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View Full Version : "All your actions will have consequences" Endings by Malkav0



Happy172
23rd Oct 2015, 14:22
First of all, this fanfic is not mine, it belongs to Malkav0 from Steam community. I read the whole thing and absolutely love it. So i want to share his/her work and hope you guys like it.
Here's the link http://steamcommunity.com/app/319630/discussions/0/490123938427543245/


Ok ladies and gentlemen, I'll do a precise summary and explanation of what should have been shown in the Save Chloe Ending, based on the belief that the player choices should have mattered, which is exactly what Dontnod sold to many of us (I understand you can be satisfied with things how they are, it's fine, I don't think you are "wrong" so please refrain to tell people who feel betrayed they are "wrong", it's also perfectly valid given what the game achieved before episode 5).

So apparently if you make certain choices, you can get this ending instead. (This is an edit I made, by the way)
a small edit for the Max and Chloe kiss scene in the Save Chloe Ending, which made me realize that, beside of complaining and even explaining why, we could also try and "fix" things while staying balanced and realist for what the game is and the event that took place, trying to not imply absurd things or just cray wishes. The kiss fits perfectly fine before the tearing of the photo, and I thought to myself tht ending, with kiss or not, would be even more fitting with some additions (because it lacks much), since in the other ending we reset everything, this one should have make it double count. I tried to envision them and make accurate, balanced, satisfying or punishing depending on your choices (and add replay value maybe). I've been very vocal about how it would not have been too hard to make a 4-6 endings system based on choice, another alternative is the one I'll submit to you, and is even easier, creating dozens of combinations in one ending with not too much costs (small parts of scenes) and as you'll see, not too much writing (if I could do it, they could).

First, I'll review the choices in the game to explain what is already accounted for and what will be kept for the ending, either as a major effect or a small easter egg.

Episode 1:
- Let Daniel Draw: it has already a small effect in game, I'll be keeping this choice for a specific situation

-Sign the petition: it's already taken into account in game dialogs

-Help Alyssa: one out of 4 taken into account in episode 5 to have a easier time saving Alyssa

-Erase Kate's board: taken into account in Kate event

-Water the plant: taken into account in Lisa's state

-Pregnancy test: taken into account in your relationship with Dana

-Mess Victoria's photos: taken into account in your relationship with Victoria

-Draw on the camping car window: referenced each time you see the RV. I'll keep this for an easter egg

-Save the bird: you see the bird later

-Break the snow-thing: referenced in dialogs already if it's broken

-Leave marks in the garage: referenced in dialogs already

-Read files: referenced in dialogs already


-Tell the truth about Nathan: already influences several situations in the game. Will be used for a counter-intuitive combination

-Confort/taunt Victoria: taken into account in your relationship with Victoria

-Help Kate: taken into account in Kate event

-Stand for Chloe: taken into account in your relationship with Chloe



Episode 2:
-Water the plant: taken into account in Lisa's state

-Help Alyssa: one out of 4 taken into account in episode 5 to have a easier time saving Alyssa

-Erase the link: taken into account in Kate event

-Be nice to Taylor: taken into account in your relationship with Taylor, it will have an effect though

-Accept/refuse to go ape: taken into account in your relationship with Warren

-Leave a message in the junkyard: already referenced in episode 5 with a creepy change. I'll keep it for an easter egg

-Mess up the rails: already referenced in dialogs. I'll keep it for a minor but touching change

-Be invited to the party: already taken into account in solving an episode 4 part

-Help Warren for his schoolwork: already referenced in dialogs. I'd be giving this a weight in the relationship, if it's not already the case.

-Tell about David to Jefferson: already referenced in dialogs, specificly when framing Jefferson for the Kate event


-Tell Kate to go to the police: taken into account in Kate event

-Take Kate's call: taken into account in Kate event (and Chloe relationship)

-"Shoot" Frank: taken into account in Frank event, Chloe relationship, having a gun or not in episode 3

-Save Kate: has many effects already, but is extremely important, will have effects in the ending

-Frame Jefferson/David/Nathan: already impacts several situations and dialogs. Will be used for a counter-intuitive combination



Episode 3
-Lisa is alive/dead: will be kept for an easter egg

-"Help" Warren for his schoolwork: already referenced in dialogs. I'd be giving this a weight in the relationship, if it's not already the case.

-Erase names from the list: already has a small (funny) effect during episode 4

-Be on the list: already taken into account in solving an episode 4 part

-Erase the cops' message: already referenced in SMS and maybe dialogs

-Help Alyssa: one out of 4 taken into account in episode 5 to have a easier time saving Alyssa

-Warn the old lady: effect can be seen during the episode 5, this will be kept for a small change in the ending

-Take a shot in the past: this will be kept for an easter egg

-Drawing in the past: is alerady a small easter egg, and is lost when you go back and reverse things


-Steal the money: taken into account in your relationship with Chloe, and is referenced in some dialogs/situation. Besides, the school is lost if the town is destroyed

-Stand for David/Chloe: taken into account in situations, dialogs, and in episode 5 effect. Will be relevant for the ending but only after an action in episode 5

-Hurt the dog or not: taken into account in Frank event, but will have a slight change in the ending in some situations

