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Heretic_13
1st Sep 2015, 07:21
There is thread about Rahabim idea, but what about us? Humans`ll also need new solider if Rahabim rears its ugly head. I did not play in Nosgoth much- my computer is too old, getting new this week, so i`ll have at least more time to experiment with more classes. But as it is now- i am devoted Vampire Hunter. Flamethrowers, flintlocks, bows. This aren`t weapons that come to mind when thinking about monster killer. Crossbow, sword, axe, this is nice(well swords aren`t present so...). But.
New class will have other weapon and abilities. But what?
Had few ideas myself:
- Knife thrower- something like Vanguard, but more "ammunition", far more agile and dexterious, maybe even some "ninja like" hooks on the inside of the palm of the hand for limited climbing. Guy being more about dodges, rolling around and throwing knives from point blank range- aha, knife throwing from both hands(tried to learn it myself, suprisingly easy if left hand is used more in daily activities) so the throwing is more rapid
- Retiarius(gladiator type)- like guy. Throwing metal net for temporarly stunning vampires- ability. Main weapon some kind of spear or javelin
- Priest- prayer, holy symbols, sun blasts out of his hands :) mainly support- for example ability for blocking enterances with holy symbols, for covering retreat. Temporarily adding more punch to his comerades weapons by blessing them, nullyfying some vampires abilities by prayer

Fist_Of_Theos
1st Sep 2015, 22:36
Vampire Idea - Speed of tyrant under the ground and speed of deciever above ground
Lurker:
Special - Pops out of the ground doing aoe
Primary - Pulls a human halfway in halfway out of the ground disabling them for a few seconds
Secondary Ability - Digs into the ground becoming unhittable for a sec or two. Can be hurt by aoe and has a part of its body out.

Human Idea -Speed of vanguard, a little more health than others (due to being in full armor)
SS (Silver Sector):
Weapon - Old school sling shot, quick fire or twirl it around his head to add a little bit more dmg (kinda like the scout) - (Melee is a punch that does less than normal and damages to both him and vamp)
Primary Ability - Switch between sling shot and a silver sword
Secondary - Silver Grenade, Initial explosion does most the dmg, but silver lingers in the air for a few seconds causing little dot dmg.

GenFeelGood
2nd Sep 2015, 04:53
Part of me hopes that knives and spears end up as alternate weapons for the human classes, with knives going to the Hunter and spears going to the Scout.

I am in the camp of those who are hoping the next human class is Glass Cannon magic user that not only uses magic in their abilities, but also in their standard attacks.

Heretic_13
2nd Sep 2015, 05:33
Sort of like my priest, huh? Knives- throwing ones are present now in Scout inventory, but i`d like to see them as main weapon. Well, but that is personal preference, because i collect, and train with knives :)
Magic... Maybe some battle mage? Bunch of elemental spells- fire ball, lightning(Imagine going "Unilimited Powahhh" on Tyrant @$$), Sun burst, Ice stake- as one proposition for standard attack, maybe some freezeing attack, but like it is "Dark Messiah" if you put ice on the ground, and not on enemy, he can slip and fall on his back. Another standard attack- spikes(thorn like) growing out of mage nails, that he/she shoots at vampires. But animation must be like in "Risen 3" when you use crystal magic :) elegant moves. Stone wall, for blocking paths during retreat. Area earthquake for throwing vampires out of balance
Something like that?

Da_Wolv
2nd Sep 2015, 09:59
My human idea:

Beastmaster:
Weapon: Single-Shot Crossbows, hybrid weapons between Prophet and Hunter
Has a Pet Hound at his side, which has 350HP and deals 80Dmg with melee attacks to Vampires.

Primary Abilities:
1) Lick Wounds: (Aim at a teammate to activate) The pet runs to the teammate and heals them for 250. HP
2) Howl: Strikes fear into nearby Vampires, slowing their movement speed.
Secondary Abilities:
1) Anklebiter: (Aim at a Vampire to activate): The Pets next melee attack cripples the Vampire, reducing its movement speed, wall climb speed for 4 seconds while being unable to dodge roll.
2) Dash: (Aim at Vampire to activate) The pet dashes to the targeted foe, dealing massive damage in short burst attacks.

The pet is not able to climb, but can hit Vampires when they just started climbing walls, forcing them to fall back down.

TheDreamcrusher
3rd Sep 2015, 13:44
My human idea:

Beastmaster:
Weapon: Single-Shot Crossbows, hybrid weapons between Prophet and Hunter
Has a Pet Hound at his side, which has 350HP and deals 80Dmg with melee attacks to Vampires.

Primary Abilities:
1) Lick Wounds: (Aim at a teammate to activate) The pet runs to the teammate and heals them for 250. HP
2) Howl: Strikes fear into nearby Vampires, slowing their movement speed.
Secondary Abilities:
1) Anklebiter: (Aim at a Vampire to activate): The Pets next melee attack cripples the Vampire, reducing its movement speed, wall climb speed for 4 seconds while being unable to dodge roll.
2) Dash: (Aim at Vampire to activate) The pet dashes to the targeted foe, dealing massive damage in short burst attacks.

The pet is not able to climb, but can hit Vampires when they just started climbing walls, forcing them to fall back down.

That's a cool idea, a human with a beast pet. I can envision an ability where the pet is commanded to grapple a vampire, slowing it down, but if the pet is shaken off or killed by an assisting vampire, the pet can be executed for a minor health gain.

However, for a new human class, I'm in the camp with people wanting a glass-cannon, utility caster class. A glyph magic user.

GenFeelGood
3rd Sep 2015, 16:44
A glyph magic user.

Oh goodness yes, there needs to be a class that utilizes the elemental glyphs . They were only found in this era and it would be a mistake not to utilize them in a class, preferably human.

Edit
Me and another person on the forum brainstormed over such a class back in alpha, this faction either built the glyph alters or discovered them. This class utilized the glyphs in smaller more focused versions, since they couldn't have the same power as Raziel but they would have greater experience in using it. Instead of broad aoe blasts they do focused scatter shot versions, with 4 of the glyphs being used as attack variations and the other 2 being abilities.

Weapon Variants
They do bare handed magic, focusing the power through ritual tattoos that cover the hands and forearms. (Think Scar from Full Metal Alchemist)

(Can't say this enough, I only use shotgun types to describe how their characteristics differ from each other for those familiar with them)

*Water(Blunderbuss): Widest Spread, Shortest Range
*Sunlight(Birdshot): Moderate Spread, long range with a significant damage drop as it travels past mid range
*Stone: Small Spread, long range with slight damage drop as it travels past mid range
*Fire: No Spread (Single Object), long range with with the smallest drop as it travels past mid range

Abilities
Sound: A resonate roar effects the vampire's vision, making them see 2 or 3 of the humans in front of them and moving in opposite directions.

Mind: A blast similar to Raziel's but only directed in the direction they are facing, and no where near as far as Raziel could push them back.

Melee
The tattoos also facilitate the melee, creating a brace knuckle effect that allows a punch to be enough to do the trick.

