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View Full Version : After playing ep 5 again, two questions



PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 00:06
Actually a lot more... but there were two new things i didn't understand.

1.) In that time you go back out of the dark room to the selfie you took in class you make everything perfect by handing in the photo. Why would in that time Nathan not shoot Chloe? Why is handing the photo to Jefferson linked to the bathroom scene?

2.) Why made burning the diary cause Max to be in the darkroom again? I understand why the narrative has the burned diary because it forces Max to go to the 2 whales and generally drives the story forward. But I don't get that the burned diary causes Jefferson to run around freely capturing Max and all that. Max had already sent that text message to David. He should be on his way to the barn just like in the perfect time-line.

Any ideas?

KristaD
1st Nov 2015, 00:16
#1 By using the photo to travel through time allows her to only effect limited amount of things in the same time line, generally a single room / open space (like Chloe's house), witch then changes the future time line ( or it branches off into a separate time line).
The event she is effecting is only changing the outcome of the Everyday Hero's contest and tipping of David Madsen about Mark Jefferson.

#2 I'm not sure Mark burning the diary is the reason for her being in the Dark Room, but it does set up the pieces for David saving you and some awesome insight in to David though the following dialog.

PalatineKatinka
1st Nov 2015, 00:32
1) After that moment in the class room Max's conciousness leaves and events carry on as normal until the changes she made actually trigger changes. Rescuing Chloe isn't affected by her text to David or handing in her photo so it happens as before.

2) Ripping the photo in her room lead to the remains being in her journal instead of being on the bathroom floor. Once Jefferson got hold of the journal and saw the potentially award winning picture destroyed he went into a rage and burned the journal and all other photos in it including the classroom selfie which prevented the 'text David and hand in photo' moment from being possible.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 01:14
2) Ripping the photo in her room lead to the remains being in her journal instead of being on the bathroom floor. Once Jefferson got hold of the journal and saw the potentially award winning picture destroyed he went into a rage and burned the journal and all other photos in it including the classroom selfie which prevented the 'text David and hand in photo' moment from being possible.

If that happen, why David comes in if the destroying of the winner Photo cause that effect? From San Francisco you go back to a point before Season 1, you destroy the winner photo and end up in the Dark Room again...but this time David run´s in to save you.

Why when you never text him? I think this scene and more (before it) are cause of the fact they running out of time and money, without any deeper sense. I thought normaly if you destroy the winner photo you simply dont go to San Francisco and you had time to find out something about the storm...or other clues. But the dev´s couldn´t make it. So you have to step forward in the story...drive to town and so on...the rest...

Recently AFTER this you can go out, drive to the Diner took the photo and talk to Chloe wich sadly end on the beach (without going over the Dark Room again)...so normaly if I understand it right, to destroy the winner photo only effects the contest and like the first time david got your text and arrest Mr. Jefferson.

KristaD
1st Nov 2015, 01:18
If that happen, why David comes in if the destroying of the winner Photo cause that effect? From San Francisco you go back to a point before Season 1, you destroy the winner photo and end up in the Dark Room again...but this time David run´s in to save you. Why when you never text him? I think this scene and more (before it) are cause of the fact they running out of time and money, without any deeper sense. I thought normaly if you destroy the winner photo you simply dont go to San Francisco and you had time to find out something about the storm...or other clues. But the dev´s couldn´t make it. So you have to step forward in the story...drive to town and so on...the rest...

You can make points like this til the end of time really, the devs need to pick and choose what makes it into the game based on the relevance to the main story being told and keeping true to the message of that story, mostly likely so the game doesn't end up in development hell for a year or two.

Lehkeri
1st Nov 2015, 01:22
David does say "Don't thank me, you brought me here" when he's freeing Max. Okay, I can understand this happening if Joyce does not kick David out, since Max & Chloe left their investigation wide open in her room.

But this also happens when Joyce does kick David out and he goes into a hotel. How... did he know where Max was? What am I missing? Did he visit the house later that night?

Andres57
1st Nov 2015, 01:23
With the winning photo destroyed, the other events happened the same way as the non-alternative timeline, but instead with the journal burned. David already suspected Jefferson, so maybe he would come to that house anyway, not?

