PDA

View Full Version : Map Idea : Cain's Keep



JP5656
20th Aug 2015, 04:16
I am by no means a map designer. I am a player. I am currently Blood 1 and have put quite a few hours into Nosgoth and there aren’t many maps out right now ( I know it’s beta) but when I play this game I think of its capability to be tense and horrifying as well as a great team based action game. So with that in mind I developed an idea of what kind of map I would want to see come to Nosgoth. Let me know what you think devs and players. I also have a picture of what the map would look like but it doesn't allow me to post picture in the forum.

Map Concept:
Cain’s Keep

Setting: The map is entirely indoors and battle torn leaving open spaces in the ceiling. A concept not yet explored. I have replaced the ideas of the wide open space to tight hall ways, corners, and four central points of the map. As you can see in the poorly drawn picture there is the Court yard, The Hallways, Mess Hall, Dungeon, and Barracks. There is also an area around the keep for vampires to navigate up the keep and into drop points from the ceiling. I am going to go through each area one by one and my vision of it sense I can’t make concept art.

The Mess Hall: Envision yourself entering from the hall way as a human into a wide open space. A grandiose dining hall fit for the old rulers of humanity. In the center of the room rain pours in from the ceiling onto rubble with a chandelier clearly in sight. There are dining tables lined across the room, blood-stained and corpse ridden. The room is dark and only lit by torches as well as the natural lighting of the moon from outside.

The Court Yard: The entrances to the court yard are huge, as if entering the gates to heaven, or in this case Hell. The minute you enter there is an unreliably sized statue of the old king, Cain. He stands a giant among the men and around him is a fence made of wood spikes with a head on the tip of each. Around the fence corpses upon human corpses are stacked like a mountain around the fence, each with a head no where to be found. The courtyard floor is drenched in blood and water as the rain continues to poor down.

The Barracks: How do these vampires sleep? Several bars are attached overhead where the vampires can turn upside down and rest for the day. On the areas where the ceiling has fallen in the bars are noticeable among the rubble. Along the walls are vampire cloaks and clothing that each clan of vampire wears. There are 5 banners hung along the wall which are torn and battered, each represents a clan. It is almost completely dark with no lighting except from the open ceiling. You must rely on sound to survive this area.

The Dungeon: Stairs lead down to the dungeon where you are met with a horrific sight. There are guts and blood all along the cobblestone floor. Each cell is a different story and is barred to keep prisoners in. In the center of it all lies the torture chamber with windows on all sides. There is a single iron chair mounted in the center of it and several devices mounted behind the chair. There are torches on either end of the dungeon and two in the center on either side of the torture chamber door.

The Hallways: The Hallways are the main way of getting around the map and they are the most terrifying part. There is torches lighting it every so often as well as moonlight from the ceiling where rain pours in but other than that it is dark, narrow, and tense. Each corner you turn is the chance of death and every step you take could be your last.
Sound: The normal effects of course are used but there should be an added effect of rain dropping as you pass by it and thunder every so often. Also there should be the sound of footsteps from vampires overhead if they are passing over a human on the keep.

Music: I am a firm believer that every good game can become great with proper music. I hear sharp violins ramping up and building tension then fall off suddenly when you enter into a dark area where you are met only with quiet. Each room should have its own feel and vibe such as you draw closer to the mess hall bass drum starts to slowly kick in until you are in the mess hall and it is at full capacity. SO

Mess Hall: Bass
Dungeons: Marilyn Manson cover : Sweet Dreams (are made of these) instrumental.
Courtyard: Organ
Barracks: Silence
Halls: A violin perhaps that blends with the other instruments as you get closer to the rooms then stops.

