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PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 17:24
After being hurt, disappointed and angry for a while I took a deep breath and played ep5 once more. The goal was to find some sort of closure.

The game doesn't provide one, so I had to trick myself a little bit.

Here's how:

1.) Pick the bae ending. The other one doesn't exist, will never exist. There are many reasons why, which I'm too lazy to write down. Basically it comes down to: Max simply can't do that. Not to herself, not to Chloe, not to Joyce and David. Especially as long as there is no certainty that it will actually help.

2.) Realize something: no human being would simply drive off after a tornado hit the home town. Really bad people would start looting, selfish people would start checking what can be retrieved from the own house. Nice people like our protagonists would check for survivors. We simply have to assume Max and Chloe did that. Everything else would be utter nonsense. That means: a lot of time passes between lighthouse scene and car scene.

3.) We only see what we see. And we don't see any dead bodies from people we know. So, until they are shown dead, I shall remain hopeful that they are fine. And why not. A lot of what's going on doesn't present itself in a clear way. The protagonists make suggestions but they also just assume, really. E.g. the connection between Max' action and the tornado is just speculations. Chloes death preventing the tornado, just speculations. The tornado killing everyone: just speculation. So, let's not speculate too much and rather assume that everything's fine until proven otherwise.

4.) The car drive happens after Max and Chloe helped Joyce, Warren, Pompidou and all the others. Everyone is save for now and there's not much to do until the catarpillars and trucks arrive for the clean-up. Once the medics and whoever arrived, set up tents or whatever, Max and Chloe decide to take a road trip. This is weird, but understandable given the drama both of them have endured. Staying in the bay may be too much for them right now.

5.) A more artistic interpretation would be that the road trip is actually a metaphor for the new life Max and Chloe starting together and shouldn't be taken literally at that point.

I think it's weird that the audience is forced to jump through hoops to make the ending endurable. It will never make much sense, too. But there you go.

Feeling much better now.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 17:47
No, Max can't do it to David and Joyce, she rather risks letting them all die! I couldn't resist.

I was angry and upset too, but then I replayed it again, accepted the predictable ending and... I like it now (I saved people of Arcadia Bay). So, that's how I made peace with Ep 5.

Don't read this if you don't want me to disrupt part of peace.
I'm sorry, but it's impossible for everyone to survive. Since Max didn't go to the diner, she didn't rescue anyone. For sure Evan died, trucker died and most likely Alyssa and fisherman died. Also Warren isn't responding Max's messages, so probably everybody in the diner died too.

codemasher
1st Nov 2015, 17:50
1.) Basically it comes down to: Max simply can't do that. Not to herself, not to Chloe, not to Joyce and David. Especially as long as there is no certainty that it will actually help.

2.) That means: a lot of time passes between lighthouse scene and car scene.

3.) So, let's not speculate too much and rather assume that everything's fine until proven otherwise.

4.) Staying in the bay may be too much for them right now.


This. So much this. I wonder how one would come to make wild assumptions of an entirely erased town and that Max and Chloe would just drive off.

PalatineKatinka
1st Nov 2015, 17:51
I don't really see any of those has hoops to jump through, just a logical way to interpret what we are shown. I respect the choice made by some to sacrifice Chloe but it's not something I'd want to do and it's not something I believe Max could do given the way she talks and writes about Chloe so yeah, Sacrifice Arcadia Bay is the one we should both run with.
You are absolutely right that we don't see confirmed deaths of any other named characters and only two unnamed. The town is supposed to be full of bomb shelters and people had about 4 hours from when the tornado was recognisable as a major issue to when it actually hit so plenty of time for people to get safe.
Max and Chloe driving out of town makes sense to me, especially if we assume they've checked on people there first, as Max will probably want to go back to Seattle and let her parents know she's alive and well. I doubt she wants to just call them when they can take a 4 hour drive and let them know in person.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 17:54
Umm... Every single choice was made the way Max could do both.