Kootkha
4th Sep 2015, 02:23
Like both ideas. With Tatooed guy, and beast master of whom I was thinking too.
We all know how human rebellion ends, right? So I think, nevertheless glyphs were found, humans couldn't use it properly, so this knowledge did not lead them to victory. But Beast-masters seems more traditional, more native. Like people, former slaves, are fighting for their freedome with any cost, and any means they might use. I vote for the idea with beasts.

GenFeelGood
4th Sep 2015, 05:20
The Humans lose to the Vampires so none of the class suggestions will lead the humans to victory; but if we get the beast master, I'd like to command a bird like a drone. When activated, my body becomes stationary as I control the bird's movements while looking through its eyes. I could survey where the vamps are or attack them with a kamikaze dive that ends with the bird detonating the explosives it's rigged with upon impact with the vampire.

Heretic_13
4th Sep 2015, 06:23
You sadists... You all can vote for human infant with TNT strapped to it`s back and being shot from catapult, with all kind of racist, and necrophiliac remark, for all i care. But no hurting animals. Most especialy dogs, and thier lookalikes. I`m firmly against it. My vote is worth ****, but my personal feeling needed venting.
Glyph master sound good. Tattoo on both arms is fine as well, but minor modification- not only like Edward Elric, but more like Alucard(from "Hellsing"- to all who didn`t read this manga, or watched anime)- pentagrams on both palms, and Alucard "stabbing"(he pierced through the chest) attack, either left, or right han- depending which is cocked back(for slower, aimed, "power" strike). This also gives an opportunity for first kill human animation, should our mage got close enough to wounded enemy- tearing heart out, dropping it down, and stepping on it out of anger, or spite.
But this guy will need some kind of mana fountain, or "rune stones"(different stones :) ) scattered over map

Kootkha
4th Sep 2015, 08:00
The Humans lose to the Vampires so none of the class suggestions will lead the humans to victory; but if we get the beast master, I'd like to command a bird like a drone. When activated, my body becomes stationary as I control the bird's movements while looking through its eyes. I could survey where the vamps are or attack them with a kamikaze dive that ends with the bird detonating the explosives it's rigged with upon impact with the vampire.
That is exactly what I was thinking about !


You sadists... You all can vote for human infant with TNT strapped to it`s back and being shot from catapult, with all kind of racist, and necrophiliac remark, for all i care. But no hurting animals. Most especialy dogs, and thier lookalikes. I`m firmly against it.

Vamps threaten not only humans but to every living being in Nosgoth. Consider it's an animal self sacrifice for greater good. Or possibly it might not be a suicidal attack, but the main idea of a flying pet is good and rather interesting.

Also, Humans couldn't adequately wield magic. This is the main reason of pillars corruption, and this is the main reason of their defeat to vamps, to think of. So the master of glyphs seems to rare resource for battles in human rebellion.

Vampmaster
4th Sep 2015, 09:40
Glyph magic the exact way Raziel had it in SR1 would be both overpowered and too many abilities for one class. It should be kind of focused to a smaller area with a scepter/lens type thing or a lightning rod type thing to make it more suitable for a standard ranged attack. The larger radial spells would be reserved for the special attack and shouldn't have an AoE any larger that the Scout's volley.

Heretic_13
4th Sep 2015, 12:21
Well idea, that humans will eventually fall can be quite easly shattered. What if this is a second timeline? One after the Blood Omen 2? After paradoxes? "Nosgoth" trailer stated "join the war, decide fate of Nosgoth" so looking at whole thing from this point of view does not have anything to do with what we discuss here. Also Humans were really great magicians- look at all mages in service to Sarafan crusades, or Moebius cutthroats mercenary army- quite a lot of battle mages. Priestess- cut content from Soul Reaver 1- also had quite outstanding talent. Pillar were destroyed not because humans were too weak(they were in a sense), but because they were using magic created by non-humans- different way of thingking, of living, and ancient vampires knew exactly what Pillars do, but humans after some time have forgotten. It`s like you have been race car driver all your life, and suddenly somebody wants you to drive a tank. After some brief explenation you have only some vague idea how everything works. So its no wonder that you`ll screw up eventually
Somebody allowed Nupraptor to fell in love with Ariel, knowing of potential danger. I don`t think that ancient vampires thought it through, humans are prone to seek companionship.
Not to mention that Pillars in themselves were abominations created so Nestor could eat, and eat, and eat, not for some higher puropse.
"Vamps threaten not only humans but to every living being in Nosgoth". I don`t think they are that stupid. Destroying food source means starvation. And destroying food source of food source is also starvation, only a little later. Dunno if food chain concept is known to Kain and his freak-show menagerie, but i do think they at least have some idea. And bunch of deers and wild boars won`t threaten thier empire. But humans will.
In fact by time of Soul Reaver 1 there is nowhere stated that vampires had control over anything but thier clans territories(with exeption of Dumahim) and look how far Vampire hunters infiltrated them.- One of them is dead in Zephon chamber, whole buch of them lurks in Silenced Cathedral. Few attack Melchiahim. In one place in Drowned Abbey we have this ugly boat with harpoon. And Kain himself stated, that Clans are scattered across Nosgoth with no real power, "Look around you Raziel. See what have became of our Empire" or something like that. So no reall vicotry or defeat to anyone

Bazielim
4th Sep 2015, 14:27
What if this is a second timeline? One after the Blood Omen 2? After paradoxes?
Ok, I hate to go 'lore overload' on this stuff, but I am a stickler for the details. So apologies if necessary but here's some explanation:

*1st Timeline - 1st half of BO1 - Legions of the Nemesis etc
*2nd Timeline - end of BO1/SR1/start of SR2 - Moebius's Army replaces LoN
*3rd Timeline - mid SR2 - Kain survives 'When History and Destiny Collide'
*4th Timeline - end SR2/BO2/Defiance - Raziel escapes the Reaver/Revives Janos/causes Hylden invasion.

Long ago Nosgoth was explicitly stated to take place in the 2nd Timeline, putting it on the same timeline that led to SR1 as we saw it - so it was effectively 'before' the changes to history that changes that Raziel and Kain made in SR2. This also means that the events of BO2 can't really be referenced in any concrete manner because they haven't hppened yet (as it were). However we had also been previously informed that the Soul Reaver era (the time from the the revival of the lieutenants) did not change for all the time meddling.

So to summarise: Nosgoth is in the 2nd timeline (before the changes), but it might just as well be in the 4th timeline (after the changes) because things about this era don't really change - however they can't reference things that only took place in one version of the history (ie BO2).

I'm going back on holiday now :cool:

GenFeelGood
4th Sep 2015, 15:25
In the time of Soul Reaver, the vamp empire has collapsed and the clans are divided into isolationist states. The humans are on the rise once again and beginning to engage the vamps once more. Before the empire collapsed however, the vamps had defeated the humans; but once that war was over, with Dumah's death and the demise of his clan the burden of maintaining control over the empire's territory became too great for the clans that remained. As they worked to keep this control, their clans began to fail so they retreated into themselves to consolidate their strength.