Balancing: The map has three foreseeable issues that I can clear up.
1. Tyrant – His charge is very linear and like I said this is a very closed off tight map. However his charge ability has this same effect on certain areas of other maps as well and there are corners to turn and doors to roll into.
2. Sentinel: How does the flying class operate indoors? Very carefully. This class would be very high risk very high reward. They can kidnap a human player and dive up into a hole in the ceiling and drop the human on top of the keep. This requires skill of course but that is the point of the game.
3. Scout: His only true problem would be volley. However there are several places he could use this and get significant damage if done properly. The holes allow sight up and can be thrown to target that area as well as any area in the roof where the vampires may be

In closing Nosgoth needs a new map, an I believe this one may be great to create diversity and that map that everyone gets excited for when it pops up on the loading screen with is close corners combat and terrifyingly intense set up. Dear developers, please let me know what you think and keep up the great work!

Vampmaster
20th Aug 2015, 10:03
Kain's (with a K!) mountain retreat would be better, since that's already in Soul Reaver's concept and is basically the same thing.

Kootkha
20th Aug 2015, 14:38
I would rather more interested to see Uschtenheim as a battlezone in Nosgoth, with a great view on Janos keep.

The_Hylden
20th Aug 2015, 15:09
1. Kain's Retreat is secluded to all in Nosgoth. It's high up in the mountains and is where Kain went to get away from everything. It was left out in SR1, but the only way to have reached it would have been from Raziel gliding to it from the top of the Silenced Cathedral's spire. Humans in Nosgoth should not only not know where it is, they should have no means to reach it. Even if a human could somehow have made the arduous climb, certainly an army would not be able to.

2. Vampires are not shown to sleep, other than we can assume when they enter their state of change (a time of sort of metamorphosis, where they emerge years later with a new gift). They aren't shown to hang from the ceiling and sleep, a la the scene in The Lost Boys. Soul Reaver 1's intro happens very much during the day, as does the entire game to follow. Day or night, fledgling Kain in Blood Omen 1 was on the march. While they've erected smoke stacks to blot out much of the sun, that mostly equals diffusing its light and there is still a lot of it that gets through. Fledgling vampires in Kain's empire are devastated by even this sunlight, while older vampires are only weakened by it, or in the case of Kain and the eldest of them, not hampered by sunlight really at all.

3. Uschtenheim is not known of in this time period. Raziel had never seen it until in Nosgoth's past in Soul Reaver 2. It is shown collapsing in the era after the death of Janos in Soul Reaver 2 and by this time, is probably nothing but indiscernible rubble.

4. The series has always had a Gothic instrumental musical score (with Islamic influences for this period of time), for whatever era via each scenario in the game that it was. Covers by known artists also is something that Nosgoth shouldn't be spending its money on.

5. They've said a new map and class are coming, so my advice is to be patient and wait to see what that will be when they reveal it all.

Kootkha
20th Aug 2015, 15:25
3. Uschtenheim is not known of in this time period. Raziel had never seen it until in Nosgoth's past in Soul Reaver 2. It is shown collapsing in the era after the death of Janos in Soul Reaver 2 and by this time, is probably nothing but indiscernible rubble.



Why does it matter did Raziel know, or not? It was a town, there were people living in it long time ago. Sarafan knew about it. And Kain himself visited it in BO1.

PS more village then town ofc )

The_Hylden
20th Aug 2015, 15:39
(I should clarrify Raziel knows of the tales of Uschtenheim, but doesn't appear to have seen it before)

Raziel is Kain's first born. He was the second in command of the entire empire. If it existed in SR1's era, he's the guy who would know. In Soul Reaver's intro, the last moment Raziel was a vampire before his execution, that was 1,500 years since fledgling Kain visited Uschtenheim. 1,500 years. It's been a few centuries since then. The "quaint hamlet of Uschtenheim" was falling into ruin in the period Raziel eventually first comes upon it, in SR2, which was about 100 years after Kain visited the place. Whatever remained of it would be hard-pressed to exist in this era that Nosgoth is happening, and would not be much of a map to work with anyway.

Also, Janos' Retreat is not viewable from Uschtenheim, and the retreat, even more so than the town, should be complete rubble by now.

