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IllusiveConman
2nd Oct 2015, 20:35
Wing Scythes
"Glide with wings spread wide, cleaving through anything and everything in your path"
basically this ability will have the Sentinel spread their wings wide as they dive, cleaving humans for a certain amount of damage and put a bleed effect on them.
Got the idea from thinking that the sentinels needed some new abilities and suited their style, and using kidnap/Abduct made me wonder why didn't they cleave with their wings, given how powerful they are, seeing as they can use puncture.
If any of you think its worth talking about leave a comment, its always welcome :)

Fatereaver
2nd Oct 2015, 20:37
I really like this idea, it would be awesome as hit and run harassment move. Can already imagine the sentinels grafting metal blades to their wings to slice up the unwary humans down below. :D

ParadoxicalOmen
3rd Oct 2015, 14:39
Personally i'm more of a fan of the idea of having fire based special ability.
This was discussed a lot in this thread (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=155278).

But honestly, anything that is different than abduct/kidnap would be nice to give the Sentinel a bit of variety...

Firehex
3rd Oct 2015, 17:50
If this ability will be instead of abduct - then it is nice =)

Ygdrasel
3rd Oct 2015, 18:05
Agreed with Paradox. Would rather some kind of fire but anything would be nice.

TheDreamcrusher
4th Oct 2015, 03:05
In that other thread, Ygdrasel talked about a body slam ability for sentinel. That could be a modified version of Takeoff. It'd be neat to take off with a human and arc over to another spot on the ground to continue the attack.

I think it'd be cool to see sentinels take on a fire orientation along with a talent to change how the play styles work. Sentinel is a strong single target attacker and does well at singling out those targets. A stream of fire sprayed on the ground along a sentinel's flight path was discussed so that could be a multi-target option. A single target option might look too much like Infect unless it was a single hot-shot ray at a target.

Now, just running wild with my imagination, I could see a sentinel firing off rays from flight or on the ground. Maybe a variation to mode of use would be a single 250 damage ray from flight, or up to 3 blasts while in "firing mode" on the ground. There would need to be a significant amount of time between blasts so humans have a chance to avoid taking damage from each one. That might be too much since sentinel could play artillery without ever necessarily needing to be direct combat much.

So maybe a cone of fire would be appropriate so it's not the same as Flamethrower. A wide area attack that dealt around 200-250 damage. Possibly that had a damage-over-time effect, and maybe with a talent increased damage to those also affected by Wing Flap to fan the flames. That same talent could also affect Air Strike in a creative way.

ParadoxicalOmen
4th Oct 2015, 13:27
I feel that, in general, we have too few magical/arcane/elemental abilities...like dominated mind, backstab (eldridge blade), shadow step etc...with the exception of the summoner ofc...

Sentinel has none i think...the closest is screech i guess. I really like most ideas, such as the body slam...but i'd much prefer if they came of with something more arcane.
The Razielim were the strongest clan after all, they had to have something right?

IllusiveConman
4th Oct 2015, 17:06
Interesting feedback guys, not too sure about fire based special ability though, fire and vampires seldom mix unfortunately but maybe some other type of projectile would certainly be a welcome addition as a special ability.

Fatereaver
4th Oct 2015, 18:36
People people... We are discussing one ability here, the wing scythes, enough with the fire sorcery derailment. I honestly think it is a bit disrespectful of you towards the original poster. If you want to discuss fire sorcery then discuss that in the thread it belongs to please.
I am not trying to be a bastard towards you, but think how you would feel if someone came into your thread with the "we just came into your suggestion thread to start discussing this other thing instead" attitude. Again I am sure you didn't mean to come off that way, but that was the way you came off in my eyes.

Honestly though, the wing scythes to me sounds like a natural progression of the skills and abilities already available and a nice alternative to what we already have.

Ygdrasel
4th Oct 2015, 22:14
People people... We are discussing one ability here, the wing scythes, enough with the fire sorcery derailment. I honestly think it is a bit disrespectful of you towards the original poster.

The discussion may originate on 'wing scythe' but the broader scope of that still permits talk to drift to other ideas for abilities. Personally, given the overall uselessness of Air Strike, I think the Sentinel could use some ability that isn't done from flight. Also, puncture works because there are sharp protrusions at the end of the wing. The edges aren't exactly designed for cleaving anything. And it may fit well with current options but many would rather have new abilities that fit with lore and background.