This is how I see it anyway.

Edit

You sadists... You all can vote for human infant with TNT strapped to it`s back and being shot from catapult, with all kind of racist, and necrophiliac remark, for all i care. But no hurting animals. Most especialy dogs, and thier lookalikes. I`m firmly against it. My vote is worth ****, but my personal feeling needed venting.
Glyph master sound good. Tattoo on both arms is fine as well, but minor modification- not only like Edward Elric, but more like Alucard(from "Hellsing"- to all who didn`t read this manga, or watched anime)- pentagrams on both palms, and Alucard "stabbing"(he pierced through the chest) attack, either left, or right han- depending which is cocked back(for slower, aimed, "power" strike). This also gives an opportunity for first kill human animation, should our mage got close enough to wounded enemy- tearing heart out, dropping it down, and stepping on it out of anger, or spite.
But this guy will need some kind of mana fountain, or "rune stones"(different stones :) ) scattered over map

It doesn't necessarily have to be actual animals, it could be familiar spirits that have assumed the form of animals when materializing into this realm. They don't die, they just lose that form until they are able to assume it again later.

For the Glyph user's reload, I am quite fond of the Dark Souls version where you crush a stone and the energy stored within it is released and absorbed into you.

Kootkha
5th Sep 2015, 02:15
If it is 4th timeline, so there must be Hylden Lord at the top of the Humans rebellion, and reanimated Sarafan Order. None of this exist in the game.


Pillar were destroyed not because humans were too weak(they were in a sense), but because they were using magic created by non-humans

Idk, I find it as a sort of weak interpretation.
I don't remember any human sorcerer in LoK, except pillars gurdians wich inherited their magic from elder race. In LoK wiki we can find mentions about Hylden magic that was based on some technologies, as a confirmation of this we can take BO2 timeline with all this runes and barriers, and evem MASS machine. Elder race (winged one) wielded more usual sort of magic as it appears. My way of thinking is that all magic humans ever weild in Nosgoth, was received from Elder Races.

To synthesis all this.
I suggest new human class to wield magic(as it seems, people can't imagine humans without magic :( ), but in more primal, primordial, native way. Bcz I rather doubt that high class of magic is available to humans in this era.
So call it Shaman. With animal spirits under his command and maybe with some sort of weak glyph magic in use as weapons.

GenFeelGood
5th Sep 2015, 05:49
It's not that we can't imagine a human without magic, but that is the only category of weapon that hasn't been utilized yet. We have arrows, bolts, flays, and even bullets for Elder God's sake, but still no magic outside of abilities.

I'm cool with mixing the beast master and glyph user concepts, it should make for some diverse play style options.

Kootkha
5th Sep 2015, 11:20
Well, for me it's ok if magic wouldn't appears at humans classes at all . But however, speaking of shaman I must admit , that for the point not to be just a human "summoner№2" , he needs to
When activated, my body becomes stationary as I control the bird's movements while looking through its eyes. and every other summon-spirit ability.

Lord_Aevum
5th Sep 2015, 13:44
If it is 4th timeline, so there must be Hylden Lord at the top of the Humans rebellion, and reanimated Sarafan Order. None of this exist in the game.

Perhaps that's because the game takes place over 1000 years after Kain shanked the Hylden Lord and wiped out all his troops?


I don't remember any human sorcerer in LoK,

They were quite ubiquitous in BO1, SR2, and Defiance.

GenFeelGood
5th Sep 2015, 16:04
If we do merge the beast master & glyph user then might I suggest we also use tattoos as the mechanism for conjuring the beasts. Although the Elektra movie sucked, I think this would be cool in the game.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140314002612/villains/images/6/6d/Tudo_Sukoto_(Earth-20030209).jpg

Also, not sure what style of tats the arms would have for the glyphs; but I'm thinking a design based on the ones used in henna tattoos would be good.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6t1ddqKymsw/U_jHHTcxpqI/AAAAAAAALLk/6Zo9aNdSEmU/s1600/tattoo%2Btumblr%2Btattoos%2Bfor%2Bmentattoos%2Bfor%2Bgirls%2Btattoo%2Bquotes%2Btattoo%2Bideas%2Btattoo%2Bdesigns%2Btattoo%2Bsleeve%2Bhand%2Btattoo%2B-chest%2Btattoo%2Bsmall%2Btattoo%2Bhenna%2Bdesign%2Bmehndi040.jpg

Kootkha
6th Sep 2015, 02:28
I don't think that tattoos is best idea we were talking of. Bcz a lot of people are playing on poor video options to make their fps playable.
This guys will be cut of this content with differrent tattoos. It's hard to admire tattoo , when game looks like: http://i.imgur.com/s34Rd9dl.jpg

GenFeelGood
6th Sep 2015, 06:07
Can anything be admired when playing under those setting?

Kootkha
6th Sep 2015, 06:39
Perfomance.

Devs certanly can grant new character with different frilly tattoos on his body, but if it will not get any difference for about 30% of players, this will be only the matter of different skins, not gameplay option.

I think it's rather more acceptable if weapons would appears as different rods and talismans , as Heretic_13 said, with different lesser glyph powers.

But the skills (Q/F) will mainly focus on this summon-spirit-beasts abilities .

GenFeelGood
6th Sep 2015, 15:59
I'm open to scepters or other means of channeling the glyphs; but there are 2 glyphs left after assigning 1 to each weapon variant. Why not have one slot occupied by the 2 glyphs and the other one occupied by the beasts, it's not like you'll be able to call on 2 beasts when you are only able to remotely control 1 at a time?

Heretic_13
7th Sep 2015, 06:08
As i see you managed to find ground in between animal master and glyph user. We are all happy. And now a weapon... GenFeelGood has nice idea. Or sacraficial dagger(you know- kriss), some kind of crystal like in "Clive Barker`s: Undying"? Maybe some Voodoo-like dolls- for familliars. You throw them on the ground and it changes in to magical beast. But i must say that idea of a punching, or stabbing vampire with our heands is really close to my heart :)
Animal, or magical beast for slowing down a vampire- Prophet already has ability to slow down a vampire(finally played some more yesterday, had one guy that did this to me constantly) with this tentacle-porn pool. So i don`t really know if we need this...
I know. Remember Avernus Cathedral monks? He/she should be able to summon demons >:) This big mothers with horns

Heretic_13
5th Nov 2015, 12:32
Played "Risen" latelty. In 1 & 3 game we have crystal magic- in first game 3 crystals with offensive powers- ice, fire, and projectile. Ice freezes, immobilazing(but you need to aim correct), of course fire explodes harming enemies nearby, and projectile is bunch of telekinetic "bullets" fired rapidly, could be sustained until you have mana. But in 3 game using this magic is linked with bunch of pretty cool looking moves- every shot is fired in different position, reminding me a lot of martial arts traning, where you need go fluidly go from one position to the other
So: fireball, exploding bomb that need to be charged a bit, and set on fire nearby enemies
freeze- you`ll have you immobilizing spell, and would be kind of cool if you freeze wounded enemy- could broke him/her
projectile- much like hunter bolts, but needs cool down time- either mana need to regenerate, or power becoming to great, and mage has to wait a bit
adding to this i propose voodoo doll, that when thrown on the ground will tourn in to wolfhound, attacking either chosen vampire, or any nearby enemies
weapon could be scepter, adding power or making basic spells fired faster

ParadoxicalOmen
5th Nov 2015, 19:09
There was a thread about this a while back...can't seem to find it though.

