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SmackHeadedWeasel
26th Oct 2015, 12:53
sorry for the bad grammar but here goes.

i wasn't a big fan of the last two choices, i personally wouldn't want to pick either of those two options but then i got to thinking... there's a third option, a way of saving both chloe and arcadia, while getting nathan arrested and leading to jefferson's subsequent arrest.

max travels back through the photograph and while nathan is having his meltdown she interferes and nathan shoots her instead. maybe he kills her, maybe he injures her but in my shoes i'd take that choice. i would rather take the bullet for chloe. if max lives, maybe she ends up disabled (THAT'D put a whole new spin on those things chloe did as well!)

thing is, in the leaked files there was a "Hospital Ending" so i have to assume dontnod decided against it at some point. i really don't get why they did that because there really needs to be a third option in that scenario.


sacrifice arcadia - the town is dead but chloe is alive and you both have all the memories of your time together.
sacrifice chloe - chloe is dead but no-one died from the storm, jefferson was apprehended by the police.
sacrifice max - chloe is alive but doesn't have the memories of max from that week. jefferson is apprehended by the police. max is in hospital, she might be at death's door, a coma or just sleeping.

really i think most people would choose the max option and that doesn't make the other options bad, i really really liked max even more than chloe but if i put myself in max's shoes i would rather be the one to take the sacrifice. it was MY use of time travelling that caused the storm anyway, not chloe.

so picture this scene:

you have your choices but there's another one, sacrifice self. max gets a look on her face and tells chloe the same thing as in the sacrifice chloe ending, that she doesn't want to do this. both share a kiss or hug and chloe thinks max is going back in time to let her die. max has a different idea, she travels back and when nathan starts going crazy at chloe she comes out from behind him and shouts out, surprising nathan, he wheels around and accidentally shoots max instead.

cue foals music, nathan drops his gun in shock, chloe runs up to max who's on the floor with blood coming out of her. chloe realises who it is and you see her shaking her while nathan has his hands over his eyes crying in shock at what he did.

cue pictures:

nathan being pushed away by chloe becomes chloe over max's body while david is arresting nathan in the background
nathan headbutting warren becomes nathan being questioned
max taking a picture of chloe dancing becomes max being taken away by an ambulance while students look on
max and chloe on the train tracks becomes jefferson being arrested
max and chloe in the pool becomes chloe mourning in her car, a cigartte in her hand
max and chloe in the bed becomes max's parents looking over her body in the hospital bed
max hugging chloe becomes chloe talking to max's parents at the hospital
max and chloe hugging at the lighthouse becomes chloe at the lighthouse instead

chloe is finishing her cigarette and glances out over the horizon while looking at max's photos. she walks off and gets in her car then drives to the hospital. walking down the hallway you see some familiar faces, kate and warren, walking out. kate is crying and warren is comforting her. warren nods at chloe. chloe starts running, fade to max's room in the hospital. lots of letters, balloons etc to max from the people at school. chloe walks in the room and goes to take her place in the chair near the window. as she passes the window she sees something out there, she looks out and sees max's spirit animal, the deer, looking towards the window. it seems to be looking directly at her. she looks at max's camera and when she looks back it's disappeared. she turns back to max and moves her chair next to her, slowly pan towards max's unconscious face. there's a slight smile on her face. END

the ending is ambiguous whether max lives or dies and i like that. maybe i'm in denial or whatever that chloe has to die for arcadia to live, but i think this ending could easily work. what say you guys?

KristaD
26th Oct 2015, 13:04
I had a theory about something similar regarding the ending. Maxine sacrificing her own life to save Chloe and Arcadia Bay. When and how this would have happened I got no idea, maybe between the few seconds when Nathan and Chloe enter the bathroom. I would have picked that one first instead of sacrificing Chloe if it would have been available.

Ross42899
26th Oct 2015, 13:13
I was expecting a "Max sacrifices herself" ending as well. I was surprised when this didn't show up as an alternate choice at the end. I guess it might have been planned but cut because of time/budget.

KristaD
26th Oct 2015, 13:19
I think it might be the simplest to make, way fewer moral implications between sacrificing yourself, you best friend / love or the town you live in. I personally belief that I don't have any right to choose if other people live or die, but where as if I live or die is up to me.

Tataboj
26th Oct 2015, 13:19
Perhaps Chloe has to die in the bathroom to prevent the storm. So if Max died, the storm would come anyway. I think that's how the writers invented it (or not? ;) ).

KristaD
26th Oct 2015, 13:33
Perhaps Chloe has to die in the bathroom to prevent the storm. So if Max died, the storm would come anyway. I think that's how the writers invented it (or not? ;) ).

I'll have some doubts about that, given the difference between life or death for Chloe is decided upon if Maxine uses her powers or not, or as an alternative the storm would come regardless of Maxine's actions. (add evil laughter here)

--TIE--
26th Oct 2015, 13:40
I had a theory about something similar regarding the ending. Maxine sacrificing her own life to save Chloe and Arcadia Bay. When and how this would have happened I got no idea, maybe between the few seconds when Nathan and Chloe enter the bathroom. I would have picked that one first instead of sacrificing Chloe if it would have been available.

