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julietxjules
11th Aug 2015, 13:56
Note: this thread includes detailed information of important events and characters featured in Life Is Strange. If you are new to Life is Strange, or have yet to play it, then maybe you would rather discover and experience this world for yourself through normal game play. That being the case, then I strongly urge you not to read the contents of this thread.

Before reading on there are a couple of points I would like known. Like most people who began playing Life Is Strange upon its debut release, I immediately found myself being sucked into the mystery in such a way that I could not stop thinking about it, each and every minute of every passing day my mind would wander around Arcadia Bay in the search for clues with a hope to achieve some level of enlightenment which would quell or satisfy my need to know more. I began developing my own theories that, to my way of thinking made sense to me. However, I soon realised that no matter what train of thought I initialised and went down, there existed a multitude of pitfalls that were cunningly lying in wait to jump up and bite me just when I thought I had something! This trend continued until I finally had to hold my hands up and admit: ok, Dontnod - you got me good and proper! From that moment onward I mentally disengaged formulating theories and was now quite content to wait for the next installment and let the game show me instead.

But this didn't entirely work as well as I hoped it would. One cannot simply just turn off or away from something that has already seeded itself in the mind and taken root. However, I did find - with the aid of some self determined willpower, that I could manage it better than the time when it totally dominated my waking consciousness by assigning certain moments of the day to ponder the big questions. This at least, I was successful in doing.

In all honesty, I have no clear all encompassing theory (well I do, but none of them are what I would call complete enough to share) that ties everything up into a neat explained bundle to resolve the mystery surrounding Arcadia Bay. So, written down below are a collection of thoughts - some new, some longer standing, but all of them are more question related than theory driven. I would not necessarily call them random thoughts - more like sticky-toffee-thoughts that glue themselves to the roof of the mind and are hard to budge or loosen, but encourage the thinking process nonetheless because of their long lasting, addictively sweet, moreish flavour. . .

The ending becomes the beginning; the beginning becomes the ending. At last, the possible reasons or reason why Max found herself waking up near the lighthouse amid a hail of rain and thunder during the Friday storm is starting to make more sense - well, a little more sense at least; there is still much unanswered. The dominant question that makes itself known here of course, is whether or not it was Jefferson himself who dumped Max near the lighthouse after he had drugged her and done who knows what with her - perhaps it is best left to the imagination, but even the imaginary world can be a frightening place because it is indicative of reality itself. But why would he do such a thing? Does the drug that has been used countless times before have mind altering properties that induces amnesia in the people it is used on? It certainly had this effect on Kate leaving her with just trace memories of what actually befell her. But it is the very fact that a trace memory exists at all that begs the question as to why the perpetrator/s would be clumsy enough to leave themselves open to discovery and thus leading to justice being so rightly served upon them.

According to events as seen in "Chrysalis," when Max reaches the lighthouse after being guided there by the ethereal doe, a boat slams into the dome of the lighthouse and it falls down toward her standing position. Max then finds herself in Jefferson's classroom where he is halfway through conducting his lesson. Max has no idea what just happened to her and is freaked out to say the least. So is this the amnesic effect of the drug taking hold of her? In addition to the previous event mentioned above, is time about to loop and repeat itself when Max, again, reaches the lighthouse? The game began five days into the future which is highly suggestive that Max had rewound or looped back to the point in Jefferson's classroom; is this how Max gets to undo things and perhaps save Chloe from a gunshot to the head?

(Author's note: Yes . . .a bit "Groundhog Day" sounding, I know.)

But in order for her to be able to do that she will need all of her memory intact, but it is a given that Max had no memory as to how she came to wake up near the lighthouse in the first place. So something will have to change when she wakes up again for her to remember why she is there. In other words, is Max about to relive the past five days but with her memory partially or completely restored because it is the second time around? Max - as we all know - cannot move forward in time, only backwards, so anything she tries to alter will have to be in the past but, this time around it will be a selective past which she has retained knowledge of. She has already made the five day leap backwards so it is purely a matter for her to remember how she managed to accomplish this feat; there is no evidence to suggest that she used a photograph either, (at that point she had no idea it was possible for her to do) so it will be very interesting to see how the lighthouse scene, in actuality, plays out.

The perplexity and inescapable universal ubiquitous paradox (that was a mouthful) that theoretical time travel exposes is very confusing to say the least and, right here and now I am unable to predict what the ultimate outcome or ending will be. This is not by any means a new idea or theory - but rather a set of unanswered questions awash in complexity that I, as a player of Life Is Strange, have long been pondering on. The answer needs to be a simple one which ties everything together in a neat bundle, but because of the multitude of existing variables it continues to remain completely hidden and eludes any reasoning which I apply to it.

The second big question is why these physical violations or liberties on young women are taking place and what exactly is the true purpose behind it all? On the surface it seems purely to satisfy the personal sexual fetish of a predator or stalker, but there must be something more significant lying hidden underneath; something that has driven the need to continue with these awful atrocities for as long as it has. According to the red binders found in the dark room there have been many other victims in the past, and all of them were probably students at Blackwell - although that is not an established fact, more like a logical deduction. Max has discovered, if my memory serves, that over the years there has only been four other incidents of people reported as missing in Arcadia Bay and none of them seem to be related to the dark events now surrounding Blackwell.

It is probably safe to say that all the victims of the past, after regaining their liberty, went about their everyday lives wondering how they could get so wasted at a Vortex Club party to such a degree that they would suffer partial memory loss! It is almost a perfect system with which to operate in for Jefferson and whoever else is involved, but nothing can reach a state of perfection; there are always flies in the ointment and once such fly was Rachel Amber. I had long suspected - no, believed - that Rachel was dead and the grisly confirmation of this thought came when Max and Chloe unearthed her rotting corpse at the junkyard. So what went wrong or happened with Rachel that resulted in her having to be so coldly murdered? Reportedly, Rachel was considered as being way too cool to join any club; let alone the Vortex Club, and as far as we know - for the want of more evidence - all the victims attended a previous Vortex Club party; this being the mechanism where the hapless victim was doped, kidnapped, then transported off to the confines of the dark room. So was Rachel regarded as a special case separate from all the others? She was definitely photographed after being bound with duct tape and in one of the pictures she appears to be wide awake, undrugged, but furious looking. So she was well aware of what was happening to her and maybe she had some knowledge of the other victims as well and therefore threatened to expose the whole disgusting operation? Whichever way you look at it the fact remains that she now knew too much and had to be silenced. In another picture we see her in a drugged state probably just before she was murdered and Nathan Prescott looked to be the main instigator and driving force behind it all. So just how deep does Nathan's role in this whole seedy affair go?

The day that followed after Max and Chloe took a dip in Blackwell's indoor swimming pool, Max decided that her clothes were just too rank to wear so Chloe gave her some clothes that belonged to Rachel. When Max encountered Nathan inside the Two Whales Diner wearing said clothes, and for the briefest of moments, Nathan thought that it was Rachel standing over him at the table. The expression and reaction of Nathan in those brief moments before actual recognition took place was of genuine surprise and joy and not the reaction of someone who had insider knowledge of Rachel's demise - or indeed the reaction of a person who had committed the crime and thought they had just seen a ghost! So this scene inside the diner revealed two things about Nathan: he considered Rachel as missing, and knew nothing of her death. That is how it appears at least but, he is most definitely involved on some level - knowingly or otherwise.



* * *


There was a time, way back at the beginning that the concept and lore of animal spirit guides was firmly introduced and established, both visually, when the doe was sighted guiding Max at the lighthouse, and orally, when Max had conversations about it with Samuel. This gave birth to the idea that maybe something supernatural was afoot and responsible for all the unexplained events occurring in Arcadia Bay and that everything that had begun to happen was a direct result of an ethereal force making a claim upon the local area; it also gave suggestion that perhaps, Max's rewind power was somehow linked to it. And in addition to the mystical; there is the Tobanga Totem, a mysterious relic from a past or still existing culture which is planted in the grounds just outside the girls' dorm; no one at Blackwell seems to know how, why, or when it got placed there, but there it proudly sits.

Apart from the sightings of the ghostly doe many more examples of the animal itself have been strategically placed here and there to reinforce the idea of an animal spirit guide. Inside Max's journal there is a drawn picture of a doe. On the wall inside the ladies toilets at the diner there is a picture of a doe cunningly placed adjacent to some graffiti about Rachel. There are various wildlife posters some of which have pictures of a doe on them. Max wears a top which has a doe printed on it and underneath the picture there are two words "Jane Doe." Now this was a curious discovery to say the least; apart from being a placeholder for persons unknown and, in keeping with the thematic element of death within the game itself, it's most common usage, or most widely recognised use is when reference is made to a corpse (female in this case) of unknown identity.

When Max gets to rummage round in Chloe's house many more examples can be seen all relating to deer in general. Inside the garage there is a trophy head of a deer hanging on the wall; a trophy that Madsen himself had won on a previous hunt. There is also a framed photographic picture, most likely of Madsen, hanging on the wall of the lounge which shows him kneeling down next to a felled deer. The picture, including the trophy head, can be seen as a direct representation - or metaphor if preferred - of Madsen becoming the new head of the Price family household; the hunter claims his prize and is crowned as the new king. The reason that the doe relates to the deceased William is simply because the snow globe that Max finds or breaks in Chloe's room once belonged to him, and contained inside the globe there stands a cute little doe; here is an undeniable link - albeit a tenuous one to William and the doe. The snow globe also served as a portent for the freak snow storm in Arcadia Bay.

Now, how this relates or ties in to the bigger picture is unclear. For something to make its thematic presence known so strongly earlier on in the game, it somewhat trailed off to nothing in episode three, "Chaos Theory." If memory serves, the doe as an entity was not seen at all throughout the entire episode. In episode four, "Dark Room," the doe made one completely unexpected appearance near the end of the game after Max and Chloe finally discovered the fate of Rachel Amber and found her rotting corpse at the junkyard. For a brief moment, as the camera goes wide and pans back, the ghostly doe appears and watches proceedings until it vanishes again into thin air. Although it was the briefest of sightings it could prove to be the most significant out of them all, but the message contained is a mixed, confused one leading to even more ambiguity surrounding it. So, does the doe relate to William? Does the doe relate to Rachel? Whether or not it actually relates to either them and, using an appropriate photographic term to describe this shrouded mystery: the picture is blurred! But, there is a highly suggestive thematic link here because both of them are dead.

Regardless of what the true purpose and inclusion of the doe means to the story overall and, given the fact that it has been so firmly implanted in the consciousness of everyone playing the game, there will have to be a resolution come episode five to give answer to each and every question there has ever been concerning it. Now whether or not it does indeed turn out to be a spirit guide to Max, or a spiritual representative of a dead person; a harbinger of death in general, or something related to tribal lore; expectations - well mine at least - will be at a fever pitch to find out exactly what it is. One of my early ideas about the doe when viewed as a spirit guide and how it possibly relates to Max can be read here. (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=155348)



* * *


The one aspect with this game which keeps building and building until it starts to stack up to an alarmingly overwhelming degree are all the questions raised upon playing through each subsequent episode after release. It reminds me of a long dark tunnel with just a small pin prick of light visible in the distance at the other end, and no matter how far you travel through this tunnel you never quite manage to make enough progress to make this pin prick of light become nearer or any bigger - there are times when you think it is indeed getting bigger, but when you look again you're right back to where you started. So it would seem that despite all your efforts you can never travel farther enough and all is a futile, wasted effort.

The above analogy brings to mind poor Chloe and, as I see it, her unavoidable fate. Now, before continuing I want to make something crystal clear to everyone reading this and thus remove any ambiguity about my own feelings. Despite her moods swings and her sometimes less than savoury selfish behaviour, I like Chloe and would not want to see any permanent harm come to her as a character but, I have long held the notion that Chloe lives on borrowed time. In the strictest sense - technically speaking, she should already be dead but as we all know, after the incident in the girls' toilets and, one rewind later, this is not at all the case. Ever since that moment when she was freed from the clutches of the Grim Reaper, Chloe has courted death like some long lost lover she has found and doesn't ever want to lose again! An exaggerated example maybe, but the point is made clear.

Chloe, then, is reunited with a childhood friend but little does she realise that from henceforth her fate has become entwined with Max's ability and her timeliness to be there when death creeps up from behind and taps her on the shoulder. And either by design or accident death did indeed tap her on the shoulder twice in "Out of Time" at the junkyard.