-Chloe has a gun or Frank has it: taken into account in Frank event



Episode 4:
-Save the bird: will be kept for an easter egg

-Mess with the nest: already referenced by Joyce in a SMS I think, but will be kept for an easter egg

-Code for David's locker: is just a riddle-solving indicator, about the way people found

-Kate helped for the room: is just is just a riddle-solving indicator, about the way people found, and an addition provided by the hospital scene if you talk more to Kate

-Make Daniel go to the party: already referenced in the said party but will be kept for a specific situation

-Change Warren's board message: taken into account in your relationship with Warren

-Nathan's phone code: is just a riddle-solving indicator, about the way people found

-Help Alyssa: one out of 4 taken into account in episode 5 to have a easier time saving Alyssa


-Grant Chloe's wish: already referenced in dialogs later in episode 5, and is only a moral choice, interesting to see people feeling about the situation

-Stop Warren from beating up Nathan: already referenced in dialogs. Will be used for a counter-intuitive combination

-Befriend/hurt/kill Frank: will have major effect in ending

-Victoria believed you or not (or wasn't warned): will have major effect in ending



Episode 5:
-David is hurt: is just a riddle-solving indicator, about the way people found

-Killed Jefferson: already referenced in dialogs but will have a minor change in the ending, almost easter egg

-Save the trucker: will have an effect

-Save Evan: will have an effect

-Save Alyssa: will have an effect

-Save the fisherman: will have an effect

-Made Joyce change her mind: will have an effect

-Tell Frank the truth: will have an effect

-Sign of affection to Warren: taken into account in your relationship with Warren



In addition to these points, two thing will have small effects, your relationship with Chloe and with Warren, you can be friend to both, be in love with Chloe, or give Warren a chance. Based on what I read and to not force things on people, the relationship would go as follow:
-Be in love with Chloe rely on the fact you're on her phone, which needs (as it is already in the game) 3 facts out of 4: stand for her for the weed, not taking Kate's call, "shoot" Frank, steal the money. In addition, the relationship would be possible only if you kissed her.
-Open your heart to Warren would rely on several actions: accept his invitation, help him for the experiment, cheat for his grade, change his board in the dorms, kiss him before the last photojump. In addition, the kiss option is available only if you took the course of actions before it and if you're not in love with Chloe.

First scene is in front of the Price house, crushed for the most part, the garage having just the roof ripped:
-If Frank died or was injured, the scene is empty
-If Frank became a friend, Joyce will be in front, safe, and Chloe will walk and hug her while Max is a little behind. If they're in love, they'll hold hands while walking
-If Joyce has forgiven David or they were in good terms, David will be here and will look at Chloe tenderly, moving a hand behind her head, and she'll turn her head and smile at him in forgiveness. If not, he won't be here
-In addition, if the dog was not hurt, Frank will be here with the dog and after the hug with Joyce, Chloe will walk at him and briefly hug him, thankfully implying that he helped Joyce during the storm
-If you also told him the truth about Rachel, after the brief hug, Max will walk toward him and reach his shoulder with a hand and he'll look dawn, sad, but he will have a huge backpack next to him, implying he will be starting a new life elsewhere
-As an easter egg, if you left a drawing on the RV, he will wear a T-shirt with the same face, with the message "I'm clean now", a reference to his choice of becoming someone better
-Regardless of these events, the nest will be seen here in a distance, near the garage entrance as an easter egg. If it was left protected by the plank, it will still have some sort of shelter from it (a bit changed, by the wind but still) and the eggs will crack as the mother bird watch over them. If not, the nest will be seen crushed under the plank
To introduce these events, some SMS text will appear when you get out of the nightmare in episode 5, assuming they were before the lines broke:
Always some texts to Joyce and Warren, and some texts to Frank he became a friend, but sad answers if his dog was hurt. Angry texts from him if he was hurt. No text if he and his dog were hurt. Texts from David in any case, with worries.



Second scene is in the hospital, with a different number of room (on the same model the one has Kate) are seen from the side, from the entrance of each, moving slowly:
-First room is Kate, her family around her, smiling
-Second room would be Joyce if Frank didn't become a friend, with light bandages. David would be here if she forgave him. Regardless of his presence, Chloe is seen in the hallway with Max, leaving a letter on a chair, not feeling brave enough to enter, sad but relieved. If they're in love, Max holds her hand. She type a text with the other hand, as Joyce recieve it immediatly, she smiles and cries a little ; if David is here, he then smiles too as she looks at him, both with love.
-Third room would be Warren, if Frank didn't become a friend, he is seen with a broken leg. If Max opened her heart to him, she follows the camera and enter his room, getting close to him and reaches for his hand, as they both smile to each other ; the camera holds a bit as if they're talking briefly, then she leaves, walking backward, smiling at him.
-Fourth room would be Frank if he was hurt but his dog was fine, or if he became a friend but his dog was hurt. He is seen with a broken arm, holding a picture of Rachel in his valid hand and his dog sitting next to him, or a picture of Rachel and his dog if the dog was hurt, implying the dog died. In either case he is seen sad, shedding some tears. The picture can be seen when his arm falls on the bed.
-Fifth room would be Victoria, if she wasn't or couldn't be warned. She is seen injured to an eye, implying she lost it. Her parents are here but she looks bitter.
-Sixth room would be Nathan, injured to the head, guarded by 2 cops, handcuffed to the bed. He would be seen here only if a counter-intuitive course of event has been followed: not reporting him, not accusing him, not letting him be beaten badly. If Victoria wasn't hurt, she'll be seen leaving his room, bitter and sad. His father will be seen in front, access denied by the cops, and Nathan will look the other way, in pain, angered about his father and himself, facing his acts by then bending his head and crying, crushing a photo of Rachel in his hand, out of guilt.

