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View Full Version : Ping-Pong tyrants need to go



Da_Wolv
30th Jun 2015, 11:30
Since I read so many Sentinel nerf posts (with which I somewhat agree), I thought to myself, what about that age old Tyrant thing?

Still, there are players that somehow manage to change their directions and ping-pong between walls like a gum ball, making it impossible to dodge them. Meanwhile when I play Tyrant, it feels stiff as a brick tied down with lead weights and even when it looks like I hit someone, I fade through them like a ghost.

I cannot pinpoint to what it is, but something about Tyrant is very wrong, and it has been that way forever.

MasterFurbz
30th Jun 2015, 14:35
Since I read so many Sentinel nerf posts (with which I somewhat agree), I thought to myself, what about that age old Tyrant thing?

Still, there are players that somehow manage to change their directions and ping-pong between walls like a gum ball, making it impossible to dodge them. Meanwhile when I play Tyrant, it feels stiff as a brick tied down with lead weights and even when it looks like I hit someone, I fade through them like a ghost.

I cannot pinpoint to what it is, but something about Tyrant is very wrong, and it has been that way forever.

Having low framerate (around 30fps) makes charge more malleable, since the server has less frames to interpret where your position is. Sometime back they made charge collide less against walls, the upside was that charge wasn't constantly getting flase positives while moving along walls. The downside is the ping-pong effect you sometimes see on low fps/high ping players.

If the charge collision was made more evident they'd have to severely reduce the stagger at the end, otherwise the skill would be unusable imo. Then we would run back into the charge/shockwave combo that everyone hated so much. Unfortunately there's always some unintended consequences to even the smallest of changes.

barthez36663
30th Jun 2015, 18:53
No, no no, leave the tyrant alone. He is already high risk high reward and nerfing him would render him useless. Nerfing charge would be disaster, jump is already obsolete for most players. He is finally playable after meelee changes.
He is not impossible to dodge, basic awerness friend. Dont position yourself in tight spaces. Ive never problems wih avoiding it unless its suprise or a combo. And vampires need combos to be effective. And honestly, just practice, I was unable to charge in other directions than straight line at the beggining, now im almost level 25 on him and i can do slalom around pillars on crucible etc.
Be careful with word "nerf", people wanted huner nerf, which was good but he was overnerfed, just like vanguard.

TheMalgot
2nd Jul 2015, 19:11
I agree. Tyrants need a nerf.

Da_Wolv
2nd Jul 2015, 20:01
Its not about NERFING.
Its about making it more reliable to use and removing the exploits.

ApollosBow
2nd Jul 2015, 21:10
fix it without nerfing him.

barthez36663
2nd Jul 2015, 22:01
edited*

Cristari
5th Jul 2015, 00:59
If you feel Tyrant is sluggish try using a better DPI Mouse and use the A & D keys while turning to turn faster bouncing off walls is a skill that Sentinels can also use I don't see why Tyrants shouldn't be able to.

barthez36663
5th Jul 2015, 15:26
Tyrant actually needs this wall bounce to be effective and to not stop on everything, cos he is too big, youll most of the time at least scratch the wall in some places. and honestly its niot that hard to dodge a charge most of the time

senjuj
5th Jul 2015, 16:48
yea rebound tyr is not a problem. Do something with pterodactyles. :D

barthez36663
5th Jul 2015, 18:32
Pterodactyles need only its wings range fix nothing more , Ive been hit by it from about two steps away from his wings and still got me, maybe not only turelim got telekinesis power XD

FireWorks_
6th Jul 2015, 09:00
This thread is not about a nerf, its about abusing low frame rates.

Louves
7th Jul 2015, 13:05
It should not matter on what fps or mouse sensitivity you are playing. Those abilities should always work the same way. I just wonder how the Tyrant is intended to work. What's the "normal" strafing (the use of A&D keys)? The 15 fps version? The 30 fps version or the 60 fps version (a.k.a almost not existing)? Can a dev please clarify that?


To fix ping-pong tyrants the game could implement a stricter turn-rate limit during tyrant charges instead of sensitivity changes, similar to sentinels (I don't play tyrant too much so I don't know whether charge has a turn-rate restriction already).

I think he already has a turn-rate restriction.

Harmaatukka
12th Jul 2015, 05:18
I'm with Louves on this one, I'm starting to feel like I'm the only tyrant on ESL not using this low FPS turn rate "bug", can you please finally respond to this, because if it's intended that you can strafe to make full turn with tyrant, then I will start using FPS scripts as well just for charging.

barthez36663
12th Jul 2015, 17:52
Wall bounce needs to stay.
Turning around rapidly in circle must go

Toadzillasenpai
13th Jul 2015, 14:17
Wallbounce is fine, but something like this http://www.twitch.tv/dotantipro/v/7334679 (@1 hour and 3mins - ) needs to go.
I mean its sooo stupid .... just go in the Video settings and reduce the max FPS to 30fps and you can do ridiculous moves like this!
You simply cant dodge such charges.... and 90° / 180° turns are also completly too strong!