Thankfully Max was there to put things right again. . .or should that be written inversely, as in; put things wrong again?

In episode three: "Chaos Theory," Chloe, for all intents and purposes and, for the time being at least was relatively free from the threat of the stalking Mr. Death and it began to look as though she might just survive all the while her guardian angel was with her; hope was kindled. The sun may shine brightly in Arcadia Bay filling every nook and cranny with its brilliant light, but if it were not for light there would be no shadows to cast. By the episode's end some home truths about Rachel were found in Frank's RV and the darkness had once again descended upon Chloe; its long fingered tentacles of black depression were rapping themselves tightly around her. Back in her dorm room, while quietly reflecting on the day's events, Max studies an old photograph of her and Chloe which Joyce had given to her and, after the discovery of a talent she was not aware of, Max travels back five years with the aid of said photograph and finds herself in Chloe's house at a time just before her father, William, dies. In a desperate bid to once and for all alter Chloe's life for the better she hides William's car keys to prevent his fatal accident and suggests that he should take the bus instead.

Mission accomplished!?

Max has just altered the past and is magically transported to an alternate Blackwell Academy amid members of the Vortex Club. Not knowing what she has really achieved Max hops on a bus that will take her to Chloe's house in the alternate reality she has just created.

"Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true."

Despite all her good intentions Max soon discovers that this new reality is not all sunshine and roses like she expected. The beach is littered with the dead! But things are about to take a turn for the worse when Max sees with her own eyes exactly why altering time can have dire consequences. William is alive and well. Chloe is alive, but not well; she is a cripple and wheelchair bound.

Come episode four: "Dark Room," Max learns that Chloe is slowly wasting away and dying through complications with her failing respiratory system; a result of her - role reversal - motoring accident and it is a mere matter of time before this complication eventually kills her. So death has followed and caught up with Chloe in the alternate reality as if by the attraction of invisible magnetic forces which emanate from the very fabric of her being; fate will not be denied or cheated, so it would appear. In an unexpected turn of events Chloe asks Max to commit euthanasia and end her pointless existence because, after all, she is dying anyway so why not do it now? It is inevitable and she would prefer an old friend do it rather than anyone else.

With this terrible choice directly in front of her, and in a darkly poignant, emotionally charged moment, Max realises that this reality cannot be allowed to continue; it is too heartbreaking too deal with and therefore William must die again in order to reset the timeline to as it was before she made this tragic mistake. It is ironic that Max, Chloe's perceived saviour, is given the option to be her killer and thus become a murderer through an act of kindness, but regardless of what choice is made the timeline will be reset.

Chloe Price did indeed pay the price when Max meddled with time.

Before leaving this alternate reality it is worth questioning why the alternate Rachel Amber is also missing just like her counterpart is in the unaltered timeline. This is a delicious, deeply curious thing indeed and because so much mystery still surrounds Rachel Amber, it is a matter more for conjecture or theory than anything else. So who, or what in Arcadia Bay is powerful enough to transcend the effects of Max's ability to alter, and therefore change reality and the course of history? The game did not allow us to explore the alternate reality to any degree other than how it related solely to the Price family, so it naturally left this question concerning Rachel's disappearance dangling in the air. It also comes to light that in this alternate reality Chloe never met Rachel; their lives from five years back took on a completely different course.

There is a relative link here between the two of them regarding both their fates. If it is indeed true that Chloe is destined to die and remain dead (the jury is officially still out) then altering the timeline ultimately made no difference to this supposed outcome. And the same can be applied to Rachel in the sense that although the timeline has changed she is still missing and must also be presumed as dead. For me, in my mind, this question regarding Rachel is the biggest question that the game has posed so far. The reason is simple - I am sure, but for the time being it is another of those closely guarded secrets.



* * *


I had a question, a thought which began way back after I played through episode one and It has never really gone away. It is a sticky-toffee-thought, just like those I described near the start of this thread. The question was one of colour, namely blue, and how it is used in the game and the existing possibility that it serves as a portent; a marker of things to come, or at least a conceptual idea. The idea itself resolves absolutely nothing at all when held up against the bigger picture, but it does demonstrate that perhaps they have connections in a thematic sense. In episode four Max found something in the alternate reality (example two below) which stirred the pot again making me think that it actually does have real significance.


Back where it all started, Just before the moment came when Max discovered she could rewind time and, after ripping apart an unwanted photograph, a blue butterfly flew down from an open window in the girls' toilet. Max took the offered photo opportunity and captured an image of it. The colour of the room where this event took place was also blue. At the end of this thread I will propose a tantalising idea concerning this event.
The alternate version of Chloe also has a picture of a blue butterfly.
Chloe's hair is a bold shade of blue.
There is a photograph of Rachel Amber which shows a blue drop earring hanging from her left ear.
Chloe's house is painted blue; unfinished in normal reality, but complete in the alternate reality.
Kate Marsh wears a pale blue garment underneath her blouse. This is a reason for this that I will explain why in a little while.


The one thing that became abundantly clear when I began to gather all these elements together is that all the people listed are either dead, were dead, or have been in a potentially lethal situation which Max has intervened in and altered the outcome. So blue in this particular case is representative of a marker for death or, when considering the butterfly effect itself, is representative of change. In a mystical sense both death and change are interchangeable meaning that essentially they are the same thing. And there is a strong tendency toward mysticism running through this game.

In Rachel's case her stand out blue earring is self explanatory in what it actually means, she is dead. The one thing that may prove important is when she actually died.

In Chloe's case; the blue marker is directly representative of change resulting from the butterfly effect which began in the girls' toilets. The change has meant that Chloe has escaped on many occasions from an imminent death, but because of the interchangeability factor death still stalks her wherever she goes. A good example of this is seen in the alternate reality where, although not dead, Chloe is still marked for death and is slowly dying. And the picture of the blue butterfly is testament to the notion that the forces that be still conspire to kill her and have indeed followed her there. It would appear that there is no let-up or escape for Chloe. And as we all have seen, the Grim Reaper finally cornered his long sought after prey.

Kate Marsh is slightly outside of this thematical notion simply because it is possible to alter her fate - as in reaching a debatable, permanent state of change. It is almost as if her blue under garment, which is obscured but visible, can be likened to that of the question mark which hung over her fate in episode two; she stood on a knife edge and the balance could tip either way and at that time, like her under garment, it wasn't at all clear.

As for Chloe's house. In the normal timeline it is in a semi-finished state simply because William died so could never finish what he had started and that Madsen did not take up the slack! In the alternate timeline the house painting is complete because William is alive. But there is something else to consider here relating to my idea of blue being thematic. For one thing, the house could have been painted in any colour, but from the entire spectrum of choice available blue was the chosen one. In the normal timeline a change did occur; William died. And in this example with the painting incomplete, it is in an unresolved state of change just as Chloe's life is at the moment. In the alternate timeline and with the butterfly effect applied, change has reached a full resolution, a conclusion if you like and, one life has given way to another simply because it is trying to restore the balance.

I will interrupt myself at this point because a similar thematic thread can also be found regarding Mark Jefferson which is worth a mention. He has a penchant for black & white photographs - it is known that he has taken several. He once told Max, in his role as teacher, to frame the world as only she sees it. Useful advice I am sure, but that statement has a direct bearing on Jefferson himself. The frames of his glasses which he wears are black and white; black lens holders, white stems. So are his glasses a visual representation of how he sees the world? Everything is black and white with no grey areas! Psychologically speaking this would suggest a single-minded, self determined confidence.

Well so much for my sticky-toffee-thoughts!



* * *


And so to conclude this thread with an idea I have had for the longest time. It has been the stickiest of my sticky-toffee-thoughts even before Chloe died, although anyone who has read my previous posts will know that I have always suspected that Chloe would die at some point. But know that she has this idea I have still fits in perfectly well. I am willing to accept that what I am about to write below is totally and utterly a complete nonsense but, it is definitely an extremely tantalising notion in the sense of its overriding simplicity. I like simplicity.

So. . .

Is there a realistic way for Max to bring the now dead Chloe back but in a permanent state: outside of the butterfly effect itself and finally be rid of it? There is, but it is highly dependent on two things. Firstly; Max's ability to remember both past and future events, and secondly; whether or not it is a real possibility that it can actually work. There are two scenarios; two avenues of approach; only one road can be taken, but the end result is exactly the same.

Scenario one: Time Loop option

Max wakes up during the storm and finds herself at the lighthouse with no memory as to how she came there. She heads up to it and just as before, she sees the doe, and the boat hits the lighthouse dome and falls down towards her. In a reflex action Max rewinds back to Jefferson's classroom - back to the start again. After collecting her thoughts and going through the same things as before, the lesson ends and Max heads to the girls' toilets for solitude. When inside, Max goes through the same motions as before, that is until the butterfly enters the room from the open window. Max sees the butterfly and in a déj*-vu moment the memory of the past, or future in this case, is triggered. In one flashing moment, just like the photo montage seen when Max altered William's destiny, she sees the future events which are to come. With this sudden and shocking realisation rushing into her consciousness, Max can either hit the alarm as she did before, or run out of the toilets to prevent what she now knows is about to happen from ever happening in the first place.

Scenario two: Non Time Loop option

Max wakes up during the storm and finds herself at the lighthouse with no memory as to how she came there. From here on in the road diverges and as I mentioned, is highly dependent of her ability to remember what has already transpired. In all honesty I am at a loss to see how Max successfully retrieves her memory at this point, but this will need to happen anyway if Max has any hope of solving the Arcadian mystery. I see two possibilities. A trigger that serves as a reminder, or the drug that has been used on her wears off and does not have the desired effect like it has had on previous victims - resulting in her memory slowly returning to normal and completely intact.

Max, in her mind's eye, now relives the moment when Chloe got shot and killed. What is she to do about it? Can she in fact do anything about it at all - is it too late? And how is she going to break the news to Joyce? What an awful scenario, I shudder at the thought.

But wait a moment! Do I still have that photograph which Warren took on the night of the Vortex Club party? It wouldn't matter if I did or not because it is not going to work. But why Max, why? Because it will only serve as a temporary plug in a cracked basin, a defective bung that will eventually leak the contents it is trying to contain, the water will leak out and everything will be back to square one again - the butterfly effect will still be active. So how am I ever going to be able to shut it down for good? The toilets Max! The girls' toilets! Do you remember? You took a picture of the butterfly which flew in through the open window. But that photo does not include an image of me, I am not there! Ah, but you are Max, you are! There is a clear reflection of you on the bucket, is it not at least worth a try? But I gave that picture to Chloe in exchange for William's old camera, the picture was in Chloe's wallet and I don't know where she is. You will need to find her Max and check for the photo. Look in Chloe's room as well, there is chance that it might be there. Find Chloe, Max!

Ha! Sorry about the amateur dramatics, but I am sure you get the idea.

So with the idea that I started on this thread: the ending becomes the beginning, and the beginning becomes the ending; the possible significance of that very first photograph comes sharply into focus. From this point onwards it has to be accepted that Max finds Chloe and the photograph. Max works her mojo and finds herself once again in the girls' toilets at the point just before Nathan enters. She now has the same options as in scenario one. Whichever one she chooses to do is of no importance, but what is important is that Max must not use her rewind ability for any reason whatsoever! It is an identical situation to that of Kate and her suicide bid. Max lost her powers and had to try and save Kate with nothing more than her own humanity, and so it must be here, too.

Mission accomplished!? I know. . .it's all very paradoxical, but when dealing with time travel the two go hand in hand.

Max has now prevented the single defining moment that has caused so much trouble to her, and of course to Chloe, from ever happening. The difference now is that Max has foreknowledge of all the other events to come and will be well prepared for them when they do. But essentially, the timeline has been reset to as it should be and everything is normal again - except the darkness of Blackwell Academy and of course, the Prescotts; those particular problems still need to be addressed.

There is another question this scenario throws up. Is there a glimmer of a hope, does the possibility exist that Rachel Amber can be saved? Well this would depend entirely on the date she actually died and not when she went missing. In my heart of hearts I find it very doubtful that the living version of Rachel Amber will be seen in Arcadia Bay before the game's end.