The rooms are in this order if they're all occupied, but there is no empty room to be seen if one may be skipped. If Kate is dead, Frank a friend and the dog not hurt, Victoria warned and Nathan destiny sealed, the scene is skipped entirely.
To introduce these events, slight changes would be made in episode 5. If Nathan is to be seen in a room, a dialog with Jefferson changes slightly, saying that he couldn't reach him because of Max actions, leading Nathan to turn to his father in anger and fear for his acts. Some SMS text will appear when you get out of the nightmare in episode 5, assuming they were before the lines broke:
A text from Kate if she is alive, stating the hospital is far enough from the tornado but she is worried for Max and the others. A text from Victoria is she wasn't warned or could not be warned, stating she is in troubles, angered at Max if they're in a really bad relationship (like "why am I here instead of you"), or just fearfull if they're fine enough. Some text from Nathan if he is to be seen here, stating he won't ever forgive himself, he will face what he has done, sad that he's feel used by everybody, and somehow thanking Max for going easy on him while he doesn't deserve it.

Third scene is at Blackwell Academy dorms, the building having been strong enough to stand, while badly damaged:
-Coming out of the small room of Samuel will be ... Samuel, with squirells. If the old lady was warned, she'll come out behind him, implying she found shelter here and she somehow knew Samuel a bit.
-Coming out of the dorms will always be Mrs Grant, with a field helmet and carrying health materials, implying she took the safety in charge here during the storm, directing fleeing people to safety. A few elements around will support this, like message roughly painted on some walls and tree, showing a way to the dorms. She's followed by the principal. After them will come out Justin, Trevor and Dana, while grudges seem to have disappear, Justin giving a pat in the back of Trevor and both smiling, Trevor holding Dana's hand. Then will come, quickly, Logan, Zack, Juliet (holding Zack's hand) and Luke. Daniel and Brooke come then ; if you let Daniel draw your portrait, convince him to go to the party and ruined Brooke's chance with Warren by accepting his invitation to go ape, they will be slightly closer and will look at each other, embarassed.
-If you have been nice to Taylor, she then comes out, helping an injured Courtney to walk
-If you saved Evan, Alyssa, the trucker or the fisherman, any of them alive will come out.
To introduce this, some SMS text will appear when you get out of the nightmare in episode 5, assuming they were before the lines broke:
Evan and Alyssa texting a thank, if they're meant to be alive. Taylor receiving a text of warning from Max, with a cut answer.

Fourth scene is very brief, showing the crushed barn from above, a cop car being parked here. If you got Jefferson killed by David, he will be seen crushed by a tree, seemingly in an attempt to flee, and a medical vehicle will be here. Else 2 cops will be seen putting him in the car.

Fifth scene is the cemetarry, with a a camera moving facing some tombstones. Like the hospital, their number is linked to events:
-First would be Kate, her family grieving around
-Second would be Rachel. On the grave can be seen blue flowers and a wooly cap, implying Chloe left them. In addition, if Frank is alive, a single rose lies on the top on the grave with dogtags. Ultimately, if Rachel's grave is the only one to be seen, if both Frank and his dog are safe, if Victoria wasn't injured and if casualties are minimal (see further), Rachel can be seen as ghostly silhouette behind her grave, smiling, a blue butterfly landing next to the rose, making a link with the other ending, implying things happened the best they could, with minimum casualities, and that it is why Max was given a chance to act.
-Third grave would be Alyssa
-Fourth grave would be Evan
-Taylor and Courtney would be dead too if you were not friend with taylor, implying small change has big consequences, as the game demonstrated
-Fifth grave would be a little further and would be Frank if he was killed or if both he and his dog were hurt, implying that if his dog was fine it helped him to survive
-Sixth and seventh graves would be closeby, for the trucker and the fisherman, one having a truck metal emblem lying on it, the other a fishing hook.
-Eighth sign would be even further, a bit isolated, and more a crypt entrance, the crypt of the Prescott. All that could be seen is a plate at the entrance with the name of Nathan. If Victoria wasn't injured, she would be seen here, eyes closed, looking angry and bitter, fist firmly closed. If Kate died, she would then turn head in this direction and shed a tear, then releasing fist, letting go a picture in the mud near a bush of her and Nathan, and she would then turn away and leave.