Da_Wolv
17th Jul 2015, 14:28
Still a huge problem.
This needs a fix like yesterday.

http://www.twitch.tv/dawolv/v/7839304

EDIT:
Not saying people are maliciously abusing it. I guess some people just have total garbage PCs and can run the game any higher than 30FPS, but this is just ridiculous. Either make Tyrant work like that for all of us or fix it.

riccetto80
19th Jul 2015, 20:17
lol and people in tournament exploit this thing?

MasterShuriko
19th Jul 2015, 20:49
That us abuse no matter have u look at it........

Ghuldarkar
19th Jul 2015, 22:00
This exploit is really very annoying and the biggest problem is not even that they can zig zag, but that they keep forward movement speed while switching sides extremely fast and they're doing it on open field, not with walls or anything. Also i'm noticing getting shot by the same guys as scouts, when they should not be able to shoot me anymore (for example because I just side dodged as sentinel when they shot, but i guess their pc told the server that it was a hit, because he didn't have that frame where i was outside); can anybody comment on this assumption too, please? To me it looks like the game favours low but steady fps compared to higher fps :/

Da_Wolv
20th Jul 2015, 07:50
I'm with Louves on this one, I'm starting to feel like I'm the only tyrant on ESL not using this low FPS turn rate "bug", can you please finally respond to this, because if it's intended that you can strafe to make full turn with tyrant, then I will start using FPS scripts as well just for charging.

Here's the thing Harmaa;
I don't care if the devs come out of the woodwork now and say that this is actually intended (though I don't believe it is).
I am not terribly annoyed that it's possible, but that you have to mess with your settings to do it (except for those ppl who just can't have more than 30-40FPS anyway)

I don't know why still no Dev commented?
Either remove this, or make it so we can all do it!
I learned to cope with it and I know the 3-5 prominent Tyrant players that use/abuse this "feature" - all I'm asking for is that you let the rest of us in on the fun, or get rid of it entirely!

FireWorks_
20th Jul 2015, 11:37
Here's the thing Harmaa;
I don't care if the devs come out of the woodwork now and say that this is actually intended (though I don't believe it is).
I am not terribly annoyed that it's possible, but that you have to mess with your settings to do it (except for those ppl who just can't have more than 30-40FPS anyway)

I don't know why still no Dev commented?
Either remove this, or make it so we can all do it!
I learned to cope with it and I know the 3-5 prominent Tyrant players that use/abuse this "feature" - all I'm asking for is that you let the rest of us in on the fun, or get rid of it entirely!

A prominent statement on this matter would be much appreciated. Even if they say "not fixable in the next few weeks since we have priorities". At least transparency. The current ignorance is ... no so nice.

Shikei001
20th Jul 2015, 11:50
http://www.twitch.tv/dotantipro/v/7985971?t=5h06m30s

It just looks so weird that I can't imagine that it is intended.
And I'm totally with DaWolv on this, if you have a bad PC you would use this "feature" accidentally.
That means it is a mistake from the developer, the worst part about this is that there are no statements to this topic.
I would rly like to hear if this issue can or will be adressed...

MasterShuriko
20th Jul 2015, 15:01
Tis monday and I was hoping we would get some answears today on this topic and another ^^

riccetto80
20th Jul 2015, 16:26
Either remove this, or make it so we can all do it!
I learned to cope with it and I know the 3-5 prominent Tyrant players that use/abuse this "feature" - all I'm asking for is that you let the rest of us in on the fun, or get rid of it entirely!

*

agree, or for everybody to use it or for no one, is not correct some player can use it some other no.

Saikocat
21st Jul 2015, 15:16
Hey guys,

I don't have any significant to update this thread with just yet, but I have sent on the detail to see if I can get any news or info for you. Bear with us. At the moment, there is a different issue happening that may be affecting this or making it more prominent.

Ghuldarkar
21st Jul 2015, 15:51
At least we get aknowledgement of this very serious problem. I could also provide a nosgoth recording of a very extreme example of a tyrant going crazy with the zig zag and close turns. Avoiding this charge was basically luck and preknowledge of the tyrants position.

senjuj
21st Jul 2015, 16:33
I agree that the lords of insane loops and zig-zag should be blamed.

Guardian1uk
21st Jul 2015, 18:09
instead the more fun combo these days is enrage, grab, charge and usually dead human.

Blackpaw
25th Aug 2015, 08:30
Hey, this issue still has not been addressed yet, correct? I was a huge fan of nosgoth before people began abusing exploits like this and am waiting for a level playing field to get back into it.

Harmaatukka
25th Aug 2015, 11:20
The exploits that allowed faster turning rate on tyrants have been fixed.