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Xeva-q
5th Aug 2015, 13:57
According to this theory Jefferson is not a bad guy. No, far from it: he is a hero who successfully saved the world.

But first a little premise here.

Premise

1. The cause for disaster.

There is a popular theory out there that Chloe Price is destined to die. I thought is goes like this: if someone who originally was meant to die was saved by time travel it would cause the world to collapse in five days. But it turned out to be wrong: William was saved by time travel which caused no disaster.
Basicly it could means two thing:

-Disaster wasn't cause by Maxine power in a first place and would happen anyway.

-Chloe Price and Chloe Price alone must die for world to go on. Any other person can be saved by time travel besides Chloe Price. If Chloe Price would not die prior to specific date the world would end.

The first possibility does not worse than second in any way but for sake of my theory I would stick with second possibility for now. For first possibility this theory makes no sense.

2. Jefferson's agenda

We have in our hand the group of three (at least) people: Sean, Nathan and Mark. Every of this three people have their specific role:

-Shaun gives his money for this project.

-Mark performs an act itself.

-Nathan provides a perfect cover for kidnappings – the vortex club parties.

The work of three people, a crazy load of cash (about 1400000$!) and risk to be caught – only to develop some dirty photos? They could not show those pictures to anyone. Those pictures could not be sold for a good price – because there is nothing so special about them. With this amount of money one could develop photo like that on completely legal basis. You could just pay someone for being drugged.

Honestly, I do not buy it. There must be some good reason for all of this.

Theory itself.

There is a person (I labeled them as “Lamb”) who must be dead prior to specific date for world to survive. It is not clear either this person “marked for dead” or not, but their death is absolutely necessary. There is another person (I labeled them as Time Traveler) who could save the Lamb at some point causing the disaster.

And there a group of people (I labeled them as Keepers) who's goal is not let disaster to happen by any means necessary. By killing the Lamb and stoping Time Traveler for save them again.

In our case I think that Keepers exist for quite some time. This group, lead by Prescott family, successfully stoped disaster several times before. And now it is happening yet again.

With Maxine being a Time Traveler and Chloe being the Lamb. And there are three known Keepers: Mark, Sean and Nathan.

Keepers aware of gender and age of the Lamb and the Time Traveler but they know nothing else. The Lamb by themself have no specific qualities. But Time Traveler have. And thus, Keepers goal is to track Time Traveler down.

And so, those strange photos made not for artistic purpose. It is some kind of experiment that allows to test person time travel abilities. After all, we know as a fact that photo of time traveler have some special qualities about it. What if there is a way for another person to see it? And they have some toxin to disable one's time travel abilities.

But one member of the group started to break down. Nathan is simply to young for so much pressure. Most likely it started after death of Rachel Amber. She was killed by mistake, by accident or she was yet another Time Traveler.

Remember when Chloe made a step on the road that leads to her death the second moon was disappeared, indicating that world was started to return back to normal. And Jefferson is aware of coming disaster. And we must conclude that Jefferson performed an action that made the world go back to normal. And he have some anti time travel toxin on him.

Yes, it is differently looks that way: a person who aware of disaster performed an action that made disaster fade away. Maybe it was his goal all along?

The Keeper had successfully achieved his goal by killing the Lamb and capturing the Time Traveler. He is a hero who save the world.

The ending of episode 4 is actually a good ending.

Variation

There is a variation of this theory: the goal of their group is indeed capture a Time Traveler but not for a good cause.

Alternate Maxine in the Dark Room

There is some clues that makes me think that alternate Maxine can be a member of their group.

And so in alternative reality we also have one of the Keepers who successfully killed the Lamb.

LordBattleBeard
5th Aug 2015, 15:56
-Disaster wasn't cause by Maxine power in a first place and would happen anyway.I think this. I don't think the impending disaster was caused by Max's power but rather her power is a byproduct of the impending disaster. Which explains how she gets her power.


