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TheDreamcrusher
18th Sep 2015, 05:35
General purpose thread for feedback on the new talents. I'm opening with a post with suggestions for putting some frosting on some of the plainer talents. It'd be nice to get a little more incentive to use them, because the other, more specific talents are just awesome.

If anyone wants to post their feedback on how well the talents work here, feel free to do so too. I have a feeling some of the Prophet talents may be a bit much at this time. A 650 health Eldritch Shield is stroooong, lol.

Reaver
Agility - +30% Pounce, Savage Pounce, and Leap Attack velocity would be ideal, though 50% was very fun. Pounce and Savage Pounce damage over time increased by 15% (risk vs reward).
Nightstalker - +5% move speed, +20% wall climb speed, Evasion negates damage from all attacks for 4 seconds (including area of effect abilities), Shadow Step can be used twice if activated within 2 seconds after exiting the first Shadow Step
Frenzy - +5% attack speed, Haste increases charged melee lunge distance by 50%, each melee hit extends Haste by 0.5 seconds
Berserker - +20% move speed and 10% melee attack speed on kill, each finishing blow grants immunity to 1 disable, stagger, or knockdown for 5 seconds -from kLauE187
Dumah's Cunning - +10% cool down reduction, +20% Shadow Bomb and Choking Haze area size, effects of both cling to targets longer (SB highlight and CH damage)

Tyrant
Turel's Wisdom - +10% cool down reduction, using Ignore Pain or Enrage will activate regeneration
Brute - +5% melee damage, +20% radius size on abilities, immune to stagger and knockdown
Blood Thirst - +20% Execute health and +20% regen speed bonus, +30% move speed after an execution for 7 seconds (affects Charge/Marathon/Jump Attack)

Sentinel
Aerodynamics - 20% chance to take no damage while flying. This is the only talent I'd like to see functionally changed. I feel like it would give a better chance to oppose scouts, even if it is luck based.
Undying - +10% health, -20% damage taken while flying
Rapid Fury - +5% melee attack speed, +50% flight speed when Kidnap or Abduct is activated until a target is picked up

Deceiver
Madness - +5% melee attack speed, +10% increased dodge distance, +10% dodge cool down reduction
Zephon's Ruse - +10% cool down reduction, Backstab is silent OR Backstab hides the health of the target that was struck from human team mates, making him appear uninjured
Escape Artist - Your clones gain 5% increased move and 20% increased climb speed. Aiming at a clone and activating the ability again switches your position with your clone (single use). When in shroud, gain 15% increased movement speed and 25% increased climb speed but do -60% damage.
(Great for escaping close encounters, while not making the abilities incredibly OP. Switching the position is a bit random but could be used offensively, maybe having the AI behave differently - spreading out more - could make this even better.) -from Da_Wolv. It might be cool to be able to cycle through any living illusions by pressing the key again instead of aiming.

Summoner
Dark Pact - +10% health, +50 to stalker health and +100 to slayer health
Predation - Combine this with Ethereal Speed
Ethereal Speed - If not combined with Predation, +5% melee attack speed, +10% attack speed for ghouls
Melchiah's Agony - +10% cool down reduction, Abyssal Barrier lasts 5 seconds and is 20% larger, becomes a free floating object that maintains directional velocity when it was activated (moves the direction you were moving at the speed you were moving)
Abyssal Frenzy - Abyssal Bolt casting speed is increased by 25%, Hellstrike knocks affected targets down (Hellstrike casting speed should be normally what it is with the current Abyssal Fury, +25% speed)

Hunter
Demolitions - Explosives radius is increased by 30%, explosives damage is increased by 10%, damage falloff is decreased, and Grenade and Sticky Grenade have their cool-down reset if a vampire dies to either
Tactician - Bola and Poison Bola have +25% increased velocity and last 1 second longer, Whip cool down is reduced by 20% and has 25% longer reach.

Alchemist
Volatile Munitions - Cannon projectiles explode after traveling 1000 units and have a larger burst. Creates a short range, flak type of effect so sentinels are easier to target and projectiles cannot bounce. Using Shockwave as a distance reference.
Anarcrothe's Flame - Ability cool downs reduced by 10%, each enemy affected by Sunlight Vial, Light Bomb, and Immolation empowers Firewall, Flamethrower, Poison Cloud, or Healing Mist by 20% and 0.5 seconds up to 5 times. This stack is reset if you die.

Prophet
Lifedrinker - 20% of max health restored on kill, Disabling Curse inflicts no damage but purges beneficial effects, Draining Curse decreases attack and movement speed by 5% for each tick of damage

Scout
Stocked Quiver - Increased clip size and maximum ammo, Throw Knives tosses 5 blades in a wider fan, and Mark Target has a cooldown of 8 seconds

GenFeelGood
18th Sep 2015, 06:07
Overall I'm enjoying them, my Vanguard has his shield back to its former glory and my Reaver can propel himself over half the map in a single pounce.

I hope they add more later, like being able to fly faster as a Sentinel; and maybe we can get back the jump cancel for the Tyrant in the form of a talent.

TheDreamcrusher
18th Sep 2015, 06:18
Overall I'm enjoying them, my Vanguard has his shield back to its former glory and my Reaver can propel himself over half the map in a single pounce.

