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Saikocat
1st Oct 2015, 13:32
Leagues:


League Beta 2.0 starts today and will run from October 1st to 31st. It features awesome rewards, including cash prizes for the top 100 players, the Bloody Victor Alchemist skin, and chest keys. See Nosgoth.com for full info.
The in-game League UI has been updated to show prizes for each series
Terms and Conditions are now available for the new League series
More FairFight monitoring has been added for top League players






Leaver Penalty:


The tiered Leaver Penalty system has been removed for the time being, and has been reverted back to the simple leaver penalty system (10 minute matchmaking timeout, the match counts as a loss, and you receive League points loss)
Only the first leaver in a match will be punished, once one person has left you will be safe to leave the match as well, with no penalty.






Forfeit:


We're adding a forfeit system where if an imbalance is detected in the first few minutes of a ranked match (due to a leaver) we automatically end the match and don't count it. There's a window after the imbalance is detected where players have a chance to reconnect.






Bug Fixes:


Fixed an issue where you could get stuck while purchasing Runestones, if you lost connection during the process
Fixed issues with some matchmaking searching leading to errors for "Gathering data...", "Looking for best match" or "joining private match…‏"
Fixed an issue with the Deceiver's "Infect" ability
Improved the movement at the end stage of Shadow Step, where you previously could be pushed to the side
Updated the Inventory's Access Key UI art, to show the newer icons
Fixed Damage shown when a Grenade damages both Summoner Stalkers
Rousing Cry's item stats now show the radius of the area of effect
Fixed a bug that would sometimes leave a player stuck at "Assigning Team" after force starting a Private Match
Reconnect button now works after you are disconnected because of a network issue
Game now scales correctly on the vertical ultra wide screen
Adjusted the Summoner's "Deathly Shield" tooltip text
Fixed the cooldown smoke VFX (color) for the new Abilities (Deathly Shield and Bulwark)
Fixed an issue with some items not sorting alphabetically in the Inventory
Fixed a bug that caused Ability icons to space out incorrectly in the HUD
The Inferno player banners now have the correct rarity card and tooltip
General improvements and fixes to various localisation errors
The loadout and respawn text on the bottom of the UI now show correctly on 1024x768
The Capture the Body level requirement is now working/showing correctly
The toggled map can now be closed while you're dead
The "Killed By" screen will now show the weapon stats correctly for the Unique weapons (such as the Thorn of Eden bow)
Fixed a sound effect bug within the Forge, when hovering over the "Send to Forge"
Damage numbers now appear correctly when "Bulwark" is being performed
Fixed an issue with Bulwark's damage and VFX not being synchronized
The Vanguard's Axe no longer disappears when performing a dodge/roll right after a basic attack




Known Issues:


The Leagues tab may appear as empty when you skip through the end of match tab
The Summoner's Abyssal Bolt does not damage over time if it lands directly on a player
A crash may occur when quitting via the Loadout screen. Please ensure you aren't in the Loadout screen while quitting a match.
On very rare occasions it may be possible for a Human to spawn on the Vampire team. After dying, it will correct itself. Please report it to us if this happens to you.
Tutorial reward screens may be displayed multiple times, but this is just a UI issue
The 60 seconds Forfeit period restarts every time a player leaves the match
The Forfeit auto-end match in Ranked matches will only trigger after 2 players quit the match (this will be adjusted)
The amount of points lost or gained in the first qualification match (Ranked) may display a larger amount of points/loss than the actual amount. This is just a UI issue and does not affect your score.

Da_Wolv
1st Oct 2015, 13:42
Don't get me wrong - I like the option for forfeiting...
but did we have to test this with money on the line?

Not saying it won't work - but the track record hasn't been stellar lately :/

I am already apologizing in advance for being an insufferable **** over the next couple weeks, but I can imagine I won't be the only one overflowing with Salt.

Sasha_Vykos
1st Oct 2015, 13:49
is the new league a solo series, right? Like a single player game like this rquires of course.

Equanimityjohn
1st Oct 2015, 13:56
... I can imagine I won't be the only one overflowing with Salt.
Release the sodium!

What about that ESL money @Nosgoth?

SirRudyMan
1st Oct 2015, 14:00
Leaver Penalty:


The tiered Leaver Penalty system has been removed for the time being, and has been reverted back to the simple leaver penalty system (10 minute matchmaking timeout, the match counts as a loss, and you receive League points loss)
Only the first leaver in a match will be punished, once one person has left you will be safe to leave the match as well, with no penalty.






Forfeit:


We're adding a forfeit system where if an imbalance is detected in the first few minutes of a ranked match (due to a leaver) we automatically end the match and don't count it. There's a window after the imbalance is detected where players have a chance to reconnect.



Liking this :D


P.S. I hope you folks can make League Beta 2.0 24/7 soon. Would be nice for the folks in Europe.

--Ram--
1st Oct 2015, 14:10
Europe is pure luxury compared with what Oceanic players deal with. Leagues only open while I sleep and there are no players so I have to play with **** ping or hope for one game after a 1-2 hour queue.

PencileyePirate
1st Oct 2015, 14:29
Is the party/duo system coming back with this league? Solo queues are garbage.

Da_Wolv
1st Oct 2015, 14:33
Is the party/duo system coming back with this league? Solo queues are garbage.

Garbage it is! Sorry.

