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1stVanguard
10th Aug 2014, 23:50
I am listing changes that I truly believe would be a better all around balance for the game. This is not a complaint post, let me be clear, I have quickly become a huge fan of this game. This is not a "they are OP" post, but a serious attempt at a few stat changes that I believe would not be difficult to make or require over-hauls, but would effectively balance out the game-play. I am just listing the changes, as the reasons "why" would take too long. Feel free to agree/disagree as I'm sure you will anyway. I am only suggesting changes to (A) Things I believe would be better changed (B) Things I've personally used in-game. Thanks for your time.

Hunter:

Weapon:

Repeater: +5 damage, +5 clip
Multibow: +1 fire rate, -25 spread

Primary:
Whip: Increase "Stagger" effect by 0.5 seconds (or add a .5 second "Stun"), +2 seconds Cooldown

Secondary:
Explosive Shot: -35% Recoil

Alchemist:

Weapon:

Hand Cannon: +30 damage, +0.7 second load time

Fullbore Cannon: +75 damage, -0.3 fire rate, +1 second load time

Primary:

Sunlight Vial: +5 seconds Cooldown, -150 Radius, +2 seconds "Blind" time

Light Bomb: +50 damage

Secondary:

Fire Wall: +80 Area Damage, -30 Damage Over Time

Poison Cloud: +200 Area Radius, -1 Duration

Flame Thrower: +25 Damage/Second, +1 Duration, -50 Damage Over Time

Scout:

Weapon:

All Bows: -30 Damage, +2 Draw Time, +125 Draw Damage

Primary:

Throw Knives: +2 seconds of "Slow" time, +8 Cooldown

Secondary:

Volley: +1 Duration

Grappling Hook: I want to say make all available ledges usable by this hook and +10 Cooldown, but at the least, increase the grapple points on each map by double.

Prophet:

Primary:

Hex Shot: Minus the time it takes to execute this skill; more similar to "Bola"

Draining Curse: +200 Area Radius, -2 Duration

Reaver:

Weapon:

Sweeping Kick: +17 Cooldown, -50 Damage, +1.5 second "Knock-Down" effect

Sentinel:

Primary:

Wing Flap: -75 Damage, +1.5 Second "Knock-Down" effect

Secondary:

Air Strike: +150 Damage, +5 Cooldown, +0.75 Fuse Length, -50 Radius

Deceiver:

Weapon:

Dominate Mind: +50 Damage/Second, -2 Duration

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If you happened to have actually just read that, and have an actual opinion on some of my suggested adjustments, I'd like to hear your opinion. I don't expect anything to come of this, but as I said, I have quickly grown to like this game, and would very much like to see it thrive.

Saturnity
11th Aug 2014, 00:12
Hunter doesn't need buffs.

Alch could use tweaks to make up for a poor punishment game, but definitely not more damage per shot.

Scout bows already have problems with low sustained DPS and their burst damage is good as is.

Knives don't need a buff, it's already what Scout's personal defense revolves around.

Grapple on all ledges would be overpowered. I honestly can't see grapple being balanced properly without additional mechanics on it. As is, it'll either leave you too vulnerable to getting picked by vampires or it'll give you vantage points that are too strong for vampires to deal with, and whole teams will use it.

Hex is already really strong, the key part of beating a prophet is being able to dodge the hex. Hex doesn't need to come out faster.

Knockdown on sweeping kick creates death combos with charged melee -> kick -> charged melee; -50 damage wouldn't counteract it properly.



The other changes could work, but I feel like you're being too specific without providing any reasoning behind your choices. What effects in a fight are you trying to make with those changes and why?

Wikkyd
11th Aug 2014, 00:41
I disagree, I use the multibow and the spread is kind of annoying and although it has a 3-shot fire, it seems a little slow, but not too slow albeit technically faster firing than any other crossbow, when it fires the 3 rounds and all the damage on the crossbows seems a little low considering every other class weapon does more damage (by at least 20). I like using the multibow as it can definitely do a lot of damage over time but the spread is a bit of an issue and the smaller clip makes the multibow's damage lack luster, but by a small if not very small amount.

