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Syst3mzero
3rd Mar 2014, 21:16
Hunter and Reaver skins.... 1600
every other skin.... 1000

are all the pixels gold plated on the reaver and hunter skins? are they made of the finest digitised silks?

I ask because it seems a little odd and because if I was to buy some skins reaver and hunter are 2 of the 4 classes I would consider buying them for, however at the moment its very unlikely I would buy them as they cost 160% of the cost of any other class. it negatively impacts my want to buy as the majority of time spent in game is those 2 classes. this leaves me thinking "hey if im not going to buy skins for the 2 I use most often why bother buying them for the 2 I play less often."

Its not the cost so much as I don't want to feel ripped off because of my choice of class, it makes it a matter of principal.

I could understand some skins of each class costing more for example the elder skins but I can't understand all reaver and all hunter being more expensive and all other classes being cheap?

Vampmaster
3rd Mar 2014, 21:31
I think those are the only two classes you can use from the start, so maybe it's so you don't have to wait as long to play the other ones. Think of it as a discount for the first skin of each class and you already have one of those two.

Omhxyz
3rd Mar 2014, 21:38
I completely agree, i want to spend money but this is a BIG turn-off for me. Even if i didnt want those skins, the fact that some of the classes got ALL their skins more expensive than the rest, just because they are more "popular"(i assume) is kinda low.

I would be more than happy to pay extra for special skins or even popular skins for each class but every 1 of them for the specific classes costs more? This is the only reason why i havent spent a dime on the game yet.

Psyonix_Corey
3rd Mar 2014, 22:14
All skins are supposed to be the same price, looking into this now.

EDIT: Fixed. The skin price is 1,600 runes, if you got one for 1,000 consider it a beta launch sale...

Square has final say on all prices in the store, if you disagree with it I'm sure they will be reading this thread.

DeputyPotato
3rd Mar 2014, 22:17
I think I threw a little bit more money your way because of that but I'm all good with that you guys need to eat won't have you starving :P

Diexna
3rd Mar 2014, 22:18
Skin prices should be based on the amount of work that went into them or how special they are. Not popularity of the played class.

DeputyPotato
3rd Mar 2014, 22:25
I would like to see a gifting option in the store by the way.

Omhxyz
3rd Mar 2014, 22:28
Thats a relief! and a gifting option would be AWESOME. +++++++++++++++1

TendrilSavant
4th Mar 2014, 07:06
All skins are supposed to be the same price, looking into this now.

EDIT: Fixed. The skin price is 1,600 runes, if you got one for 1,000 consider it a beta launch sale...

Square has final say on all prices in the store, if you disagree with it I'm sure they will be reading this thread.

I'm sure you can look up how popular the skins were when they were cheaper, which could be enough evidence to persuade Square to lower its prices. I'm a little wary of buying skins at their current prices because I have to spend $10 dollars to get 2100 runes to get 1 skin, leaving me with 500 runes that I feel would go to waste.

Syst3mzero
4th Mar 2014, 08:56
All skins are supposed to be the same price, looking into this now.

EDIT: Fixed. The skin price is 1,600 runes, if you got one for 1,000 consider it a beta launch sale...

Square has final say on all prices in the store, if you disagree with it I'm sure they will be reading this thread.

Well that's fine then, like I said its not the cost its the principal, although now I'm left with feeling the usual free to play scam.

I'm really uninterested in boosting my XP or gold and I don't want to easily unlock equipment with runestones as collecting all the skills with reward gold is part of the fun.

Like I said it isn't a scam it just feels like getting scammed that the denominations of runestones are as follows
1000
2100
4400
9200
20000

divide them by 1600 (skin cost)

1000 = 0.625 skins, well cant buy one for this much!
2100 = 1.3125 skins, wooo I got a skin... but what do I do with the other 500?
4400 = 2.75 skins.... pfffffff
9200 = 5.75 skins, oh jesus
20000 = 12.5 skins, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

well looks like I'm still not buying ant skins then. If the skins were 1000 that would be fine, if the runestones were available to purchase at 1600 that too would be fine.

is it just me or does everyone hate the in game currency scam that the gaming industry uses? why the fudge we (the gamers) can't just be treated with some respect is beyond me.

Derakus
4th Mar 2014, 09:01
All skins are supposed to be the same price, looking into this now.

EDIT: Fixed. The skin price is 1,600 runes, if you got one for 1,000 consider it a beta launch sale...

Square has final say on all prices in the store, if you disagree with it I'm sure they will be reading this thread.
Great.... so I should just be fine with the part that your Shop doesnt accept RUB and I missed oportunity to get skin I want for 1000 gems without this bs? THATS NICE!

I was unable to buy gems during "beta launch sale" lol, so right now I consider that scam. Too bad my opinion wont change a damn. Thank you, you just all hate russians for no reason.

And I agree - current pricing with current gems-purchase bundles are complete bs. Either add straight "5-7$" pricetag on skins as additionl paying option or reconsider your Gems-bundles so players wont have ****ty good-for-nothing left-overs after major purchases (Skins, Perma-perks and skills) OR give us something cheap BUT PERMANENT that we can spend our gems on (colour packs, finishing animations, taunts, w\e).

Oroibahazopi
4th Mar 2014, 09:14
Well that's fine then, like I said its not the cost its the principal, although now I'm left with feeling the usual free to play scam.

I'm really uninterested in boosting my XP or gold and I don't want to easily unlock equipment with runestones as collecting all the skills with reward gold is part of the fun.

Like I said it isn't a scam it just feels like getting scammed that the denominations of runestones are as follows
1000
2100
4400
9200
20000

divide them by 1600 (skin cost)

1000 = 0.625 skins, well cant buy one for this much!
2100 = 1.3125 skins, wooo I got a skin... but what do I do with the other 500?
4400 = 2.75 skins.... pfffffff
9200 = 5.75 skins, oh jesus
20000 = 12.5 skins, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

well looks like I'm still not buying ant skins then. If the skins were 1000 that would be fine, if the runestones were available to purchase at 1600 that too would be fine.

is it just me or does everyone hate the in game currency scam that the gaming industry uses? why the fudge we (the gamers) can't just be treated with some respect is beyond me.
It's how pricing works in every f2p since forever. Wait for the obligatory free rune giveaway on facebook etc

Hugbringer
4th Mar 2014, 18:49
With no sort of slow gain in game to earn runestones, as they are priced now I won't be buying them. Individual skins are more than Reskin packs they made for some EA Bioware games. By twice the cost as well

I'll support this game with a founder pack, but the micro transactions are feeling a bit cost prohibitive unfortunately.

k8Faust
4th Mar 2014, 19:51
All skins are supposed to be the same price, looking into this now.

EDIT: Fixed. The skin price is 1,600 runes, if you got one for 1,000 consider it a beta launch sale...

Square has final say on all prices in the store, if you disagree with it I'm sure they will be reading this thread.

Square needs to realize that the first step in getting people to give you money is getting them to open their wallets. Higher price points will slam my wallet shut to ALL purchases.

Case in point, I spent $100 on Blacklight Retribution when they offered the Gold Onslaught Pack, which featured nearly everything released over the past year. Then I put down a bit more after the fact. Warframe offered Founders Packs that awarded unique items and a sum of credits worth more than their regular price. I've spent ~$200 there.

Now, I love Nosgoth and intend to throw at least $30 at you guys, but if prices aren't reasonable, I'm not willing to throw down any more than that. Inflated prices spur people to save money, and damn good deals will spur people to overspend. So, give us some damn good deals before people close their wallets for good; once interest starts to wane, you rarely get a second chance, and you eventually run out of new customers.

Syst3mzero
5th Mar 2014, 00:08
when you look at it I could buy 2100 points to get a skin and pay £6 for a non essential cosmetic change to a single character that I use at most 1/2 the time (1 round vamp, 1 round human) alternatively I could buy an entire game in the steam sale for the same price, sleeping dogs cost me £6, so did just cause, and tomb raider cost £7.50.

now I know you said you need to get back the cost of production (and this also includes the game too) and while I understand it from your point please try to understand it from ours.

a cosmetic non essential skin change costs approximately the same as an entire game and can only be used on 1 out of 6 classes at present and soon to be 1 out of 8 and not only that but you only have chance to use it half the match.

I know this is how you fund the entire nosgoth production but remember its completely non essential, from a consumer point of view I get to play nosgoth if I buy the skin or not and if I don't buy it I get to buy something like sleeping dogs?

Did I buy the dlcs for tomb raider, sleeping dogs and just cause? yes! why? because they were priced from £0.28 to £1.78 which is money easily flittered away. no one thinks twice about spending under £2 that's why when I go to town there is a homeless guy who I buy a pasty and a coffee for and it comes to £1.90 and I don't even think about the cost.

In DOTA I have bought many pieces of armor. why? because most of it comes in at £1 on the market place and I end up not thinking about it!

guildwars 1 I bought the a almost all of the skins (armor overlays), yeah they were £6 but that's the high end of the bargain limit but they had unlimited use and could be applied to as many of the characters as I wanted and could mix and match as they were made of separate parts. the reason your skins don't fit this threshold is again that the skins only fit 1 character and can only be used during 1 round.

If you do create runestone bundles of 1600 then I would buy 1 maybe 2 skins mostly just to show support, if you drop the price of skins to 1k then i'm likely to buy 4-6 at least (dependant on if I like to play the new classes) and probably more once I get bored of the ones I purchased.

the important thing to remember is that selling digital goods like skins as I have stated before means replicated pixels at no extra cost to yourselves, your art department doesn't have to draw one up fresh for each one sold so through lower prices and higher volumes its possible to make greater profits unlike in the real world there t-shirts have to be designed and then manufactured and the manufacturing cost of actually making the t-shirt never goes away.

your choice, doesn't actually effect me really, just an honest opinion.

Psyonix_Corey
5th Mar 2014, 00:40
I don't set the prices, and am leaving this to Square to read and decide on, but permit me a counter-example.

League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

hirukaru
5th Mar 2014, 01:07
@Zero

You refer to games that "old" more then X years these cost indeed less. If NOSGOTH would go on the market as a Buy to Play game it would at least start at around 30 euro's. So it is not really fair to compare to those.

But corey made a nice point here. LoL got a buy system also that is very simular to NOSGOTH and they make tons of money I guess els there servers would be offline now.
Maybe Square will allow Psyonix to implement a system so player can gain Runes in a free method.
1 rune = 5.000 gold?
5.000 gold = 1 rune.

But I wonder if Square wants this though and it will still take for ever :) but then you can get skins for free

Sdoots
5th Mar 2014, 01:22
I don't set the prices, and am leaving this to Square to read and decide on, but permit me a counter-example.

League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

Absolutely. You're forgetting that they also charge for access to fundamental gameplay mechanics like rune pages and outright playable characters, which, while available with in game currency, require a tedious grind. That said, it's an incredibly accessible Dota-like with a massive fanbase. Out of every F2P game, I honestly think LoL is one of the worst examples of a store for those reasons. It's ridiculous to claim to be a competitive title, and then not give your players an even playing field unless they open their wallets or dedicate hours upon hours. Many of those 6300 point heroes are acknowledged as being more powerful than others, yet cost the same as any other hero when bought with real money. That's not cool.

The last straw was when I caught onto the "cycle". Where they put out a new crazy OP hero for a week, then nerf it once they make money off it. It's a cycle you can consistently count on with LoL. If only more of the playerbase caught on.

I know you mentioned skins, but the money is coming from more than that. This tactic of rotating in a new OP hero every so often, and making people buy an individual rune page for each hero they want to make the most out of? That's the real money maker. It's absolutely disgusting.

Syst3mzero
5th Mar 2014, 02:14
I don't set the prices, and am leaving this to Square to read and decide on, but permit me a counter-example.

League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

yes you are quite right Corey, I'm sure they have plenty of cash, they are doing quite well for themselves. League of legends has a cult like following this affords them to set the prices quite high. however your prices are higher as the prices I have quoted are £ and the prices you have quoted are $ and I'm sure you realise that $7 is a mere £4.20. I also disagree with their denominations. Hell I accumulated enough points through refers to buy a skin yet I didn't.

at the moment there are a lot of excited and angry LOK fans, some are really excited about Nosgoth which is great, some are angry because its a MOBA not a story driven game. so you got a bit of a split in the fan base but you do get some excited people because its LOK this will help popularity plus you will pick up people new to LOK and that's fantastic for us and you and its great that elder skins are coming to really make the link between games feel even more real and they should be for the true fanatics, the people who will pay out large sums to buy skins like the people who do in LOL. I really mean no offense but some of the skins already available especially for the reaver really don't vary that much at all from the standard model and in the heat of battle you can only tell its different by hue, the reaver skins feel like they were rushed. for 975 riot points the skins in LOL are often a complete overhaul of the character's aesthetics.

what Im trying to say is and again I mean no disrespect to the artists but some of the skins have a budget feel to them. the reason I started this thread was surprise that the skins which rock like the sentinel ones were 1000 and the less impressive reaver ones were 1600 and as you pointed out it was a mistake.

I expected to see something like basic skins varying in price suiting a price point for different groups of people from the "i just don't want a basic skin" crowd to the "look at how much money I spent and how fabulous my skin is" crowd.

that's where DOTA has the edge over LOL in that there are varying qualities from common to legendary. a multi layered approach to sales casts a wider net yet can still catch the bigger fish who want to spend more and say "look at me" while not alienating the more budget conscious like myself.

I have been on the big spender end of the scale when I used to make a rather large wage and now thanks to disability I'm at the other end of the scale so I see it both ways.

if you aren't quite getting what I'm getting at take a few days off, you have been cooped up too long. people are no longer all just paying the premium for apple products they are buying android devices at a range of price points which is eroding apples sales and expanding android both in the high and low priced brackets. all cars are not priced at the same price but despite that not everyone buys the cheapest car.

the attitude towards micro transactions in games is insane. imagine if the entire pc industry said from now on all we will make is pcs priced at £1000 no more no less (that's like $1700) so that's like no more budget £500 machines or £750 mid range or even top of the range £1500.
one of the basic principals of sales is to know your target audience and cater for them to maximise sales.

as I said before its an opinion and if you merely want to take the money from the have cash to burn crowd that's fine, if you don't want to sell to the less wealthy too by introducing scaled pricing that's fine. if you are quite happy selling 2 skins for 3200 instead of 4, 5 or 6 skins at 1000 each (4000-6000 total) that's fine too.

I'm not angry or raging just disappointed that you are doing the same as the rest of the crowd, lacking originality when it comes to pricing and not strategically thinking about maximising profits. I also am defiantly 100 percent not saying you cant make a profit with your current model but just expressing an opinion that tiers could improve it.

But after that long post I will say I do understand its not your department Corey and I would like to say thanks for your reply :)

Syst3mzero
5th Mar 2014, 02:37
Absolutely. You're forgetting that they also charge for access to fundamental gameplay mechanics like rune pages and outright playable characters, which, while available with in game currency, require a tedious grind. That said, it's an incredibly accessible Dota-like with a massive fanbase. Out of every F2P game, I honestly think LoL is one of the worst examples of a store for those reasons. It's ridiculous to claim to be a competitive title, and then not give your players an even playing field unless they open their wallets or dedicate hours upon hours. Many of those 6300 point heroes are acknowledged as being more powerful than others, yet cost the same as any other hero when bought with real money. That's not cool.

The last straw was when I caught onto the "cycle". Where they put out a new crazy OP hero for a week, then nerf it once they make money off it. It's a cycle you can consistently count on with LoL. If only more of the playerbase caught on.

I know you mentioned skins, but the money is coming from more than that. This tactic of rotating in a new OP hero every so often, and making people buy an individual rune page for each hero they want to make the most out of? That's the real money maker. It's absolutely disgusting.

agreed, I have done the tedious grind to get all my heroes (I have a few not a lot).
I think its competitive status is more based on its age, I think if it were releasing now it would be laughed out but it established its self early enough in the rising MOBA popularity. I totally agree with what you said about the cycle and yes my 6300 point heroes are obviously OP compared to the cheap ones.