Well that's it! My last, long post before the big finale. What is going to happen? How is it all going to turn out? Will it be for the betterment of all concerned? In truth, I have absolutely no idea.

J J

StrangerThanFiction
11th Aug 2015, 15:02
I don't know what to think anymore! So many possibilities. But I have the same thoughts for one theory. (3 incomplete theories swarm in my head. They don't seem to want to complete themselves.)


Brilliant as always J J! Your theories are like Chicken Soup for the Soul.

julietxjules
11th Aug 2015, 15:08
I don't know what to think anymore! So many possibilities. But I have the same thoughts for one theory. (3 incomplete theories swarm in my head. They don't seem to want to complete themselves.)


Brilliant as always J J! Your theories are like Chicken Soup for the Soul.

Aw thanks. In truth though I was really hoping that rather than tasting like chicken soup, there would be a definite overriding flavour of toffee instead! But heck! I like chicken soup too.

LordBattleBeard
11th Aug 2015, 22:57
The ending becomes the beginning; the beginning becomes the ending. At last, the possible reasons or reason why Max found herself waking up near the lighthouse amid a hail of rain and thunder during the Friday storm is starting to make more sense - well, a little more sense at least; there is still much unanswered. The dominant question that makes itself known here of course, is whether or not it was Jefferson himself who dumped Max near the lighthouse after he had drugged her and done who knows what with her - perhaps it is best left to the imagination, but even the imaginary world can be a frightening place because it is indicative of reality itself. But why would he do such a thing? Does the drug that has been used countless times before have mind altering properties that induces amnesia in the people it is used on? It certainly had this effect on Kate leaving her with just trace memories of what actually befell her. But it is the very fact that a trace memory exists at all that begs the question as to why the perpetrator/s would be clumsy enough to leave themselves open to discovery and thus leading to justice being so rightly served upon them.I absolutely find this both likely and probable. I don't however think that Jefferson was the one to dump her there. I think its more likely that she escapes but that the drug Jefferson used is still active in her blood stream. Either that or she is actively travelling through photos trying to alter time in a way that prevents the town from being destroyed, and well.. shi- happens and she ends up passed out there :D


According to events as seen in "Chrysalis," when Max reaches the lighthouse after being guided there by the ethereal doe, a boat slams into the dome of the lighthouse and it falls down toward her standing position. Max then finds herself in Jefferson's classroom where he is halfway through conducting his lesson. Max has no idea what just happened to her and is freaked out to say the least. So is this the amnesic effect of the drug taking hold of her? In addition to the previous event mentioned above, is time about to loop and repeat itself when Max, again, reaches the lighthouse? The game began five days into the future which is highly suggestive that Max had rewound or looped back to the point in Jefferson's classroom; is this how Max gets to undo things and perhaps save Chloe from a gunshot to the head?My brain just exploded :hmm:


But in order for her to be able to do that she will need all of her memory intact, but it is a given that Max had no memory as to how she came to wake up near the lighthouse in the first place. So something will have to change when she wakes up again for her to remember why she is there. In other words, is Max about to relive the past five days but with her memory partially or completely restored because it is the second time around? Max - as we all know - cannot move forward in time, only backwards, so anything she tries to alter will have to be in the past but, this time around it will be a selective past which she has retained knowledge of. She has already made the five day leap backwards so it is purely a matter for her to remember how she managed to accomplish this feat; there is no evidence to suggest that she used a photograph either, (at that point she had no idea it was possible for her to do) so it will be very interesting to see how the lighthouse scene, in actuality, plays out.Very possible but awfully confusing for the person playing to wrap their head around in a way that makes complete sense.


The perplexity and inescapable universal ubiquitous paradox (that was a mouthful) that theoretical time travel exposes is very confusing to say the least and, right here and now I am unable to predict what the ultimate outcome or ending will be. This is not by any means a new idea or theory - but rather a set of unanswered questions awash in complexity that I, as a player of Life Is Strange, have long been pondering on. The answer needs to be a simple one which ties everything together in a neat bundle, but because of the multitude of existing variables it continues to remain completely hidden and eludes any reasoning which I apply to it.Indeed. It has to be something that the person playing can easily understand.


The second big question is why these physical violations or liberties on young women are taking place and what exactly is the true purpose behind it all? On the surface it seems purely to satisfy the personal sexual fetish of a predator or stalker, but there must be something more significant lying hidden underneath; something that has driven the need to continue with these awful atrocities for as long as it has. According to the red binders found in the dark room there have been many other victims in the past, and all of them were probably students at Blackwell - although that is not an established fact, more like a logical deduction. Max has discovered, if my memory serves, that over the years there has only been four other incidents of people reported as missing in Arcadia Bay and none of them seem to be related to the dark events now surrounding Blackwell.

It is probably safe to say that all the victims of the past, after regaining their liberty, went about their everyday lives wondering how they could get so wasted at a Vortex Club party to such a degree that they would suffer partial memory loss! It is almost a perfect system with which to operate in for Jefferson and whoever else is involved, but nothing can reach a state of perfection; there are always flies in the ointment and once such fly was Rachel Amber. I had long suspected - no, believed - that Rachel was dead and the grisly confirmation of this thought came when Max and Chloe unearthed her rotting corpse at the junkyard. So what went wrong or happened with Rachel that resulted in her having to be so coldly murdered? Reportedly, Rachel was considered as being way too cool to join any club; let alone the Vortex Club, and as far as we know - for the want of more evidence - all the victims attended a previous Vortex Club party; this being the mechanism where the hapless victim was doped, kidnapped, then transported off to the confines of the dark room. So was Rachel regarded as a special case separate from all the others? She was definitely photographed after being bound with duct tape and in one of the pictures she appears to be wide awake, undrugged, but furious looking. So she was well aware of what was happening to her and maybe she had some knowledge of the other victims as well and therefore threatened to expose the whole disgusting operation? Whichever way you look at it the fact remains that she now knew too much and had to be silenced. In another picture we see her in a drugged state probably just before she was murdered and Nathan Prescott looked to be the main instigator and driving force behind it all. So just how deep does Nathan's role in this whole seedy affair go?Damn. Thats interesting and I can't argue with any of it. I agree that Rachel Amber was a special case and something must have went wrong for her to meet the end that she did. But how do we explain Sean Prescotts involvement? how do his interests meet with Jeffersons?


The day that followed after Max and Chloe took a dip in Blackwell's indoor swimming pool, Max decided that her clothes were just too rank to wear so Chloe gave her some clothes that belonged to Rachel. When Max encountered Nathan inside the Two Whales Diner wearing said clothes, and for the briefest of moments, Nathan thought that it was Rachel standing over him at the table. The expression and reaction of Nathan in those brief moments before actual recognition took place was of genuine surprise and joy and not the reaction of someone who had insider knowledge of Rachel's demise - or indeed the reaction of a person who had committed the crime and thought they had just seen a ghost! So this scene inside the diner revealed two things about Nathan: he considered Rachel as missing, and knew nothing of her death. That is how it appears at least but, he is most definitely involved on some level - knowingly or otherwise. I agree completely with this, not least because it neatly fits my theory of Nathan not being complicit and/or knowing, for reasons I've mentioned before.



There was a time, way back at the beginning that the concept and lore of animal spirit guides was firmly introduced and established, both visually, when the doe was sighted guiding Max at the lighthouse, and orally, when Max had conversations about it with Samuel. This gave birth to the idea that maybe something supernatural was afoot and responsible for all the unexplained events occurring in Arcadia Bay and that everything that had begun to happen was a direct result of an ethereal force making a claim upon the local area; it also gave suggestion that perhaps, Max's rewind power was somehow linked to it. And in addition to the mystical; there is the Tobanga Totem, a mysterious relic from a past or still existing culture which is planted in the grounds just outside the girls' dorm; no one at Blackwell seems to know how, why, or when it got placed there, but there it proudly sits.I strongly suspect that the Totem is a red herring.


Apart from the sightings of the ghostly doe many more examples of the animal itself have been strategically placed here and there to reinforce the idea of an animal spirit guide. Inside Max's journal there is a drawn picture of a doe. On the wall inside the ladies toilets at the diner there is a picture of a doe cunningly placed adjacent to some graffiti about Rachel. There are various wildlife posters some of which have pictures of a doe on them. Max wears a top which has a doe printed on it and underneath the picture there are two words "Jane Doe." Now this was a curious discovery to say the least; apart from being a placeholder for persons unknown and, in keeping with the thematic element of death within the game itself, it's most common usage, or most widely recognised use is when reference is made to a corpse (female in this case) of unknown identity.Interesting. I just thought of it as the commonly used placeholder reference and a clever play on words :hmm: Though what you said makes a lot of sense, and if true, the writers are incredibly clever at finding ways to leave little clues for us behind them.


When Max gets to rummage round in Chloe's house many more examples can be seen all relating to deer in general. Inside the garage there is a trophy head of a deer hanging on the wall; a trophy that Madsen himself had won on a previous hunt. There is also a framed photographic picture, most likely of Madsen, hanging on the wall of the lounge which shows him kneeling down next to a felled deer. The picture, including the trophy head, can be seen as a direct representation - or metaphor if preferred - of Madsen becoming the new head of the Price family household; the hunter claims his prize and is crowned as the new king. The reason that the doe relates to the deceased William is simply because the snow globe that Max finds or breaks in Chloe's room once belonged to him, and contained inside the globe there stands a cute little doe; here is an undeniable link - albeit a tenuous one to William and the doe. The snow globe also served as a portent for the freak snow storm in Arcadia Bay.Damn. If thats true about the dear head and the reason for its placement, thats pretty sick.


Now, how this relates or ties in to the bigger picture is unclear. For something to make its thematic presence known so strongly earlier on in the game, it somewhat trailed off to nothing in episode three, "Chaos Theory." If memory serves, the doe as an entity was not seen at all throughout the entire episode. In episode four, "Dark Room," the doe made one completely unexpected appearance near the end of the game after Max and Chloe finally discovered the fate of Rachel Amber and found her rotting corpse at the junkyard. For a brief moment, as the camera goes wide and pans back, the ghostly doe appears and watches proceedings until it vanishes again into thin air. Although it was the briefest of sightings it could prove to be the most significant out of them all, but the message contained is a mixed, confused one leading to even more ambiguity surrounding it. So, does the doe relate to William? Does the doe relate to Rachel? Whether or not it actually relates to either them and, using an appropriate photographic term to describe this shrouded mystery: the picture is blurred! But, there is a highly suggestive thematic link here because both of them are dead.I strongly, strongly suspect.. believe.. that it relates to Rachel. It just seems to make most sense. Why on would William be resting on Rachels gave in episode 2? (yes it was resting.. it only stands when it notices max's presence).


Regardless of what the true purpose and inclusion of the doe means to the story overall and, given the fact that it has been so firmly implanted in the consciousness of everyone playing the game, there will have to be a resolution come episode five to give answer to each and every question there has ever been concerning it. Now whether or not it does indeed turn out to be a spirit guide to Max, or a spiritual representative of a dead person; a harbinger of death in general, or something related to tribal lore; expectations - well mine at least - will be at a fever pitch to find out exactly what it is. One of my early ideas about the doe when viewed as a spirit guide and how it possibly relates to Max can be read here. (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=155348)It is my belief that the spirit animal is Rachels and is for some unknown reason looking to protect Max.


The one aspect with this game which keeps building and building until it starts to stack up to an alarmingly overwhelming degree are all the questions raised upon playing through each subsequent episode after release. It reminds me of a long dark tunnel with just a small pin prick of light visible in the distance at the other end, and no matter how far you travel through this tunnel you never quite manage to make enough progress to make this pin prick of light become nearer or any bigger - there are times when you think it is indeed getting bigger, but when you look again you're right back to where you started. So it would seem that despite all your efforts you can never travel farther enough and all is a futile, wasted effort.You have a way with words ;)


The above analogy brings to mind poor Chloe and, as I see it, her unavoidable fate. Now, before continuing I want to make something crystal clear to everyone reading this and thus remove any ambiguity about my own feelings. Despite her moods swings and her sometimes less than savoury selfish behaviour, I like Chloe and would not want to see any permanent harm come to her as a character but, I have long held the notion that Chloe lives on borrowed time. In the strictest sense - technically speaking, she should already be dead but as we all know, after the incident in the girls' toilets and, one rewind later, this is not at all the case. Ever since that moment when she was freed from the clutches of the Grim Reaper, Chloe has courted death like some long lost lover she has found and doesn't ever want to lose again! An exaggerated example maybe, but the point is made clear.I couldn't help but notice this too while playing it but hope that we're both wrong. And given that this is a choice based game, our earlier actions might well influence the outcome for Chloe too.


