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Scrincer
21st Aug 2014, 03:30
with Human / Prophet he had 30K+ damages and 15 kills+ for 2 games in a row.

He was hitting me like on every corner, even when he shouldnt know I was there. I figured he probably had a wallhack or something. He also had an almost perfect accuracy.

He played this game 64hours total.
He was average / bad with vampire.

What do you guys think ?

AreZee
21st Aug 2014, 06:49
any screenshots? 15 kills is high but common for a good player. I played this game for ~60 hours myself and got games with 20/7/11 (K/D/A) and 23k dmg done. Hitting someone right after they went around the corner isn't that strange either if you think about the camera location in a 3rd Person game. I use the camera very often to "look" around corners before engaging in a fight.

The only thing that seems high to me is the 30k dmg part. But let's assume the 20-30% "forum post exaggeration" and it's fine too :cool:

In the end it still can be a hacker, but 64 hours of playtime and good gaming experience makes this possible

Prime_Abstergo
21st Aug 2014, 08:00
In the end it still can be a hacker, but 64 hours of playtime and good gaming experience makes this possible Ah yes, "competititve fps players" :hmm:, descendents of CSGO and TF2. They will pwn you even at 1st level. No surprise.
That's the case of OP thread.Why? Mostly because of bad vampire gameplay evidence.

FireWorks_
21st Aug 2014, 12:56
Ah yes, "competititve fps players" :hmm:, descendents of CSGO and TF2. They will pwn you even at 1st level. No surprise.
That's the case of OP thread.Why? Mostly because of bad vampire gameplay evidence.

Dont forget the descendants of ET. Quick reaction and tracking targets is their speciality. :friends:

To accomplish 30k damage you need to have a really bad team yourself. They would drain more of the total team damage usually. 25k is totally legit though for 4v4. I personally reach 30k only with a 4v3 game.

Was it 4v3? How experienced was his team?


But in the end we cannot judge this finally. I hope VAC can. Report and hope it gets handled correctly.

FireWorks_
21st Aug 2014, 15:49
Ok apprently these guys were good enough so I only got close to 29k as human but I also had a total of 50% team damage as vampire. Lost anyway :nut:

http://www11.pic-upload.de/thumb/21.08.14/srfsntu2sevr.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-24333946/2014-08-21_00001.jpg.html)
http://www11.pic-upload.de/thumb/21.08.14/b3ddkpziphs.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-24333947/2014-08-21_00002.jpg.html)

Trev1989
21st Aug 2014, 23:44
Ok apprently these guys were good enough so I only got close to 29k as human but I also had a total of 50% team damage as vampire. Lost anyway :nut:

http://www11.pic-upload.de/thumb/21.08.14/srfsntu2sevr.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-24333946/2014-08-21_00001.jpg.html)
http://www11.pic-upload.de/thumb/21.08.14/b3ddkpziphs.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-24333947/2014-08-21_00002.jpg.html)
What was your setup as Hunter?

FireWorks_
22nd Aug 2014, 00:30
What was your setup as Hunter?

I currently run Siege/Whip/Grenade/Deadeye

Scrincer
26th Aug 2014, 00:18
I flew with my sentinel a really short distance and then went up really quickly as soon as there was an angle to hit me instahit.
even before I could see him it was weird. He couldnt have a clue i was coming, he was cornered with his team no vision... there was a huge wall to cover me.

I dont know how good its possible to be at this game because with my current PC its barely playable. Maybe on my PC i was a bit behind the action and I was actually clearly in sight.

Pisthetaerus
26th Aug 2014, 07:45
any screenshots? 15 kills is high but common for a good player. I played this game for ~60 hours myself and got games with 20/7/11 (K/D/A) and 23k dmg done. Hitting someone right after they went around the corner isn't that strange either if you think about the camera location in a 3rd Person game. I use the camera very often to "look" around corners before engaging in a fight.

The only thing that seems high to me is the 30k dmg part. But let's assume the 20-30% "forum post exaggeration" and it's fine too :cool:

In the end it still can be a hacker, but 64 hours of playtime and good gaming experience makes this possible
30k damage is a little questionable if that's true. I've pulled 18-1s with buckets of assists with a prophet and still come up short of 30k. Doing that multiple times in a row is pretty sketchy.