I think games companys think the world stands still when a new type of game becomes popular (it doesn't have to be 1st just be at the right time) wow wasn't the first subscription MMO but it came out close to people getting higher bandwith connections and had an army of blizzard fans. LOL wasn't the first free to play MOBA but it came out just before the genre became popular (obviously making the genre more popular) and brought a new dynamic to many players and at the time was the most honestly free to play quality game.

if we look at the follow up to these games we see a graveyard full of copy cat business model games, lets face it most subscription MMOs either survived off Korean players making little money or went "free to play" but not really as you had to subscribe to get things like areas and then dropped dead.

often monetisation requires timing and innovation but few are capable of such things. being the 1st to make a genre work often is your best bet at profit (note I said make it work not come up with the basic premise).

k8Faust
5th Mar 2014, 03:01
I don't set the prices, and am leaving this to Square to read and decide on, but permit me a counter-example.

League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

I'm no fan of the whole MOBA craze (had my fill back when it was just a map in Warcraft 3), but their monetization scheme is just underhanded. However, Sdoots' mention of flavor-of-the-week items is--or was--true for Tribes Ascend, and is likely common-practice in many other titles. Not something I'd suggest doing as it can wreck a community, especially a smaller one.

Indeed, they may be doing alright, but it is on the backs of a small percentage of players, I'm sure. I imagine they'd do phenomenally well with a fairer and more attractive pricing, but big wigs want more bang per transaction for digital goods, and--let's be honest--there's plenty to monetize when it comes to digital goods.

The MOBA already had a following long before people started to try and capitalize on the game type, and it's this pre-existing popularity that rocketted the most refined and visually appealing of them--these DOTA clones and sequels--to the forefront of competitive gaming. That there are so many iterations of this game type is proof enough of it's pre-existing popularity. Games like Nosgoth and SMITE exist on the edge of these core (classic DOTA) MOBA games, and are unlikely to enjoy nearly as much popularity, regardless of established fanbase.

For monetization in Nosgoth, please be mindful of the success and popularity of these titles: Bloodline Champions, Archeblade, SMITE. These are more like Nosgoth, but don't have an existing base AFAIK. I'm certain that Nosgoth will enjoy more popularity than these titles.

At the very least, offer up content bundles on Steam. A skin and three pieces of complimentary equipment and perk, plus a small sum of Runestones could be appealing to new players. Offer one or more per character and the current roster would support 24 variations (though some would overlap). A larger bundle could include--for a single character--all four skins, all equipment, a handful of perks, and a tidy sum of Runestones. One pack per character means six bundles. A collector's bundle could encompass all existing items in the store plus a hefty sum of Runestones and perhaps some unique identifier. The larger the bundle, the bigger the discount. It never hurts to include in such packs at least one item that is otherwise unobtainable.

Boreaquis
5th Mar 2014, 06:41
I don't set the prices, and am leaving this to Square to read and decide on, but permit me a counter-example.

League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

First of all, League of Legends is a completely different game. There are several reasons for its popularity; it was the first f2p Dota-like game, and it does well at being a more accessible version of Dota (which is also an extremely popular game, although with a fairly steep learning curve).

The game you should be comparing yourselves to is really Team Fortress 2, which is by far the successful game in the f2p competitive team-based shooter space. Team Fortress 2 dominates this genres, similar to what Dota 2 and LoL does for Dota-like games, and will be the game you're "competing" with. Valve has proven that you don't need customer-unfriendly schemes like a virtual currency to be financially successful, although to be fair they certainly do have other interests than just the successes of their titles (due to Steam). Similarly, Microsoft retired their virtual currency not too long ago.

Other games to learn from Tribes Ascend and MechWarrior Online, which (in my opinion) were/are great games similar to Nosgoth, which were let down by the business practices of their developers/publishers.

Boreaquis
5th Mar 2014, 06:48
Overall, I think the business model for Nosgoth looks promising. I'll definitely that I'm much more likely to buy 2 skins for 5$ each than to buy 1 for 7.50$ where I'll have to also put in an additional 2.50$ that there's nothing I want to purchase for.

What I do have to commend Square Enix for is that the Euro exchange rates actually are actually accurate, which is something I can't (sadly) say for all games.

blincoln
6th Mar 2014, 02:47
If anyone from Square-Enix' marketing/business department is reading this thread, my recommendation is to do the math and figure out how much it would cost in real-world money to buy all of the add-ons to complete the "free" game. If it's more than twice the cost of a retail game, I think it's safe to say that unless this game is wildly successful (like Halo, Call of Duty, or World of Warcraft-level successful), then that pricing model is not going to work out very well.

I think there is a potentially a ton of money to be made from this game, but setting the prices up so that it costs many hundreds of dollars to get the complete game is not going to make that happen.

TendrilSavant
6th Mar 2014, 19:25
League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

What works for one game won't necessarily work for another. They get away with their system for a variety of reasons, popularity definitely being a factor. The low skill floor of LoL being another, they have a huge player base because of how accessible the game is to most gamers. There are more factors but I'd like to bring up 2 reason why Nosgoth shouldn't emulate LoLs economy; Nosgoth's asymmetry and pre-paid gift cards.

I have a feeling that someone at Square is overlooking the Nosgoth's asymmetrical nature. When you buy a skin in LoL/Dota2, you're investing in your favorite class. You're planning on playing that character most of the time. Since you'll only be able to use a skin you buy for Nosgoth half the time, some (if not many) will see it as a bad investment.

One other point worth mentioning is income coming from gift cards. League of Legends offers prepaid gift cards at more locations than you can find Steam gift cards. Plus having the name of the actual game on it allows non-tech savvy aunts/uncles to see the gift card and buying it because "Timmy plays this game, he'll like this."

Sdoots
6th Mar 2014, 19:26
If anyone from Square-Enix' marketing/business department is reading this thread, my recommendation is to do the math and figure out how much it would cost in real-world money to buy all of the add-ons to complete the "free" game. If it's more than twice the cost of a retail game, I think it's safe to say that unless this game is wildly successful (like Halo, Call of Duty, or World of Warcraft-level successful), then that pricing model is not going to work out very well.

I think there is a potentially a ton of money to be made from this game, but setting the prices up so that it costs many hundreds of dollars to get the complete game is not going to make that happen.

I don't know how to tell you this, but that's how it works with pretty much every free to play game, including the ones that are "good". If you were to spend your actual money on everything in Warframe, or Planetside 2, you'd be out an absurd amount of money. It's why free to play is the big thing right now, instead of full priced titles. You make more money long-term than what is usually a single investment per player.

Kind of gross, huh? Vote with your wallets. Support games you like. Let the ****ty ones fail.

Syst3mzero
7th Mar 2014, 03:10
If anyone from Square-Enix' marketing/business department is reading this thread, my recommendation is to do the math and figure out how much it would cost in real-world money to buy all of the add-ons to complete the "free" game. If it's more than twice the cost of a retail game, I think it's safe to say that unless this game is wildly successful (like Halo, Call of Duty, or World of Warcraft-level successful), then that pricing model is not going to work out very well.

I think there is a potentially a ton of money to be made from this game, but setting the prices up so that it costs many hundreds of dollars to get the complete game is not going to make that happen.

I really quite like math but I don't need to even really need to do it to figure out the cost is too high, soon there will be 4 classes, 1 skin for each class at 1600 each is 12800 runestones, cheapest way to purchase that here in the UK is £36... that's for 1 skin for each class. eventually there will be 5 classes and the cost goes up to £48 to get a skin for each class. now count them up there are 4 skins per class so we end up paying just shy of £160... now lets not forget the elder skins and assume they are higher price...

although I don't think this is a truly fair test as I don't imagine most people would but 40 skins + elder skins (however many there may be)

of course I can't be bothered to work out cost of perks, equipment, boosts, and keys. people who want to pay to get ahead won't buy all of these as if they buy all perks and equipment then why would they boost gold?

Now if you are American you may think ooooo that's cheap, well not really £ are worth a whole lot more than the $ thus we also earn a whole lot less of them because of their value. todays exchange rate is £48 (enough to buy 1 normal skin per class)= $80
a normal game will release over here at around the £30 mark but has recently crept up an some AAA titles release at £40.

Khalith
7th Mar 2014, 03:31
1k per skin is way more tempting than 1.6k. SE should revert the prices, the "fix" that put them all at 1.6k was a mistake.

Syst3mzero
7th Mar 2014, 14:50
1k per skin is way more tempting than 1.6k. SE should revert the prices, the "fix" that put them all at 1.6k was a mistake.

you ever watch scrubs? if you did then that opera singer that JD imagined singing "MIIIIII STAAAAAKE" is probably stood behind them.

MythiusIV
7th Mar 2014, 15:04
I will say that I'd buy another skin if the rune/skin setup wasn't so awkward. I'm not paying 7.50 for a skin, I'm paying ten, I just so happen to get a booster packaged with it. Had to show some support, but I do hope it gets changed.

blincoln
8th Mar 2014, 21:49
I don't know how to tell you this, but that's how it works with pretty much every free to play game, including the ones that are "good".

I understand that. It doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that it will be a successful business model in the medium- or long-term.


If you were to spend your actual money on everything in Warframe, or Planetside 2, you'd be out an absurd amount of money.

If I had any interest in those games, I'd be giving the same advice to their publishers.


It's why free to play is the big thing right now, instead of full priced titles. You make more money long-term than what is usually a single investment per player.

I understand that as well, and I think that to some extent it's a good business model. The basic idea of selling parts of a game individually and letting the players decide which bits they want is at least as old as Dungeons & Dragons, and it seems to have worked out well for both pen-and-paper/tabletop RPG publishers and collectible card-game publishers.

It also creates a built-in feedback mechanism for the publisher - if the Spelljammer expansion pack or the Aerotech rulebook sells well, it indicates that players like that new element and so it makes sense to offer more products in that same line. Better yet, it provides the funding to do so :).

However, if the publisher gets a vision of limitless dollar signs and sets the prices too high, the whole thing falls apart, because players are less likely to buy any of the products if the individual prices are too high or if the cost to get the subset of the game they actually want to use is too high. For example, when I was a lot younger I ended up spending (over the course of several years) hundreds of dollars on Dungeons & Dragons and Battletech products because each individual product was priced reasonably. On the other hand, when someone tried to convince me to play Warhammer 40,000, I did some quick math in my head and figured out it would have been probably $250 just to start out, with potential costs going way higher depending on how into it I got, and decided I wasn't going to bother.

There will almost always be a small number of people who are willing to spend a lot of money on a videogame (just like there are people who spend hundreds or thousands on Warhammer 40,000 gear), but I think it's way to small to be profitable on its own given how much it costs to make a videogame these days, and since it puts off the bulk of customers, it's not a recipe for success.

I could go on and on about the psychological and business aspects of this, but I can sum it up by saying that most of the free-to-play publishers seem to have learned nothing from the "horse armour" add-on for The Elder Scrolls years ago, and the joke that it turned into.


Now if you are American you may think ooooo that's cheap

Actually, I don't :). I bought the 20,000 runestone pack because I felt like I'd gotten enough entertainment out of the game (and met enough interesting people) in alpha that I owed it to Psyonix and Square-Enix to pay at least as much as I would for a retail game, but with the current pricing, unlocking all of the things I want to unlock is going to be too expensive in the long term. If I calculate correctly:

6 classes today + 4 more classes at some point in the beta = 10 classes
x
4 custom skins per class = 40 skins
x
1600 runestones
= 64,000 runestones
= ~US$250 buying the discounted bulk runestone packs

That's over four times the cost of a brand-new retail game, and it doesn't even include any of the things you can technically buy using in-game gold but which are expensive enough that it's unlikely that anyone will buy more than 1 or 2 that way (like the permanent perks).

It also doesn't include any add-ons that may be released later on. For an online game that is continuously being added to, I think it makes sense for there to be ongoing fees of some sort - like how Blizzard releases an expansion pack for World of Warcraft every year or two - but if the initial outlay for the complete version of the basic game is more than the base version + every expansion for complex titles like World of Warcraft (or worse, if it is actually more expensive than an entire brand new game console, like the price becomes if you add on the other bits like the weapons and perks), I think that's an indicator that the pricing is way, way too high and will bring in less money overall than if it had been priced more reasonably.

If you ask me, Square-Enix should be leading rather than following, and setting reasonable, sustainable prices instead of mimicking what other publishers are doing. I still stand by the guideline I originally suggested - aim for the initial game costing twice what a retail box would if the player buys enough runestones to unlock everything, and as add-ons are created, lump them together by 6-12 month periods and price them so that it would cost twice what a retail expansion pack for World of Warcraft, Diablo III or Starcraft would cost if the player decides to buy everything - that's to account for the metaphorical "interest" on the "loan" of letting them play the game for free up-front.

I use those games as examples specifically (even though I have no interest in playing World of Warcraft, for example) because Blizzard have pretty much illustrated that from a business perspective they're the masters of attracting and retaining online gamers over time, and making an enormous profit while doing it - their methods and pricing model are wildly successful.

0Exroath0
28th Mar 2014, 02:08
Lets get this out of the way ...I get the game is made to make money.

However I do feel that the current runestone prices on many items is really high.

200 rune stones to rent an item for 7days is a rippoff imo and 1000 to have it unlock seems really high too when considering the gold costs

2000 runestones to keep a perk .. is a ubsurdly expensive

keys at 500 runestones - Honestly I feel thats taking the piss... Im happy to pay for a tf2 key now and again since I might get a nice item that I can keep or trade .. But currently the items given are just skills or weapons with timers on them :S .. Honestly feels like a massive ripp off

Even the boosts seem a tad over priced.

The skins are the only thing on the store atm, That I honestly feel are value for money

I honestly get that the game is here to make money, But I honestly feel its charging too much for the most basic of items. I can actually see that putting of people in the future , I have 3 friends in the beta currently and I'll be inviting more once I buy a founders pack, But already I have people commenting on how expensive things are.

While im talking about money etc, Why cant I buy a founders pack outright rather than having to buy 2 bundles of runestones? You guys set the prices .. why not make it so I dont have to buy extra to support the game?

I love the game I really do love it , The store however is where I see the largest issues in keeping a player base.

Syst3mzero
28th Mar 2014, 03:25
Sorry 0Exroath0, this will go unchanged, trust me.

I tried to explain the whole idea of high cost = less sales, low cost = more sales.

as with the majority of people on earth they don't understand volume sales often beat profit made from high prices.

when you look at the world we live in and the businesses which are closing you can truly understand the way the world works. its the reason ma and pa independent are losing out to monster-mega-mart. its the reason phone and tablet gaming is on the rise and pc gaming is on the decline.

I dream of the day when a game developer realises if they can only shift 200 skins at x or 800 skins at 1/3 x making more money.

I dream of a day when game developers make more money because they realise that making microtransactions so cheap that people don't think twice at buying them.

I dream of a day when sense overcomes stubbornness, when they realise that customer satisfaction fills their bank accounts not high prices.


its not today though.

0Exroath0
28th Mar 2014, 03:42
So so true, But at least posting removes the excuse of "no one complained about the price structure"

I bought 1 key today , opened a chest and .. yup a 30 day weapon .. joy

Honestly the money for the founders pack is going else where 1 skin and 2 weapons skins really doesnt sell it to me anymore.

Quoting Psyonix_Corey "In general we don't want players to specifically grind for a "carrot on a stick" - it encourages a game loop (endless content acquisition) that we don't want to feed. We look at games like TF2, DOTA2, LoL as role models where you log on to play the game and get bonus cool stuff for just doing what you enjoy (occasional class stuff for the class you like playing, uncommon/rare items to further customize your normal loadout, etc.). "

You guys really need to take alot at those games again .. especially the valve titles .. see why people pay for keys etc constantly.. The items given are always worth it .. here , urgh not even close.. Honestly reminds me of ea games sort of crap :S

Dwapook
28th Mar 2014, 03:48
Yeah.. I've kind of gone from being eager to get into the beta and itching to buy everything there is in the store! To uhm.. Maybe getting a founder's pack before they get pulled at some point..