Final scene is the one we see in the original ending, with slight changes:
-Before fading to this scene, a brief scene in the junkyard will be shown if you wrote a message on the wall. The creepy change Jefferson made will have been altered and it will state, about Chloe and Max "forever together" and for Rachel "forever with us"
-If the rails had been damaged, a train will be among the ruins (increasing the casualities)
-If the dog was hurt, a partially covered body of an injured dead dog would be seen next to the Two Whales
-Several easter egg would be seen here: if Lisa is alive, it would be tied in the back of the truck. If Kate died, a cage covered with a heavy blanket is also tied in the back of the truck. If the bird was saved twice, it will land briefly on the truck when it stops in front of the town sign. If a picture was taken in the past, it will be stuck in front of Chloe in the car, when the camera goes in
-If Frank became a friend, Warren will be here instead of the hospital, near the exit of the town, probably called by Max. If he's just a friend they will just show sign of talking through the window, Warren probably relieved to see her safe and wishing her the best, if they're in a relationship, they will kiss through the window while Chloe smiles briefly. Regardless, Warren then starts to walk into the town again
-If Chloe and Max are friend, the final moves don't change, but if they are in love, instead of just smiling, Max reach for Chloe's arm and move her head to her shoulder, tenderly
-The page of a journal would be carried by the wind and fall on the side of the road as the car leaves, and the camera would show the title about the storm, with 5 variations from "severe casualties for an E6 tornado" to "exceptionnaly low casualties for an E6 tornado", decided upon the status of the train, the number of characters' death and those injured, reminding the fact that a missing or injured person could have helped many other if healthy
-A final addition would be, further, the car on a road and a sign showing " To Seattle" (thanks to a fan ending about their relationship for the idea)

Duration would be around ten minutes great maximum.

Here you go, you have here what I consider my ending, regardless of what the devs did (or did not do in fact). Probably everything is not exactly perfectly set (maybe I'm missing texts or setups needed to introduce some event but I think I was accurate enough).
It took me about 3-4 hours to list interesting choices, establish the sceneries, write them accurately, check that it made sense. It also demonstrate that it was perfectly possible to think it out, provided Dontnod didn't want to be cliché or depress many people as way as deny some the care they took in their choices. Ressources needed to actually implement this ending are:
-designing the Price house after the storm
-using some character models for Kate's family and maybe 2 additionnal cops, and Nathan's father (the hospital room exists already, they don't have to be very different and the hallway is generic)
-designing the damages to the dorms, but not too much assuming it was still a strong building, and the messages painted roughly around
-exploiting a bit more the cemetary scenery used for the other ending, to allow for the close up view of tombstones, and designing a crypt entrance for the prescotts.
-finishing a model for Rachel ?
-modifying a bit the existing scene for the train wrecked, the dead dog, the small easter eggs, the move from Max to Chloe, the Titles journal page
-adding the "to seattle part"

It's not exactly "nothing" but it's not really a huge task, given they recycled a lot of material for the rest of episode 5 (ok, the town trashed is impressive though, the plane and San Francisco's gallery are cool). Honestly I would have waited an additionnal month for such an ending.

The other ending could use additions too, to be closer to this level of closure. A few things, because since it cancels all our decision except Max's knowledge, there would be fewer variations.
Still, for the second ending, I would add:
-Max holding the hand of Warren if she opened her heart to him
And after the burial:
-Brief scenes of: Frank crying while driving his RV to leave town, a picture of Rachel and Chloe in front of him, overwhelmed with sadness and guilt (not everything is nice by saving Arcadia Bay) ; a view of blackwell with all known students, practicing activities (Daniel drawing if you discovered his talent and just sitting if you didn't, Alyssa dodging a ball if you helped her more than 2 times or getting hit if you didn't, Evan taking a shot of squirells if you had saved him or reviewing his portfolio if you didn't, Taylor and Courtney offering a jacket to Kate if you were in good terms with Taylor or being embarassed from afar if you weren't) ; David at the Two Whales with Joyce and Max (and Warren if she opened her heart to him), viewing some photos, Max getting out to bring food to the old lady if you warned her during the game ; Victoria in the gallery with Max, implying a better relationship, if Max discovered her good side during the game, or Max alone, to stay positive, implying she managed to submit her shot in the end
As you see, even if I worked less on this part (because I'm less motivated and I'm getting tired), this is still some nice additions and it would have retained some of our choice, not based on consequences but on Max's knowledge. I think it could make a very decent ending too.

I found no good way to imply that, in both case, in my view, Max loses her powers after the storm/last photojump. (And it's only my point of view ^^)


As I put a lot of energy and thoughts in it, for once, I'd really like the feedback of people here in the forum. Not in a bitter approach of the existing endings, not either in a fanboy approach of the existing endings, but just comparatively, if you find it relevant or not, more satisfying or not, promising or not. Thanks in advance to remain polite to each other =)


"From Malkav0 to DONTNOD"


Last words are for you Dontnod, Scott if you read me, any devs coming by here: I understand what I suggest here is not assured to be perfect (but I tried hard) and what the writing wanted to tell originally is far darker. I understand, too, that ressources and time could have been an issue (but it would have really been worth it to wait for endings that feel really complete). I just want you to understand that I and many others did not want a lecture on time-travel (Jefferson style) or a desperate situation. Not because we can't handle it but because you were making a game, not a movie. You made many of us believe our choices would have true consequences, not just the final one, and we felt failled, betrayed. We can find as many of sad ending as we want in movies, but having the ability to take the course of action in hands is the exclusivity of games. A game with a rich gameplay aims to be entertaining by action and often follow a unique path. A game with a rich story and/or very few gameplay elements bring something else to the player, most of the time it challenges his brain to solve riddles or master some mechanisms. You created a game that brought something none other had before, not like that, something unique. Something that was feeling like a revolution. And it wasn't, just because of ending issue, denying player acts, making him/her feel not like a player, not like a game but a hand-tied displaying of movie, and using in the end a great cliché already used in the genre. Many people had seen it coming, making jokes on the forums, and I'm sure you saw it. I believe in your talent, you people at Dontnod, and my guess is that you couldn't afford to make big changes at that time. But see, what I suggested seems doable. I believe you were hand-tied, but in case you were not, let me say you this, the greatest courage and intellect of an artist is needed when he/she has to give up on an idea that turns out to be bland, and has to start again fresh.