But there were 2 cool ideas/speculations:

1) A class derived from the Nature Guardian "Bane"( http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/bane.php ), that would be some sort of Druid class (this was speculated from the post: http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/the-crucible-burnt-offerings )

"Andris can see it in his mind as clearly as if he was actually airborne, looking down on the landscape from high above like those men of the wild who are said to be able to see through the eyes of their raptors."

2) Another good idea was a class derived from the Energy Guardian "DeJoule" ( http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/dejoule.php ), that would be a more magic and elemental focused class.
Personally if an elemental class were chosen, i'd prefer a fire one...since we see fire mages in Blood Omen 1 and the Sarafan Women Priestess were able to cast some fire-ball-ish spells.

Psyonix_Ryan
5th Nov 2015, 20:30
Some great ideas in here :) Nice to see some lore discussions going on, too.

Kootkha
6th Nov 2015, 01:17
There was a thread about this a while back...can't seem to find it though.

But there were 2 cool ideas/speculations:

1) A class derived from the Nature Guardian "Bane"( http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/bane.php ), that would be some sort of Druid class (this was speculated from the post: http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/the-crucible-burnt-offerings )

"Andris can see it in his mind as clearly as if he was actually airborne, looking down on the landscape from high above like those men of the wild who are said to be able to see through the eyes of their raptors."

2) Another good idea was a class derived from the Energy Guardian "DeJoule" ( http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/dejoule.php ), that would be a more magic and elemental focused class.
Personally if an elemental class were chosen, i'd prefer a fire one...since we see fire mages in Blood Omen 1 and the Sarafan Women Priestess were able to cast some fire-ball-ish spells.

While all guardians are dead atm of game is happening(exept guardian of balance ofc), why not to imagine a man, who seeks ancient knowledge and magic secrets to fight against vamps? So he / she could use both guardians magic tricks at once. As I suggested in this post below - a class using some magic glyphs as a weapons, and using some summon spirits/beasts skills. The main idea was that this summon skills should be differ to summoner skills. I imagine a human that meditating ((in comparison with DM deceivers ability) due his spirit see through the eyes of summoned one.

Ygdrasel
6th Nov 2015, 07:27
The Humans lose to the Vampires so none of the class suggestions will lead the humans to victory; but if we get the beast master, I'd like to command a bird like a drone. When activated, my body becomes stationary as I control the bird's movements while looking through its eyes. I could survey where the vamps are or attack them with a kamikaze dive that ends with the bird detonating the explosives it's rigged with upon impact with the vampire.

Didn't...I think it was the Crucible blog...Hint at humans that could 'see' through the eyes of raptors (birds)? I'm still way into that idea but a magic user would be great too. Something akin to Blood Omen's fire mages, perhaps, carrying around tomes for various offensive spells - but specifically not curses because that's Prophet territory.

@Heretic: So a dog is of more value than a human to you? Not sure we're the sadists on this one, pal. :P

@Kootkha: Humans adequately wield magic all the time in Nosgoth. They just can't handle the off-the-charts-powerful magic inherent to the Pillars. Poor things.

Heretic_13
6th Nov 2015, 08:17
So a dog is of more value than a human to you? Not sure we're the sadists on this one, pal. :P

I love dogs. But not the magic one, no. Familiars are, by thier very nature, very short lived(looka at summoner and her ghouls)- if you can call it a life.
It`s like golem, or zombie. Dosen`t posses a soul, like a tool, but can be utilized verry effectively, because it has a good imitation of mind. For example we`d have this hyena like moster with big maw, that has enough strenght to drag vampire for a bit on the ground, toward it`s master- thus allowing a bunch of us attack the leech. After, let say 30 seconds, it shrivels down to this voodoo, or origami like doll and can be picked up again

Ygdrasel
6th Nov 2015, 08:29
I love dogs. But not the magic one, no. Familiars are, by thier very nature, very short lived(looka at summoner and her ghouls)- if you can call it a life.
It`s like golem, or zombie. Dosen`t posses a soul, like a tool, but can be utilized verry effectively, because it has a good imitation of mind. For example we`d have this hyena like moster with big maw, that has enough strenght to drag vampire for a bit on the ground, toward it`s master- thus allowing a bunch of us attack the leech. After, let say 30 seconds, it shrivels down to this voodoo, or origami like doll and can be picked up again

The ghouls aren't familiars. They're basically Melchahim Frankensteins. Horrid things...Lovely things...
A hyena dragging a vampire for thirty solid seconds? They'd all be killed in that time. Humans have enough ways to disable vampires, I think.

I'd like to see some giant bird swoop down to snatch me out of danger...Kind of a reverse-Kidnap.

Heretic_13
6th Nov 2015, 08:47
I meant familiar would be "working" for 30 seconds. Of course vampires would destroy it or set itself free in that time.
As for giant bird... Thank you for image in my head :lol: you don`t even want to know

Vampmaster
6th Nov 2015, 11:57
There was a thread about this a while back...can't seem to find it though.

But there were 2 cool ideas/speculations:

1) A class derived from the Nature Guardian "Bane"( http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/bane.php ), that would be some sort of Druid class (this was speculated from the post: http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/the-crucible-burnt-offerings )

"Andris can see it in his mind as clearly as if he was actually airborne, looking down on the landscape from high above like those men of the wild who are said to be able to see through the eyes of their raptors."

2) Another good idea was a class derived from the Energy Guardian "DeJoule" ( http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/dejoule.php ), that would be a more magic and elemental focused class.
Personally if an elemental class were chosen, i'd prefer a fire one...since we see fire mages in Blood Omen 1 and the Sarafan Women Priestess were able to cast some fire-ball-ish spells.

We already have the Alchemist as a fire class with all it's grenades and flamethrower/flamewall. A new class should be something different.

Vampires were highly vulnerable to sound, as the sound of the cathedral was said (in the deleted dialogue) to banish sanity and make vampires tear at their own eyes and throats IIRC, while Raziel's Sound Glyph and deleted Sound Reaver would have shattered the vampires like glass. How about some sort of tuning fork type staff weapon with directed sonic blasts? These wold provide a much needed high spread attacks as an alternative to the Alchemist's ones.

Sunlight, should be OK to use as some sort of beam weapon, since no specific class uses it as their primary attack. I imagine those pink crystals in Soul Reaver 2 were used to convert energy from one form to another. Some scepter with one of those attached to it like a lens could create sunlight and focus a beam of it at the vampires.

