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Saikocat
16th Sep 2014, 19:04
Alternate Executions

- Vampires now have alternate executions available for purchase from the Store
- Default execution items have been granted to all players for the classes that they own.
-Each class now has a "default" Execution item.  Reaver and Tyrant executions are part of default inventory now, and Sentinel and Deceiver are granted with the class unlock.
For more info, check out our blog here: http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/executions-come-to-nosgoth



Hunter

Whip
- Damage reduced to 200, was 250



Tyrant
- New VFX for Ignore Pain and Enrage

Jump Attack
- You can`t cancel your Jump Attack Cooldown via jumping to a spot that is at the apex vertical limit of your jump




UI and Store

Party
- Added an “Invite to Party” widget on the bottom bar that makes it easier to send invites to friends playing Nosgoth



Inventory
- Items can now be filtered by these types: Boosters, Perks, Armor, and Executions.



Purchase Options
- Equipment is now available in “7 Day” and “Permanent” options
- Perks are now available in “7 Day” and “Permanent” options
- Boosters are now available in “7 Day” and “30 Day” options



Bugs and Performance

- More optimization work on The Fane and Sommerdamm maps
- Fixed some collision issues in The Fane and Sommerdamm maps
- Fixed more issues with the chat box not closing when hitting the Escape key
- Fixed an issue with Sticky Grenade not always sticking when it should

MasterZtark
16th Sep 2014, 19:06
Thanks Cat!

Garfild_ru
16th Sep 2014, 19:09
Russian translation here http://nosgoth.ru/783-update-16-september-2014/.
Full translation will be available in a few minutes.

SiD_Green
16th Sep 2014, 19:12
Jump Attack
- You can`t cancel your Jump Attack Cooldown via jumping to a spot that is at the apex vertical limit of your jump


Boo. Terrible change.

Vampmaster
16th Sep 2014, 19:19
Will there be executions for humans at some point? So when you finish off a vampire, they expode or implode or disintegrate or melt etc? Also, since it seems they need runestones I thought I should ask again about bulk discounts when items are bought as a bundle. Like if you put different selections of existing purcasables on the bundles page where the founders packs are.

TheDreamcrusher
16th Sep 2014, 19:24
Will there be executions for humans at some point? So when you finish off a vampire, they expode or implode or disintegrate or melt etc? Also, since it seems they need runestones I thought I should ask again about bulk discounts when items are bought as a bundle. Like if you put different selections of existing purcasables on the bundles page where the founders packs are.

That already happens. Alchemist and hunters can disintegrate vampires, as well as their heads popping with certain attacks.

TheDreamcrusher
16th Sep 2014, 19:26
Question: I could have sworn Warbow used to have a draw damage of 475. Was it dropped this patch?

Sanguise23
16th Sep 2014, 19:27
Boo. Terrible change.

agree, plus wy no 30 day perks, fine for me but crappy for newbs, also no 3 day boosters?

Redthrist
16th Sep 2014, 19:27
No new party system? I guess it's not ready, then.

SiD_Green
16th Sep 2014, 19:42
Question: I could have sworn Warbow used to have a draw damage of 475. Was it dropped this patch?

it was always 400

Psyonix_Corey
16th Sep 2014, 19:48
No new party system? I guess it's not ready, then.

Really hoping to have a test environment up with it soon so you guys can break it before it actually goes live, this time.

Khalith
16th Sep 2014, 19:52
- Vampires now have alternate executions available for purchase from the Store
- Default execution items have been granted to all players for the classes that they own.
-Each class now has a "default" Execution item.  Reaver and Tyrant executions are part of default inventory now, and Sentinel and Deceiver are granted with the class unlock.

They look awesome! Really like them.



Whip
- Damage reduced to 200, was 250

Good change, might need to add a slightly longer cd also.


Tyrant
- New VFX for Ignore Pain and Enrage

Love them, they look great.


Jump Attack
- You can`t cancel your Jump Attack Cooldown via jumping to a spot that is at the apex vertical limit of your jump


Boo! But I understand why. Does this mean that the attack will always go off even inside buildings now?


- Equipment is now available in “7 Day” and “Permanent” options
- Perks are now available in “7 Day” and “Permanent” options
- Boosters are now available in “7 Day” and “30 Day” options

Fair enough. I assume any extra 3 day boosters people might have won't be changed though.

Vampmaster
16th Sep 2014, 19:55
That already happens. Alchemist and hunters can disintegrate vampires, as well as their heads popping with certain attacks.

Basic limb popping then? Lame.

Fatereaver
16th Sep 2014, 19:55
Really against the jump nerf, tyrants feel even weaker and more clumsy now than before... On another note anyone experiencing the game speeding up and everything looking really zoomed out? Before I saw the patch notes I assumed the tyrant had been buffed with speed upgrades due to this. :S

Vampmaster
16th Sep 2014, 20:11
I've noticed humans return to a standing pose when being fed on in this patch.

5amael_
16th Sep 2014, 20:15
This seems extremely anti-climactic. Nearly a month without a patch and we get 3 executions and random crashes.

Redthrist
16th Sep 2014, 20:16
Really hoping to have a test environment up with it soon so you guys can break it before it actually goes live, this time.

Hope it will work this time. Really want to play more of it, but thinking about re-creating party 5+ times before you get into the game makes me rethink this decision.

Illusa
16th Sep 2014, 20:17
I've noticed humans return to a standing pose when being fed on in this patch.

I too have seen this.

Also was there no increase in animation time for whip? As for some reason, I am seeing a lot of people miss now. That or maybe a change in the cone of damage? At any rate, feels a lot better to go against and use.

New executions are nice as well. And optimizations are ALWAYS welcome =)

PencileyePirate
16th Sep 2014, 20:31
Absolutely nothing done to faction balance, MM, or team balancing? Talk about a disappointing patch ... and to think we've been waiting all this time for extra animations. Seeing whip lose damage instead of a reduced stun is also pretty annoying.

Also, wtf @ Tyrant jump change.

Blazzphemy
16th Sep 2014, 21:23
Utterly disappointed with a 500+ Mb patch and NOTHING good was added. Executions that can only be bought with cash... Sq Enix is really looking more and more like they are just trying to leech money with the least amount of effort. Where are these two new classes... where are new maps... where are more diverse skills... punishment for leavers... crafting...so much they can/need to fix before trying to scrounge for more cash from the early access buy ins and now the addition to more Cash Only items... :mad:

No reason to nerf Tyrant leap.

Still no change to that trash Stormbow. Seriously make it explode ONLY on full draw. If the storm can shoot a bomb on every shot why can't the war bow stagger with every shot? -.- Poor designs.

Losing faith in this game, close to uninstalling again.
Why are devs not making themselves more visibly active and why can't we get much more of explanations to the changes?

Talespin
16th Sep 2014, 21:58
Jump Attack
- You can`t cancel your Jump Attack Cooldown via jumping to a spot that is at the apex vertical limit of your jump

ಠ_ಠ

You changed this, which just slightly helped Tyrant's movement around the map and provided some unique character mastery to the game, instead of something like the broken and unreliable melee hitboxes?

SiD_Green
16th Sep 2014, 22:10
Jump attack was already risky to use. Good humans rarely stand close together, they can hide inside fairly effectively on all maps, and most significantly, you are fully susceptible to all CC, not to mention damage. It had the advantage of improved map traversal for the slowest class, and you removed this for no clear reason. Please revert this change.

Fatereaver
16th Sep 2014, 23:32
I agree completely with SiD_Green, this makes no sense at all. The Tyrant moves the slowest, attacks the slowest, and climbs the slowest. He is a big target that has problems hiding and because of his large size he gets easily hung up on things in the environment.
I have lost track of the number of times I have died being chased by hunters because I could not move through a doorframe because my shoulder got stuck on it, or find things the tyrant can't vault over that other vampires easily can.
Enrage does not rip a bola like ignore pain does and is therefore considered inferiour by many high level tyrant players because you can't use it for escapes. Ignore pain can get bugged several times a match and only play the animation, but gives you no texture effect or damage reduction, boy is that fun when it happens... Jump can be stopped by a simple bola for some reason and all high level hunters know this. Charge and marathon is easy to dodge and makes you a pretty obvious target due to the sound effects and visuals and since you do not recieve any damage reduction you can wave goodbye to a high percentage of your health when you finaly manage to limp away.