If I had a lot of money I'd be all over this stuff, but I don't.. I was for sure going to get a $50 in game immortal bundle until I learned it didn't come with 10k runestones..

I've been a long time Legacy of Kain fan.. Have nearly all versions of the games, collect what little action figures and comics there are of the franchise.. I'm no stranger to microtransactions, I've experienced them in games since the late 90's!

If I'm being this iffy about whether or not it's worth the money, that's a really bad sign!

This is a fun game though! When I do buy something, it'll be more just to awkwardly give my support to it..

Viridian24
28th Mar 2014, 04:34
I bought 1 key today , opened a chest and .. yup a 30 day weapon .. joy


To be fair, the weapon lasts forever, but once the 30 days are up, the effect runs out and you can pay gold or Runestones to recharge the effect, if you want. And I'm pretty sure it's 30 days of game time, not 30 days real-time. The timers on my weapons aren't going down at all, since I haven't been using them. 30 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes = 43200 minutes of charge time. Since a game on one side is 10 minutes long, you could play 8640 games from beginning to end with the weapon equipped before running out of charge time. Paying a fee to recharge every 8640 games doesn't sound so bad anymore, does it?

But yeah, perk prices are ridiculous, IMO. For the permanent ones, anyway. But at the very least, you can get everything except skins, boosts, and keys with gold, just by playing the game. You even get an uncommon item chest for every 5 levels you gain in a class, so you unlock free uncommon items in the classes you play the most. Skins are the only thing in the store I would actually buy with Runestones, and they're very reasonably priced. I actually expected them to cost a bit more. The game actually encourages you to play and earn all the equips and skills you unlock, which I think is great. Not only is it not, "pay-to-win," but paying for skills and perks is only if you're really lazy. Gold accumulates surprisingly fast.

In short, the store is fine because all of the pricey items are totally unnecessary. That's my two cents, anyway.

Razaiim
28th Mar 2014, 04:47
Psyonix has no control over pricing and runestone costs. That power belongs with Square Enix, as the publisher, and the end of the day, the primary owner of the property.

DeIYIon
28th Mar 2014, 06:54
So far I have 6 different chests that are all obviously locked. The price to buy a key is currently 500 RS for just one!

I think that considering there is no information of the quality or quantity of item/s that the chest contains that 500 RS is just not justifiable. Especially considering that these items are most likely only 30 day use.
I don't want to be paying money for something that:

1. Will get deleted.
2. Cost's less to rent (and I get to actually pick what one I want)
3: Could be given to me randomly for free after a game.

In fact so far the only things that are really worth the RS are the skins.

Doesn't anyone else think this?

Prime_Abstergo
28th Mar 2014, 08:34
I was thinking like this from the veeeery begining and actually deleted all chests long ago (^,..,^)

In fact this reminds me of ME3 system where you spend in-game money to get a chest with random items

Khalith
28th Mar 2014, 09:05
I don't think the keys are worth buying anyway, I've gotten tons of random greens thus far for a variety of classes and I feel like every one of them is useless, I don't like the idea of those penalties that are added to them. Now if there were greens that offered unique cosmetics though I might be more tempted to buy keys and actually open chests, imagine a pounce where the Reaver's claws were on fire, a crossbow that fired icy bolts, rocks rising from the ground with the Tyrant's stomp attack, etc. Now THAT I would spend money on in a heartbeat.

0Exroath0
28th Mar 2014, 14:36
Psyonix has no control over pricing and runestone costs. That power belongs with Square Enix, as the publisher, and the end of the day, the primary owner of the property.

They do have the ability to voice player concerns to square however.. I hope they try and put forward concerns raise.. Atm the store is the worst part of the game.

Viridian24
28th Mar 2014, 19:21
I think that considering there is no information of the quality or quantity of item/s that the chest contains that 500 RS is just not justifiable. Especially considering that these items are most likely only 30 day use.
I don't want to be paying money for something that:

1. Will get deleted.
2. Cost's less to rent (and I get to actually pick what one I want)
3: Could be given to me randomly for free after a game.

In fact so far the only things that are really worth the RS are the skins.

Doesn't anyone else think this?

:whistle:


To be fair, the weapon lasts forever, but once the 30 days are up, the effect runs out and you can pay gold or Runestones to recharge the effect, if you want. And I'm pretty sure it's 30 days of game time, not 30 days real-time. The timers on my weapons aren't going down at all, since I haven't been using them. 30 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes = 43200 minutes of charge time. Since a game on one side is 10 minutes long, you could play 8640 games from beginning to end with the weapon equipped before running out of charge time. Paying a fee to recharge every 8640 games doesn't sound so bad anymore, does it?

[...] Skins are the only thing in the store I would actually buy with Runestones, and they're very reasonably priced. I actually expected them to cost a bit more. The game actually encourages you to play and earn all the equips and skills you unlock, which I think is great. Not only is it not, "pay-to-win," but paying for skills and perks is only if you're really lazy. Gold accumulates surprisingly fast.

In short, the store is fine because all of the pricey items are totally unnecessary. That's my two cents, anyway.

RealoFoxtrot
28th Mar 2014, 22:47
I also tried to explain this to the firefall team. They didn't get it either.

I wonder if Nosgoth is made in California

MordaxPraetorian
28th Mar 2014, 23:07
I think you're all misunderstanding how this particular dynamic works

the chests spawn items with random buffs and penalties, so in theory once a player all the regular items that they're interested in, they'll want to buy the chests to try to find versions that are more optimised for their playstyles

By making players invest gold/runestones every so often to keep those optimised abilities that they find, they ensure that those players will always have somewhere to meaningful to spend the gold that they build up, or are incentivised to keep investing in the game

It avoids problems like League of Legends has for instance, where veteran players get everything they want and then their IP just builds up in their account. They nab the next champion when a new one comes around every few months but it barely makes a dent on what they build up

As for the cheaper content = more purchases thing, I assure you that every business that's surviving the financial downturn is ruled by people who understand this concept, you don't need to explain it to them. I'm sure the runestone prices in Nosgoth were picked with it in mind.

Viridian24
28th Mar 2014, 23:29
By making players invest gold/runestones every so often to keep those optimised abilities that they find, they ensure that those players will always have somewhere to meaningful to spend the gold that they build up, or are incentivised to keep investing in the game.

Yes, but...


To be fair, the weapon lasts forever, but once the 30 days are up, the effect runs out and you can pay gold or Runestones to recharge the effect, if you want. And I'm pretty sure it's 30 days of game time, not 30 days real-time. The timers on my weapons aren't going down at all, since I haven't been using them. 30 days x 24 hours x 60 minutes = 43200 minutes of charge time. Since a game on one side is 10 minutes long, you could play 8640 games from beginning to end with the weapon equipped before running out of charge time. Paying a fee to recharge every 8640 games doesn't sound so bad anymore, does it?

Okay let me further put this into perspective...
If you equipped an uncommon or rare item with a 30-day charge and used that item every single game, and you went for 2 months without any sleep, and got into every single game instantly, without waiting in the queue time or any lobby, then you would have to recharge it at the end of those two months. Basically, if you spent 100% of your mortal time in-game, playing, no sleeping, eating, showering, or waiting in a lobby for a game to start, it would take two months before you had to recharge an item.

With the insane amount of charge time you get on an item, it's not realistic that they could make any money off of this particular factor. It's more like, they make money off of all the keys bought, if players choose to buy them. In my experience, the negative stats outweigh the positive ones, to the point where I'd rather just use standard items.

MordaxPraetorian
28th Mar 2014, 23:40
Yes, but...



Okay let me further put this into perspective...
If you equipped an uncommon or rare item with a 30-day charge and used that item every single game, and you went for 2 months without any sleep, and got into every single game instantly, without waiting in the queue time or any lobby, then you would have to recharge it at the end of those two months. Basically, if you spent 100% of your mortal time in-game, playing, no sleeping, eating, showering, or waiting in a lobby for a game to start, it would take two months before you had to recharge an item.

With the insane amount of charge time you get on an item, it's not realistic that they could make any money off of this particular factor. It's more like, they make money off of all the keys bought, if players choose to buy them. In my experience, the negative stats outweigh the positive ones, to the point where I'd rather just use standard items.

I'm afraid your argument doesn't make any sense

the devs are still going to get a repeat purchase on an item that a player liked, even if it comes a year or so down the line, that is great forward thinking and sounds perfectly fair to me

What are you going to buy when you have all the standard items that you want? Just because you in that situation wouldn't take a gamble to try to get something more optimised doesn't mean that other people would make the same decision

It sounds more like the Key mechanic simply isn't a good fit for you, rather than being a poor fit for everyone. It simply has a target audience of which you are not a part

smellslikedeo
29th Mar 2014, 09:43
The target audience you talk about is called " stupid customers". Maybe people should stop supporting and defending idiotic business models and terrible prices. The most important decisions lack foresight and economic thinking.
A sane person would do nice little bundles that hold value, and not high priced low value "crap".

1 example: Sell all skills and weapons for a class as class bundle? Make a GOOOD prize and people will LOVE you FOR ITTTTtttt.
Prize it like ~ 4 dollars for 3 weapons ,4 skills and a perk of choice.
Now tell me anyone who spends money on the game that would NOT buy that...
They have endless good possibilities for cool bundles!
The total money earned would be much bigger, and the customers would be happy as well. ----BASIC ECONOMY---
Instead everything is so stupidly high prized, that people that think about their money wont waste a thought on it.

As someone said above, there will be much more customers for actually attractive content, and not overly prized and fancy worded bundles. Getting random things and a name badge for a large amount of money, is only gonna attract that much people.

What are you afraid of? That they will do better prizes for all? Better tell people who want fair business to **** off, or the standard "stop playing if you dont like it. If you want to get rid of the people who fight for a better everything, do reconsider your own attitude as its probably being the one holding the good things back.

0Exroath0
29th Mar 2014, 11:09
The target audience you talk about is called " stupid customers". Maybe people should stop supporting and defending idiotic business models and terrible prices. The most important decisions lack foresight and economic thinking.
A sane person would do nice little bundles that hold value, and not high priced low value "crap".

1 example: Sell all skills and weapons for a class as class bundle? Make a GOOOD prize and people will LOVE you FOR ITTTTtttt.
Prize it like ~ 4 dollars for 3 weapons ,4 skills and a perk of choice.
Now tell me anyone who spends money on the game that would NOT buy that...
They have endless good possibilities for cool bundles!
The total money earned would be much bigger, and the customers would be happy as well. ----BASIC ECONOMY---
Instead everything is so stupidly high prized, that people that think about their money wont waste a thought on it.

As someone said above, there will be much more customers for actually attractive content, and not overly prized and fancy worded bundles. Getting random things and a name badge for a large amount of money, is only gonna attract that much people.

What are you afraid of? That they will do better prizes for all? Better tell people who want fair business to **** off, or the standard "stop playing if you dont like it. If you want to get rid of the people who fight for a better everything, do reconsider your own attitude as its probably being the one holding the good things back.

Everything you've said here was basically what I was expecting on the store.

The store as it is feels nothing more than an exploit our players sort of deal.

As I've said before the skins are appealing because they feel worth your money... Why the hell can I buy a skin for 1600 rs and to buy a perk it costs 3000 rs? WHO THE HELL PRICED THESE!

I have a few more friends in the beta now... well I did, 4 joined played looked at the store .. basically said **** this and uninstalled.

This is a free 2 play game , It needs people to constantly buy from the store to survive. So I have no idea what is going on here.
Are you planning on killing your game off a couple of weeks after open beta?

DeIYIon
29th Mar 2014, 22:27
I really wish they would address this even though its 99% never going to be altered. So far it is the only real big downside to the game...

T00Hyper
6th Apr 2014, 19:22
i would also like to add tht the runestones are way over priced 9200 for $40..........................

ICantPauseItMom
6th Apr 2014, 21:57
I am willing to throw money every now n then at free games, but with the price set atm, not likely.

Timeraider007
8th Apr 2014, 20:30
How about we see it like this.. you can get enough gold to buy the permanent stuff you want quite quickly (... yes.. quickly.. i said it and its fully true) ... you then use money to buy skins.
Why complain about the price of something you dont need... as long as the time to gather the gold is almost even smaller then the time it takes to gather the money in real life, why would it be bad? :P
Developing a game takes tenthousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve quality ... selling stuff for 2 euros with such a small playerbase wont even pay for their coffee

Illusa
6th Jul 2014, 23:19
So I have to say the BIGGEST reason I have no interest in spending money on runestones to buy a bundle is actually one that blows my mind as to why it should be an issue. And to explain it, let me do some simple math.

Runestone costs:
$5 = 1000
$10 = 2100
$20 = 4400
$40 = 9200
$80 = 20000

Bundle costs(in game w/ runestones):
2000 - Warlord ($10 worth of runestones)
4000 - Warband ($20 worth of runestones)
6000 - Human/Vamp options ($30 worth of runestones)
10000 - Immortal ($50 dollars worth, can be attained at a cost of $45 through buying $40 and $5 runestone options)

Bundle costs(steam w/ real money):
$35 - Warlord
$50 - Warband
$80 - Human/Vamp options
$150 - Immortal

Now something is off here... I can spend $80 on runestones and get the immortal pack and then have another 10000 runestones on the side or I can spend $150 in steam and only get the immortal pack. I understand that steam is getting a "cut" from the money spent while using it and all.. but this is just plain silly. Or is this simply the "benefit" of being in the closed beta and I can purchase the bundles cheaper currently and we should expect all the steam pricing to be shifted over to in game pricing?

As a consumer this is quite frankly scary to see. And I am honestly to scared to drop a dime on this game because it just seems too much like a money grab. And if the steam bundle pricing is the future.. I don't see many bundles being purchased down the road because you simply are not getting the value back out of it.

Toss on the fact that a cheap skin (while one of the few permanent items in the game) is worth $9 and an expensive one is $12. Just a skin.. I mean.. holy crap. I can understand the higher pricing due to the fact you don't have much else to offer, but really? You are already having people spend money on limited use items to assure that you can keep getting a money flow.. you have to jack everything up in cost as well? I wouldn't mind seeing the skins be $5-$8 for cheap to expensive. Also a better explanation of what you are getting as well.. like the warchests. What is it? What does it give you? No clue.. but gold is probably better than silver.. probably. Why isn't this stuff listed by the items in questions so people don't have to do goggle searchers to find the answers the game developers should be providing? And if warchests are so neat, why not allow us to purchase them with runestones? While I understand they do give perma items, they do wear out and require gold to repair. Then again, that could be wrong.. as it is random stuff I've come across. So much lack of information is troubling.

I am not saying this is pay to win, because I don't see that. But I am saying the store has a LOT of room to grow in a good way. It currently leaves a LOT of guess work on the part of the consumer and can also leave a lot of rage to those that don't notice the pricing difference. More information to the consumer would be a HUGE step in the right direction. I didn't even know buying stuff with in game money was me purchasing something that was a temp buff, until I purchased it and saw it had a time limit. The UI for changing from the number of days/perm buy hides very nicely next to the picture and the buy costs stands out far more. My eyes didn't even notice it until I questioned my next purchase and looked a lot more closely.

tdlr;
I've not felt cheated personally. I can see others feeling cheated. Game needs better UI for store and better descriptions for what you are buying and what you really are getting out of it. Pricing between steam and in game are STUPIDLY crazy off from each other.

cmstache
6th Jul 2014, 23:33
The general assumption is that the in-game players already have much of the stuff in the game. So they need less rune stones. The incoming players buy the items, and essentially get the rune stones too (they pay for it, although item-for-item the immortal bundle is SLIGHTLY cheaper). Plus, the new players who aren't in the game also have to purchase access (via steam package) which has it's own price tag added to it too. Essentially, if players paid for the bundle and the rune stones on the side extra that the steam bundles get it would break nearly even if you subtract the "early access" that's also being paid for.