I hope they add more later, like being able to fly faster as a Sentinel; and maybe we can get back the jump cancel for the Tyrant in the form of a talent.

I know! I used Savage Pounce earlier and it was amazing. It was fun again. It might be hitting too hard right now with the talent, but man flying that fast is exhilarating.

Da_Wolv
18th Sep 2015, 07:59
A 650 health Eldritch Shield is stroooong, lol.


Its not 650. Its 975.
It has been INCREASED BY 200%, not INCREASED TO 200%.
The thing with the talents is, there are still very obvious choices, while 2-3 talents are clearly sub-par or simply not as OP as the other.
I like the very specific talents, like Killing Spree and the Cooldown-Reduction talents for performing certain actions. In comparison, -10% Cooldown seems very boring and generic.

Another thing is that most talents have options build into it, for using multiple abilities on the same slot, like Bloodweaver for Prophet. 2 Talents for Deceiver however only work for one of the two abilities.

At the moment though, it is too soon to tell if any particular talent is too crazy, outside of the buggy way Hell Strike handles now.
And since we wont be able to play properly before they fix Infect, I will reserve criticism until then.

--Ram--
18th Sep 2015, 08:13
The thing with the talents is, there are still very obvious choices, while 2-3 talents are clearly sub-par or simply not as OP as the other.

I like the very specific talents, like Killing Spree and the Cooldown-Reduction talents for performing certain actions. In comparison, -10% Cooldown seems very boring and generic.


Both these points are my current problems with the changes as well.

If there are only 6 choices per class I don't see why it is that hard to get them to a place where they will all be used and there are not 1-3 clear winners while others gather dust

Some perks feel like they make people adapt their playstyle to maximise the benefits, while others are just boring stats that you can basically forget about entirely. I think the boring + damage or health stats should be left for weapons and crafting. The perks should have some flavor and encourage variation in how people play. Some of them certainly achieve this while others are just plain boring.

The new system is a great opportunity to freshen the game up, it has to a degree but it could definitely be better. Good job Psionix but please take some feedback in and iterate to improve the system further.

Swrods
18th Sep 2015, 08:59
Its not 650. Its 975.
It has been INCREASED BY 200%, not INCREASED TO 200%.

I played with Eldritch Guard yesterday. And it is "only" increased to 200% (even if stated different). So it shields 650 hp.

schnoll
18th Sep 2015, 09:13
Yeah theres some class thats obvious what you need to take to succeed. But some others like alch, theres nothing to increase his dps, he already cant get + ammo on weap and now with talents he gets more health or extra ammo. Theres something for the vial but nothing for light bomb / firewall range+dps . Would be awesome to get * bigger fire wall or get the vial buff on the light bomb.

They should have released the new secondaries on the new classes before talents. Now we still stuck on a vanguard with heals and * summoner with shield.

kLauE187
18th Sep 2015, 09:37
ESL will be the biggest trollcup ever.

Da_Wolv
18th Sep 2015, 09:48
ESL will be the biggest trollcup ever.

Shadow already said that if they dont fix that stuff ESL will probably be pushed back this week -.-

senjuj
18th Sep 2015, 09:50
now tyr talents:
1) + 5 % ms and +20 % wall climbing speed (sometimes useful, this ms should affect on charge/jump speed at least)
2) +20 % regen speed and +20 % hp after corpse eating (sometimes useful, should be +20 % regen speed and -20 % time to start regen like old perk, +20 % hp and instant health restore after corpse eating)
3) + 5 % melee damage (useless, should affect on skills too and mb add another 5 %)
4) crowd control (lol)
5) - 10 % cd (good)
6) +15 % hp restore after human det (good).
thats all. :D

Saikocat
18th Sep 2015, 09:55
Hey guys,

I responded in the patch notes thread, but we will be fixing the values on some of the Talents. Bear with us while we get that change ready.

Kabalite
18th Sep 2015, 09:57
Would be nice if i could get a gold refund for all the perks I bought.

HexMee
18th Sep 2015, 10:42
talents are bound to be a mix of broken/useless at first iteration but what really bothers me the most is that it's not in fact a talent [TREE] you get 1 choice between 6 talents, it's actually a talent branch :D
What really needs to be done is: add a bunch more talents, place the talents into "tiers", give us the option to choose 1 out of 3 talents in each tier and poof you got a really fun and rewarding talent tree!

Grisamentum
18th Sep 2015, 12:42
Yeah...I don't get it...it's not a talent tree...it's just perks with different names.......?
Why have you renamed it & claimed it's something new?

Arydious
18th Sep 2015, 13:20
talents are bound to be a mix of broken/useless at first iteration but what really bothers me the most is that it's not in fact a talent [TREE] you get 1 choice between 6 talents, it's actually a talent branch :D
What really needs to be done is: add a bunch more talents, place the talents into "tiers", give us the option to choose 1 out of 3 talents in each tier and poof you got a really fun and rewarding talent tree!

Agreed I read talent tree, before nto just reworked perks. This could just be the first phase though.