Most high level players I have met including myself think of tyrants as nothing more than a free kill. They are easy to dance around in melee due to their awkward melee animation 1v1 and most teams focus fire the tyrant first.
The best tyrant players could manage to get some use out of him with jump and jump boosting, but now you have removed that from the equation... A buff was needed, not a nerf :( And certainly not visual effects... Pretty as they though are... :/

riccetto80
16th Sep 2014, 23:40
No new matchmaking system?

No fix for 3vs4?

No fix for bugged lobby?

No fix for being unable to start a match and stuck in beginner zone?

Open beta in winter? winter of 2015?

Vampmaster
16th Sep 2014, 23:43
Regarding the Ignore Pain bug, I think something similar happened with hex shot when playing today. I heard the sound effect and couldn't use abilities or move quickly, but there was no visual effect to show that it had happened.

Fatereaver
17th Sep 2014, 00:26
Regarding the Ignore Pain bug, I think something similar happened with hex shot when playing today. I heard the sound effect and couldn't use abilities or move quickly, but there was no visual effect to show that it had happened.

Yeah, what happened to you happened to my girlfriend to when she was playing as reaver and got shot with it. All the effects of hex shot, but no visual indication.

Though that ignore pain bug I keep experiencing is almost guaranteed lethal to the tyrant. Your arms fly up in the air playing the animation, but you get no damage reduction and your skin texture is unchanged.

TendrilSavant
17th Sep 2014, 01:15
Tyrant Jump cancel was a bug guys. It was never intended to work that way, but (in my opinion) was left in while higher priority bugs were worked on. It wasn't broken or OP in TDM; but if mastered, the cancel was really good in Siege.

As for Jump being shut down so easily, why not allow Jump to always cause landing damage/stagger even if a CC is used on them? There's 3 classes that shut down Jump with default abilities. I mean, why should 3 little knives, a little chain or a curse nullify the inertia of a +500lbs falling object?

Khalith
17th Sep 2014, 01:32
Tyrant Jump cancel was a bug guys. It was never intended to work that way, but (in my opinion) was left in while higher priority bugs were worked on. It wasn't broken or OP in TDM; but if mastered, the cancel was really good in Siege.

This. I only want the jump to work in buildings if they are going to do this though.


As for Jump being shut down so easily, why not allow Jump to always cause landing damage/stagger even if a CC is used on them? There's 3 classes that shut down Jump with default abilities. I mean, why should 3 little knives, a little chain or a curse nullify the inertia of a +500lbs falling object?

I still think Jump needs CC immunity tbh.

PencileyePirate
17th Sep 2014, 02:00
Tyrant Jump cancel was a bug guys. It was never intended to work that way, but (in my opinion) was left in while higher priority bugs were worked on. It wasn't broken or OP in TDM; but if mastered, the cancel was really good in Siege.

Even so, it was an interesting mechanic and probably should have stayed.


As for Jump being shut down so easily, why not allow Jump to always cause landing damage/stagger even if a CC is used on them? There's 3 classes that shut down Jump with default abilities. I mean, why should 3 little knives, a little chain or a curse nullify the inertia of a +500lbs falling object?

I'd rather see Jump get immunity to being dropped by warbow.

Sorrowgate
17th Sep 2014, 02:08
This. I only want the jump to work in buildings if they are going to do this though.



I still think Jump needs CC immunity tbh.

I wouldn't mind if Jump was resistant to some ccs. I picture the War Bow having enough force to cancel a jump (just because it looks like it hits like a truck, you seen the way vampires fall over and do backflips?), bola would tie up the Tyrant but the slam would still apply, Knives wouldn't work and Hex Shot would cancel the damage for some reason (just feels right because magic is involved :P).

I feel like the jump cancel should be a feature. It added skill to Tyrants and wasn't gamebreaking. Got nothing against Jump working in buildings if they don't bring the cancel back.

While on Tyrant special skills, I feel like Charge needs to reduce damage taken. How often does a Tyrant get to charge without getting shot to hell? 30% reduced damage while charging wouldn't hurt. You still take enough damage to be worthwhile to shoot the charging Tyrant but you don't walk off limping with ignore pain up.

TendrilSavant
17th Sep 2014, 02:50
I still think Jump needs CC immunity tbh.
I'm not sure about this. I feel it would make Jump a better choice over Charge if it also had immunity.


Even so, it was an interesting mechanic and probably should have stayed.
I personally didn't like it because it gave an unfair advantage to players who knew about it (however small the advantage was); it's the same with melee+dodge cancel.

I think a good compromise is to allow Jump to go into a climb like Pounces can, it could give a bit more versatility that way.

On another note, what if Charge created a small stagger AoE when you hit a wall? Hitting a wall straight on already leaves you a bit more vulnerable than stopping mid run; maybe if it staggered enemies hugging the wall it wouldn't be so easily punishable when you miss. It wouldn't affect every encounter but it could be a subtle effect.

Khalith
17th Sep 2014, 02:59
I'm not sure about this. I feel it would make Jump a better choice over Charge if it also had immunity.

Depends on where the humans are camping, you still won't be able to jump if the humans are in certain camps on the maps, it becomes a trade off at that point in my opinion. Against really good scouts, hunters, and prophets I feel as though jump is a liability because of the ability to cancel it. At that point I have to use Charge/Marathon and hope it hits since it's not that hard to dodge.

BR0sephStalin
17th Sep 2014, 04:19
Incredibility disappointing patch after a month of nothing. This patch added absolutely nothing to correct the current problems plaguing the game. Hoping the next one is better.

KingCramer
17th Sep 2014, 05:28
No new matchmaking system?

No fix for 3vs4?

No fix for bugged lobby?

No fix for being unable to start a match and stuck in beginner zone?

Open beta in winter? winter of 2015?

This.

While i do appreciate new content, bug fixes and all, but damn. Trying to find an European server to play with 2 friends is a nightmare, and trying to launch a match with a full party is right out impossible. This game has the worst matchmaking i have ever seen, open/closed beta or not.

I understand that the issue is not of the simple sort, but still, i would assume that it would be highest on the priority list regarding things to fix/patch/update.

I would probably have many more hours of this game under my belt, but since the issues discussed above are not resolved, I'll just have to spend my time (And money for that matter, as i DO support F2P games) elsewhere.

SaintSugar
17th Sep 2014, 06:08
Warning, wall of text with some potential errors~!

Play as Tyrant:

Use jump! = Every class expect alchemist got in standard loadout cc to counter it, you just get bola, knives, hex in the face and you can say bye bye to cruel world until you got ignore of pain skill with makes you possibility to only run away in shame.
Use charge! = So predictable, that when you show up, you get instantly in the face 2x charged arrows [around 475*2 dmg], several globes[around 230*3] and all spam of bolts[around 70*5 dmg] or heavy pistols[around 160*2 dmg] so a good reacting team kills you before you even reach them. [Total around average 950 + 690 + ( 350 or 320) dmg =1990 or 1960 dmg "You DEAD you hear me...DEAD!" (if you go first).

This two mechanics are cool, but very ineficient in practice, until you had a good timing on jump/charge [forget about going first]. This is why Tyrant even if it was designed as tank/initiator, can't really even initiate first, because of massive weaknesses you aplied on him. It enough pain, that Tyrant is so slow, you barely can hit anything until you use super risky enrage.

I love Jumper Tyrant and for me this is a shock you actually intended to nerf his ONLY good travel option. Was super fun to do triple, even quadra jumps to travel quick between locations [quadra only on provinence, it happen for me once so nothing serious to use in practice], Traveling by building is anyway very risky, because then you can get shoot by prophets, scouts and sometimes hunters. You were as well very predictable on "where" you will be, so you really only used it for travel, not any other jumping advantage.