Chloe, then, is reunited with a childhood friend but little does she realise that from henceforth her fate has become entwined with Max's ability and her timeliness to be there when death creeps up from behind and taps her on the shoulder. And either by design or accident death did indeed tap her on the shoulder twice in "Out of Time" at the junkyard.

Thankfully Max was there to put things right again. . .or should that be written inversely, as in; put things wrong again?

In episode three: "Chaos Theory," Chloe, for all intents and purposes and, for the time being at least was relatively free from the threat of the stalking Mr. Death and it began to look as though she might just survive all the while her guardian angel was with her; hope was kindled. The sun may shine brightly in Arcadia Bay filling every nook and cranny with its brilliant light, but if it were not for light there would be no shadows to cast. By the episode's end some home truths about Rachel were found in Frank's RV and the darkness had once again descended upon Chloe; its long fingered tentacles of black depression were rapping themselves tightly around her. Back in her dorm room, while quietly reflecting on the day's events, Max studies an old photograph of her and Chloe which Joyce had given to her and, after the discovery of a talent she was not aware of, Max travels back five years with the aid of said photograph and finds herself in Chloe's house at a time just before her father, William, dies. In a desperate bid to once and for all alter Chloe's life for the better she hides William's car keys to prevent his fatal accident and suggests that he should take the bus instead.

Mission accomplished!?

Max has just altered the past and is magically transported to an alternate Blackwell Academy amid members of the Vortex Club. Not knowing what she has really achieved Max hops on a bus that will take her to Chloe's house in the alternate reality she has just created.

"Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true."

Despite all her good intentions Max soon discovers that this new reality is not all sunshine and roses like she expected. The beach is littered with the dead! But things are about to take a turn for the worse when Max sees with her own eyes exactly why altering time can have dire consequences. William is alive and well. Chloe is alive, but not well; she is a cripple and wheelchair bound.

Come episode four: "Dark Room," Max learns that Chloe is slowly wasting away and dying through complications with her failing respiratory system; a result of her - role reversal - motoring accident and it is a mere matter of time before this complication eventually kills her. So death has followed and caught up with Chloe in the alternate reality as if by the attraction of invisible magnetic forces which emanate from the very fabric of her being; fate will not be denied or cheated, so it would appear. In an unexpected turn of events Chloe asks Max to commit euthanasia and end her pointless existence because, after all, she is dying anyway so why not do it now? It is inevitable and she would prefer an old friend do it rather than anyone else.

With this terrible choice directly in front of her, and in a darkly poignant, emotionally charged moment, Max realises that this reality cannot be allowed to continue; it is too heartbreaking too deal with and therefore William must die again in order to reset the timeline to as it was before she made this tragic mistake. It is ironic that Max, Chloe's perceived saviour, is given the option to be her killer and thus become a murderer through an act of kindness, but regardless of what choice is made the timeline will be reset.

Chloe Price did indeed pay the price when Max meddled with time.So maybe death will be satisfied? ;) Chloe paid the price.. in one time-line and dependent on the play choice taken, at least....................... right?
Given that she was again shot in Episode 4, I guess not.. dammit.


Before leaving this alternate reality it is worth questioning why the alternate Rachel Amber is also missing just like her counterpart is in the unaltered timeline. This is a delicious, deeply curious thing indeed and because so much mystery still surrounds Rachel Amber, it is a matter more for conjecture or theory than anything else. So who, or what in Arcadia Bay is powerful enough to transcend the effects of Max's ability to alter, and therefore change reality and the course of history? The game did not allow us to explore the alternate reality to any degree other than how it related solely to the Price family, so it naturally left this question concerning Rachel's disappearance dangling in the air. It also comes to light that in this alternate reality Chloe never met Rachel; their lives from five years back took on a completely different course.

There is a relative link here between the two of them regarding both their fates. If it is indeed true that Chloe is destined to die and remain dead (the jury is officially still out) then altering the timeline ultimately made no difference to this supposed outcome. And the same can be applied to Rachel in the sense that although the timeline has changed she is still missing and must also be presumed as dead. For me, in my mind, this question regarding Rachel is the biggest question that the game has posed so far. The reason is simple - I am sure, but for the time being it is another of those closely guarded secrets.It was interesting that instead of Chloe knowing Rachel, her alternate friend Megan stopped visiting her and was also listed on one of Jeffersons red folders. She just can't catch a break can she?



I had a question, a thought which began way back after I played through episode one and It has never really gone away. It is a sticky-toffee-thought, just like those I described near the start of this thread. The question was one of colour, namely blue, and how it is used in the game and the existing possibility that it serves as a portent; a marker of things to come, or at least a conceptual idea. The idea itself resolves absolutely nothing at all when held up against the bigger picture, but it does demonstrate that perhaps they have connections in a thematic sense. In episode four Max found something in the alternate reality (example two below) which stirred the pot again making me think that it actually does have real significance.


Back where it all started, Just before the moment came when Max discovered she could rewind time and, after ripping apart an unwanted photograph, a blue butterfly flew down from an open window in the girls' toilet. Max took the offered photo opportunity and captured an image of it. The colour of the room where this event took place was also blue. At the end of this thread I will propose a tantalising idea concerning this event.
The alternate version of Chloe also has a picture of a blue butterfly.
Chloe's hair is a bold shade of blue.
There is a photograph of Rachel Amber which shows a blue drop earring hanging from her left ear.
Chloe's house is painted blue; unfinished in normal reality, but complete in the alternate reality.
Kate Marsh wears a pale blue garment underneath her blouse. This is a reason for this that I will explain why in a little while.


The one thing that became abundantly clear when I began to gather all these elements together is that all the people listed are either dead, were dead, or have been in a potentially lethal situation which Max has intervened in and altered the outcome. So blue in this particular case is representative of a marker for death or, when considering the butterfly effect itself, is representative of change. In a mystical sense both death and change are interchangeable meaning that essentially they are the same thing. And there is a strong tendency toward mysticism running through this game.

In Rachel's case her stand out blue earring is self explanatory in what it actually means, she is dead. The one thing that may prove important is when she actually died.

In Chloe's case; the blue marker is directly representative of change resulting from the butterfly effect which began in the girls' toilets. The change has meant that Chloe has escaped on many occasions from an imminent death, but because of the interchangeability factor death still stalks her wherever she goes. A good example of this is seen in the alternate reality where, although not dead, Chloe is still marked for death and is slowly dying. And the picture of the blue butterfly is testament to the notion that the forces that be still conspire to kill her and have indeed followed her there. It would appear that there is no let-up or escape for Chloe. And as we all have seen, the Grim Reaper finally cornered his long sought after prey.

Kate Marsh is slightly outside of this thematical notion simply because it is possible to alter her fate - as in reaching a debatable, permanent state of change. It is almost as if her blue under garment, which is obscured but visible, can be likened to that of the question mark which hung over her fate in episode two; she stood on a knife edge and the balance could tip either way and at that time, like her under garment, it wasn't at all clear.

As for Chloe's house. In the normal timeline it is in a semi-finished state simply because William died so could never finish what he had started and that Madsen did not take up the slack! In the alternate timeline the house painting is complete because William is alive. But there is something else to consider here relating to my idea of blue being thematic. For one thing, the house could have been painted in any colour, but from the entire spectrum of choice available blue was the chosen one. In the normal timeline a change did occur; William died. And in this example with the painting incomplete, it is in an unresolved state of change just as Chloe's life is at the moment. In the alternate timeline and with the butterfly effect applied, change has reached a full resolution, a conclusion if you like and, one life has given way to another simply because it is trying to restore the balance.I noticed a lot of these things but the way you put them altogether was just brilliant! :)

I think the butterfly drawing and the butterfly itself has particular importance. I'm stuck between thinking the butterfly is William (but then that doesn't explain why he isn't transparent like the Doe) or the butterfly being Chloe who is technically dead in another time line. I'm edging more towards the latter lately.


I will interrupt myself at this point because a similar thematic thread can also be found regarding Mark Jefferson which is worth a mention. He has a penchant for black & white photographs - it is known that he has taken several. He once told Max, in his role as teacher, to frame the world as only she sees it. Useful advice I am sure, but that statement has a direct bearing on Jefferson himself. The frames of his glasses which he wears are black and white; black lens holders, white stems. So are his glasses a visual representation of how he sees the world? Everything is black and white with no grey areas! Psychologically speaking this would suggest a single-minded, self determined confidence.Nice observation. People who see situations in black and white are often the most unreasoned and dangerous.


And so to conclude this thread with an idea I have had for the longest time. It has been the stickiest of my sticky-toffee-thoughts even before Chloe died, although anyone who has read my previous posts will know that I have always suspected that Chloe would die at some point. But know that she has this idea I have still fits in perfectly well. I am willing to accept that what I am about to write below is totally and utterly a complete nonsense but, it is definitely an extremely tantalising notion in the sense of its overriding simplicity. I like simplicity.I think the simplest thought/theory has the most chance of being right given that the finished story has to be something that the average player can understand.


Scenario one: Time Loop option

Max wakes up during the storm and finds herself at the lighthouse with no memory as to how she came there. She heads up to it and just as before, she sees the doe, and the boat hits the lighthouse dome and falls down towards her. In a reflex action Max rewinds back to Jefferson's classroom - back to the start again. After collecting her thoughts and going through the same things as before, the lesson ends and Max heads to the girls' toilets for solitude. When inside, Max goes through the same motions as before, that is until the butterfly enters the room from the open window. Max sees the butterfly and in a déj*-vu moment the memory of the past, or future in this case, is triggered. In one flashing moment, just like the photo montage seen when Max altered William's destiny, she sees the future events which are to come. With this sudden and shocking realisation rushing into her consciousness, Max can either hit the alarm as she did before, or run out of the toilets to prevent what she now knows is about to happen from ever happening in the first place.I really like this theory. Entirely possible, fitting, and easy enough to understand.
But won't Jefferson still be running around terrorising people?


Scenario two: Non Time Loop option

Max wakes up during the storm and finds herself at the lighthouse with no memory as to how she came there. From here on in the road diverges and as I mentioned, is highly dependent of her ability to remember what has already transpired. In all honesty I am at a loss to see how Max successfully retrieves her memory at this point, but this will need to happen anyway if Max has any hope of solving the Arcadian mystery. I see two possibilities. A trigger that serves as a reminder, or the drug that has been used on her wears off and does not have the desired effect like it has had on previous victims - resulting in her memory slowly returning to normal and completely intact.

Max, in her mind's eye, now relives the moment when Chloe got shot and killed. What is she to do about it? Can she in fact do anything about it at all - is it too late? And how is she going to break the news to Joyce? What an awful scenario, I shudder at the thought.

But wait a moment! Do I still have that photograph which Warren took on the night of the Vortex Club party? It wouldn't matter if I did or not because it is not going to work. But why Max, why? Because it will only serve as a temporary plug in a cracked basin, a defective bung that will eventually leak the contents it is trying to contain, the water will leak out and everything will be back to square one again - the butterfly effect will still be active. So how am I ever going to be able to shut it down for good? The toilets Max! The girls' toilets! Do you remember? You took a picture of the butterfly which flew in through the open window. But that photo does not include an image of me, I am not there! Ah, but you are Max, you are! There is a clear reflection of you on the bucket, is it not at least worth a try? But I gave that picture to Chloe in exchange for William's old camera, the picture was in Chloe's wallet and I don't know where she is. You will need to find her Max and check for the photo. Look in Chloe's room as well, there is chance that it might be there. Find Chloe, Max!

Ha! Sorry about the amateur dramatics, but I am sure you get the idea.

So with the idea that I started on this thread: the ending becomes the beginning, and the beginning becomes the ending; the possible significance of that very first photograph comes sharply into focus. From this point onwards it has to be accepted that Max finds Chloe and the photograph. Max works her mojo and finds herself once again in the girls' toilets at the point just before Nathan enters.