Essentially, they are making you buy rune stones WITH the package when you enter the game as a new player as an incentive to use it for "freemium" material (in this game, cosmetic items like skins.) You COULD also buy a cheap 10 dollar veterans pack, and buy the rune stones on the side, then buy the bundle. But, you'd lose a discounted rune stone purchase. So it's entirely up to someone. It IS possible to work the numbers and really get extra though. For example, the recent veterans pack sale I used as a way to ALSO get a cheap higher-tier founders pack at the same price. (Essentially, I paid $4.99 for both the veteran and the war band packs). It really comes down to how good you can work the numbers.

Illusa
7th Jul 2014, 00:19
So... of the $150 someone spends on the immortal package via steam they get the immortal bundle AND $100-$110 dollars worth of runestones as well?

If that is the case.. it yet again shows that they are NOT putting any information out on the bundles and what you are getting. This is a HUGE place for growth. Lack of information is the biggest reason for my lack of sales. I don't know what I am buying from the devs. Why open a cash shop with little to no description of what you are buying? It is bad business and some could really argue about the validity of the company based off such tactics. It could be easily seen as shady and money grabbing.

And the runestones are still cheaper for in game players than steam players. So that assumption still makes no sense as to why it should cost such a huge difference between in game and steam direct money purchases.

I can understand the $20 charge to enter the closed beta, it sadly has become practice to do such things anymore. Personally I find it a bit off but to each their own. They are not hiding the fact it isn't a finished game and it is up to the consumer to buy it or not. But still.. there is a total lack of good information in game and on steam as to what you are buying.

Much improvements are needed. And a bad cash shop can ruin a game even before it launches. And I have somewhat enjoyed the game and hate to see it fail over something so obviously important that has been drastically overlooked.

FireWorks_
7th Jul 2014, 09:33
I fully understand your concerns and I am also comming from the side of customer protection. I raised some flags about their shop earlier and also during the steam sale.

I mostly had trouble with the ingame store. 3 of 4 clan mates, that got the game before me, bought temp stuff before realizing it was only 3 days. Some ate it, 1 was reall pissed and all warned me to look closely at the time when checking the shop.

I did when I bought me a founders pack (whos sole puposed for me was to get that founders booster to catch up with my mates).
It said permanent. Now imagine how ******* pissed i was when it turned out to be 30 days only. No word of limitation or anything, not in the shop, not on steam, nowhere.

Took a bit of discussion but its changed now. You still see the "permanent" when buying the bundle but in the description of the booster its stated to be 30days only. Ingame and steam both by now.

So yeah the shop still has some weaknesses and some things feel a bit fishy.


Finding out that ingame and steam bundles are different things, doesnt do good either. Building up faith feels .. not like that. But thats for the marketing guys and their psychology assets.

I gotta say though, the packs are described in steam if you scroll down a little. You know what youll get for the most part (whatever a warband might be or in those chests, agreed). But personally Id say that is neglectible.
I just checked and what just made me wonder though, is that the booster is only described as for the team ("a 50% shared booster (30 days) for your team"), not as +100% XP/Gold like ingame. Could be a bug, could be intentional to kill p2Win accusations (which are not correct for my judging, solid work there). We wont know I fear.
Its not perfect but personally I thinks tolerable.

The describtion is english only though. It is not translated when I open the shop in german. So if you lack english, you got a big point there.

However in fact the prices are not that much of an issue as cmstache already explained.
I can only work with the numbers in € but lets see:
The only difference between steam and ingame bundles are the runestones included. For the Immortal (that was mentioned as example in the discussion before) that is 30000 for steam and 0 for ingame.

For the Immortal pack to unlock you gotta buy 9200+1000 runestone in the ingame store for €32,85 and leaving you with 200runestones.
If you want to have the 30000runestones of the steam offer too (like for a fair comparison) you would do good by buy 2x20ooorunestones for €58,40 each and €116,80 total. (40k-10k for the pack leaving 30k)

The steam offer goes for €109,50, that is €7,30 and 6,25% cheaper.


Thats for the math for this, but personally I had no idea what i would be doing with 30k of runestones!

With the recent steam sale you could get 4k stones for €3,65 and toss them in ingame packs. But yea, thats a different story. However it still seems to be a good deal to buy veteran via steam and buy a Warband with the included stones. Wheter you like to buy more stones for skins or not, its cheaper to buy them separately, than buying the Warband out of steam directly.


Hope this helped a little.


EDIT: Doh, just realized you posted the $ prices. Sorry I didnt work with them

Illusa
10th Jul 2014, 22:47
I am so used to everyone else including what you get in the items you are purchasing at the top that I didn't really read farther down. Of course it would be explained farther down after they already ask you for the money before you purchase it. Because that is logical. Buy first, questions later.

I can see the pricing isn't that bad, but they are simply making you buy more than you need to just because you are on steam. I find it.. horrible. But I guess that is one way to make profits.

At this point I find it more sad that a true dev of the game hasn't made any comment about this as it is a quite serious issue they have. I understand they are busy adding and fixing stuff in the game, but they need more than community devs and players to respond to some things.

After all, all I've got in response is.. yeah it's stupid.. but that is what they are doing. Which makes me want to *facepalm* more than anything else.

I am glad that you did manage to get compensated for your purchase at least. As I am not impressed with the cash shop in the least bit. It has a TON of room for improvement. And that isn't even discussing buy for temp use f2p games in general.

I shall continue to randomly play from time to time but until things look better, I won't sink a dime into the game.

Blastin_Foolz
10th Jul 2014, 23:05
Yeah, I bought my immortal pack straight up for 115 or something as a deal through a 3rd party seller (not Steam) and when I saw how cheap it was by just paying for runes and then buying it in-game through the store, it definitely cheapened it for me.

Immortal was for people who really wanted to support the game and who get unique swag for doing so, but then they weakened the whole package/idea by making it available for less than the price of a normal game via the in-game store. Sure, you don't get the runes, but who gives a flying Sentinel? I wasn't paying for the runes, I mostly wanted the unique banner and the rest of the stuff that comes along with it. Except Name Tags, because they're actually terribly bad at the moment.

The sooner we get out of beta and the option to purchase Founder packs, the better.

NickTsiou
11th Jul 2014, 00:25
Yeah, I love my 30k runes though.

110 dollars for 30k runes is a ridiculously good deal, especially with how invested I am into this game.

A month ago....

FireWorks_
11th Jul 2014, 08:05
Heres the link if someone has missed the sense of the last posts, like I did in the first place:
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?p=102899#post102899

Illusa
11th Jul 2014, 14:46
The whole thing seems rather silly. The changes come July 22 should bring things more in line and get more people into the game at least. I just hope they do a better job of filling in information for each buy section rather than keeping them blank like they have them now. I do understand the information is farther down, but even they could put that tag into the buy for each package just so people know to read farther down rather than stare at costs with nothing about them.

In case those missed the update yesterday about the founder packages: http://steamcommunity.com/games/200110/announcements/detail/289671070771237900

Pahvikannu
27th Jul 2014, 19:53
Bought access for the beta, first post here, so hi.

First of all, thank you devs, game is absolutelly ton of fun. Really something out of the box.

Not very long player yet, at level 12, played to 10 without boosters, just to get a bit more time at the starting grounds. But anyway, I like the game, and I like the art-style, so I tought I would like to get few skins and support the game while doing that.

But I have to say, I was totally put off when I saw the blatant "bundles" of gems. It is so obviously made to ttreat customer like idiot with the pricing/runestone ammount you get, I don't wanna buy any of them. Why not allow me to just buy with money what I want? OR atleast offer bundle for the price of skin or two.

1000 is 600 short of 1 skin
2100 stones is 1100 short of 2 skins, or 500 extra of 1 skin
4400 is 400 short of 3 skins, or 1200 extra of 2 skins

It just feels like it is bad deal everytime, just becouse the system tells you your paying extra for nothing. I don't personally care about boosters or guns, or whatever.

I know the devs have no part in this, but just to re-iterate please consider an option to buy with creditcard or Steam-wallet or what ever, paying what your buying. That gem only non-sense is there just to milk that extra bit out of consumers, it has no practical purpose what so ever in the view point of consumer. I would had zero problems just paying for the actual product.

Sorry to post such negative thing as first post, I really do love the game atm, but that is also why this bothers me so much.

FireWorks_
27th Jul 2014, 20:23
Bought access for the beta, first post here, so hi.

First of all, thank you devs, game is absolutelly ton of fun. Really something out of the box.

Not very long player yet, at level 12, played to 10 without boosters, just to get a bit more time at the starting grounds. But anyway, I like the game, and I like the art-style, so I tought I would like to get few skins and support the game while doing that.

But I have to say, I was totally put off when I saw the blatant "bundles" of gems. It is so obviously made to ttreat customer like idiot with the pricing/runestone ammount you get, I don't wanna buy any of them. Why not allow me to just buy with money what I want? OR atleast offer bundle for the price of skin or two.

1000 is 600 short of 1 skin
2100 stones is 1100 short of 2 skins, or 500 extra of 1 skin
4400 is 400 short of 3 skins, or 1200 extra of 2 skins

It just feels like it is bad deal everytime, just becouse the system tells you your paying extra for nothing. I don't personally care about boosters or guns, or whatever.

I know the devs have no part in this, but just to re-iterate please consider an option to buy with creditcard or Steam-wallet or what ever, paying what your buying. That gem only non-sense is there just to milk that extra bit out of consumers, it has no practical purpose what so ever in the view point of consumer. I would had zero problems just paying for the actual product.

Sorry to post such negative thing as first post, I really do love the game atm, but that is also why this bothers me so much.

You raise a good point in the current situation of the shop.

This week the whole bundle pricing was changed and the right of existance for runes took a good hit. Before you would buy runes for an ingame-store bundle instead of the steam bundle which cost a lot more but had its value in the runes added to it. Now ingame and steam are the same.

I wouldnt wonder if they would kick the whole runestones concept now and just go for your idea of direct purchases. It would take a step less for the customers and would stop that fishy feeling you decribe by the small leftovers. Better feeling, more cash.

ihKu47
1st Aug 2014, 11:06
I would like to see a regular Buy option in the store, replacing or existing alongside the Runestones (not sure if the latter would make much sense though). The problem I have with Runestones is that with the Rune packages currently available, I'd feel forced to spend more money than I'd want to get enough Runestones for the stuff I would like to buy while being left with a small number of Runes I'd have to legitimate use for.

Say, for example, I'd like to buy two skins from the shop. Most of them cost 1600 Runes a piece, making the purchase 3200 Runestones. I would have to spend 14,60€ for 4400 Runes, and be left with 1200 Runes - just short of a third skin. To get it, I would have to buy more Runestones and again be left with extra Runestones in my wallet. I'm a patient player so I have little interest in buying sidegrades I can unlock later, or the boosters that help me unlock things faster. While I would be willing to spend real money to unlock skins I deem cooler than the default ones and financially support the great game Nosgoth is turning out to be, I would feel like the devs have taken advantage of me. After all, I could have used the money I spent on Runestones I have no use for to help me buy even more skins I might enjoy, instead of paying a little extra for nothing.

In short, the current Runestone system forces me to use my money "ineffectively", discouraging me from any purchases whatsoever. I hope that in a future patch the system is changed to a one where you can buy directly with money from your Steam account or with a credit card etc. Hopefully this would also rack up more money for the developers, as players who feel the same way would not be similarly discouraged by the Runestone system.

FireWorks_
1st Aug 2014, 11:49
Welcome to the wonderful world of shortsighted selling psychology!

SixieV
2nd Aug 2014, 04:30
I think that's the point. If you never have enough left over to buy a skin you keep adding more money. Before you know it you've spent $100 on skins that should only cost $1 or 2 apiece but instead are around $10 each. It's pretty ridiculous so I just make due with the defaults.

RainaAudron
2nd Aug 2014, 10:24
I think that's the point. If you never have enough left over to buy a skin you keep adding more money. Before you know it you've spent $100 on skins that should only cost $1 or 2 apiece but instead are around $10 each. It's pretty ridiculous so I just make due with the defaults.

One regular skin is about 6 euros, evolved skins are around 10 but you can get those for free anyway once you level up. Bear in mind that since it is a f2p game, it has to make money somehow and optional cosmetic items which do not influence gameplay are a good way to do it.

ihKu47
2nd Aug 2014, 10:42
I agree that making people spent even more money on Runestones is propably what the devs had in mind. My point is, I find that such a tactic feels cheap, reflects poorly on the devs and the game, and can persuade potential customers not to buy anything at all. I haven't seen any studies on which tactic is usually more profitable, but a reputation of fairness has to count for something. Right?

SixieV
2nd Aug 2014, 11:49
I agree that the Devs will have to make money somehow once it goes F2P. And really I don't have a problem with the tactic they have implemented to keep people loading funds. Still I think the prices are too ridiculous. The price of Runestones should be lower or keep the current prices but add a couple thousand more Runestones to each set to make it more reasonable.

TendrilSavant
3rd Aug 2014, 04:03
One regular skin is about 6 euros, evolved skins are around 10 but you can get those for free anyway once you level up. Bear in mind that since it is a f2p game, it has to make money somehow and optional cosmetic items which do not influence gameplay are a good way to do it.
The point that op was making was that a skin may have the value of €6/$8, but it really costs €7.30/$9.99 because of how runes are bundled; not that skins are too expensive (which could also be argued). He wants to buy skins, but is reluctant to because he doesn't want to feel shortchanged.


Still I think the prices are too ridiculous.
I think Square is starting to realize this; repricing founders is a dead give away. Hopefully repricing skins or re-evaluating the costs of rune bundles will follow, but I'm doubtful (this from someone who has bought the immortal pack and some skins).

Vampmaster
3rd Aug 2014, 09:04
I'd like to see some more bundles added in future so you can get something of a bulk discount. I bought the immortal pack and one extra skin per class, so that's already more than I'd spend on most AAA games. I'll probably do the same for new classes, but I want to unlock the evolved skins through leveling up.

I'd be reluctant to spend much after that, so it would have to be bulk discounts some really amazing content at that point.

Serenum
4th Aug 2014, 10:47
Before we start, I'd like to note that I've bought the Immortal founder pack, so obviously I'm not complaining that I'm not getting stuff for free, or that the price for runes is too high (although I feel it is slightly so, at least in the EU), what I'm talking about is a more subtle problem with the pricing of some items.

I've been wanting to purchase a new skin for my Sentinel, priced at 1600 runestones. So I go to the store and find that I either buy 1000 runestones for 3+ € or I buy 2100 runestones for 7+ €. Basically, I'd have to buy more runesstones than those I would actually need to buy the skin. So I elected not to buy anything and wait for a sale or something similar.

Now, I get that selling in-game currency this way is not uncommon, but it really feels wrong. Why can't I buy the exact amount of runestones I need? I get that buying more runestones at once saves me some money, but that's not useful if I end up paying more than what is needed to buy what I want.
It also seems (I'm not saying that it is, I'm saying that it gives this impression) like the dissonance between the price of skins and the amount of runestones you can buy at once is a deliberate way to make consumers spend more. Right now there is no way for anyone to buy exactly 1600 runestones, and thus it's more like the skins actually cost 2100 runestones minimum but give you 500 extra runestones as a bonus, which I don't need and don't want.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there are quite a few customers like me that would be more than happy to buy a skin for 1600 runes but aren't doing so because they would have to spend more money and get more runestones than they intend to buy.

DanteChiesa
2nd Sep 2014, 08:26
How are we supposed to do well whatsoever if we cant even buy decent weapons.
Just another pay to win game.
Oh, and also, toxic haze is ridiculously broken.

Sasha_Vykos
2nd Sep 2014, 08:45
prices are just fine to me. I am level 39 and I have 12k..I play 4 classes and i have evrything for them, and I am not interested in many perks. I don't even know how to spend them. You probably just have to play a bit more. I would like a new way to spend money.. maybe for the skin at a very high price or so.

