View Full Version : Nosgoth Leagues Alpha Update

7th Jul 2015, 22:17
In case you missed it, last week (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/nosgoth-leagues-alpha-starts-today) saw the beginning of ranked match play with launch of League Rankings. Currently in Alpha, Leagues (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/intro-to-ranked-play) brings a deeper level of competition to the world of Nosgoth as players vie for supremacy against the top players in the world. It is incredibly exciting to see our hardcore fans duke it out on the ladder while earning some new in-game items in the process.

While the League system is in its early stages of testing, the response from the community has been astounding. We wanted to let you know that we will be extending the duration of League Rankings to run further testing, so it will end on Thursday July 9th, during this specific window:

11am PDT – 8pm PDT / 7pm BST – 4am BST

Use this (http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/event?lid=5391811&h=5391811&sts=23940420&sln=11-21&a=show&euid=cba3f48b-7640-5f34-7190-301522e6c371) converter to check local times.

We would like to thank everyone in the Nosgoth community for your support of League Rankings. The purpose of the Alpha is to test various systems on our end to help ensure a cleaner launch down the line. Your feedback has been incredibly helpful in pinpointing several key issues that we are currently working to resolve. Once again, thank you for your support and your patience as we continue to make Nosgoth even better.


In addition to addressing technical issues in League Rankings, the problem of Leavers (or, players who leave a game prior to its completion) has been clearly highlighted and we want to make it known that this is something we both recognise and will remedy as it is fundamental to improving the experience for everyone. Leaving a game early, especially while in League Rankings, disrupts the team balance and can have a serious impact on the outcome of a match. Currently when players leave a match early, they are penalized with the worst possible score for the match, similar to losing to a lower-ranked team. We take this unsportsmanlike behavior very seriously and we will be addressing the problem prior to our move into League Beta.

Punishment for Leavers during League play will be announced in the coming days. Please stay tuned for further announcements.

Finally, we would like to clarify the reward system for participating in the test phases of Leagues. For participating in the Alpha that is currently running, players are eligible for the following rewards:

For completing 5 ranked matches, all players will be rewarded with a player banner.
For competing in any ranked matches, all players will be awarded Double XP during those matches.
For competing in any ranked matches, all players have a chance to collect ranked-exclusive Occult item drops.

Please note that the exclusive Hunter Skin is not available during the Alpha.

Once the Alpha test of Leagues has ended and we move into the Beta phase, a new set of rewards will become available. These awards will be given out at the end of the Beta season, so players must achieve AND maintain a tier to receive the award of that particular tier.

For participating in the upcoming Beta season of League Rankings, players will be eligible for the following rewards:

Players finishing the Beta season in the Eternal tier will receive 4 chest keys and the exclusive Hunter Skin.
Players finishing the Beta season in the Platinum (currently called “Blood”) tier will receive 3 chest keys and the exclusive Hunter Skin.
Players finishing the Beta season in the Gold tier will receive 2 chest keys and the exclusive Hunter Skin.
Players finishing the Beta season in the Silver tier will receive 1 chest keys.
For completing 5 ranked matches, all players will be rewarded with a player banner.
For competing in any ranked matches, all players have a chance to collect ranked-exclusive Occult item drops.

We hope you enjoy battling up the ladder of the League Rankings and we’re looking forward to bringing more to you soon!

7th Jul 2015, 22:23
Thanks for the update, it was definitely needed....look forward to all of it.

8th Jul 2015, 01:01
All good to hear!

Just please make sure the bugs are fixed before the harsher penalties are implemented. As far as I can tell most of my 3v4s were caused by technical problems, not ragequits. I agree with penalties in ranked, but punishing people for the game's issues is just not kosher.

8th Jul 2015, 05:21
I have to say that I'm very impressed with players doing the honorable thing of sitting out in order to keep the balance. It happened during one of my matches tonight. Cheers to you, community members! :group_hug:

8th Jul 2015, 05:58
Just on the issue of finding matches and ping in competitive games, it is pretty concerning as an AU player to see that Psionix is considering widening the search of an AU player as far as the EU servers. I think most players who are attempting to play a semi serious ranked type match would like to see sub 100 pings in these matches. In practice expanding the AU search as far as US west may be necessary to ever find a match given the current player count, but I think EU/oceanic matches are a very bad idea. Competitive gaming and pings above 300 don't mix.