@Conman: It would presumably be a spell that casts fire at the enemy, not back toward the vampire. No mixing of vamp and fire there. And Kain had a fire blade himself once, not to mention Magnus - you are familiar with him, I'd hope - with his (awesome) immolation gift.

@Dreamcrusher: Envisioned a Sentinel using his wings to contain and direct a torrent of fire (imagine mid-wing flap, before they're brought back into resting position). So it's an attack done while grounded but still utilizes the wings. Whatever happens, the fire should be blue like The Fane. Because orange fire is old hat.

ParadoxicalOmen
4th Oct 2015, 23:06
The discussion may originate on 'wing scythe' (...) puncture works because there are sharp protrusions at the end of the wing. The edges aren't exactly designed for cleaving anything. And it may fit well with current options but many would rather have new abilities that fit with lore and background.

Agreed, beside...if you tried to hit someone with you wings while flying, you'd fall right?



@Conman: It would presumably be a spell that casts fire at the enemy, not back toward the vampire. No mixing of vamp and fire there. And Kain had a fire blade himself once, not to mention Magnus - you are familiar with him, I'd hope - with his (awesome) immolation gift.

Yup...and if not sorcery, Razielim could still use alchemy to make the fire (they made a bomb after all -> air strike)


Whatever happens, the fire should be blue like The Fane. Because orange fire is old hat.

Blue fiyah, yesss.

Ygdrasel
5th Oct 2015, 00:17
Yup...and if not sorcery, Razielim could still use alchemy to make the fire (they made a bomb after all -> air strike)

I still prefer to think they raided the Red Sisters for those. After all, the Sisters initially stole the formula for all of their weapons from the vampires so reprisal makes sense. Also that stuff was stolen from Melchahim rather than Razielim, suggesting it was Melchiah's brood who handled alchemy either way and just passed the constructed bombs off after the fact for Razielim usage.

But really, the image of Sentinels mixing this stuff up in labs or something is just considerably less awesome than them attacking enemy supplies and weaving fire spells. Blue fire though...Yessss.

And yeah, you'd definitely fall trying to wing-cleave anybody. XD

Fatereaver
5th Oct 2015, 17:17
Except we are talking about super strong and durable beings here that are crashing into a normal humans at high velocity. If you add metal blades to the mix you would cut your prey while pushing them to the side based on the shape of the wing. Add knockback to the ability and I think it would be a nice addition to the Sentinel arsenal. But guys you linked to that sorcery page so why not keep the discussion over a fire based attack there instead? As you are clearly more interested in that anyway...

ParadoxicalOmen
6th Oct 2015, 01:48
Except we are talking about super strong and durable beings here that are crashing into a normal humans at high velocity. If you add metal blades to the mix you would cut your prey while pushing them to the side based on the shape of the wing. Add knockback to the ability and I think it would be a nice addition to the Sentinel arsenal. But guys you linked to that sorcery page so why not keep the discussion over a fire based attack there instead? As you are clearly more interested in that anyway...

Indeed i'm more of a fan of the fire spellcasting...so i'll leave it to the other post since you're getting upset about us talking about it...

So back to the wing cleave ability...the Razielim wings aren't blades, so they wouldn't slice through the humans. That being said, even if the wings were hard as metal (they probably are), if they were to hit a human with their wings while flying they would fall...the Sentinel is proportionate to any human, it would be similar to hit a crate while flying (you'd fall).

I'm much more a fan of Ygdrasel's "seismic toss" idea :D
hyQDlicdoig

Ygdrasel
6th Oct 2015, 02:15
^ Literally could not be a more perfect example. XD

Give them a seismic toss and that thing I mentioned to Dreamcrusher, I'd use Sentinel way more often.

TheDreamcrusher
6th Oct 2015, 02:16
I made a suggestion last year for something like a fly-by slash attack. Basically a flying equivalent of Sweeping Kick and an alternative to Abduct and Kidnap. A low cool down, say around 10 seconds, would allow pretty continuous flying harassment with liberal use of Air Strike or Takeoff. I'm for it. More unique primaries please.

edit: Haha, that gif. Yep, that too would be cool.

Ygdrasel
6th Oct 2015, 02:27
I made a suggestion last year for something like a fly-by slash attack. Basically a flying equivalent of Sweeping Kick and an alternative to Abduct and Kidnap. A low cool down, say around 10 seconds, would allow pretty continuous flying harassment with liberal use of Air Strike or Takeoff. I'm for it. More unique primaries please.

edit: Haha, that gif. Yep, that too would be cool.