By the way your statement is very poor. You can win with base skills with no problem.. so the "pay to win" thing is senseless.

Vampmaster
2nd Sep 2014, 09:40
How are we supposed to do well whatsoever if we cant even buy decent weapons.
Just another pay to win game.
Oh, and also, toxic haze is ridiculously broken.

The weapons you can buy are intended to be exactly as powerful as the ones you have to start with, just in different ways. If a weapon in the store is inherently superior, tell the developers any they'll add some cons to counter it's pros.

Phytik
2nd Sep 2014, 10:00
The only problem with Choking Haze is that it does dmg you even before it explodes.
Items are not overpriced. You can get enough gold in +/- 4 hours to buy a weap.

RainaAudron
2nd Sep 2014, 10:05
The only problem with Choking Haze is that it does dmg you even before it explodes.

Are you sure that is not a latency issue? I am sure I have succesfully avoided taking any damage when rolling out of its range many times.

TeeSin
2nd Sep 2014, 10:15
said buy a guy who want to have every single things in the shop at thier first moment playin the game ( even offline games wont gim u that option ; first moment playin the game with all the weapons , skills ? Congratz , u already done the game , no need to play anymore )

2.5$ for a month booster , really worth it . Otherwise , u will have 1 pernament item in a few days of playing ( ~3 game a day ) .
If u are a harcode gamer ? Well , u probably get enough gold in no time .


And how it is a p2p game , this is a skill based game . You are just on a losing streak and raging xD . I spent 2.5$ to get into this CBT and maxed out 2 classes with all skills having pernament time .

MasterZtark
2nd Sep 2014, 14:01
How are we supposed to do well whatsoever if we cant even buy decent weapons.
Just another pay to win game.
Oh, and also, toxic haze is ridiculously broken.
Welcome to Nosgoth DanteChiesa!

Decent weapons? I guess you're not aware that arguably the BEST weapons/abilities in the game are the default ones for nearly every class. Everything else you can buy are really "side-grades", and to be honest most of them are going to push you into a play style that is not good for that class. If you're wondering how you're supposed to do well, then just stick with the defaults!

Pay to win? Not even close. What do you even need to pay for to win? Weapons/abilities!? I hope you're not spending real money on those (explained above), and considering how fast you make gold in this game to buy them permanently you would be a fool to.

Choking Haze is not broken, you simply have not learned how to avoid it YET. There are many classes and skills like this in the game, where you think they are OP until you actually LEARN how they work then they are pretty easy to avoid/counter. It does have a very important purpose to give Vampires a small chance at engaging Humans, but not at all "overpowered" (a skill that works as intended and does its job correctly does not make it OP).

Whoopdidoohah
2nd Sep 2014, 14:08
These are the most ridiculous statements you hear about Nosgoth (OP's).

I have everything permanently unlocked in around 200h (abilities not perks).

When you first start playing you should be unlocking items for 7 days, to try them out and see if they fit your playstyle, then aim to unlock them permanently if they suit you. People want permanent unlocks right away. IMO there's not enough stuff to buy because now I stack gold and have nothing to buy anymore. Oh well I didn't get blinding shots, but you got my point. I won't start buying useless perks either.

iviasquerade
2nd Sep 2014, 16:59
How are we supposed to do well whatsoever if we cant even buy decent weapons.
Just another pay to win game.
Oh, and also, toxic haze is ridiculously broken.

I can sudgest you only one thing:
Focus on 2 classes,1 human,1 vampire.Buy 1 week item for those,and don't buy anything else,in a day or less you should be able to buy a permanent weapon or skill for the class of your choosing.I never had enough money for anything when i started cause i was always using lots of classes and buying weekly item for all of them.Then i just got pissed and used the basic load out (the free one) for each one of them while i spared to unlock permanent things..

Exmix_
3rd Sep 2014, 06:38
prices are just fine to me. I am level 39 and I have 12k..I play 4 classes and i have evrything for them, and I am not interested in many perks. I don't even know how to spend them. You probably just have to play a bit more. I would like a new way to spend money.. maybe for the skin at a very high price or so.

By the way your statement is very poor. You can win with base skills with no problem.. so the "pay to win" thing is senseless.
This. I have everything for all the classes I play with plenty of gold left over. It's just you actually have to work and play the game to get gold. Pay-to-win? Not even close. Even if by some stupid reason oyou payed to get runestones to getthe skils early on, doesn't make you a good player. Even then it doesn't give you any added bonus that other players don't get. Every player can get the same eq, everyones on eeven ground.


The only problem with Choking Haze is that it does dmg you even before it explodes.
Items are not overpriced. You can get enough gold in +/- 4 hours to buy a weap.


Are you sure that is not a latency issue? I am sure I have succesfully avoided taking any damage when rolling out of its range many times.
This. I've never been hti with choking before it's exploded so it might be something of as graphical error, or as he said, a letency issue.

Kriegson
3rd Sep 2014, 11:47
OT: Prices are fine. You can easily get enough gold to trial an ability with a couple matches, and if you played a good bit you could probably buy a few abilities/weapons perma by the end of the week.

We also have crafting coming, which will be interesting to see if and how it is monetized.

TeeSin
3rd Sep 2014, 17:16
yeah... have seen many 40s have no idea where to spend thier gold xD . Was seeing some with 25k gold :worship: . Probably incoming crafting/forge things will solve the problems :lmao:

TapxJames
3rd Sep 2014, 18:29
Gold prices are too low if anything. There is literally no place to spend the gold, Im sitting at near 200,000 gold and just nothing to spend it on. This is after a two and a half month break from may and currently on another break as I relocate. I'd like to have a goldsink, though sitting at hundreds of thousands of gold won't hurt anyone else in this game.

OnlyLogic
4th Sep 2014, 06:51
Completely disagree.

1. Runes. Like the game? Spend money. It's free anyway.
2. Balanced. No diff between repeater and siege bow (as an example) except for play style.
3. End-game. Imagine at level 15, you owned everything. How boring.

Khalith
4th Sep 2014, 08:29
The gold prices are a bit high but it's necessary so you have at least something to spend it on for a while. There are a lot of us 40's with nothing to spend gold on, I've started buying permanent perks and gear I don't even use or will probably never use, just to spend gold on something.

FishMissile
4th Sep 2014, 10:49
I agree with most of the other replies here. Prices are certainly not too high. It doesn't make it a "pay to win" but a "play to win". The more time you spend playing, the more gold you will have. Buy and item for 7 days and by the time your week is up, you could have enough gold to buy the item permanently.


I would like a new way to spend money.. maybe for the skin at a very high price or so.
.

I like this idea. It would be ok with me even if the prices were ridiculously high. But I don't think this will ever happen since the game will be free to play and selling runestones will be their primary source of revenue. If you could buy everything in the game with nothing but gold, they wouldn't make nearly as much profit.

If anything, they should just remove the ability to buy items permanently or increase the prices for permanence. I'm already getting to the point where I have nothing to spend my gold on.

KrazeyXII
6th Sep 2014, 06:13
I've had a change of opinion on this topic recently and am now in agreement that prices are too high. I have a fear that this game will go the way of tribes and be too expensive for players that can't afford boosters or to buy guns outright. If the prices were lowered overall by 20% then not only will players willing to spend larger amounts of money on the game (like myself) be able to contribute but also players with less money will be more willing to spend because they will be able to get more for their money.

I've grown tired of games with absurd pricing like planetside 2, league of legends, and tribes: ascend (lol). Their prices are incredibly high for near mandatory purchases like hats, guns, and skins.

This game doesn't charge too much in regards to gold prices because you need to have players making a decision to spend time in the game to get their item of choice or to buy it faster with real money. However, the runestone prices are currently way too high. A skin for 8$ could still, in my opinion, be knocked down to 6.50$ and be more readily available to purchase for more people. Perks even more so since they heavily impact how players can play the game. By reducing the pricing you allow players with say 10-20$ to spend on the game feel more willing to give you that money because they can now by 3 perks or skins instead of 2. This will entice players to want to spend more money later on as well if the game is kept up to date and balanced because the will have felt that they got their moneys worth in items during their previous purchase.

Lower the prices so players with less money can feel more comfortable spending their money on your game. Let us all reap the benefits of your increase in income. Don't depend on players with larger wallets to backpack the game.

OnlyLogic
6th Sep 2014, 18:05
Ok, in none of those games do you have to pay anything, Krazey. Tribes: Ascend is one of my top games in the fact that you don't need to spend money on anything. Most importantly, it's priced so that you have a fulfilling game experience all the way to level 40. That's why a lot of level 40s on here have too much to spend.

Nemesis777
6th Sep 2014, 20:25
In my opinion only the permanent perk prices are too high, and if their cost will be lowered there might be less topics like this one. You get one of them everyday, but "scavenger" (which cost less now -10%) is nothing in comparison to "dead eye", and same problem with some of the vampire perks. Without any boosts: win = 75 gold, loss = 50 gold, perk price = 2500 gold... And yes, some perks will give you advantage it's a known fact, I bought some of them for humans & vampires. People who completely disagreed have boosts, so their comments about how fast you can get gold in this game are just out of place - I will not discuss with them about high prices.

EDIT: I forgot to add why weapon prices are not an issue: you will get weapons/abilities from chests when you level up your characters.

KrazeyXII
7th Sep 2014, 15:25
Ok, in none of those games do you have to pay anything, Krazey. Tribes: Ascend is one of my top games in the fact that you don't need to spend money on anything. Most importantly, it's priced so that you have a fulfilling game experience all the way to level 40. That's why a lot of level 40s on here have too much to spend.

You missed the point of my post entirely. I'm not saying that you can't get by in this game without spending money at all[i/]. I'm saying that you want to have as many people playing your F2P game as possible spending money and if prices are too high then players with less money have a hard time justifying putting money into the game.

My argument stands above: 10$ in the current runestone system gets you 1 skin and [i]that's it. If they decide to go the route of perks then the same problem arises, 10$ gets you one perk and then you are stuck with unused runestones. What I'm trying to convey is that a player that can only afford to drop 10-20$ on the game needs to be able to get their moneys worth. If I was in the situation where I could only drop that much money on a game then I would, in the current pricing system, not put my money toward Nosgoth because I couldn't justify the cost of the runestones compared to what I can receive.

Having the prices lower (I recommend 20% because the 10% off deals are still too high) allow more players the security to spend money on the game which will benefit everyone. More money in the developers pocket means that everyone benefits from lower prices. Players, like myself, that are willing to drop more than average amounts of money on games we like will still do this if the game is fun for us. Opening up the market to players with less money to spend seems only logical (no pun intended). Let more players feel like the money they've spent is worthwhile and hopefully 1-2 months down the road they will put in another 10-20$ towards the game.

Lower prices so that players with less money feel confident that they are getting enough with their money. One skin or one perk for 10$ to a person with a 10-20$ budget per month is not something most would justify. Allow these types of players to get more out of their purchase and they will continue to spend that money on this game instead of elsewhere.


In my opinion only the permanent perk prices are too high, and if their cost will be lowered there might be less topics like this one. You get one of them everyday, but "scavenger" (which cost less now -10%) is nothing in comparison to "dead eye", and same problem with some of the vampire perks. Without any boosts: win = 75 gold, loss = 50 gold, perk price = 2500 gold... And yes, some perks will give you advantage it's a known fact, I bought some of them for humans & vampires. People who completely disagreed have boosts, so their comments about how fast you can get gold in this game are just out of place - I will not discuss with them about high prices.

EDIT: I forgot to add why weapon prices are not an issue: you will get weapons/abilities from chests when you level up your characters.

I disagree that only permanent perk prices are too high. Weapons and abilities are random from chest level ups and cannot be depended on. My friends got choking haze on their first reaver rank chest and I got a sweeping kick with one of the worst enchants I've seen to date. I have a large booster and more in my inventory when it runs out. My friends, however, do not. You need to win 37 games to get 2600 gold without any boosters at all. That is absolutely insane. Considering most games last somewhere around 15 minutes that means you need to play for 9 hours straight never losing to unlock a perk permanently.

I have to backpedal on my original statement because I've never done the math on gold prices. Without a booster players are basically grinding through a japanese mmo to fully unlock anything in this game. The grind is too steep and will, in my opinion, be very taxing for new players upon release. Creating a barrier like that for new players can potentially lose you a lot of those new players very quickly. F2P games need to have a model that allows all players to participate fairly easily. This games prices are too high overall and create a large barrier to entry for exploring any one class. Once the developers are done working on matchmaking I cannot recommend enough that they take a step back and look at the pricing system they have in place for the game.

Nemesis777
8th Sep 2014, 16:18
I would agree that 'prices are way too high', if there was many weapons and abilities to chose from (I would probably post about -25% or -30% price for permanent things then). I didn't write about items for real money in my previous post, because I'm not interested in buying skins or boosters - it was about gold items only. If this game becomes p2w it will be a fail - even wouldn't be worth the time for watching gameplays on twitch, and yt.

Aggggh
8th Sep 2014, 16:51
In my opinion only the permanent perk prices are too high, and if their cost will be lowered there might be less topics like this one. You get one of them everyday, but "scavenger" (which cost less now -10%) is nothing in comparison to "dead eye", and same problem with some of the vampire perks. Without any boosts: win = 75 gold, loss = 50 gold, perk price = 2500 gold... And yes, some perks will give you advantage it's a known fact, I bought some of them for humans & vampires. People who completely disagreed have boosts, so their comments about how fast you can get gold in this game are just out of place - I will not discuss with them about high prices.

EDIT: I forgot to add why weapon prices are not an issue: you will get weapons/abilities from chests when you level up your characters.
What does it matter what the perm perk prices are? The week rental prices on perks are so dirt cheap you may as well not bother perming it until you've perm piles of other items.

Xenonetix
8th Sep 2014, 17:10
The permanent perk prices have already been reduced from 3000 Gold to 2400 Gold as well by the way :)

As mentioned earlier in this thread, everything in the game is considered a side-grade in some way, and I still use many of the default abilities even at Level 40! The game is NOT pay-to-win :)

Alieth
23rd Sep 2014, 14:56
This is not a post of complain about it.
i'm not here to trow dumb comments in the air or insult anyone.

I just have found a solution to avoid spending too much money to this particular vanity item because let's be honest...:rolleyes:
spending like 7 euro for changing the way you eat is not worth it in my opinion :whistle:.

I can understand this price for the skins, i have all my classes skinned and i bought them when they only costed 1k runestones except for the prophet and the deceiver but i have a suggestion for the developers :naughty:.

Why dont you raise the max LVL of the single classes to 30 and gift this executions once you reach that like you did with the evolved skins ? Because once you reach lvl 25 all that exp is wasted if you keep using that class.

Please think about it, :group_hug:
and sorry for this offtopic comment

Please halves the cooldown of the Tyrant Jump (6-7 seconds) when he touch the ground on the apex limit of his jump u_u

i cant stop to say that, for me is the best compromise for make anyone happy, Developers wants the cooldown restored and players not, so...:D

Sanguise23
23rd Sep 2014, 16:25
I dont see the big deal paying a few bucks for a cosmetic like the executions, they have to make money somehow, however i thought they would be a little cheaper than the skins

Blackdeathteal
23rd Sep 2014, 17:05
I was always expecting gems tend to agree with Sanguise about the price though.

Nemesis777
23rd Sep 2014, 18:20
Actually there is a 40 lvl cap, all players at 20 lvl had unlocked all playable characters, so I think they will get 2 other upcoming vampires & humans for max level. Any character leveled to 25 (max) has evolved skin for free. Executions are just cosmetic items, so I don't think their price is that important for non collectors - majority of players, who don't post about "I must have everything in game!". :rolleyes:

If there would be an option to get alternative animations for free, it shouldn't be given just for level/stats, but only to players who don't leave (xz number) of matches - this could minimize intentional "rage" quit issue, after random disconnection from servers, and kick out the match bugs are fixed. Everyone's happy? :D

lucinvampire
24th Sep 2014, 12:19
I dont see the big deal paying a few bucks for a cosmetic like the executions, they have to make money somehow, however i thought they would be a little cheaper than the skins

I agree - I thought they were pretty expensive...I was expecting them to be around 800 runes or even a 1000 but that tops...