If you intend to nerf Tyrant even more to the ground, then at least try to research your design and think about proper concept to make him more viable (You need PERFECT team to actually utilize his skills properly or enemy who don't know basics). Game is fun, addictive and got potential, but when i watch more progress the more i feel displeased, because expect good graphics, animations, music there is always problem with balancing and properly utilized code [another 500 mega for this? Ekhem...several executions and small changes/fixes? You know for example that performance of my game from one of your enormous 1+ giga patches just dropped by 20 fps? Junked code is probably the most horrible and cruel thing for any game, as well then the hardest and irritating to correct it later. ]

I aprietate all the current work (thx as well for small nerf on whip, but it should be long, long time ago already, not now), but i feel everytime more and more dissapointed. Wish you everything well.

Still babling~

Prime_Abstergo
17th Sep 2014, 06:49
Executions for cash only and a nerf to the only usable tyrant ability. Great patch nuff said.

Now I will test EVERY building in the game and IF Jump won't work at least in one of them I'll say "forever goodbye" to Tyrant.

warpster69
17th Sep 2014, 08:04
I agree that we have waited too long for such little fixes. However for a 500mb update there is more going on behind the scenes. They have most likely added in a lot more content, maybe the new MM system, crafting system, new characters or new maps but only gonna implement in the next update.

But square-enix, you need to start communication to your community. We are here to help you but require communication from you, not just forum member but from the actual dev team. I have also considered uninstalling the game but I feel this game has a lot of potential and i would like to be a part of it until it reaches its prime.

AS for the tyrant jump. If it was a glitch from the beginning then its good its gone, maybe in the near future they will sort him out, but lest be fair, he can be a b!t(h to take down if used by a player who knows him well

Redthrist
17th Sep 2014, 08:30
As for Jump being shut down so easily, why not allow Jump to always cause landing damage/stagger even if a CC is used on them? There's 3 classes that shut down Jump with default abilities. I mean, why should 3 little knives, a little chain or a curse nullify the inertia of a +500lbs falling object?
Yeah, I never understood how disabling Tyrant could prevent getting damaged from him still falling on you.

Tyrant Jump cancel was a bug guys. It was never intended to work that way, but (in my opinion) was left in while higher priority bugs were worked on. It wasn't broken or OP in TDM; but if mastered, the cancel was really good in Siege.


AS for the tyrant jump. If it was a glitch from the beginning then its good its gone, maybe in the near future they will sort him out, but lest be fair, he can be a b!t(h to take down if used by a player who knows him well
I don't understand this argument. Who cares if it's a bug if it was an interesting mechanic? I play a lot of Dota 2, and one of the reason this game is so complex and competetive is that there are lots of advanced mechanics in it that were were bugs, or due to limitations of Warcraft 3 engine. If it's not gamebreaking, if it adds new edge into the game, leave it in game.


I personally didn't like it because it gave an unfair advantage to players who knew about it (however small the advantage was); it's the same with melee+dodge cancel.

So? The players that didn't know about it can learn, so there is nothing unfair here. If they don't want to learn, that's their own problem. It's like saying that shooting in the head in Counter-Strike is an unfair advantage, because not everyone knows about it or knows how to hit it.

riccetto80
17th Sep 2014, 09:13
the size of the patch means not too much, can be other reason to have a 500mb update, not mean necessary they added other stuff in the game beside the patch note says.

anyway, this patch added, for me at least, a new bug, after first round, in the start of 2 i was unable to spawn, i can see the map, but i cannot see my player, move, do nothing, another one in my team stuck the same way, they told me is a bug, you need to wait a merciful enemy to kill you, then you can spawn normal...

after 2 minuts wait i simple left the match...

i ever experienced this bug before, seems to exists since before this patch, but now i experience too this bug, lol.

Obisher
17th Sep 2014, 10:22
The new executions are nice, and considering they are cosmetic items and don't alter your playstyle, I presumed they will be buyable only with runes. So that didn't surprise me. Now regarding Tyrant's Jump, although I don't play him very often, I still think that "bug" of not triggering cooldown was a good addition to improve his movement on the map. So I have to agree with most people here, I think it was an unnecessary nerf.

Now, I don't use whip on hunter, but I noticed enemy hunters missing me with whip more often than before, so it looks like the damage cone was adjusted as well. Regarding sticky grenade fix, it seems better. And considering optimization, it seems slightly better than before. During recording my FPS would vary between 36 and 44 FPS, but now it seems to be between 40 and 50 FPS. Looks like it almost never drops below 40 now, but I still need to play some more to confirm it.

-----------

And this part is not about patch, but about interacting with community. I just remembered that you guys had planned to do Twitch streams, something like dev diary. And (if I remember correctly) you said these are going to be regular streams. One stream is going to do Psyonix, another SE, then Psyonix again etc. First and last of those streams was on May 23rd. It seemed like a great idea. What happened with that?

I understand you have a lot of work to do with the game, but giving us some more insight into what you are doing might make community much happier. I mean, there was no new patch for almost one month, and this patch contained some minor stuff and few new execution animations. So it's understandable people are disappointed. I also read you don't like giving deadlines or promising something because some people will consider that we'll be getting that 100% and might give you **** if you'll still need more time for developing or decide to completely remove some new ability because it isn't working well. But if you have to, say every time during this dev diary that these things are W.I.P. and may not get in the game.

By the way, this dev diary can even be a forum thread as far as I'm concerned. You can do a dev diary every week or two, say on what you've been doing, what's giving you headaches... Whatever is less time consuming and easier for you to do :)

Shikei001
17th Sep 2014, 10:27
the size of the patch means not too much, can be other reason to have a 500mb update, not mean necessary they added other stuff in the game beside the patch note says.

anyway, this patch added, for me at least, a new bug, after first round, in the start of 2 i was unable to spawn, i can see the map, but i cannot see my player, move, do nothing, another one in my team stuck the same way, they told me is a bug, you need to wait a merciful enemy to kill you, then you can spawn normal...

after 2 minuts wait i simple left the match...

i ever experienced this bug before, seems to exists since before this patch, but now i experience too this bug, lol.

This seems to be a big problem right now... :( http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=17022

AntiqueGod
17th Sep 2014, 10:48
#ThanksNosgoth

Saikocat
17th Sep 2014, 11:27
Hey folks,

Thanks everyone for the feedback, we do read it and appreciate it!

I appreciate that matchmaking changes, private matches, new maps, new classes, crafting etc are all things you're eager to see, but as you can imagine these take time to develop. Something not being included in this patch doesn't indicate it isn't being worked on.
Matchmaking changes in particular are a top priority.

Our streams, more video content, and similar info for the blog, will be kicking off again so you'll be seeing more of that stuff going forward. We can't always show everything you want though, but hopefully it'll be of interest and give you some insight into what we're doing :) There is a lot of content on the horizon, some of which we've teased (like the new classes), some of which we haven't. Content that is coming soon, and content that's coming later down the line. There's a lot to get through, a lot of stuff we want to add for everyone, and we appreciate the support from everyone and how eager you are to get more Nosgoth! We are here, and working hard on the game.

On the executions specifically, we'll have some videos coming up to show them off (in-game footage) so you can see what they look like aside from the store viewer (and in case you haven't encountered them in a match yet). The executions are a cosmetic only item so are intended to be like the skins, so won't provide an advantage, and purchase wise work the same as skins do, give their "cosmetic only" nature.

Prime_Abstergo
17th Sep 2014, 11:45
The executions are a cosmetic only item so are intended to be like the skins, so won't provide an advantage, I think Sentinel's new execution provides an advantage to enemy players. One thing you lean to the ground and suck, and another one - swinging your wings making yourself an easy target :scratch: With this new execution Sentinel can't count on boxes as a temporary hideout.

Vampmaster
17th Sep 2014, 11:46
Hey folks,

Thanks everyone for the feedback, we do read it and appreciate it!