-Chloe Price and Chloe Price alone must die for world to go on. Any other person can be saved by time travel besides Chloe Price. If Chloe Price would not die prior to specific date the world would end.Doesn't that contradict your earlier assertion that:
"There is a popular theory out there that Chloe Price is destined to die. I thought is goes like this: if someone who originally was meant to die was saved by time travel it would cause the world to collapse in five days. But it turned out to be wrong: William was saved by time travel which caused no disaster." ?

Though that was partly wrong too. After William was saved, the animals (wales/birds) were still dying suggesting the same fate ahead as before. The same events unfold despite you altering time because you didn't alter the cause of the events, which I don't think is caused by someone living who was supposed to die.


The work of three people, a crazy load of cash (about 1400000$!) and risk to be caught – only to develop some dirty photos?I agree. That would be ridiculous. Sean Prescott is not doing it for these reasons. Mr Jefferson on the other hand, I'm not so sure. Remember, he's an artist and I doubt he see's his work as being "dirty photos". He sees it as art.

Xeva-q
5th Aug 2015, 16:15
Though that was partly wrong too. After William was saved, the animals (wales/birds) were still dying suggesting the same fate ahead as before.
After about a five years. But not right away like in Chloe's case. I think is safe to conclude that it is really does not matter if William alive or not.

Doesn't that contradict your earlier assertion that:
"There is a popular theory out there that Chloe Price is destined to die. I thought is goes like this: if someone who originally was meant to die was saved by time travel it would cause the world to collapse in five days. But it turned out to be wrong: William was saved by time travel which caused no disaster." ?
No it does not. It is actually a way to resolve this contradiction by suggesting that Chloe is special of some sort. That she is the only one who not allowed to be saved. But Kate or William or anybody else are allowed to be saved.

Of course, without Chloe being special this theory does not work.

I agree with this possibility. I don't think the impending disaster was caused by Max's power but rather her power is a byproduct of the impending disaster. Which explains how she gets her power.
Like in Donnie Darco movie, yes. Of course this possibility requires some different theory.

I agree. That would be ridiculous. Sean Prescott is not doing it for these reasons. Mr Jefferson on the other hand, I'm not so sure.
But Sean clearly aware of Jefferson's doings. He completely okay with the fact that his son is working with Jefferson.

I think it is save to conclude that Jefferson's reasons is good enough for Sean. And that they share a same agenda.

The same events unfold despite you altering time because you didn't alter the cause of the events, which I don't think is caused by someone living who was supposed to die.
Or, it also might be caused by the fact that Chloe is still alive.

I honestly see no reason at this point to prefer one over another.

LordBattleBeard
5th Aug 2015, 16:41
After about a five years. But not right away like in Chloe's case. I think is safe to conclude that it is really does not matter if William alive or not.

No it does not. It is actually a way to resolve this contradiction by suggesting that Chloe is special of some sort. That she is the only one who not allowed to be saved. But Kate or William or anybody else are allowed to be saved.I think you did a good job of disproving the "world will unravel if you alter the fate of someone destined to die" theory. You should stay along that line of thought. To extrapolate and find reasons around your original good explanation doesn't make sense.

Xeva-q
5th Aug 2015, 18:24
I think you did a good job of disproving the "world will unravel if you alter the fate of someone destined to die" theory. You should stay along that line of thought. To extrapolate and find reasons around your original good explanation doesn't make sense.

Yes, indeed, but this assumption of mine have nothing to do with altering someone's fate. It is goes like this: "It does not matter was the fate of Chloe Price altered or not. She must die or world would be destroyed". Some kind of ritual sacrifice to keep world going, just like in Aztec mythology.

I wouldn't even bother, to be honest, but we have a very strong clue to support this assumption. I am talking about disappearance of the second moon. Having this i can not just dismiss this assumption as nonsensical, even through it indeed seems that way.

As you may remember in the topic "No connection" i wanted to prove that this assumption is completely wrong, but i was forced by meimeiriver to admit that i actually have failed.

