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View Full Version : Everyone is 40 and the fun of the open beta



Malkev
16th Nov 2014, 11:01
Lately, for some reason, I hope it is just my bad luck, I can't stop playing against teams from level 40, usually with teamspeak. While this is a minor annoyance to me that and I am slowly tolerating it, I can't stop thinking that the open beta is close and how terrible it will be for the new players.

Imagine going to a game, and move from level 10 to face battle after battle against elite level 40 without any possibility to win, and certainly not learning anything in those battles, because they have no room for trial and error.

If we really wants this game to be competitive at the same time begin to incorporate new players should start thinking about creating a "Ranked" mode, where you play with people of your level or maybe a "casual" mode, where you play for fun and not for ******* violate youre opponent.

If this continues, the open beta is going to be a laugh and the new additions will be disappearing massively, like my friends do when I invited them to try this game as it is now.

This is not a /cry, it is a warning to be taken into account to not end up being an elite community community game that does not allow new people as has happened in many other games that have been eventually dying.

This game is worth, let us improve everything.

(Sorry for my engrish)

B2H2B2
16th Nov 2014, 20:41
I totally agree with you. I only started playing about 4 days ago and have been crushed today by a bunch of level 40 parties. The initial level 10 and under was good for picking up the game. The only problem I had with it though was that after a few matches there were hardly any other players for more matches. I had to jump into the normal deathmatch at level 4 to find more games. Once the population increases they are going to need to add in more rank based limits or party limits. I'd like to see a 3 tiered system in the future. They should be 0-14,15-29, 30-40.

The only thing that worries me about that system would be that game knowledge wouldn't spread much between tiers, but as it is now, level 40's have not given me any serious game advice. They usually do what they know how to do on their own. They should be filling in newer players about shooting sight lines, when and how to safely chase down weak vamps, and focus fire as a human. Tips on stealth patterns, decoys & distractions, when to charge melee and kill confirming as vampires. Those are all skills that you see level 40's do well and it's because they have spent the time and gained the experience first hand. Those skills are also hard to counter as a new player. When a good human team has all the sight lines covered, you feel like you can't escape after you engage. Knowing how to break those sight lines requires in depth map knowledge. A good vampire team can break down poorly spaced humans using decoy tactics, and once again it comes down to map knowledge of what makes a site good or bad for defending.

Having open communication between rookies and veterans will be key for open beta success. Keeping parties matched against other parties will be most important. Parties are usually better at communication and teamwork because they have developed team chemistry by constantly playing together, compared to a bunch of random pubs. It would be like having an NFL team play against a pee wee football team. This type of thing always happens in teamwork heavy games.

GenFeelGood
16th Nov 2014, 21:02
The only thing that worries me about that system would be that game knowledge wouldn't spread much between tiers, but as it is now, level 40's have not given me any serious game advice. They usually do what they know how to do on their own. They should be filling in newer players about shooting sight lines, when and how to safely chase down weak vamps, and focus fire as a human. Tips on stealth patterns, decoys & distractions, when to charge melee and kill confirming as vampires. Those are all skills that you see level 40's do well and it's because they have spent the time and gained the experience first hand. Those skills are also hard to counter as a new player. When a good human team has all the sight lines covered, you feel like you can't escape after you engage. Knowing how to break those sight lines requires in depth map knowledge. A good vampire team can break down poorly spaced humans using decoy tactics, and once again it comes down to map knowledge of what makes a site good or bad for defending.

Having open communication between rookies and veterans will be key for open beta success. Keeping parties matched against other parties will be most important. Parties are usually better at communication and teamwork because they have developed team chemistry by constantly playing together, compared to a bunch of random pubs. It would be like having an NFL team play against a pee wee football team. This type of thing always happens in teamwork heavy games.
Have you tried asking questions using the text chat? I can't speak for all higher level players but many of us are pretty good about answering gameplay related questions and offering tips for how to play a little more effectively when requested.

