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View Full Version : Did Dontnod go too far?! [SPOILERS]



meimeiriver
30th Jul 2015, 22:55
Okay, am I the only one who thinks Dontnod went too far?!

Basically, LiS has become an entirely different game. Had Ep. 4 ended the way Mari predicted (you know, with Mr. Jefferson just taking pictures of girls at the height of their beauty), it would have been hella awesome, and fit the overall tone of the game perfectly, and remained styllish, and clever about all the other stuff. Instead they went for overboard, shocking realism. Especially this photo and text put me over the edge:

I think they went too far. :( (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=490170815)

I feel they went so over the top with all the pervy stuff, there's really no way it can end 'normally' any more. Like Mr. Jefferson is now just a horrible psychopath, whose 'motives' have become marginalized because of the gruesomeness of his deeds.

Removing all traces of subtlety from the game, they might as well just nuke the entire place, and turn it into glass!

WazzuMan
31st Jul 2015, 02:52
A girl who went missing several months ago without a trace, that was never going to end well. Honestly this was all in the realm I expected when I first heard the story synopsis. I mean we've had teen pregnancy, abortion, drugs, suicide. Sure this episode is way darker than the previous episode, but considering one major character's survival was already determinant on our choices I knew Dontnod were not afraid to go down that path.

StrangerThanFiction
31st Jul 2015, 03:23
Okay, am I the only one who thinks Dontnod went too far?!

Basically, LiS has become an entirely different game. Had Ep. 4 ended the way Mari predicted (you know, with Mr. Jefferson just taking pictures of girls at the height of their beauty), it would have been hella awesome, and fit the overall tone of the game perfectly, and remained styllish, and clever about all the other stuff. Instead they went for overboard, shocking realism. Especially this photo and text put me over the edge:

I think they went too far. :( (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=490170815)

I feel they went so over the top with all the pervy stuff, there's really no way it can end 'normally' any more. Like Mr. Jefferson is now just a horrible psychopath, whose 'motives' have become marginalized because of the gruesomeness of his deeds.

Removing all traces of subtlety from the game, they might as well just nuke the entire place, and turn it into glass!

Life is Strange has been pushing a LOT of boundaries lately, so I wasn't really surprised about the whole bondage/drugged photo victim angle (I will admit that I was caught off guard with how deep they went into it though). I don't think that they've went TOO far. I think they went just as far as a TV show would; especially at this point. But I can understand that you feel that they went too far.

julietxjules
31st Jul 2015, 05:19
I totally disagree. The content to my mind is pitch perfect.

pleasenamesong
31st Jul 2015, 06:42
ANYBODY CAN TELL ME THE NAME OF SONG PLAY IN EVAN BEDROOM?

meimeiriver
31st Jul 2015, 07:52
Life is Strange has been pushing a LOT of boundaries lately, so I wasn't really surprised about the whole bondage/drugged photo victim angle (I will admit that I was caught off guard with how deep they went into it though). I don't think that they've went TOO far. I think they went just as far as a TV show would; especially at this point. But I can understand that you feel that they went too far.

Well, for one thing, I thought certain photos were waayyy too explicit. That wasn't necessary at all. It's one thing to engage your audience, it's quite another to just go for 'as shocking as possible.' And I'm worried sick about Max. :( Especially since Dontnod has proven that they are willing to go extremely far. Like, let me spell it out, do I really want to see/hear Max get r*aped in the next Episode?! I don't think so. Guess I don't trust Dontnod any more to keep it half-way decent. The Kate stuff was okay: some things were implied, but it never got gross or disgusting. And now? I feel I've just been watching another Episode of 'Criminal Minds.'


Honestly, whilst I'm soft-natured at heart, I *do* understand these things happen in RL. The question for me was, did I want to see it in LiS? I thought it was going to be about a beautiful, shy, young aspiring photographer, and the inter-relations between teens at a highschool and the usual EMO, laced with time-travel themes and weird environmental phenomena. You know, something fun and original.