ApollosBow
20th Aug 2015, 16:36
1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

Dat Knowledge O_o

Vampmaster
20th Aug 2015, 17:21
(I should clarrify Raziel knows of the tales of Uschtenheim, but doesn't appear to have seen it before)

Raziel is Kain's first born. He was the second in command of the entire empire. If it existed in SR1's era, he's the guy who would know. In Soul Reaver's intro, the last moment Raziel was a vampire before his execution, that was 1,500 years since fledgling Kain visited Uschtenheim. 1,500 years. It's been a few centuries since then. The "quaint hamlet of Uschtenheim" was falling into ruin in the period Raziel eventually first comes upon it, in SR2, which was about 100 years after Kain visited the place. Whatever remained of it would be hard-pressed to exist in this era that Nosgoth is happening, and would not be much of a map to work with anyway.

Also, Janos' Retreat is not viewable from Uschtenheim, and the retreat, even more so than the town, should be complete rubble by now.

The name might have been kept if a new town had been built on the same site. If Raziel knew of it in his own era, it would be a very different place. From looking at some of the more accurate maps, I think the new Zephonim territory might be such a town.

Lord_Aevum
20th Aug 2015, 17:30
Dat Knowledge O_o

If you like his awesome analyses, check through the Legacy of Kain forum (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/forumdisplay.php?f=186) where dat knowledge is abundant :)

GenFeelGood
20th Aug 2015, 18:57
Kain's Keep would be a great location for an installment to the series where Kain returns to the era following the events of Soul Reaver; but for Nosgoth, I think we should stick to locations that center on the vampire clans and human factions.

calypso-694
20th Aug 2015, 22:58
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/legacyofkain/images/f/fd/Nosgoth-Location-Map-SommerdammMarked.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131216193244

ill leave this here...

also...all of the non-highlighted locations are potential maps. and seeing as how areas like Vasserbunde(Melchiah) and possibly Nachtolm(potentially a part of Rahabs land) are vampire controlled, its fair to say that the others would fall under wartime. Sure Raziel might have never seen it in his vampiric lifetime but he did hear the tales of it as did the other Clan Leaders.

its possible that the humans might stumble upon it in trying to get further from the war or find new refuge after the vampires take this area or that. plus if MERIIDIAN the CAPTIAL can get put under siege who is to say that Willendorf (would love to see that map) or Uschtenheim might as well.

The Hylden is always on point BUT this IS Nosgoth, and the stuff the crew have created and added to the lore is pretty good so far and very much keeping with canon so...I have no worries that if Uschtenheim does come about it wont be just to throw it in there as an area.

YES most of the towns when Raziel emerged from the the abyss were destroyed and no longer standing or even a trace of them left but this is hundreds of years before all that...I had an ending but lost it.

Kootkha
21st Aug 2015, 00:55
(I should clarrify Raziel knows of the tales of Uschtenheim, but doesn't appear to have seen it before)

Raziel is Kain's first born. He was the second in command of the entire empire. If it existed in SR1's era, he's the guy who would know. In Soul Reaver's intro, the last moment Raziel was a vampire before his execution, that was 1,500 years since fledgling Kain visited Uschtenheim. 1,500 years. It's been a few centuries since then. The "quaint hamlet of Uschtenheim" was falling into ruin in the period Raziel eventually first comes upon it, in SR2, which was about 100 years after Kain visited the place. Whatever remained of it would be hard-pressed to exist in this era that Nosgoth is happening, and would not be much of a map to work with anyway.

Also, Janos' Retreat is not viewable from Uschtenheim, and the retreat, even more so than the town, should be complete rubble by now.

Well, ok vamps did not know about Ushtenheim (or only Raziel). But Sarafn knew! There were stories of Janos preyed on people there, in SR2 we can see stained-glass window in the cathedral with mentioning this story. So the humans new about it. We can suggests that in this era, in this war it was used like a secret humans hideout or baze.

