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View Full Version : For the love of god postpone ALL ESL tourneys/leagues.



BR0sephStalin
15th Nov 2014, 23:02
ESL has started doing tourneys for this game WAYYYYYY too early. There are like 4 teams split between two regions in the game. The 200 bucks a month is going to go down the drain, ESL will abandon the game, and comp Nosgoth will be **** because it started in CLOSED BETA when the PEAK USERS ARE 400.

It is an embarrassment. Just wait until OB for league play please.

TendrilSavant
16th Nov 2014, 00:42
In b4 members of those teams tell you to "git gud" in some way or another.

I also feel it's too early to run tournaments, we should have had at least a couple of months of exploring the scrim meta with the newly released private lobbies. That way we could have had time to establish a standardized ruleset; not having a class limit or allowing uncommon/rare items just doesn't seem right to me.

Since the population is so low, I see this more as an "exhibition" than a tournament; basically an event to get people back to playing Nosgoth, which I'm not sure it will do.

--Ram--
16th Nov 2014, 04:48
The current tourneys strike me as a way of marketing Nosgoth as a potential E-sport and not much more. It does seem premature and slightly ridiculous to run this sort of thing during closed beta, but I doubt it will do too much harm. Still this really could have waited until open beta.

I don't really think it is angled at increasing the current player base either. If that was the intention I'm sure we would see another free steam weekend instead as clearly that gets results.

BR0sephStalin
16th Nov 2014, 04:53
The current tourneys strike me as a way of marketing Nosgoth as a potential E-sport and not much more. It does seem premature and slightly ridiculous to run this sort of thing during closed beta, but I doubt it will do too much harm. Still this really could have waited until open beta.

I don't really think it is angled at increasing the current player base either. If that was the intention I'm sure we would see another free steam weekend instead as clearly that gets results.

ESL is bound to notice there are only 3 teams competing and scrap it. Once it is gone it is going to be hard to get back.


In b4 members of those teams tell you to "git gud" in some way or another.

I also feel it's too early to run tournaments, we should have had at least a couple of months of exploring the scrim meta with the newly released private lobbies. That way we could have had time to establish a standardized ruleset; not having a class limit or allowing uncommon/rare items just doesn't seem right to me.

Since the population is so low, I see this more as an "exhibition" than a tournament; basically an event to get people back to playing Nosgoth, which I'm not sure it will do.

I don't think anybody is going to tell me to get good. Most NA players know who I am and know that I am alright at the game. I'm just seriously concerned that poor turnouts are going to deter ESL and other leagues from picking up the game in the future.

--Ram--
16th Nov 2014, 08:07
ESL is bound to notice there are only 3 teams competing and scrap it.


Where are you getting these 3 teams from? Tomorrows Europe game has 14 listed.

http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/major/closed-beta-cup-series-eu

BR0sephStalin
17th Nov 2014, 06:41
Where are you getting these 3 teams from? Tomorrows Europe game has 14 listed.

http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/major/closed-beta-cup-series-eu

I'm exaggerating, but some of those teams are NA teams that I believe have been barred from playing EU due to rule changes. Could be wrong about that. Regardless, I'd be surprised if more than 6 of those teams actually show up to play.

RainaAudron
17th Nov 2014, 09:50
A week ago there were 27 teams participating and yesterday in the EU cup I think there were 18.

BR0sephStalin
18th Nov 2014, 05:10
A week ago there were 27 teams participating and yesterday in the EU cup I think there were 18.

do we know how many teams actually showed up?

malgaa
18th Nov 2014, 09:59
do we know how many teams actually showed up?

EU: 15/18
NA: 6/12

--Ram--
18th Nov 2014, 13:58
EU: 15/18
NA: 6/12

So around 15% of the current player base. Could be worse.

Also, the player base could be better :)

Whoopdidoohah
18th Nov 2014, 15:34
Agreed with OP

Not that I care much, but the meta is completely unbalanced.

First, hunters and humans in general, but mostly hunters, are too strong.

That leads to my second point.

Reavers are the only vampire that can compete if the objective is to win.

Feel free to disagree but enjoy those Hunters vs Reavers matches, untill it's fixed I'll strongly discourage new players to participate in these.

Thanks for the community members that are pushing for this but it's just a bit premature, IMO. Good effort, wrong timing.

Especially when there's money involved you can be sure the 'fun' factor will disapear quick and this game's going to be even emptier if that can be.

I just came back from a hiatus because I was bored playign against teams of hunters / reavers and now they're pushing ESL... Really it's like they have their heads in the sand. Make the other classes viable for the competitive scene. When you have good players defending the predominant usage of 'sweeping kick reavers' for tournies because 'no other primary skills for vampires can kill the dominant humans', you know that there is something wrong.