PalatineKatinka
1st Nov 2015, 18:24
Umm... Every single choice was made the way Max could do both.

Exactly. Every choice can go any of the available ways. So please stop trying to rain on the parade of those who didn't choose your way and are coming to terms with and finding acceptance of the choice they made. It's an imortant part of moving on in the grieving process.

PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 18:27
No, Max can't do it to David and Joyce, she rather risks letting them all die! I couldn't resist.

I was angry and upset too, but then I replayed it again, accepted the predictable ending and... I like it now (I saved people of Arcadia Bay). So, that's how I made peace with Ep 5.

Don't read this if you don't want me to disrupt part of peace.
I'm sorry, but it's impossible for everyone to survive. Since Max didn't go to the diner, she didn't rescue anyone. For sure Evan died, trucker died and most likely Alyssa and fisherman died. Also Warren isn't responding Max's messages, so probably everybody in the diner died too.

Interesting question: what is worse, dying or losing your whole family one by one. I suppose it depends on what death feels like :scratch:

Thanks for the spoiler tag. True, Evan and trucker are dead (if in that timeline everything is happening exactly like in the "pre-jump through the vortex-party selfie" one.) The other ones, not so sure.

And those two are not reeeeally hmmm how can I say it politely... :flowers:

PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 18:29
Exactly. Every choice can go any of the available ways. So please stop trying to rain on the parade of those who didn't choose your way and are coming to terms with and finding acceptance of the choice they made. It's an imortant part of moving on in the grieving process.

haha

There is a fine line between coming to terms with something whilst not being oblivious to facts and running around in circles with hands on both ears yelling "lalalalalalala".

I prefer the first for shure.

JohnnyPepsi
1st Nov 2015, 20:01
Reading all this, it has dawned on me that this ending as presented literally--and I honestly do mean "literally"--does not improve in any appreciable way over the player keeping their eyes closed for the same length of time.

Seriously, all this ending tells us is that rain does bad things to buildings and that Chloe knows how to drive.

PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 20:22
Reading all this, it has dawned on me that this ending as presented literally--and I honestly do mean "literally"--does not improve in any appreciable way over the player keeping their eyes closed for the same length of time.

Seriously, all this ending tells us is that rain does bad things to buildings and that Chloe knows how to drive.

Well there's this moment where Chloe comforts Max. That's nice.

Lehkeri
1st Nov 2015, 20:26
Well there's this moment where Chloe comforts Max. That's nice.

It still annoys me that I have no clue where Chloe got the new ring...

PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 20:27
Her car is kinda messy... no? Who knows what's to find for a girl in dire need of a new ring.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 22:10
Exactly. Every choice can go any of the available ways. So please stop trying to rain on the parade of those who didn't choose your way and are coming to terms with and finding acceptance of the choice they made. It's an imortant part of moving on in the grieving process.

Wait. I never did that.

PalatineKatinka
1st Nov 2015, 22:19
Wait. I never did that.

Oh. Okay. My bad. Sorry.

KristaD
1st Nov 2015, 22:22
It still annoys me that I have no clue where Chloe got the new ring...

I wouldn't be surprised it is William's wedding ring, she might have picked it up from the his belongings in the garage at some point.
I found it looked kinda big on her finger.

Lehkeri
1st Nov 2015, 23:14
I wouldn't be surprised it is William's wedding ring, she might have picked it up from the his belongings in the garage at some point.
I found it looked kinda big on her finger.

It's possible. That would mean they either stop at the Price house after the storm or Chloe just carries around an extra ring. I mean... I guess that could happen?

I know I've said this before, but I really, really hate when things are left TOO open. Some ambiguity is nice and all, but too much is... too much.

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 00:00
It's possible. That would mean they either stop at the Price house after the storm or Chloe just carries around an extra ring. I mean... I guess that could happen?