And also, I thought that Janos' Retreat in visible from Ushtenheim, it's like above it in mountains, it could be placed like a background on this map. Nevertheless I should relaunch SR2 to see was it visible or not)

KaininitePriestess
21st Aug 2015, 03:21
Yeah, I'll leave the debate about the map locations themselves to the fine folks already having the discussion, but I'll add my voice to the one that already said "nooo" to "marilyn manson." That style of music has never really fit in with the style of LoK, to the point that in retrospect, the trailers for Defiance that had heavy metal set to them are awkward and hilarious (in a fun nostalgia sort of way, 'cause I still loved them at the time) but as well, the games never really relied on "modern" music, especially not '80's rock styles. Or '80's rock covered as '90's goth metal.

Don't have anything against those styles, just that they don't fit in with LoK at all.

Kootkha
21st Aug 2015, 05:53
Yeah, I'll leave the debate about the map locations themselves to the fine folks already having the discussion, but I'll add my voice to the one that already said "nooo" to "marilyn manson." That style of music has never really fit in with the style of LoK, to the point that in retrospect, the trailers for Defiance that had heavy metal set to them are awkward and hilarious (in a fun nostalgia sort of way, 'cause I still loved them at the time) but as well, the games never really relied on "modern" music, especially not '80's rock styles. Or '80's rock covered as '90's goth metal.

Don't have anything against those styles, just that they don't fit in with LoK at all.

Agreed. More suitable music is kind of "dead can dance" or smth even more epic and tense.

GrayPhilosophy
21st Aug 2015, 07:07
Whether it'd be Kain's keep, his mountain getaway or something else entirely. The map concept sounds pretty awesome, and I'd love to see some more interior design :)

Bazielim
21st Aug 2015, 09:35
Well, ok vamps did not know about Ushtenheim (or only Raziel). But Sarafn knew! There were stories of Janos preyed on people there, in SR2 we can see stained-glass window in the cathedral with mentioning this story. So the humans new about it. We can suggests that in this era, in this war it was used like a secret humans hideout or baze.

And also, I thought that Janos' Retreat in visible from Ushtenheim, it's like above it in mountains, it could be placed like a background on this map. Nevertheless I should relaunch SR2 to see was it visible or not)

I think the point Hylden was trying to make was that the second in command in a world conquering empire had never been to the place and only heard tales of it. Therefore it didn't exist at the time of that empire and was likely reduced to rubble before then. The Sarafan order ceased some millenia before the war for Nosgoth, so that they knew about it is kind of irrelevant as we knew it was standing when they were around.

In regards to SR2, Janos retreat is not visible from Uschtenheim. In SR2 as in BO1 Uschtenheim is a village in a mountain canyon - you can't see beyond the cliff edges. In addition Janos's retreat is also in a protected canyon surrounded by cliffs. Neither can be seen from outside their respective canyons.

Kootkha
21st Aug 2015, 11:50
I played it so long ago, mb it's an illusion I have that Janos retreat was visible from the cliff right near the village.
Nevertheless, Ushtenheim was known not only by Sarafan, but also by mercenaries Moebius hired, but it stayed unreachable for them perhapse. As I said, the stained-glass window in the cathedral where Raziel appears at SR2 was not only at 1 era.

Anyway I think it is quite a possible idea to make Ushtenheim battle map in Nosgoth. It's humans rebellion, yes. But we playing not war. 4x4 it's not a war itself , it's more like diversion fightings. It's possible a few humans knew abou abandoned Ushtenheim and claim it's like rebellion base, its possible that small punitive expedition of vamps found it...

I would rather been exited to play in such significant and historical place. U not?

KaininitePriestess
22nd Aug 2015, 08:29
Agreed. More suitable music is kind of "dead can dance" or smth even more epic and tense.

Ohhh, man, that's a band I hadn't thought of in a long time! I concur!

Also, Beats Antique. The LoK has so much influence from Middle Eastern and Indian art and culture, Beats Antique's stuff has always reminded me really strongly of the franchise.