I have to admit I did buy them all but only because I happened to have some spare runes in my account...though if I knew there were some other contents coming out I probably wouldn't have.

Vampmaster
24th Sep 2014, 12:59
I'd maybe pay £2 each or £5 for a bundle of all 6 vampire execitions when the remaining clans are done. Not sure how that works out in runes.

I'm probably going to wait on these. The next content I'm likely to spend money on is an alternate skin for each of the new classes. I'm not sure after that, but I'm still hoping the devs will change their minds about variant evolved skins. I'd probably buy a couple of those.

Raziel220
24th Sep 2014, 13:02
In my opinion, they should gift the executions to all closed-beta-players once Open-beta starts! :D hahaha I'm kidding xD (or maybe I'm not?! o.O it would be cool! :D ...)

Ok, it's true that executions are expensive, but I'm sure that this must be some kind of "new cool stuff at high-price", and after some time, they will probably lower a little bit the prices, but after they releasing some other new cool-content.

Cristari
26th Sep 2014, 19:57
It's a vanity item - You don't need to buy it.

TendrilSavant
27th Sep 2014, 01:55
Do you not know basic economics Cristari? In order for the game to succeed, they need us to buy what they're selling.

One thing that irks me, is that Square just seems to be experimenting with prices to see how high were willing to pay.

First they tried selling Immortal Bundles at an audacious price of $149.99 (for non-beta players), they learned and adjusted accordingly. Now they are testing sale prices; skins were 10% off last update, now they are trying 20%; they'll probably try 25% if that doesn't work. The high prices of executions is just one more bad pricing decision in my book.

Why not put out a survey where your potential customers could tell you how much they value certain cosmetic items?

Nemesis777
27th Sep 2014, 03:42
Why they didn't give free Elder Blood packs for all beta testers? :)

The Elder Bloodpack content for testers is this:
- change character level cap from 25 to 30 in the next update, so high level players will have something to do, before animations and other features are created;
- add evolved executions for characters at 30 lvl to unlock, just like evolved skins are given at 25 lvl;
- the new executions for evolved vampires will be free, so buyable executions should stay in cash shop, same as alternative skins for blue dollars;
- evolved executions should be with clan specific traits, such as tongue attack for younger Reaver bloodsucker proposed here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=17071) - that execution would be lore friendly, fledgling Dumahim used tongue in combat and feeding in Soul Reaver.
Thoughts? :)

Archsaint
25th Oct 2014, 12:15
I really enjoy this game and want to support it. I bought the Warlord bundle from the start, but I currently don’t see myself buying anything more. Runestones are really overpriced. For 5 USD, you get 1000 RS. A skin costs on average 1600 RS. That means I have to spend 10 USD just to get one skin. I don’t believe I’m out of line to say that that’s ridiculous.

I thought the idea was to price things low, so that lots of people will spend a little money thus making more in the long run, instead of pricing things high so only a few people will buy things. If a skin was 2-3 USD, you would sell lots more, easily. You do want us to buy lots of skins, right? And other things for that matter?

Again, it’s a great game with lots of potential and I really enjoy playing. I want to support it more, but simply cannot justify the current prices and humbly request that they be adjusted. Surely this has been brought up before, but I haven't noticed a recent thread.

RoflBalast
25th Oct 2014, 14:10
"Ok" price for skins imo compared to other f2p games. Maybe a bit too much(1000) for recharging 1 weapon.

Archsaint
1st Nov 2014, 19:34
Thanks for the discount on the Founders Packs, upgraded. I do appreciate that. :) For skins and everything else, I’m just going to wait for sales. I would love to hear from someone that controls the prices as to why you get so little gems for real money.

Danatiel
5th Nov 2014, 11:00
I thought that the prices of the Runestones are a little too high as well given the fact that skins and executions cost what they cost at the moment. I do not care about the perks and items, because you can still buy them with gold.

Also one important thing was brought up here. There are some (maybe a lot of) people who gathered thousands of gold and there is nothing more to spend it on. I understand that the devs do not want to give away everything for gold, but I wouldn't think that for instance a 100 or (more ratio) of gold to 1 runestone would be necessarily awful. You would need 160 000 gold for one skin. I dont think that it is unreasonable. But all in all there should be something cool and expensive available for those who have tons of useless gold.

Sanguise23
5th Nov 2014, 13:45
I thought that the prices of the Runestones are a little too high as well given the fact that skins and executions cost what they cost at the moment. I do not care about the perks and items, because you can still buy them with gold.

Also one important thing was brought up here. There are some (maybe a lot of) people who gathered thousands of gold and there is nothing more to spend it on. I understand that the devs do not want to give away everything for gold, but I wouldn't think that for instance a 100 or (more ratio) of gold to 1 runestone would be necessarily awful. You would need 160 000 gold for one skin. I dont think that it is unreasonable. But all in all there should be something cool and expensive available for those who have tons of useless gold.
if they do this there would be even less ppl buying runestones which is the only constant income for this game

Blastin_Foolz
5th Nov 2014, 13:50
A month ago....

I did the math and you clearly don't understand what I'm talking about.

The value of the pack isn't what I'm conflicted about, it's how badly the unique Immortal pack has been cheapened and therefore making it less exclusive and more about making money via price shifting than supporting the game in a bigger way and being rewarded for it. I also realize the date of your post, but I didn't see it until now.

Danatiel
6th Nov 2014, 07:53
if they do this there would be even less ppl buying runestones which is the only constant income for this game

And you know that.... how exactly? In any case I disagree. System like that is not something new. The good example of it being successful is Neverwinter. But overall I do not care that much about that to be honest. I have bought the Immortal pack and I will probably still throw some money to get skins/executions. It was just an idea of a gold sink. And I would still strongly suggest making some sort of a gold sink.

Sanguise23
6th Nov 2014, 14:31
And you know that.... how exactly? In any case I disagree. System like that is not something new. The good example of it being successful is Neverwinter. But overall I do not care that much about that to be honest. I have bought the Immortal pack and I will probably still throw some money to get skins/executions. It was just an idea of a gold sink. And I would still strongly suggest making some sort of a gold sink.

im not sure what there is to disagree with, the games only real income is ppl buying runes and founders packs, if you can get runes or skins or boosters with gold ppl will buy less runestones. I agree there should be a gold sink

-Udnya
6th Nov 2014, 15:49
The cost for passives/items is FAR too high. I understand this game will be free to play, and you must create an incentive for people to purchase runestones. Sometimes less is more and in this case its very true. The amount of time it takes for someone to grind points for a single permanent passive is borderline insanity. People are severely turned off if they feel pressured or bullied into spending real money. Don't confuse creating incentive to spend cash with your own seeking to get a little bit more out of the customer. Seek to get a little less and they will feel they get more than their money's worth and will buy upwards of 300% more than if prices made them feel OBLIGATED to pay to experiment with classes/items/passives. One of the common misconceptions developers have is to make purchases that are in the same ballpark for things that should be far apart in price.

First; classes should be MORE expensive and not unlocked as you play just every few level increments. Unlocking a brand new Rebel or Vampire should feel like a much larger achievement and progression unlock than a marginal/situational perk. Perks as they stand right now are about triple what they should cost. Second, items should be reduced in price by about 33%. The unlock token thing is a little awkward and impedes the flow of the incentive to purchase runestones. Your skin prices are more than fair and I applaud you for this, as the art in this game is fantastic and please relay that sentiment to your art department.

Lastly, as the game expands you may integrate more and more perks. Perks in my opinion are the only thing that stands out as far too expensive. I have seen great games such as Hawken fail to get off the ground because the items were too expensive and grindy plain and simple. Striking the perfect balance, the goldilocks zone isn't easy but I think a slight reduction in price of items and perks is in order. Trust me when I say that being able to purchase one or two extra items when you spend 20 bucks, and not being JUST SHY of buying another item feels very satisfying. While if the consumer feels squeezed or they witness the numbers have been engineered so they fall just short of buying that next thing on their list they feel the deal is dishonest and repeat purchases are FAR LESS likely.

Looking out for both Developer and Customer,
Udnya

Danatiel
6th Nov 2014, 20:23
Yeah, after putting some more thought into it I guess it wouldn't be beneficial for everyone (gold -> runestones exchange).

Kabalite
9th Nov 2014, 15:25
I just wanted to say that I think it's awesome you guys are directly solving problems and interacting with the community. It really makes me smile :).

-Shiro-
25th Nov 2014, 22:41
I just wonder if there are discounts planned on runestones. There are a lot of discounted packs including stones during Steam sales, but as I purchased a LOK collection pack, and it's impossible to enjoy another pack's benefits... Are discounted stones a possibility for the players already supporting the game (during the other sales, of course) ?

Thank you !

Malkev
26th Nov 2014, 03:15
Or a general discount in all prices. (What is the same in the end road)

-Shiro-
3rd Dec 2014, 15:19
Hello again,

A bit disappointed. No answers from the crew/staff, while I talked about it in-game and a lot of people agreed on this. I saw a post about "too expensive in-game currency" or something like that here, but no answer on this specific question.

It's a shame that an alpha or beta closed game use the LOL (or similar in popularity) standards for the in-game currency, skins prices, etc...

Just let me know ; )

Thank you.

13oundary
4th Dec 2014, 17:17
If I'm honest... right now there are much less people to draw an income off of, thus the prices are higher at the moment... if the game gets more popular then they might be able to afford to drop prices, what they can afford being the key market controller... This is the highest fidelity f2p game that I have ever played... and that has to come with drawbacks on the costs of development (read "come with higher costs of development").

--Ram--
4th Dec 2014, 20:44
If I'm honest... right now there are much less people to draw an income off of, thus the prices are higher at the moment... if the game gets more popular then they might be able to afford to drop prices, what they can afford being the key market controller... This is the highest fidelity f2p game that I have ever played... and that has to come with drawbacks on the costs of development (read "come with higher costs of development").

They can however afford to sell these products for whatever price they choose, since they are not physical and cost basically nothing to sell once the skin/animation/whatever has been created. Given the current price scheme many players will simply never purchase any skins or animations. If they lowered prices to a point where most players will buy the odd skin or execution every once in a while they may well make more money.

Exactly where the optimal price lies is for Square to work out, and testing the waters is probably more important to them right now than actually selling much (other than supporter packs), since the player base is currently tiny. I would also expect that alpha and closed beta players would be willing to fork out a bit more than people just trying the game down the track, since many are dedicated/passionate about the game. I wouldn't put it past Square to try to milk this a bit.

13oundary
5th Dec 2014, 16:25
They can however afford to sell these products for whatever price they choose, since they are not physical and cost basically nothing to sell once the skin/animation/whatever has been created.

I get the feeling that you don't really know what these skins and packs have to try to pay for... how long do you think it takes to create a single model at this fidelity? then reskin it making sure that it maintains the same topology weights during animation... then bug fixing anything if it spazzes out during particular actions or movements. You are right... after the thing is made it only costs the server overheads of hosting your account details and processing transactions... and paying anything that banks charge for such small amounts of money transactions (I know many shops in my country don't accept card payments under a certain value to avoid these charges).

But what about the costs leading up to these skins? Then what about all of the free stuff that you've been handed for nothing? All of those hours of Coders, Modellers, Animators, Designers, Project Managers, PR Team, Customer Service team, Technical Support team and Server Maintanence team (sorry if I missed anyone :P) who all have a salary to be paid to make even considering creating this game viable?

They really can't afford to sell the products at 'whatever price' because they have massive overheads to cover. Massive overheads.


I wouldn't put it past Square to try to milk this a bit.

I don't think I'll be able to sway you on whether or not they're milking it... but I hope the gravity of what that little skin has to pay for is more real to you now.


I would also expect that alpha and closed beta players would be willing to fork out a bit more than people just trying the game down the track

I love the word 'willing' here. It's correct.

If you're not willing to pay some cash to help keep the development cycle going and get a cool animation or skin for your contribution... don't do it. Simples.

I don't think anyone playing a game that costs nothing has the right to complain about price. Particularly not about the price of vanity items.

Sanguise23
5th Dec 2014, 17:30
I get the feeling that you don't really know what these skins and packs have to try to pay for... how long do you think it takes to create a single model at this fidelity? then reskin it making sure that it maintains the same topology weights during animation... then bug fixing anything if it spazzes out during particular actions or movements. You are right... after the thing is made it only costs the server overheads of hosting your account details and processing transactions... and paying anything that banks charge for such small amounts of money transactions (I know many shops in my country don't accept card payments under a certain value to avoid these charges).

But what about the costs leading up to these skins? Then what about all of the free stuff that you've been handed for nothing? All of those hours of Coders, Modellers, Animators, Designers, Project Managers, PR Team, Customer Service team, Technical Support team and Server Maintanence team (sorry if I missed anyone :P) who all have a salary to be paid to make even considering creating this game viable?

They really can't afford to sell the products at 'whatever price' because they have massive overheads to cover. Massive overheads.



I don't think I'll be able to sway you on whether or not they're milking it... but I hope the gravity of what that little skin has to pay for is more real to you now.



I love the word 'willing' here. It's correct.

If you're not willing to pay some cash to help keep the development cycle going and get a cool animation or skin for your contribution... don't do it. Simples.

I don't think anyone playing a game that costs nothing has the right to complain about price. Particularly not about the price of vanity items.

well said

Blastin_Foolz
5th Dec 2014, 18:09
Many of those 6300 point heroes are acknowledged as being more powerful than others, yet cost the same as any other hero when bought with real money. That's not cool.

Lolwut.

You lost all credibility in your post at that point. Don't get me wrong, I read the whole thing, but wow you have no idea what you're talking about. I got to Diamond 5 with Ryze and Annie, the only reason I couldn't get higher is I believe my bad ping played a key role and I was just flat out uninterested in getting any higher than that. I honestly just wanted to prove to myself that I could do it.

The payment system is fine with this game, the only thing I dislike about it, is the skins need to feel more unique via other things other than just the texture of the skin itself. I have ideas on how to do that, but even if they didn't go in that direction, I'll still buy skins and other things that I want. This game is pretty good at not being a complete cash grab and using a game bound currency sucks people into the world of micro-transactions.

You don't have to buy anything, it's free-to-play for a reason and they're not here working for free; it's just good business.

--Ram--
5th Dec 2014, 18:55
I get the feeling that you don't really know what these skins and packs have to try to pay for... how long do you think it takes to create a single model at this fidelity? then reskin it making sure that it maintains the same topology weights during animation... then bug fixing anything if it spazzes out during particular actions or movements. You are right... after the thing is made it only costs the server overheads of hosting your account details and processing transactions... and paying anything that banks charge for such small amounts of money transactions (I know many shops in my country don't accept card payments under a certain value to avoid these charges).

But what about the costs leading up to these skins? Then what about all of the free stuff that you've been handed for nothing? All of those hours of Coders, Modellers, Animators, Designers, Project Managers, PR Team, Customer Service team, Technical Support team and Server Maintanence team (sorry if I missed anyone :P) who all have a salary to be paid to make even considering creating this game viable?

They really can't afford to sell the products at 'whatever price' because they have massive overheads to cover. Massive overheads.



I don't think I'll be able to sway you on whether or not they're milking it... but I hope the gravity of what that little skin has to pay for is more real to you now.



I love the word 'willing' here. It's correct.

If you're not willing to pay some cash to help keep the development cycle going and get a cool animation or skin for your contribution... don't do it. Simples.

I don't think anyone playing a game that costs nothing has the right to complain about price. Particularly not about the price of vanity items.