Halpachino
1st Oct 2015, 14:41
I am still Dumbfounded that when 90 % of us said no to this cash for solo leagues thing and gave a page long list of why its a bad thing you still go ahead with it ?????????

Sasha_Vykos
1st Oct 2015, 14:42
I am still Dumbfounded that when 90 % of us said no to this cash for solo leagues thing and gave a page long list of why its a bad thing you still go ahead with it ?????????

I would like to understand the mental process behind their decision.. I am really curious about it.

Halpachino
1st Oct 2015, 14:50
I would like to understand the mental process behind their decision.. I am really curious about it.

At the moment all i can think of is pure and utter desperation to reel in players

AntiqueGod
1st Oct 2015, 14:51
Leagues are not 24/7? Are you serious? I wanted to die infront of my computer, because i would play whole day, whole week.
Guys ready to pakistan guys and asian salty boys

Saikocat
1st Oct 2015, 14:54
We're back online, everyone!

AntiqueGod
1st Oct 2015, 15:00
Make leagues 24/7, because 80% of players are from Europe... wtf guys?

AntiqueGod
1st Oct 2015, 15:04
Not fair at all, gg.

Louves
1st Oct 2015, 15:07
So it's solo-queue again. And queue dodging is still a thing. That's disappointing.

Saikocat
1st Oct 2015, 15:15
Release the sodium!

What about that ESL money @Nosgoth?

We'll be sharing some more news on that soon.


P.S. I hope you folks can make League Beta 2.0 24/7 soon. Would be nice for the folks in Europe.

We'd certainly like to! Once it'll be okay to run it 24/7 we'll let you guys know as soon as that can go ahead!


I am still Dumbfounded that when 90 % of us said no to this cash for solo leagues thing and gave a page long list of why its a bad thing you still go ahead with it ?????????

We posted a blog after the initial announcement, digging into it a bit more. Check that out on this page (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/deep-dive-nosgoth-leagues-season-1). There will be more specific news to follow regarding the ESL. Teams would be the focus in the future, but we're starting off first with the Solo Series.

LOFO1993
1st Oct 2015, 15:28
Rousing Cry's item stats now show the radius of the area of effect

Not true on my end. Still missing both in the armory and store description.

PencileyePirate
1st Oct 2015, 15:31
We posted a blog after the initial announcement, digging into it a bit more. Check that out on this page (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/deep-dive-nosgoth-leagues-season-1). There will be more specific news to follow regarding the ESL. Teams would be the focus in the future, but we're starting off first with the Solo Series.

How does more specific news help? Going ahead with cash prizes in a solo league is outright ignoring community feedback.

I doubt anyone is happy with parties coming "in the future," since we've been asking for it for the past few beta leagues ... this one is the kicker.

SirRudyMan
1st Oct 2015, 15:34
We'd certainly like to! Once it'll be okay to run it 24/7 we'll let you guys know as soon as that can go ahead!


Thanks for the fast reply Cat :)



I am still Dumbfounded that when 90 % of us said no to this cash for solo leagues thing and gave a page long list of why its a bad thing you still go ahead with it ?????????

90%? Where do you get that data from? I like the Solo Series, my MMR is better when I solo-queue. And what's wrong with cash prices for Solo League? I mean, I'm only gonna play Solo League, why shouldn't solo leaguers get cash prices? :scratch:

Da_Wolv
1st Oct 2015, 15:35
We posted a blog after the initial announcement, digging into it a bit more. Check that out on this page (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/deep-dive-nosgoth-leagues-season-1). There will be more specific news to follow regarding the ESL. Teams would be the focus in the future, but we're starting off first with the Solo Series.

Yes. And we still hated the idea, no matter how well you explain it.
I am not even in game for 5min and already I had 3 lobbies that people dodged.
I am already dreading the next couple of weeks, as everyone will be playing ranked and nobody will play Scrims anymore.
The ESL changes better be huge - otherwise I see no hope for this game.

There will be no choice in which game mode you will play:
Either you play alone, or you sit in an empty lobby with your teammates.

PS: Feel free to join in on my stream and watch me sit in lobbies all day.
Awesome stuff. -.-

kLauE187
1st Oct 2015, 16:01
lobby dodging still possible lol

Da_Wolv
1st Oct 2015, 16:04
lobby dodging still possible lol

Would be sad if it wasn't so funny... or did I mix those 2 up?

Firehex
1st Oct 2015, 16:09
So, again no balance changes and i can't play ranked with at least 1 friend ? Shame on you , devs. :mad:

Oghamsmith
1st Oct 2015, 17:05
Today's update and launch focuses solely on the ranked solo queue. You won't be able to team up with friends in solo queue no. Ranked parties is indeed something that we want to get up and running, but they still require more work before they're ready.

If you've got enough friends to form a team, you can of course potentially look to get involved with the ESL Weekly and Monthly cups. In fact, we've just gone into a bit more depth about our plans with ESL here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=174560&p=2168121#post2168121).

gzvirax
1st Oct 2015, 17:13
Today's update and launch focuses solely on the ranked solo queue. You won't be able to team up with friends in solo queue no. Ranked parties is indeed something that we want to get up and running, but they still require more work before they're ready.

If you've got enough friends to form a team, you can of course potentially look to get involved with the ESL Weekly and Monthly cups. In fact, we've just gone into a bit more depth about our plans with ESL here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=174560&p=2168121#post2168121).