UveProblematique
5th Aug 2015, 18:39
This theory is plausible but quite improbable, I like it though. This is unlikely to happen and yet this theory has no inconsistencies so congratulations

Xeva-q
5th Aug 2015, 18:43
This theory is plausible but quite improbable, I like it though. This is unlikely to happen and yet this theory has no inconsistencies so congratulations

Thank you a lot!

Well it actually have some inconsistencies but i see no need to establish them by myself.;)

Sneddonator
5th Aug 2015, 22:03
I like this theory too. It certainly puts a whole new perspective on things.

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 04:53
According to this theory Jefferson is not a bad guy. No, far from it: he is a hero who successfully saved the world.

"FROM ZERO TO HERO!"

Sorry. It's almost midnight and I'm losing my mind.

Good theory. Could be very interesting if it turns out that way, but I still can't stop the goosebumps (and violet evil words forming in my head) from forming every time I see Mr. Jefferson's face now. He will have a LOT of explaining to do about those photographs.

"Dear Mr. Jefferson? How do the bondage photographs come into play with the whole saving Arcadia Bay from being destroyed by a tornado?!"

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 12:04
He will have a LOT of explaining to do about those photographs.
Well, yes, but they have to do some explaining either way. The assumption that this photos was made for artistic reasons does not make much sense to me either.

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 12:46
Well, yes, but they have to do some explaining either way. The assumption that this photos was made for artistic reasons does not make much sense to me either.

We need ace reporter Juilet Watson for this case.

We need to go deep into Jefferson's psyche to understand his motives. I would, but

A) Have only just begun my studies in psychology and would not be able to correctly identify if there was something more troubling going on.

B) Too tried to think.

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 12:55
We need to go deep into Jefferson's psyche to understand his motives.


It wouldn't be enough. Why Sean spend so much money on Jefferson's work must be explained also.

I think is not about Jefferson's mind, even if this theory is wrong.

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 14:16
It wouldn't be enough. Why Sean spend so much money on Jefferson's work must be explained also.

I think is not about Jefferson's mind, even if this theory is wrong.

So psychoanaylize everyone? Got it. Lol. (Jk).

There are so many possibilities about Jefferson and the bondage photos. I just hope it's not as bad as I think it is.

Anyway, if found out, couldn't he get some serious jail time? If they link him to Rachel's murder, then it's obvious. But what about the photos. Aren't most of these girls underaged?

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 14:24
Aren't most of these girls underaged?
Well, if Rachel wasn't killed i am not quite sure that Jefferson can be considered as a criminal at all. That gilrs weren't naked. They weren't harmed in any way. Ans so... so what if they was underaged?

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 14:29
Well, if Rachel wasn't killed i am not quite sure that Jefferson can be considered as criminal. That gilrs weren't naked. They weren't harmed in any way. Ans so... so what if they was underaged?

They were drugged and forced to do something against their will. That's illegal to begin with. In several instances, age plays a huge factor in the case; especially when it comes down to judgement.

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 14:41
They were drugged and forced to do something against their will.
Well, yes. It is like you drugged someone and wrote <censored> on their forehead. It may be illegal but not that much of a crime.

In several instances, age plays a huge factor in the case
Kate, for example, wasn't underaged.

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 14:53
Well, yes. It is like you drugged someone and wrote <censored> on their forehead. It may be illegal but not that much of a crime.

It is considered a crime if an illegal substance was used [For example: GHB: the date rape drug which is believed to be used on Kate Marsh, is an uncontrolled substance. It is a crime to use that drug in any form or fashion.]


Kate, for example, wasn't underaged.

I'm pretty sure that all BA students are around 18. But, (implying that the binders are all Jefferson's) we don't know about the other victims. [Hopefully none of them are minors because that is wrong on so many levels.]

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 14:59
[Hopefully none of them are minors because that is wrong on so many levels.]
it depends on what his cause was. I really do not think that this is so terrible. To drug someone and take some photos of them is bad, but... that's it. Just bad.