Anastros
11th Aug 2014, 00:43
From what I have experienced in game, I think a few simple tweaks would be in order to try and keep balance with the two factions:

1) decrease the damage the Alchemist's weapon does. One Alchemist can single-handedly drop a Tyrant from full to nothin on a single clip. Either that or decrease the clip size of the weapon.

2) the stagger for the Hunter's whip should be increased. Vampires seem to recover way too fast after use not giving you an opportunity to really retaliate like you should.

3) the Scout's grappling hook should be useful in more locations. It currently seems more like a gimic and not really advantageous.

4) the Prophet's life steal should deal more damage and steal more life (like, maybe 5% increase). Allows her to be a little less frail in combat.

5) the Reaver's pounce ability (all of them) should have a slight distance increase (maybe 5 ft).

6) the Tyrant's marathon ability should last longer (like more around 6 sec). This is to make a larger distinction between it and charge. Balance-wise I could see marathon then slightly decreased in damage, since it can last longer.

7) the Sentinel's echolocation should reveal enemy locations to allies. Or maybe even better, make a slightly different version of echolocation which pinpoints one enemy's location to allies (this would be a response to the Scout's marking ability).

8) the Deceiver's dominate mind ability should last 1 second longer, and have an increased influence distance by maybe 5 ft?


Okay, so some of these are taller orders than others, but this is what I have noticed playing the game. Also I am not a good guess of distance in games so if you guys disagree with my measurements feel free to make suggestions.

1stVanguard
11th Aug 2014, 01:02
Cool, thanks for the reply and opinion.

If I may address some of these:

"Scout bows already have problems with low sustained DPS and their burst damage is good as is."

Obviously everything is a personal opinion, but in my opinion: The Scout is the "Sniper" class of the Humans. It thrives on long shots, vantage points, and escape. My thought process was to downgrade the amount of damage the Scout does per shot, but increase the Drawn shot, hence making it more powerful "Sniper" shot and less efficient up close and personal shot. The grappling hook I agree on in some regards, it's hard to find a good balance for it, but I can't find it giving the Scout an unfair advantage in anyway, it would not be able to go anywhere a Vampire could not. Simply put, I find it's current mechanics lacking and not useful, too few grappling points.

"Knives don't need a buff, it's already what Scout's personal defense revolves around."

I don't use the word "buff" on anything, it's not a matter of buffing a weapon/stat/skill/ability, but rather adjusting it's mechanics and stats. I suggested adding time to the "slow" effect but also adding time to the cooldown, hence making it more effective, but less available.

"Hex is already really strong, the key part of beating a prophet is being able to dodge the hex. Hex doesn't need to come out faster."

I suppose we can just agree to disagree on this one. The Hex shot is not a bad ability, but it merely does 100 damage and a 50% slow effect for 3.5 seconds. I like the stats of this, no need to change them, but simply the "execute" time it takes for this skill. You click a button, and it takes (absolutely guessing) roughly 1.8 seconds before you fire the Hex shot. Now some of this can be alleviated by mapping different buttons, but as you have to keep on target during the process, I think it would just be better to speed up the shot itself.

"Knockdown on sweeping kick creates death combos with charged melee -> kick -> charged melee; -50 damage wouldn't counteract it properly."

Valid concern, but as I greatly suggest increasing the Cooldown on this ability by a whole 17 seconds, making it one of the high cooldowns, it could not be used nearly as often. The ability is focused on use in multi-opponent scenarios, thereby making a follow up attack potentially deadly. In a one-on-scenario, if you chain an attack, I would just consider that a good use of the skill.

"The other changes could work, but I feel like you're being too specific without providing any reasoning behind your choices. What effects in a fight are you trying to make with those changes and why? "

I honestly did not expect to be accused of being "too specific". Usually people are too vague in my opinion. I put time and effort into coming up with these numbers. I'm not sure what "reasoning" you're asking for but I would be happy to give it to you were you to clarify. The best answer I can give off-hand, is just that I believe these changes would help towards balancing out the gameplay. As to why... I would like to see this game reach its potential, to me that's enough of a why. I do thank you for your reply though.

