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View Full Version : Leagues 2.0 Nothing was learned, nothing was gained



Jakubus
12th Oct 2015, 19:17
Greetings, I've been a long time player of Nosgoth, watching and playing as it goes further and further downhill in terms of playability and the community and I've just decided to add my input after so long of lurking on the forums. I'll try to be as .. pleasant as possible for those who know me to be as toxic as I am, but I've just got a tidbit of feedback for the devs if they haven't just all up and given up that is.

Leagues is a huge failure in my opinion and throwing cash to the top 100 players has me a bit irked, but do what you want with your money, it's not mine after all and to be honest I don't want it, nor do I deserve it (I'm not THAT good).

Anywho enough of that, just consider and bear with me on this, it is after all a long shot in the dark, but maybe there could be a level cap that you need to get into Leagues. I have for the past several matches and months been paired with the newest of individuals that obviously shouldn't be in ranked, but there they are. I know that isn't the best way to get new comers into the game, but neither is allowing ANYONE with enough spare time to make an account or an alt and screw over people who just want to play a good game with good players or earn a bit of dosh.

An example would be let players who are level 25+ (The halfway mark) into ranked. At least they know something about how the game works. All of this is just leading to dodgers and trolls messing everything up.

I've actually lost most of my motivation to go on with this request, but I'll just ask for a real surrender button. That's it.

Stop giving out money too, it looks pathetic. Leave it to ESL.

akr0nym
13th Oct 2015, 09:01
I'm with you on the most of the things you mentioned.

My conclusion with the forum so far regarding feedback and suggestion:
Complete waste of time.

The devs know about the issues (some of them aint new at all).
In the end they make the game and decide what to do. I have no problem with that at all, I am not a dev. I don't even think of telling them what to do. They have done a good job with the game already (I wouldn't have spent 500+ ingame if not).

But what I think they could do is the following:
Include the community! It's a small player base but I think the most do really care about the game and want it to grow.
Most players have played they game for a very long time so they know a lot about it (what to improve, e.g.).

I have suggested to make polls or sth. to get a feeling what the community really wants in another post already. It would really point out that they care about what the player think (I don't say that they have to implement the results of the poll right away it should rather be food for thought)

That being said the player base of this game is actually too small. I mean, you cannot have a single game without recognizing at least one player or maybe even have one in your friend list... You could now say it's a good thing, sometimes it is indeed (can be really competetive). But for the long term I guess it's gonna kill the game. If you check the steamcharts you will see that the league thing with the prize money has not brought loads of new players yet (as it probably was intended).

Well, it's just like you explained it above:
1. New players wanna play, cool nosgoth is f2p, looks cool, maybe doesn't even play the tutorial, cool leagues, think they can earn money, huehue.. (that's where the devs have to set restrictions)
2. Joins a lobby. Does not dodge lobby or leave, doesn't know any of the good players.
3. game starts, get totally rekt. (maybe some of the team mates even blame him (not the system)) - end of the match, did not help the team at all.
4. this repeats several times. player leaves the game frustrated (maybe forever cuz it's f2p there is no motivation to keep on playin. paid nothing, no waste of money.so don't want to waste further time just losing. there are loads of other games arround).

This could be the scenario of a new player in nosgoth with the current state. I wonder if the devs thought about it that way..

I also think that real money is the wrong way to go. People want earn some, they can play ESL.

Maybe an offical statement (not in the forums but in the blog) would calm some players down or at least show that they are aware of these issues and try to solve em in a timely manner.

Jakubus
13th Oct 2015, 11:37
I admit to being guilty about **** on some new players, mostly a request to not do ranked. As much as I'd love to be all hugs and kisses, the lack of all around ... everything lately from the game and the direction it's going has made me somewhat bitter. I feel for those who have actually looked at the game like myself and put their time into playing and their money to support its development. I am of course referencing the alpha purchases, those who spent hundreds of dollars on a game that had great lore and game-play.

Think of the potential!


I agree with you whole heartedly about the current size of the community, etc. etc.

Arydious
13th Oct 2015, 13:23
1. New players wanna play, cool nosgoth is f2p, looks cool, maybe doesn't even play the tutorial, cool leagues, think they can earn money, huehue.. (that's where the devs have to set restrictions)
2. Joins a lobby. Does not dodge lobby or leave, doesn't know any of the good players.
3. game starts, get totally rekt. (maybe some of the team mates even blame him (not the system)) - end of the match, did not help the team at all.
4. this repeats several times. player leaves the game frustrated (maybe forever cuz it's f2p there is no motivation to keep on playin. paid nothing, no waste of money.so don't want to waste further time just losing. there are loads of other games arround).