Any chance you could elaborate on the "more work?" We did have duo parties in a previous league alpha, after all.

P.S. ESL is not a substitute or viable alternative for people who want to play league with friends.

MasterShuriko
1st Oct 2015, 17:52
Atm theres a bug that increases Ping. So this might be a gamekiller for most

Da_Wolv
1st Oct 2015, 17:54
If you've got enough friends to form a team, you can of course potentially look to get involved with the ESL Weekly and Monthly cups. In fact, we've just gone into a bit more depth about our plans with ESL here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=174560&p=2168121#post2168121).

That's all well and good - but for now, the mere existance of Ranked will make competitive play almost impossible, since you are actively discouraged from playing with your teammates.

uNborn-
1st Oct 2015, 17:54
Nosgoth Leagues Beta in a nutshell.


http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/f/f3/JOKER_burning_money_3_0600.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080829031739


Even after all of the criticism. After all of the dumbfounded players from ESL and beyond. You still went ahead with the leagues in its broken fashion and threw money at it. I have no words.

Sasha_Vykos
1st Oct 2015, 18:56
do u think that put EU players on NA server with 180 ping is a good idea right? Cause u're keep doing this since the first beta.. 3rd game in a row like this for me.


That's all well and good - but for now, the mere existance of Ranked will make competitive play almost impossible, since you are actively discouraged from playing with your teammates.

this is the point. So true. Consider it please. At least enable duo queue, still better than solo.

Arydious
1st Oct 2015, 19:50
I am already apologizing in advance for being an insufferable **** over the next couple weeks, but I can imagine I won't be the only one overflowing with Salt.

I am normally pretty chill but I already have plenty of sodium today, crashes, leavers, and brand new players SMH

SirRudyMan
1st Oct 2015, 21:04
Forfeit:


We're adding a forfeit system where if an imbalance is detected in the first few minutes of a ranked match (due to a leaver) we automatically end the match and don't count it. There's a window after the imbalance is detected where players have a chance to reconnect.



There's a bug in the forfeit system. A guy just left the lobby at the last second, but the game still started. So the game starts with 3v4 people. Here's the thing, the guy never returned cause he wasn't in the game to begin with, so the forfeit system doesn't activate and we're stuck in a 3v4 match.

Someone else leaves, so its 2v4, so by this time I know I don't get a penalty for leaving, so I also leave (after at least 3min). The rejoin button isn't there so I think the forfeit system is working, so I click the 'Play' button... guess what? They put me back in the same match, the same 2v4 match...

Someone found a loophole in this forfeit system and is abusing it... really annoying. This really takes the fun out of playing. I'll probably get a penalty for leaving the second time, which just isn't right. Please fix this bug! :(

Louves
1st Oct 2015, 21:19
I noticed a lot of warping since the new patch. It usally starts at the end of the first round (does not matter if I start as human or vampire) and it get continually worse. My ping is fine, my fps too and other people in my matches had the same problem.

Endsequenz
1st Oct 2015, 22:34
I just wanted to bring my feedback to this table too:


-


Aight I´m out.
Wish you guys fun with playing...
and as devs, getting feedback of money oriented players, that will bring you down now...
cuz it will not work, cuz you messed it up, by not bringing the lobby change.
Good show my friends...good show!
Maybe I will go for the skin them days too... dunno, not sure...can´t be bothered atm.
Back to cards....

:rasp:

Ps: us>eu i guess...hihihi

Gugulug5000
1st Oct 2015, 23:12
Here's my feedback on the leagues so far:

-The forfeit system is a nice addition. It saved me from two potentially awful games today. Good work in that regard.

-Prizes don't really seem worth it (except Eternal and Blood rank prizes). It seems lame that silver and bronze people get basically the same thing. Also, the skin being for blood league only seems like an unnecessary change. And did the amount of chest keys you can earn also go down? I don't understand the logic in that, considering the chests aren't very interesting anyway.

-Could we play with at least one friend again please? It seems kind of silly to force everyone to play solo in a team oriented game. Now since so many people play ranked, finding a match in a normal mode with a team is that much more difficult. I'd be okay with any size of team being permitted to enter ranked, but if that's too much, then how about we do 2 player teams again at least.

-Is there even any matchmaking done? It seems like I kept playing the exact same people the entire time, and the teams ended up being mostly the same every time. I'm now starting leagues 2/5/1 (wins/losses/ties) because I keep playing the same people (who are better at the game than me). I understand it's hard to have good match making with low player population, but it's kind of annoying to keep losing to the exact same people repeatedly. I don't know if you can really do much about this, but I thought I'd mention it.

-I also noticed an issue where I came into the game, clicked on profile, and the Summoner and Vanguard classes were gone. They still showed up in the armory and in a match though.

SirRudyMan
2nd Oct 2015, 15:48
Forfeit:


We're adding a forfeit system where if an imbalance is detected in the first few minutes of a ranked match (due to a leaver) we automatically end the match and don't count it. There's a window after the imbalance is detected where players have a chance to reconnect.



The forfeit system should also be activated when someone leaves at the last minute of the 1st round. The leaver never came back in the second round so it was a sure loss for us :(

Oghamsmith
2nd Oct 2015, 16:19
Any chance you could elaborate on the "more work?" We did have duo parties in a previous league alpha, after all.