PencileyePirate
22nd Nov 2014, 17:43
I agree with OP, mostly because there's no spectator mode and ESL isn't uploading replays.

Calderweiss
21st Dec 2014, 06:57
Agreed with OP
Reavers are the only vampire that can compete if the objective is to win.

I've actually been starting to see some pretty convincing Tyrant play from several factions pretty recently. Let's hope to see it in ESL.

uNborn-
22nd Dec 2014, 00:00
Agreed with OP

Not that I care much, but the meta is completely unbalanced.

First, hunters and humans in general, but mostly hunters, are too strong.

That leads to my second point.

Reavers are the only vampire that can compete if the objective is to win.

Feel free to disagree but enjoy those Hunters vs Reavers matches, untill it's fixed I'll strongly discourage new players to participate in these.

Thanks for the community members that are pushing for this but it's just a bit premature, IMO. Good effort, wrong timing.

Especially when there's money involved you can be sure the 'fun' factor will disapear quick and this game's going to be even emptier if that can be.

I just came back from a hiatus because I was bored playign against teams of hunters / reavers and now they're pushing ESL... Really it's like they have their heads in the sand. Make the other classes viable for the competitive scene. When you have good players defending the predominant usage of 'sweeping kick reavers' for tournies because 'no other primary skills for vampires can kill the dominant humans', you know that there is something wrong.

Tyrants are reliable and extremely useful at games in high level play. Reavers aren't OP the other two classes Sentinel by nature is harder to play in comp because they get shredded by a full team of skilled players. Deciever was viable but is bugged right now and if you take shots while invis the entire human side can see the health bar. IE=dead. I used to main deciever.

No one is coming in here saying to get good. Maybe to just form teams with the friends that they 4 stack pubs with anyways and try to work on team mechanics instead of tea bagging level 10s in pubs and feeling good about themselves.

Its obvious this game wasn't ready for tournment play but in the same breath realize that square enix put the money up (which isn't a lot) to try to foster a competitive community in CLOSED BETA. Who knows what ESL and SE have in store for when Open beta drops. Although, Gauging by the lack of interest in the CLOSED BETA tourney for many reasons, including a slew of frustrating bugs and a flock of complaining whiners, this is where we are. If they had've included in game currency prizes for 2nd and 3rd place we might not be where we are today. But we are.

These players and teams that insist there is no point signing up on ESL are literally 4 stacking pubs and playing regardless. I fail to see how that is better than sacking up and playing against people in scrims or on ESL therefore growing the competitive landscape of nosgoth as a whole.

BR0sephStalin
22nd Dec 2014, 22:03
uNborn, we get it. You want people to scrim you. Nobody except for children who are scared to scrim because they think scrims matter disagree with you. Scrims are simply good AND fun. Some people (myself included) aren't playing comp at the moment because they don't want to devote that much time to an unfinished game. That's another thing entirely.

That said, the issue I originally addressed in this post is that money is being wasted. The lack of playerbase in NA right now is going to be falsely perceived as a general lack of interest permanently by ESL. Promoting ESL this early isn't just a waste, but it is actually detrimental to the competitive development of the game in the future.

KrazeyXII
29th Dec 2014, 21:08
I'm fine with people playing competitively if it's to help balance the game. Pushing e-sports is a dangerous path to walk and I do feel that this is being used too early as a promotional tool. I will eventually step into the competitive scene with a friend but the game currently doesn't have the infrastructure for it. Use these 'high level' games as a way to see better players abusing abilities/classes that are too strong and then use this information to help balance.

I'm nearly certain that if hunters/scouts had their kits mixed and if reavers bombs had less range we wouldn't have a problem with class stacking. Use these types of matches to mess with the game on different test patches to see how things pan out. Don't push actually competitive right now. I would be more than happy to sign up for test tournaments to see if classes could be balanced in creative ways before release.

Shutenti
30th Dec 2014, 09:16
I'm nearly certain that if hunters/scouts had their kits mixed and if reavers bombs had less range we wouldn't have a problem with class stacking.

What problems with class stacking? I haven't seen stacking used in any competitive matches, except one 4x hunter stack that was roundly beaten. As far as I can see, class stacking is something relatively new players complain about before they realize they're actually starting to reach the level at which teams can play together. Stacking is the simplest team strategy to orchestrate in a pub but it is easily countered and is certainly not a balance problem in the game mechanics.

Perhaps a player from a high level competitive team (At? Dead Sun? Imb?) would like to chip in here if I'm mistaken and there's a gentleman's agreement in place for class selection in the ESL tourneys...

uNborn-
31st Dec 2014, 18:10
There is no such thing as class stacking in competitive play. Each team picks whatever class and loadout they want. The meta is constantly changing and evolving as the balance changes are released.