KristaD
23rd Oct 2015, 14:39
I'll just use a string of my fav. words for this : Damn Interesting Stuff!

Lehkeri
23rd Oct 2015, 14:39
I really love this.

ET_Red
23rd Oct 2015, 15:28
Great ideas. Wish such a thing would have been in the actual game.

Lehkeri
23rd Oct 2015, 20:45
Great ideas. Wish such a thing would have been in the actual game.

And I'd guess adding something like this wouldn't be so expensive either.

Malkav0
23rd Oct 2015, 21:12
Thanks for the re-post ^^
Please don't hesitate to give me feedback, for now it's all been positive. Dontnod team, if you happen to come by here, your opinion would be appreciated too =) Working on this helped me to make peace with the game and the endings that hurt my feelings as a player who thought he mattered in the end, and I thought it could help others too. Because I cared as much as you about the game, the story, the characters... I felt it needed more closure and brighter notes actually depending on your actions.
See ya !

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 09:21
I could use a bit more feedback from here ^^

CrystalXPredator
24th Oct 2015, 09:35
I could use a bit more feedback from here ^^

My feedback is the first time I read this I said "wait what did I actually play episode 5 or is that an update that will coming soon?"
I mean it reads like it is actual in the game and I just missed something I almost wanted to restart my savegame. ^^

But really you did an amazing job how the consequences are reflecting your choices you made.
I can't find any negatives what I would hate maybe I just don't see them but I like it.

Thank you sir. ^^

P.S. GIVE THAT MAN/GIRL A MEDAL HE/SHE DESERVE'S IT!!!!!! :-)

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 09:36
For me its hard to say anything other then "pefect"

you made such a good work with it I fully agree with everything.

Your choice to not take a view about max power (gone or not) is also perfect. That´s what I say with "...the ending shouldn´t go arround the negetiv aspects of timealtering, it should go arround relationships..." and that theme you perfectly work out with your ending.

The ending, in my eye´s, shuold some questions left unanswered and if max loose his power´s or not is such an perfect question for each players imagination. For me I think she loose it too, but a smal part of me think...no...its a part of her life and maybe the clifhanger for a secend episode (I know they state out if comes a second episode than with other acteuers). But a clifhanger is a clifhanger and never say never :)

CrystalXPredator
24th Oct 2015, 09:39
For me its hard to say anything other then "pefect"

you made such a good work with it I fully agree with everything.

Your choice to not take a view about max power (gone or not) is also perfect. That´s what I say with "...the ending shouldn´t go arround the negetiv aspects of timealtering, it should go arround relationships..." and that theme you perfectly work out with your ending.

The ending, in my eye´s, shuold some questions left unanswered and if max loose his power´s or not is such an perfect question for each players imagination. For me I think she loose it too, but a smal part from me think...no...its a part of her life and maybe the clifhanger for a secend episode (I know they state out if comes a second episode than with other acteuers). But a clifhanger is a clifhanger and never say never :)

R.i.P my heart, I got a heartattack well spoken either. :O
Now I need some tissues :'(

I am also fully agree.

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 09:43
Thx :friends: -> give tissues to CrystalXPredator :D

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 09:51
Wow thank you Tie !
CrystalXPredator I actually laughed out of pride and emotion reading your comment, I couldn't hope for a better reaction reading this ending, as it was the feeling I had while writing =)) In my mind all these scenes are now true and visualised, and I owe to Dontnod that their story, universe, characters are so solid, so great, so perfectly realised and set that I can easily see accurately all of this even though there's no footage of it.
Like I said on steam forum, it helped me make peace ^^

CrystalXPredator
24th Oct 2015, 10:01
Thx :friends: -> give tissues to CrystalXPredator :D

Thank you I really need them. :friends:


Wow thank you Tie !
CrystalXPredator I actually laughed out of pride and emotion reading your comment, I couldn't hope for a better reaction reading this ending, as it was the feeling I had while writing =)) In my mind all these scenes are now true and visualised, and I owe to Dontnod that their story, universe, characters are so solid, so great, so perfectly realised and set that I can easily see accurately all of this even though there's no footage of it.
Like I said on steam forum, it helped me make peace ^^

So does it to me as well. I really appreciate what you've done. Just WOW I can't say anything more than just amazeballs :)
:cheek:

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 10:36
Wow thank you Tie !