Halpachino
18th Sep 2015, 15:05
Tyrants perks are pretty lackluster i think these would be better

1 Longest Stride - Juggernaut + 5% move speed / 20% reduced damage while charging

2 Blood Thirst - Tank + 20% regen speed and delay / can regen while ignore pain is active

3 Brute - Beserker + 5% to enrage buffs

4 Crowd control - Planet Cracker 100% increased aoe damage falloff / increased stun duration/stagger duration on enemies (this gives a big buff to jump and ground slam which are the weakest at the moment )

5 Turels wisdom is fine

6 Victory rush is also pretty good

Razaiim
18th Sep 2015, 17:23
I think i like this first pass at a new perk system. I think if they were to make it more talent like, they could give us the option of choosing which perk to pick.

My biggest thing would be switching more generic talents like bonus attack speed to slightly different effects more relevant to each class, (using the bonus attack speed for vampires example):

Ignore numbers, they're for illustration purposes
Reaver: Consecutive hits increase attack speed by 4%, up to a maximum of 20%
Sentinel: +10% attack speed for 4 seconds after landing.
Tyrant: player may attack to cancel Charge/Marathon. Ending the skill in this manner boosts attack-speed by 15%, decaying by 5% every hit.
Deceiver: +30% attack speed for 2 seconds upon breaking Disguise, or shroud
Summoner: Each instance of damage absorbed by Abyssal barrier boosts attack speed by 3%

TheDreamcrusher
18th Sep 2015, 19:14
I think i like this first pass at a new perk system. I think if they were to make it more talent like, they could give us the option of choosing which perk to pick.

My biggest thing would be switching more generic talents like bonus attack speed to slightly different effects more relevant to each class, (using the bonus attack speed for vampires example):

Ignore numbers, they're for illustration purposes
Reaver: Consecutive hits increase attack speed by 4%, up to a maximum of 20%
Sentinel: +10% attack speed for 4 seconds after landing.
Tyrant: player may attack to cancel Charge/Marathon. Ending the skill in this manner boosts attack-speed by 15%, decaying by 5% every hit.
Deceiver: +30% attack speed for 2 seconds upon breaking Disguise, or shroud
Summoner: Each instance of damage absorbed by Abyssal barrier boosts attack speed by 3%

Well, maybe another way to tackle the 'tree' is to give us multiple slots for talents, sort of like we have for abilities right now. The primary one is the one that changes some functionality of existing abilities. Demolitions and Displacement are good examples. Another two slots could be for generic upgrades, such as reload speed, increased clip, or sprint speed.

To be honest though, I've always disliked rolling for random bonuses on abilities and weapons. It's so expensive to reforge abilities or even have to buy new ones because you got 2 bonuses you won't use. I'd like to be able to use the forge to directly build on the 2 generic perks so I have a strong setup that I know how to use.

GenFeelGood
18th Sep 2015, 19:35
I'd love it if they did a real skill tree, being able to attach multiple talents in the pursuit of a singular build style or a blend of at least two.

Example: Vanguard
The Path of the Shield Bearer
You get talents like the one that enhances your shield strength and the one that knocks a second off your cooldown every time your shield blocks a hit.

The Path of the Axeman
You get talents like the one that gets you extra axes to throw and the one that increase the axes travel speed.

PencileyePirate
18th Sep 2015, 20:19
Today's update nerfs several of the new talents into uselessness, yet the actually overpowered ones are still OP:


Bloodweaver + eldritch still waaaay too strong. IDK whether the tooltip is incorrect and the actual effect is 'only' a 100% increase, but when multiple prophets run this loadout it's just as broken as the cross-map plagues.


Demolitionist and Agility were excessively nerfed and are no longer viable.

Virulent Plague's 30% increased transmission radius is still much too high.

Victory Rush and Lifedrinker stayed the same.

Displacement damage reduction is still 50%!?

/facepalm

Firehex
18th Sep 2015, 20:36
They nerfed agility so much what pounces will become useless again...But they didn't touch prophet EG at all or bleeding effect of sentinel which makes him too OP.
As i said in that (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=170976) topic last patch failed too hard.
P.S. still no gold refunds for perks.A lot of players spend tons of gold for them

PencileyePirate
18th Sep 2015, 20:57
They nerfed agility so much what pounces will become useless again...But they didn't touch prophet EG at all or bleeding effect of sentinel which makes him too OP.

I'm pretty sure they just make changes at random and then wait for people to get angry to determine what needs fixing.

ApollosBow
18th Sep 2015, 21:13
Today's update nerfs several of the new talents into uselessness, yet the actually overpowered ones are still OP:

Demolitionist and Agility were excessively nerfed and are no longer viable.

/facepalm

THIS


They nerfed agility so much what pounces will become useless again...But they didn't touch prophet EG at all or bleeding effect of sentinel which makes him too OP.
As i said in that (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=170976) topic last patch failed too hard.
P.S. still no gold refunds for perks.A lot of players spend tons of gold for them

Ye it pretty annoying how they made Leap attack an actual option over kick for once and now its nerfed to the point where it doesn't make a difference..and leaving the other classes better perks alone is insult to injury...I honestly hate these tiny perk differences...make the perks mean something significant or don't bother with updates like this please, there will always be moaners, I had someone say dominate is bugged but it just got a slight buff (who knows how long that will last ay!), giving me grief throughout the entire game, people will get use to it and adapt, but not if you don't stick with your decisions...or at least give them a chance in hell. I was pretty excited reading these changes and playing the game, but after the rapid nerf it seems like you have taken 2 steps forward and one step back, disappointing.