B2H2B2
16th Nov 2014, 22:00
Yeah, I've used text chat quite a bit. If I do get a response, it's really short and snappy. I understand that is has to be given the pace of the game and importance of awareness. It's usually things like "follow me here" but outside of that there isn't an explanation of why. I play Tyrant on vampire side and I'll be told to "go in" but it isn't that easy if the humans are well spaced, especially if I'm running leap or charge against the wrong positioning scenario for them. I've definitely picked up more info out of game compared to in-game.

RainaAudron
16th Nov 2014, 22:24
I think the problem here is that typing takes too long. You have a few seconds to type while respawning but after that it can be difficult. I must say when I´m playing, I prefer to play with my team of friends while we are all on raidcall, makes organizing attacks much easier. I get that sometimes you can´t do that, especially when playing alone, but there isnt much you can do besides reading strategies on the forums or talk to players outside the game.

GenFeelGood
16th Nov 2014, 22:52
Yeah, I've used text chat quite a bit. If I do get a response, it's really short and snappy. I understand that is has to be given the pace of the game and importance of awareness. It's usually things like "follow me here" but outside of that there isn't an explanation of why. I play Tyrant on vampire side and I'll be told to "go in" but it isn't that easy if the humans are well spaced, especially if I'm running leap or charge against the wrong positioning scenario for them. I've definitely picked up more info out of game compared to in-game.

I'd avoid going where people tell you to go. Stay with your team; but usually just stay where you can see your teammates and they can see you. Other than that keep your eyes open, check the status of your teammates regularly, and listen for certain sounds that indicate a vamp is close and what vamp it actually is so you can respond appropriatly.

For vamps, hit and run is the name of the game when you are the knife in a gun fight. If you are the initiator, the one that's shot at first in situations where the humans are dug in then you get out of it first while your teams engages and you jump in after positioning again. My favorite maneuver as Tyrant is to leap in first, go stone skin and retreat up a ledge, and once the humans have turned their attention towards my team (who cleared the gap while I was being shot at) I jump down delivering a shockwave on the humans from behind. From their I either continue fighting or retreat & reposition myself again.

Ysanoire
16th Nov 2014, 23:29
I wouldn't really worry about this too much. Open beta is supposed to coincide with a new matchmaking system, and you'd expect "open" would also mean more people to be accurately matched against. Hopefully that'll solve the issue.

--Ram--
17th Nov 2014, 02:32
People who know the game well party to avoid being stuck with rookie only teams and driven mad with frustration. Usually I party with one other competent player, it makes the game far more enjoyable for me. It may make the game difficult for others, but such is life. Anyone is free to make a party. I also solo queue a lot. I don't enjoy stomping for the sake of stomping, but I can't stand playing with people way below my level game after game.

Remember that most mean old lvl 40s started the same way as everyone else, at the bottom. I would actually love to be able to help new players during the game, but without functional voice chat its basically impossible to guide people in any meaningful way other than by example. I really look forward to the day when we can communicate properly in pubs.

That said it isn't an overly difficult game and the learning curve is not high. There are resources around full of info if people actually bother to look. I taught myself everything I know about the game by applying common sense, looking at a couple of guides and videos, and by trial and error.

Raziel220
17th Nov 2014, 11:21
Now, I'm not an expert, I actually suck, I'm barely level 20 and always have my winrate between 39% and 41% only for pure luck, but, one thing that I can be sure, is that you can't just say:


(...) game knowledge wouldn't spread much between tiers, but as it is now, level 40's have not given me any serious game advice. They usually do what they know how to do on their own. They should be filling in newer players about (...) (game knowledge) (...)