P.S. ESL is not a substitute or viable alternative for people who want to play league with friends.
Duo queues are an entirely different beast to full party matchmaking. Each comes with their own specific challenges that need to be taken into consideration and addressed. Right now, we're focusing on one League format and looking to make it as enjoyable as possible. With that done, we'll take a look at other variants :).


Atm theres a bug that increases Ping. So this might be a gamekiller for most

Very odd, were you playing on Wifi by any chance?


That's all well and good - but for now, the mere existance of Ranked will make competitive play almost impossible, since you are actively discouraged from playing with your teammates.

Actively discouraged might be a tad strong there Mr Wolv. For the more competitive players Ranked Queues are always going to be a more appealing prospect, regardless of the prizes involved. Starting out with a solo queue while still testing reduces the number of variables at play, making testing significantly easier. Not only that, but it's easier for more players to get involved and have a blast.


Nosgoth Leagues Beta in a nutshell.


http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/f/f3/JOKER_burning_money_3_0600.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080829031739


Even after all of the criticism. After all of the dumbfounded players from ESL and beyond. You still went ahead with the leagues in its broken fashion and threw money at it. I have no words.
Nosgoth is still in beta, as such elements of the game will be less than ideal during this period. Alongside the launch of this season, we did introduce a number of fixes and improvements that have addressed some of the concerns that have been raised by players previously. Nosgoth is still in Beta. Leagues are still in beta. We continue to work to improve League's where we can.

Incidentally, we announced improvements to the ESL system (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=174560) yesterday as well. We're not leaving ESL out in the cold, and we very much look forward to growing the playerbase over the coming months too.



do u think that put EU players on NA server with 180 ping is a good idea right? Cause u're keep doing this since the first beta.. 3rd game in a row like this for me.



this is the point. So true. Consider it please. At least enable duo queue, still better than solo.

Hmmm, have you got Europe selected as your preferential matchmaking region? Or perhaps you're playing late at night/early in the morning?


There's a bug in the forfeit system. A guy just left the lobby at the last second, but the game still started. So the game starts with 3v4 people. Here's the thing, the guy never returned cause he wasn't in the game to begin with, so the forfeit system doesn't activate and we're stuck in a 3v4 match.

Someone else leaves, so its 2v4, so by this time I know I don't get a penalty for leaving, so I also leave (after at least 3min). The rejoin button isn't there so I think the forfeit system is working, so I click the 'Play' button... guess what? They put me back in the same match, the same 2v4 match...

Someone found a loophole in this forfeit system and is abusing it... really annoying. This really takes the fun out of playing. I'll probably get a penalty for leaving the second time, which just isn't right. Please fix this bug! :(
Very odd indeed...just double checking, this occurred in ranked, right?


I noticed a lot of warping since the new patch. It usally starts at the end of the first round (does not matter if I start as human or vampire) and it get continually worse. My ping is fine, my fps too and other people in my matches had the same problem.
Does this happen during every match for you? This all sounds very odd indeed.

SirRudyMan
2nd Oct 2015, 17:22
Very odd indeed...just double checking, this occurred in ranked, right?


Yes, during a ranked match. At least one other person (I know of) on the forum has the same problem. He posted it in this thread (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=174555&p=2168386#post2168386).

Probably a lot more people have this problem (cause I wasn't the only one in that match) but not all of them post it on the forum.

Fatereaver
2nd Oct 2015, 18:15
Here's my feedback on the leagues so far:

-Prizes don't really seem worth it (except Eternal and Blood rank prizes). It seems lame that silver and bronze people get basically the same thing. Also, the skin being for blood league only seems like an unnecessary change. And did the amount of chest keys you can earn also go down? I don't understand the logic in that, considering the chests aren't very interesting anyway.



Yeah, raising the rank for earning the skin, and lowering the amount of keys was not a very nice move, getting to gold rank felt plausible to me, but blood? Just the thought of that grind to get that alchemist skin makes me nauseous... I really don't think I will manage to get it this time... Which is crying shame for the skin is so nice looking... :( And we get bombarded with chests enough as it is, got 27+ at the time I am writing this, why on Earth did you lower the amount of keys!?

SirRudyMan
2nd Oct 2015, 19:30
These so-called "Leave Trollers" are really getting annoying. They join a lobby in pairs, one on each side. Then one leaves at 0 seconds when you hear the sound. The other one stays and has an easy win with a 4v3 match.

I got the names and profiles of two Leave Trollers, but sadly I can't post them here. The Forfeit System should be adjusted so Leave Trollers can't continue this form of cheating.

Sasha_Vykos
2nd Oct 2015, 20:17
Actively discouraged might be a tad strong there Mr Wolv. For the more competitive players Ranked Queues are always going to be a more appealing prospect, regardless of the prizes involved. Starting out with a solo queue while still testing reduces the number of variables at play, making testing significantly easier. Not only that, but it's easier for more players to get involved and have a blast.

.

Sorry but actively discoyraged is a perfect definition. Its now impossible to play with teammates since everyone want to grind solo, nobody play regular TDM and scrim are impossible to find. That's what u achieved^^

ProDoctoR1987
2nd Oct 2015, 20:52
We'll be sharing some more news on that soon.



We'd certainly like to! Once it'll be okay to run it 24/7 we'll let you guys know as soon as that can go ahead!