1stVanguard
11th Aug 2014, 01:08
I disagree, I use the multibow and the spread is kind of annoying and although it has a 3-shot fire, it seems a little slow, but not too slow albeit technically faster firing than any other crossbow, when it fires the 3 rounds and all the damage on the crossbows seems a little low considering every other class weapon does more damage (by at least 20). I like using the multibow as it can definitely do a lot of damage over time but the spread is a bit of an issue and the smaller clip makes the multibow's damage lack luster, but by a small if not very small amount.

I may be in error here and please correct me if I'm wrong so I don't go on misjudging stats, but the Multibow does not have faster fire rate, in fact, it has the slowest fire rate. It's biggest difference, and I do like this difference, is that it has a 3 round burst.

Gyro999

If nothing else:

"7) the Sentinel's echolocation should reveal enemy locations to allies. Or maybe even better, make a slightly different version of echolocation which pinpoints one enemy's location to allies (this would be a response to the Scout's marking ability)."

I was unaware that the Sentinel's Echolocation ability did not reveal the enemy units to friendlies. I assumed that it did, if this is not the case, I completely agree with you on this.

Saturnity
11th Aug 2014, 04:01
Obviously everything is a personal opinion, but in my opinion: The Scout is the "Sniper" class of the Humans. It thrives on long shots, vantage points, and escape.The grappling hook I agree on in some regards, it's hard to find a good balance for it, but I can't find it giving the Scout an unfair advantage in anyway, it would not be able to go anywhere a Vampire could not. Simply put, I find it's current mechanics lacking and not useful, too few grappling points.

Specialization is fine and all, but in a game like this, you can't reasonably expect certain characters to hold positions towards the back due to poor 1v1 ability. Unlike a game like tf2, the entirety of the other team get into your hold within three seconds and they can single out anyone they want. There is no front line or dedicated flank; gimping a character's self defense into the ground is only going to make an underpowered character regardless of team coordination. 30 damage on drawn shots is not going to make up for 145-150 damage "rapid" firing.


I don't use the word "buff" on anything, it's not a matter of buffing a weapon/stat/skill/ability, but rather adjusting it's mechanics and stats. I suggested adding time to the "slow" effect but also adding time to the cooldown, hence making it more effective, but less available.

Knives already cannot typically be used twice during a teamfight unless both teams make serious mistakes and it drags on far longer than it should. A slow effect on knives on top of the hitstun would make scout too strong at 1v1s regardless of his damage, since he could just roll backwards and create a ton of space. Back when scout had ~10% higher dps and stronger burst damage, knives were already being considered for a nerf. A slow effect would overdo it.


I suppose we can just agree to disagree on this one. The Hex shot is not a bad ability, but it merely does 100 damage and a 50% slow effect for 3.5 seconds.

Hex disables all vampire attacks and skills in its duration. If you hit a vampire, they are completely helpless for either its full duration or until you do over 300 damage to them. That makes it the single strongest CC in the entire game by a wide margin, since vampires can even escape from bola by using an evasion skill. Not true with Hex. Hex needs the strong "tell" from its delay.

Also, the delay on it is closer to a second, if it's not slightly under a second.


Valid concern, but as I greatly suggest increasing the Cooldown on this ability by a whole 17 seconds, making it one of the high cooldowns, it could not be used nearly as often. The ability is focused on use in multi-opponent scenarios, thereby making a follow up attack potentially deadly. In a one-on-scenario, if you chain an attack, I would just consider that a good use of the skill.

The problem with this is that the kick death combo would immediately take a player out of the fight about three seconds in, and then you would be completely free to participate in killing other humans. Kick was very overpowered back when it did full knockdown, and a longer cooldown would not fix this.


Usually people are too vague in my opinion. I put time and effort into coming up with these numbers. I'm not sure what "reasoning" you're asking for but I would be happy to give it to you were you to clarify.

I mean what scenarios and matchups are you trying to change with these numbers? They're pretty specific changes.