The only obvious hacker I've seen was a scout (who already has 2 vac bans, one 20 days old) sniping me across the map while I was invisible with the deciever's disguise.

Mayhzon
26th Aug 2014, 11:55
Not going into big details here to avoid people finding it, but searching through certain too well-known sources yields results in terms of questionable "enhancement software". Now, this could be fake, but it might also be real. In either case, we can just hope the developers will have this issue under control before it becomes an issue in the first place.

I sent relevant information to the developers via a private message, but I imagine they are already aware of their existence and have certain mechanics in place to make altering the game in unwanted ways difficult.

Efften
26th Aug 2014, 15:48
This game is running on the unreal engine. So I would assume some unreal engines hacks and cheats would still work or could be adapted fairly easily. Vampires will be harder to cheat with this you don't have any guns to shoot with.

And I hear vampires way before I see them and with good ears and sound you can tell where a vamp is going to appear and be looking that way and shoot instantly.

Keelinsmile
27th Aug 2014, 03:23
I've only come across one game with hackers so far, or at least that I know about, and my situation was similar. Every time I came out from behind a wall as a vampire I was shot instantly, despite sticking to the ground and purposely taking routes that would conceal my whereabouts. I felt something was suspicious so I switched to reaver to test it out. Twice I laid down smoke while already hidden around a corner and the person(s) in question ran around and didn't even hesitate to shoot me directly, despite them being in the smoke. Now, I could say it was from dmg tracking, but there were no missed shots and no previous dmg to go off of.

Once the teams switched sides their "skill lvl" drastically dropped. It was also easy to find videos of people using hacks acting in the exact same way as the two people I faced against.

The tough part is proving it. I didn't have a recording software installed so without video proof there isn't anything to be done. Fortunately I've not come across more experiences like this yet. I play on the US servers. Best advice is to get a recording software, I am going to give Open Broadcaster Software a shot, and if you run into this situation again send in the videos to the team.

Whoopdidoohah
28th Aug 2014, 13:58
So, here's what happened. Against a certain player, I and a friend were suspicious about the legitimity of his 'skillfull play', as we thought he was using some kind of third party software to help him play human.

So we both decided to go with deceiver and see if he would still be jibbing us when invisible.

That guy was putting a sticky grenade up my deceiver's ass when invisible with disguise. He did it twice to me in the same game and once to my friend. I told that guy that I thought he was cheating and that I was going to report and he told me he wasn't so here's the question :

Can you really be skilled enough to see an invisible (with disguise, not human form) Deceiver and kill him while he is invisible with any skill, or can't it just be attributed to pure luck or some cheat ? If it happens once, pure luck I'm okay with that, if it happens multiple times, I call this cheating.

If so, VAC isn't working and reporting players take too much time, as I reported him a couple days ago and he's still playing. Well perhaps he's legitimate and just pro (wich I doubt, he sucked as vampire, and we still won). Also, I usually don't care about nationality, but this guy is Russian, take it for what it is.

The more I play this game the more I encounter those kind of shenanigans, it's becoming rather disgusting. I've thrown a good 40$ at this game because I love it but I will stay on the sidelines and stop buying skins because I don't see any actions taken against cheaters like that, yesterday there was another cheater I played against that was aim botting and speed hacking like crazy (although that one was easy to notice). This is the cancer of this game, that and matchmaking. IMO you can't reliably hit a disguised deceiver (during his invisibility) but I'm here to ask you guys if you think it's possible with practice, and if so, what are the signs (yeah yeah yeah I can hear footsteps, but to be able to aim a sticky grenade at a disguised Deceiver, repeatedly, is another story).

GenFeelGood
28th Aug 2014, 14:16
There are subtle signs that indicate your presence, even while invisible. You make a noise that can be heard, that tells them you are around, and your feet kick up dust as you move. I have knived, bolad, whipped, torched (with a flamethrower), and gunned down invisible deceivers and likewise has been done to me when I play a deceiver.

