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View Full Version : Make deaths a negative score



StonedViking
24th Aug 2015, 22:52
Why is this never done in games where k/d is more important then just number of kills?

KaininitePriestess
25th Aug 2015, 03:23
I honestly haven't seen too many people putting much stock into k/d. We look at the overall performance of the player instead of looking at some arbitrary number. Especially since there have been matches where, for whatever reason, someone can do 12,000dmg and be playing an adequate job as a team player but get absolutely no kills because of the way the kill shots are detected.

Kootkha
25th Aug 2015, 06:24
I'm not so sure. Does player make any win rate to team with 14/14 ?
He's doing damage, yes. He even doing kill shots, but is he still so usefull to put him to the first place in the score ? I played ranked today and saw the simillar picture. I was second in tab score with like 9 kills 2 deaths , and another guy with 14/14 was the first, yes, his damage was higher(not much though, the difference was about 3 thousands), but in the end what makes ur team win ? not the damage , but k/d score.

Da_Wolv
25th Aug 2015, 07:50
I'm not so sure. Does player make any win rate to team with 14/14 ?
He's doing damage, yes. He even doing kill shots, but is he still so usefull to put him to the first place in the score ? I played ranked today and saw the simillar picture. I was second in tab score with like 9 kills 2 deaths , and another guy with 14/14 was the first, yes, his damage was higher(not much though, the difference was about 3 thousands), but in the end what makes ur team win ? not the damage , but k/d score.

So what? you get maybe 1 or 2 Gold coins more or less depending on score. That's it.
Ranks do not factor into it, neither does item drop chance.
The way the score is calculated has nothing to do with skill.
One guy can get 4 kills the entire round, but if its a quad kill they count as 10 kills, and he will therefor be ahead of a guy that did 7 and about the same damage.

While I agree that dying could be represented in the score, sometimes you need that one guy that is willing to risk his life to get the kill, especially on vampire if the rest of the team decides that standing on a roof at 200 health is better than dying and getting kills.

Phantomchan
25th Aug 2015, 08:10
Spoiler Alert : Nosgoth is a team game.

I don't even see why you are mad for K/D not having a big influence. K/D isn't everything and shouldn't become big thing in Nosgoth. Someone who even goes 0/6 could have been extremely useful in terms of CC'ing incoming enemies and/or peeling them for their allies, but some people might be 'blind' for this and just disregard it as a bad player feeding and such.

Blackpaw
25th Aug 2015, 08:34
Simple answer here is that in most cases, your death is your team's fault, not yours. (Not all cases, but most cases.) If you don't understand that, you don't understand Nosgoth. Also, sometimes, dying is a role you play on your team (willingly or otherwise); it usually helps your team out.

Vampmaster
25th Aug 2015, 09:48
This is why Player Level and MMR are two separate things. Level mostly represents dedication rather than ability, whereas MMR is intended to measure how well you play as a team. I disagree with the devs that MMR should be worked out purely from W/L ratio though and would be perfectly fine with takedowns and deaths factoring into that somehow, and even showing some sort of performance rating.

Phantomchan
25th Aug 2015, 11:04
This is why Player Level and MMR are two separate things. Level mostly represents dedication rather than ability, whereas MMR is intended to measure how well you play as a team. I disagree with the devs that MMR should be worked out purely from W/L ratio though and would be perfectly fine with takedowns and deaths factoring into that somehow, and even showing some sort of performance rating.
MMR from W/L ratio is really bad I agree.

Also in addition to my previous statement. I would rather see extra bonuses for people who maintain streaks ( 3-5-7 kills without dying etc.) instead of punishing deaths. Although this can also make it worse due to the fact that some people might play uber-safe and care even less for saving/helping allies and such.

Vampmaster
25th Aug 2015, 11:14
MMR from W/L ratio is really bad I agree.

Also in addition to my previous statement. I would rather see extra bonuses for people who maintain streaks ( 3-5-7 kills without dying etc.) instead of punishing deaths. Although this can also make it worse due to the fact that some people might play uber-safe and care even less for saving/helping allies and such.

I've always said takedowns without dying would be better than kills as a factor in MMR. And also, damage absorbed without dying. That's bullets that the enemy has wasted and not killed you or your team. I've seen players deliberately stand in front of a near-dead teammate to save them from getting hit, so a high amount of absorbed damage would indicate that type of thing, provided you didn't get yourself killed in the process.

Harmaatukka
25th Aug 2015, 11:17
This would just encourage more useless rooftop camping summoners and reavers, sentinels that don't land and commit, hit and run deceivers who only focus low health humans and don't return to fights and so on... all the **** that makes vampires lose team fights.

While K/D matters, there are so many other variables that come into play in Nosgoth, that the stat alone has no real value.

One reasonable way to measure skill is to count your Damage per Death where that damage leads to a kill, it makes no difference who gets that kill. But any damage that you do that is healed on a healing station or regenerated is just soft damage that has very little value, or the exact opposite if you took damage yourself that you can't recover from while doing that soft damage.

But even this is just a small piece of the pie that leads to measuring good gameplay. Disables, dodges, distractions, damage/disable soaking, abilities like dominate mind and many, many other things have way more importance than a stupid thing like who hit that last repeater arrow for 67 damage on a vampire. You can have a human, an alchemist for example doing 25k+ damage with 10 deaths and no kills, and the rest of the human team is having great stats because of it.