We posted a blog after the initial announcement, digging into it a bit more. Check that out on this page (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/deep-dive-nosgoth-leagues-season-1). There will be more specific news to follow regarding the ESL. Teams would be the focus in the future, but we're starting off first with the Solo Series.

Oh, that's good news. I hope with the next league 24/7 will be available agian like the first league. And maybe a ping limiter, so people with high ping can also play. If all people would just get the same ping (within a range of 10), so slow people down when needed, that would make things far more playable.

gzvirax
2nd Oct 2015, 21:52
Duo queues are an entirely different beast to full party matchmaking.
...

Right now, we're focusing on one League format and looking to make it as enjoyable as possible. With that done, we'll take a look at other variants :).


Maybe listen to the feedback? Solo leagues are not enjoyable at all, and much of the community has said so. This "focus" you describe is completely misplaced.

Many players don't care if we're given full party or duo leagues; we just want to play with friends.

Fatereaver
2nd Oct 2015, 22:07
I kinda like solo leagues... :S I was getting so tired of fighting against stacks of people all the time, but I really wish we could have both solo and party leagues side by side so everyone gets what they want in a perfect world.

Endsequenz
2nd Oct 2015, 22:17
I kinda like solo leagues... :S I was getting so tired of fighting against stacks of people all the time, but I really wish we could have both solo and party leagues side by side so everyone gets what they want in a perfect world.

Sounds like a great solution to me.
And then, after a short time of collecting players, change it to team-leagues play for money...and solo for skins maybe.
Something like that.

KaininitePriestess
5th Oct 2015, 16:14
I like Solo queues just fine. I usually only play solo because most of my friends aren't online when I am. What am I supposed to do, not play?

Oghamsmith
5th Oct 2015, 17:03
SirRudyMan, managing to manipulate that scenario on a consistent basis would be pretty tricky, but plausible. Please feel free to send me a PM with the names of those you feel are abusing the system.

gzvirax, while there are certainly a number of people who don't enjoy the solo queue, there are plenty who do as well.

FateReaver. As I've mentioned elsewhere, we're looking at the possibility of ranked parties; but right now our focus is on continuing to improve the solo queue. With that done, we can then begin to look at options for expansion.

SirRudyMan
5th Oct 2015, 17:55
SirRudyMan, managing to manipulate that scenario on a consistent basis would be pretty tricky, but plausible. Please feel free to send me a PM with the names of those you feel are abusing the system.

I've sent you a PM :)

P.S. the second PM contains larger screenshots, but they keep getting cropped, so you need to right click them and select "View Image" to see the full-sized image.

gzvirax
5th Oct 2015, 18:47
gzvirax, while there are certainly a number of people who don't enjoy the solo queue, there are plenty who do as well.

Using the word "plenty" is a stretch.

Most of the discussion I've seen on the forums is pretty frustrated/fed up with the current system.

Now I won't say solo league is the cause, but I noticed significantly fewer leavers and 3v4s during the league alpha that allowed duo parties. There is definitely some correlation between solo league and people not wanting to stay.

Oghamsmith
6th Oct 2015, 16:54
Using the word "plenty" is a stretch.

Most of the discussion I've seen on the forums is pretty frustrated/fed up with the current system.

Now I won't say solo league is the cause, but I noticed significantly fewer leavers and 3v4s during the league alpha that allowed duo parties. There is definitely some correlation between solo league and people not wanting to stay.

As is typical across the vast majority of service related forums out there, not only gaming based forums; the conversation that takes place skews disproportionately toward unhappy users. There are a number of reasons for that, but the biggest is that those players who're happy and having a blast playing the game, will continue to play the game rather than jumping onto the forum. Whereas players who are unhappy, will quite understandably want to have the issue that they're unhappy about addressed and fixed, so they'll come to the forum for info, and oftentimes then to contribute to discussion about the issue.

That's not to discount them the unhappy players; quite the opposite. We need to try and address the points that're making players unhappy. The above simply highlights why it can sometimes like like 60% of players don't like something, when in fact that's not the case.

KaininitePriestess
6th Oct 2015, 23:56
I'll be honest: I don't think I've seen anyone complaining that they can only play in a solo queue. Sure, it'd be nice to do the team queue/duo queue, but no one is sitting in the lobbies, gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands that they have to play the game without a BFF to back them up in the match. Most people don't even seem to realize it's a thing.

Endsequenz
7th Oct 2015, 00:55
As is typical across the vast majority of service related forums out there, not only gaming based forums; the conversation that takes place skews disproportionately toward unhappy users. There are a number of reasons for that, but the biggest is that those players who're happy and having a blast playing the game, will continue to play the game rather than jumping onto the forum. Whereas players who are unhappy, will quite understandably want to have the issue that they're unhappy about addressed and fixed, so they'll come to the forum for info, and oftentimes then to contribute to discussion about the issue.

That's not to discount them the unhappy players; quite the opposite. We need to try and address the points that're making players unhappy. The above simply highlights why it can sometimes like like 60% of players don't like something, when in fact that's not the case.

Kinda like saying, ppl that are going to the supermarket, are ppl that do not have food at home, mate.
You guys should always look over that. Cuz it´s not really a personal thing.
It´s a forum for gaming, which surely will be full of frustration and crtism...especially at this stage.
At the end of the day, that´s what you will need , to get where you want.
Maybe not that harsh... but we are sitting at home playing a videogame full of blood, guns and vampires...
But I also read you somehow see that, so fine I guess.