Mayhzon
28th Aug 2014, 14:32
It happened to me now, too. Just last game I played against a human scout who was consistently hitting every arrow. At one point I was running next to him in disguise and another teammember was next to me. The scout then snapped forth and back between the both of us.

This needs to get addressed before it gets out of hand.

Actually, there are hacks for this game already, as sad as it is. That said, it can be possible to track a disguised player depending on the situation.

Did you go into disguise after having engaged the humans? He could have simply shot the grenade in the direction you were running.

Whoopdidoohah
28th Aug 2014, 15:31
Actually, there are hacks for this game already, as sad as it is. That said, it can be possible to track a disguised player depending on the situation.

Did you go into disguise after having engaged the humans? He could have simply shot the grenade in the direction you were running.

I usually disguise out of ennemy sight and make my approach when other vamps are attacking so the odds that he saw me going towards him legitimately are quite slim. But I can live with it happening to me once in a blue moon, being unlucky with random hits in my general invisible direction, but not twice in 5 mins and on my friend teammate. We purposedly used Deceiver to debunk his shaddy shooting 'skills'. Never has been as obvious as to eat a sticky grenade in the relative safety of invisibility's disguise. I see some good players hitting 25k + damage as hunter, but when they play vampire they're also good, and this player wasn't. Also, since I started playing I've been a fan and I watch many streams, and I can see how skilled they can be, but at same time I rarely, very rarely see them using cooldowns in random directions when a deceiver approaches them, unless like what's been said, when they see the Deceiver prior to his cloaking.

I'm always skeptical about players screaming 'CHEATZ !!!1!' when they get killed, but now that I experienced multiple shaddy manoeuvers multiple times as of late, I will refrain myself from advertising this game to friends and hyping it like I used to, untill I see less of them than more. Yesterday in the matters of 2 hours of gaming, I've had a cheater pissing in my Cornflakes twice. This is rather annoying.

Aggggh
28th Aug 2014, 16:05
It happened to me now, too. Just last game I played against a human scout who was consistently hitting every arrow. At one point I was running next to him in disguise and another teammember was next to me. The scout then snapped forth and back between the both of us.

This needs to get addressed before it gets out of hand.

Close range it is possible if you watch for dust and listen for footsteps. The biggest tell is when they're doing it on invisible disguised decievers at long ranges where they shouldn't be able to see or hear those ques.

Hersaint
28th Aug 2014, 16:43
Yep, I have stopped playing deceiver because of the ability for players to see through my invisible. Add that to the AOE spam and its deceived by no one. I hope they bring back invis; I loved the deceiver.

renandroid
28th Aug 2014, 21:02
I don't cheat. In fact I'm pretty newb. I have spun around as a human and gunned down an invisible deciever before. You can see a blue-ish hue where they are invisible matching a clear outline of their body. Have you never noticed this yourself playing as a human?

Sanguise23
28th Aug 2014, 21:09
I don't cheat. In fact I'm pretty newb. I have spun around as a human and gunned down an invisible deciever before. You can see a blue-ish hue where they are invisible matching a clear outline of their body. Have you never noticed this yourself playing as a human?
thats shroud not the same invisible, we are talking about beginning of disguise

Blackatana1
28th Aug 2014, 22:00
When in doubt, report. I have personally reported 2 players myself. Where they cheating? I don't know. I thought there was enough evidence to suggest that they were so i reported. If they aren't then no real harm done, if they are, the devs can work on countering the cheats.

Always report when your suspicious. I haven't heard anything from the devs that they are recieving too much to respond to right now.