I tell you, in truth, this game may have gotten too dark for me. And I'm kinda disappointed they took it in this direction. The problem is, that all the pervy stuff is so overwhelming, it kinda makes everything else insignificant. Like who cares now what Samuel's spirit animal is? Or why birds are dropping dead (on weird magnetic fields).


I tell you, shocking is easy. Like you say, every TV show can do that. Being subtle, however, and still be able to captivate your audience, that's hard. I say Dontnod failed in that regard, with Ep. 4. Although I'm sure many ppl loved it. And I respect their view. But whooza, I think it probably got a wee more 'intense' than I bargained for.

WazzuMan
31st Jul 2015, 10:57
You thought it would be a high school game but every character is an adult and the deuteragonist was expelled from the school in question. The synopsis I heard referred to the two best friends looking for the missing girl and uncovering dark secrets in their hometown. I knew what I was signing up for, I did the research I needed, it's why I played the game in the first place.

As for this idea of rape, it's not proven. Not even implied really. Had Max not mentioned something I never would have noticed anything in Rachel's mouth. Worse case, it was what you think it is. I think it could be vomit, which people choke to death on all the time when they are wasted or high and no one's watching them. It could be froth, a reaction to something in her system. Honestly I can't tell much from the picture at all so I will assume nothing. No doubt the villain will go into a monologue about his evil plan and why he did all the naughty things he did, giving our hero a chance to escape or some such nonsense.

UNKLEPhilosophy
31st Jul 2015, 11:12
Okay, am I the only one who thinks Dontnod went too far?!

Basically, LiS has become an entirely different game. Had Ep. 4 ended the way Mari predicted (you know, with Mr. Jefferson just taking pictures of girls at the height of their beauty), it would have been hella awesome, and fit the overall tone of the game perfectly, and remained styllish, and clever about all the other stuff. Instead they went for overboard, shocking realism. Especially this photo and text put me over the edge:

I think they went too far. :( (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=490170815)

I feel they went so over the top with all the pervy stuff, there's really no way it can end 'normally' any more. Like Mr. Jefferson is now just a horrible psychopath, whose 'motives' have become marginalized because of the gruesomeness of his deeds.

Removing all traces of subtlety from the game, they might as well just nuke the entire place, and turn it into glass!

No they not went too far this is perfect...

Xeva-q
31st Jul 2015, 11:54
A story can't be good without dead body.

BinnieBob
31st Jul 2015, 13:21
Yup vomit or froth in the mouth indicating 'accidental' death. The files shown at the end of the first episode showed how many victims there had been, but no other missing girls. Kate had no memery of what happened to her. The viral video of Kate seems not directly linked to later the later events. Jefferson was marked as a true mysogenist when he made that the lady doth protest too much remark in ep 2.
In reference to the link in op, there was nothing explicit in any of it, all about how you chose to read it. There has been nothing to point to rape or even any sexual assault, tho drugging and assaulting is bad enough.

meimeiriver
31st Jul 2015, 15:19
^^

I remember similar denial when people were talking about the new Lara Croft: "No, no, he isn't trying to r*pe her, it just looks that way." :) And I suppose people will also come up with a perfectly logical sounding way to deny what's happening on the pictures of tortured women on the wall of that bunker. 'Ok'

I'm going to work from the assumption you guys are right, though (lolwut?!). Not because I think you're right per se, but if I allow myself to think the other thing, then I can no longer even talk about this game.

So, as for Kate, Rachel was probably the only one who woke up. Kate was 'fortunate' to remain out during her ordeal, or she would have been killed too, for sure.

Working off the theory that Nathan is Mr. Jefferson's Apprentice, as it were, he's sloppy. Administering pharmaceutical drugs requires precise dosages. He probably foobarred with poor Rachel. :( The viral video is kinda confusing, though. There's a photo of Kate at the party, looking dosed. Assuming she didn't get drugged on two separate occasions, my guess is Nathan took her to Mr. Jefferson, right after she left the Vortex Party. But he was sloppy letting others in on it (like Victoria maybe? Who then decided to have a wee fun with her).

