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View Full Version : Remove positive item effects that do nothing from weapons - Please!



OmniDetta
17th Nov 2014, 23:09
So I got my first human M.I. after 56h or so of game-time. It was a weapon for my fave class, scout; awesome! It was a stormbow; not so awesome! Oh Well, still worth putting in the grind to level it up right?

.....MUCH to my disappointment:

Random stat:

1)
+5% Clip Size, +10% Ammo Capacity
+5% Reload Speed

2)
-8% Weapon Recoil
-15% Health From Supply Stations

3)
VFX = It doesn't matter because this is inferior to the stock bow in every possible way!

Seriously!? Now I'm all for a RNG on item perks, but surely this should be implemented in such a way that the positive in the positive/negative side-grade variations are just that POSITIVE effects that offset the negative trade-off.

In this (unlucky) case I have a bow that gains 5% clip size. Sadly in this case, a base clip of 5 + 0.25 = 5.25, which in game terms (clearly rounded down) still = 5

And -8% weapon recoil, on a weapon with a base fire rate of 1.25 and as far as I can tell, ZERO recoil.


For all of this goodness, I only need to pay the small price of +5% reload speed and -15% Health From Supply Stations!

I suppose you could argue that I do see a gain in total capacity, but I would consider an extra 3 arrows negligible at best. No matter how you swing it this is a clear downgrade from the stock bow, not the sidegrade that I would argue it should be.

Quite a kick in the proverbials when I had to play so many games to see my first drop, and then so many again to level the item itself. I really do think it would be a much fairer system if useless positive effects for any given weapon type were filtered out (and in the interests of balance, negligible negative effects too).

At the very least, a quick fix might be to round unaffected positive stats up, and unaffected negative stats down. In this instance I would have been happy with an extra arrow in my quiver/clip; a more palatable trade for increased reload speed and decreased healing. :p




EDIT: As disappointed as I am, I am genuinely trying to be constructive and improve what I perceive to be a flaw in the RNG system.

SiD_Green
18th Nov 2014, 00:07
Have you tried it out in game, though? I have a compound bow with +5% clip size, which would be 6.3, but it has a clip of 7.

--Ram--
18th Nov 2014, 04:16
Have you tried it out in game, though? I have a compound bow with +5% clip size, which would be 6.3, but it has a clip of 7.

In my experience any clip size increase stats gives a +1 to the scouts clip, which is actually really useful. I Haven't tested your exact case but:

using a war bow with the tinkerer perk gives 4 +(10%) = 4.4 but you actually get 5 arrows per clip i.e. not a round down.

Also for those interested I have found that using a prophet heavy pistol (8 bullet clip) with a -5% clip size still leaves you with 8 bullets, making it a less impactfull negative stat to have

GenFeelGood
18th Nov 2014, 04:31
Once crafting comes along you'll be able to make something closer to your desired specs; and, if I understand it right, you can scrap and salvage what you like from this. I also believe you will roll for the negative stats and re roll til you get what you can live with. Honestly though, aside from it not being a bow I prefer, those stats are what I favor for a scout bow. Reduced recoil will come in handy for the long distance shots where you might usually miss by mere inches and an extra round (and it should give you an extra round regardless of how the math works out) before having to reload can make the difference when the vamps have closed the gap.

-Konf-
18th Nov 2014, 05:35
Have you tried it out in game, though? I have a compound bow with +5% clip size, which would be 6.3, but it has a clip of 7.
Exactly, same happened to me. I got a Swiftbow with a +5% clip size, and that gives me a clip of 7. While giving less total ammo (compared to the perk), the immediate increase in clip size is fantastic. It pretty much allows you to skip Tinkerer and use any other perk. In my opinion you got one of the best positive rolls for Scouts right there.

And like GenFeelGood said, crafting system will solve all your problems. You'll be able to re-roll your attributes (not the visual though), or craft a whole other item after salvaging your Stormbow if you feel like it.

Also for those interested I have found that using a prophet heavy pistol (8 bullet clip) with a -5% clip size still leaves you with 8 bullets, making it a less impactfull negative stat to have
Thanks a lot for that! While I think it might get a nerf in the future (to make it fair across the board considering how it works for Scouts and I assume Alchemists too) - for now that's still a great piece of information to know!

Saturnity
18th Nov 2014, 05:43
+clip size on a scout bow is the single most valuable stat in the entire game. It always rounds up and it stacks separately with tinkerer. That's +2 shots. If -recoil was -spread and -reload speed was +cooldown time, that would be a perfect bow. -15% station healing rarely gets you killed since you have to be at really low hp for it to matter.

The biggest problem with your bow is that it's a storm bow. Worst scout weapon.

OmniDetta
18th Nov 2014, 11:18
Once crafting comes along you'll be able to make something closer to your desired specs; and, if I understand it right, you can scrap and salvage what you like from this. I also believe you will roll for the negative stats and re roll til you get what you can live with. Honestly though, aside from it not being a bow I prefer, those stats are what I favor for a scout bow. Reduced recoil will come in handy for the long distance shots where you might usually miss by mere inches and an extra round (and it should give you an extra round regardless of how the math works out) before having to reload can make the difference when the vamps have closed the gap.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are mistaking spread/accuracy for recoil. I have always understood recoil as the 'kick' resulting from a shot fired. A kick that has no effect on the shot that created it, but can negatively affect the accuracy on subsequent shots on high RoF weapons, i.e. not bows.


I will check on the clip size again tonight, if I do indeed have the extra arrow in the clip, I will be happy enough, aside form the fact that, as Saturnity says; it's a scout bow!