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View Full Version : Unlucky or MM system again broken ?



Firehex
17th Oct 2015, 23:23
As someone remember i said what i will stop to play after getting blood rank. Today i decided to give game a chance and play few ranked games.

Hm, how is it possible what THREE games in row i played vs 2 same players([/1 of them was like ESL pro gamer - always top damage, but whatever) and with 1-2 same person in my team. Was it coincidence ? I don't believe in them. Maybe not enough players and game can find only those ? Well, this means what player base is really small.

So, did someone see same situation after last patch ? Never happened something like this before.
P.S. Also i got 2 mystic alchi weapons in a row. Coincidence ? No, it's vampire illuminati (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEvawaCHono)! :rasp:

Firehex
18th Oct 2015, 19:11
Nope, it wasn't coincidence . Today i tryed again and was playing vs/against same player 3 times... Jeez, devs - you destroyed MM system completly :(
Sorry, if i sounded a bit rude, but that's enough for me. If nothing happens after ranked season( balance changes, new MM, some cool features) i will just stop this nightmare and delete nosgoth. Why should i spend my nervs on game with 700 online ? :(

P.S. I wish good luck to all polite and teamworking players, be strong and patient, if you really want to be in eternal division.

ParadoxicalOmen
18th Oct 2015, 20:31
I think it was never "fixed" (especially taking into count me being put into servers where i have most lag)

Most say this problem is due to low player base, so MM can't predict a balanced match so good...

Nosmer
18th Oct 2015, 21:23
MM is completely broken at this point. I was having same issues you did, and even worse. Every match is getting harder and harder for me atm. Not because my enemy - theyre ok players every game - but because i'm getting worse and worse teammates. One day it got to the point that I, as a Blood 1 player, been playing with people that cant even aim properly, spare other things. The enemy, on the other hand, was completely on my level.

TheDreamcrusher
19th Oct 2015, 04:07
I like the term 'nonfunctioning.' Whatever you like though, it's not very good. It doesn't matter if I'm doing well with a k/d of 11/7, 15/5, or 8/0, we're still gonna lose. Cause my teams are the most inexperienced people playing Nosgoth. I have the noobie curse.

akr0nym
19th Oct 2015, 09:16
Just to sum up:

MMR is not broken. It's just not able to work properly. There are several reasons for that. (some of them were said already, small player base, e.g.)

For Leagues it feels totally broken tho. It is the false system for ranked at all.

There are several reasons for that:
From my understanding, correct me if I am wrong


No lvl or playertime cap or sth. If there are not enough ppl arround to start the game it will search for other players, with lower mmr. so you might end up with players in your team that have little or nearly no experience. MMR will make the teams "fair and balanced" by calculating a nearly equal number and switch players from one team to another. this cannot work at all, all players in eternal have a mmr of 2000 but some of them are real pros, some not.

it doesn't really matter what division you, your mates or opponents are in: MMR will be used to make the game.
this means you can end up with bronze newbies in your team tho you are in eternal.

And that's exactly where devs have to set some restrictions to make fair and competetive games.
I am sick of listing up suggestions anymore, there a plenty in the forum for that issue.

Another thing (that cannot be fixed due to the small player base) is the completely unfair "ranking" system in legaues.

Due to mmr, the game will make games as explained above.
this also means that good players will have matches against good ones from the very first start. same reward for the win, same reward for the loss.
noobs will play against noobs, same reward for the win, same reward for the loss.

so noobs might be placed higher in the list than you only because they have had easier games. total failure imo.

Additional fun fact:
Some guy played about 500 games and only 180 were winnings (maybe +/-20 don't know the exact value of winnings anymore).
He is placed in eternal. (or was when i checked a few days ago)
I played against him, let's just say: yeah, the numbers speak for themselves (win / defeat)
Now please tell me again this is not pure grinding :D

ParadoxicalOmen
20th Oct 2015, 01:08
Additional fun fact:
Some guy played about 500 games and only 180 were winnings (maybe +/-20 don't know the exact value of winnings anymore).
He is placed in eternal. (or was when i checked a few days ago)
I played against him, let's just say: yeah, the numbers speak for themselves (win / defeat)
Now please tell me again this is not pure grinding :D

That's the point...Leagues is about making points, so the more you play more points you make...

akr0nym
20th Oct 2015, 09:07
That's the point...Leagues is about making points, so the more you play more points you make...

Yeah that's for sure. But you should also lose points accordingly so it's fair and not only like the total grind.

Heretic_13
23rd Oct 2015, 08:35
True- i am not good player, only started some time ago and my win-loss is 50-50 give or take. And i understand that when you play for rewards or rank, some dork with no skill can be annoying.
But some of you cannot take loss like a adult human bieng- instead of treating game like a harmless fun, some of the players start throwing f-bombs, screaming, and treating a loss like thier life just ended
Multiplayer games are like chess- you won`t learn anything just by winning. New players need to learn. And what better way to learn than get a whooping from someone better? Thats how we improve. You weren`t always "da best", you were also learning at some point- would be nice if someone kicked you out just because you didn`t have "efficient skill"?
And ther is no Singleplayer, or bots to hone your skill on
Point, xp, ranking system are on the other hand broken. Should be relevant to your personal scores, not how bad your team is. But that is what needs improvement, not piting only good ones agains each other, game is not only for you
Not to mention guys that enter beginners matches with some advanced abilities, just so they could boost thier ego. Should we prevent them? No. New players will need to adjust, think, strategize instaead of blindly pressing mouse button

akr0nym
23rd Oct 2015, 09:05
New players need to learn. And what better way to learn than get a whooping from someone better? Thats how we improve. You weren`t always "da best", you were also learning at some point- would be nice if someone kicked you out just because you didn`t have "efficient skill"?