I have to say thank you.


it helped me make peace ^^

+1

The curse with perfect things is ppl dont talk about it they "only" standing in front of it and are speechless *g*

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 10:43
That's what I felt in front of a number of games ^^ The sense of closure is incredible when it happens

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 10:57
The last game that give me that feeling was "Dishonored" I dont judge the system behind the game bcs. some ppl say its to easy and such things but hey rewind time and do it again is simply too...so differnt playstyles same mechanic.

The real scope behind Dishonored is with your decissions and actions during the game you build up the new world order bcs. the child from the dead empress watchs you. If you simply kill all targets she get evil too, think execution is the only way to deal with opponents and her empire sinks in chaos afte she are old enought to got the throne. And you see this coming if you talk to her over the game. From a naive child she becomes an evil child who allready ask you to kill someone. On the other hand if you are mercyfull over your journey she, in the very end is too.

And there are 3 or 4 different Endings who realy depend on how you play the game. Maniacal Killer to "polite persuader". No questions you handle things, definitive and finally but you had ever the choice how you do it. Kill or send to prison, kill or blame and so on. Most reviews about this game also didnt mention it...but this is to offtopic here.

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 11:58
The last game that give me that feeling was "Dishonored" I dont judge the system behind the game bcs. some ppl say its to easy and such things but hey rewind time and do it again is simply too...so differnt playstyles same mechanic.

The real scope behind Dishonored is with your decissions and actions during the game you build up the new world order bcs. the child from the dead empress watchs you. If you simply kill all targets she get evil too, think execution is the only way to deal with opponents and her empire sinks in chaos afte she are old enought to got the throne. And you see this coming if you talk to her over the game. From a naive child she becomes an evil child who allready ask you to kill someone. On the other hand if you are mercyfull over your journey she, in the very end is too.

And there are 3 or 4 different Endings who realy depend on how you play the game. Maniacal Killer to "polite persuader". No questions you handle things, definitive and finally but you had ever the choice how you do it. Kill or send to prison, kill or blame and so on. Most reviews about this game also didnt mention it...but this is to offtopic here.

This is actually a good point to bring, regarding game design =) I really loved the intent behind "Dishonored", it was really well crafted and, kind of justified. It's a very good reference. The game Dontnod is currently developping, Vampyr, looks EXTREMLY promising and they have started to advertise that your behaviour and choices will matter in it. I don't recommand to copy what Dishonored did, but it's a good example to keep in mind !

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 13:29
I hope they got the time to fully develop Vampyr...not like this one.


I don't recommand to copy what Dishonored did, but it's a good example to keep in mind !

Yeha right. I dont want a handfull of Dishonored clones out there but the Idear behind it was nice. During my "High Chaos" playthought from Dishonored I hate myself bcs. the girl wents bad too and such things are a good yardstick about if a game does it right or wrong...anyway I only played the high chaos thing to see all differend endings and I am glad the game give´s me the choice to do it and the motivation to go thorugh all lvl´s again.

And other than LIS they satisfy me with only ONE painted picture thats reflects the choices you made during the playthroug so it didnt need much for a "good feeling" LIS made it terribly wrong.

Only for those ppl who came up with the argument: Dishonored AAA / LIS niche product at the end its only one graphic.

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 22:38
Unfortunately, not provoking controversy or arguments doesn't make threads visible >< Although it receives positive feedback here, on Steam forum and on reddit, it hasn't enough visibility because, well, there's not much to discuss for now, it's mostly praised =))
As a consequence, I struggle a bit to keep it active, but I hope it lifts off and reach the devs.

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 23:05
It´s right but I dont know how to bring more attention on this problem. The dev´s simply ignore it (I think) and state their ending was good, good enought to let it like it was if I reed this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lifeisstrange/comments/3pj5xu/ep5_spoilers_michel_koch_about_one_of_the_endings/

The petition goes up...we are arround 3k sign´s in 24h or so. So maybe until the next few days we reach a remarkable line. But if then nothing happen and noone from dontnod or square enix had an Idear how to make this enthusiasm to money I think it´s over. Money talks but if a publisher let such an nice way to milk a game unnoticed...its a bad sign.

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 23:11
Well, the answer was specificly about the Max/Chloe romance, but the edit that inspired me show that the kiss fits perfectly BEFORE shredding the photo... So even when answering officialy, devs are sure not perfect. And it's logical. Do you see Michel Koch saying "sorry we were in a dead end time and ressource-wise and I'm honestly sorry and disappointed we couldn't deliver more" ? Even if it were the case, it's a very dangerous stance for business. You can just not face the world and admit you did not do what you wanted, because then you also screw your team and, mostly, your publisher.

--TIE--
24th Oct 2015, 23:20
Even if it were the case, it's a very dangerous stance for business. You can just not face the world and admit you did not do what you wanted, because then you also screw your team and, mostly, your publisher.

Yes sure I allready think the same like I say earlyer in the "Dev´s so quit" Thread.


If it right and they state it during the NYCC I think thats the truth. Now after the episode it´s out they try to lower the damage and maybe are contractual bond to "official" comment´s like stay loyal with your employer.

And its also right that the statement ist "only" about the romance but some part´s of it wont fit in the whole picture they paint wiht 4 more episodes. Between the lines I read, sorry we are running out of money and time and bcs. that the end is good like it is! EVEN its not realy my thought but it had to be good bcs. we are done with it. Continued excluded...