I'll be honest: I don't think I've seen anyone complaining that they can only play in a solo queue. Sure, it'd be nice to do the team queue/duo queue, but no one is sitting in the lobbies, gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands that they have to play the game without a BFF to back them up in the match. Most people don't even seem to realize it's a thing.

You are really funny. :D
You seem to have a sense to step into something, we in germany call "Fettnäpfchen", which means something like to step into a bowl of fat.
Wasn´t meant bad. ;)
Later guyz.

Sasha_Vykos
7th Oct 2015, 07:18
I'll be honest: I don't think I've seen anyone complaining that they can only play in a solo queue. Sure, it'd be nice to do the team queue/duo queue, but no one is sitting in the lobbies, gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands that they have to play the game without a BFF to back them up in the match. Most people don't even seem to realize it's a thing.

If u want to see someone complaining about the solo queue and all the league system you can simnply read this thread and other 2-3 speaking about it. Almost everyone is complaining. I still have to see somone that say something completely positive about the solo league. Maybe the players that always play alone can also be happy, but been this a TEAM BASED game, the concept of solo alone is the opposite of what the game should be. Plus, as i said before, as a ESL player it's now far more difficoult to play with teammates, find scrims and play regular tdm (so difficoult to find decent matches nowadays, with huge waiting times).

Da_Wolv
7th Oct 2015, 08:14
I'll be honest: I don't think I've seen anyone complaining that they can only play in a solo queue. Sure, it'd be nice to do the team queue/duo queue, but no one is sitting in the lobbies, gnashing their teeth and wringing their hands that they have to play the game without a BFF to back them up in the match. Most people don't even seem to realize it's a thing.

Because most people just play the game by themselves.
The majority of forum users are veteran players and/or ESL players that were drawn in by the promise of a very well realized, thematic, asymetric, competitive multiplayer game... and then you can only play by yourself and the team focussed part of the game is getting less attention than the grindy, solo queue part.

Noone is saying there aren't players who enjoy this game. If I would only play Solo, I wouldn't mind Leagues.
Theres literally nothing to lose if you would just play Solo anyway; but for those of us with teams, this game is currently unplayable.
And yes - unplayable - I don't know how other players do it, but I have to lock my steam account, change my picture and my name at least 10 times before I can get into lobbies without people recognizing me and jumping ship immediately.

Since winning is secondary to just playing games, its no wonder that the top of eternal has straight up 4x as many games played as I have. And with the way things are going, I don't even need to bother. For every 30min. Lobby I get 1 game á 20. min, which roughly tallies to 1.2 Games/Hour...
League opens at 5 here, so maybe I get 4-6 games per day, which also means I won't be doing anything else that night. :thumb:

Oghamsmith
7th Oct 2015, 10:01
We're in agreement Endsequenz ;). Sorry, I was replying specifically to gzvirax's post. With the switch to the new page(by default), that context may have been missing. I've updated my post to add the quote and provide context to my comment.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but for those who haven't seen it yet. As the old adage goes, you've got to walk before you can run. We're working out the kinks with the League system with a solo queue at the moment, looking to fix irritations and bring it to a point that's even more enjoyable for all. As things begin to improve in that area, we can begin to turn more of our attention to potential duo or party based Leagues. That's why there's a focus on the solo League as things stand right now.

As part of those improvements that we're looking to make to the League system, the lobby dodging that you mention Da_Wolv is most certainly on our radar.

Screwby-Dew
7th Oct 2015, 10:24
I've mentioned this elsewhere, but for those who haven't seen it yet. As the old adage goes, you've got to walk before you can run. We're working out the kinks with the League system with a solo queue at the moment, looking to fix irritations and bring it to a point that's even more enjoyable for all.
So you guys are aware that the league is far away from being perfect at the moment but you still put money in it ?
I am baffled, it makes no sense, no sense at all... Whatever I won't bother anymore.

Endsequenz
7th Oct 2015, 10:46
We're in agreement Endsequenz ;). Sorry, I was replying specifically to gzvirax's post. With the switch to the new page(by default), that context may have been missing. I've updated my post to add the quote and provide context to my comment.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but for those who haven't seen it yet. As the old adage goes, you've got to walk before you can run. We're working out the kinks with the League system with a solo queue at the moment, looking to fix irritations and bring it to a point that's even more enjoyable for all. As things begin to improve in that area, we can begin to turn more of our attention to potential duo or party based Leagues. That's why there's a focus on the solo League as things stand right now.

As part of those improvements that we're looking to make to the League system, the lobby dodging that you mention Da_Wolv is most certainly on our radar.

:D Yeah dude, I must confess, that I kinda missed that you have answered to someone, when I answered.^^
But it was more meant to tell you that I understand the feelz that you guys must have atm... don´t let that bring you down to much. We all like the game basicly. ;)

And yes ofc you guys must learn to walk first, but they need to check a few things a bit better before they go that way.. cuz you see where it ends.
Most of the things you brought up are kinda good, but they have to be planed a bit better. For example cash prices need to be advertised better somehow, if you want to have a profit.
And also the order of things seems to be a bit of an issue... for example solo queues, which I personally love and need.
But I think it would have been better to first bring in maybe duo-queues and let ppl like me stay in tdm for the start, or feel forced to play with a friend more often. Which ofc will end up in a lot of whining too... but look at all the esl players who are the core of your game. They are a real pain in the happyface.. and as hard it is sometimes, I think we all understand them.
But we will get there. Keep up. Peace.