She now has the same options as in scenario one. Whichever one she chooses to do is of no importance, but what is important is that Max must not use her rewind ability for any reason whatsoever! It is an identical situation to that of Kate and her suicide bid. Max lost her powers and had to try and save Kate with nothing more than her own humanity, and so it must be here, too.

Mission accomplished!? I know. . .it's all very paradoxical, but when dealing with time travel the two go hand in hand.I completely agree with you. There is no doubt whatsoever that she will end up back in that bathroom. It just makes too much sense and is far to coincidental for her reflection to be in that photo.


Max has now prevented the single defining moment that has caused so much trouble to her, and of course to Chloe, from ever happening. The difference now is that Max has foreknowledge of all the other events to come and will be well prepared for them when they do. But essentially, the timeline has been reset to as it should be and everything is normal again - except the darkness of Blackwell Academy and of course, the Prescotts; those particular problems still need to be addressed.

There is another question this scenario throws up. Is there a glimmer of a hope, does the possibility exist that Rachel Amber can be saved? Well this would depend entirely on the date she actually died and not when she went missing. In my heart of hearts I find it very doubtful that the living version of Rachel Amber will be seen in Arcadia Bay before the game's end.I agree. I don't think we'll see Rachel in her living form.


Well that's it! My last, long post before the big finale. What is going to happen? How is it all going to turn out? Will it be for the betterment of all concerned? In truth, I have absolutely no idea.That was an excellent read. You should be a writer :p
But you officially fried my brain..to whom should I address the bill to? :D

julietxjules
12th Aug 2015, 12:56
That was an excellent read. You should be a writer :p
But you officially fried my brain..to whom should I address the bill to? :D

Oh my! I was not expecting anyone to write such a huge comment/response like you have done, but thinking about it, it does figure I guess - one reaps what one sows! I am somewhat overwhelmed by it all and challenged as to how I can respond to everything!

So for the time being and, given the fact that I have only just read your response in full, I will take a humble posture and must thank you for your ending compliment which touched me and made me realise that perhaps my literary efforts are not in vain after all, but worthwhile.

As for the Arcadian mystery, I am as flummoxed as anyone else is, and that pesky doe continues to evade the spotlight of reason which I have relentlessly tried to shine upon it!

Oh. . .yes, and concerning your fried brain! I have good, reliable information that the Transylvanian Brain Surgery specialise in restoration of the mind; the only problem is finding their actual address - good luck! :D

julietxjules
12th Aug 2015, 14:16
I really like this theory. Entirely possible, fitting, and easy enough to understand.
But won't Jefferson still be running around terrorising people?

Oh, for sure! I did give mention sometime after this paragraph you refer to that Blackwell, and the Prescotts' will still have to be dealt with. I just didn't include naming Jefferson individually but rather collectively as 'the darkness of Blackwell.' I just generalised it.

The difference then being. . .Max will now have foreknowledge of it.

The whole idea in its entirety hinges solely on how the scene at the lighthouse actually plays out. And because, in an absolute sense, no one at this moment can possibly know what will happen there, the mind being what it is tries to fill in the missing gaps.

LordBattleBeard
13th Aug 2015, 03:33
Oh my! I was not expecting anyone to write such a huge comment/response like you have done, but thinking about it, it does figure I guess - one reaps what one sows! I am somewhat overwhelmed by it all and challenged as to how I can respond to everything!

So for the time being and, given the fact that I have only just read your response in full, I will take a humble posture and must thank you for your ending compliment which touched me and made me realise that perhaps my literary efforts are not in vain after all, but worthwhile.I almost didn't because of the length but once I started it was easy to continue and well worth the read.
No problem :)


Oh. . .yes, and concerning your fried brain! I have good, reliable information that the Transylvanian Brain Surgery specialise in restoration of the mind; the only problem is finding their actual address - good luck! :D:lmao:


Oh, for sure! I did give mention sometime after this paragraph you refer to that Blackwell, and the Prescotts' will still have to be dealt with. I just didn't include naming Jefferson individually but rather collectively as 'the darkness of Blackwell.' I just generalised it.

The difference then being. . .Max will now have foreknowledge of it.True and with the knowledge the choice to kill him or hand him over to the cops I guess.. decisions decisions :D


The whole idea in its entirety hinges solely on how the scene at the lighthouse actually plays out. And because, in an absolute sense, no one at this moment can possibly know what will happen there, the mind being what it is tries to fill in the missing gaps.It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of what you've surmised gets proven correct. Just another 5 or so weeks and we'll know for sure :thumb:

julietxjules
13th Aug 2015, 05:43
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of what you've surmised gets proven correct. Just another 5 or so weeks and we'll know for sure :thumb:

Well. . .to let you in on a little secret, I do not care if I am right or wrong. It has been one heck of a good ride so far and I thank the developers for creating such a cerebral adventure and that it has managed to stimulate me like no other game has before.

julietxjules
13th Aug 2015, 17:16
I absolutely find this both likely and probable. I don't however think that Jefferson was the one to dump her there. I think its more likely that she escapes but that the drug Jefferson used is still active in her blood stream. Either that or she is actively travelling through photos trying to alter time in a way that prevents the town from being destroyed, and well.. shi- happens and she ends up passed out there :D

I find it best if I take a while to study your responses and mull them over until I have formulated a pertinent reply - or drip-feed them if you like rather than attempt to do it all at once.

This particular aspect of things to come has many variables the way I see it. The odd thing here is why Jefferson does not simply shoot her and be done with it as he did to Chloe? There is obviously something about Max that appeals and meets the criteria as laid down by Jefferson! Maybe Victoria's file is still empty because she does not fit the model of character that is required to satiate his agenda - meaning, that she is exempt, but given that he awarded the "Everyday Heroes" contest prize to her - it makes me wonder if ultimately, he has other plans in store for her?

Anyway - back to the topic in question.

If Max is so drugged up that she loses all her faculties, then logically it would point to the fact that she will need help to escape from the perverted clutches of Mark Jefferson - either that or she manages to escape after a time when the drug wears off which could in fact be hours or days later, even!

If someone does intervene it may be that the person in question, knowing what is happening, does not want any further involvement or be associated with the situation any longer and thus has no desire to be identified and decides to dump Max near the lighthouse. This idea points in Nathan's direction, or someone that until now is involved but unknown.

If it were a friend or ally it would be reasonable to assume that he or she would stay with Max until such times that she came out of her drugged stupor, but this not the case - she wakes up and is on her own.

Of all the most slippery of problems to try and pin down and resolve, this is certainly the slipperiest. But as you have said, it might be Max who whisks herself to safety, not necessarily at the lighthouse but in the general locale and is able to walk so far until she collapses through exhaustion caused by the drug only to wake up and find herself at the lighthouse proper. Another thing to consider is: at what point in episode five is this scene going to occur? Near the start? In the middle? Or at the end? The start, middle, and end point will all have a direct bearing on how much time remains to accommodate the theories, or my theory at least, to what I think is going to happen - hence why I said that I am willing to concede that my idea would turn out to be total nonsense.

Instinctively I would say that the event in question would occur soon after the start, but as I have already learned, this game is capable of producing an unexpected twist and is likely to jump up and bite you. :mad2:

ET_Red
13th Aug 2015, 22:29
But in order for her to be able to do that she will need all of her memory intact, but it is a given that Max had no memory as to how she came to wake up near the lighthouse in the first place. So something will have to change when she wakes up again for her to remember why she is there. In other words, is Max about to relive the past five days but with her memory partially or completely restored because it is the second time around? Max - as we all know - cannot move forward in time, only backwards, so anything she tries to alter will have to be in the past but, this time around it will be a selective past which she has retained knowledge of. She has already made the five day leap backwards so it is purely a matter for her to remember how she managed to accomplish this feat; there is no evidence to suggest that she used a photograph either, (at that point she had no idea it was possible for her to do) so it will be very interesting to see how the lighthouse scene, in actuality, plays out.



I really liked the idea of the game hinting on Max being in a time loop she has to somehow break.
I came to think of the same thing while playing the game and started wondering at some point why Max was able to see the storm when the second time we experience it was clearly in the future.
And since we see Max only traveling back, together with her own words that she thinks what she saw was not some form of dream but real, in time I think there is a solid argument in assuming
all that we experience during the game has already happened in some form and Max has traveled back in time for some reason.

I was wondering on any possible explanation of how exactly Max got to the lighthouse without recalling going there but the idea you pointed out that Jefferson actually might have dropped Max at the lighthouse after drugging her sounds very plausible and dropped my jaw. Didnt think of that. I would have guessed at amnesia maybe due to Max's rewinding since we already saw it can have negative effects on her like nosebleed, headaches and blacking out, like she did when she visited the cliff with Chloe and had her second remembrance of the storm.






So. . .

Is there a realistic way for Max to bring the now dead Chloe back but in a permanent state: outside of the butterfly effect itself and finally be rid of it? There is, but it is highly dependent on two things. Firstly; Max's ability to remember both past and future events, and secondly; whether or not it is a real possibility that it can actually work. There are two scenarios; two avenues of approach; only one road can be taken, but the end result is exactly the same.

Scenario one: Time Loop option

Max wakes up during the storm and finds herself at the lighthouse with no memory as to how she came there. She heads up to it and just as before, she sees the doe, and the boat hits the lighthouse dome and falls down towards her. In a reflex action Max rewinds back to Jefferson's classroom - back to the start again. After collecting her thoughts and going through the same things as before, the lesson ends and Max heads to the girls' toilets for solitude. When inside, Max goes through the same motions as before, that is until the butterfly enters the room from the open window. Max sees the butterfly and in a déj*-vu moment the memory of the past, or future in this case, is triggered. In one flashing moment, just like the photo montage seen when Max altered William's destiny, she sees the future events which are to come. With this sudden and shocking realisation rushing into her consciousness, Max can either hit the alarm as she did before, or run out of the toilets to prevent what she now knows is about to happen from ever happening in the first place.





There is also one thing that struck me while playing through the game and experiencing the scenes at the lighthouse during the storm.

When we first start Episode 1 we are seen wandering along the cliff when the boat hits the lightouse and it comes crashing down on us. Right before it would apparently kill us we wake up in Jeffersons class.

Now the second time we experience that scene is slightly different. Not only is there a longer and different ascend to the lighthouse itself and the vague image of a doe leading the way (right before the top of the lighthouse comes down on us again), but this time we stand in an entirely different spot when it does.
In scene one we had already wandered across the panel on the clifftop where we pick up the newspaper in scene two.
But in scene two we reach this panel only after the top of the lighthouse has already come down, this time missing us by far, while in scene one we stand right there when it comes down.

So, assuming Max actually is in a time loop, there might be a slight hint that this time loop has already happened at least twice, probably with Max losing her memory during the process (maybe due to Jeffersons drugging?), and in different ways.
The question is: to what extend different? And how will this time be different from the last ones? So there is a good chance that we will have another loop in episode five, maybe this time retaining our memory and destined to resolve things another way.







Scenario two: Non Time Loop option

Max wakes up during the storm and finds herself at the lighthouse with no memory as to how she came there. From here on in the road diverges and as I mentioned, is highly dependent of her ability to remember what has already transpired. In all honesty I am at a loss to see how Max successfully retrieves her memory at this point, but this will need to happen anyway if Max has any hope of solving the Arcadian mystery. I see two possibilities. A trigger that serves as a reminder, or the drug that has been used on her wears off and does not have the desired effect like it has had on previous victims - resulting in her memory slowly returning to normal and completely intact.

Max, in her mind's eye, now relives the moment when Chloe got shot and killed. What is she to do about it? Can she in fact do anything about it at all - is it too late? And how is she going to break the news to Joyce? What an awful scenario, I shudder at the thought.

But wait a moment! Do I still have that photograph which Warren took on the night of the Vortex Club party? It wouldn't matter if I did or not because it is not going to work. But why Max, why? Because it will only serve as a temporary plug in a cracked basin, a defective bung that will eventually leak the contents it is trying to contain, the water will leak out and everything will be back to square one again - the butterfly effect will still be active. So how am I ever going to be able to shut it down for good? The toilets Max! The girls' toilets! Do you remember? You took a picture of the butterfly which flew in through the open window. But that photo does not include an image of me, I am not there! Ah, but you are Max, you are! There is a clear reflection of you on the bucket, is it not at least worth a try? But I gave that picture to Chloe in exchange for William's old camera, the picture was in Chloe's wallet and I don't know where she is. You will need to find her Max and check for the photo. Look in Chloe's room as well, there is chance that it might be there. Find Chloe, Max!

