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Eremos
20th Oct 2014, 15:32
32% win rate. Nothing more to say.

Usual guides are not working. I've been playing online games all my life and doing decently well. But with this game... I just can't. I rarely got the least points in my team, but I'm doing something wrong I suppose.

Easy tips to stop sucking, friends?

P.S: I'm the guy who lose 1 vs 1 vs humans 80% of times and vs vampires 90%.... Ok, 99,9%... The problem is real.

Firehex
20th Oct 2014, 15:55
Did you play games like l4d ? Most important part is teamwork. No rambo style solo running. Some tips for you:
1. When play humans your team should spread out,but everyone must see each other.
2. Don't waste special abilities if you are not sure. Maybe you will need it very soon for saving your teammate.
3. As human play hunter class - most balanced and easy to master right now.
4. Don't try sentinel and alchimist if you are so bad.
5. As a vampire try to attack with your team at once. Solo trying most time is a waste .

-Konf-
20th Oct 2014, 16:15
Hi Eremos,

It's really hard to give specific advice without actually knowing what to comment on, but I'll try to share some of my own experiences in case that helps.

Humans:
When I first started playing Nosgoth I was struggling with Humans a lot as I haven't played a shooter for close to a decade. My early impression was that Humans are harder to play. Even though positioning, decision making and picking a target are important, I found that the most crucial performance indicator is your aim. And that just takes practice and a lot of it. As to the general way to play Humans:
- Stick together;
- Don't lose line of sight with your team;
- Peel for your team mates (e.g. if you see a person disabled by a pounce in a middle of a fight - try to set them free as a priority);
- Don't chase the kill if you can't finish it while your team mate is under attack (Vampire escapes, team mate dies);
- Don't hug one another if Vampire team composition is AoE heavy;
- Learn Vampire ability audio cues so that you know when to dodge;
- Improve your decision making as to when to attack or ignore a Vampire under crowd control effect;
- Keep your eyes open and try to spot from which side the Vampire team will be engaging so that you can react.

Vampires:
I got very interested in the game and was watching all the video footage I could find while waiting on my beta invite, so perhaps it felt natural for me when I started playing the game. The most important bit here is to learn when to attack, when to retreat and the best ways to do so. General tips:
- Don't rush in one by one, attack together;
- Don't expose yourself so that Humans can't shoot you from afar and so you have a chance to attack;
- Try to mess up their aim with rolling around them in between your attacks;
- Know your maps and plan your engage so that you can also retreat effectively;
- Keep practising your skill shots and landing basic attacks.

Not sure how helpful that is, but I hope you'll find something in it. It takes time to get good at something, and as long as you like this game - keep trying and you will improve over time.

One general suggestion from personal experience - when I try to learn to play the game I sometimes look up experienced people do it. If you're really keen on getting better - try to find some good footage or stream and analyse what experienced player does differently and what works effectively - and practice.

--Ram--
20th Oct 2014, 16:25
The biggest problem that can make a vampire team lose a game is people attacking ahead of the team and getting ripped apart. The equivalent for humans is getting separated from the group and getting picked off, giving up a free kill and allowing the vampires a 4v3 engagement to follow up, which they will likely win.

This stuff is teamwork oriented and not always under your control. Sometimes you are playing with a guy that will just mindlessly attack over and over without any thought. If you play with this guy you usually lose, but try to work with him. It may be less than ideal but it is better to try and attack with him than to let him die stupidly by himself.

Vampires
The most important thing for vampires is to first get the whole team into a position where they can attack (close to humans but not vulnerable) before anyone engages. Then try to attack as a group in a sensible manner so that everyone contributes.

1. Try to be evasive while you fight. If you are just mashing attack and moving straight toward a human you are going to be hit by every shot. Remember to throw in rolls between attacks, and change directions as you fight.
2. You move fastest as a vampire if you alternate attack -> roll -> attack -> roll. This is significantly faster than running and should also be used when chasing.
3. Try to use charged attacks when appropriate. Often you can duck behind a corner and charge an attack while a human unknowingly chases you, and hit him with it as he rounds the corner, significantly increasing your chance of winning the fight. You can turn slightly during these attacks.
4. Don't be afraid to disengage if things aren't going your way, as a vamp you get the choice of when to fight so use this to your advantage. Denying the enemy a kill is as good as getting one yourself. As a vamp i always try to do as much damage as possible without actually dying. If you at least live long enough to get a second round of abilities off that can be huge for your team. If you get out with a scrap of health and your team cleans up the rest, allowing you to feed, that is huge. You don't always need to fight to the bitter end.
5. Try to catch low health humans healing and kill them as they do it (often an easy kill vs an isolated low health target).