Basically this!

Let's not forget the players who are brand new some how did some ranked and won and got into Gold or Blood, and they are trying to tell everyone what to do. The only basis on skill they have is I am in Gold 1 Bro trust me I know what I am doing. I hate people like that.

However it's not their fault, in almost every other game that you play ranked puts you in a proper divisions. It's not point based just to move up, it has a strict setting so when you play ranked if you are a bronze player, you only play bronze players till you get better. Nosgoth ranked says we placed you in Bronze bad, cause you are awful, however nothing is going to stop you from playing those eternal guys. Okay goodluck, oh you want out of bronze, yeah just play some more it's all about your time invested into ranked nothing to do with your skill.

The whole system is set up to chase players away. We have all been telling Psyonix/Square this since The leagues started. They didn't care to fix it then they just pushed it out with cash prizes instead.

10/10

akr0nym
13th Oct 2015, 14:08
I admit to being guilty about **** on some new players, mostly a request to not do ranked. As much as I'd love to be all hugs and kisses, the lack of all around ... everything lately from the game and the direction it's going has made me somewhat bitter.



Me also. But I don't give a **** about people calling me toxic or filled with hatred or whatever. :D
Tbh you just have to dodge lobbies if you don't know the player or at least had the chance to quickly check his profile. If he has below 100h or maybe not an even created his steam profile you can be sure that you are gonna lose this match. Sad but true. If you have the time for endless grinding you can play fair and stay with the noobs.

Judge me for this behaviour if you want to, I didn't do that for about the first 25 matches or so. What did I get for it? Placed in bronze in the first place only because I wanted to play fair. You are maybe even the best player of the match but you are in the losing team (20kills,12deaths, 31k damage, nosgoth says: here take your reward, a loss and -4 for that! Seriously? :D) If you check eternal list (and also know the players tho they change their nicknames daily but they are in your friendlist) you will realize that nearly all of them dodge lobbies when they are teamed up with noobs. None of them would admit it here in the forums. They will keep on searching til they are sure that they can win this with the three other mates.

It's just clever behaviour, has nothing to do with fairness but hey, the game rewards you this way.


I feel for those who have actually looked at the game like myself and put their time into playing and their money to support its development. I am of course referencing the alpha purchases, those who spent hundreds of dollars on a game that had great lore and game-play.

Think of the potential!


I started with closed beta tbh (was just a few euro) and later spent some money on skins and other stuff. In the end I might spent 30€ or so, don't know don't really care about the money tbh. I don't think that all of the players want to support the game by buying stuff but that's another topic ;) But you're right, they could do things different when it comes to money prizes.



I agree with you whole heartedly about the current size of the community, etc. etc.

Yay ^^



Basically this!
:thumb:


Let's not forget the players who are brand new some how did some ranked and won and got into Gold or Blood, and they are trying to tell everyone what to do. The only basis on skill they have is I am in Gold 1 Bro trust me I know what I am doing. I hate people like that.

I actually don't know any new players nor talked to them, but i think in this case little knowledge is worse than no knowledge if you know what i mean. :D


However it's not their fault, in almost every other game that you play ranked puts you in a proper divisions. It's not point based just to move up, it has a strict setting so when you play ranked if you are a bronze player, you only play bronze players till you get better. Nosgoth ranked says we placed you in Bronze bad, cause you are awful, however nothing is going to stop you from playing those eternal guys. Okay goodluck, oh you want out of bronze, yeah just play some more it's all about your time invested into ranked nothing to do with your skill.

Yeah that'd be fair and I have thought of this scenario also but this can only work properly in a game with a large playerbase; in nosgoth you would probably end up with waiting hours to find players for a match.


The whole system is set up to chase players away. We have all been telling Psyonix/Square this since The leagues started. They didn't care to fix it then they just pushed it out with cash prizes instead.
10/10
I just assume they didn't think it through that far, but we still should not forget that this game is not finished and supposed to change.

Maybe they will start to listen when player rate drops further and you can be 100% sure that you will be put in a team with guys from your friendslist in leagues. (due to the small player base this works already and should also not be possible for a leagues series...)