Persiphas
28th Aug 2014, 22:14
I also had some matches where a scout shot me during invis -.- he explained that he could see some dust on the ground across the whole map (i'm not even exaggerating here, i immediately popped disguise on respawn since he always hit me, no matter where i was). don't get me wrong, i know about the deceivers walking noise and that the terrain can indicate where he is. what i really want to know is if it is possible to spot deceivers on such great distances and do accurate hits on them if you are skilled. i don't consider myself a skillful / pro player (that's why i'm asking XD), but i tried spotting deceivers many times now, often i can here a noise when they are close to me but even if i see a deceiver go invis and know that he will go in a straight line at me i fail to see many dust clouds (only very occasionally) oO and i have never seen blue lightning footsteps which some players claim to see when deceiver is invisible (i'm not talking about phase/shroud)... can someone enlighten me? XD are there special settings some players use (for example high contrasts)? or is the amount of people using bots and claiming that they are just pro players (at lvl 20) going through the roof? i did some research and found many sites providing bots for nosgoth, with the option to turn off the most suspicious behaviours (for example increased movement speed or ultra high attack speed). for me it is really hard to distinguish between a good player and bots now...



So, here's what happened. Against a certain player, I and a friend were suspicious about the legitimity of his 'skillfull play', as we thought he was using some kind of third party software to help him play human.

So we both decided to go with deceiver and see if he would still be jibbing us when invisible.

That guy was putting a sticky grenade up my deceiver's ass when invisible with disguise. He did it twice to me in the same game and once to my friend.
Seems very suspicious to me :o but something similiar also happened to me (i was the one bolaing/grenading), because the deceivers just ran in a straight line at my face ( not from behind) while i was shooting at a vamp in their direction (basically they were hit by the skills i wanted to use on someone else). but i highly doubt that he hit you just with his insane skills (if you did not do noob mistakes... i just assume you did not XD)...

-Moltenmarble

nWo_Luniz
28th Aug 2014, 22:26
The only real legit way of getting 30k damage is if it was a 2v4/3v4 for a good portion of the game and your team were less than average.

FireWorks_
28th Aug 2014, 22:44
The only real legit way of getting 30k damage is if it was a 2v4/3v4 for a good portion of the game and your team were less than average.

That is so not true. The 29k random screen I posted earlier is from a full 4v4. If my last grenade would have counted, Id topped the 30k.

Granted the 4k score I managed once came from having many multikills when playing with 3 against 4. But 30k damage is doable on 4v4 - as totally legit player. By the amount of unexperienced and bad players in the lower levels, its even easily doable if you got a decent FPS career.


what i really want to know is if it is possible to spot deceivers on such great distances and do accurate hits on them if you are skilled.
-Moltenmarble

I dont know about the cloaking tbh. But its generally pretty visible if you look for it and if you got a -spread bow you got a pinpoint weapon to hit everything at any range.

At the start of valeholm I hit a deceiver 3 times in a row with the warbow cause he thought its clever to run out in the open. Sure I got called hacker for him being stupid.


So, here's what happened. Against a certain player, I and a friend were suspicious about the legitimity of his 'skillfull play', as we thought he was using some kind of third party software to help him play human.

So we both decided to go with deceiver and see if he would still be jibbing us when invisible.

That guy was putting a sticky grenade up my deceiver's ass when invisible with disguise. He did it twice to me in the same game and once to my friend. I told that guy that I thought he was cheating and that I was going to report and he told me he wasn't so here's the question :

Can you really be skilled enough to see an invisible (with disguise, not human form) Deceiver and kill him while he is invisible with any skill, or can't it just be attributed to pure luck or some cheat ? If it happens once, pure luck I'm okay with that, if it happens multiple times, I call this cheating.

If so, VAC isn't working and reporting players take too much time, as I reported him a couple days ago and he's still playing. Well perhaps he's legitimate and just pro (wich I doubt, he sucked as vampire, and we still won). Also, I usually don't care about nationality, but this guy is Russian, take it for what it is.

The more I play this game the more I encounter those kind of shenanigans, it's becoming rather disgusting. I've thrown a good 40$ at this game because I love it but I will stay on the sidelines and stop buying skins because I don't see any actions taken against cheaters like that, yesterday there was another cheater I played against that was aim botting and speed hacking like crazy (although that one was easy to notice). This is the cancer of this game, that and matchmaking. IMO you can't reliably hit a disguised deceiver (during his invisibility) but I'm here to ask you guys if you think it's possible with practice, and if so, what are the signs (yeah yeah yeah I can hear footsteps, but to be able to aim a sticky grenade at a disguised Deceiver, repeatedly, is another story).