Something like that could do as well. Sentinel flies in, arms spread, then brings them in to slash the human with both hands...

(Speaking of Air Strike, it kinda sucks.)

TheDreamcrusher
6th Oct 2015, 04:55
(Speaking of Air Strike, it kinda sucks.)

Why?

So for the fly-by attack, it could also follow a fixed attack animation in a ~ shape horizontally along the ground, with 2 separate claw swipes, that has decreased or increased distance covered based on the sentinels flight speed when the ability is used. It makes it an interesting move because there's a pattern to learn and perfect and provides good defensive movements around objects. Might be easier to predict than Abduct/Kidnap because sentinels will aim for alleys.

Fatereaver
7th Oct 2015, 13:28
Well I know the wings are not blades so that is why I thought grafting blades to them would be a good idea ParadoxicalOmen, also I was not really upset, I just thought we should keep the discussions separate for tidiness's sake and for giving both abilities a chance to get added instead of them competing with each other, the more abilities available the better I say.

Vampmaster
7th Oct 2015, 13:42
Indeed i'm more of a fan of the fire spellcasting...so i'll leave it to the other post since you're getting upset about us talking about it...

So back to the wing cleave ability...the Razielim wings aren't blades, so they wouldn't slice through the humans. That being said, even if the wings were hard as metal (they probably are), if they were to hit a human with their wings while flying they would fall...the Sentinel is proportionate to any human, it would be similar to hit a crate while flying (you'd fall).

I'm much more a fan of Ygdrasel's "seismic toss" idea :D
hyQDlicdoig

That's dive bomb on steroids. Ultimately the same ability with a bigger buildup and bigger effects.

IllusiveConman
7th Oct 2015, 19:38
Why?

So for the fly-by attack, it could also follow a fixed attack animation in a ~ shape horizontally along the ground, with 2 separate claw swipes, that has decreased or increased distance covered based on the sentinels flight speed when the ability is used. It makes it an interesting move because there's a pattern to learn and perfect and provides good defensive movements around objects. Might be easier to predict than Abduct/Kidnap because sentinels will aim for alleys.

Don't forget its also sticky, so any unlucky human can get stuck with it.
Air strike in my opinion is a very situation based weapon but otherwise its useful, I don't consider it useless or unbalanced

TheDreamcrusher
7th Oct 2015, 19:43
Don't forget its also sticky, so any unlucky human can get stuck with it.
Air strike in my opinion is a very situation based weapon but otherwise its useful, I don't consider it useless or unbalanced

Oh, I was asking Ygdrasel his thoughts on Air Strike. I think it's fine but I just wanted to hear his opinion. For the second paragraph I was describing an alternate to Abduct and Kidnap.

IllusiveConman
7th Oct 2015, 20:04
That's dive bomb on steroids. Ultimately the same ability with a bigger buildup and bigger effects.

pretty much.

IllusiveConman
7th Oct 2015, 20:18
I don't believe that a sentinel would be forced to land if wing cleave was used, more so it would knock down any humans in the way rather than falling, the strength behind those wings, added with the speed and velocity they enter in a diving motion. When I mentioned puncture it was mean't to illustrate that the sentinels have some power behind their wings not that they are particularly sharp, at that kind of speed and with that much power behind it, it could be possible that is all I am saying.

P.S. sorry for the late replies

ParadoxicalOmen
8th Oct 2015, 20:04
That's dive bomb on steroids. Ultimately the same ability with a bigger buildup and bigger effects.

Not so much...Dive bomb is an AOE attack, and you have to land.
The "seismic toss" idea is a single target ability, and you'd still be flying afterwords (at least that's how i imagined)...It'd be like a variation of the Tyrant's throw...except in THE AIR :D

GenFeelGood
10th Oct 2015, 23:51
What I desire for the Sentinel is a ground based special ability and an air based primary ability. That way you could be a fully airborne fighter, never needing to land except to feed; and a fully ground based fighter that never needs to leave the ground.

ParadoxicalOmen
14th Oct 2015, 21:37
What I desire for the Sentinel is a ground based special ability and an air based primary ability. That way you could be a fully airborne fighter, never needing to land except to feed; and a fully ground based fighter that never needs to leave the ground.

The more abilities the better :)

Ygdrasel
15th Oct 2015, 01:11
What I desire for the Sentinel is a ground based special ability and an air based primary ability. That way you could be a fully airborne fighter, never needing to land except to feed; and a fully ground based fighter that never needs to leave the ground.

Yessss.