There's also the matter of Nathan having drugged Chloe (you can see a picture of a drugged Chloe, lying on her side, in Nathan's room). Since there's no binder for Chloe (!), the Mr. Jefferson's Apprentice notion leaps to mind; aka, he went 'solo' with Chloe (without Mr. Jefferson even knowing about it). He could also well be his dad's Apprentice, as Sean Prescott keeps texting/writing him to 'follow in his footsteps.'

BinnieBob
31st Jul 2015, 15:31
Not denial, not saying it isn't possible, saying it hasn't been made explicit. The whole stalky, sexual predator thing has been in the game since the first episode. As have many other issues.

Xeva-q
31st Jul 2015, 23:26
And if it was not just murder, but also some oral rape it makes this story just great! Trash, ugar i sodomiya! :D

Errol_Merwick
31st Jul 2015, 23:49
Okay, am I the only one who thinks Dontnod went too far?!

Basically, LiS has become an entirely different game. Had Ep. 4 ended the way Mari predicted (you know, with Mr. Jefferson just taking pictures of girls at the height of their beauty), it would have been hella awesome, and fit the overall tone of the game perfectly, and remained styllish, and clever about all the other stuff. Instead they went for overboard, shocking realism. Especially this photo and text put me over the edge:

I think they went too far. :( (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=490170815)

I feel they went so over the top with all the pervy stuff, there's really no way it can end 'normally' any more. Like Mr. Jefferson is now just a horrible psychopath, whose 'motives' have become marginalized because of the gruesomeness of his deeds.

Removing all traces of subtlety from the game, they might as well just nuke the entire place, and turn it into glass!

Please remember LiS' influences here, as evidenced by the license plates throughout the game: Twin Peaks, Six Feet Under... Not Downton Abbey. The first episode dumps a missing girl, a corrupt family, an attempted murder, devastating bullying, and a host of other mature topics right onto the players' consciousness. The second episode has a determinate teen suicide! Not to be rude, but... Didn't you know what you were in for? Yes, the earlier episodes were wrapped in a surreal, beautiful aura, an atmosphere more disarming and infectious than most games could ever hope to be (and the game still feels that way, only to a lesser degree), but that shouldn't lull you into a false sense of security. It's rated M for a reason. To me, it makes perfect sense that we've advanced to such darker places (pun intended) by this point in the series' progression. We had to get here sooner or later. I'm pleasantly reminded of David Lynch's incredible Blue Velvet, where the first quarter or so of the film paints a dreamy picture of the town it's set in, with some subtle clues as to it's real nature, but the rest of the movie is more candid about revealing the town's less than charming underside. I think this type of storytelling is masterful, displaying the veil and then the visage. I suppose it's up to you which you like better. I, for one, am gripped and enthralled by these events coming to a head, although there is part of me that misses the nostalgic downtime we had with Chloe and Max just sitting around, listening to music, groaning about step-douche and smoking weed! But now is the time for action, and I'm all aboard for that! :)

Alvare
1st Aug 2015, 00:31
Dontnod didn't go too far. It's the path they set out for the story.
They could even kill Max if they'd want to. Though I dont nod to seeing that happen.

meimeiriver
1st Aug 2015, 00:40
And if it was not just murder, but also some oral rape it makes this story just great! Trash, ugar i sodomiya! :D

Clearly you're not alone in thinking that way. And I'm trying to determine whether that's funny or sad. I'm going with sad, at the moment.

BinnieBob
1st Aug 2015, 07:10
I'm not at all sure what Xeva's point is. After rereading this, wondering what anyone could have expected to find in the dark room other than the evidence of sexual abuse that has been flagged all the way through. Wondering why some people find rape worse than murder, it isn't.

Xeva-q
1st Aug 2015, 09:11
I'm not at all sure what Xeva's point is.
My point is that this plot needs a little shake.