I appreciate that matchmaking changes, private matches, new maps, new classes, crafting etc are all things you're eager to see, but as you can imagine these take time to develop. Something not being included in this patch doesn't indicate it isn't being worked on.
Matchmaking changes in particular are a top priority.

Our streams, more video content, and similar info for the blog, will be kicking off again so you'll be seeing more of that stuff going forward. We can't always show everything you want though, but hopefully it'll be of interest and give you some insight into what we're doing :) There is a lot of content on the horizon, some of which we've teased (like the new classes), some of which we haven't. Content that is coming soon, and content that's coming later down the line. There's a lot to get through, a lot of stuff we want to add for everyone, and we appreciate the support from everyone and how eager you are to get more Nosgoth! We are here, and working hard on the game.

On the executions specifically, we'll have some videos coming up to show them off (in-game footage) so you can see what they look like aside from the store viewer (and in case you haven't encountered them in a match yet). The executions are a cosmetic only item so are intended to be like the skins, so won't provide an advantage, and purchase wise work the same as skins do, give their "cosmetic only" nature.

You could always show some concept art in the meantime. ;)

EDIT: Oh, that's what you meant about the blog/videos? (Duh!)

Louves
17th Sep 2014, 11:48
So no fix to Deceivers disguise? I hate when I go invisible and suddenly some parts of the character model become visible again :/

Saikocat
17th Sep 2014, 12:21
You could always show some concept art in the meantime. ;)


More concept art (for characters for instance) is something we'll definitely be showing off in time :)

Connatic
17th Sep 2014, 12:23
"Executions that can only be bought with cash... Sq Enix is really looking more and more like they are just trying to leech money with the least amount of effort.."

Why are Free to Play games always accused of this "Cash Grab" garbage. Of course they are trying to grab your cash...you can play it for free! This is one of the most fair free to play models I've seen. Everything important is free and there is even a way to unlock classes without spending real money or gold. I would hope they start adding more cosmetic bonuses and sell them for money or else this game will go broke :-/

MasterZtark
17th Sep 2014, 13:03
I think Sentinel's new execution provides an advantage to enemy players. One thing you lean to the ground and suck, and another one - swinging your wings making yourself an easy target :scratch: With this new execution Sentinel can't count on boxes as a temporary hideout.

I agree, this is the very first thing I noticed when viewing the new executions! I -assume- the time it takes to play out the animations is the EXACT same as the default ones, so it really comes down to the hitboxes now when thinking competitively. The Sentinel's and Reaver's new ones really makes them vulnerable standing up the whole time! The Tyrant's animation/hitbox looked about the same though to me. They all look amazing by the way (way to go art team!), but I doubt these would ever be used in any kind of competitive ranked match (matchmaking, Esports, tournament, big event, etc.).

How do we fix this? Obviously it would be dumb to change every execution to have to follow the same animation/hitbox, the new ones are very cool looking how they are standing up even if they make them more vulnerable. I had an idea to make the more vulnerable ones take SLIGHTLY less time to play out than the others to even things out (making yourself more vulnerable while feeding, but getting the entire animation over faster). Sounds like a perfect side-grade that might fit your particular play style this game is known for, except the new ones can only be bought with runestones which just screams "Pay To Win" (or, "Pay to Sidegrade" lol)...

TapxJames
17th Sep 2014, 13:06
Why do you guys keep picking on the tyrant. Of all classes on the v side right now he's the one who needs fixes, not the reduction of skill ceiling on his already limited toolset. Also would be nice if you could run a decent gold sink by square, I get the cash thing but gold is just piling up into players inventory now and I was really hoping executions would be really expensive to buy with gold as an alternative to dropping a couple bux for the animation.

Blackatana1
17th Sep 2014, 13:31
I am glad changes were made to the whip. I am about to go test it out now for the first time. i hope it was exactly what was needed.

Ghewlish
17th Sep 2014, 14:28
With all the major problems that need fixing, and they add in new executions.......welp, I can see where the devs priorities lie.

Vampmaster
17th Sep 2014, 14:32
With all the major problems that need fixing, and they add in new executions.......welp, I can see where the devs priorities lie.

What is an artist supposed to do about matchmaking and balancing issues (for example)? :scratch:

warpster69
17th Sep 2014, 15:03
What is an artist supposed to do about matchmaking and balancing issues (for example)? :scratch:

I fully agree, there is more that one department in the company and they cant just sit there and twiddle thumbs while the wait for other fixes. I think its a good idea that they have added that and i understand why you can only get it with $$$, maybe at a later stage i can get it for gold. I have seen may games charge money for new items and at a later stage you can use in game currency.

KDmP_Raze
17th Sep 2014, 15:54
Good to hear we are getting closer to the new party system. I really hope for a proper VoIP revamp also.

I am a bit confused as to why the tyrant jump cancel was nerfed. It was very situational, no one ever complains, high skill cap maneuvers are awesome and totally needed for the vampire side. The tyrant needs to have his jump cancel reinstated. I feel that bola/ hex shot/ war bow cancels are ridiculous for jump. One simple dodge mitigates half of the damage of jump. It is VERY easy to dodge all of the jump's damage. Charge needs a damage defense mechanic also. Tyrant is not easy to play at high levels, it's almost unused. If anything needs a nerf in this game then it's the humans left click damage. Except maybe alchemist, since its very hard to land unless up close. As a vamp I can dodge alchy nades at mid range. So I wouldn't nerf those. Hunter seems like the most obvious easy to top dps class in the game, and I would love to see some nerfs. I'm only talking about 10% or so. But vamps are terrible versus a decent human team.


LOVE THE WHIP NERF!


As for the executions, I was also hoping for a gold sink with something of this sort. But, I think maybe the weapon crafting would be perfect as a large gold sink.

There needs to be some mechanic for vamps that allow them to compete against humans at high levels but keep the low levels from becoming unbalanced. Perhaps a movement or type of dodging trick. I was thinking something that allow a sort of wall bounce attack or dodge. So we could attack the human, dodge to a wall, and instead of landing on our feet we would plant on the wall like a climb and then when we attack we would spring off of the wall with a double distance attack animation and maybe damage bonus. It might need to be activated with another key to allow us to stick to the walls. Otherwise, we would glitch to a wall when trying to dodge around a corner. Maybe shift and dodge at the same time would activate it.something that takes great timing and aiming skill to pull off, so the low levels aren't wrecked by vamps.

This game needs high skill cap moves and good VoIP. Some meticulous crafting to make the perfect build would be awesome. I hate random crafting attributes.

Anyways thanks for the patch, would love to see some more interaction with the status of the development.

Hixlysss
17th Sep 2014, 15:59
This can't be the "big patch" we were going to get right? This is it? A month for this? I was expecting, I donno, big changes, some balance tweaks to humans and vampires, something to help with the team imbalance (I'm tired of 2v4 matches, seriously) Maybe something to prevent rage quitters (Again, 2v4 and no one will stay when they see its 3v4.) but...really? You reduce the whip damage, fine, but the jump thing...cmon, really? Oh and new execution animations. Awesome. Neat. Where is the gameplay balance.

Seriously, the only thing that would have required "time" to pump out is the executions and optimizations, the damage tweaking could be done easy enough. But cmon, a lot of this stuff could have been shipped out what...weeks ago? The whip change, the inventory filter, the UI invite to party button, all that is SIMPLE stuff(And before you snap at me, I hate saying this, I have a bachelors in game and simulation so...don't rail on me too hard, I actually know at least half of what I'm talking about.) A lot of this SHOULD have taken only a week to pump out if you're busy. The other stuff...could have waited, seriously at this point in time, when the game is what...How many months away from release? 2? 3? And it takes you a MONTH to put out new animations and a nerf to a couple abilities.

Now...I don't blame the developers, I blame whom ever is holding this back. Just...how understaffed is the development team? How many different things are each one working on? How overworked is the development team that something as simple as these changes took so long to get put out?

KDmP_Raze
17th Sep 2014, 16:03
This just feels like an incremental patch. I kinda would expect a big one soon. It seems to be taking a while to fix the party system so this is probably an appeasement patch.