P.S. thanks for the update, much appreciated.

8th Jul 2015, 07:05
Granted I was only able to play 4 games so far,
but in all of them the "LEAVER" was on my friendlist and reported crashing, with only one guy actaully leaving because he was unable to spawn into the first round.

While leavers have always been a problem, there are so many bugs, crashes and random stuff that increasing the penalties seems to be a bit weird for me. The focus should be on stableizing the game and making sure leavers are being replaced swiftly.
The penalty is fine for now as it is.
ALso - making sure people can rejoin a game that they were forced out of to NOT get penalized and being able to continue should also be a major focus.

8th Jul 2015, 07:24
Is there a chance we see tweaking of the times? For the biggest part of europe, we get to start at 8pm. Meaning 2-3 hours maximum for the vast majority of players with responsibilities in life.
Personally I struggled to get even a couple matches while I would have plenty of time in the 11am-8pm timeframe of the US players.

Any chance the times can be switched or changed?

About the leavers:
People even leave while 10 points in the lead etc. I really really doubt they just left intentionally. Gathering feedback from friends, crashes still seem to happen very often.
From my 10 first matches i had 6 leavers in total. For some reason all on my side, be it winning, losing or even matches. Havent played against a team of 3 yet. Some kind of item configuration possibly?

Crashes happend also a lot before the ranked matches, people are just more frustrated about it. The crashed lost his pressumably more important "rank" match and the 3 team mates got no chance for a replacement most likely resulting in a loss too. Though we also turned 3v4 matches in our favour.

One more thing: Please dont bring Australians to EU servers, 350-400 ping is no fun for anybody in the match. It has nothing to do with Austria.

8th Jul 2015, 09:49
I don't believe the times are changing, as they need to span across a time that'll suit the US as well as EU, but I'll share the feedback with the team here (as well as on the other points).

8th Jul 2015, 09:55
I haven't commented on the other league threads yet, so I'll do so here. I've done about 9-10 league matches and here's the issues I've encountered:

1) Region Merging. This is number 1 issue I'd like to bring up, because it can't be "fixed" by some other means (like the second issue), its a design decision and its a wrong one IMO. Also this hasn't been mentioned enough due to other more evident technical issues that kept the most attention.
The very first match in leagues I have been placed on east american server, as I later found out, with 5 EU and 3 American players (from BOTH west and east america). So the majority of the players (EU) had pings 130-170. I enjoyed it in full, missing sentinel grabs while flying through the center of a nondodging player model, missing scout warbow charged shots with tracers clearly piercing the vamp models and, you know, that kind of funny stuff. We lost 52-54 (the player setup was good MMR-wise) and, obviously, it left a salty feeling.
This situation highlights a basic contradiction - I have come to play League expecting a serious competetive game (compared to casual TDM) and the design decision exclusive to this mode - region merge - really ruins the competetive critical performance. If the basic idea for league's competetive spirit was to find closer player skill matches, then it should really sacrifice something less critical to the core idea - not the match performance, but, for example, queue times (at least allow people to opt into that). So in this given example players have the option: If you want a quick match like NOW you can play TDM, if you want a closer matched skillful game, you can wait a bit more and actually get it - then there would be a point in this. Thus, Region Merge idea fits basic TDM more than the serious League (and I dislike the idea anyway).

2) No Leaver replacements. Idk how this came up as an intentional design decision, but its a really bad one and at least the devs can see a lot of immediate feedback on that. Leaver problem is big in Nosgoth, acknowledging it is the first step, but how would substituting a timetested and working method (replacements) with another generally untested method (harsher leaver penalties?) really fix this? The post is obscure in that regard, so we may only guess how will the leavers be adressed, but i hope its not simply more penalties, as there are many more crashing/freezing people in this particular mode.
I've elaborated quite a bit on the leavers-(dis)encouragements problem and the prerequisites to the punishment system (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=157172&p=2135548#post2135548) implementation before.