Wondering why some people find rape worse than murder, it isn't.
Because they're stupid. I am pretty sure if you force someone to choose between to be raped and to be murdered, murder would be chosen by pretty much no one.

s-jay2676
1st Aug 2015, 16:02
I'm not at all sure what Xeva's point is. After rereading this, wondering what anyone could have expected to find in the dark room other than the evidence of sexual abuse that has been flagged all the way through. Wondering why some people find rape worse than murder, it isn't.




Because they're stupid. I am pretty sure if you force someone to choose between to be raped and to be murdered, murder would be chosen by pretty much no one.

I'm no expert on this subject, but I think that you guys are generalizing too much, tbh. People are different, they have different fears and emotions and what applies to you, doesn't necessarily apply to others. The second thing is that rape victims have to not only experience the actual act, but they also have to live with it through their entire lives. I admire everyone who had to experience such a cruel crime and still has the strength to continue with their lives, because I think this is not easy. Murder, on the other hand, is an ultimate crime and, in my opionion, affects more the family members and friends of the victim. So yes, I actually think that rape is worse than murder and I guess, that makes me stupid, right?

Xeva-q
1st Aug 2015, 16:45
I'm no expert on this subject, but I think that you guys are generalizing too much, tbh. People are different, they have different fears and emotions and what applies to you, doesn't necessarily apply to others. The second thing is that rape victims have to not only experience the actual act, but they also have to live with it through their entire lives. I admire everyone who had to experience such a cruel crime and still has the strength to continue with their lives, because I think this is not easy. Murder, on the other hand, is an ultimate crime and, in my opionion, affects more the family members and friends of the victim. So yes, I actually think that rape is worse than murder and I guess, that makes me stupid, right?
Why, of course that is.

Alvare
1st Aug 2015, 16:46
We're discussing of what's worse? I'd say a person is equally sick in the head when committing either these acts.
The act of rape itself sure leaves the victim scarred for life. But for the victim itself, it makes it even worse if she's
murdered afterwards of course.

mysterycycle
1st Aug 2015, 18:55
I have heard some people say they'd rather be murdered than raped. And s-jay's right about the ongoing ordeal for rape survivors that lasts long after the initial trauma.

As to meimeiriver's original post, I sympathize. I personally have been engaged in the story, and feel as though the growing darkness of its elements were foreshadowed and have been surfacing in an organic fashion, but I also understand the desire to go back to the more light-hearted feel of the early episodes. While I have been enjoying LiS and am very eager for the final episode to be released, I would also happily have played a series that maintained that sort of wistful yet slightly offbeat visual novel-esque* tone throughout its entire run, without ever delving into police procedural-style darkness. I think that would be a really hard sell, but given the success/popularity of similarly unorthodox games, I think it could still work. I'd certainly enjoy playing it.

*Yes, I am aware of VNs like School Days.

Alvare
1st Aug 2015, 19:01
I have no doubt Dontnod will come up with something unexpected again. But they should definitely push the deadline a little further if they're aware that they can't make it in time. Because this last episode will be the biggest, I think.

Xeva-q
1st Aug 2015, 19:19
I have heard some people say they'd rather be murdered than raped. And s-jay's right about the ongoing ordeal for rape survivors that lasts long after the initial trauma.
So, rapist can show some mercy and kill their victim right after an act. And so victim wouldn't have to live with it through their entire live. Problem solved. lol

mysterycycle
1st Aug 2015, 19:39
So, rapist can show some mercy and kill their victim right after an act. And so victim wouldn't have to live with it through their entire live. Problem solved. lol

Show some basic decency, Xeva-q. It's not a ******** joke.