KDmP_Raze
17th Sep 2014, 17:21
the F2P model for this game is perfect. The executions are done by team members who have nothing to do with matchmaking fixes. I have no complaints except I would like more updates on what's going on with the lobby bugs. We are in closed beta and LOVE to feel more " In the development". So getting technical and rambling about the issues the dev team is encountering is a plus to me and most of us. Keep us updated guys. Ask us for feedback on mechanics and ideas. Directly ask. Like the whip nerf and tyrant nerf. I would have liked proposed gameplay balance changes threads. So the devs can hear our thoughts on changes. Blizzard does this to an extent.

Alieth
17th Sep 2014, 18:28
Boo. Terrible change.
Yeah definitely... at least halves the cooldown to 6 or 7 seconds when you reach the limit of the jump and touch the ground

I use to jump like 3 time in sommerdamm T_T and it was so good..

the ridiculous part of this update is that they seriously think we are going to spend 1600 runestones (like 7€ or more) for some crappy execution, they should sell it at like 10k of game gold minimum each

warpster69
17th Sep 2014, 19:44
the F2P model for this game is perfect. The executions are done by team members who have nothing to do with matchmaking fixes. I have no complaints except I would like more updates on what's going on with the lobby bugs. We are in closed beta and LOVE to feel more " In the development". So getting technical and rambling about the issues the dev team is encountering is a plus to me and most of us. Keep us updated guys. Ask us for feedback on mechanics and ideas. Directly ask. Like the whip nerf and tyrant nerf. I would have liked proposed gameplay balance changes threads. So the devs can hear our thoughts on changes. Blizzard does this to an extent.

I fully agree with everything you have just said

shinros
17th Sep 2014, 21:52
Nice patch, really do like the new executions honestly I do feel the tyrant needs to be looked at overall because I hate to say it he is kinda being left out in the dust I feel. Still can't wait to see the concepts of the new classes. Oh YEEEES whip nerf I am happy.

Nemesis777
17th Sep 2014, 22:47
Watched this update on yt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-oG3u2YM9w), and I must say it's horribly wonderful! ;) But waiting so long for the code patch execution is killing me...

Omegamesh
18th Sep 2014, 06:57
Dang, Tyrant garbage... you guys could have at least let the jump activate when landing at its apex height. I'm done.

SquirrelInDaSky
18th Sep 2014, 09:36
The decision to nerf Tyrant's jump is terrible (for reasons stated numerous times in previous posts). It should work as it did pre-patch.

warpster69
18th Sep 2014, 10:28
The decision to nerf Tyrant's jump is terrible (for reasons stated numerous times in previous posts). It should work as it did pre-patch.

Ok, so no one likes the nerf, im sure they get that. Open a thread and get people to state that. Can we move on to other issues...

Khalith
18th Sep 2014, 10:53
The decision to nerf Tyrant's jump is terrible (for reasons stated numerous times in previous posts). It should work as it did pre-patch.

It's not a nerf, it was a fix for an unintended behavior. Hopefully the melee swing dodge roll is next on the list.

ZoneOfDanger
18th Sep 2014, 12:06
It's not a nerf, it was a fix for an unintended behavior. Hopefully the melee swing dodge roll is next on the list.

The problem however, is that Jump Attack is now completely useless. If they would fix the rest of the unintended behavior, I'm assuming it is, then it would be useful. Now, however, the thing that made it useable is fixed and wrote off as a 'bug'.

Currently, when you hit something on the top of your jump, even if you just scrape your little tyrant sandals, it gets interupted. It deals no damage and it goes on a full cooldown. In buildings it's the same, it just gets interupted and deals no damage. Next to that, the smallest amount of CC makes it deal no damage. You keep falling, but it won't do anything.

Besides that, sometimes unintended behavior makes a skill great or incredibly fun to play with and instead of fixing it, should be kept in the game as intended behavior. Jump Attack was one of those skills.

For the rest of the patch, the executions are pretty cool but overal it's a dissapointment. Not because the patch is bad, but because of the timing. Everyone has been looking forward to matchmaking fixes and some balance issues being resolved, but this had nothing of those. The hunter change could be seen as a 'balance fix' but it is not. The problem with hunters isn't in the abilities (Although whip is pretty damn strong), the problem is the weapon. It does incredible DPS compared to other human weapons while his skills are pretty on a par with the skills of other humans. That is what made whip so strong, the second knockback giving you the chance to unload a ton of damage on your target with just your weapon.

I hope the developers will use the feedback of this patch properly and try to keep the community more up-to-date with the proces of developing. I am looking forward to a patch with better matchmaking, some resolved balancing issues and some fixed bugs. Until then I will unfortunately be taking a break from this great game.

Vampmaster
18th Sep 2014, 12:56
If something is completely useless without exploiting a glitch, then it's clearly not thought out very well in the first place. I find it pretty strange how people complain he'd be OP with an aiming arc, but then claim he's useless without the jumping glitch. I'd rather he had a partial arc that stops at the apex and a have the cursor change colour when he's going to land there and cancel the jump. Maybe split it into two variations of the ability if it's too much.

I agree he needs to be more useful than he currently is though. He does get a bit type-cast as a damage soaker and his alternate role as damage dealer gets neglected.

Alieth
18th Sep 2014, 17:28
The best choice to me is put the cooldown on 6 - 7 seconds when you touch the apex limit and land on the ground.

The tyrant is already to slow and the cooldown nerk perk that they made in the past is already a knife in the back for him like the ones that launch the scout, this one is a second knife and i dont want to see a third one.

TendrilSavant
18th Sep 2014, 17:32
Besides that, sometimes unintended behavior makes a skill great or incredibly fun to play with and instead of fixing it, should be kept in the game as intended behavior. Jump Attack was one of those skills.
While I agree that sometimes bugs can become full on game "features," I disagree that Tyrant's Jump cancel should have stayed.

The biggest problem with the bug was it allowed certain attack loops that minimized risks (on top of being too good a mobility option in Siege):

Step 1: Sneak up on a human.
Step 2: Activate Enraged.
Step 3: Hit him with charged melee or Shockwave.
Step 4: Jump onto a roof without activating cooldown.
Step 5: Wait for that human to run to health station and jump on him.


Arguable there were very few people who mastered this, but it always felt like an unintended play style for the Tyrant. Retreating as a vampire usually means you're out of combat for awhile, this is a core mechanic that players pick up early on. But with this bug, it took too long for intermediate players to realized that a Tyrant that retreated with a Jump is not necessarily our of combat.

Also, the Devs stated on streams early on that they are aware that certain vampire abilities can be used for map traversal, but at the cost of it going into cooldown (this bug circumvented this design choice).

Aggggh
18th Sep 2014, 17:48
If something is completely useless without exploiting a glitch, then it's clearly not thought out very well in the first place. I find it pretty strange how people complain he'd be OP with an aiming arc, but then claim he's useless without the jumping glitch. I'd rather he had a partial arc that stops at the apex and a have the cursor change colour when he's going to land there and cancel the jump. Maybe split it into two variations of the ability if it's too much.

I agree he needs to be more useful than he currently is though. He does get a bit type-cast as a damage soaker and his alternate role as damage dealer gets neglected.
Jump wasn't really viable before the glitch was fixed, fixing it made it even more useless than before since it creates a lot more room for error without any added reward to make up for it.

Tyrant as a damage soaker is just peoples' wishful thinking because the readily apparent design intent is to have him as a tank. The reality is he his a big slow moving target with slow attacks and he can take 1-2 seconds more punishment than other classes.

Vampmaster
18th Sep 2014, 18:48
Jump wasn't really viable before the glitch was fixed, fixing it made it even more useless than before since it creates a lot more room for error without any added reward to make up for it.

Tyrant as a damage soaker is just peoples' wishful thinking because the readily apparent design intent is to have him as a tank. The reality is he his a big slow moving target with slow attacks that can last 1-2 seconds more than other classes.