Anyway, i do not quite understand why was there the initial decision to make no replacements in league. I think the only thing I've seen in that regard was a short comment in some other thread about the problem of league ranking calculation for a replacement player (probably a loss) - being not just and penalising to him. Why not take a player from the general TDM pool and make no changes to his league standing/points then, as if he played his normal TDM? Any player is better than no player , you know :friends:
The only reasonable thing that can partially substitute the replacement system (that is if intentional leavers are adressed 100% properly) is the reconnect option. But thats a far off point in the future, so i think the replacements are really a necessity.
There can also be a bit less fluent idea to allow concede votes by "majority + 1" (thats like 5 out of 7 and 4 out of 6 players), for example, with no league points changes as a result.

3) The well known Sync problem.

4) The Timeframe - A shift to at least 1 hour earlier would be very beneficial for eastern EU and russian players (can't really play Sunday-Thursday with respect to our dayjobs) and its even more important now, when you've added more rewards. I want the chance to open 3-4 of those 64 chests! :whistle:

5) Cosmetic - those "favourite classes" on league tab changed after i played simple TDM and no league matches, and even then only my last X games (maybe 3-4) were taken into account. Statistics on that tab haven't changed, so its ok i guess.

P.s. Dear Psyonix, keep up the good work, don't get discouraged by the negative feedback, and don't take critique too close to heart :D League is an awesome idea, and i'm more excited by it than by any of the modes, actually!

8th Jul 2015, 10:21
An extension of even 1 hour earlier would do good. 2 or 3 would be great for everybody not in the US or GB.

8th Jul 2015, 10:44
Just to give a quick feedback on the League system, I would like to say to make a proper "re-join" button before adjusting the leaver penalties specially since many people are getting stuck at a lobby or just game crashes, don't know why but on league matches its often the case.

Also point distribution during the first five positioning matches is just absurd, people get to many points for winning the first few matches and get such a high rank they cant drop off it at all, and speaking of fist matches I hope there will be a level limit in latter builds maybe not in beta but the final should have a level cap, many older players can confirm that playing a match with people that have 17 hours is very annoying.

Oh yes and one final thing before you will make the beta please do something about hit detection it's still a problem and you can feel it special while playing scout or prophet, like the sound of a hit is there so is the "x" crosshair even the red bar shows up but the enemy doesn't take damage so just as a reminder its still an issue.

8th Jul 2015, 22:20
I honestly like that the top tier is called "Blood." It makes sense that blood would be a precious commodity in Nosgoth, so having it be the name of the highest tier is appropriate. ;)

8th Jul 2015, 23:16
would there be any way to apply the witchfire FX from one ability to another in a future forge update...I have some I don't intend on using and would love a witchfire sweeping kick

Also please think about implementing a permanant recharge fee on weapons and abilities. say like 1000 runestones to have a weapons never decrease. draining on blood viles and gold is very annoying, and with a decrease of about 3% percent a match they don't last long.

9th Jul 2015, 00:06
Please note that the exclusive Hunter Skin is not available during the Alpha.

Once the Alpha test of Leagues has ended and we move into the Beta phase, a new set of rewards will become available. These awards will be given out at the end of the Beta season, so players must achieve AND maintain a tier to receive the award of that particular tier.

Let me save you from making a horrible design choice that will further diminish the pool of active players. It is absolutely essential that these rewards be for the highest tier achieved, rather than the current tier. Otherwise players will immediately stop playing league matches once they achieve Eternal tier so that they don't risk losing their rewards. Players struggling in the lower tiers are also likely to stop once they feel they cannot realistically reach the next tier. So long as they can unlock the skin I think your average player would be really hesitant to risk it in pursuit of additional keys.

If you make this simple change and address the leaver issue League play might have a chance of reviving the player base to some degree. If you really want to make a splash give players the option to start a surrender vote if their team is losing by a significant margin (requiring a majority to pass). This would dramatically reduce the incidence of leavers as players would no longer have to waste 15+ minutes on a lost cause.

9th Jul 2015, 05:05
Having played the leagues and reached Gold I, I can safely say that it's really not hard to get and maintain a ranking that will get you the rewards. Even if you're on a losing team, if you do well enough, you'll still earn points. So I don't think having it be based on the rank you have at the end of the round should be a problem.

10th Jul 2015, 15:34
A big thank you to everyone for joining our Nosgoth League Alpha release! We'll share more detail soon on the next phase (Beta) :)