I'm pretty sure they just make changes at random and then wait for people to get angry to determine what needs fixing.

Im the angry guy, the only thing that needed fixing was the bugged infect and the prophets guard (maybe 100% instead of 200% increase).

Side note
Hundreds of hours worth of gold grinding for it to be pointless is going to anger the player base that has stayed loyal throughout the games development, what exactly is the official response to "So what did I spend all that gold for?".....because right now staying silent might as well be #dealwithit response.

Firehex
18th Sep 2015, 22:12
Hundreds of hours worth of gold grinding for it to be pointless is going to anger the player base that has stayed loyal throughout the games development, what exactly is the official response to "So what did I spend all that gold for?".....because right now staying silent might as well be #dealwithit response.

I'm still waiting from community manager some responce about that. I want my 4-5k gold back( don't remember how many perks i bought)

kLauE187
18th Sep 2015, 23:54
Alchemist:
Quick Hands: Fine
Fortitude: Fine
Expanded Clip: Increase clipsize by +1 and ammo-size by 10% for all cannons (not sure if just stated wrong)
Disorieting Flash: Changed to "If you flash a vampire, his movement-speed is decreased by 40%, dodge-cooldown and distance nerfed by 25% and blind uptime raised by 2s"
Anarcrothe's Flame: Fine
Restoring Flames: Poison cloud also gives +5% hp for each enemy

Deceiver:
Thrill of the Chase: Useless
Zephon's Ruse: Fine
Madness: Fine
Displacement: Still too strong, could need a nerf to like 35-40% reduced damage
Split Personalities: Not flexible enough, should give a damage-reduction to shroud, or put this into Displacement instead. Little bit too strong for illusions if you take into account that explosives only get a buff by 10% with "Demolisionist" while illusions get 30%. (easy way to compare the true value of both stats since they are direct counters to each-other)
Virulent Strain: Hard to say, i guess it's fine when not global anymore Kappa

Hunter:
Steady Aim: I guess it's strong if you're good with tracking
Iron Will: Good option as well if you like survivability
Fully Loaded: Unnecessary because Bolt-Thrower is just too weak in the current state
Tactician: Could be too strong in competitive
Rapid Reload: Doesn't change much in my opinion since you can always choose when you reload or not
Demolisionist: Overnerfed and no option at all, because it doesn't help with the horrible long grenade animation which is the real problem

Reaver:
Dumah's Cunning: Fine, but Reaver cooldowns are not the best options for him anyway except Sweeping Kick
Nightstalker: Useless
Frenzy: Not a fan of this, because not enough tankiness to make it viable
Adrenaline: Reaver isn't a class you go for normal melee-attacks since he gets forced to shadow-step out if focused and he deals not enough damage or has enough tankiness to back it up. Instead give him "A fully charged melee gives your next special-attack a damage-buff by 25% and lowers the cooldown for the next by 50%. Also your leap-attack won't get you out of melee-range anymore."
Berserker: Seems fine, but should also give a bubble against like 1 CC to make haste viable
Agility: Useless after the nerf, removed the whole point of using pounce. Speed should have stayed the same, but the impact-damage should have stayed normal. (Think of Reaver as a Guerilla-class who can deal a lot of damage in a short time-period but is vulnerable if focused)

Prophet:
Seer's Wisdom: Fine
Thick Blood: Fine
Fully Loaded: Maybe viable if you get +2 per pistol or something like 50% damage increase for the first bullet in your clip
Bloodweaver: Life Leech or Sacrifice seems fine, but Eldrich Guard is way too strong. Counters every vampire-class ezpz
Gunslinger: Fine
Lifedrinker: Fine

Scout:
Stocked Quiver: Same as for prophet, could be viable if you add +2 for every bow
Watcher's Vigil: Fine
Pursuit: Way too strong if you take into account that Scout benefits massively from both stats (running/peeking). You can't catch up on this as vampire
Nimble Fingers: Way too strong for a class who has the highest damage potential in the game with Alch/Tyrant/Sent!?
Deadeye: Fine
Barbed Tools: Haven't tested, because Pursuit/Nimble are way too overpowered. Volley strong with or without bleed because it forces vampires to disengage or loose the fight, means it counters a lot of comps/setups

Sentinel:
Undying: Fine
Rapid Fury: Fine
Aerodynamics: Fine, maybe give 1 bubble against warbow as direct counter?
Barbed Talons: Haven't tested but sounds strong since Sentinel hits quite hard anyway
Raziels Guidance: Cooldown-reduction on Sentinel is always good
Killing Spree: Kind of a cheese, sounds strong but isn't imo