I played over 2k hours on TF2 pubs where spies are totally invisible. Before that I had 3k hours of ET:QW where spies are always visible. At some point you know where they move, hide and when they will strike. You start to move, look around, think a head and shred them...

In nosgoth there is always some kind of cue of the deceiver being present. Youre grunting, you toss dust, some ppl miss the last bit of their cloaking process being even more noticable. Theres also the dust when you get hit, and sound of you being hurt.

So if you dont know the target is distracted, you have to assume you are being seen or your enemy at least being aware of your presence. Even if you stand still.

Many of my actions against deceivers come from guesswork. But due to all the factors above I got a pretty high rate of success on them. "How did you know?" - "Where else should you be? ;)" or "I am in your mind!"

If you face a bolt thrower, you are effectivly uncloaked once you are hit. You make a noise and leave a dust trail with the high rate of fire and large clip. So basically I can spam to detect you and then just chase your ass down. That is a lot harder with other classes and even weapons as the clip will run out likely.


So I guess the answer is: possible. Would be interesting to know the background of said player. And its really time we get to see the demorecording feature implemented.
That all said: I once felt like some dude was also a bit too good. He uploaded his twitch stream (in ****ty quality) but it was enough to see me being totally predictable and that I would have spammed the exact same places. On his profile he also claims to have played CS professional almost a decade ago. Was enough for me to believe it was a legit kill :D

Saturnity
29th Aug 2014, 01:21
Can you really be skilled enough to see an invisible (with disguise, not human form) Deceiver and kill him while he is invisible with any skill, or can't it just be attributed to pure luck or some cheat ? If it happens once, pure luck I'm okay with that, if it happens multiple times, I call this cheating.

Yes. Invis deceivers are really bad at staying undetectable. You can even hear their footsteps as clear as day. It's even possible to flush out invisible tf2 spies pretty easily; deceivers are nothing.

renandroid
29th Aug 2014, 01:47
thats shroud not the same invisible, we are talking about beginning of disguise

Thanks for the correction. :D

Trev1989
1st Sep 2014, 01:53
I've only come across one game with hackers so far, or at least that I know about, and my situation was similar. Every time I came out from behind a wall as a vampire I was shot instantly, despite sticking to the ground and purposely taking routes that would conceal my whereabouts. I felt something was suspicious so I switched to reaver to test it out. Twice I laid down smoke while already hidden around a corner and the person(s) in question ran around and didn't even hesitate to shoot me directly, despite them being in the smoke. Now, I could say it was from dmg tracking, but there were no missed shots and no previous dmg to go off of.

Once the teams switched sides their "skill lvl" drastically dropped. It was also easy to find videos of people using hacks acting in the exact same way as the two people I faced against.

The tough part is proving it. I didn't have a recording software installed so without video proof there isn't anything to be done. Fortunately I've not come across more experiences like this yet. I play on the US servers. Best advice is to get a recording software, I am going to give Open Broadcaster Software a shot, and if you run into this situation again send in the videos to the team.

I understand your frustrations with knowing that you're playing against a cheater but not being able to provide good evidence. I have encountered the same situations myself. It makes me wonder how this development team will handle cheaters, a group that can destroy the population of a game. If they are truly interested in the prosperity of this game, then the developers would be wise to heed the cries of players wanting a better anti-cheat system.

As for now, the only way I know to report cheaters is to alt-tab to my Steam browser, find the player in question (god forbid they have a common name), and report them through that functionality. Otherwise, you cannot do anything ingame. Disappointing, really.

Nemesis777
1st Sep 2014, 03:26
As for now, the only way I know to report cheaters is to alt-tab to my Steam browser, find the player in question (god forbid they have a common name), and report them through that functionality. Otherwise, you cannot do anything ingame. Disappointing, really.
There should be spectator mode and report system to avoid hackusations.. right now you can click at "show player card" in game lobby to view his steam profile. If cheater managed to escape search for his id in log file, so you could later find his account at http://steamidfinder.com/