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 01:29
You can make points like this til the end of time really, the devs need to pick and choose what makes it into the game based on the relevance to the main story being told and keeping true to the message of that story, mostly likely so the game doesn't end up in development hell for a year or two.

right but if you try to find a logical point (out of the story) for the fact that you end in the dark room again (after you simply change the Everday Heroes contest outcome) isn´t possible I think. We simply dont know what happen to Max that she is back in the dark room AND david comes in to save her, if she not goes to the every day´s hero contest.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 01:31
David does say "Don't thank me, you brought me here" when he's freeing Max. Okay, I can understand this happening if Joyce does not kick David out, since Max & Chloe left their investigation wide open in her room.

But this also happens when Joyce does kick David out and he goes into a hotel. How... did he know where Max was? What am I missing? Did he visit the house later that night?

Normaly its because Max text him where the dark room is on his smart phone he didn´t need to go home for that as long he can take a look at his smartphone. And the text arrives david at the morning October 7th...so he is always at home with Joyce.


With the winning photo destroyed, the other events happened the same way as the non-alternative timeline, but instead with the journal burned. David already suspected Jefferson, so maybe he would come to that house anyway, not?

Maybe but like Lehkeri allready says: David says "Don't thank me, you brought me here" That must be the text from Max...or any other message we dont mention bcs. we dont know what realy happen after max destory´s the winner photo.

KristaD
1st Nov 2015, 01:40
All David has to do to find Maxine is to go to Chloe's room and look at all the evidence they gathered.

The only difference between the instances where Maxine doesn't enter the Everyday Heroes contest is that in one she tore up the photo, witch brought about one change, made Jefferson mad enough to burn her diary.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 01:44
Why then he didnt come in during Max first time in the Dark Room? You need to text him to activate him so he can save max after your photos got burned.

KristaD
1st Nov 2015, 01:48
Maybe because he was still on his way ? I'm pretty sure those two instances of the Dark Room don't happen at the same time during the evening/night. I think more time has passed in the second one. It's quite hard to tell them under drugs makes you lose consciousness.

PalatineKatinka
1st Nov 2015, 01:48
When Max returns to the Dark room she isn't repeating the time the time we have already played as her there. It is set after those events. We play as her using a photo in the Dark Room to go to an earlier point in the Dark Room, we'll call this point T and the photo leads to T-x. While at the moment of T-x, within a photo Jefferson took of her in the Dark Room, Max uses another photo to go to Monday and warn David an dhand in her photo. On leaving Monday she returns to the time of T-x when she is instead on a plane and comments about how weird it is looking outside when she's still not in the right time. She then returns to point T, Friday at the gallery. She then uses her award winning photo to return to the moment it was taken and destroy it, causing her to return to being in the Dark Room, moments after point T (how long after being equal to the amount of time you spend wandering around the gallery) when she would have used Jefferson's photo to start the mad sequence of time jumps. David was always going to arrive when he did and in the end that was unaffected by the changes Max tried to make. During the timeline in which she was in San Fran David had led the police to Jefferson days earlier but now her text is undone.

David probably knew to go there from Max & Chloe's clues which he likely found on Monday morning after Joyce would have asked him to go looking for the girls since neither of them were answering their phones or returning texts, If you tell him that Chloe is dead he mentions that he either spent the night in a hotel feeling sorry for himself or was sitting at home too stupid to figure it out for himself so we know it isn't until Monday morning that he arrives and we know Joyce has been worried and trying to contact Max & Chloe from the texts on Max's phone. Even if he's been kicked out I imagine Joyce still would have contacted him when she was that worried. It's not normal for them not to end up back in Chloe's bed by morning.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 07:30
David and police arrested Jefferson in Tuesday or Wednesday, so Max's travelling through the photos was erased. And he had coordinates of Jefferson's movement, he had his own investigation.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 09:56
Maybe because he was still on his way ? I'm pretty sure those two instances of the Dark Room don't happen at the same time during the evening/night. I think more time has passed in the second one. It's quite hard to tell them under drugs makes you lose consciousness.