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 15:11
it depends on what his cause was. I really do not think that this is so terrible. To drug someone and take some photos of them is bad, but... that's it. Just bad.

Using an uncontrolled substance is a crime. Having them on your person is even a crime. It's not just "Oh, they used an illegal drug to tale some very disturbing and unauthorized photos, that's bad." It's "They used an uncontrolled substance to kidnap girls to photograph them in bondage. That is a crime punishable by law."

Just like how you said in another thread that Max "killing" Chloe in the alternate timeline is considered murder (which, in fact, is called assisted suicide). Both illegal and, in several states across the US (which LiS is based on), a crime. (But the AB police are too scares to do anything anyways.)

Now back to the topic, what inspired you to make this theory? It sounds something from mythology. (I'm a sucker for mythology).

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 15:21
That is a crime punishable by law.
Well, maybe you right, maybe it is punishable crime, i do not know, i am not law expert. I just think that his doings by itself is not that terrible.



Now back to the topic, what inspired you to make this theory?
I just wanted to justify this game for myself. Because now it actually seems pretty rotten to me.

It sounds something from mythology.
Well, yes, but i made this analogy after establishing theory itself.

StrangerThanFiction
6th Aug 2015, 15:29
I just wanted to justify this game for myself.

That's pretty creative for justification. I like reading theories that ; not only have a solid foundation, but also are so out there that it's like "whoa...this is so pit there but also possible at the same time."

[Q

Please forgive me. I'm waiting in a hospital surgery center while my mother is getting test done. Also, I'm sleep deprived so I'm going a bit crazy.

Xeva-q
6th Aug 2015, 15:33
Please forgive me.

Of course i forgive you! But, em... for what?

Sneddonator
8th Aug 2015, 06:59
The more i think of this theory, the more i hope its not correct. Its soo outlandish and too left field for me. I can take the supernatural aspect of the game to a point. But if this theory turns out true it will reduce this game to a b-grade sci-fi. Id have to write my own open letter to Dontnod requesting a refund.

Xeva-q
8th Aug 2015, 18:02
But if this theory turns out true it will reduce this game to a b-grade sci-fi.
But it have to be done either way, no matter if this theory right of wrong. After all they do have to give us some explanation, why storm is coming. And what Jefferson agenda was. And what Prescott's affair really is. And how they possibly could be aware of coming storm.

And all this answers must be tied together.

So... if they even could avoid it and not become b-grade sci-fi?

Xeva-q
9th Aug 2015, 12:57
I found this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCDdssRIYqk

Rehjul
10th Aug 2015, 02:00
According to this theory Jefferson is not a bad guy. No, far from it: he is a hero who successfully saved the world.

But first a little premise here.

Premise

1. The cause for disaster.

There is a popular theory out there that Chloe Price is destined to die. I thought is goes like this: if someone who originally was meant to die was saved by time travel it would cause the world to collapse in five days. But it turned out to be wrong: William was saved by time travel which caused no disaster.
Basicly it could means two thing:

-Disaster wasn't cause by Maxine power in a first place and would happen anyway.

-Chloe Price and Chloe Price alone must die for world to go on. Any other person can be saved by time travel besides Chloe Price. If Chloe Price would not die prior to specific date the world would end.

The first possibility does not worse than second in any way but for sake of my theory I would stick with second possibility for now. For first possibility this theory makes no sense.

2. Jefferson's agenda

We have in our hand the group of three (at least) people: Sean, Nathan and Mark. Every of this three people have their specific role:

-Shaun gives his money for this project.

-Mark performs an act itself.

-Nathan provides a perfect cover for kidnappings – the vortex club parties.

The work of three people, a crazy load of cash (about 1400000$!) and risk to be caught – only to develop some dirty photos? They could not show those pictures to anyone. Those pictures could not be sold for a good price – because there is nothing so special about them. With this amount of money one could develop photo like that on completely legal basis. You could just pay someone for being drugged.