Vampmaster
7th Oct 2015, 10:46
@Oghamsmith, There are also plenty of us who aren't normally interested in competitive multiplayer games, but decided early on to give this game a chance because of it's connection to the LOK series or maybe just liked the advertisements or were introduced my a friend. We've stuck with it because we enjoyed playing with friends, but can't always compete with the really competitive gamers when we want to try for the lower end prizes. It's better to allow us to team up with friends who aren't going to give us a hard time if we mess up.

I'm aware that team leagues are planned though, and the lobby dodging is something I've noticed as well.

Da_Wolv
7th Oct 2015, 11:29
So you guys are aware that the league is far away from being perfect at the moment but you still put money in it ?
I am baffled, it makes no sense, no sense at all... Whatever I won't bother anymore.

Yep. You're not the only one.
at least they are admitting it now?! :whistle:

xeno2k
7th Oct 2015, 12:09
@Oghamsmith, in all honesty, have you even played solo league? You're saying there's plenty of people satisfied and positive about the current state of solo league, but the only people that could actually be happy are the ones that are horrible at the game and get boosted every single game (Eventhough I doubt that, because they probably get hated on a lot for being bad at the game). No one with a competitive mindset or decent set of skills in Nosgoth is enjoying this random mess of a matchmaking. Let me ask you, why are you pumping 10000$ into a league that you know isn't working as intended yet, that isn't about actual skill or teamplay. Look at the top20 in Eternal who's aiming for the money prizes. Half of them are players I've never ever seen before (I have 1200 hours on nosgoth) and the others are streamers/players that clearly have no job or other social activities to attend to. I managed to find around 25 games the past few games, there's currently players with 150~200 games played that have 1200 more points than I do. How am I supposed to catch up? Quite frankly I've been winning ESL 6 weeks in a row with my team but I seem to be unable to even get the alchemist skin in blood/eternal, unless I have to deprive myself from a social life/decent sleep.

Don't you think it's one big joke that people who have nothing better to do and spent all their sparetime on solo league earn more money than what i've earned the past few months by playing ESL where I put actual effort in with a team? And you guys are aiming towards competitive growth, at least you lads have a sense of humor. ;)

Twido8
7th Oct 2015, 12:30
So you guys are aware that the league is far away from being perfect at the moment but you still put money in it ?
I am baffled, it makes no sense, no sense at all... Whatever I won't bother anymore.

While I would be happier if there was no prize money for the solo league, I can see some benefit behind it.

The game is still in a kind of beta and the way leagues work is still being developed. To really test the system, the devs need the players to try their hardest to try and win. If there are exploits then people will find them to take advantage. If the pressure leads to unsociable behaviour then this will come out. If there was not such an incentive then maybe the players that are inclined to do so would not try so hard to break the system.

This benefit is balanced against the harm it is doing to the community though. The community is becoming more and more toxic each day, I can't even imagine what it must be like to be a new player starting out in the middle of this.

The problem is that if the prize money was retracted then there would be an even bigger **** storm and negative publicity. For better or worse I think we are stuck with it for this season.

MasterShuriko
7th Oct 2015, 12:31
Duo queues are an entirely different beast to full party matchmaking. Each comes with their own specific challenges that need to be taken into consideration and addressed. Right now, we're focusing on one League format and looking to make it as enjoyable as possible. With that done, we'll take a look at other variants :).



Very odd, were you playing on Wifi by any chance?



Actively discouraged might be a tad strong there Mr Wolv. For the more competitive players Ranked Queues are always going to be a more appealing prospect, regardless of the prizes involved. Starting out with a solo queue while still testing reduces the number of variables at play, making testing significantly easier. Not only that, but it's easier for more players to get involved and have a blast.


Nosgoth is still in beta, as such elements of the game will be less than ideal during this period. Alongside the launch of this season, we did introduce a number of fixes and improvements that have addressed some of the concerns that have been raised by players previously. Nosgoth is still in Beta. Leagues are still in beta. We continue to work to improve League's where we can.

Incidentally, we announced improvements to the ESL system (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=174560) yesterday as well. We're not leaving ESL out in the cold, and we very much look forward to growing the playerbase over the coming months too.




Hmmm, have you got Europe selected as your preferential matchmaking region? Or perhaps you're playing late at night/early in the morning?


Very odd indeed...just double checking, this occurred in ranked, right?


Does this happen during every match for you? This all sounds very odd indeed.

Nope Im not using wifi when I play. Im using my 100mb/s Broadband for it. And I have been in contact with your support about my issue but seeing Louves and alot of others having the same issues Im certain it isnt my machines / lines fault. Especially not since I have done ping tests to servers around Eu in order to get normal results. But as soon as I start up Nosgoth ping increases from time to time. Y-day I had a few matches that causes me to go over 100 ping and the next match I was down to normal 36 Ping.

Vampmaster
7th Oct 2015, 12:50
While I would be happier if there was no prize money for the solo league, I can see some benefit behind it.