Lightning rods are always cool. I posted a link ages ago to the finale of the Merlin TV series where Merlin is aiming his staff weapon at the enemies and frying them with electric bolts. These would chain off buildings or nearby objects or enemies.

I think those would be a lot more original than a second fire class, and could work well for an energist class.

One thing that could be cool about an energist class is an associated map. Some have speculated that the human citadel is built on top of Malek's bastion. Perhaps an energist from the citadel with an underground laboratory where that soul binding machine used to be. It would resemble a Frankenstein like laboratory with electric nodes everywhere and a water wheel type thing powering the city above and all kinds of experimental weapons.

Heretic_13
6th Nov 2015, 13:03
The sound as a weapon idea ain`t half bad- someone posted tatoos on the whole lenght of the arms. Guy walks around and CLAPS, gathering energy in them, making sound waves both for offence adn defence. Help me out here, add something more to this sound idea

Vampmaster
6th Nov 2015, 13:22
The sound as a weapon idea ain`t half bad- someone posted tatoos on the whole lenght of the arms. Guy walks around and CLAPS, gathering energy in them, making sound waves both for offence adn defence. Help me out here, add something more to this sound idea

He wouldn't be going around clapping, he'd be channeling energy into the tuning fork scepter thing and using it to direct sonic blasts towards the enemy in a kind of cone shape. Like I said, sound in Soul Reaver had varying effects from causing them to tear out their own eyes/throats or shattering their bones like glass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtJimjOB18g&t=50

http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Sound_Reaver

ParadoxicalOmen
6th Nov 2015, 21:02
He wouldn't be going around clapping, he'd be channeling energy into the tuning fork scepter thing and using it to direct sonic blasts towards the enemy in a kind of cone shape. Like I said, sound in Soul Reaver had varying effects from causing them to tear out their own eyes/throats or shattering their bones like glass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtJimjOB18g&t=50

http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Sound_Reaver

That ending was awesome...i hope Raina includes it as an optional ending in her SR1 remake.

But that aside, sound is an interesting weapon...but i cant imagine a class focused on it.
I do, however, imagine this as a good plot for a new game mode...sound being used as a landscape weapon. Like for example, a 3v5 mode (3 humans and 5 vamps) but humans can activate bells and sound pipes through-out the map to stun and damage the vamps.

Not exactly but kinda like: https://youtu.be/Cyna4YiNeVM?t=1m47s

Ygdrasel
6th Nov 2015, 22:10
One thing that could be cool about an energist class is an associated map. Some have speculated that the human citadel is built on top of Malek's bastion.

Interesting idea, that...I once got it in my head somehow that it was built over Coorhagen. No idea how. The Bastion makes a lot more sense. XD

Though like Paradox said, hard to see a whole class based around sound alone. What sort of abilities might they have, alternate weapons? Sound and water are both underused weaknesses of LoK vampires...

ParadoxicalOmen
7th Nov 2015, 02:18
Interesting idea, that...I once got it in my head somehow that it was built over Coorhagen. No idea how. The Bastion makes a lot more sense. XD

Though like Paradox said, hard to see a whole class based around sound alone. What sort of abilities might they have, alternate weapons? Sound and water are both underused weaknesses of LoK vampires...

Underused in our nosgoth game...because SR1 and SR2 humans use moats for protection. And sr1 had the beloved Silenced Cathedral.

Funny thing though...Sound as weakness does seem something to be only used in SR1, can't recall anywhere else it is used...(like having a giant bell for protection)
Even though water and sound are impractical, since they'd have to carry around a giant bell or whatever...and vampires would have to be submerged in water to die (?)...this would explain why we don't see "sound (or) water warriors".

Ygdrasel
7th Nov 2015, 02:31
Underused in our nosgoth game...because SR1 and SR2 humans use moats for protection. And sr1 had the beloved Silenced Cathedral.

Funny thing though...Sound as weakness does seem something to be only used in SR1, can't recall anywhere else it is used...(like having a giant bell for protection)
Even though water and sound are impractical, since they'd have to carry around a giant bell or whatever...and vampires would have to be submerged in water to die (?)...this would explain why we don't see "sound (or) water warriors".

A giant bell would hardly be necessary. A handheld gong and a sufficiently heavy hammer to pound it would probably be enough to damage. Or some manner of weaponized instrument. How does Kain feel about the tuba? Or they could even fashion a large bell into a sort of armored dress, hollowing out a space in which to fit a human form, then they just run about banging it as the vampires' claws scrape over the outer metal.

And submersion isn't required, at least not for fledglings. In my current SR run, I watched a Melchahim perish with its ankles just grazing the edge of a lake (then hilariously reviving and dying again repeatedly as, apparently, there was the slightest ebb-and-flow to said lake - I finally impaled him out of sheer pity). But regardless, any amount would be enough to burn a bit. Damage dealt isn't about immediate fatality, it's about accumulation - which still leads to fatality.

Vampmaster
7th Nov 2015, 11:10
Underused in our nosgoth game...because SR1 and SR2 humans use moats for protection. And sr1 had the beloved Silenced Cathedral.

Funny thing though...Sound as weakness does seem something to be only used in SR1, can't recall anywhere else it is used...(like having a giant bell for protection)
Even though water and sound are impractical, since they'd have to carry around a giant bell or whatever...and vampires would have to be submerged in water to die (?)...this would explain why we don't see "sound (or) water warriors".

I mentioned the tuning fork type weapon that could focus the sound into directed blasts. Sort of like a sonic disruptor with a mystical twist to it. It would resemble the TK blasts the Turelim later use and could even be what gave them the idea to use their TK in that way. It would have the sort of range and spread of a shotgun that a lot of people were asking for.

The tuning fork would only be one weapon in tbe energists inventory. It could be swapped out for a lightning rod or sunlight focusing lens scepter weapon as in those crystals I described from SR2.

Heretic_13
9th Nov 2015, 07:27
A handheld gong and a sufficiently heavy hammer to pound it would probably be enough to damage.
:lol: yup, if you`d hit him/her with it. As for water being used as weapon, aside of moat- vampire hunters from BO1 use water baloons if i reacall? But it`s too "Śmigus-Dyngus"/"Lany poniedziałek" to me :)(you interested, go check wikipedia, to bothersome to explain) but if you do, you`ll find out why i find idea of vampire being weak to water so funny
Either sound, or elemental magic, i vote for that

Bazielim
9th Nov 2015, 09:25
As for water being used as weapon, aside of moat- vampire hunters from BO1 use water baloons if i reacall? But it`s too "Śmigus-Dyngus"/"Lany poniedziałek" to me :)(you interested, go check wikipedia, to bothersome to explain) but if you do, you`ll find out why i find idea of vampire being weak to water so funny
They did indeed - and you've hit the nail on the head as to why that concept hasn't been revisited - it's very fine line between menacing and comedic with water. The Rahabim pulled it off, but they had teeth...lots of teeth.;)

Vampmaster
9th Nov 2015, 11:52
They did indeed - and you've hit the nail on the head as to why that concept hasn't been revisited - it's very fine line between menacing and comedic with water. The Rahabim pulled it off, but they had teeth...lots of teeth.;)

I'm hoping there's some hidden meaning behind that wink. :)

Bazielim
9th Nov 2015, 19:51
I'm hoping there's some hidden meaning behind that wink. :)
I can't say I know anything more than anyone else... and if I did know something I definitely couldn't say....If you'd like I could probably say they would have teeth of some form :p

Vampmaster
9th Nov 2015, 20:43
I can't say I know anything more than anyone else... and if I did know something I definitely couldn't say....If you'd like I could probably say they would have teeth of some form :p

It was just a statement, not a question. I'm happy to wait and see, even if I'm a bit nervous about some of the ideas that have been suggested.