I know I've said this before, but I really, really hate when things are left TOO open. Some ambiguity is nice and all, but too much is... too much.

I would like to think that they would have stopped there to pick up some stuff, but then there could be more content in that ending for sure.

Xeva-q
2nd Nov 2015, 07:11
After being hurt, disappointed and angry for a while I took a deep breath and played ep5 once more. The goal was to find some sort of closure.

The game doesn't provide one, so I had to trick myself a little bit.

Here's how:

1.) Pick the bae ending. The other one doesn't exist, will never exist. There are many reasons why, which I'm too lazy to write down. Basically it comes down to: Max simply can't do that. Not to herself, not to Chloe, not to Joyce and David. Especially as long as there is no certainty that it will actually help.

2.) Realize something: no human being would simply drive off after a tornado hit the home town. Really bad people would start looting, selfish people would start checking what can be retrieved from the own house. Nice people like our protagonists would check for survivors. We simply have to assume Max and Chloe did that. Everything else would be utter nonsense. That means: a lot of time passes between lighthouse scene and car scene.

3.) We only see what we see. And we don't see any dead bodies from people we know. So, until they are shown dead, I shall remain hopeful that they are fine. And why not. A lot of what's going on doesn't present itself in a clear way. The protagonists make suggestions but they also just assume, really. E.g. the connection between Max' action and the tornado is just speculations. Chloes death preventing the tornado, just speculations. The tornado killing everyone: just speculation. So, let's not speculate too much and rather assume that everything's fine until proven otherwise.

4.) The car drive happens after Max and Chloe helped Joyce, Warren, Pompidou and all the others. Everyone is save for now and there's not much to do until the catarpillars and trucks arrive for the clean-up. Once the medics and whoever arrived, set up tents or whatever, Max and Chloe decide to take a road trip. This is weird, but understandable given the drama both of them have endured. Staying in the bay may be too much for them right now.

5.) A more artistic interpretation would be that the road trip is actually a metaphor for the new life Max and Chloe starting together and shouldn't be taken literally at that point.

I think it's weird that the audience is forced to jump through hoops to make the ending endurable. It will never make much sense, too. But there you go.

Feeling much better now.

http://orig04.deviantart.net/1cb2/f/2013/020/6/6/bree_the_pink_unicorn_by_breelikespink-d5s70cs.jpg

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 10:22
I'm having difficulties interprating this response.

Are you expressing genuine happiness?
Or are you refering to ponies to express the concern that the harsh reality of the game is not accepted for what it is?

Or do you just love Pinkie Pie (as any person should)?

Help me out here ;)

Tataboj
2nd Nov 2015, 10:29
I'm having difficulties interprating this response.

Are you expressing genuine happiness?
Or are you refering to ponies to express the concern that the harsh reality of the game is not accepted for what it is?

Or do you just love Pinkie Pie (as any person should)?

Help me out here ;)

Rule #1 If you accidentally read any Xeva-q's post, hit your head against the wall three or four times, then go to surgery and remove the part of your brain which contains memory. It should help, works for me.

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 11:02
I think Xeva-q is just a cute little Brony :)

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 11:12
Maybe it's his spirit animal.

Xeva-q
2nd Nov 2015, 13:30
Or are you refering to ponies to express the concern that the harsh reality of the game is not accepted for what it is?
exactly.

Or do you just love Pinkie Pie (as any person should)?
But of course i am.

Rule #1 If you accidentally read any Xeva-q's post, hit your head against the wall three or four times, then go to surgery and remove the part of your brain which contains memory. It should help, works for me.
So you do love me. You can just say it. Do not hold it inside.

You make the whole thread talk about me. That is so nice!

i love you too.:flowers:

I think Xeva-q is just a cute little Brony :)
But of course. Cutest and smallest.

Maybe it's his spirit animal.
My spirit animal is a beaver. I think. Or wombat.

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 14:05
exactly.