In the game, if you take more than 30 seconds to write, you will be probably dead, unless you're in a safe place, but even only 10 or 15 seconds will mean a potentially great disadvantage for you and your team, because those are seconds in which you are not supporting your team, in which the battle is given 4vs.3, minutes or seconds in which you can let escape an enemy with 120hp allowing him/her the enough time to heal... I'm talking from the expirience, those seconds are hard to recover, that's maybe the main reason of why "40's" don't give you advices in the middle of a match, but, in the forum, you will find a LOT of guides about each class, about the game, main strategies, main "do and don't" stuff, and a lot of topics that, only with paying attention for a couple of minutes, will make you improve, but, more important: Who do you think that has taken the bother to investigate, reunite all that knowledge and organize it in the guides we have in the forum?... No one else than "40's"! ... And I say "40's" because they maybe are not even level 40, you don't need to be 40 to be good, you can be 20 and be "diamond", for saying something, while, maybe, the 40 is 40 only because he has a long time playing, but not everyday, and not with the dedication you need to be a "diamond", gaining little experience in the game, and maybe this 40 is silver or bronce... After all, same happens in LoL, or other games, of course, experience help, but isn't all, if you want to improve, you must do research and start practicing...

In this game, it doesn't matter if you're 40 or not, what matters is your own experience, want to improve? watch the Noscam! you have a great opportunity to improve there!, or go to private matches alone! buy powers and test for new strategies, ask a friend or a random stranger to go to a private match with you to prove things between you two. But, if you really want to be good at the game, READ the guides that all the 40's have written until now, because they spent a lot of time doing those guides, and they did it to help new players, as it is desperately asked here.

Now, as I said, I'm not an expert, and I haven't read the guides until now, I only glanced them a little bit, but there are some few things that you can learn very quickly, and you need nothing but a few matches of expirience, for example: stay togheter, don't run alone, etc... If you keep playing, it will take you little time to learn positions, for example, where to run to find a healing station, which healing station is more convinient for not finding enemies while you're low of health, where to run, when to hide to succesfully escape, where to look and what to do every single second... Of course, playing as a team is always better... If you have the chance to start playing with the same people match after match, you will start to know each other, and you will learn to be a team, which will mean a lot of wins for you, or at least, expirience from a lot of lost matches, which is the ritualistic formation for every "diamond": thousands of defeats.

Now, the only thing I'm completely agree, is that we need a rank-system, but it's not completely necessary to enjoy the game, however, it would be great to have tournaments and leagues... I trust that all these things will appear after the new matchmaking system in Open Beta.

Just in case, I didn't want to offend anyone, and sorry if I did, hope to have made some helpful advice at least. Sorry if my english isn't perfect, if there's any misunderstanding, I'll be happy to apologize and correct my-self.

Bye! have a great day! and sorry for the long post! :)

Vampmaster
17th Nov 2014, 11:34
This where prerecorded text macros and vocals would be helpful. You tap a key or two and you get a clear concise non-flaming messages between teammates that don't take forever to type.

Also, once the new MMR ranking is added (which I'm certain would be before open beta), a level 0-14,15-29, 30-40 tier system would be redundant. Maybe the new recruit mode could be kept just so the system can get an assessment of your skill level before allowing to switch over to MMR and if you're already past level 10 when the system becomes active, it uses your existing stats to estimate what sort of rank you should be. Either way using experience levels is just a bad way to assess skill in general. It's pretty much a measure of how many kills you've ever gotten without really taking into account deaths and accuracy etc. These are the types of thing that would be taken into account in the new system.

Malkev
17th Nov 2014, 12:20
Remember that most mean old lvl 40s started the same way as everyone else, at the bottom. I would actually love to be able to help new players during the game, but without functional voice chat its basically impossible to guide people in any meaningful way other than by example. I really look forward to the day when we can communicate properly in pubs.

Well, you have to keep in mind that it is not the same start playing while everyone starts playing and are the same level and experience of you to a game who has "time" and are people of the highest level playing in group.

Its possible that with the open beta all changed due to the new Matchmaking and the new players, I hope so, but now all I can do lobby after lobby, is to cross my fingers and hope it touches me with some of my level to see if I can do anything and improve a little bit more.

DesolatedMaggot
17th Nov 2014, 12:44
I try to give tips to people doing things drastically wrong, in a polite manner. Most of the time I am either ignored or dismissed rudely ("go *** urself scumbag", etc). Doesn't stop me from trying here and there, but most times I don't say anything until they ask/accuse of cheating.