Yeah, I agree with that. That's what I meant by 'type-casting'. You know, like when an actor who is good at one role and then nobody ever casts him/her in anything different, even though they are talented enough to do all kinds.

The other thing is if you're going to include a feature, you should do it properly and make sure it's tuned and balanced and stuff. I don't think the idea about changing the cursor colour or showing the apex would be OP, since as you said, it wasn't really viable to begin with.

mingo123
18th Sep 2014, 21:43
So the new update brings a much needed whip nerf.

Leavers are not being adressed, but they added some 'fancy' executions. Funny why they would do so, since all I see now is humans standing while I execute them, I have never seen anyone use the new executions and it wouldnt do anything, since corpses glitch out way more than before.

Instead of adressing everyones complaint about leavers, they introduced a new bug which results in even more 3v4. At the start of the game you can't pick your class and are stuck watching the place you would normally spawn.

Still no bug fixes about being stuck in the environment, just today I saw a sentinel stuck on The Fane inside the wall, funnily enough thats roughly 5 meters from where I also got stuck once.

This patch just made the game worse, and you took so long for that?

Aggggh
18th Sep 2014, 22:01
So the new update brings a much needed whip nerf.

Leavers are not being adressed, but they added some 'fancy' executions. Funny why they would do so, since all I see now is humans standing while I execute them, I have never seen anyone use the new executions and it wouldnt do anything, since corpses glitch out way more than before.

Instead of adressing everyones complaint about leavers, they introduced a new bug which results in even more 3v4. At the start of the game you can't pick your class and are stuck watching the place you would normally spawn.

Still no bug fixes about being stuck in the environment, just today I saw a sentinel stuck on The Fane inside the wall, funnily enough thats roughly 5 meters from where I also got stuck once.

This patch just made the game worse, and you took so long for that?
To be fair, the team that worked on the executions doesn't have anything to do with coding the matchmaking system.

Illusa
19th Sep 2014, 01:56
...
Instead of adressing everyones complaint about leavers, they introduced a new bug which results in even more 3v4. At the start of the game you can't pick your class and are stuck watching the place you would normally spawn.
...


I'm sorry but not everyone wants to see punishment handed out to leavers. As I personally find that a horrible mechanic in many games today that breeds a sour community instead of a positive community. It is an easy fix but not a proper fix. Thus fixing it should take more time than just punishing leavers. Leavers already are punished by not getting XP/Gold for not sticking around.

Personally I don't feel games should start unless there is for sure a 4v4. In "theory" their idea works with how quickly someone else can come in to replace. But it actually can cause issues instead. Because the only amount of time they have to keep that new person is up until the first kill. Because after that, they could be fighting an uphill battle and they won't want to bother. And that turns into people leave after someone else left and you never get a 4v4.

What would be better is to reward people for staying in games longer. Such as more gold/xp the more games you play in a row, with a cap at how much more you can get obviously. Ultimately I'd like to see a loser be able to make as much as a winner if he plays long enough in a row. That's not a whole heck of a lot, but that is quite a nice perk. It allows you to always be "winning" in some sense.

At any rate, punishing players for leaving cause more issues. Such as afkers, botters, griefers, etc.. Thus it doesn't solve any real problem. Aka, a horrible game mechanic that is seriously outdated with what should be done in today's gaming. Granted these are issues that can be in the game anyways, but depending on the punishment.. it can go up.

Prime_Abstergo
19th Sep 2014, 06:45
It's not a nerf, it was a fix for an unintended behavior. Hopefully the melee swing dodge roll is next on the list. When did it become "an unintended behavior"? So during alpha and 6+ months of CBT it was intended behaviour? :whistle:

ps. Don't tell me about priorities...

Khalith
19th Sep 2014, 07:19
When did it become "an unintended behavior"? So during alpha and 6+ months of CBT it was intended behaviour?

The fact that they got rid of it proves it was an unintended behavior or at the very least something they didn't want in the game. Either way, it doesn't matter, it's gone, regardless of what they thought of it.

Lomonop
19th Sep 2014, 08:55
At the start of the game you can't pick your class and are stuck watching the place you would normally spawn.
Have you checked that this wasn't caused by an expired perk or weapon in your load out?
If that's the case, it isn't a new bug. This "bug" (technically it's a flaw or even intended behaviour) has been in the game since the beginning.

mingo123
19th Sep 2014, 16:26
I'm sorry but not everyone wants to see punishment handed out to leavers. As I personally find that a horrible mechanic in many games today that breeds a sour community instead of a positive community. It is an easy fix but not a proper fix. Thus fixing it should take more time than just punishing leavers. Leavers already are punished by not getting XP/Gold for not sticking around.



Well if you dont punish leavers, they will just keep doing what they do. Of the 300 or so games I played, I myself have sat afk in a 4v3 match 2 times and experienced that kindness maybe 5 times, but not more. Don't expect the people do fix this problem, because that's not how it goes. People want to win rather than to have a fair match. I dare say 90% of the games back that statement up.

So if you want to leave the 'punishment' which is really nothing as it is, do you also not care about the new bug that introduced 3v4 games by the game itself?


At the start of the game you can't pick your class and are stuck watching the place you would normally spawn.

Have you checked that this wasn't caused by an expired perk or weapon in your load out?
If that's the case, it isn't a new bug.

I have played since the free weekend and neither I nor anyone in my team has experienced that bug before. I dont have expired weapons in my loadout, and the couple times I had, there were no bugs.

Ask other players, but you should get enough proof, that this was just another bug introduced with this patch that took soo long.

SiD_Green
19th Sep 2014, 17:05
I have played since the free weekend and neither I nor anyone in my team has experienced that bug before. I dont have expired weapons in my loadout, and the couple times I had, there were no bugs.

Ask other players, but you should get enough proof, that this was just another bug introduced with this patch that took soo long.

I've seen probably a dozen players experience this bug since the patch, and have to leave the game.

Illusa
19th Sep 2014, 19:11
Well if you dont punish leavers, they will just keep doing what they do. Of the 300 or so games I played, I myself have sat afk in a 4v3 match 2 times and experienced that kindness maybe 5 times, but not more. Don't expect the people do fix this problem, because that's not how it goes. People want to win rather than to have a fair match. I dare say 90% of the games back that statement up.

So if you want to leave the 'punishment' which is really nothing as it is, do you also not care about the new bug that introduced 3v4 games by the game itself?



I have played since the free weekend and neither I nor anyone in my team has experienced that bug before. I dont have expired weapons in my loadout, and the couple times I had, there were no bugs.

Ask other players, but you should get enough proof, that this was just another bug introduced with this patch that took soo long.

Punishments that can effect people that are doing nothing wrong are incorrect ways to handle an issue. Plain and simple. How a game handles an issue will reflect how their community is to feel about the issue. So you can net a very abusive player base if you support negative features.

I feel rewarding those not leaving and the combination of ranked play will go a LONG way to help stop people from leaving. Thus you have a positive experience and not a negative one.

Also, if you one institutes a harsh punishment for leaving you will see people just afk and wait to lose, you will see people rush the other team solo to make it end faster and you could see people just toss on a bot to play for them and they walk away from the game. All 3 are issues that currently can happen but the scale on which they happen will increase if punishments are increased. Thus you solve one issue and make 3 more much bigger issues. You CANNOT stop people from leaving the game. It will happen.

On the second part with the character select bug, I too have seen it a couple times now. Only seen it at the start of round 2 and it was going from human to vampire in both situations for me that I saw it.

Vampmaster
19th Sep 2014, 20:03
If it really is by accident, the person won't be going in and out of the lobby every few seconds. If the penalties start off small, a player who merely lost their connection or got interrupted, won't have to worry about much more that a 30 second timeout.

XJadeDragoonX
19th Sep 2014, 21:02
As for the tyrant leap, in terms of physics, I feel it makes sense the way it worked. If you jump high and land at the apex of your jump, why would that result in a 500 damage aoe? He should have some fall time before he does damage. That's just physics

TendrilSavant
19th Sep 2014, 21:14
Punishing leavers isn't a viable solution at the moment. A quitter deterrent will only hurt the small server population we have right now. The biggest cause of leavers, in my opinion, is parties. When I join an already in progress game, usually I'm up against players that I know party up.