ParadoxicalOmen
9th Nov 2015, 22:40
And submersion isn't required, at least not for fledglings. In my current SR run, I watched a Melchahim perish with its ankles just grazing the edge of a lake (then hilariously reviving and dying again repeatedly as, apparently, there was the slightest ebb-and-flow to said lake - I finally impaled him out of sheer pity). But regardless, any amount would be enough to burn a bit. Damage dealt isn't about immediate fatality, it's about accumulation - which still leads to fatality.

I personally believe this is a gameplay thing...since it would be much simpler to detect if a vamp passed a water "line", than if he was submerged (in terms of programming). Honestly, i think its nonsense for a vampire to die just from dipping his toe into water.

I think water should be treated as acid for vampires.

Heretic_13
10th Nov 2015, 07:01
I personally believe this is a gameplay thing...since it would be much simpler to detect if a vamp passed a water "line", than if he was submerged (in terms of programming). Honestly, i think its nonsense for a vampire to die just from dipping his toe into water.

I think water should be treated as acid for vampires.

And Kain in BO did parade around cemetery in rain. Kain himself in every game, where he is protagonist either states, or hears, that water is "like acid to vampires".
But water baloons are ridiculous. Would you ever play a class that throws around water baloons?
"And here we are. Coming up- Hunter. Professional solider, weapon expert. Alchemist. Arcane and science, lots of explosions. Scout. Dead eye, and skill of a true predator. Prophet. Cursed magician, chosen one, destined to fight vampires. Vanguard. Hardened cryminals, and warrior-veterans, beliving that steel and muslce will stop vampires. And last, but not least, Wety-O. He likes to splash around and throw water baloons. His main weapon is bucket...".
Sound. Sound is good. Or elemental magic. No water, please

And i have idea that would be probably best to put somwhere else, but since i don`t know where...
Human execution- vampires have one, or two, and it grants them some experience, hoever little it is, some people will run around and eat only to gains additional 10-15 xp. Not fair in my opinion. How about some double tap? For example slitting throat of lying
vampire or piercing heart. Prophet could shoot the head, vanguard crush throat with edge of his shield. And grant additional xp

ParadoxicalOmen
10th Nov 2015, 20:33
And i have idea that would be probably best to put somwhere else, but since i don`t know where...
Human execution- vampires have one, or two, and it grants them some experience, hoever little it is, some people will run around and eat only to gains additional 10-15 xp. Not fair in my opinion. How about some double tap? For example slitting throat of lying
vampire or piercing heart. Prophet could shoot the head, vanguard crush throat with edge of his shield. And grant additional xp

Vampire execution's are a way to regain health...the devs just added a cool variety to that, which is nice.
Human execution's would serve no purpose.

Ygdrasel
11th Nov 2015, 05:15
yup, if you`d hit him/her with it.


Also if you ring it. Because sound in sufficient frequencies is damaging to vampires. Didn't you say you've played these games? The weaknesses of vampires are pretty plainly stated.

Also no idea why you're stuck on this water balloon idea. :scratch: Nobody said anything about a class wielding water balloons. I could make every aspect of this game sound like goofy trash too if I was so determined. Yes, water balloons ARE ridiculous which is why nobody - except you for some reason - ever suggested them as a weapon.

Water scorches like acid to a vampire. Carry some glass orbs full with the stuff, shatter them against a Reaver's head, the skin starts to bubble and steam. No need of balloons or buckets.

@Paradox: I had once offered the idea of human 'executions' serving to boost morale, represented in gameplay mechanics as a short-lived buff to damage or something. If the human sprint ever gets a stamina meter attached, it could serve to refill that a bit. Otherwise though, yes, they'd serve no functional purpose.

Heretic_13
12th Nov 2015, 15:25
Watch "ZombieLand" and "double tap rule" :) Vamps ain`t zombies, but they giving thier life just as hard. "To make sure" if you will
Okay Ygdrasel, but gongs were good against Turel because of his extra sensitive hearing, and were several meters tall and wide, somebody proposed tuning fork, while i do think it`s funny(what will we do with it up close? Stick it in his eyes?), it`s far better than running around like freaking geysha with gong and drumstick

Vampmaster
12th Nov 2015, 16:07
Watch "ZombieLand" and "double tap rule" :) Vamps ain`t zombies, but they giving thier life just as hard. "To make sure" if you will
Okay Ygdrasel, but gongs were good against Turel because of his extra sensitive hearing, and were several meters tall and wide, somebody proposed tuning fork, while i do think it`s funny(what will we do with it up close? Stick it in his eyes?), it`s far better than running around like freaking geysha with gong and drumstick

If you need me to describe the physics of it, I mean an orb of compressed air would form between the two prongs of the tuning fork and then be projected forward towards the vampire.

EDIT: Removed the picture as it was too misleading.

ParadoxicalOmen
12th Nov 2015, 20:43
@Vampmaster
Seems a bit too advanced for Nosgoth, imo...

GenFeelGood
12th Nov 2015, 22:35
I messed up with my Glyph Disciple concept, he needs five weapon variants and I only gave him 4 (Stone, Sunlight, Water, and Fire) with the remaining 2 glyphs (Sound and Force) being abilities. The sound glyph would be a better fit as the final weapon variant.

Vampmaster
12th Nov 2015, 23:10
@Vampmaster
Seems a bit too advanced for Nosgoth, imo...

You just looked at the picture without reading the what I wrote, didn't you? :rolleyes: A good sorcerer wouldn't need a high tech blaster weapon like that, just a metal noise stick that vibrates to make the sounds. That's all the tuning fork is.

Some sort of conductor for directing various types of energy of which sound is just one type.

Raptr0s
13th Nov 2015, 01:27
http://plzcdn.com/ZillaIMG/1414cd8bf91cd77e9ca964979b839364.jpg

If we could have a gladiator class, I'd die happy.

Or even a Vangurd gladiator skin...

Ygdrasel
13th Nov 2015, 05:37
it`s far better than running around like freaking geysha with gong and drumstick

Nobody said a thing about geishas. Weird to tie it all up in that very specific racial thing.