Max rewind from the storm in to the restroom. She at first sit down can do nothing think thats the only way. Nathan come in, Chloe come in, max hears her voice and cant hold on, she steps out to ambush them both.

Nathan who allready had his gun drawn, scares bcs. he think the restroom was empty and lost his gun. Same scene like he shot chloe and than let his gun go to the ground but this time he didnt shot Chloe allready. The gun drops and accidantley charges. He must preload it bcs. you didnt see he do it before he shots.

The shot hits max...and during she is daying we got an (maybe playable) dialog where we can explain Chloe to left her dead father behind and start to life not to suffer...we can explain her the thing with Frank and Rachel, we can say her where she finds rachel and that jefferson is the badboy...

Over the game we make so much good decissions maybe Max now can feed on them to persuade chloe life is strange but enjoyable.


-Fin-

-> soundtrack for this end...Lera Lynn My Least Favorite Life ~~~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqm6zC6o_44

KristaD
26th Oct 2015, 13:51
I would rather use 306 by Emilie Autumn ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LF3pQQLHxk ) :)

--TIE--
26th Oct 2015, 13:54
I would rather use 306 by Emilie Autumn ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LF3pQQLHxk ) :)

What ever :) if I use my imagination thats MY personal end to the story...


Perhaps Chloe has to die in the bathroom to prevent the storm. So if Max died, the storm would come anyway. I think that's how the writers invented it (or not? ).

And for that in MY ending you can erase the failure or the source Chloe (destiny) or Max (rewind time). Both can end the storm. Or you simply let arcadia bay goes to hell :)

Arcadiagamer
26th Oct 2015, 14:08
I always did think in a Max=Rachel sacrifice herself for Chloe ending.

JohnnyPepsi
26th Oct 2015, 17:04
Max sacrificing herself would solve a lot plot and theme-wise. Why she got the dream in class, why the butterfly showed up, why the storm showed up when Chloe was already dead. Not to mention all this talk about everyday heroes when Max never really displays any heroism.

The thing is... I think they really were going to go for Sacrifice Max ending. In a document that made the rounds not too long ago, there was a file that said "Hospital (Ending 3)." Now, I can't account for the veracity of the leaked document, but the rest of it checks out and it made the rounds before Episode Five came out, so if you ask me if I buy it? Yeah, I do.

Now why didn't they include it? Yeah, there are the much vaunted budget problems, but part of me thinks they didn't include it because, well, everyone would pick it. Now, just because that's an easy mistake to make, doesn't mean it still isn't a mistake. Because, like I said, Max sacrificing herself would solve everything and would make a hell of a lot more sense than sacrificing Chloe, which makes no sense at all. This is just downright immersion-breaking. We aren't confronted with all the choices Max has at her disposal. We have the choices the developer wants us to have, just because they want to make tumblr cry. I guess their short-sightedness is our problem now.

But getting it somewhat back on track, I'd use Mutineer by Jason Isbell and Amanda Shires, myself. Wistful, hopeful, and the lyrics sum up the Max/Chloe dynamic quite well. LINKSKY! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWuWmANBfJw

--TIE--
26th Oct 2015, 18:00
Now why didn't they include it? Yeah, there are the much vaunted budget problems, but part of me thinks they didn't include it because, well, everyone would pick it

Right you can´t or better (couldn´t) make it clear that with your action you sacrifice Max. On my example above the player didnt know that the gun goes loud before he run arround the corner (the intention was to talk, impress the both not to fight at all).

So It could be the last heartbreaker.

You choose to sacrefice Chloe / you got another chance to interact in the szene (maybe hope comes up to dont sacrifice her) / all went wrong in a different way Max die Chloe is alife. BUT not without the ending Dialog where you can set the sparkle of life back in her soul, talk to her from William, Rachel and all this sweet Memories you made during the game. Than realy every decission you made count to save her...

SmackHeadedWeasel
26th Oct 2015, 23:30
words

I agree about a lot of the things you said. I never thought about the Everyday Hero thing wrt Max sacrificing herself but it makes sense too. I also thought to myself that Chloe can't be the source of the storm because in one timeline where she's dead the storm still happens anyway and you must run through the thing in order to find a way to save her!

At the end, before the choice Max even says "This is my storm, I caused all of this!" or something. Max knows it's herself that caused the storm, not Chloe.

As I said, it's in my character but I think it's also in Max's character to take the bullet for Chloe. Throughout the game Max has one thing in mind that trumps everything else, "Save Chloe!" and nothing else matters to her.

iReturnVideotapes
27th Oct 2015, 02:40
I always assumed that Max was going to be the one that died but not in the way you thought. I had it in my head that there wouldn't be a choice who you sacrificed, but that the game would just end with Max rewriting the perfect timeline so that Arcadia Bay could evac the storm, and save Chloe from her fate, but it would come at the cost of her re-writing history for one final time causing a brain haemorrhage/aneurysm. The game kind of paved the road for it with the multiple blackouts and bloody noses. I didn't think she'd manage to survive it in the end. Then cut to the funeral scene with Chloe wearing a very grown up dress in her natural hair color holding Joyce with the songs "Smother" or "Tomorrow" by Daughter playing in the background.