Well, the harsh reality of the game sucks. Hence the endeavour to experience as less sucky.
Life should be strange and not soul crushing.

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 14:38
Well, the harsh reality of the game sucks. Hence the endeavour to experience as less sucky.
Life should be strange and not soul crushing.

I think life (at least mine) is all of those 3, harsh, strange and soul crushing. But then it is also full of other stuff too, love, enjoyment , adventure and all those nifty things. :)

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 15:10
I think life (at least mine) is all of those 3, harsh, strange and soul crushing. But then it is also full of other stuff too, love, enjoyment , adventure and all those nifty things. :)

Yeah, i meant the fictitious life in "life is strange". Life itself, the real life, can be a class-A bleeep. But I think it's not necessary to make us live through the worst of it in our game. Especially as the title suggests an adventure. And not a soul crushing experience.

If the game would have been called "Life is hell" or whatever I would have expected what we were actually shown.

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 15:18
Yeah, i meant the fictitious life in "life is strange". Life itself, the real life, can be a class-A bleeep. But I think it's not necessary to make us live through the worst of it in our game. Especially as the title suggests an adventure. And not a soul crushing experience.

If the game would have been called "Life is hell" or whatever I would have expected what we were actually shown.

If the game would have had the title Life is Hell" I most likely wouldn't have bought it, it's actually the title that made me buy the game and the trailer I saw made me want to take this step into the unknown. I generally just jump into things somewhat blindly, it's better to live a life of "oh well" than of "what if's" :)

Tataboj
2nd Nov 2015, 15:20
Oh, I didn't know Xeva-q made such a beautiful post full of love, make an exception for my rule.

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 15:21
Indeed!

That's exactly my point: nobody would want to buy a game called "Life is hell". But that is pretty much what we got.
What's the point of that?

Tataboj
2nd Nov 2015, 15:23
Yeah, i meant the fictitious life in "life is strange". Life itself, the real life, can be a class-A bleeep. But I think it's not necessary to make us live through the worst of it in our game. Especially as the title suggests an adventure. And not a soul crushing experience.

If the game would have been called "Life is hell" or whatever I would have expected what we were actually shown.

Even if the game was named "Life is Beautiful", it would be still fitting name for me. :)
I mean, yeah, we got not-so-good endings and pretty unfortunate events and how to deal with (others' feelings) but that doesn't mean it wasn't a beautiful journey and experience (not just for me).

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 15:28
Indeed!

That's exactly my point: nobody would want to buy a game called "Life is hell". But that is pretty much what we got.
What's the point of that?

I'm not that sure it is a fitting title, there is more than just misery in Life is Strange. There is a lot of things that happen in the game, from good to bad and everything in between. You are making sound way more bleak than it actually is.

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 15:58
I'm not that sure it is a fitting title, there is more than just misery in Life is Strange. There is a lot of things that happen in the game, from good to bad and everything in between. You are making sound way more bleak than it actually is.

The ending is certainly way too bleak.

But the rest of the game is too dark, too. We have (cyber)-bullying on a criminal offence-scale, attempted suicide, homicide, kidnapping, drug abuse, sexual assault, paralysis of a young person, assisted suicide, annihilation of a whole town, cruelty to animals, domestic violence, loss of relatives (and a high amount of petty crimes like possession, carrying weapons, stealing, intruding) etc.

WTF? Is that what Dontnod sees when they think "Life"?

Yeah, I get it: life is happy stuff and sad stuff. But come on! Seriously? Don't think they tried way too hard?

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 16:06
The ending is certainly way too bleak.

But the rest of the game is too dark, too. We have (cyber)-bullying on a criminal offence-scale, attempted suicide, homicide, kidnapping, drug abuse, sexual assault, paralysis of a young person, assisted suicide, annihilation of a whole town, cruelty to animals, domestic violence, loss of relatives (and a high amount of petty crimes like possession, carrying weapons, stealing, intruding) etc.