Humans
The most important factor for success as humans is for all team members to keep line of sight of each other, while maintaining some distance (meaning free damage as vampires move from one target to the next, and less damaging aoe abilities)

1. Humans is mainly about positioning and aim, and using abilities well. Missing a bola 1v1 likely means you die. If you bola the sent flying at you he is ****ed.
2. If you are going to die it is usually best to just keep doing as much damage as possible to help your team. The guy that runs away dies anyway and does a lot less damage.
3. If you are being attacked try to shoot and circle or throw in the odd roll to forced missed attacks (the roll is situational, sometimes the loss of dps is not worth it, but if you dodge an ability it is very helpful)
4. Try to lead attackers away from your team rather than toward them, so that if you die there is distance between him and his next target. But definitely avoid moving such that your team cannot shoot the guy off you, keep lines of sight in mind as much as possible
5. If you fend off a vampire and he retreats on low health, it is always tempting to focus on finishing him off. While this helps if you succeed and is sometimes the best call, sometimes it is even more beneficial to switch targets to a more immediate threat. If a teammate dies while you finish the vamp off that is an even trade. If you save that teammate by switching target you lose nothing, and that vamp that almost died is still low and an easy pick off next time around.
6. Try to escort low health teammates to the heal station and cover them.
7. Konf's tip about peeling is super important. If you damage a sentinel carrying off a teammate he will drop him prematurely which really helps. If you don't get that reaver off your teammate's face because you are shooting a tyrant in the distance that teammate will:
a) hate you
b) possibly die for no reason

Class selection
Don't be afraid to change class if things aren't working out. It may not be optimal to play scout if the vamps aren't giving you any space to work or your team isn't defending you. It's best to avoid playing alchemist f there are sents everywhere. If there is a scout destroying your team pick deceiver and attack him from behind, or throw a reaver bomb on his face so he drops his draw (99% of the time) allowing the team to move in without getting half killed in the process. Don't be a leap tyrant if the scout has a war bow and will knock you out of the sky.

It is often advantageous to check what classes the enemy team has selected (using tab) before selecting your class. Also waiting until the last second to choose a class at the start of the round denies the enemy this luxury.

Couple of class specific tips
I usually play prophet/hunter and deciever/reaver

As prophet or hunter I generally run poison bola/hex shot. Effective use of these abilities in a fight goes a long way. Its best however to try and target someone you are pretty sure you can hit rather than chancing it on a vamp dodging everywhere (until you are practiced at timing roll and attack animations). For me this is usually:

1. A tyrant just as his leap lands or charge expires (almost guaranteed hit, can deny his follow up ground slam)
2. Sentinel flying towards you (probably the most valuable use of ability if you land it, bad sentinels almost always
get hit, good sents can make it difficult for you)
3. Any enemy attacking a teammate (Often easier to predict and land a shot if the guy is not in your face at the time, often just aim at the guy being attacked and it will land)
4. Enemies running straight at you (good enemies wont do this, but many aren't good and make your job easy)
5. Cloaked deceivers who are walking down a narrow hallway or path towards you (listen for footsteps/audio cues, look for smoke puffs when you shoot them)

If you hex shot a guy sometimes it is better to leave him standing around for the full 3.5 seconds and shoot someone else, rather than damaging him and breaking the crowd control effect.

As deceiver I play a hit and run style. If i can get to an enemy without using disguise I will go in first and infect them, then use disguise -> re-engage with the team, then call it from there. Often I use shroud or just a wall/obstacle to disengage again, and use a second round of disguise + infect. Vs a good team you will likely need to use disguise to get near them (don't ever use human form by the way)

As a Reaver I use choking haze as I attack to disrupt, not just for chip damage prior to the fight. In my opinion this is far more valuable. I want to be in the teams face as the bomb pops, so they are forced to fight me in its radius, or take free hits and a kick to the face as they move away. Ideally i land a kick while they are in the poison so they are stunned in there and die :)

Cristari
20th Oct 2014, 20:03
This post should have had a poll in it to ask what is your W/L Ratio 30, 60, 90

I also have a 30+% W/L ratio. I play in random groups all the time and the main reason for loosing is that I'm playing in random groups. No one will do any or all of the suggestions above there are a lot of solo-rambo's out there and those that haven't a clue what they are doing (I'm talking to you Lvl 4 heroes that jump into TDM instead of Rookie matches).

For me the most important stat in this game is Assists/Heals. This shows you are a team player and that is all that matters.

FYI if you are in a pre-made group/playing with friends you will always win. Until they bring in a decent matchmaking system that works and doesn't match Party v random's then you will always get that loosing feeling.

--Ram--
21st Oct 2014, 03:43
Just wanted to add that it's cool to see you actually seek advise and try to improve rather than just complain about crappy teams or bad matchmaking (despite the fact that these things always contribute to your stats, for better or worse).

RoflBalast
21st Oct 2014, 11:32
Easy guide on how to wreck everyone with humans:
Hunter:
Deadeye,siege,toxic bola, explosive shot - hold m1, use explosive shot on cooldown, bola into red tyrants, sents, others. Use your crossbow to damage vampires before they engage, making fight easier. Hunt lowhp/solo vamps. Preferably have someone from your team doing same.