Summoner:
Dark Pact: Fine, but kinda useless since Summoner has enough in her kit to deal with survivability. Could be good if pets benefit from this too (higher value)
Predation: Useless
Melchiah's Agony: Cooldown-reduction on Summoner is always good
Abyssal Frenzy: I think the better option here is to revert the radius fall-off damage like it was before when Summoner got released which means it hits harder but lower the travel-speed and make Hellstrike instant again. Means more skill is required to predict enemy movement which also means more counter-play to it if you stay aware of the sound-cue or visual. Raising/lowering the speed makes the ability either op or useless because it basically means you just melee-roll out of it or you can't react in time
Ethereal Speed: + Attack-speed on your pets and it would be fine (higher value)
Soul Harvest: I guess it doesn't change much since the cooldown is quite high anyway

Tyrant:
Long Stride: Useless (Movement-speed as vampire is useless, except you run something like haste but still what is 5% from something which doesn't change much because it has almost like no value anyway?)
Bloodthirst: Snowbally
Brute: Seems like way more balanced than the op berserker/hp-build before
Crowd Control: Pretty much only benefits charge
Turel's Wisdom: Fine
Victory Rush: Situational

Vanguard:
Thoughness: Fine
Tidal Blessing: Fine
Additional Arms: Didn't notice a difference or is it just +1 clipsize?
Stout Shield: Fine
Strongarm: Fine
Indomitable: Pretty good if you run Shield Bash, but doesn't change the fact that Vanguard is useless or i haven't seen one who mastered him yet

Blackdeathteal
19th Sep 2015, 00:27
The nurf on Agilty was too extreme maybe id suggest somewhat scale the damage back and readd more flight but it went to oblivion . It looks like the other talents were not even close to as nurfed as this one hellstrike still throws like a bat from hell, and the humans are basically untouched. Really is a little depressing Id like to see Agilty looked at again and regain more than the current pos now.

TheDreamcrusher
19th Sep 2015, 02:55
Oh wow. Yes, the Agility and Demolitions decreases were too much. I'd like to see Agility do at least +25% or 30% velocity. The thing that made Demolitions great was the radius increase, because you were much more likely do high damage with Grenade. So, I'd want the radius increase back up to 25% or make it so Demolitions decreases the damage falloff rate, or in other words higher damage is done towards the edges of the radius.

So, further suggestions:

Reaver
Nightstalker - Move and climb speed bonus, Evasion negates damage from all attacks, Shadow Step can be used twice if activated within 2 seconds after exiting the first Shadow Step

Tyrant
Turel's Wisdom - Cool down reduction bonus, Ignore Pain and Enrage have durations extended to 8 seconds
Blood Thirst - Execute and regen speed bonus, +30% move speed after execution for 7 seconds (affects Charge/Marathon/Jump Attack)
Brute - Melee damage bonus, can attack while Ignore Pain is active and attacks do no damage but stagger the target

Blackdeathteal
19th Sep 2015, 03:01
Oh wow. Yes, the Agility and Demolitions decreases were too much. I'd like to see Agility do at least +25% or 30% velocity. The thing that made Demolitions great was the radius increase, because you were much more likely do high damage with Grenade. So, I'd want the radius increase back up to 25% or make it so Demolitions decreases the damage falloff rate, or in other words higher damage is done towards the edges of the radius.

Yes the launch speed nurf was mainly annoyed me I would like to see it restored it wasnt so much the damage or even to the extreme to add a solo stat launch speed Talent with the 30 percent .

Da_Wolv
19th Sep 2015, 07:32
So. Now that I played a bit more I feel confident to at least talk about what I have played or encountered.
'ahem

Sentinel:
I love Killing Spree. It is the exact thing that I hoped the talents would be. No real stat changes, but actual playstyle changes. It is so satisfying to get a Triple Kill Streak, yet very hard to pull off. Risk - Reward. As it should be.

Barbed Talons however is a bit too much. Giving one of the main DPS classes even more DPS is a bit overkill.
I would either change it so the bleeding only occurs on Puncture hits, or give this Talent to the Reaver!

The other Sentinel talents all pale in comparison, so no reason to talk about them.
Except for Aerodynamics:
Why does the protection effect not work while in Kidnap/Abduct Mode? This would be the only reason this talent could be viable, yet it doesn't work. I have a feeling this might be a bug. So consider it reported.

Summoner:
After all the complaining how Hell Strike was OP after release, you nerfed its cast time. Now its better than the initial talent release (that is to say, now its NOT broken as all hell) but it still defeats the point of nerfing it in the first place.
I would have liked to see the Talent that says: 25% Cast speed red. for Abyssal Bolt, While casting Hell Strike you can move.
That would have been an OK change for me. The speed increase makes this ability the obvious choice again.

Prophet:
Dat Shield. While I love it, I can see how it is maybe a bit too strong. Maybe raise it to 550 only. That sounds like a good number. Enough to tank a Puncture and a melee hit.

Scout:
Speed. So much speed. If this perk where universal it would be incredibly OP, but just for Scout, I am not sure yet. Its definately strong.
The Nimble Fingers are great for Warbows, the other bows dont benefit much. But it is a viable choice.
Barbed Tools might become the new meta. At the very least it is my obvious choice when playing very stationary.
All in all, these talents sound fun and creative.