As for optimization, I think the game is running worse for me this patch. I'm getting 30fps while idle, 20ish frames while moving and drops all the way to 14 while in heavy combat. This includes maps that I don't usually get too big of issues btw, such as Provance and Valeholm. I'd like to mention that my rig could handle every map (at low settings, about 24-30fps) but Sommerdamm at the start of CB; I began seeing performance issues sometime after the first VFX change to Choking Haze I think (not that it's the cause, just narrowing down a time frame).

EDIT: Deleted local content, defragged and reinstalled; seems to help a little but still doesn't run great.

warpster69
20th Sep 2014, 07:39
today would be a good day for an update...

Fendralor
20th Sep 2014, 13:53
Not punishing leavers is a bad thing. I think if the punishment starts small and get's bigger if you do that alot in a short amount of time, it will help. Not now, with the state the game is in right now, but later on surely. It is just unfair for the other players if a player leaves because he looses and is then allowed to instantly search for another game. In my opinion that encourages players to leave games. It happens all the times. Not only before the match starts (and queue dodging shouldn't be punished as hard as actually leaving a game on purpose), but after starting playing, too. And we all know that it can take a LONG time until another player joins to make up for that. Playing 3v4 or even 2v4 is not fun and the people who cause that should be punished for it. The game is really harsh for new players (such as me) without the matchmaking system, and playing 3v4 or 2v4 has pretty much destroyed my urge to play more of it for now.

Still, I would wait with implementing a punisment system until the matchmaking is fixed and working. If the games become more fun and more balanced because of that (which they do hopefully), there will be less leavers hopefully. I would only implement such a system if people don't stop leaving at all.

XJadeDragoonX
20th Sep 2014, 20:50
I don't think the matchmaking system is that bad to be honest. Yeah it can be frustrating but that's literally any game u play that u can end up with leavers. I have leavers all the time and I still have 70% of my games end in victory so it isn't a game breaker. Any game you play people will leave and sure it ruins a match u play. But in all seriousness, it's gonna happen with or without penalty. Better matchmaking will only help so much. I'm not bashing anyone. But in the hundreds of games of nosgoth iv played and either won or lost, I still enjoy playing. So if the matchmaking is a deal breaker for you at this point, this game probably just isn't for you and you're making excuses. No game is perfect and the devs work really hard on this. Nobody wants this game to be awesome more than they do. But I do feel bad for the people where the game is literally unplayable because of some kind of bug they experience. But for everyone else, it's not that bad. Not even close. Especially since this is a free to play beta that you were invited to.

Saranjivac
21st Sep 2014, 13:26
ಠ_ಠ

You changed this, which just slightly helped Tyrant's movement around the map and provided some unique character mastery to the game, instead of something like the broken and unreliable melee hitboxes?

I agree, even tho the jump cd not resetting was probably an unintentional bug, it was so much needed and I don't get your reasoning behind the nerf.



Play as Tyrant:

Use jump! = Every class expect alchemist got in standard loadout cc to counter it, you just get bola, knives, hex in the face and you can say bye bye to cruel world until you got ignore of pain skill with makes you possibility to only run away in shame.
Use charge! = So predictable, that when you show up, you get instantly in the face 2x charged arrows [around 475*2 dmg], several globes[around 230*3] and all spam of bolts[around 70*5 dmg] or heavy pistols[around 160*2 dmg] so a good reacting team kills you before you even reach them. [Total around average 950 + 690 + ( 350 or 320) dmg =1990 or 1960 dmg "You DEAD you hear me...DEAD!" (if you go first).


This is so very true, imo if you idea was for tyrant to initiate, give him CC immunity for jump and a say 50-75% dmg reduction while charging in. Than he can be the initiator as it was intended.


I think Sentinel's new execution provides an advantage to enemy players. One thing you lean to the ground and suck, and another one - swinging your wings making yourself an easy target :scratch: With this new execution Sentinel can't count on boxes as a temporary hideout.

Hah yea, I have missed vampires (mostly reavers) so much when they are feeding with low hp because of the feeding hitbox, tho eventually you learn to shot at their legs, but still the sent new feed is totally the opposite atm.

Maybe have the feeding animation not affect the hitboxes (hurtboxes), to make them all the same?


Also would be nice if you could run a decent gold sink by square, I get the cash thing but gold is just piling up into players inventory now and I was really hoping executions would be really expensive to buy with gold as an alternative to dropping a couple bux for the animation.

Gold sink asap? Yes.
Executions for bunch load of cash? Yes.


The fact that they got rid of it proves it was an unintended behavior or at the very least something they didn't want in the game. Either way, it doesn't matter, it's gone, regardless of what they thought of it.

1sec charge attack timer was gone too, but than we got it back! Because they LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY, as they should.


If it really is by accident, the person won't be going in and out of the lobby every few seconds. If the penalties start off small, a player who merely lost their connection or got interrupted, won't have to worry about much more that a 30 second timeout.

That's all fine and dandy but they CAN NOT introduce it before they totally fix the matchmaking system. For example one of my friends and me can't join each others party before we enter a lobby (we get timed out), so we are forced to first find a lobby, and than invite each other. The problem only gets bigger once we are playing with more ppl, so joining and leaving a lobby that does not have enough spots is a must if we want to play together.

PencileyePirate
21st Sep 2014, 23:15
I just hope the next patch attempts to fix serious bugs instead of creating more of them (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=17022&p=121797), and it would be pretty nice if we didn't have to wait a month. I also wouldn't mind if they stopped making balance changes that were never wanted/requested in the first place.

TendrilSavant
22nd Sep 2014, 04:23
1sec charge attack timer was gone too, but than we got it back! Because they LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY, as they should.
The changes to charge attack wasn't a bug though; it was an attempt to balance unintentional interactions with the then OP Sweeping Kick, and to a lesser degree Wing Flap.


I also wouldn't mind if they stopped making balance changes that were never wanted/requested in the first place.
Umm, a change to the Tyrant Jump cancel was brought up at least a couple of times though... here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=16162), and here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=12541). Not everyone will be happy with the change, sure, but if you don't make changes in Closed Beta then when?

Think of it this way: when there are bugs that only a small percentage of the population knows about (and uses them), it skews statistics in the game. If people are doing better using a bug, then on the devs end it looks like the class is balanced. Removing the bug is just one step in balancing the class, if removing it causes people to do worse with him then changes could be made to compensate.

PencileyePirate
22nd Sep 2014, 09:59
Umm, a change to the Tyrant Jump cancel was brought up at least a couple of times though... here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=16162), and here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=12541). Not everyone will be happy with the change, sure, but if you don't make changes in Closed Beta then when?

Most comments in the threads you linked were against changing Jump, or neutral ...

... making changes is not a bad thing, but making ones that most players are against is.

Vampmaster
22nd Sep 2014, 14:52
That's all fine and dandy but they CAN NOT introduce it before they totally fix the matchmaking system. For example one of my friends and me can't join each others party before we enter a lobby (we get timed out), so we are forced to first find a lobby, and than invite each other. The problem only gets bigger once we are playing with more ppl, so joining and leaving a lobby that does not have enough spots is a must if we want to play together.

I completely agree. The matchmaking system should be fixed first.

TendrilSavant
22nd Sep 2014, 20:33
Most comments in the threads you linked were against changing Jump, or neutral ...
"Most" being the key word. Just because you ignore opinions that you don't agree with, doesn't mean they don't exist.


... making changes is not a bad thing, but making ones that most players are against is.
Most players didn't even know about this bug, so you can't say that a majority of the player base wants it back.

If you have to learn/master a bug/oversight to succeed with a particular class, then there's probably underlying balance/design issues that need examining. By removing the bug, and analyzing statistics, maybe the Tyrant can get the adjustments that many veterans have been waiting for.