And no, you wouldn't stick the tuning fork in their eyes. You seem to have a thing for immediately taking ideas to absurd scenarios (WATER BALLOONS!, GEISHAS!, FORKS IN EYES!) without anyone suggesting doing so. It's a rather bizarre habit.

All major uses of sound as a weakness in the series have utilized massive implements - giant gongs against Turel, or the massive pipes in Zephon's cathedral. But these were used to entirely different purposes, killing a highly-evolved monster and worldwide vampiric genocide respectively. A compact implement would suit just fine for damaging mere footsoldiers in battle, and a suitably skilled magical type could amplify the natural sound-producing capacity beyond its natural limits in any case.

@Vamp: So would alternate loadout options utilize other energies then? Electrical would seem the other obvious one, what with metal and all...

@Raptros: Looks like the Vanguard if he was taller and thinner.

Vampmaster
13th Nov 2015, 10:14
http://plzcdn.com/ZillaIMG/1414cd8bf91cd77e9ca964979b839364.jpg

If we could have a gladiator class, I'd die happy.

Or even a Vangurd gladiator skin...

Erm, the guy on the right is virtually identical to this:



@Vamp: So would alternate loadout options utilize other energies then? Electrical would seem the other obvious one, what with metal and all...

Indeed. It was part of my suggestion for an Energist class. There's be a Sound weapon, an Electric weapon and Sunlight weapon. It would just be a magical conduit for focusing those energies at a target rather than some high tech equipment.

ParadoxicalOmen
13th Nov 2015, 21:51
You just looked at the picture without reading the what I wrote, didn't you? :rolleyes: A good sorcerer wouldn't need a high tech blaster weapon like that, just a metal noise stick that vibrates to make the sounds. That's all the tuning fork is.

Some sort of conductor for directing various types of energy of which sound is just one type.

No, i did read what you wrote...still think it feels too advanced for Nosgoth.
Can't imagine a guy with a weapon like that which is capable of actually harming a vampire, instead of just annoying him. Because it would have be a powerful yet compact weapon (to be transported), and it doesn't feel like the humans are at that stage yet (at least for me...)

@Raptros
Dude...Vanguard? He is literally what you described.

Ygdrasel
13th Nov 2015, 23:21
Indeed. It was part of my suggestion for an Energist class. There's be a Sound weapon, an Electric weapon and Sunlight weapon. It would just be a magical conduit for focusing those energies at a target rather than some high tech equipment.

Sounds good.

@Paradox: It would be compact. As for powerful, doesn't the power depend more on the user rather than the tool where magic is concerned?

ParadoxicalOmen
14th Nov 2015, 14:27
@Paradox: I had once offered the idea of human 'executions' serving to boost morale, represented in gameplay mechanics as a short-lived buff to damage or something. If the human sprint ever gets a stamina meter attached, it could serve to refill that a bit. Otherwise though, yes, they'd serve no functional purpose.

This is more interesting idea. I do fear that the humans are already too good, and a buff might tip the balance.



@Paradox: It would be compact. As for powerful, doesn't the power depend more on the user rather than the tool where magic is concerned?

I was led to believe that this weapon isn't magical...
If you're saying the force/vibration is caused by some sort of telekinetic blast or something (from the user), this changes everything.

Vampmaster
14th Nov 2015, 14:59
This is more interesting idea. I do fear that the humans are already too good, and a buff might tip the balance.



I was led to believe that this weapon isn't magical...
If you're saying the force/vibration is caused by some sort of telekinetic blast or something (from the user), this changes everything.

There are many examples (I'll have to look for some when I'm not on my tablet) of magicians using some sort of physical instrument to focus and channel their magical energies. I wss just trying to suggest a few, since I felt it would be good for thr class to have a weapon it could equip and because it provides a reason why the magic would function as a ranged attack. It's good to have large AoE type spells as abilities, but for regular attacks to also be magically orientated, it seems sensible that the user would have some object to channel the magic through.

ParadoxicalOmen
15th Nov 2015, 16:24
There are many examples (I'll have to look for some when I'm not on my tablet) of magicians using some sort of physical instrument to focus and channel their magical energies.

From your suggestion it didn't seem to have any magic involved, which is why i gave it such criticism.
As you said in a similar manner (in the Primordial Mage thread), magic is quite abstract and have no clear restriction on what you can/can't do with it...

Even though humans in Nosgoth have good technology, i don't feel they are capable of creating a compact sonic emitter powerful enough to harm a vampire. Now if you involve this weapon concept with magic, there isn't much to criticize since magic doesn't have much explanation/restrictions.

Vampmaster
15th Nov 2015, 17:15
From your suggestion it didn't seem to have any magic involved, which is why i gave it such criticism.
As you said in a similar manner (in the Primordial Mage thread), magic is quite abstract and have no clear restriction on what you can/can't do with it...

Even though humans in Nosgoth have good technology, i don't feel they are capable of creating a compact sonic emitter powerful enough to harm a vampire. Now if you involve this weapon concept with magic, there isn't much to criticize since magic doesn't have much explanation/restrictions.

Yes, well if I mentioned sonic emmitter, I was referring to the end result (A cone of high pitched sound that shattered vampires like Raziel's Sound Glyph spell) rather than the means by which it was achieved.

EDIT: In addition, the means by which attacks are made is a relevent discussion to have regarding any magic user class. When there are many topics on a similar subject, it's natural to refer to previous ones just like how one conversation you have with a person might remind you of a earlier one you had where you discussed a similar idea.

Heretic_13
16th Nov 2015, 08:09
Nobody said a thing about geishas. Weird to tie it all up in that very specific racial thing.

And no, you wouldn't stick the tuning fork in their eyes. You seem to have a thing for immediately taking ideas to absurd scenarios (WATER BALLOONS!, GEISHAS!, FORKS IN EYES!) without anyone suggesting doing so. It's a rather bizarre habit.

Somebody proposed using water as weapon, so i gave example of how it was used in BO1. And with tunning fork, i wondered how would you bayonet them with this thing. I tried to joke. I often forget you cannot see my face, nor hear my voice tone, so you cannot "hear or see" my sarcasm or facial expression, when i write this things
I vote for glyph mage, as for the class i find most fun to play with. But if not, some kind of sound master, but without this ridicolous for- tattooes channeling energy are good enough
About aerial attack- how about sound blast(or wathever i go now with sound glyph) that disperses smoke covering sun, and allows its rays to reach specific area?

Later the same day: That i didn`t think of it at first proves that i have memory of a carp(5 seconds). We want "unortodox magician". Someone here wanted "Duelist".
So
I present to you Alexander Anderson from "Hellsing" manga/anime. You can read about him in buch of wikias, or watch his moments on youtube- i suggest english dub, because he`s far better there, if you ask me. While we cannot use all of his abilities- great hand to hand combatant, and regeneration on pair with vampires- we can still pick up his abilities for using barriers restricting vampires movements, or throwing knives with the speed of a machinegun, pulling them from God knows where- he also carries a whole bunch of different bayonets wit him- some are regular, some other explode when stuck inside of enemy. Give him bunch of glyph spells to add force to knives and i`ll be happy
Of course you will not, so i am all ears

Ygdrasel
16th Nov 2015, 22:44
Somebody proposed using water as weapon, so i gave example of how it was used in BO1. And with tunning fork, i wondered how would you bayonet them with this thing. I tried to joke. I often forget you cannot see my face, nor hear my voice tone, so you cannot "hear or see" my sarcasm or facial expression, when i write this things
I vote for glyph mage, as for the class i find most fun to play with. But if not, some kind of sound master, but without this ridicolous for- tattooes channeling energy are good enough
About aerial attack- how about sound blast(or wathever i go now with sound glyph) that disperses smoke covering sun, and allows its rays to reach specific area?