Reaver:
He needs more specific talents. Except for Agility and Adrenaline, all talents are stat based, which I would like to see improved on for all classes. I might brainstorm some ideas over the week and get back to you.
I think there is lots of potential for cool Talents, which augment your playstyle, instead of just giving you bigger numbers on everything.

--Ram--
19th Sep 2015, 10:29
On the same page as Da_Wolv here. It feels like a wasted opportunity to add this system yet retain so many boring + stat buffs that we already had. I'd much prefer to see the perks become interesting playstyle changing upgrades, not just a plus stat choice that will not change the way you play at all. I'll throw a few suggestion in when I get a chance as well.

Ysanoire
19th Sep 2015, 10:46
I don't have a very specific feedback on each separate perk value, but some general thoughts from me:

I like the direction the changes went. Mostly the fact that the perks are a bit more meaningful and more specific.

Some perks were merged together to make them more useful (like health + stun resist), that's good. Sprint speed is now a significant bonus BUT only one class has it, I think that was a good decision as well. Overall perks seem to be a lot less meh than they used to be, now you really feel torn on which to choose cause a bunch of them are good.

I hope there's still some room for adding more class-specific talents, I'd love to see more.

Regarding the feedback that it's not really a tree and it should be more tree-like - I disagree. If I were starting right now I would prefer to have a choice of what I unlock and not have to grind through tiers. Yes, newbies already need to spend some time to earn the gold/xp to unlock stuff, but the abilities and perks that they do unlock are not inferior to those the other players have and I think it should stay that way.

TheDreamcrusher
19th Sep 2015, 23:12
Da_Wolve has very good points.

Killing Spree has set a very high bar for all the other talents to aspire to and I think other talents should do the same in the way that they change how you play a class. Those are real options.

With Barbed Talons, I wish it could be tied to Takeoff somehow, because as noted, Barbed Talons with Puncture is too much damage. Barbed Talons made me want to use Wing Flap and Takeoff to maximize melee damage in a paced sort of way with a lot of charged melee attacks. Barbed Talons is great for hit and run in group combat and Takeoff allows the best escape option.

Abyssal Fury should have another function for Hellstrike than just to simply make the skill usable. I've been harping on Hellstrike ever since the delivery speed was nerfed.

For the prophet, I'd love to see something that gave some flavor to the Curse abilities.
Lifedrinker - 20% of max health restored on kill, Disabling Curse inflicts no damage but purges beneficial effects, Draining Curse decreases attack and movement speed by 5% for each tick of damage

For alchemist:
Volatile Munitions - Cannon projectiles explode after traveling 1000 units and have a larger burst. Creates a short range, flak type of effect so sentinels are easier to target and projectiles cannot bounce. Using Shockwave as a distance reference.

Anarcrothe's Flame - Ability cool downs reduced by 10%, each enemy affected by Sunlight Vial, Light Bomb, and Immolation empowers Firewall, Flamethrower, Poison Cloud, or Healing Mist by 20% and 0.5 seconds up to 5 times. This stack is reset if you die.

Disorienting Flash - When you blind a vampire, their melee damage is reduced by 50%. Immolation blinds nearby vampires momentarily when the potion is consumed.

For scout:
Stocked Quiver - Increased clip size and maximum ammo, Throw Knives tosses 5 blades in a wider fan, and Marked Target has a cooldown of 8 seconds

For the reaver, something that would promote risk vs reward for pounces is to let Agility inflict more damage for the DoT portion.

Firehex
20th Sep 2015, 17:04
Buff reaver agility back, remove bleeding effect from sentinel ( it is most popular vampire class already, stop it...), nerf shield of prophet( that is just too much) and give some usefull talent from tyrant.

Da_Wolv
21st Sep 2015, 09:33
So I have been brainstorming a little and I came up with these:
(Numbers are ofc very much debateable)

Reaver
Unpredictable Predator - You can manually cancel your secondary ability, retaining some of its cooldown for later use.
(This will make Evasion more of a viable choice, enabling Reavers to use it like Summoners would use thier shield, but can also be beneficial for Shadow Step, to throw off Scouts who aim for the end or your Shadow Step to get you once you pop out. It will also make distance and velocity more controlable)

Strategist - Your Smoke Bomb and Haze Bomb have 20% increased throwing distance and last 3 seconds longer. For each enemy that dies shortly after being hit by its effects, gain 1 second on your cooldown.
(Pretty straight forward. Smoke has been underused lately and only one smoke is very easy to see through. Maybe making the smoke effect actually fill the entire circle as indicated on the floor would be good in general.)

Deciever
Escape Artist - Your clones gain 5% increased move and 20% increased climb speed. Aiming at a clone and activating the ability again switches your position with your clone (single use). When in shroud, gain 15% increased movement speed and 25% increased climb speed but do -60% damage.
(Great for escaping close encounters, while not making the abilities incredibly OP. Switching the position is a bit random but could be used offensively, maybe having the AI behave differently - spreading out more - could make this even better.)

Alchemist
Menace - Your Pellets do +15% Damage on point blank, but loose blast radius over time.
(Point Blank nightmare, increasingly useless when trying to hit far away targets or blanket roof tops)

Carpet Bomber - ^Polar Opposite. More radius for each pellet. Direct hits do almost no splash damage.
(Good to blanket large areas or hit targets on roofs and around corners. Loses effectiveness in close combat when multiple targets are present.)