WTF? Is that what Dontnod sees when they think "Life"?

Yeah, I get it: life is happy stuff and sad stuff. But come on! Seriously? Don't think they tried way too hard?

I find it interesting you are skipping out every single positive thing we see in the game... and I don't find assisted suicide a bad thing.

And all those things you mentioned are in there for a reason, I am personally glad they brought all those topics up in their game, and I am very grateful they included all the positive ones as well.

Xeva-q
2nd Nov 2015, 16:26
Well, the harsh reality of the game sucks.

If our main characters really left everyone behind just like that, should you really be in sorrow about their fate?

Everything in this game is much, much darker than you ever thing of.


Indeed!

That's exactly my point: nobody would want to buy a game called "Life is hell". But that is pretty much what we got.
What's the point of that?

life is strange and full of completely pointless things.


Oh, I didn't know Xeva-q made such a beautiful post full of love, make an exception for my rule.

Seriously, for someone who ignoring me, you talking about me too much.

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 17:31
I find it interesting you are skipping out every single positive thing we see in the game... and I don't find assisted suicide a bad thing.

And all those things you mentioned are in there for a reason, I am personally glad they brought all those topics up in their game, and I am very grateful they included all the positive ones as well.

No, yeah, of course. I'm not ignoring the positive things in the game per se. But my point is that the game throws a lot of very disturbing things at the player and then calls that "life". As if this stuff would happen to all of us on a regular basis and we should get used to it as part of "growing up".

Having to deal with "kill either the love of your short life or everyone else you know" is NOT what i consider the usual or acceptable rite of passage. And neither is all that other dark stuff. :scratch:

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 17:32
If our main characters really left everyone behind just like that, should you really be in sorrow about their fate?

Everything in this game is much, much darker than you ever thing of.



life is strange and full of completely pointless things.


Agreed.

Tataboj
2nd Nov 2015, 17:57
It kinda seems to me that you haven't made peace with this game yet. :)

KristaD
2nd Nov 2015, 18:01
No, yeah, of course. I'm not ignoring the positive things in the game per se. But my point is that the game throws a lot of very disturbing things at the player and then calls that "life". As if this stuff would happen to all of us on a regular basis and we should get used to it as part of "growing up".

Having to deal with "kill either the love of your short life or everyone else you know" is NOT what i consider the usual or acceptable rite of passage. And neither is all that other dark stuff. :scratch:

The games doesn't call it life, you do. :) All the stuff the happens in the game doesn't happen to a single person. That is one bleak and pessimistic view on the choices you are confronted with in the end, hope you see other more positive things in life in general.

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 23:09
It kinda seems to me that you haven't made peace with this game yet. :)

Oopsy... ^^
Nah... I'm good. Actually.

But just imagine they would go for a second season and would feel compelled to top all that... sheesh.
I just think it would have been a better story if it weren't so depressing. BECAUSE the rest is so good.

PinkFrog
2nd Nov 2015, 23:13
The games doesn't call it life, you do. :) All the stuff the happens in the game doesn't happen to a single person. That is one bleak and pessimistic view on the choices you are confronted with in the end, hope you see other more positive things in life in general.

Well it's right there... in the title. When this game is called "Life is strange" then i expect that the game shows me how strange life is. And not how a girl has the ****tiest week of her life. "Week is ****ty"... hmmm catchy.
And yeah, it doesn't happen to Max, but it's always very, very close. Innit?

This language censoring is really... strict.

KristaD
3rd Nov 2015, 01:04
Well it's right there... in the title. When this game is called "Life is strange" then i expect that the game shows me how strange life is. And not how a girl has the ****tiest week of her life. "Week is ****ty"... hmmm catchy.
And yeah, it doesn't happen to Max, but it's always very, very close. Innit?

This language censoring is really... strict.

Of course it is close, if it would be it wouldn't have any effects on you as a player, if all the negative and not some positive things would be relegated to some backseat somewhere if would make this game quite un-interesting and less engaging.