Honestly, I do not buy it. There must be some good reason for all of this.

Theory itself.

There is a person (I labeled them as “Lamb”) who must be dead prior to specific date for world to survive. It is not clear either this person “marked for dead” or not, but their death is absolutely necessary. There is another person (I labeled them as Time Traveler) who could save the Lamb at some point causing the disaster.

And there a group of people (I labeled them as Keepers) who's goal is not let disaster to happen by any means necessary. By killing the Lamb and stoping Time Traveler for save them again.

In our case I think that Keepers exist for quite some time. This group, lead by Prescott family, successfully stoped disaster several times before. And now it is happening yet again.

With Maxine being a Time Traveler and Chloe being the Lamb. And there are three known Keepers: Mark, Sean and Nathan.

Keepers aware of gender and age of the Lamb and the Time Traveler but they know nothing else. The Lamb by themself have no specific qualities. But Time Traveler have. And thus, Keepers goal is to track Time Traveler down.

And so, those strange photos made not for artistic purpose. It is some kind of experiment that allows to test person time travel abilities. After all, we know as a fact that photo of time traveler have some special qualities about it. What if there is a way for another person to see it? And they have some toxin to disable one's time travel abilities.

But one member of the group started to break down. Nathan is simply to young for so much pressure. Most likely it started after death of Rachel Amber. She was killed by mistake, by accident or she was yet another Time Traveler.

Remember when Chloe made a step on the road that leads to her death the second moon was disappeared, indicating that world was started to return back to normal. And Jefferson is aware of coming disaster. And we must conclude that Jefferson performed an action that made the world go back to normal. And he have some anti time travel toxin on him.

Yes, it is differently looks that way: a person who aware of disaster performed an action that made disaster fade away. Maybe it was his goal all along?

The Keeper had successfully achieved his goal by killing the Lamb and capturing the Time Traveler. He is a hero who save the world.

The ending of episode 4 is actually a good ending.

Variation

There is a variation of this theory: the goal of their group is indeed capture a Time Traveler but not for a good cause.

Alternate Maxine in the Dark Room

There is some clues that makes me think that alternate Maxine can be a member of their group.

And so in alternative reality we also have one of the Keepers who successfully killed the Lamb.

Did somebody just watch Donnie Darko for the first time? Because this 'theory' seems to almost mimick the movie's story entirely, and there's almost nothing in the game to support it - outside of the idea that Chloe might be doomed from the start.

Xeva-q
10th Aug 2015, 02:04
Did somebody just watch Donnie Darko for the first time? Because this 'theory' seems to almost mimick the movie's story entirely.
This game mimics Donnie Darko's story even without this theory, you know.

Rehjul
10th Aug 2015, 02:06
This game mimics Donnie Darko's story even without this theory, you know.

Not in any way conceivable. Donnie couldn't willfully move back and forth through time; Donnie assumed several additional powers throughout his story, the most prominent of which being gifted the vision to see people's fate. The only time Donnie exhibits any time-turning abilities is during the movie's final portions, and that isn't him turning back time - it's the universe being set right. There are literally no similarities between this game and Donnie Darko outside of the aspects of time and the idea of alternate realities.

Xeva-q
10th Aug 2015, 02:12
Not in any way conceivable. Donnie couldn't willfully move back and forth through time; Donnie assumed several additional powers throughout his story, the most prominent of which being gifted the vision to see people's fate. The only time Donnie exhibits any time-turning abilities is during the movie's final portions, and that isn't him turning back time - it's the universe being set right. There are literally no similarities between this game and Donnie Darko outside of the aspects of time and the idea of alternate realities.

I'm not talking about Donnie's abilities but about story itself, but whatever...

there's almost nothing in the game to support it
Why, this theory have plenty of points, but, again, whatever...

Xeva-q
11th Aug 2015, 14:55
And yet another video on this matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqhaXdzMak

And it actually have a link on this topic. Woo Hooo. :)