME not one of them). ME3 i brought as a negative example.



LiS doesn't have this kind of problem. Well, I think so anyhow.

Well, LiS up to trilogy (if will be) still far away, so who knows what problems may occur...At this stage LiS, except slurred endings, really, no serious problems.



About Jefferson, yeah, I mean, there was always the feeling he might be the baddy. But like I said, it was a hunch that could have gone either way. For a long time it wasn't even clear that there IS a baddy, after all.

OK. Just is interesting that on almost all the characters (excluding paper dolls) there was a certain compromising, besides Mr. Jefferson.

As for "could have gone either way". If not take into account all evidence, conversations with the characters, notes, letters, etc., collected during the first two-three episodes of LiS, then maybe "either way" otherwise...no.


whoa whoa... hold your horses here... we're all friends in this forum :) My point was that once the villain was disclosed, many of us thought "so it IS him... dammmmn". And not like... HIIIIM?? How on earth?!?.

You wrote "In hind-sight we are all clever."...Well, then misunderstood each other.


Also, I stand to my point, the focus of the game is the inner and outer journey of Max and Chloe.

With this, I don't argue.


Jefferson is preeetty much just a story tool.

The whole game world of LiS - a big story tool.


So, could the story have been more inventive here? Maybe.. would it have made much difference if it would have been? Probably not... is what I think.

In the current scenario - yeah, that is right.


Anyway, thanks for the time to answer me.
Cheers.

:)

PinkFrog
9th Nov 2015, 15:06
I played the game with wifey this weekend and in ep 4 at the end she knew that it's Jefferson before he showed up. She didn't pay much attention to details (never talked to Samuel etc.) so it's not reeeealy a proof for anything, but I can see how he's a suspect pretty much since ep 1 or 2.
She also didn't have problems with the sacrifice Chloe ending... which was enlightning. The game seems to be perfectly fit for people who don't care much about any of the characters. :D

LiSnick
10th Nov 2015, 13:09
She also didn't have problems with the sacrifice Chloe ending... which was enlightning. The game seems to be perfectly fit for people who don't care much about any of the characters. :D

In real life, these people are behave on the other ... sometimes vice versa. Well, you know what i mean.



I played the game with wifey this weekend and in ep 4 at the end she knew that it's Jefferson before he showed up. She didn't pay much attention to details (never talked to Samuel etc.) so it's not reeeealy a proof for anything, but I can see how he's a suspect pretty much since ep 1 or 2.

haha...oh really?...very funny..."before he showed up". Only here the I brought my arguments, rather than - "Uh ... my guess - it's HE". Huh...Well, devs could be to joke, and instead of/in addition to Jefferson to the party could add a couple suspicious characters, which also "completely random" would be faced with the main characters (on that basis?)...and then what?

Thx. You've just made my day.:)