Prophet
Eldritch Defender - Your Eldritch Guard protects for an additional 50%, explodes for 200 radial damage when it breaks.
Replaces Blood Weaver effect!
(Instead of making targets unkillable, it will make the Vampires stay away from fear of blowing up in their face, enabling Vampires to deal with this creatively by breaking the shield through Kidnaps/Abducts, Throw and ranged abilities.)

Screwby-Dew
21st Sep 2015, 10:14
Alchemist
Menace - Your Pellets do +15% Damage on point blank, but loose blast radius over time.
(Point Blank nightmare, increasingly useless when trying to hit far away targets or blanket roof tops)

If you want to do more dmg on point blank then you should play with the Fullbore Canon.



Carpet Bomber - ^Polar Opposite. More radius for each pellet. Direct hits do almost no splash damage.
(Good to blanket large areas or hit targets on roofs and around corners. Loses effectiveness in close combat when multiple targets are present.)

I wouldn't put this as a perk, I would rather prefer a change to the Viscous Canon's Radius/Splash, instead of a 250 radius (like every Alchemist's canons) it should be increase to something like 325-350 with probably a slight damage reduction from 210 to 200.



Prophet
Eldritch Defender - Your Eldritch Guard protects for an additional 50%, explodes for 200 radial damage when it breaks.
Replaces Blood Weaver effect!
(Instead of making targets unkillable, it will make the Vampires stay away from fear of blowing up in their face, enabling Vampires to deal with this creatively by breaking the shield through Kidnaps/Abducts, Throw and ranged abilities.)

Additional damage on a support ability doesn't seem to be a good idea in my opinion, though I do agree that Eldritch Guard needs a tweak, 200% shield is way to strong.

Da_Wolv
21st Sep 2015, 10:23
I wouldn't put this as a perk, I would rather prefer a change to the Viscous Canon's Radius/Splash, instead of a 250 radius (like every Alchemist's canons) it should be increase to something like 325-350 with probably a slight damage reduction from 210 to 200.

Fair point.

While we are on Alchemist:
The Blinding perk is currently useless. Blinding Vampires is too random to make this perk worth taking. Sometimes blinding completely misses, eventhough you hit Vampires right in the face. The way blinding works needs to be looked at to make this effective. Also, instead of damage reduction, why not make movement, climb and attack speed slower during blinds, which would simulate the actual effect of being blinded, since people dont run at full speed into walls when they cant see.

Dron1508
21st Sep 2015, 10:50
We're definitely need some more Tyrant talents too.

Tyrant

Fallen Skies - Hitting ground by Jump Attack causes Knockdown effect (like Earthquake) instead of Stun.
Unstoppable - All human disabling abilities (Bola, hex etc.) has only 50% duration (either time or damage).
Telekinetic - Charge and Marathon abilities impact square increased by 25%

riccetto80
21st Sep 2015, 13:00
Sentinel:
I love Killing Spree. It is the exact thing that I hoped the talents would be. No real stat changes, but actual playstyle changes. It is so satisfying to get a Triple Kill Streak, yet very hard to pull off. Risk - Reward. As it should be.


NO NO NO!!!

Now a single sentinel can kidnap 2 or 3 times, continuously?

this is insane in a bad way.

and no, is not high risk, if you able to kill a human mean was already damaged, this means the vampire already attacked the human group and himans use most part of ammo and abilities.

so very little risk, but terrible huge revard being able to do 2/3 kidnap one after another.

and terrible frustration for human who receive this.

reaver need some buff, sentinel need nerf, is too easy for some player exploit the way sentinel fly and fly like a missile in any situation and bounce inside the building, in and out.

Anyway NO PERK must reset instant an ability, all the system of abilities is based on cooldown, if you instantly reset a cooldown you destroy the balance.

PencileyePirate
21st Sep 2015, 17:32
NO NO NO!!!

Now a single sentinel can kidnap 2 or 3 times, continuously?

this is insane in a bad way.


Have you actually tried the talent? Da_Wolv hits the nail right on the head.


sentinel need nerf, is too easy for some player exploit the way sentinel fly and fly like a missile in any situation and bounce inside the building, in and out.

It sounds to me like you need to practice aiming at Sentinels.

GenFeelGood
21st Sep 2015, 17:34
For Sentinel Aerodynamics, I'd rather just be able to fly 20% faster.

Firehex
21st Sep 2015, 19:05
Have you actually tried the talent? Da_Wolv hits the nail right on the head.

It sounds to me like you need to practice aiming at Sentinels.

It sounds to me your main vamp is sentinel. I am really tired to see 2 sentinels EVERY damn game. Some so good what can catch me, even if i roll in any direction. Instead of nerfing them, devs gave them extra bleeding damage and ability to instantly reset cd...*facepalm*

Da_Wolv
21st Sep 2015, 21:06
It sounds to me your main vamp is sentinel. I am really tired to see 2 sentinels EVERY damn game. Some so good what can catch me, even if i roll in any direction. Instead of nerfing them, devs gave them extra bleeding damage and ability to instantly reset cd...*facepalm*

The killing spree is very situational though. Not only do you need to kill someone with the first abduct, but also not mess up the next one. I find that against good opponents I much rather have Aerodynamics, since most players know how to use the map to avoid graps or simply bola your face.
In that sense, I do not think it is OP - it is powerful, but situational enough and skill based enough to be a nice choice.