Fair points and re-reading my post my tone was a bit off, I wasn't intending to complain or belittle the work that goes into this game. "Whatever price" may have been a poor choice of words but I figured people would understand that I mean a price within the range that allows the business model to succeed, not literally any price.

I said "after the stuff is created" because I realize there will be sunk costs to recover, I didn't discuss the numbers because as you said I don't know what they are. I'm sure they are high as you say, however profits can then be made for years after that for minimal ongoing cost. How long it takes to recover the initial investment I do not claim to know.

My point was simply that a lower price may see additional benefits for all parties, since a greater proportion of players may be prepared to contribute, leading to a greater profit and more successful business. E.g. lowering say the price of executions a little may mean many more people grab one. I rarely see people with them currently.

Abacrius
5th Dec 2014, 19:50
I don't set the prices, and am leaving this to Square to read and decide on, but permit me a counter-example.

League of Legends standard skin price is 975 Riot Points (roughly $7). Riot Points are available in 650, 1380, 2800, 5000, etc. bundles.

They seem to do alright with this system. Do you feel it's equally unfair what they're doing, but they simply get away with it because of how popular the game is? Did it become popular in spite of the monetization model?

To be fair for $25 I can get several champions and skins in League of Legends, which is run by someone without a parent company (Riot Games)

Nosgoth, by comparison, I'd be lucky to get two or three skins (And that's just skins, not even counting executions and abilities/weapons) for that cost. Square Enix is an absolute behemoth of a company, and have multiple projects going simultaneously that can cover one another's losses. Riot doesn't have that luxury, and still charges less.

So, yeah, I can kinda see why Riot Points feel a little more cost-effective than Nosgoth's Runestones or Warframe's (blech) Platinum.

Psyonix_Eric
5th Dec 2014, 20:02
To be fair for $25 I can get several champions and skins in League of Legends, which is run by someone without a parent company (Riot Games)

Nosgoth, by comparison, I'd be lucky to get two or three skins (And that's just skins, not even counting executions and abilities/weapons) for that cost. Square Enix is an absolute behemoth of a company, and have multiple projects going simultaneously that can cover one another's losses. Riot doesn't have that luxury, and still charges less.

So, yeah, I can kinda see why Riot Points feel a little more cost-effective than Nosgoth's Runestones or Warframe's (blech) Platinum.

I don't think Riot is exactly a small company anymore. ;) http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-01-20-league-of-legends-2013-revenue-topped-USD600m-report

Abilities and weapons can be purchased with in-game gold, so I wouldn't consider that a fair point since you wouldn't need to spend a penny on them.

But, I'l reiterate Corey's point - Square controls this, so it's up to them to read and decide. I just wanted to counter-point.

Rago600
7th Dec 2014, 10:29
Talking about Counter Points, making one skin = no additional costs ! = Selling it = Profit !

Just saying this.Dont get me wrong i Love nosgoth
I also bought a Skin and 3 Founder Packs.(The bigger ones).I support nosgoth because i really enjoy it.

But f2p stay´s what it is.Pure Capitalism ;)

FireWorks_
7th Dec 2014, 14:24
Talking about Counter Points, making one skin = no additional costs ! = Selling it = Profit !

Just saying this.Dont get me wrong i Love nosgoth
I also bought a Skin and 3 Founder Packs.(The bigger ones).I support nosgoth because i really enjoy it.

But f2p stay´s what it is.Pure Capitalism ;)

You forget the money that it costs to make skins. It is not like they create themselves and come for free. It takes artist, coders and testers to have them the way we see the end product, all of them dont work for love'n'air.




I just wanted to jump in and say that I feel a bit wonky about skin give-aways that we current players cant participate. I bought an immortal and a lower pack. I played the game for over 600h, filed a fair share of bug reports (even did a vid) and gave feedback (criticism and some praise too) on the issues I found cause I saw me as a tester. There are people here that did more and better but I think we all deserved to at least also get the free skins that other gets for contributing nothing.

Enlightened_Fool
8th Dec 2014, 14:39
Other than skins and boosters one can buy everything else with gold earned via playing. Skins are just cosmetic. Even if you load up 2k runes, spend 1600 on a skin, you can still get a booster or whatever. Now though, it would be nice to buy skins with an insane amount of gold.
But I don't really see what the problem is for a price on an unnecessary cosmetic item the devs wanna sell.
Don't like it, don't buy it.

Sanguise23
8th Dec 2014, 15:23
You forget the money that it costs to make skins. It is not like they create themselves and come for free. It takes artist, coders and testers to have them the way we see the end product, all of them dont work for love'n'air.




I just wanted to jump in and say that I feel a bit wonky about skin give-aways that we current players cant participate. I bought an immortal and a lower pack. I played the game for over 600h, filed a fair share of bug reports (even did a vid) and gave feedback (criticism and some praise too) on the issues I found cause I saw me as a tester. There are people here that did more and better but I think we all deserved to at least also get the free skins that other gets for contributing nothing.

well said all around, tired of everyone wanting everything for free, you are already getting a great game.
I am also disappointed by not being able to get these free skins

j0shm4n
14th Dec 2014, 13:11
I agree with you guys , i've joined the game recently and was thinking of buying a skin for like 2 days but the pricing just didnt felt fair . Maybe what the game needs is custumization like in dota 2 , where you can change the appearance of multiple parts and mix and match .

j0shm4n
14th Dec 2014, 13:16
This is actually a really good idea . Surveys are a great way to get valuable information and feedback about the game . Put a reward for doing it and and .. boom.. now everyone is doing it :)

Saikocat
16th Dec 2014, 14:56
Hi everyone,

Just to address discussions around pricing points, I'll certainly share your feedback here, so thanks for posting it!
It can be a delicate balance, and some prices have been tweaked along the way, but we're always open to hearing feedback.

This point has already been made by others, but it can be easy to downplay the value of something when it is digital only and doesn't involve shelf-space, but it's important not to apply value to something from that POV only, especially with a live game. Running a live game is expensive, and there are a lot of costs and people involved in many steps along the way.
We do provide the game for free, and anything you'd want to get gameplay wise can be unlocked for free as well (with Gold you earn, or levels you gain, when it comes to classes), and this does factor in to that balance too, and we watch all of it closely.


I just wanted to jump in and say that I feel a bit wonky about skin give-aways that we current players cant participate.

That's something we'll be considering for the future, when we're able to grant specific items with codes (right now that isn't possible). Those skins came along with the access that was granted with the code, but rewards for existing players are something we should be able to do more with in the future (something I'd personally love to do).
One thing aside from that will be the bonuses we're giving out for helping us test the matchmaking, Corey shared a bit of detail on that and we'll get into it more soon.

FireWorks_
16th Dec 2014, 16:13
Hi everyone,

Just to address discussions around pricing points, I'll certainly share your feedback here, so thanks for posting it!
It can be a delicate balance, and some prices have been tweaked along the way, but we're always open to hearing feedback.

This point has already been made by others, but it can be easy to downplay the value of something when it is digital only and doesn't involve shelf-space, but it's important not to apply value to something from that POV only, especially with a live game. Running a live game is expensive, and there are a lot of costs and people involved in many steps along the way.
We do provide the game for free, and anything you'd want to get gameplay wise can be unlocked for free as well (with Gold you earn, or levels you gain, when it comes to classes), and this does factor in to that balance too, and we watch all of it closely.



That's something we'll be considering for the future, when we're able to grant specific items with codes (right now that isn't possible). Those skins came along with the access that was granted with the code, but rewards for existing players are something we should be able to do more with in the future (something I'd personally love to do).
One thing aside from that will be the bonuses we're giving out for helping us test the matchmaking, Corey shared a bit of detail on that and we'll get into it more soon.

Thanks for looking into this again. Gotta say I was soothed after Corey's announcement, since I posted this here earlier. Good job for still taking your time to revisit the thread and posting a nice message!:thumb:

Ysanoire
18th Dec 2014, 18:02
It's good to know this feedback is getting passed on.

I also think the prices are too high, and I've been holding off buying runestones for skins for this reason.

I mean, I would be quite happy to pay for this game what I normally pay for any other fresh full price release, which to me is about EUR 30-40. But if I do, I'd kinda expect to get a large bag of goodies in the game, which currently is not the case. EUR 30 gets you 9200 RS, which is 5 skins. That's really not a lot. A single skin effectively costs EUR 7.30.

-Shiro-
19th Dec 2014, 09:28
I agree. I'm invested into the game and I'd like to change of appearance sometimes, but I'm not going to spend more than 7euros pour a skin. Never.

Little true story : some of my friends, that I invited to play with founder codes, installed the game, did go to the store, saw the prices and said "ok...", then uninstalled the game. They claimed that this way of pricing in-game things (in a ftp) is "considering people as no-life idiots".

I'm happy with the concept to get an awesome game for free (despite the fact that I bought packs), but on the other hand, making involved players pay such amounts of money is indeed strange.

Anyway, good job to the producers and all the staff, it should be difficult to get the right budget when you're making a (good) ftp game.

Persiphas
19th Dec 2014, 10:08
I honestly don't know why people complain about the pricing in this game. By the time you reach level 40 you will have unlocked nearly all skills you want (definitely those for your favourite characters). If you compare it to levelling up in mmorpgs you'll also get more skills the higher you level up (but of course not everybody has played mmorpgs and Nosgoth is not one of them).
But if you compare it to LoL like it was done in this thread before the complaints make even less sense... I don't think it takes more playtime in Nosgoth to unlock a skill than it takes in LoL (and other mobas) to unlock a champion. Actually you can make 1 skill per evening if you win most matches (without booster).
So boosters are definitely not a must-have in this game. How should people earn money with it? Of course with the skins. If you take into consideration how well-made the skins in Nosgoth are the price is ok (the skins in LoL are most of the time much less complex graphic-wise, I could probably make them myself XD And those that are a little more complex... have you for example checked the price for a pulsefire ezreal skin?). The only point I can understand is that maybe executions should be a little cheaper. Why? Skins don't change anything (maybe the hammerhead sentinel is a little more camouflaged on certain maps) but the executions make you stand upright a longer time than the standard executions (so you can not drink behind an obstacle as good as with normal executions and people are much more likely to notice you because you fill a bigger space in their optical field) which is a pro style contra performance thing (correct me if I'm wrong but this is why I do not buy executions)...

(Btw how will people be rewarded that already invited all their friends to Nosgoth? I can't invite them again to get the special skins XD The amount of smurf accounts will be so high when the referral system goes live)

TheVagabond
5th Feb 2015, 09:36
Reader,

As a preface, I wan't to say that I know you can get almost everything in the game by simply playing and earning gold. I'm no penny pincher; I spend quite a lot of money on games, but I like to get my money's worth. I enjoy backing developers to ensure they recieve the support to continue developing awesome titles.

With that said, how are these prices ethical? How are they logical; I would hazard to guess that a lower price would entice more people to purchase, and thus create a larger profit.

Some examples of the costs of items:

Weapons/Specials/Primaries/Secondaries: Five dollars +/- ~2
A Character Skin: Five dollars.
A Character Class: A little over thirteen dollars.
Boosters: Range from one to five dollars.
Bundles: Around forty dollars, some are a little less.

At current prices, if you wanted to just buy everything in game, the amount you would be paying would ecplise the cost of a lot games with their dlc. Some are a bit more pricey, but what you get in terms of content. . .

Any Modern Bethesda Game, Crusader Kings, Omerta - City of Gangsters, Fallen Enchantress - Legendary Heroes, Civilization V, Any Modern Total War Game, Sleeping Dogs, and Company of Heroes 2.

Those being games I invested in dlc for, without regret because of the sheer volume of content per penny. Not to mention that if you are patient you can easily get it for dirt cheap on a 25%-75% off sale.

I just don't understand the lure that causes people to spend this amount of money. I don't understand how the people who decide the prices can feel good about it.

Wouldn't it be a bit more reasonable to have the base cost of gems be 1000 / dollar. With increasing amounts of gems based on larger purchases?

At current runestone costs that would make items cost:

Equipment tab: Between $1.80 and $2.00
Perk tab: $0.75
Skin tab: Between $1.28 and $2.40
Booster tab: Between $0.20 and $1.00
Class tab: $3.00
Bundles tab: $4.80 and $10.00
Executions tab: $0.80

While those prices are incredibly steep for the content you are purchasing, it is much more reasonable (considering there was no base game purchase) and something I, myself, would feel okay about buying. I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it. Where as right now, it is a "No way, no how"

The game is really good, don't get me wrong. I like that it isn't pay to win; I like that I can earn (almost) everything by simply playing (albiet very slowly).

Gameplay is solid, A+.

Cheers,
Michael a.k.a Vagabond

Vampmaster
5th Feb 2015, 11:06
The boosters are better value for money than just buying weapons/abilities with runestones. If you play a lot, the additional gold works out to several weapons instead of just one. Also, remember they stack with those of teammates, so that can work out as 175 gold for just a loss.

50 + 100% + 3 * (25%) = 175

Or maybe it's even:
50 * 2 * (1.25^3) = 195.3125

And you get two of three times that for a win or high scores, so you could be unlocking a new item every hour or two.

Ysanoire
5th Feb 2015, 12:00
I agree. The transactions in this game are not micro at all. The only thing so far that I thought was reasonably priced were the event banners. They were 400 RS, so you could get 2 for EUR 3.65.

The rest is silly.

Getting just one skin for each class in the game costs EUR 47.45. That's more than I pay for AAA games.

Just... no.

Khalith
5th Feb 2015, 15:53
The decision on pricing is sadly not up to Psyonix, that's solely the decision of Square Enix and while we have brought concerns about pricing up in the past, they've remained pretty firm about keeping them as is since the beginning.

Duffie7
5th Feb 2015, 16:06
I'd love to support this game more. The founders pack, I felt, was fairly priced. But the item and class unlocks are ridiculous.

I've actively had to encourage friends to try the game for a week to show them it's not pay to win. For how easy it is to acquire items (and ones with bonuses), the price for a base unlock is ridiculous and a complete trap. Same could be said about the classes.

I'd love to purchase some skins as well, but the evolved skins look so much better and can be unlocked for free (which is awesome of the devs).

But the game lacks a fun, but cheap micro transaction. Like I'd totally buy a melee animation to use that machete. I'd buy an item to reroll a weapon stat. I'd buy an elemental shockwave effect for my tyrants jump. I'd buy individual banners. I'd buy a taunts for my characters.

ApollosBow
6th Feb 2015, 20:18
Gotta make that moola...hope after its PC run (hopefully that wont end anytime soon) they consider porting to consoles and make bigger bucks, all in the name of Kain!!

On a serious note I feel execution are the most overpriced, and they put you at a disadvantage feeding most of the time, seriously 1600 runes is the same price for a new skin....should be a clean 1000 runes or sale price (800) permanently...Also buying perks and equipment should be cheaper with Runes than currently (gold prices are fare), encouraging people to actually top up on runes, there's only uneven top ups so get them to do it once and they'll prob do it again to hit the price of something else.

Ygdrasel
6th Feb 2015, 20:26
People do buy these things though. As long as that continues, there is less incentive to alter the prices. Sadly.

Cristari
8th Feb 2015, 01:00
Can the store please adjust the cost of the packs and remove items that we already own from each of the packs.

I would love to pick up some of the packs in the store unfortunately I have most of the items in them already. I would like to see the cost of the packs reduce depending upon how many of the items I own. i.e. The Tyrant pack comes with: Clan Turalim Banner, Marathon, Charge, Jump, Shockwave, Throw, Enrage and 4 skins.
If I have 1 of those skins and all but 1 of the skills I would like to buy that pack up for less than the 9.4k Runes (£24.74) that it costs in the store atm. IMHO I think the Pack pricing is a little heavy anyway.

I would also like to see each of the Clan Banners sold separately from these packs in the store for say 1k Runes? I don't think they deserve a higher price than that to be honest.