If balloons were ever used in Blood Omen, I never saw them. Where were they? In any case, graphics are too good now. They'd look comedic. I'd still go with some manner of shattering container.

Still don't know why you have the fork vendetta. You keep throwing the word "ridiculous" out but you've not much explained how it would be so. You do realize we're not talking about kitchen forks, right?


The smoke in this era is thick enough to eclipse the sun. If they had something strong enough to disperse that at all, they'd have won the war. And I'm pretty sure sound is incapable of dispersing matter in this way regardless.

Barriers restricting vampire movement is something we've seen in LoK before. Though I'm not sure how this would play in Nosgoth, some manner of stun? Ought to be careful with stun attacks - humans output damage very rapidly, can make it tricky to balance out.

A class wielding some manner of bayonet does sound enjoyable just aesthetically but it's also a melee weapon so it'd find limited use. Exploding ones is a bit over the top as well. Throwing knives are good, imbued with various effects perhaps.

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 02:06
If balloons were ever used in Blood Omen, I never saw them. Where were they?

Same here...i read you guys talking about it, but i don't remember also...which enemy used water balloons in BO?

Heretic_13
17th Nov 2015, 07:19
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunters_%28water_balloons%29
I played Blood Omen last time many years ago, so do forgive me, i cannot point you to exact place in game where you see them
Though in game they probably look like acid throwers or something. I dunno
And as you could read from my previous post- i don`t want new class to fight up close as well as vampires, and i didn`t want exploding bayonets- i want knives that would have different propeties

ParadoxicalOmen
17th Nov 2015, 21:56
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunters_%28water_balloons%29
I played Blood Omen last time many years ago, so do forgive me, i cannot point you to exact place in game where you see them
Though in game they probably look like acid throwers or something. I dunno
And as you could read from my previous post- i don`t want new class to fight up close as well as vampires, and i didn`t want exploding bayonets- i want knives that would have different propeties

:lol: well whatta-you-know...
I'll be checking that out someday, replay BO1.

Ygdrasel
17th Nov 2015, 23:35
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunters_%28water_balloons%29
I played Blood Omen last time many years ago, so do forgive me, i cannot point you to exact place in game where you see them
Though in game they probably look like acid throwers or something. I dunno
And as you could read from my previous post- i don`t want new class to fight up close as well as vampires, and i didn`t want exploding bayonets- i want knives that would have different propeties

"he also carries a whole bunch of different bayonets wit him- some are regular, some other explode when stuck inside of enemy."

You specifically requested exploding bayonets.

And yeah, the graphics probably obscured what that weapon was. Nonetheless, I still think just changing the 'balloon' part would solve the issue. Ninjas (allegedly) hollowed out eggs and filled them with ground glass for throwing at the enemy. Obviously, it wouldn't be actual eggs in Nosgoth but the basic idea fits, some easily-destructable container filled with harmful substance.

Heretic_13
18th Nov 2015, 07:16
He carries bayonets- pulling thier infinite amount from God know where, that what i want- guy throwing knives with both of his hands, three, four at the time. Or One "focused" special knife(ability). Exploding, magical, wathever. I`m just wishing for knife thrower

Ygdrasel
18th Nov 2015, 09:12
He carries bayonets- pulling thier infinite amount from God know where, that what i want- guy throwing knives with both of his hands, three, four at the time. Or One "focused" special knife(ability). Exploding, magical, wathever. I`m just wishing for knife thrower

If you want throwing knives, say knives. A bayonet is a specific type of blade which affixes to the end of a gun (http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9633/10496421_1.jpg?v=8CDC989535FD580). Treating them as the same thing is making your suggestion very confusing.

Two to three at a time, as a default, may be too much. Even the Vanguard needs to buy a specific weapon to throw double.
Ultimately though, a knife-thrower sounds too similar to Vanguard's attack, and you've not really detailed potential abilities at all beyond vague terms like "exploding" and "magical". What would set him apart as something deserving of its own class? I'd imagine a DoT-focused class myself, knives imbued with fire, lightning, water, hazards that linger...

If the mere aspect of 'knife thrower' is all you wish, the Vanguard effectively fulfills that role with axes.

ParadoxicalOmen
18th Nov 2015, 17:03
I don't care much about this "knife thrower class" idea.
We already have an Axe thrower, as Ygdrasel said...and if you (Heretic_13) want knife throwing, play more with Scout. He has throwing knives.

I much prefer they do one of our speculated classes...Mage or Druid, that is...

Heretic_13
19th Nov 2015, 10:39
So we could close that thread, and move to the "Primodal Mage" as we basically discuss that in two places :)

Heretic_13
21st Jan 2016, 20:43
No Primodial Mage, Duelist or any kind of knife thrower.
http://esploded.s3.amazonaws.com/user_data/GooieGreen/Z7Cu-NewHumanClass2.png
Now we know- what do you figure? Some musket, but what can he provide, tha is not already brought by Scout, Hunter, or Prophet?
Hunter- decent fire power and machinegun-like fire
Prophet- better dmg, some rather nice abilities for draning vampires, and flintlock revolver
Scout- pure sniper-predator
What musket can give us? In worst case scenario it`ll be something between Hunter and Scout- pseudo marksman, pseudo skirmisher. I am hoping like hell i am wrong on this one

Ygdrasel
21st Jan 2016, 23:21
No Primodial Mage, Duelist or any kind of knife thrower.
http://esploded.s3.amazonaws.com/user_data/GooieGreen/Z7Cu-NewHumanClass2.png
Now we know- what do you figure? Some musket, but what can he provide, tha is not already brought by Scout, Hunter, or Prophet?
Hunter- decent fire power and machinegun-like fire
Prophet- better dmg, some rather nice abilities for draning vampires, and flintlock revolver
Scout- pure sniper-predator
What musket can give us? In worst case scenario it`ll be something between Hunter and Scout- pseudo marksman, pseudo skirmisher. I am hoping like hell i am wrong on this one


Scout is long-range. Prophet and Hunter are mid-range.
A shotgun/blunderbuss would be high power but only at short range, high risk. (A musket would just be a terrible weapon.)

The class is being discussed quite a bit in this thread (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=184962&page=2&p=2194157#post2194157). Some say it's a harpoon gun. Others say it's some higher-tech arms courtesy of Moebius. All agree that a mohawk would be stupid.