Malkav0
24th Oct 2015, 23:25
Yeah I understand that statement, it does not deliver the reason but it does deliver the feeling that it cannot be helped.

--TIE--
25th Oct 2015, 00:15
I hope I am wrong!:rolleyes:

PalatineKatinka
25th Oct 2015, 00:59
If they ever decided it was worth revisiting this game, tweaking a few moments here and there and packaging it up in a pretty box with an artbook I'd by it again for 2-3 times what the game costs.

--TIE--
25th Oct 2015, 10:02
The game wasn´t realy expensive so yes I will at least spend the same amount of money again for a better ending (upgradet Sacrefice Arcadia ending). If they make a directors cut or like you said physical enhancment (maybe Bigfoot Caps, big picstureprints from the Art, or a American Flag in Chloe style, The Soundtrack...or such stuff) I will give much more money. DNOTNOD READ THIS NOW AND TAKE MY MONEY! :) if square enix allows you :)

Malkav0
25th Oct 2015, 10:12
You know, honestly I'm beginning to think this does not make enough noise to be noticed. I don't think it can be helped in the state it is. But I think we could make a demonstration, it would be much more impactfull. Something people can watch would be more accessible than reading the whole process. I saw the fanproject "love is strange" for romance options, and I think that kind of representation (visual novel, meaning only drawn pictures) would work. What would be needed is one artist and one programmer, since I already did the architecture of the events.
The work of the artist would be a bit tough but do-able for someone a bit talented, it's basically drawing a picture for each of the variations. So then we can arrange them with orders and triggers. I can summarize and organize what exactly would be needed to remain as simple as possible.
The work of the programmer would be to 1) extract the choices value from game save files and be able compile them as variables 2) create a small exe to handle these variables 3) link the pictures to variables in this exe and make it a nice slideshow, along with the layout design from the artist
If some of you can handle this or know people who would, my work is totally free, as long as it is not severly altered or at least we can discuss alterations and come to agreement ^^

--TIE--
25th Oct 2015, 22:21
Sadly yes. Maybe the handwritten letters had an impact...if the petition reach 10k? Its a good base to give kickstarter a try if they would. But I realy realy fear they are done with it mentaly and operativley. They allready work on "Vampyr".

Sometimes to be nice only dont give the real impact to change something.

I can give some money but dont have any prgramming or drawing skills by myself and dont know someone who can help.

CrystalXPredator
25th Oct 2015, 23:00
Sadly yes. Maybe the handwritten letters had an impact...if the petition reach 10k? Its a good base to give kickstarter a try if they would. But I realy realy fear they are done with it mentaly and operativley. They allready work on "Vampyr".

Sometimes to be nice only dont give the real impact to change something.

I can give some money but dont have any prgramming or drawing skills by myself and dont know someone who can help.

Me too but I also can give some money if needed.


@Malkav0
http://www.dont-nod.com/contact/
I can put the link from Dontnod where you can also contact them maybe we can also send them something nice (optional)

Lehkeri
26th Oct 2015, 15:33
Let's hope this gets at least a comment from the devs.

On a sidenote, many of my friends chose to save arcadia. It's okay, it's their choice and their reasoning. But it really, really hurts when they say I chose wrong because I didn't understand the game and that their ending is the right one because the devs put more effort in it.

I dunno why it hurts. It just does.

KristaD
26th Oct 2015, 15:37
Let's hope this gets at least a comment from the devs.

On a sidenote, many of my friends chose to save arcadia. It's okay, it's their choice and their reasoning. But it really, really hurts when they say I chose wrong because I didn't understand the game and that their ending is the right one because the devs put more effort in it.

I dunno why it hurts. It just does.

I would bet it is because you have feelings. :)

King-Cayenne
28th Oct 2015, 09:57
Thanks for the re-post ^^
Please don't hesitate to give me feedback, for now it's all been positive. Dontnod team, if you happen to come by here, your opinion would be appreciated too =) Working on this helped me to make peace with the game and the endings that hurt my feelings as a player who thought he mattered in the end, and I thought it could help others too. Because I cared as much as you about the game, the story, the characters... I felt it needed more closure and brighter notes actually depending on your actions.
See ya !
Bro, this really needs more traction!
You did an incredible job of mapping this out to where, not only does it make sense, but it's actually realistically plausible. I read this and loved it.

I don't believe that the original ending is bad, per say, but it definitely needs more and what you proposed is perfect. Even in its current state I have multiple reasons why I chose Chloe over the bay and I'd do it again but this would make that choice even more impactful.

Lehkeri
28th Oct 2015, 20:57
Hmm

https://twitter.com/DONTNOD_Michel/status/659242384388173824

What's with the last sentence?

Edit. Correct link

PinkFrog
28th Oct 2015, 22:31
You mean season 2: confirmed?

I wouldn't go that far.... ;)

PS the emojis are oldschool here.. wowser

KristaD
29th Oct 2015, 01:02
Hmm

https://twitter.com/DONTNOD_Michel/status/659242384388173824

What's with the last sentence?

Edit. Correct link

That ending is open to interpretation...

Malkav0
29th Oct 2015, 09:24
Hmm

https://twitter.com/DONTNOD_Michel/status/659242384388173824

What's with the last sentence?

