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View Full Version : Nosgoth Ranked: Things we don't want to see happen!



NGvisator
7th Sep 2015, 06:01
This post is about what we have seen so far and what we don't want to see happen if you have any feedback post here or post on the Reddit post here (https://www.reddit.com/r/nosgoth/comments/3jxws1/nosgoth_ranked_things_that_we_dont_want_to_see/)





With recent news of Nosgoth Ranked coming again, I would like to take some time to talk about the things they said they would try out.


So without delay lets begin, PARTY SYSTEM. Though this is a nice idea in theory and has been proven in CSGO, it is a system that has been well received by the community. However, how does that effect Solo Q players? We than have very infamous topics such as Lobby Dodging, ranked skill matching and ranked rewards.


So lets tackle the Elephant in the room first, shall we? Party System, from what we have seen with CSGO the Party system allows you to queue with parties from 1-5 people from various ranks to play together and all have the experience of facing a enemy team of varying skills that which (in theory) matches your team's. Now from we have seen with that system in CSGO are some decently matched games, but quite rather can be lop sided as well. The other thing with this idea is that it generally works out quite well in CSGO's favor because of their already large player base of 300k+ players on at any given time. Now also their matchmaking system is varied much differently with a much more broken down system of rankings from Silver 8 to silver master elite, (12 ranks in all) from Gold nova 1 to Master Guardian 2 (6 ranks), DMG - Global elite (6 ranks). That also being said, there is a MMR system in CSGO that matches players accordingly. However the MMR rating cap is much different and helps spread players according to their rankss so you don't get in Nosgoth terms "ESL vs New Recruit". That being said, this issue already exists in the Nosgoth TDM queue. This is obviously a huge issue and needs to be controlled, but by not removing the parties from normal TDMs but by a proper MMR algorithm that isn't there yet. For veteran players you know that the MMR cap is 2000, so by that logic if people have clearly surpassed the skill of 2000 MMR, there is no where to go because they won't rise any higher causing a huge issue of Lop sided skill matches with players with MMR ratings of 2000. So you can quickly affirm why this would be a problem in ranked. No one wants to face 4 ESL players who are just farming lower level players for easy points for Eternal Standings. Duo Queue is already more than enough as it allows you to play with a mate and match with players who are already queued as duo or solo while still in keeping with the idea of "You people are queuing for the goal of skill, and though you don't know each other, you must fight to win". Now if you just simply get rid of that idea and make it the way it is in CSGO... you can see the idea. Farming Simulator 2015..... Now that being said, lets move on to the next big problem..


The issues of Lobby Dodging / manipulating has been seen by many players since the last few tests in Nosgoth Ranked. The concept is that if you have a match that you don't feel you are able to win fairly, you can leave the game with no penalty, and just re-queue until you get a match up where you can't lose and get free points because you know the enemy team doesn't stand a chance. That is an instant epic fail. However, there are a few games that do this such as Dirty Bomb. Just because the game hasn't started yet, doesn't mean you should be able to leave/dodge for free. Allowing people to freely leave without punishment from a lobby, allows higher skilled players to dodge out of a low skilled. Imagine League of Legends, everytime you saw someone you knew was a low skill player you could leave the game than re queue until you had a stacked team. Further pushing the fact that the way as we have seen ranked so far is nothing more than a grinding / farming noobs system. Also creates the question of who really deserves what rank in Dirty Bomb. That being said, "Queue dodging / Lobby Dodging / Lobby Manipulating etc. should not be a thing in Nosgoth in order to promote more competitive and less casual game play. You want casual? Go play TDM, not Ranked. That being said about the segregation between the Casuals and the Pros / Hardcores is the ranked skill MM system.



We already know that the Matching Making System in Nosgoth is very questionable. That being said, we know that Nosgoth has a very small player base. That aside, Match Making is going to be a lot more loose in order to accomodate more games being played so that people aren't just complaining "OMG, I can't get a game I quit". At the same time, match making is a reason why players stay or leave. Without properly matched ranked games, people will continue to experience the punishment of veteran players. We also know that rank doesn't mean anything in Nosgoth right now. Rank needs to reflect a players skill level by effectively increasing the MMR cap to something like 4000 to help normalize games so you don't get 60 hours players vs 1k+ hours players. Finally I want to discuss Ranked Rewards.


Ranked rewards is what players want. We want bragging rights, prestige, and fame. Rewards such as skins and avatar borders that reflect your ranking (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Blood [Platinum], Eternal [Top 100 players Global]). The real questions is why do the top 100 players get money for grinding. Even if they manage to fix the "grinding" issue at hand, why do the top 100 players get money? With that logic, every Non-LCS player in League of Legends in Challenger should be making cash because of their standing. The way the ranked system is right now rewards players who (currently) play day and night grinding points for prize money. Meanwhile there are ESL players who work tooth and nail for cash prizes. This is not an incentive to play Nosgoth, instead this is bribery. Ranked should not be giving money just because they are top 100. ESL players deserve cash prizes because they want to be at the highest level of play and earn the bragging rights at a National Level. Especially how Nosgoth ranked is, that means that any Joe Shmoe can just keep playing this game and grind points until he's #1 even with currently existing problems in the system as explained above.


All this being said, Nosgoth needs YOU. Your help can save our system and give the ranked system hope in to making it what it should be. Punishing but rewarding, love and hate, NOT broken and bribing. Please insert comments and upvote this post. Give this post ATTENTION. We must help sculpt the future of ranked so it doesn't become a failure. No one who is a fan of LOK or a hardcore lover of Nosgoth wants to see this game die and become another Infinite Crisis.

Yanislav
8th Sep 2015, 22:48
Party is poor idea- game will be dominated by ESL players. Team of random players will never match even two of them- and I say it from my own experience. I can't imagine it'll work unless teams won't be queued with solo.

And I agree, cash prizes are poor idea. I can already see all hate Eternal and on-their-way-to-Eternal players will write if they lose. Not to even mention who is high and who isn't is determined by amount of matches won. If pro player has busy month and has time to play just few matches per day he'll be lower than average player who can play >15/day. I got to Eternal 60 sth in Beta this way. Do I really deserve it? I don't know, people from all tiers play together. What's even a point of league if this is happening? Rookies already play with veterans at normal dm.

Arydious
9th Sep 2015, 13:25
Well,
Party is poor idea- game will be dominated by ESL players. Team of random players will never match even two of them- and I say it from my own experience. I can't imagine it'll work unless teams won't be queued with solo.

I just want to say here, that just because they are an ESL player doesn't make them amazing. There are plenty of ESL player who just started and are on par with a lot of the player base. The main difference between an "ESL" player and a normal player is they have taken the time to join a team and try to compete.

This is a team based game. The idea of catering to the solo queue is just crazy IMO, The game should do everything it can to encourage everyone to find a couple of friends and play with them, otherwise you get a bunch of people playing solo who hate their team and eventually hate the game because they are losing to much.

That being said I understand solo queueing on occasion, but it is mainly for the lolz.

Bigtalon
9th Sep 2015, 22:15
The concept is that if you have a match that you don't feel you are able to win fairly, you can leave the game with no penalty, and just re-queue until you get a match up where you can't lose and get free points because you know the enemy team doesn't stand a chance. That is an instant epic fail.

The only problem is I see, is when you sit in a lobby for 10 minute and no one joins and you try to re-queue to be able to get an active game