Alchemist:
Bad against sents if you can't airshot them, don't pick multicannon(too much smoke and average dps)- stay with everyone, check roofs, keep your clip full for engage, fire 3 shots in 1 vamp and enjoy red cloud.

Scout:
If you are good with aiming: invis, hook, standart bow, deadeye - 1) jump on a roof 2)enemy sents/tyrants are under 50% hp 3) Your team get easy kills 3) sents repick or ragequit. Use your hook for jukes. If you are bad with aiming or against reaver/deceiver combo: don't pick. Your "hard counter" is sweeping kick.

Prophet: 2 builds - Hunter and Medic. Medic doesn't work when you have no team. Hex into sents for easy kill or into redtank to save your team.

Eremos
21st Oct 2014, 13:24
Thanks for your help, friends!! It actually works!

Changed my main as human from Scout to Hunter, much easier to aim and better in short distance combat. In 1 vs 1 fights your peeling advices really helped! Attack -> Roll -> Attack, specially for vampires, make you take less damage and move faster.

Playing as a vampire I changed my mindset to put as much dmg as possible while staying alive. So I usually go in just for a few seconds and then scape, even if I'm not in inmediate danger. Working for the moment. I'll take more risks if I stop sucking for a little bit longer.

And thats all, just playing more passive, staying grouped, or waiting for my team, and my scores dramatically increased. Now I even enjoy loses!! :D

And yeah, matchmaking sucks major ass, but it can't be helped, and winning don't necessary mean you are playing good. I've been ****ed a lot of times by this matchmaking, but I know I could've played better. So I focus on what I can do.

Saikocat
21st Oct 2014, 15:53
They say practice makes perfect. Perfect might be an exaggeration, but it definitely helps! With any PVP game, I find that trying different things out is so useful. You might find tactics that work well for others, just don't suit you, and something a little different does. I have seen people do fantastic things with a Bow, but I'm not one of those people, I'm not a sniper. So similarly, I run Hunter a lot of the time, and tend to stray away from Scout most of the time. Testing the waters and experimenting is good, and you'll likely figure out your own strengths and play on those! If you play quite aggressively, it's good to hold back and see how you get on. In a lot of shooters I run and gun and try to get in the middle of the action, but it pays to be a bit safer, and less of a lone wolf (or lone vampire...)

There's some great tips already in this thread, but one thing you could do as well is keep an eye out for streams on Twitch.tv from high level players. The next best thing to practicing yourself, is watching other people play and picking up some tips from them.

In relation to matchmaking, we're aware it isn't where it should be at, and it is something we are working to improve:

http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/nosgoth-matchmaking-past-present-and-future
http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/matchmaking-party-system-progress-update

cmstache
22nd Oct 2014, 00:46
I really recommend getting in with some of the veteran players who are currently active. Don't be afraid to PM them and ask for tips after they kill you. :) Twitch helps, but just be careful. Some people only think they understand the mechanics, which can do more harm than good if they "teach" them to you. And as Cat said, what works for them might not work for you. Try to actively stay on the raidcall group and get parties/ ask for help, or even PM the community guide writers, they are usually credible in a situation.

The more information you get, the better off you are.

--Ram--
22nd Oct 2014, 05:32
Thanks for your help, friends!! It actually works!

Changed my main as human from Scout to Hunter, much easier to aim and better in short distance combat. In 1 vs 1 fights your peeling advices really helped! Attack -> Roll -> Attack, specially for vampires, make you take less damage and move faster.

Playing as a vampire I changed my mindset to put as much dmg as possible while staying alive. So I usually go in just for a few seconds and then scape, even if I'm not in inmediate danger. Working for the moment. I'll take more risks if I stop sucking for a little bit longer.

And thats all, just playing more passive, staying grouped, or waiting for my team, and my scores dramatically increased. Now I even enjoy loses!! :D

And yeah, matchmaking sucks major ass, but it can't be helped, and winning don't necessary mean you are playing good. I've been ****ed a lot of times by this matchmaking, but I know I could've played better. So I focus on what I can do.

Stoked to hear that some of this has helped. Would be good if more players in the community would adopt this kind of attitude.

SmurfPoopie
25th Nov 2014, 04:47
Don't spray and pray as a hunter unless they are super close range and you have good aim. Use it like a semi-auto weapon and tap fire.

PencileyePirate
26th Nov 2014, 02:44
Did you play games like l4d ? Most important part is teamwork. No rambo style solo running. Some tips for you:
1. When play humans your team should spread out,but everyone must see each other.
2. Don't waste special abilities if you are not sure. Maybe you will need it very soon for saving your teammate.
3. As human play hunter class - most balanced and easy to master right now.
4. Don't try sentinel and alchimist if you are so bad.
5. As a vampire try to attack with your team at once. Solo trying most time is a waste .

Best advice in thread.