Ha! Sorry about the amateur dramatics, but I am sure you get the idea.

So with the idea that I started on this thread: the ending becomes the beginning, and the beginning becomes the ending; the possible significance of that very first photograph comes sharply into focus. From this point onwards it has to be accepted that Max finds Chloe and the photograph. Max works her mojo and finds herself once again in the girls' toilets at the point just before Nathan enters. She now has the same options as in scenario one. Whichever one she chooses to do is of no importance, but what is important is that Max must not use her rewind ability for any reason whatsoever! It is an identical situation to that of Kate and her suicide bid. Max lost her powers and had to try and save Kate with nothing more than her own humanity, and so it must be here, too.


Max has now prevented the single defining moment that has caused so much trouble to her, and of course to Chloe, from ever happening. The difference now is that Max has foreknowledge of all the other events to come and will be well prepared for them when they do. But essentially, the timeline has been reset to as it should be and everything is normal again - except the darkness of Blackwell Academy and of course, the Prescotts; those particular problems still need to be addressed.

J J



The bathroom photo of the butterfly would make sense to go back to.
But as we remember Chloe took the photo when she realised Max saved her life that day. And we have no sure indicator that Max gets it back somehow.

But, there is another even more obvious photo we could use to travel back which Max might have still with her.
Remember what the tutorial made us do as our very first action inside the game? Take a selfie inside Jeffersons class. Right before everything that set the story in motion happened.
Maybe this is what Max did in previous loop(s?) and explains why we "wake up" during Jeffersons class after apparently getting buried by the lighthouse during the intro.

So there might be another key to traveling back in time from 11th to 7th of October and it would give us a fair share of time to prevent Chloe from ever entering the bathroom with Nathan.
Though this way it would not be a final solution. There is still the matter with Jefferson, Rachel and Nathan to be resolved. How are they tied together and how are we supposed to resolve it? It also leaves open the question about the storm and what significance it has in the story.

How would we warn people of it? What are its origins? If it would be a natural phenomenon, that would correlate with the snowfall in terms of the weather running riot and maybe even with the dead birds and stranded whales (both orientate with the help of earth's electromagnetic field, so the building storm might have disorientated them), but what explanation would there be for the strange picture of two moons in the nightsky during the Vortex-Club party?

Maybe Max's powers are somehow connected to the strange happenings around Arcadia Bay and her excessive use of them during the game caused some serious trouble with physics?
In this case another loop with Max retaining her memory would also make sense. If she was to somehow gather the knowledge of her rewind power affecting the storm she would probably would come to the same realisation she had upon the roof with Kate. That she cant rely on her powers to fix everything.
So we would travel back to the point where we first had to use our rewind which would be Nathan's and Chloe's conflict in the bathroom.

Assuming we would go back keeping our memory intact, either using the photo we took in the bathroom or the selfie we took in Jeffersons class, we could have some options to at least keep Chloe from being shot in the first place, thus preventing the start of Max's vast need to use her rewind power. Killing two birds with one stone in the process: saving Chloe and preventing the storm.
But how? Maybe keep Chloe from entering the bathroom? Maybe run in on the two of them, either managing to persuade Nathan to calm down or, with a bad choice of words, causing the death of either of the attendants, including ourselves
....in which case we probably had to rewind, rendering the whole effort to solve it without rewinding futile.
So better just stop Chloe from entering, I guess.

How we are going to resolve the Jefferson/Rachel/Prescott-matter, even with Max's foreknowledge, in this case I have absolutely no clue though. :scratch:


Anyway, loved reading through your post and I am even more excited on what Episode 5 will bring us in the near future.:D

julietxjules
13th Aug 2015, 23:16
I was wondering on any possible explanation of how exactly Max got to the lighthouse without recalling going there but the idea you pointed out that Jefferson actually might have dropped Max at the lighthouse after drugging her sounds very plausible and dropped my jaw. Didnt think of that. I would have guessed at amnesia maybe due to Max's rewinding since we already saw it can have negative effects on her like nosebleed, headaches and blacking out, like she did when she visited the cliff with Chloe and had her second remembrance of the storm.

Hello, ET Red! Thank you for your perspective.

If you will indulge me, I will reply in three parts - I would rather respond to multi-commenting that way because it is easier for me to process my own thinking on one subject at a time.

It is an assured event that Max will find herself in the dark room. As we all learned in episode four, the drive out to the old barn was no short distance. So in order for her to arrive at the lighthouse - outside of time-jumping - a mode of transport will be required to span this distance. As to who it actually turns out to be is a highly moot subject and by no means certain. I mentioned Jefferson because it is a good possibility that it is him but, it may turn to out to be Nathan actually helping Max to escape - she has to get away somehow! Another possible scenario finds Max either tied up in the back seat of a car or inside the boot and, by way of an action prompt she manages to force the boot open and throw herself from the moving vehicle near the lighthouse itself.

Nathan may have found out about the death of Rachel and through this discovery his thinking has been modified. We still do not know Nathan's true role in this affair even though he appears to a very troubled young man. I have a feeling that he was in love with Rachel - a strong gut feeling.

To reiterate myself, again! The variables in this game are plentiful and because of this factor it is almost impossible to call the shots in advance.

julietxjules
13th Aug 2015, 23:27
There is also one thing that struck me while playing through the game and experiencing the scenes at the lighthouse during the storm.

When we first start Episode 1 we are seen wandering along the cliff when the boat hits the lightouse and it comes crashing down on us. Right before it would apparently kill us we wake up in Jeffersons class.

Now the second time we experience that scene is slightly different. Not only is there a longer and different ascend to the lighthouse itself and the vague image of a doe leading the way (right before the top of the lighthouse comes down on us again), but this time we stand in an entirely different spot when it does.
In scene one we had already wandered across the panel on the clifftop where we pick up the newspaper in scene two.
But in scene two we reach this panel only after the top of the lighthouse has already come down, this time missing us by far, while in scene one we stand right there when it comes down.

So, assuming Max actually is in a time loop, there might be a slight hint that this time loop has already happened at least twice, probably with Max losing her memory during the process (maybe due to Jeffersons drugging?), and in different ways.
The question is: to what extend different? And how will this time be different from the last ones? So there is a good chance that we will have another loop in episode five, maybe this time retaining our memory and destined to resolve things another way.

Ah yes! The "Groundhog Day" factor. You are quite correct and it is highly possible that the scene at the lighthouse has played out countless times before - yet another variable that is so hard to call but makes us think that by suggestion and logic alone.

julietxjules
14th Aug 2015, 00:55
The bathroom photo of the butterfly would make sense to go back to.
But as we remember Chloe took the photo when she realised Max saved her life that day. And we have no sure indicator that Max gets it back somehow.

But, there is another even more obvious photo we could use to travel back which Max might have still with her.
Remember what the tutorial made us do as our very first action inside the game? Take a selfie inside Jeffersons class. Right before everything that set the story in motion happened.
Maybe this is what Max did in previous loop(s?) and explains why we "wake up" during Jeffersons class after apparently getting buried by the lighthouse during the intro.

So there might be another key to traveling back in time from 11th to 7th of October and it would give us a fair share of time to prevent Chloe from ever entering the bathroom with Nathan.
Though this way it would not be a final solution. There is still the matter with Jefferson, Rachel and Nathan to be resolved. How are they tied together and how are we supposed to resolve it? It also leaves open the question about the storm and what significance it has in the story.

How would we warn people of it? What are its origins? If it would be a natural phenomenon, that would correlate with the snowfall in terms of the weather running riot and maybe even with the dead birds and stranded whales (both orientate with the help of earth's electromagnetic field, so the building storm might have disorientated them), but what explanation would there be for the strange picture of two moons in the nightsky during the Vortex-Club party?

Maybe Max's powers are somehow connected to the strange happenings around Arcadia Bay and her excessive use of them during the game caused some serious trouble with physics?
In this case another loop with Max retaining her memory would also make sense. If she was to somehow gather the knowledge of her rewind power affecting the storm she would probably would come to the same realisation she had upon the roof with Kate. That she cant rely on her powers to fix everything.
So we would travel back to the point where we first had to use our rewind which would be Nathan's and Chloe's conflict in the bathroom.

Assuming we would go back keeping our memory intact, either using the photo we took in the bathroom or the selfie we took in Jeffersons class, we could have some options to at least keep Chloe from being shot in the first place, thus preventing the start of Max's vast need to use her rewind power. Killing two birds with one stone in the process: saving Chloe and preventing the storm.
But how? Maybe keep Chloe from entering the bathroom? Maybe run in on the two of them, either managing to persuade Nathan to calm down or, with a bad choice of words, causing the death of either of the attendants, including ourselves
....in which case we probably had to rewind, rendering the whole effort to solve it without rewinding futile.
So better just stop Chloe from entering, I guess.

How we are going to resolve the Jefferson/Rachel/Prescott-matter, even with Max's foreknowledge, in this case I have absolutely no clue though. :scratch:


Anyway, loved reading through your post and I am even more excited on what Episode 5 will bring us in the near future.:D

This seems to be a Chloe-centric type comment so I will follow your lead and concentrate on that if I may. The simplest way to avoid the tragic event in the girls' toilet is for Max to sound the fire alarm, at least that way Madsen will be in the corridor to round the students up and thus prevent Nathan - or anyone else from entering the toilets. There is also no reason why Max couldn't just go outside and either stop Nathan in his tracks or look for the approaching Chloe. This will be also be another way in which they could meet up again after five years rather than how they did in the car park.

I have no idea how it all fits in with the bigger picture, but Chloe is a good place to start from Max's point of view.

The easiest way to describe the origin of the storm is to view it as a temporal rift caused by punching holes in the current timeline, but in truth it is one of those elements in the game that the knowledge of will only be revealed at the end of the game. As for the twin moons, well the cause of that could be literally anything you like, but it strongly suggests to me that a tangent timeline is encroaching on the present one.

We will just have to wait and see what the game shows us.

julietxjules
20th Aug 2015, 13:11
We will just have to wait and see what the game shows us.

. . .but don't hold your breath - thing's are going to get real!!

ET_Red
25th Aug 2015, 13:11
. . .but don't hold your breath - thing's are going to get real!!

Too late for that. Been holding it since the end of Episode 4. But I guess I can go on another few days without breathing while waiting for Ep.5 to be released.

In the meantime: killing time with another playthrough and dedicating it to all the little details I might have missed in previous playthroughs. Got to appreciate all the little hints and puns the developers put in this game.

Like all the conveniently placed comments from several characters about "getting one instant replay" of their life or wishing for "the power to change things for good" up to wishing that "October would last forever".

Like the homeless woman behind the Two-Whales Diner who replies she has lived in Arcadia Bay for a thousand years when asked about it. Now I am actually wondering whether she meant it literally.

Or Samuels comments whenever Max talks to him.
"Get out, while time is on your side" and "Keep prying, sounds like you have a lot of time on your hands." to mention my favorites.

julietxjules
25th Aug 2015, 13:46
In the meantime: killing time with another playthrough and dedicating it to all the little details I might have missed in previous playthroughs. Got to appreciate all the little hints and puns the developers put in this game.

This is true. Because the episodes are all relatively short one has to pay very close attention to every bit of dialogue whether it seems trivial or not. And the more times you go back and play it again - the more times you notice something else that was missed on the previous play-through.

LordBattleBeard
21st Sep 2015, 14:12
Well. . .to let you in on a little secret, I do not care if I am right or wrong. It has been one heck of a good ride so far and I thank the developers for creating such a cerebral adventure and that it has managed to stimulate me like no other game has before. Absolutely. Half of the fun is in the mystery and the hell of a ride this game has given us :thumb:


[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode][SIZE=2][COLOR="#000000"]This particular aspect of things to come has many variables the way I see it. The odd thing here is why Jefferson does not simply shoot her and be done with it as he did to Chloe?Before I read any further... let me jsut say that I ask myself this very question in near enough every fiction novel/movie ever created. How many chances did Voldemort have to kill Harry but didn't? the writers/creators nearly always just stall because it fits the given story.