Xeva-q
1st Aug 2015, 20:30
Show some basic decency, Xeva-q. It's not a ******** joke.
You guys make it looks like exactly as one. :D

DOS_SkywalkR
1st Aug 2015, 21:00
with the psycho killer stuff i don't think they went too far, but killing Chloe, the second most important character in this game, within the last two seconds as if it was nothing, THAT's where they went too far in my opinion.

yeah maybe there is a possibility to go back saving her with another polaroid, but that's not guaranteed.

i loved the whole episode but turned away in disgust about that creative decision in the end and am not sure if i want to continue playing episode 5 after this.

Driber
1st Aug 2015, 21:16
Hey Xeva-q, if you're going to be purposely antagonistic towards fellow forum members, you're not going to remain one yourself for long. Please tone it down.

Regarding the rape topic, I'd advice everyone to keep in mind that opinions on rape are naturally going to differ from person to person. What may make sense to one person, may not make sense to another. We'd all do best to discuss different views in a respectful and tolerant way towards other members. No one is "right" or "wrong" :)

Xeva-q
1st Aug 2015, 21:35
Hey Xeva-q, if you're going to be purposely antagonistic towards fellow forum members, you're not going to remain one yourself for long. Please tone it down.

Regarding the rape topic, I'd advice everyone to keep in mind that opinions on rape are naturally going to differ from person to person. What may make sense to one person, may not make sense to another. We'd all do best to discuss different views in a respectful and tolerant way towards other members. No one is "right" or "wrong" :)
There was no any purpose, honest. It is cleary not my fault that everyone is wrong and i am right.

So, please, do as you see fit. It is your forum, after all.

Grimoire
2nd Aug 2015, 01:40
The forum is for everyone to enjoy. Back to the topic.

Tataboj
2nd Aug 2015, 19:33
It has exactly the mood and atmosphere I wanted. I want things to go darker but the same atmosphere that got me to this game to remain. That's exactly what happened in Dark Room.

LordBattleBeard
2nd Aug 2015, 19:58
Pushing boundaries is a good thing when done for a good reason. I detest games or any form of media that do it for shock value. This isn't the case here. The story was woven from the start to come to this end. It wasn't just inserted mid-story as a way to shock people. It's all been done very tastefully. A lot has (so far) been left to the imagination and I hope they continue down this track.

ScottBlows
3rd Aug 2015, 09:07
As I have mentioned in previous threads, if I keep receiving multiple reports for a specific individual it may result in their posting privileges being removed.

Please be considerate of others when posting on these forums.

Thank you

meimeiriver
3rd Aug 2015, 17:15
After a few days, I have recuperated a bit from all the shocking stuff in Ep. 4. Whether Rachel actually got the things done to her that I think, there's no 100% proof, although it looks pretty bad.

Mari (Geek Remix) had a beautiful theory:

Fan Theory: A Baseless Accusation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSdCHNwtK5Q)

It involved Jefferson drugging girls and taking black & white pictures of them, at the height of their beauty, That would have sufficed for me. It would still have still been 'psycho', but 'accpetable', story-fitting wise, as part of a semi famous black & white photographer taking his ideal too far. Yet, instead of capturing women at the height of their beauty, Dontnod let Mr, Jefferson go for outright sick torture (see photos on bunker wall): capturing them 'in a moment of desperation' -- as he literally announced, btw, in Ep. 1.

And now I feel the horrid psycho stuff basically overshadows everything, leaving hardly any room for the 'normal' stuff, like speculation about spirit animals, two moons, possible confluence of multiple realities, etc.: the pervy stuff just grabs all attention. And I have to admit I am saddened by that. In that sense alone even I think they went too far: the story simply didn't need to go this extreme. LiS would have set itself apart, showing you can go 'slightly psycho', and be wonderfully engaging, without going for full depravity, like they did.

spoopyskellyton
3rd Aug 2015, 18:11
I actually think they got it perfect with the pictures. They had to communicate the horror of what happened to these girls somehow, but they managed to do that without actually showing explicit sexual things etc. The pictures were horrifying without being overtly exploitative towards the player. No one could look at them, say that they thought they were "hot" or whatever and not be put in their place by other people. Because that would be completely messed up (but would totally be the case if this were another run-of-the-mill AAA title; so much sexual exploitation of female characters in those). While I agree that the photos were upsetting, they were meant to be upsetting, and it's up to you to determine whether you're still along for the ride or not. But I don't think they "failed" as you say, not at all. It just might be too dark for you or not up your alley. That's okay.