Edit. Correct link

It's a pretty shaddy statement to justify not having the time and/or ressources to make things more consistent... ^^v
Apologize, I don't say it to be mean or sarcastic. It's just what it feels like to me, but not in a bad way, in fact I feel sad to understand it this way. To me it implies the devs couldn't do more and found the best compromise they could to not plunder everyone's hope with the deadlines they had. In a way, it's an achievement.

--TIE--
29th Oct 2015, 17:27
@ Malkav0 did you try to contact dontnod directly not over a forum. Your thinking about the endings and the link to the petition in a Mail or something?

They simply need to honor that!

Lehkeri
29th Oct 2015, 17:34
@ Malkav0 did you try to contact dontnod directly not over a forum. Your thinking about the endings and the link to the petition in a Mail or something?

They simply need to honor that!

Or even acknowledge them. They really need to say something :/

MMOBLITZ
30th Oct 2015, 11:18
Well, the answer was specificly about the Max/Chloe romance, but the edit that inspired me show that the kiss fits perfectly BEFORE shredding the photo... So even when answering officialy, devs are sure not perfect. And it's logical. Do you see Michel Koch saying "sorry we were in a dead end time and ressource-wise and I'm honestly sorry and disappointed we couldn't deliver more" ? Even if it were the case, it's a very dangerous stance for business. You can just not face the world and admit you did not do what you wanted, because then you also screw your team and, mostly, your publisher.

There is already an admission by DOTNOD that they had rewritten EP 5 or at least the second half because of budget/time constraints.

45 Mins later: I was going to link the article I had read that in and now I can't find it. :mad2: I will continue to look for it later today.

I know for a fact that 3d models for Max, Chloe, Kate, Warren, Nathan, Victoria, Mr. Jefferson, as well as a few others have already been created. You just need a 3d animator and programer. The animating would take the longest to do.

I really hope DONTNOD takes notice of this.

--TIE--
30th Oct 2015, 11:39
There is already an admission by DOTNOD that they had rewritten EP 5 or at least the second half because of budget/time constraints.

Yeha that what the 5th Episode looks like in my german review (http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/life-is-strange/leser-rezensionen/life-realy-is-strange,51512,16415.html) of the game talk about it. It feels like the 5th episode is a composition of part of the last 3 (originaly 8 Episodes). There are so mutch different stuff...nightmare, San Francisco, night of the storm, aftermath...and so on. So much different settings and they arent realy linked together during the 5th episode. The calling from Nathan out of Nowhere and such things...feels like puzzleparts but not the whole picture...or badly arranged.

MMOBLITZ
30th Oct 2015, 11:45
Someone made a 7 sec clip of Max rewinding time..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSG9hJN5Fsc

Lehkeri
31st Oct 2015, 00:48
It seems Michel Koch has been rather active on twitter lately (and friendly). He's apparently quite eager to talk with people about the problems with the endings. I'd suggest sending him a polite tweet.

https://twitter.com/DONTNOD_Michel

HariboTer
31st Oct 2015, 15:25
Well, he (Michel Koch) already stated that the details of the "Sacrifice Arcadia Bay" ending were entirely up to interpretation. I'm pretty sure the OP is exactly what he meant :-)

(And yes, after lurking around here for a few days I just registered only to express how awesome I consider your contribution to be :D)

HariboTer
1st Nov 2015, 11:55
I am wondering though - basically, everything Max did after being freed by David did not happen (*) because she went back in time and told Chloe about what would happen, so that in the extended ending, Jefferson was already put away by the police. Since Chloe does survive, David would not have had a reason to kill Jefferson either, so is this a little logical hole in your story or is there something I oversaw?

* Also, how come Alyssa, Evan etc. are still affected by essentially undone choices?

Azuardo
4th Nov 2015, 02:44
Registered to come in to say I love your proposals and ideas for the ending. I, like many, felt extremely upset by the endings we were left with - especially the Pricefield ending, which really didn't represent fans of Chloe and the ending we felt the pair of them deserved by being together. The choices have no or little effects on the endings, and bearings on Episode 5 as a whole were also bitterly disappointing. I would have gladly waited longer if it meant getting fuller endings and a better episode that was on par with the rest of them.

I'm sincerely hoping Dontnod eventually adds to the endings in some way, and your ideas would be fantastic to reference.

Like the post above me mentions, though, I'm just wondering if there might be slight problems when it comes to certain events playing out that shouldn't because Max actually enters another new timeline that didn't feel the effects of decisions in previous timelines. However, you could simply base your proposed events (such as whether Jefferson is killed by a tree or not) happening simply on whether the choices were made (i.e. if you choose to kill Jefferson, he would be killed by a tree, regardless of the different timelines) - in reality, the two timelines mean choices made in one shouldn't affect the other, but for game/ending purposes, you could still have certain events play out because it will still give meaning to the user's choices in the end.

If it all can still work logically, though, then that's even better. Nonetheless, well done for putting great thought into an ending that really does Pricefield justice. I want to believe it's the real deal now.

Tataboj
4th Nov 2015, 07:28
Even in the episode there wasn't a single "this action will have consequences", because they knew that we know that we will get back through the photo and nothing happened.