There is obviously something about Max that appeals and meets the criteria as laid down by Jefferson!Definitely. I certainly think its more than just 'he's a creep'. If that were the case, they would have already given too much of the ending away in Episode 4.


Maybe Victoria's file is still empty because she does not fit the model of character that is required to satiate his agenda - meaning, that she is exempt, but given that he awarded the "Everyday Heroes" contest prize to her - it makes me wonder if ultimately, he has other plans in store for her?I take the empty folder with her name on it as it being in the "planning" phase for her. Jefferson has already got away with so much and thats only possible with careful planning.



If Max is so drugged up that she loses all her faculties, then logically it would point to the fact that she will need help to escape from the perverted clutches of Mark Jefferson - either that or she manages to escape after a time when the drug wears off which could in fact be hours or days later, even!I know I'm already outed as a David Madsen fan but whichever way I look at it, he has to be the one to save Max. Who else was already on the track of Jefferson and know his exact coordinates? I hope he was paranoid enough to keep copies of what Max/Chloe "borrowed".


If someone does intervene it may be that the person in question, knowing what is happening, does not want any further involvement or be associated with the situation any longer and thus has no desire to be identified and decides to dump Max near the lighthouse. This idea points in Nathan's direction, or someone that until now is involved but unknown.That's a great thought and just as probable, and indeed, could be either depending on your earlier choices. I definitely don't think DontNod is going to follow with this stereotypical portrayal of Nathans character. Its too easy and must.. surely, lead to something more.


Of all the most slippery of problems to try and pin down and resolve, this is certainly the slipperiest. But as you have said, it might be Max who whisks herself to safety, not necessarily at the lighthouse but in the general locale and is able to walk so far until she collapses through exhaustion caused by the drug only to wake up and find herself at the lighthouse proper. Another thing to consider is: at what point in episode five is this scene going to occur? Near the start? In the middle? Or at the end? The start, middle, and end point will all have a direct bearing on how much time remains to accommodate the theories, or my theory at least, to what I think is going to happen - hence why I said that I am willing to concede that my idea would turn out to be total nonsense.I would hazard a guess at the cutscene occurring somewhere near the end of the start, or the middle of the game. A lot of what you've came up with rings true and you've definitely put a lot of thought into it.


Instinctively I would say that the event in question would occur soon after the start, but as I have already learned, this game is capable of producing an unexpected twist and is likely to jump up and bite you. :mad2:Haha. Exactly. Whenever considering the ending or plotline I always ask myself "is this shocking and unexpected enough" :D

julietxjules
21st Sep 2015, 14:29
To be or not to be. . .that is the question. whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Or to take arms against a sea...??????

Oh, enough of that, Mr Shake!

Hello again. It will not be long now and we will soon know exactly what is going to happen in Arcadia Bay. I see that there is to be a special announcement this afternoon; this may relate to episode five's release time? Anticipation is high; expectancy is high; blood pressure is high!

LordBattleBeard
21st Sep 2015, 14:39
To be or not to be. . .that is the question. whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Or to take arms against a sea...??????

Oh, enough of that, Mr Shake!

Hello again. It will not be long now and we will soon know exactly what is going to happen in Arcadia Bay. I see that there is to be a special announcement this afternoon; this may relate to episode five's release time? Anticipation is high; expectancy is high; blood pressure is high!One more month to go...
http://i.imgur.com/uktKaLe.gif

But never mind.. hopefully the extra time will make it that much more awesome :p

julietxjules
22nd Sep 2015, 05:41
One more month to go...

But never mind.. hopefully the extra time will make it that much more awesome :p

DONTNOD have probably got the jitters over the fact that it is the last installment and are trying to make sure that no plot holes exist whatsoever! I can see them having daily team meetings about this very thing - ironing everything out until a smooth consistency is achieved and all is credible within the story-lines.

Well. . .here's hoping, anyhow.

Oh. . .and you're not alone with the whole David Madsen thing.

I hope, in a way, that they have filmed some of the making of Life Is Strange, it would be very good viewing!

LordBattleBeard
26th Sep 2015, 04:19
DONTNOD have probably got the jitters over the fact that it is the last installment and are trying to make sure that no plot holes exist whatsoever! I can see them having daily team meetings about this very thing - ironing everything out until a smooth consistency is achieved and all is credible within the story-lines.

Well. . .here's hoping, anyhow.You're probably right on that. And getting the jitters is a very good thing. I wish more game companies did before releasing some half-baked game.


Oh. . .and you're not alone with the whole David Madsen thing.I'm not? that's a relief.. being a population of 1 was getting lonely :p
After getting a couple of friends to play it both are convinced he's the devil reincarnated, no matter how I put it. I can't be wrong for this reason :D


I hope, in a way, that they have filmed some of the making of Life Is Strange, it would be very good viewing!That, official merchandise, a physical and collectors release, & soundtrack.. did I miss anything?

CrystalXPredator
26th Sep 2015, 15:49
I hope, in a way, that they have filmed some of the making of Life Is Strange, it would be very good viewing!

There are some making of of Life is Strange. I don't know if you mean these two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM5cLd-Zfw4 Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VZ9RQNlMHY Part 2

julietxjules
26th Sep 2015, 16:45
I'm not? that's a relief.. being a population of 1 was getting lonely :p
After getting a couple of friends to play it both are convinced he's the devil reincarnated, no matter how I put it. I can't be wrong for this reason :D

I think that Madsen was intentionally designed to be grating and dark in his personality to make people view him negatively. But right from the outset - back in episode one - I always thought that his heart was in the right place.

That, official merchandise, a physical and collectors release, & soundtrack.. did I miss anything?

No. . .I think you got it all covered.

julietxjules
26th Sep 2015, 16:53
There are some making of of Life is Strange. I don't know if you mean these two.

Thanks. But I saw all three of these videos way back in February. What I mean is a documentary film - post episode five - when all secrets are out and done with and can be openly discussed by DONTNOD. It will probably never happen simply because some people who haven't played it and discover the game at a later date might come across such a film and have their experience totally spoilt. But you never know.

CrystalXPredator
26th Sep 2015, 17:01
Thanks. But I saw all three of these videos way back in February. What I mean is a documentary film - post episode five - when all secrets are out and done with and can be openly discussed by DONTNOD. It will probably never happen simply because some people who haven't played it and discover the game at a later date might come across such a film and have their experience totally spoilt. But you never know.

Ahh okay now I understood. ;D Well yeah it would be cool but I guess it won't happen either, because as you said people who didn't play it would be get spoilt.

LordBattleBeard
26th Sep 2015, 17:50
I think that Madsen was intentionally designed to be grating and dark in his personality to make people view him negatively. But right from the outset - back in episode one - I always thought that his heart was in the right place.My thoughts exactly. That and I've read/watched a lot of things about war so its easier for me to understand and be sympathetic to someone like David.


There are some making of of Life is Strange. I don't know if you mean these two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM5cLd-Zfw4 Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VZ9RQNlMHY Part 2I didn't see that so thanks. Bookmarked for later :thumb:

julietxjules
26th Sep 2015, 19:59
When you consider the fact that some of the other main characters have not had regular 'air' time like Madsen has, ( I think he's been in every episode so far while others have not) it does indeed point toward his presence being heavily inclusive in episode five.

Tataboj
26th Sep 2015, 21:16
Speaking of air time... Jefferson was present in all of the episodes, a reminder like "Hey, I'm here, don't forget me!" We know why now. But think about this: Victoria has been teased the same way, there was no other way but to interact with her. Which makes me think that the result of the choice whether she trusts Max about The Dark Room or not will also have a big impact.

julietxjules
27th Sep 2015, 17:04
Speaking of air time... Jefferson was present in all of the episodes, a reminder like "Hey, I'm here, don't forget me!" We know why now. But think about this: Victoria has been teased the same way, there was no other way but to interact with her. Which makes me think that the result of the choice whether she trusts Max about The Dark Room or not will also have a big impact.

This is true. And regarding Victoria's fate, it may well depend on how Max interacted with her at the party. But given that quite a lot of time has now passed since "Dark Room" was released, it has given me lots of time to think about things in general. Right here and now, I don't think the climax of the series is going to be at all what everyone is expecting or anticipating.

LordBattleBeard
27th Sep 2015, 18:15
This is true. And regarding Victoria's fate, it may well depend on how Max interacted with her at the party. But given that quite a lot of time has now passed since "Dark Room" was released, it has given me lots of time to think about things in general. Right here and now, I don't think the climax of the series is going to be at all what everyone is expecting or anticipating. Do go on...

julietxjules
28th Sep 2015, 14:08
Do go on...

I think I came across far too mysterious than what I intended to. It is nothing specific, nothing I can highlight and claim to be true or authentic - it is more an emotion, a feeling that I have about the game in general. It has been as much a learning curve for us as it has been for Max as we witnessed her growth as an young adult and the discovery of her latent power. And discovery is, and has been a very strong thread that has continually run through the entire game from the outset.

The discovery of her power; the rediscovery and rekindling of her friendship with a very changed Chloe Price. The discovery of the hidden truths of all the people around her at Blackwell; the portents which showed themselves as warnings for the future. The nostalgic elements of once belonging to something which resides firmly in the past and has been lost or neglected to the degree that not even yearning or desire can bring it back as it once was - it is passed and cannot be relived to make it seem more real and tangible - hence the rewind!!!? The inner dialogue we get to hear as Max battles with her own conscious whenever she needs to make a decision which she knows will have consequences, and in some cases dire ones, are all life lessons for Max to learn, to grow, and gain some wisdom from.

These discoveries are more a journey than an education, and that is the whole point - it is a journey that we are all being carried along on - willing passengers to watch as Max discovers her inner self. It would seem that Max has lived within an emotional cocoon for five years ever since leaving Arcadia Bay; only now is she coming out of her self imposed shell. The past is a scary place where all sorts of demons lurk silently in wait, waiting for you to finally discover that the past is dead, it is over and done with - only existing in the memory as a torment, a nostalgia.

For Max to grow stronger emotionally she needs to endure experiences that are outside of her emotional gamut and so expand it, to strengthen it. The events in Arcadia Bay are all designed to do this whether she realises it or not. And now we come down to it! What will be the final traumatic experience that Max will have to endure?

I will say no more simply because I do not want to. Draw your own conclusions, but like I said, the past is a scary and disturbing place that has no rightful place in the present - the here and now.

Tataboj
28th Sep 2015, 17:10
I think I came across far too mysterious than what I intended to. It is nothing specific, nothing I can highlight and claim to be true or authentic - it is more an emotion, a feeling that I have about the game in general. It has been as much a learning curve for us as it has been for Max as we witnessed her growth as an young adult and the discovery of her latent power. And discovery is, and has been a very strong thread that has continually run through the entire game from the outset.

The discovery of her power; the rediscovery and rekindling of her friendship with a very changed Chloe Price. The discovery of the hidden truths of all the people around her at Blackwell; the portents which showed themselves as warnings for the future. The nostalgic elements of once belonging to something which resides firmly in the past and has been lost or neglected to the degree that not even yearning or desire can bring it back as it once was - it is passed and cannot be relived to make it seem more real and tangible - hence the rewind!!!? The inner dialogue we get to hear as Max battles with her own conscious whenever she needs to make a decision which she knows will have consequences, and in some cases dire ones, are all life lessons for Max to learn, to grow, and gain some wisdom from.

These discoveries are more a journey than an education, and that is the whole point - it is a journey that we are all being carried along on - willing passengers to watch as Max discovers her inner self. It would seem that Max has lived within an emotional cocoon for five years ever since leaving Arcadia Bay; only know is she coming out of her self imposed shell. The past is a scary place where all sorts of demons lurk silently in wait, waiting for you to finally discover that the past is dead, it is over and done with - only existing in the memory as a torment, a nostalgia.

For Max to grow stronger emotionally she needs to endure experiences that are outside of her emotional gamut and so expand it, to strengthen it. The events in Arcadia Bay are all designed to do this whether she realises it or not. And now we come down to it! What will be the final traumatic experience that Max will have to endure?

I will say no more simply because I do not want to. Draw your own conclusions, but like I said, the past is a scary and disturbing place that has no rightful place in the present - the here and now.