I totally agree with you on this one BUT: Not in leagues.
New players can play new recruit, that's why the devs made this 'game mode'. Don't you think it's rather frustrating to get rekt for like 6 games in the row, always k/d like 1:10+, dmg really low? And now think of other players in their team: It's logical that they rage about it.
At the moment you can play TDM like new recruit because nearly everyone wants to play leagues (especially good players). So why not train there if 'new recruit' isn't enough challenge?

I don't want to ban new players from leagues in general. Devs should just implement a way that they don't get pulled into high mmr player matches.

I mean sure you gotta lose from time to time and it's definitely part of the learning curve / progress but things like aiming will come over time and not from losing loads of games in a row.

Why should there be a singleplayer at all? This game is not supposed to be played offline / singleplayer...

I think win / loss is the best way to reward, they only have to modify matchmaking for leagues properly.


Not to mention guys that enter beginners matches with some advanced abilities, just so they could boost thier ego. Should we prevent them? No. New players will need to adjust, think, strategize instaead of blindly pressing mouse button

What are you talking about? Creating new accounts, abusing matchmaking system?

Heretic_13
23rd Oct 2015, 10:18
What are you talking about? Creating new accounts, abusing matchmaking system?

I dunno. We had this guy in beginner match(didn`t even think about it that time) who played vanguard, and summoner i think(not sure about second one but it dosen`t matter). Maybe he/she paid for skins and abilities, i really didn`t ask- but he had this glowing skins, and a for sure enchantments for his weapons, so he ain`t new to game. Especially after seeing his way of playing- never went first, always at the back of his/her team, and after someone attacked them, he/she charged in. His hits were pretty damaging, and he knew how to dodge around.
Vampires vs Humans(we were leeches) we lost something about 30-10 or something, with about 2/3 kill being his
Or maybe he/she was just talented :)

akr0nym
23rd Oct 2015, 14:43
I dunno. We had this guy in beginner match(didn`t even think about it that time) who played vanguard, and summoner i think(not sure about second one but it dosen`t matter). Maybe he/she paid for skins and abilities, i really didn`t ask- but he had this glowing skins, and a for sure enchantments for his weapons, so he ain`t new to game. Especially after seeing his way of playing- never went first, always at the back of his/her team, and after someone attacked them, he/she charged in. His hits were pretty damaging, and he knew how to dodge around.
Vampires vs Humans(we were leeches) we lost something about 30-10 or something, with about 2/3 kill being his
Or maybe he/she was just talented :)

well, as you said you can spend money on skins to get them. also on boosters, glow skins on weapons mean that they are mysterious. you can use the forge straight when you start the game and enchant items for runestones (if you don't have the gold/amts already) so it could have been a new player after all.

Well the dmg.. Like you said, maybe it was just luck/talent

TheDreamcrusher
23rd Oct 2015, 21:27
I can't express how much I hate the solo leagues and matchmaking now. Basically I know if I get ahead on a few wins over my 50% ratio, I'm gonna be saddled with deadweight teams.

SirSleepALot
24th Oct 2015, 23:02
This game has a match making system? :scratch:

akr0nym
26th Oct 2015, 12:07
This game has a match making system? :scratch:

Shots fired! :D

TheDreamcrusher
29th Oct 2015, 00:47
Had today off. Played all afternoon. Lost every game in ranked leagues. So stupid.

--Ram--
29th Oct 2015, 01:21
Had today off. Played all afternoon. Lost every game in ranked leagues. So stupid.

I feel you, had a similar experience last time I queued. Dream is a good player for anyone wondering. It's amazing looking at the ranked win/loss rates of players I know and seeing that players that are incredibly bad often getting better win rates than really strong players.

TheDreamcrusher
29th Oct 2015, 01:33
I feel you, had a similar experience last time I queued. Dream is a good player for anyone wondering. It's amazing looking at the ranked win/loss rates of players I know and seeing that players that are incredibly bad often getting better win rates than really strong players.

Thanks for the praise. I haven't played particularly well today but I think I'm above average, maybe sometimes excellent. It's awfully frustrating to go through soooo many games like this.

RainaAudron
29th Oct 2015, 11:38
Yesterday, it put me against the no1. player in the leagues (needless to say, they won only because of him), then the match after that we got put against some more eternals (who argued the whole match). To put this in perspective, I am in Blood 4 and my teammate was Gold 2, not sure what the others were.

Da_Wolv
29th Oct 2015, 12:31
Yesterday, it put me against the no1. player in the leagues (needless to say, they won only because of him), then the match after that we got put against some more eternals (who argued the whole match). To put this in perspective, I am in Blood 4 and my teammate was Gold 2, not sure what the others were.

My solution:
Ignore ranked. Theres no way you are gonna fall out of Blood 4 and especially no way you are gonna reach eternal with the days remaining.

TheDreamcrusher
30th Oct 2015, 02:06
The most puzzling thing to me is why people still quote their rank. It doesn't mean anything but time put in the game.