This is coming from an avid Tyrant player since Alpha.

PencileyePirate
22nd Sep 2014, 20:42
Most players didn't even know about this bug ...

I'm not so sure about that; it seems fairly common knowledge.


If you have to learn/master a bug/oversight to succeed with a particular class, then there's probably underlying balance/design issues that need examining. By removing the bug, and analyzing statistics, maybe the Tyrant can get the adjustments that many veterans have been waiting for.

Who ever said it was necessary to succeed? I think the old mechanism was useful/fun, but by no means a requirement for success.

GenFeelGood
22nd Sep 2014, 20:50
I understand the logic behind removing the jump cancellation, since it was viewed as a bug, but please give it back. It doesn't really give the Tyrant a noticeable edge over the other classes, while actually making sense on a practical level; and giving him a uniqueness that fits his clan's place as the strong arm of the vampiric empire.

SiD_Green
22nd Sep 2014, 20:58
I find it hard to believe it was a "bug" anyway. I think it was just not something they expected to be useful. If the only problem with it was lack of knowledge, there are better solutions than removing a fun, mildly useful mechanic.

Khalith
22nd Sep 2014, 21:02
I find it hard to believe it was a "bug" anyway. I think it was just not something they expected to be useful. If the only problem with it was lack of knowledge, there are better solutions than removing a fun, mildly useful mechanic.

I would rather see them get rid of the unintended stuff (Tyrant jump trick, melee swing roll, sentinel dodge speed boost) and give the vampires actual buffs.

GenFeelGood
22nd Sep 2014, 22:47
I would rather see them get rid of the unintended stuff (Tyrant jump trick, melee swing roll, sentinel dodge speed boost) and give the vampires actual buffs.

I'd be willing to accept that if it were the case, but I don't believe it is. I don't have high hopes that things like the jump trick are going to be replaced with a more proper equivalent once removed.

Fendralor
23rd Sep 2014, 04:25
I don't think the matchmaking system is that bad to be honest. Yeah it can be frustrating but that's literally any game u play that u can end up with leavers. I have leavers all the time and I still have 70% of my games end in victory so it isn't a game breaker. Any game you play people will leave and sure it ruins a match u play. But in all seriousness, it's gonna happen with or without penalty. Better matchmaking will only help so much. I'm not bashing anyone. But in the hundreds of games of nosgoth iv played and either won or lost, I still enjoy playing. So if the matchmaking is a deal breaker for you at this point, this game probably just isn't for you and you're making excuses. No game is perfect and the devs work really hard on this. Nobody wants this game to be awesome more than they do. But I do feel bad for the people where the game is literally unplayable because of some kind of bug they experience. But for everyone else, it's not that bad. Not even close. Especially since this is a free to play beta that you were invited to.

Well, not quite. The matchmaking at the moment is pretty evil to you, if you're new to the game. It's just not fun getting pubstomped over and over again, since you get matched up against people with alot more experience as yourself once you hit Level 10. And there is no learning effect, if you don't get a chance for learning. It happened too often, that my group had an average level of 13-20 while the enemy team had an average level of 30-40. That is what I think is unfair and that is, what keeps me from playing much at the moment. (I'm still playing though, since it is fun indeed, if you've got a fair matchup). If you're a quite experienced player, the status quo might not appear as bad to you, since you got your experience and may be able to win a game even if someone on the team is pretty bad. But that does not work, if you are new and, thus, inexperienced and kinda bad at playing, just as I am at the moment. I'm still figuring stuff out and trying to find my playstyle.

I also know, that this problem will be adressed in the future one way or another, since the devs stated they're revamping the matchmaking at the moment. It's more that then leavers, really. And as I wrote before, I'm pretty sure, that the amount of leavers will lessen, if the matches become fairer.

I too understand pretty well, that this is a closed beta. It's a work in progress and that is very fine with me. It's the reason I said I won't play that much for now, since I know, that things will change, and most likely for better, not for worse. And when that time arrives, I might very well have more fun in the game again.

I do also understand, that my post might have sounded pretty ranting. I guess I shouldn't comment when I got frustrating over a bunch of really unfair games before. *g* I still believe, that people who are ruining games for other people should get punished for it though. Sure, people will leave still, but not getting punished for it seems like inviting them to, at least for me. But, as others and myself stated before, a punishment system shouldn't be introduced, before the really annoying bugs are gone, like disconnects from the server, not spawning, the problems with building partys and other stuff like that.

I don't need the game to be perfect, no game is, as you stated out correctly. But I want it to become as good as it can be and I think that is a wish everyone of us has. Of course I do have my own opinion on what could make this game better, but that doesn't mean that everyone, especially not the guys at SE and Psyonix, has to agree with me.

Saranjivac
23rd Sep 2014, 19:29
"Most" being the key word. Just because you ignore opinions that you don't agree with, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Most players didn't even know about this bug, so you can't say that a majority of the player base wants it back.

If you have to learn/master a bug/oversight to succeed with a particular class, then there's probably underlying balance/design issues that need examining. By removing the bug, and analyzing statistics, maybe the Tyrant can get the adjustments that many veterans have been waiting for.

This is coming from an avid Tyrant player since Alpha.

If that's your problem with it, its really easy fixable...add a tooltip on the jump about it...


I would rather see them get rid of the unintended stuff (Tyrant jump trick, melee swing roll, sentinel dodge speed boost) and give the vampires actual buffs.

If they do get rid of all of it, they will NEED to buff vampires and not by a small margin either.

Blackatana1
27th Sep 2014, 21:27
The whip nerf was not enough. i see still see no reason to ever play any human class other than hunter. It is still not balanced. I hope more changes are incoming.

Prime_Abstergo
2nd Oct 2014, 17:44
Beware, humans and vampires of Nosgoth!

I summon new patch notes into this section! :wave:

MorbidAngel
4th Oct 2014, 10:11
Nice, but I wonder, when will the next patch come? With (hopefully) a fixed party system, and more classes, weapon crafting etc etc, also I'm wondering, will you make bigger maps with more players on it? Like atleast 8 in each team instead of 4, would be MUCH better.

Passarbye
4th Oct 2014, 18:17
Nice, but I wonder, when will the next patch come? probably this next week, but it could be a bit longer.

With (hopefully) a fixed party system, and more classes, weapon crafting etc etc, also I'm wondering, will you make bigger maps with more players on it? Like atleast 8 in each team instead of 4, would be MUCH better.and these will probably come much later, most likely after open beta launches, but they might release the new classes earlier than that. don't hold your breath for 8 player teams, that would make the game an unholy mess and would be much harder to balance than the current setup. :gamer:
Though i can see them making bigger maps in the future, as showcased by our current biggest map 'The Fane' (my favorite one).
Most of the maps are also pretty damn big when you think about it, average players just haven't found a way to utilize most of the space. :hmm:

Rago600
7th Oct 2014, 08:53
The Fane ist the only Map which is the last one on my List.
All Maps have Pros and Cons. I think Sommerdamm is my Favorite.

Hmm there is this map with that Big Tower in the Center.(That one with the Round Circle surounding the Tower) This map came into nosgoth early and has a Lot of Bugs or Glitches.Especially For the Sentinel.

I also wait for the Patch matchmaking is far from acceptable at the Moment.
Thinking of 4 Lvl 40 Players against a 3,7,13,35 Party.

It´s not that the Weapon Balance which is the Problem its the Game expirience for new Players. Which is the Problem.
+ Stuff like you can not Ponuce enemys on Health Stations and so on.

Yes i dont buy Executions.

I Play this Game since November and i love it, but it still needs more Love in the CORE.

Hotabuch
7th Oct 2014, 11:49
Adding big maps with 8 player teams seems to be distant a lil, judging on the difficulties with amount of players we have now, when u have to wait for a while to get 4v4 at least. And imagine like 5 reavers throwing smoke and gas bombs at you... quite a mess. And ye, looking forward to seein' the advanced matchmaking

MasterShuriko
8th Oct 2014, 09:15
Sooo whens the next patch due? its been a while now.