Barbed Talons is straight up too much, no question.

Blackdeathteal
22nd Sep 2015, 00:03
Puncture has been over abused for a long time even with the same ping its impossible to cc out of banish / bollas / shield bash and mostly dodge is impossible to move out of . Thats the main reason I was annoyed to see agilty renurfed to the floor having alternatives to cookie cutter builds is a good thing same could be said about the grenadier talent ( to a extent ) mainly seeing auto spam Scouts gets old

Fist_Of_Theos
22nd Sep 2015, 22:01
I love that Hell Strike is usable now, but still bugs out tho. Like I tried using it under the bridge, showed the circle on the other side, and It blew up in my face..

Prophet's shield is pretty OP, If kept that op, I'd say do a double edged sword; make the shielded target lose 10% movement speed. Or just drop it down to 500.

Alchemist, i was really hoping for something to help with healing (like instantly heals 150 on impact). as well as something for poison like increase the water effect on their screen by 30% (basically slight blind while they are in the radius) or increases the radius by 25% (so instead of 400 it'd be 500).

And Sentinel's I still think it is a lil bs when one sent picks you up, drops you, and another comes out of no where, picks you up and kills you. - Give a 5 sec rule to abduct/kidnap or something, so 7 of my 8 deaths aren't me just being anally raped from the air; considering the teams i get usually doesn't shield me or shoot down/bola the sentinels.

Da_Wolv
23rd Sep 2015, 07:36
Reaver
Unpredictable Predator - You can manually cancel your secondary ability, retaining some of its cooldown for later use.
(This will make Evasion more of a viable choice, enabling Reavers to use it like Summoners would use thier shield, but can also be beneficial for Shadow Step, to throw off Scouts who aim for the end or your Shadow Step to get you once you pop out. It will also make distance and velocity more controlable)

Strategist - Your Smoke Bomb and Haze Bomb have 20% increased throwing distance and last 3 seconds longer. For each enemy that dies shortly after being hit by its effects, gain 1 second on your cooldown.
(Pretty straight forward. Smoke has been underused lately and only one smoke is very easy to see through. Maybe making the smoke effect actually fill the entire circle as indicated on the floor would be good in general.)

Deciever
Escape Artist - Your clones gain 5% increased move and 20% increased climb speed. Aiming at a clone and activating the ability again switches your position with your clone (single use). When in shroud, gain 15% increased movement speed and 25% increased climb speed but do -60% damage.
(Great for escaping close encounters, while not making the abilities incredibly OP. Switching the position is a bit random but could be used offensively, maybe having the AI behave differently - spreading out more - could make this even better.)

Alchemist
Menace - Your Pellets do +15% Damage on point blank, but loose blast radius over time.
(Point Blank nightmare, increasingly useless when trying to hit far away targets or blanket roof tops)

Carpet Bomber - ^Polar Opposite. More radius for each pellet. Direct hits do almost no splash damage.
(Good to blanket large areas or hit targets on roofs and around corners. Loses effectiveness in close combat when multiple targets are present.)

Prophet
Eldritch Defender - Your Eldritch Guard protects for an additional 50%, explodes for 200 radial damage when it breaks.
Replaces Blood Weaver effect!
(Instead of making targets unkillable, it will make the Vampires stay away from fear of blowing up in their face, enabling Vampires to deal with this creatively by breaking the shield through Kidnaps/Abducts, Throw and ranged abilities.)

Alchemist
Implosive - Your Light Bomb and Immolation do 35% less damage, but pull targets within range, knocking them down.
Replaces Blinding Perk effect!
(Turning Damage abilities into support abilties to help out teammates that are under assault. Arguably, the Damage could be decreased even more to not make the effect too OP)

PencileyePirate
23rd Sep 2015, 18:56
It sounds to me your main vamp is sentinel. I am really tired to see 2 sentinels EVERY damn game. Some so good what can catch me, even if i roll in any direction. Instead of nerfing them, devs gave them extra bleeding damage and ability to instantly reset cd...*facepalm*

Nope, usually I play reaver. I'm sorry you're bad at avoiding sentinel grabs, but it's not as hard as you make it out to be.

I do agree barbed talons is too strong and think the bleed should be cut in half.

TheDreamcrusher
24th Sep 2015, 06:04
Nope, usually I play reaver. I'm sorry you're bad at avoiding sentinel grabs, but it's not as hard as you make it out to be.

I do agree barbed talons is too strong and think the bleed should be cut in half.

I wish I could imagine a way that Barbed Talons could be promoted to be used with Wing Flap and Takeoff, but I'm at a loss. I feel like they complement each other in a defensive, hit and run sort of play style you would see with the reaver. Lunge in for a single, max charge melee strike, Wing Flap to let the bleed finish completely, do another melee hit, and use Takeoff then.