Tataboj's conclusion: The Past FTW!! (sorry, I couldn't resist)

julietxjules
28th Sep 2015, 17:46
Tataboj's conclusion: The Past FTW!! (sorry, I couldn't resist)

I am not very good with abbreviations. . .what exactly do you mean by FTW???

Det_Forrester
28th Sep 2015, 19:52
I am not very good with abbreviations. . .what exactly do you mean by FTW???

That is an acronym that means, "For The Win."

Also, I'm impressed by that paragraph you wrote. Very spot-on. :thumb:

julietxjules
28th Sep 2015, 23:11
That is an acronym that means, "For The Win."

Also, I'm impressed by that paragraph you wrote. Very spot-on. :thumb:

I wouldn't call that an acronym - it is pure abbreviation and therefore not a word, but thanks for telling me what it means because I was absolutely clueless! :)

LordBattleBeard
29th Sep 2015, 01:46
I think I came across far too mysterious than what I intended to. It is nothing specific, nothing I can highlight and claim to be true or authentic - it is more an emotion, a feeling that I have about the game in general. It has been as much a learning curve for us as it has been for Max as we witnessed her growth as an young adult and the discovery of her latent power. And discovery is, and has been a very strong thread that has continually run through the entire game from the outset.

The discovery of her power; the rediscovery and rekindling of her friendship with a very changed Chloe Price. The discovery of the hidden truths of all the people around her at Blackwell; the portents which showed themselves as warnings for the future. The nostalgic elements of once belonging to something which resides firmly in the past and has been lost or neglected to the degree that not even yearning or desire can bring it back as it once was - it is passed and cannot be relived to make it seem more real and tangible - hence the rewind!!!? The inner dialogue we get to hear as Max battles with her own conscious whenever she needs to make a decision which she knows will have consequences, and in some cases dire ones, are all life lessons for Max to learn, to grow, and gain some wisdom from.

These discoveries are more a journey than an education, and that is the whole point - it is a journey that we are all being carried along on - willing passengers to watch as Max discovers her inner self. It would seem that Max has lived within an emotional cocoon for five years ever since leaving Arcadia Bay; only now is she coming out of her self imposed shell. The past is a scary place where all sorts of demons lurk silently in wait, waiting for you to finally discover that the past is dead, it is over and done with - only existing in the memory as a torment, a nostalgia.

For Max to grow stronger emotionally she needs to endure experiences that are outside of her emotional gamut and so expand it, to strengthen it. The events in Arcadia Bay are all designed to do this whether she realises it or not. And now we come down to it! What will be the final traumatic experience that Max will have to endure?

I will say no more simply because I do not want to. Draw your own conclusions, but like I said, the past is a scary and disturbing place that has no rightful place in the present - the here and now.Wow, love your summary of basically everything this game is. A deep understanding of the game coupled with an ability to put it into words. You could give those amateurs at IGN a run for their money!

With that said, as a person with nostalgia routed deeply in myself, that made for tough reading so excuse me while I proceed to put my fingers in my ears and shout loudly until I forget :p

I think what you're getting at, or if you're not, I just surmised from what you put.. Max is going to have to let go of the past and a big part of that is Chloe. Which actually makes a lot of sense.. though I wish it didn't.

Tataboj
29th Sep 2015, 05:01
I wouldn't call that an acronym - it is pure abbreviation and therefore not a word, but thanks for telling me what it means because I was absolutely clueless! :)

Yeah, that's what I meant. It wasn't very deep anyway... :)


Wow, love your summary of basically everything this game is. A deep understanding of the game coupled with an ability to put it into words. You could give those amateurs at IGN a run for their money!

With that said, as a person with nostalgia routed deeply in myself, that made for tough reading so excuse me while I proceed to put my fingers in my ears and shout loudly until I forget :p

I think what you're getting at, or if you're not, I just surmised from what you put.. Max is going to have to let go of the past and a big part of that is Chloe. Which actually makes a lot of sense.. though I wish it didn't.

Exactly my words.

julietxjules
29th Sep 2015, 23:23
Wow, love your summary of basically everything this game is. A deep understanding of the game coupled with an ability to put it into words. You could give those amateurs at IGN a run for their money!

With that said, as a person with nostalgia routed deeply in myself, that made for tough reading so excuse me while I proceed to put my fingers in my ears and shout loudly until I forget :p

I think what you're getting at, or if you're not, I just surmised from what you put.. Max is going to have to let go of the past and a big part of that is Chloe. Which actually makes a lot of sense.. though I wish it didn't.

Thanks. . .and I am glad that someone cares enough to leave thoughtful and considered comments like those that you have - it shows that you read me.

Reminiscing about the past is fine just so long as you know and understand where it belongs. We all have a past no matter how old we are; from the very young to the very old, we build and accumulate memories to protect the moment our memory has captured and etched into our consciousness from ever getting forgotten or lost - we regard them as being more than precious. That is why this game has resonated with so many people across all levels, it reminds everyone who plays it of the joys and sadness that life has to offer as we pass through it. Unfortunately, those memories of negativity such as hurt, pain, or loss and the like, are stored alongside the happier memories of times when innocence took precedence over experience. It is those memories - en masse, of our experiences in life that shape and define us into a quantifiable measurement when gauged against the emotional scale.

No one, no matter who they are can say they are without emotion. Some people can claim to be emotionally hardened, but it is emotion that has driven them to this state of mind in the first place - resulting in them living a denial that they are still capable to feel, or dare to feel. I see a bit of this condition in Chloe's character. When William died, a piece of Chloe died along with him simply because Chloe was so attached to him - she loved him dearly. The piece that died was the positive emotion of love, this was replaced with negativity - the principle of opposite attraction - which then developed into anger and remoulded Chloe into the young girl that Max caught up with when she returned to Arcadia Bay.

Chloe has only painful memories of loss which she carries inside of herself each and every day. Her memories of the past are all ghosts, phantoms which swirl about in her mind that constantly remind her of how things once were. She didn't only lose her father and her inner daughterly love; she also lost Max, too - her very best friend. Chloe's personality then devolved and a wilder, darker aspect of her psyche emerged which physically materialised itself into her punk persona. She then met Rachel Amber, a seemingly kindred spirit and, because she was so emotionally damaged, she latched onto Rachel like a leech needing some life giving blood. Chloe became overly attached to Rachel who filled the empty void in her soul. But suddenly, even Rachel vanished from her life leaving her feeling resolute in her belief that no one truly cares about her. This is a classic scenario of teenage angst and a good example of what it is that drives it forward.

Chloe is not to blame, she is victim of circumstances she had no control over. And is it not true that all of us can relate to this condition? Maybe not exactly as described above but, we all have had similar experiences as a teenager.

So the big question is whether or not Chloe can ever be truly happy again in her life. Max tried to remedy this by altering time but, we all know how that turned out and it wasn't good. In some ways death would be a blessing for Chloe because it would end her inner torment and lay her at rest, finally.

But no! Fate is conspiring to keep her alive for some reason only known to itself.
There is no more!

That's all I want to say for now.

And once again. . .thanks for reading me.


JJ

Det_Forrester
30th Sep 2015, 01:47
Words of wisdom. And I bow to your wisdom. :worship:

julietxjules
30th Sep 2015, 01:51
Words of wisdom. And I bow to your wisdom. :worship:

Haha! Get up off your knees, I do not merit worship. :rasp:

LordBattleBeard
30th Sep 2015, 10:09
Reminiscing about the past is fine just so long as you know and understand where it belongs. We all have a past no matter how old we are; from the very young to the very old, we build and accumulate memories to protect the moment our memory has captured and etched into our consciousness from ever getting forgotten or lost - we regard them as being more than precious. That is why this game has resonated with so many people across all levels, it reminds everyone who plays it of the joys and sadness that life has to offer as we pass through it. Unfortunately, those memories of negativity such as hurt, pain, or loss and the like, are stored alongside the happier memories of times when innocence took precedence over experience. It is those memories - en masse, of our experiences in life that shape and define us into a quantifiable measurement when gauged against the emotional scale.Indeed, what this game has done in that regard is simply incredible. It's broken from the straitjacket of thought in the games industry that for a game to succeed it has to be fast paced and action-packed in order for it to be exhilarating. It's exhilarating for the reasons you've described. I wasn't quite sure why it was I liked this game so much before. Its good to finally have a clear understanding of why it was, though sad because its also clearer to see that no other game I've yet discovered or looked into shares these same qualities.


No one, no matter who they are can say they are without emotion. Some people can claim to be emotionally hardened, but it is emotion that has driven them to this state of mind in the first place - resulting in them living a denial that they are still capable to feel, or dare to feel. I see a bit of this condition in Chloe's character. When William died, a piece of Chloe died along with him simply because Chloe was so attached to him - she loved him dearly. The piece that died was the positive emotion of love, this was replaced with negativity - the principle of opposite attraction - which then developed into anger and remoulded Chloe into the young girl that Max caught up with when she returned to Arcadia Bay.

Chloe has only painful memories of loss which she carries inside of herself each and every day. Her memories of the past are all ghosts, phantoms which swirl about in her mind that constantly remind her of how things once were. She didn't only lose her father and her inner daughterly love; she also lost Max, too - her very best friend. Chloe's personality then devolved and a wilder, darker aspect of her psyche emerged which physically materialised itself into her punk persona. She then met Rachel Amber, a seemingly kindred spirit and, because she was so emotionally damaged, she latched onto Rachel like a leech needing some life giving blood. Chloe became overly attached to Rachel who filled the empty void in her soul. But suddenly, even Rachel vanished from her life leaving her feeling resolute in her belief that no one truly cares about her. This is a classic scenario of teenage angst and a good example of what it is that drives it forward.I always thought it a bit strange how Chloe practically worshipped Rachel as though she was this flawless godlike person, though she was plainly the opposite of this. It makes sense when put like that.. though I would also add that some of us have this innate ability to remember and yearn for a past better than it actually ever was, so even if we were able to relive it, the end result would only be disappointment. I think Chloe fits into this category. So strangely, the thing Chloe wants most of all and thinks would make her happiest, would only serve to make her more miserable.


Chloe is not to blame, she is victim of circumstances she had no control over. And is it not true that all of us can relate to this condition? Maybe not exactly as described above but, we all have had similar experiences as a teenager.

So the big question is whether or not Chloe can ever be truly happy again in her life. Max tried to remedy this by altering time but, we all know how that turned out and it wasn't good. In some ways death would be a blessing for Chloe because it would end her inner torment and lay her at rest, finally.

But no! Fate is conspiring to keep her alive for some reason only known to itself.
There is no more!

That's all I want to say for now.I think but mostly hope that Chloe can be happy again. Using the context you've given, I'd say this would only be feasible if she learnt to let go of the past, and the prerequisite for that would be understanding and acceptance of it, which in turn would require some form of closure with the Rachel Amber case. I've never much wanted Rachel Amber to be alive and much less now after discussing it further :D after which, I think both Chloe and Max are capable of forming new good memories together.


Thanks. . .and I am glad that someone cares enough to leave thoughtful and considered comments like those that you have - it shows that you read me.
And once again. . .thanks for reading me.My pleasure :thumb:

julietxjules
30th Sep 2015, 10:59
I always thought it a bit strange how Chloe practically worshipped Rachel as though she was this flawless godlike person, though she was plainly the opposite of this. It makes sense when put like that.. though I would also add that some of us have this innate ability to remember and yearn for a past better than it actually ever was, so even if we were able to relive it, the end result would only be disappointment. I think Chloe fits into this category. So strangely, the thing Chloe wants most of all and thinks would make her happiest, would only serve to make her more miserable.

Yes. . .Rachel's whiter than white image is a fantasy, she too has flaws like everyone else. It seems that she explored the wilder side of life and it was that very thing that attracted Chloe to her. And maybe Chloe, if she got her wish to turn back the clock and relive the moments she feels are important to her would be disappointed in the sense that they wouldn't be exactly how she perceived them to be - but William, of course, would be an exception to this notion.

Dire87
23rd Oct 2015, 00:10
It's like you can look into the future. Did you just seriously almost predict the ending of the game? Impressive, impressive.

julietxjules
23rd Oct 2015, 00:29
It's like you can look into the future. Did you just seriously almost predict the ending of the game? Impressive, impressive.

I don't know about that; I was way off in places and hit the nail on the head in others. But as like all theories - they're not that reliable.

Thank you for your kind comment. :)