The game is still in a kind of beta and the way leagues work is still being developed. To really test the system, the devs need the players to try their hardest to try and win. If there are exploits then people will find them to take advantage. If the pressure leads to unsociable behaviour then this will come out. If there was not such an incentive then maybe the players that are inclined to do so would not try so hard to break the system.

This benefit is balanced against the harm it is doing to the community though. The community is becoming more and more toxic each day, I can't even imagine what it must be like to be a new player starting out in the middle of this.

The problem is that if the prize money was retracted then there would be an even bigger **** storm and negative publicity. For better or worse I think we are stuck with it for this season.

^^This.

SirRudyMan
7th Oct 2015, 17:31
Only the first leaver in a match will be punished, once one person has left you will be safe to leave the match as well, with no penalty.



Well, this is not true. I just left a match where 2 people of my team left before me and I got a penalty and the match was counted as a loss :(

Oghamsmith
8th Oct 2015, 13:04
They are given a couple of minutes to reconnect. You need to wait for the chat message informing you that it's safe to leave.

Da_Wolv
8th Oct 2015, 16:55
Alright. This is a good a threat as any, since this is because of Leagues.

I am done.
I do not care anymore.
Just deinstalled this game.
It had great potential, but I cannot take this anymore.

I'd have loved to play more ESL, but its pointless anyway, what with all the server issues.
I do not care for League. All it does is make me angry at others and at myself for even caring.

So... ya - cya I guess.
If they ever decide to just roll out the build from December 2014 that worked well and had no problems, feel free to chat me up, but this... I am done.

SirRudyMan
8th Oct 2015, 17:37
They are given a couple of minutes to reconnect. You need to wait for the chat message informing you that it's safe to leave.

In the chat window? Haven't seen it. How many minutes do you have to wait? :scratch:

Firehex
9th Oct 2015, 01:55
Da_Wolv, seems someone vampire **** was placed on firewall :rasp: If you know what i mean :D
I got in blood league and will just play less...I really hope devs will improve current MM system before end of month. And we want league with friends :(

Oghamsmith
9th Oct 2015, 10:07
Da_Wolv, seems someone vampire **** was placed on firewall :rasp: If you know what i mean :D
I got in blood league and will just play less...I really hope devs will improve current MM system before end of month. And we want league with friends :(

We would certainly love to get some improvements in place before the end of the month.

**Makes another blood sacrifice**

...err...we're doing everything we can to make that happen.

Vampmaster
9th Oct 2015, 10:21
We would certainly love to get some improvements in place before the end of the month.

**Makes another blood sacrifice**

...err...we're doing everything we can to make that happen.

Does the current MM system take into account how much you win/lose by or just whether you win or lose? My team lost by 2 : 32 yesterday, when there's normally about 10 points difference, so there's no way that could be balanced. Also, I know some parts of personal performance can't easily be tracked, but I've been saying it should at least factor in a little bit (as an rough estimate) to avoid situations where one player performs significantly better or worse than who they're matched with.

Oghamsmith
9th Oct 2015, 10:39
Your overall performance is taken into consideration, as well as the comparative skill levels of the other players on both your team as well as the enemy's.

It is indeed difficult to factor in an individual's performance peaks and troughs, however as time passes and more matches are played the system will attempt to find somewhat of an average.

Louves
9th Oct 2015, 10:51
Alright. This is a good a threat as any, since this is because of Leagues.

I am done.
I do not care anymore.
Just deinstalled this game.
It had great potential, but I cannot take this anymore.

I'd have loved to play more ESL, but its pointless anyway, what with all the server issues.
I do not care for League. All it does is make me angry at others and at myself for even caring.

So... ya - cya I guess.
If they ever decide to just roll out the build from December 2014 that worked well and had no problems, feel free to chat me up, but this... I am done.

Sad to see how many people leave this game. But I can relate to that. Since the leagues patch I have to force myself to play because of the horrible lags. It happens almost every single game to the point that I can't even climb up buildings (I just teleport to the ground again and again) and abilities go on cooldown and disappear. And still no response from the devs if they will fix this problem.

Vampmaster
9th Oct 2015, 10:51
Your overall performance is taken into consideration, as well as the comparative skill levels of the other players on both your team as well as the enemy's.

It is indeed difficult to factor in an individual's performance peaks and troughs, however as time passes and more matches are played the system will attempt to find somewhat of an average.

We'd previously been told (I think by Corey) that the MMR was purely based on the W/L ratio. Was that wrong or has it been updated?

Wolf_the_Legend
14th Oct 2015, 20:23
I actually think he said its based on this: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/

FireWorks_
15th Oct 2015, 14:45
Alright. This is a good a threat as any, since this is because of Leagues.

I am done.
I do not care anymore.
Just deinstalled this game.
It had great potential, but I cannot take this anymore.

I'd have loved to play more ESL, but its pointless anyway, what with all the server issues.
I do not care for League. All it does is make me angry at others and at myself for even caring.

So... ya - cya I guess.
If they ever decide to just roll out the build from December 2014 that worked well and had no problems, feel free to chat me up, but this... I am done.

No wonder, but still a pity. Considering what youve done for the game and forums in the past months when other veterans moved on already. You kept up the good work of bug reports and point out the games short comings so things can be fixed. Nosgoth will lose another of its great beta testers, that took his assignment seriously. Burned brightly and burnt out in the end.


Welcome to the "it was a good game at some point" club.