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View Full Version : Please make the lethal takedowns silent



Bansai
28th Jun 2015, 22:57
Seriously, I beg you guys, they can grant less XP, fine, a fair trade-off for not being able to get up, but for the love of all that's holy make them silent, let those cool kill animations be a viable option.

It didn't make much sense when Jensen was breaking bones 5 meters away from npces and they were oblivious, but when you ran a blade cleanly and quickly through their throats they behaved like there was an explosion.

I am more of a stealth "aggresive" player so please don't leave me hanging again.

Bansai
16th Jun 2016, 12:42
Me again, just bumping the topic, I really want to buy this game day one, but I don't know if I'll enjoy it without those silent lethal takedowns, I've been watching some gameplays and I still can't get a clear answer...

Shralla
16th Jun 2016, 16:26
Nobody responded because it's a bad, broken idea. If you seriously won't enjoy an entire game because of something like lethal takedowns making noise, you didn't actually want to play that game in the first place. Go play an action shooter.

Bansai
16th Jun 2016, 17:17
Nobody responded because it's a bad, broken idea. If you seriously won't enjoy an entire game because of something like lethal takedowns making noise, you didn't actually want to play that game in the first place. Go play an action shooter.

Could you elaborate how exactly is it broken idea? Or are you just here to condescend me with a stupid rebuttal about action shooters? I loved DE:HR, but I found it inconsistent that throwing and punching was more silent than slicing a throat, but I think those kind of conclusions are too far reaching for you. Good day.

Itkovian_
17th Jun 2016, 18:36
I agree it's strange, and a stealth lethal takedown aug may be a good compromise, though I think ultimately it is a gameplay decision: if you want to be stealthy, you need to take the added "risk" of staying non-lethal and having the guards wake up behind you.

In theory it's a nice idea, though the fact that 99% of the time your victims never wake up somewhat takes away from that concept (It'd be better if they could wake up after a while and sound the alarm, unless you too extra steps to ensure they stay out, like using tranqs on them).

That said, unless you're saying you actively disliked DX:HR due to this single issue, I'm not sure it makes sense to avoid DX:MD just for that.

xaduha3
17th Jun 2016, 23:41
It doesn't really matter, but it just follows the tradition, probably as far back as Thief. Sword is not a silent weapon, blackjack is. In real life people sometimes (often?) don't die instantly, even when fatally wounded they fight back or at least scream.

georgedonahue1978
21st Jun 2016, 13:50
It may not make much sense realistically, but from a game viewpoint, developers wanted to reward non-lethal approach, so they generalized from guns to all lethal takedowns. An acceptable decision, in my opinion, just use some disbelief suspension.

Bansai
21st Jun 2016, 20:51
It may not make much sense realistically, but from a game viewpoint, developers wanted to reward non-lethal approach, so they generalized from guns to all lethal takedowns. An acceptable decision, in my opinion, just use some disbelief suspension.

That would make sense IF... if the silenced pistol wasn't killing them silently, it's more effective at stealth than any other weapon or mechanic in the game, however I just love to do takedowns on everyone cause it's more challenging in stealth games than sniping from safe distance, and it always bugged me that in HR enemies behave like I set off a grenade after a lethal takedown, where bullet to the head or breaking bones in non-lethal takedown is considered 'silent'.

It just doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever, I can kill an enemy very easily with a bullet to the head [not really fun to me], silently, but I can't do so with a cool kill animation from up close and personal which was more challenging.

Shralla
22nd Jun 2016, 04:06
You can miss with a gun, and if you miss the bullet ricochet makes a noise and puts guards on alert. You literally cannot miss no matter what with a takedown. The takedowns are what have no challenge, they never did.

simon-a-billington
11th Jul 2016, 10:03
I agree. It may be lending a little from Hitman, but despite that I think the game may benefit from a silent takedown. It opens up the options for players.

Shralla
15th Jul 2016, 03:03
If you want it to be silent, make it non-lethal. Problem solved. That is an option. Making a lethal takedown do everything isn't an option, it's overpowered.

simon-a-billington
18th Jul 2016, 10:41
Man, I can't believe i forgot about this. That's usually how I play on a personal level...

How cool would it be though if you can quickly grab some one, tap them in the head from behind with a silenced shout, then quickly lowering the body so it doesn't hit the deck with aloud thud.

neoWilks
18th Jul 2016, 19:01
If you want it to be silent, make it non-lethal. Problem solved. That is an option. Making a lethal takedown do everything isn't an option, it's overpowered.
How is it overpowered? It's the same action, same input, the description on the body simply reads "dead" instead of "unconscious."

Deus Ex shouldn't be introducing gamey, binary options to incentivize any particular playstyle. If something makes noise, it's because it should make noise. If something is silent, it's because it should be silent. The game should be simulating, not moralizing.

xaduha3
18th Jul 2016, 21:35
Gotta love the forums, where people focus on replies that they consider wrong instead of ignoring them. It's all good, gets the conversation going.

Traditionally silent weapons are silent because they affect the brain. Unconscious, think about that word for a moment. So unless you want Jensen to start piercing people through their eyes like T-1000 or holding their mouths shut while snapping their necks you should just deal with having non-silent permanent takedowns.

DXsyn-9VLVA

neoWilks
19th Jul 2016, 21:43
Traditionally silent weapons are silent because they affect the brain.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on. A bludgeon attack to the skull isn't quiet. Tasers make loud zaps or ticking sounds. Neither of these are quieter than a blade to the throat. Even restricting airflow to render a subject unconscious won't be quiet. The victim will surely be struggling as much as possible.

The issue isn't that you lethal attacks should be silent, it's that silent attacks should be silent. And those that aren't shouldn't. Jensen tapping someone on the shoulder and then cold-cocking them in the face shouldn't allow you to avoid detection just because the guy isn't dead.

xaduha3
20th Jul 2016, 01:26
DX isn't a simulator, HR and MD don't even have melee weapons. All they do have are letal and non-letal attacks with different, random animations. I'm 99% sure letal takedowns are still going to alert enemies, like in HR. As for non-lethal shooty weapons, then they weren't silent in HR, for the most part.

neoWilks
21st Jul 2016, 08:12
DX isn't a simulator
Sure, it is. An imperfect simulation, but a simulation nonetheless.

Moreover, encouraging specific tactics by applying arbitrary and lopsided benefits is antithetical to the idea that Deus Ex should be letting players act naturally and intuitively. It's no different from the imbalanced experience rewards for HR's takedowns that was widely criticized. Players start making decisions, not because it makes the most narrative, tactical, ethical sense, etc, but because doing things one way gives them 50XP more than another. When you coach players to game the system for the greatest abstract rewards, you're at odds with the immersive experience Deus Ex ought be about.

xaduha3
21st Jul 2016, 15:26
I was talking about a simulator as a game genre, obviously every game that has humans in it simulates real life to some extent. I'm all for making things make more sense and as long as lethal takedowns are in the game it makes sense to keep them non-silent. That's what we are talking about here, right?