We know the exact time (+/- 1 Hour or so)

1. Time Travel through a photo was on an afternoon. Max save´s William and come out in the afternoon October 9.
2. Time Travel she stays overnight with Chloe and go back in the Phtoto in the early morning October 10. She let William die and come out in the morning October 10. "after a night playing CSI Arcadia Bay"
3. Time Travel she goes in to the Picture where she is still druged and come back the Time must be arround the same as she goes in but with the alteration she made during the druged phase (destroying the ampoule with the drugs) that´s leeds to a picture where Max is awake and can talk to Mr. J. but this time she goes back (out of the picture) to the class and send the text

Because of the last picture journeys we know that she come out at arround the same time she goes in, but only in an alternate timeline.

She came out in the Plane at Friday morning? I dont know if we know the exact time but the newspaper wrote about the two moons "last night".

-> max captured in the evening October 10th is held by Mr. J. to the morning of October 11th and come out of the picture during the October 11th there the Game skips time randomly but come back to this theory later after wie destry the Everyday Heros photo. At the Zeitgeist we call Chloe and the storm is allready incomming. We go back in time, destroy the picture in the evening/later afternoon October 11th and came out in the Evening October 11th but now in the Dark Room again...arround the time we leave in San Francisco. With the last Photo journey it´s the same, from the Diner (evening October 11th we go back save chloe again bcs. we told her stay at the room, dont search for Mr. J. or Nathan we never go to the junkyard and find rachel and didn´t end in the Dark Room) so we came out October 11th in the evening with Chloe on the Beach looking at the vortex.

The time hole is between Friday Morning (dark room last session and friday evening where we are rescued from david). We dont know what happen in this time..more drugs...? The game didnt tell.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 10:18
The time hole is between Friday Morning (dark room last session and friday evening where we are rescued from david). We dont know what happen in this time..more drugs...? The game didnt tell.
What to tell here? Jefferson continued in taking photos of her.

max captured in the evening October 10th is held by Mr. J. to the morning of October 11th and come out of the picture during the October 11th there the Game skips time randomly
Max travelled to the photo where she was awake, we don't know the exact time but it's morning (I'll get to it). From there she travelled to her first selfie in J's class - past within the past. When she gets out off that photo, she gets to the time of that photo where she was awake (that's why I know it is morning, well they are in San Francisco but still) - between realities. Then she gets out of that time and is finally in the real time, where she can move freely and no "countdown" is present.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 10:35
What to tell here? Jefferson continued in taking photos of her.

How it can happen that you are in the dark room again. With the text you call David to arrest Mr. Jefferson during October 08. to 09. or so. After it you won the Everyday Heros Contest, fly to San Francisco and so on. If you allready text David (and I am still at the point that happen EVEN you destroy the winner-photo) why he need´s so long...from the text (monday) to find the dark room (friday) alone without cops.

The op asks the question how it can happen you are in the dark room again after going back from the Zeitgeist gallery.

With the text in mind and without proofs that the text didnt happen in the mondey ther is at least nothing much space for fanfiction how you can end in the dark room again. Maybe you text david...he didn´t find out much at his own...is to lazy...so stupid...idk...the night of the vortexclub party comes, mr. jefferson see that you destroy´s the photo, he reages about it and manage to drug you. but that collide with the chloe is allready dead at this point fact.

And all this leads me to the conviction there is no real answer out there. Not out of the story, not out of the canon so the question from the op cant answerde with canon or story...it happens and now I am fully at your side...simply bcs. the story was written in this way without the needs/opportunity of an proof.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 10:51
How it can happen that you are in the dark room again. With the text you call David to arrest Mr. Jefferson during October 08. to 09. or so. After it you won the Everyday Heros Contest, fly to San Francisco and so on. If you allready text David (and I am still at the point that happen EVEN you destroy the winner-photo) why he need´s so long...from the text (monday) to find the dark room (friday) alone without cops.

The op asks the question how it can happen you are in the dark room again after going back from the Zeitgeist gallery.

With the text in mind and without proofs that the text didnt happen in the mondey ther is at least nothing much space for fanfiction how you can end in the dark room again. Maybe you text david...he didn´t find out much at his own...is to lazy...so stupid...idk...the night of the vortexclub party comes, mr. jefferson see that you destroy´s the photo, he reages about it and manage to drug you. but that collide with the chloe is allready dead at this point fact.