I would also like to see a Trade put in for those that purchase the classes unlocks before the class unlock is rewarded to them at the appropriate level. If it is possible to trade the unused Class unlocks for Gold or Runes (obviously at a slightly reduced rate) or maybe introduce a player market where we can sell these on to other players?

ApollosBow
8th Feb 2015, 04:18
Id buy one of the clan banners, might pay up to 800 Runes since its kinda special....but not paying the price of the packs to get it when I can just pick and mix what content I like the most.

-Konf-
8th Feb 2015, 07:24
I agree with the original post. To be honest I find it hard to understand who these packs are even marketed for. Players that have been around would have unlocked almost everything. And new players could be struggling to make an informed decision on which class they want to invest in and probably spend gold testing some of the abilities to make a decision anyway, which reduces the value of their purchase.

For those who have unlocked all the abilities already the only appealing content in those packs are banners. Some would have a skin and/or execution for their favourite classes and don't want to pay extra runes for the skins they don't want/like in the first place. The banners, however, would be the most popular items in store if they were sold separately.

I would also like to see each of the Clan Banners sold separately from these packs in the store for say 1k Runes? I don't think they deserve a higher price than that to be honest.
Yes please! Every since the packs were announced a lot of players were asking for that. 1,000 rune stones for 1 would be ridiculously expensive though. I think a standard 400 is a decent price, considering that people will be buying a few.

Cristari
8th Feb 2015, 14:03
Yes please! Every since the packs were announced a lot of players were asking for that. 1,000 rune stones for 1 would be ridiculously expensive though. I think a standard 400 is a decent price, considering that people will be buying a few.

The cheaper the better for us yes but as a max price I would never pay more then £2.99 for a Banner it's only there for appeal anyway not really necessary.

Ygdrasel
8th Feb 2015, 16:42
Pricing in general seems iffy. It's like five bucks for a skin or something. Those banners should definitely be separate though.

Truhls
2nd Mar 2015, 01:20
So here's the deal. I like nosgoth. I enjoy playing it. I usually support games i enjoy, take League of legends for example. Ive spent over 600 dollars on that game. However, the macrotransactions that nosgoth uses makes it so i will NEVER support this game no matter how much i like it. I'm not going to spend 20 bucks to unlock a single class. I'm actually pretty ok with around 10 dollars per class. But because of the 3k price tag on anything not on sale, and even when something IS on sale its still over 2100 gems, you cannot buy a single class for anything less than 20 bucks. I dont care that you can unlock them in game. I'd rather support the game and unlock them immediately. But i have all but 2 unlocked, already. Leveling from 20-25 is so slow id rather just pay to unlock them to enjoy the game more. But im not willing to spend 40 bucks to unlock only 2 classes. It's rather ridiculous.

CommunistPrime
2nd Mar 2015, 01:25
Sucks for you. Just buy some skins or something and play the game. You'll get those classes passively...it's not even a huge deal, haha.

Archsaint
2nd Mar 2015, 01:45
Prices have been atrocious since the beginning, but… I’ve only heard people (myself included) complain about the cost for skins and executions. The fact is they would sell boat loads more if it was only 2-3 USD, instead having to drop $10 for 1 skin. Take the different prices for the new Vanguard shields. I inquired why the prices were different on their main forum and didn’t get a response. It’s just greed. Unfortunately I don’t think whoever sets the prices looks at these forums, which means the player’s voices probably aren’t heard. :( Or they could care less, either way.

But everything else is easily attainable just by playing. Maybe buy a booster to help you level faster, eh?
You spent over $600 on LoL? Wow… o_O

Ygdrasel
2nd Mar 2015, 06:27
Sucks for you. Just buy some skins or something and play the game. You'll get those classes passively...it's not even a huge deal, haha.

> OP doesn't want to pay ridiculous prices

> "JUST DROP FIVE DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE SKIN AND BE HAPPY!"

Um... :scratch:


I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this game ultimately crashed and burned largely on the altar of its asinine prices.

Equanimityjohn
2nd Mar 2015, 07:21
See what you should do is buy a booster, it supports the game and it's super useful. :)

-Konf-
2nd Mar 2015, 09:11
Hmm, maybe that's just me, but leveling and progression seem natural and easy enough. Apart from that, I never wanted to spend money on something that is free to unlock and doesn't take too much time to do so. And no, I'm not stingy - I did support the game by buying Vampire founder pack before it was taken out of the store so that I could get a bunch of skins down the road - and I did so gladly because I love the game.

But yeah, if you don't find unlocking classes a worthy purchase (which it's not, just level and get it) - then you got some sweet skins and boosters. Better value for money right there.

AdmiralPPR
2nd Mar 2015, 10:01
I think it's rather difficult for a publisher to set the prices right. If we take your example: If you offer a skin for 2-3 $ instead of 10 $ then you would have to have 3-5 times the customers to pay for them in order to get the same revenue, BUT there would also be 3-5 times more people using the skins ingame, making them less unique.
So it's hard to strike a balance with those micro transcations...

Personally (being old and remembering paying for games just once) I would prefer affordable packs - paying the same for a class pack as for a full-price game seems a bit off. ^^

Cristari
2nd Mar 2015, 10:42
Whilst the OP is so blinded by the prices (and why wouldn't he be they are expensive) he is completely missing the point that you font need to buy the stuff in the store to enjoy the game class unlocks are given to you free every 5 lvls. If he had taken at least 5 mins to look at and play the game he would have understood this however with 1 post and the Steam user name of Thruls having a steam level of 0 I hardly think he has touched the game if of course I have the correct person.

This thread is a rage post and should really be ignored however SE should be aware that their pricing policy is very very poor.

MasterShuriko
2nd Mar 2015, 12:36
Hmm, maybe that's just me, but leveling and progression seem natural and easy enough. Apart from that, I never wanted to spend money on something that is free to unlock and doesn't take too much time to do so. And no, I'm not stingy - I did support the game by buying Vampire founder pack before it was taken out of the store so that I could get a bunch of skins down the road - and I did so gladly because I love the game.

But yeah, if you don't find unlocking classes a worthy purchase (which it's not, just level and get it) - then you got some sweet skins and boosters. Better value for money right there.

Doesnt matter how easy and natural you make a game when there will always be people demanding EASIER stuff served on a silver platter along with Bonus achievements and discounts.

Heck some players even want to pay money to be done with a game faster for some reason and skip out of Gameplay.

I have one word for players complaining about stuff these days: BRATS.

lastnewbie
2nd Mar 2015, 13:49
Buy perks or Boosters.
Play and unlock the classes, don't be lazy.

Ysanoire
2nd Mar 2015, 16:23
Yes, prices of everythign are excessive.

I dont' see how getting classes through xp is a problem though. Come on, if you enjoy the game even in the slightest you'll get to lvl 30 in no time.

MasterFurbz
2nd Mar 2015, 16:27
So here's the deal. I like nosgoth. I enjoy playing it. I usually support games i enjoy, take League of legends for example. Ive spent over 600 dollars on that game. However, the macrotransactions that nosgoth uses makes it so i will NEVER support this game no matter how much i like it. I'm not going to spend 20 bucks to unlock a single class. I'm actually pretty ok with around 10 dollars per class. But because of the 3k price tag on anything not on sale, and even when something IS on sale its still over 2100 gems, you cannot buy a single class for anything less than 20 bucks. I dont care that you can unlock them in game. I'd rather support the game and unlock them immediately. But i have all but 2 unlocked, already. Leveling from 20-25 is so slow id rather just pay to unlock them to enjoy the game more. But im not willing to spend 40 bucks to unlock only 2 classes. It's rather ridiculous.

Everyone has a different sense of value. You are perfectly entitled to not wish to spend money on the game. In fact, just by playing you are supporting the game. I personally, have spent money on nosgoth. I however, have only purchased cosmetic items, founders packs, etc. All weapons and all classes (plus evolved skins) I have unlocked simply by playing the game.

If you do decide to purchase something for nosgoth, I would recommend either a really cool skin or a booster for when you have a good chunk of free time to play the game. :)

Jallford
2nd Mar 2015, 16:43
See what you should do is buy a booster, it supports the game and it's super useful. :)

Agree with this. Get a booster, play with a class you really like, unlock most classes and get an evolved skin/soon prestige skins. You support the game, it doesn't cost much and you get a cosmetic reward at the end of it.

I agree prices are high, but as others are saying you don't have to pay to unlock an extra class to enjoy the game.

crutchie
2nd Mar 2015, 17:46
I haven't spent a penny to get an item I can unlock eventually. And comparing League of Legends model to Nosgoth's isn't a fair comparison. League has a ton of heroes compared to Nosgoth's 10 (use to be 6). League of Legends is out to sting you to death for pennies as opposed to one big sucker punch. After 400 hours I finally bought some skins cause why not, it's a game I was clearly enjoying. Mostly cause I liked some of the vanguards alternates. My main complaint is I think they should change some of the original skins because the reavers, hunters and tyrants skins don't have much of a change. The evolved hunter skin though is so badass, I can't wait.

Back on topic, It's your money, play it a bit and see it's not that horrible.

Truhls
3rd Mar 2015, 00:22
Wow so many people who refused to actually read my first post. This post has nothing to do with the leveling speed/me enjoying the game/price of the costumes/boosters. Actually try reading my first post. The bread and butter of this game and the longevity of this game are tied to classes. I only have 2 classes left to unlock, and felt like buying them to enjoy the game more. The prices theyh ave set are so ridiculous i cant justify it, so i wont be supporting the game. Again the time it takes to unlock classes isnt a problem, i FELT LIKE TRYING TO SUPPORT THE GAME.

Ygdrasel
3rd Mar 2015, 00:30
Wow so many people who refused to actually read my first post. This post has nothing to do with the leveling speed/me enjoying the game/price of the costumes/boosters. Actually try reading my first post. The bread and butter of this game and the longevity of this game are tied to classes. I only have 2 classes left to unlock, and felt like buying them to enjoy the game more. The prices theyh ave set are so ridiculous i cant justify it, so i wont be supporting the game. Again the time it takes to unlock classes isnt a problem, i FELT LIKE TRYING TO SUPPORT THE GAME.

If you can't justify paying then don't. That's why they're unlockable for free. What exactly is the issue then?

Truhls
3rd Mar 2015, 00:37
If you can't justify paying then don't. That's why they're unlockable for free. What exactly is the issue then?

This is a feedback forum and im giving them my feedback. So much facepalm.

Ygdrasel
3rd Mar 2015, 00:39
This is a feedback forum and im giving them my feedback. So much facepalm.

This wasn't feedback. This was a "I'M NEVER GIVING YOU MY MONEY!" rant.

And what exactly is this feedback meant to be saying anyway?

That classes cost too much? That's why there's a free option for them.
Too impatient for the free option? Buy them.
Those are the options. Pick one.

Maybe your feedback was "I want to support the game but class unlocks are just too expensive!"

Okay. Understand that the people at Psyonix don't set the prices anyway so this feedback would be better served on SE's main forum if anywhere. And because this feedback is all but worthless on this particular forum, people offered other suggestions for supporting the game instead, like buying boosters which justify the price far more than class unlocks, in order to help solve your big "I WANT TO SUPPORT THIS BUT..." dilemma.

GG, guy.

GenFeelGood
3rd Mar 2015, 02:06
That is the way most people would and will play this game, by unlocking through play rather than through payment whenever possible. I don't imagine a lot of us pay for much outside of boosters and skins only available through purchase. I think I have spent enough money on Nosgoth to purchase a console when I try to add it all up, maybe that is a tad excessive; but part of me feels like (along with purchasing what I consider to be quality content) I am also supporting future Legacy of Kain games.

injiau
3rd Mar 2015, 02:18
It's optional if you want skins/banners the other goodies the game allows you - But when you complain about prices being too high for weapons, perks and abilities... kinda pathetic, when clearly you can play enough and earn the gold for it but you choose to complain and rant over the forum "How you will not choose to support this game".

Psyonix_Corey
3rd Mar 2015, 07:42
Okay. Understand that the people at Psyonix don't set the prices anyway so this feedback would be better served on SE's main forum if anywhere. And because this feedback is all but worthless on this particular forum, people offered other suggestions for supporting the game instead, like buying boosters which justify the price far more than class unlocks, in order to help solve your big "I WANT TO SUPPORT THIS BUT..." dilemma.

GG, guy.

While I appreciate the distinction being made, SE employees read this forum regularly, so it's not a waste of time to voice your opinions.

Ysanoire
3rd Mar 2015, 07:59
This post has nothing to do with the leveling speed/me enjoying the game/price of the costumes/boosters. Actually try reading my first post. Again the time it takes to unlock classes isnt a problem, i FELT LIKE TRYING TO SUPPORT THE GAME.

You said


Leveling from 20-25 is so slow id rather just pay to unlock them to enjoy the game more.

So people are entirely justified in assuming this is the reason you prefer to pay and pointing to other options that may or may not involve paying (e.g. for boosters). Maybe you should read your own posts before publishing them instead of insulting everyone?

Archsaint
3rd Mar 2015, 12:05
While I appreciate the distinction being made, SE employees read this forum regularly, so it's not a waste of time to voice your opinions.

It sure would be great if one of those SE employees would comment about those overpriced skins and executions.

Bazielim
3rd Mar 2015, 15:19
I'm not an employee, but my personal opinion is that they might be a little on the expensive side. As others have suggested, I instead use the more reasonably priced boosters and perks to work my way up. Otherwise I treat them like any other product on steam - if I want them enough I buy them, if not I wait for a sale (I believe there is one on right now )

While I'm here if I could encourage people to stick to the tou (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=97&a=1), particularly the part about treating the opinions of others with respect, thanks.

FireWorks_
3rd Mar 2015, 15:29
I guess the prices are in the right spot for the money making. They are too high for most, but some people insist on tossing money out. Kinda like an iPhone.

Personally, it needed a -75% sale for me to buy something via steam. I wont be buying via ingame currency cause I cant get rid of the feeling to be cheated. The 100 runes I got in my account will never be spent, Katching for SE...

Ygdrasel
3rd Mar 2015, 17:22
I guess the prices are in the right spot for the money making. They are too high for most, but some people insist on tossing money out. Kinda like an iPhone.

Except stuff on iPhone is like $2-3...Which would be far better here.

Cristari
4th Mar 2015, 21:45
This is to the people that determine the price of the packs and items in the store.

There are many threads on this subject but I just thought I would highlight what is wrong with your pricing policy.
Simply put IT SUCKS!

I noticed you have launched new packs already for the Vanguard. I have all the equipment and Skins I don't want to pay £24 for a banner! You have to consider the people that already pay for most, if not all, of the items you have in the pack. If they have them already do not supply them with another item remove it from the pack and adjust the price accordingly even if that means you only get a Banner out of it!

If you are selling class unlock tokens let us do something with them once we earned them in game even if that means trading them for in game cash or Runes!

Whom ever is in charge of pricing and items in the store needs to get a grip on reality and stop trying to screw over your existing player base. Psyonix I know these items are likely priced and suggested by SE if so you need to enforce with them more our opinions on this point and stop them from trying to screw us over. If it is your place to set these then please think about your players a little more!

Gugulug5000
4th Mar 2015, 21:59
Though I'm not quite as passionate in my opinion on the matter, I have to agree with you Cristari. The things in the store are quite expensive, but the good thing is that we don't have to buy them (since they're purely cosmetic). If the skin prices were half of what they are now, I would have likely bought a skin for each of the classes, but at this point I've only bought one (for the Vanguard because I really don't like the baby-faced-potato-headed-pirate default look). It just doesn't seem like a cosmetic change is worth their asking price, especially with the banners being exclusive to the packs right now. On the plus side, we can receive runestones from the daily rewards system, but at the current prices, I don't plan on buying much.

ApollosBow
5th Mar 2015, 00:39
Yup, bring out the banners!!........(but good job on the recent sales, there pretty cheap for skins)

Sanguise23
5th Mar 2015, 13:53
i really want the class banners (tyrant, sent) to be for sale on there own! not $46+ with a bunch of skins i have or dont want