Tataboj
3rd Nov 2015, 07:21
Well it's right there... in the title. When this game is called "Life is strange" then i expect that the game shows me how strange life is. And not how a girl has the ****tiest week of her life. "Week is ****ty"... hmmm catchy.
And yeah, it doesn't happen to Max, but it's always very, very close. Innit?

This language censoring is really... strict.

Purpose of the title isn't to tell you what a movie, book, game is about. "Title" doesn't mean "theme". In the movie The Wall, will you complain because there isn't enough walls? And if Life is Strange was called What If? (that was the original title), would that be better? I think not because it tells mainly about gameplay mechanic and not the story.

PinkFrog
3rd Nov 2015, 11:59
Purpose of the title isn't to tell you what a movie, book, game is about. "Title" doesn't mean "theme". In the movie The Wall, will you complain because there isn't enough walls? And if Life is Strange was called What If? (that was the original title), would that be better? I think not because it tells mainly about gameplay mechanic and not the story.

Yeah well, it's not just the title, is it? There's also the artworks, the trailers, the interviews where they talk about "nostalgia", "growing up", "trying to make the right decisions"... None of this points to the bleakness of the actual story.

PinkFrog
3rd Nov 2015, 12:01
Of course it is close, if it would be it wouldn't have any effects on you as a player, if all the negative and not some positive things would be relegated to some backseat somewhere if would make this game quite un-interesting and less engaging.

I thought we were talking about how many bad things happen in a very confined space of arcadia bay in just one week. And not about who exactly it is happening to, no? For the emotional impact for the player it just has to happen to characters he has grown to care about. Not just one particular one.

KristaD
3rd Nov 2015, 12:13
I thought we were talking about how many bad things happen in a very confined space of arcadia bay in just one week. And not about who exactly it is happening to, no? For the emotional impact for the player it just has to happen to characters he has grown to care about. Not just one particular one.

Ok, I lost you a bit there, but I am pretty sure I wasn't talking about what happens to who in the game.

PinkFrog
3rd Nov 2015, 13:15
Ok, I lost you a bit there, but I am pretty sure I wasn't talking about what happens to who in the game.

I agree, it got a bit off track there. I think we were discussing that i think the game is too bleak and negative and you suggested that it also has a lot of beautiful things ;)

Which is true, of course.

Tataboj
3rd Nov 2015, 13:48
Movies and stories overall show you some extraordinary things that happen to you, not everyday life. And in my opinion this game was very important because it dealt with lots of problems.

PinkFrog
3rd Nov 2015, 13:58
Movies and stories overall show you some extraordinary things that happen to you, not everyday life. And in my opinion this game was very important because it dealt with lots of problems.

What I say and what you say doesn't contradict each other: I like to see extra-ordinary things as well, not just a simulation of un-eventful normal life. BUT, that doesn't necessarily mean all the things i have listed a few posts above. Extra-ordinary is quite exquisitly covered by Max' powers for example. And a drug-dealer waving around his gun is ok, bullying is ok.
Some of the other stuff LiS throws at us? Not ok.

KristaD
3rd Nov 2015, 14:08
I agree, it got a bit off track there. I think we were discussing that i think the game is too bleak and negative and you suggested that it also has a lot of beautiful things ;)

Which is true, of course.

I personally find it better to focus on the beautiful things in the game, some of witch reminds me of the best friendships or the only long term relationship I have had. Maxine's and Chloe's friendship really stands out in this regard and Maxine helping Kate as much as she can. These where the high points in the game for me, there might be some more that do not come to mind right now, but I find that the positive things somewhat overshadow the negative things that happen in the game.

Maybe I am just really bias towards the positive parts of the game since I've had enough of the negative stuff in my own life.

Tataboj
3rd Nov 2015, 14:15
Well, I am just grateful for the topics LiS showed us.