Also there is no actual evidence that sexual abuse was involved. It's implied, but at the same time it could be that Jefferson kidnaps & drugs these girls just to photograph them as he wants (which is bad enough, sexual abuse doesn't need to be involved to make him an irredeemable piece of **** who exploits girls). Like, it's supposed to make us think about sexual abuse and pedophilia (and the glorification and sexualization of "innocence") definitely and it does give off that vibe but I just want to remind you that in the context of the story it doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

meimeiriver
3rd Aug 2015, 18:22
I actually think they got it perfect with the pictures. They had to communicate the horror of what happened to these girls somehow, but they managed to do that without actually showing explicit sexual things etc. The pictures were horrifying without being overtly exploitative towards the player. No one could look at them, say that they thought they were "hot" or whatever and not be put in their place by other people. Because that would be completely messed up (but would totally be the case if this were another run-of-the-mill AAA title; so much sexual exploitation of female characters in those). While I agree that the photos were upsetting, they were meant to be upsetting, and it's up to you to determine whether you're still along for the ride or not. But I don't think they "failed" as you say, not at all. It just might be too dark for you or not up your alley. That's okay.

Also there is no actual evidence that sexual abuse was involved. It's implied, but at the same time it could be that Jefferson kidnaps & drugs these girls just to photograph them as he wants (which is bad enough, sexual abuse doesn't need to be involved to make him an irredeemable piece of who exploits girls). Like, it's supposed to make us think about sexual abuse and pedophilia (and the glorification and sexualization of "innocence") definitely and it does give off that vibe but I just want to remind you that in the context of the story it doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

For the record, I don't think I ever used the word 'failed' somewhere: I just thought they went too far with it (for my taste, at least). And, like I said in my last post, even if nothing sexually happened to these girls, which is unlikely, tbh, torture is bad enough (the capturing them 'in a moment of desperation' thingy). And one can seriously ask oneself whether the torture is't sexual for Mr. Jefferson to begin with it.

All-in-all, I wanted LiS to remain, well, like my sig pic.

DeAxiom
3rd Aug 2015, 19:20
Well, for one thing, I thought certain photos were waayyy too explicit. That wasn't necessary at all. It's one thing to engage your audience, it's quite another to just go for 'as shocking as possible.'

Honestly, LiS from episode 1 has been all about just how real life is, and that's scary. From bullying, to social clicks to class warfar. It was clear from the get-go that things were going to get just worse and worse.


The Kate stuff was okay: some things were implied, but it never got gross or disgusting.

I'd argue that the Kate stuff was far more explicit than anything else going on in LiS. The difference being that, Highschool bullying is so standard and pervasive that we don't see it as explicit. We get to see every aspect, angle, emotion, and carelessness that leads to Kate's attempt to jump. The alarming thing is that people were surprised at their inability to save Kate because we all just ignore bullying and hope it goes away.




I tell you, in truth, this game may have gotten too dark for me. And I'm kinda disappointed they took it in this direction. The problem is, that all the pervy stuff is so overwhelming, it kinda makes everything else insignificant. Like who cares now what Samuel's spirit animal is? Or why birds are dropping dead (on weird magnetic fields).


Perfectly acceptable, not every story is for every person. The assault is dark, but i'd argue no darker than social clicks driving a girl to suicide. Or the class difference that allows a kid that's disturbed and drugged to hell carry a gun. The biggest difference between the two is one is deemed unacceptable and the other is deemed inescapable.

OHWceta
11th Aug 2015, 18:02
Episode 4 certainly gave me a kind of "Lovely Bones" Vibe if you've read the book (which was much darker than the movie.)