JohnnyPepsi
27th Oct 2015, 07:30
I agree about a lot of the things you said. I never thought about the Everyday Hero thing wrt Max sacrificing herself but it makes sense too. I also thought to myself that Chloe can't be the source of the storm because in one timeline where she's dead the storm still happens anyway and you must run through the thing in order to find a way to save her!

At the end, before the choice Max even says "This is my storm, I caused all of this!" or something. Max knows it's herself that caused the storm, not Chloe.

As I said, it's in my character but I think it's also in Max's character to take the bullet for Chloe. Throughout the game Max has one thing in mind that trumps everything else, "Save Chloe!" and nothing else matters to her.

Another thing a Sacrifice Max ending could have solved that the Sacrifice Chloe ending didn't is that with the sacrifice Chloe ending, Max's character doesn't arc. Yeah, she went through some stuff, yeah she's sad, but she's still the same person. Still running around like a chicken with her head cut off trying to fix every last possible mistake. At least with the Sacrifice Arcadia Bay ending (although "ending" is a bit rich, more like "glorified easter egg"), we can at least see that Max has matured enough to convince herself that she should stop breaking stuff to fix other stuff.

Some might say to me that the player character in a choice-driven game can't have an arc, being that Max is basically a vessel for us, like Lee Everett in The Walking Dead. But ignore the fact that they're in the same genre, and its an apples and oranges comparison.

The difference between Lee and Max is the same difference between Commander Shepard and Geralt of Rivia. Shepard and Lee are extensions of the player. We know a little bit about their backgrounds for texture's sake, and that's it. They don't know anything we don't know. They only say what we say, they only do what we do.

Geralt and Max, on the other hand, are characters in and of themselves. They have tastes we haven't given them, background info that they themselves have to tell us, and opinions on our actions that we may not share. Have Max take the heat for Chloe's pot in Episode One, or take the handicapped fund in Episode Three and see what she says. She has no way to justify these actions to herself. You, the player are making Max, the character do something she very clearly does not want to do.

Lee and Shepard are avatars. Max and Geralt are characters, and characters need to arc if they're going to anchor a story. Dontnod could have had the tragic ending they wanted so desperately, and Max the character could have arced, if she stepped in front of a bullet to save her friend.

unnamed_soldier
27th Oct 2015, 08:31
I still don't get it. I thouht that Max has power to go back in time trought the photo. Max could simply spend her life with Chloe and after years go back in the time and change it. Problem solved.

Tataboj
27th Oct 2015, 09:53
I still don't get it. I thouht that Max has power to go back in time trought the photo. Max could simply spend her life with Chloe and after years go back in the time and change it. Problem solved.

Yeah, and when 80 years old Max goes through the photo, she realizes she spent her whole life with Warren... And now she lost all the moments with him.

KristaD
27th Oct 2015, 10:01
Yeah, and when 80 years old Max goes through the photo, she realizes she spent her whole life with Warren... And now she lost all the moments with him.

Yeah, that would quite a story, the senile time traveler. :)

RagdollZombie
30th Oct 2015, 10:25
Now this isn't a bad idea at all. I think it could work. I believe the reason the storm started was because of Max using the rewind, its not Chloe's fault, max first started the rewind when Chloe got shot. ...... If only I had decent animating skills, I'd try to make an animation for this lol :P

I think it could have been put into the "sacrifice chloe" path as another choice (although i still think the sacrifice arcadia ending should have been longer and more fleshed out).

As max is waiting in the bathroom while Chloe and Nathan are talking, maybe there could be an option to intervene or not intervene, and without the time pause so that you'd have to choose before Chloe gets shot. And if you do Intervene then max wouldn't use her rewind, but she'd step in and interrupt Nathan, possibly getting shot instead of Chloe but maybe she survives and that becomes that rumored "Hospital Ending".

--TIE--
30th Oct 2015, 11:58
And if you do Intervene then max wouldn't use her rewind, but she'd step in and interrupt Nathan, possibly getting shot instead of Chloe but maybe she survives and that becomes that rumored "Hospital Ending".

Maybe the chance to got not shooten is calculatet from you decision over the game. If you are the white knight the chance ist low (like saving Kate, dont allow Chloe to steal the money, sign the petition) on the other way if you act like a brat die like a rat...or so...

Tataboj
30th Oct 2015, 12:23
Maybe the chance to got not shooten is calculatet from you decision over the game. If you are the white knight the chance ist low (like saving Kate, dont allow Chloe to steal the money, sign the petition) on the other way if you act like a brat die like a rat...or so...

You're calling me a rat because I couldn't save Kate?! :'(

--TIE--
30th Oct 2015, 14:56
You're calling me a rat because I couldn't save Kate?! :'(

In this way I am a rat too :) but it´s sum of all your choices not only the one about kate.

RagdollZombie
4th Jan 2016, 00:10
I've sort of made this into a little animation project... :D

rabia_moro
4th Jun 2016, 18:11
I don't think it's really better to sacrifice max. then chloe looses william, rachel and now max. that would be horrible. then she would be right about everybody leaving her.