And all this leads me to the conviction there is no real answer out there. Not out of the story, not out of the canon so the question from the op cant answerde with canon or story...it happens and now I am fully at your side...simply bcs. the story was written in this way without the needs/opportunity of an proof.

I have 2 theories.
1. The realities are somehow connected
2. When Max tore the contest photo, all the things she changed in Jefferson's class erased because she was in different situation.

He doesn't want to drug Max because he sees the photo in the Dark Room. He wanted to drug Max from the beginning - she knows where the Dark Room is and she knows Jefferson is behind it, since she saw him shoot Chloe.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 11:26
2. When Max tore the contest photo, all the things she changed in Jefferson's class erased because she was in different situation.

Yeha and thats what didnt fit´s in my theory bcs. like Lekheri says allready even after you tore the contest photo david says thank you you led me to this...


He doesn't want to drug Max because he sees the photo in the Dark Room.

Sorry I am not clear at this point. He must see the photo before he catch Max and simply decide to drug her on any point at friday nigth so he can bring her to the dark room. Maybe he took a look at her book in the class during that week. Than he rages bcs. he plan to announce Max as the winner and now cant so plan B calls in drug her everwhere and any time after the contest ends on friday night. With her knowldedge she wont go to the junkyard and so Mr. Jefferson cant dose her there. But as I allready says, thats collide with the Chloe is still dead during your last visit at the dark room.

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 13:15
Yeha and thats what didnt fit´s in my theory bcs. like Lekheri says allready even after you tore the contest photo david says thank you you led me to this...

He didn't mean the message for sure because if yes, he would have gone to the Dark Room with more cops and Jefferson would have been arrested on Tuesday. He meant something different.
Sorry I am not clear at this point. He must see the photo before he catch Max and simply decide to drug her on any point at friday nigth so he can bring her to the dark room. Maybe he took a look at her book in the class during that week. Than he rages bcs. he plan to announce Max as the winner and now cant so plan B calls in drug her everwhere and any time after the contest ends on friday night. With her knowldedge she wont go to the junkyard and so Mr. Jefferson cant dose her there. But as I allready says, thats collide with the Chloe is still dead during your last visit at the dark room.
I think he simply saw her innocence when she took a selfie. And she doesn't have the knowledge of the events that are to come, when Max gets out of the photo, "secondary" Max doesn't remember what she has done and lives normally. When our Max gets to the time, she doesn't remember what the secondary Max has been doing, but for example in San Francisco reality, all the choices you made Max did (that's how she acts normally). So Max doesn't have the knowledge of Jefferson drugging people, so she will go to the junkyard if our Max's changes in the class are erased.

--TIE--
1st Nov 2015, 13:24
He didn't mean the message for sure because if yes, he would have gone to the Dark Room with more cops and Jefferson would have been arrested on Tuesday. He meant something different.

Like in the other thread...we cant know what happen, the text is the only thing what we are knowing. To deny the facts each time and think "its someting different we didn´t know" only led to this downward spiral without end...

I am out of it. Thx for talking :D:wave:

Tataboj
1st Nov 2015, 13:42
Like in the other thread...we cant know what happen, the text is the only thing what we are knowing. To deny the facts each time and think "its someting different we didn´t know" only led to this downward spiral without end...

I am out of it. Thx for talking :D:wave:

Actually, it is impossible for the message to be sent, as I explained. I handed facts.

PalatineKatinka
1st Nov 2015, 13:44
The time hole is between Friday Morning (dark room last session and friday evening where we are rescued from david). We dont know what happen in this time..more drugs...? The game didnt tell.

David didn't rescue Max in the evening. It's dark because of the massive storm and cloud coverage but it isn't that late. When Max get's out and switchs her phone on to contact Warren and get the photo from him her phone says it's 12:19pm.

PinkFrog
1st Nov 2015, 16:58
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmackwebsolutions.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2Foh-no-ive-gone-cross-eyed.jpg&f=1

And I just realized that in ep 1 Nathan picks up the torn "Everyday's Heroes" in the bathroom. That's how he knows it was Max who caused the alarm.

If Max hands in that photo (and then saves Chloe as per answers to question 1 in the OP), Nathan will not be able to track Max' involvement, which changes the whole story once more.

But it's the perfect time-line anyway... well apart from everyone dying because of the tornado. Details.