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View Full Version : Appeal to developers: No to gameplay simplification, non-stop special actions



47andrej
27th Jun 2015, 14:47
I buyed Human Revolution actually long after game release and wasnt certain about purchase. I'm not a big fan of fantasy games and play mostly military shooters and strategy. But i got really fascinated by this game, their oscar-worthy sci-fi world and very, very solid game mechanics. I, as middle skilled player, consider DE:HR fight mechanics rather perfect!

Im really looking toward new Deus Ex game. But when i read those announcements about more energy cells, probably autoreplenishment system i'm getting worried. It was just about right when you got about 3 special attacks per infiltration, just in case you had to be quiet or was low on munition/health.
If you would stabb your enemy with blades on every second hallway it wouldnt do anything good to gameplay. Bling-bling non-stop action-moves is something for fighting games like Streetfighter. Secondly, player gets fast saturated by constant flow of super-moves.
Devs please consider not to overstretch energy amount and autoreload!

Second case are boss fights, they were tough but no way undoable. For example i had to replay a bit before fight to gather more augmentations, because, i actually dont gave a **** about augmentations before. After some attempts i got boss defeated! And boy, it did good!

Please dont lower game difficulty! I dont want too choose very hard because it would screw game mechanic elsewhere.

I know, that actual game trends are game streamlining and simplification together with constant action on screen. I consider this principles cancer.
Folks feel free to support this approach!

Tverdyj
29th Jun 2015, 17:56
Welcome to the lost cause, brother, :)

Irate_Iguana
29th Jun 2015, 18:47
The fight against the decline is a lost cause, but a worthy one nonetheless.

47andrej
3rd Jul 2015, 17:15
Guys, why do you consider this lost cause? I haven't read about any community actions in this direction.

Shralla
3rd Jul 2015, 22:56
That's because you literally just got here, after we have been fighting against the decline since years before Human Revolution even came out. They didn't listen to us then, and they aren't listening to us now. The voices of the people who would rather the game be a shallow power fantasy are much louder.

Head over to the old Eidos forums and check the mod tool/SDK thread if you don't believe me.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Jul 2015, 00:13
They didn't listen to us then, and they aren't listening to us now.
Listening does not equate to "agreeing". Its about taking our suggestions into consideration.

In HR, they listened and made the highlighting system and objective arrows optional for players, for example.
They appear to be making further improvements for MD based on fan feedback (eg. boss fights and silent take-downs).


The voices of the people who would rather the game be a shallow power fantasy are much louder.
They are? :scratch:

SageRhyme
1st Sep 2015, 10:02
Listening does not equate to "agreeing". Its about taking our suggestions into consideration.

In HR, they listened and made the highlighting system and objective arrows optional for players, for example.
They appear to be making further improvements for MD based on fan feedback (eg. boss fights and silent take-downs).


They are? :scratch:

Yeah that would be nice if they actually provided options for the biggest complaint they ever received about the game.

Object Highlights, Waypoint nav beacons don't really damage the gameplay -- the number 1 complaint was the simplification of melee combat with the "Take down" system and the forced 3rd person perspective shifts.

I see no option to turn these off, yet this is literally the number one complaint about DX:HR and they brought it right over into the new game, which by and large looks tremendously better than HR, so it's extremely sad to see the BIGGEST DETRACTOR of the game and the feature that generated the MOST COMPLAINTS is being carried over with still no options to disable it.

They listened about the Highlight. They listened about the Way point markers. They listened about the boss fights, not a single one of these was as big an issue as the over simplification of melee combat and forced third person actions.

If they listened about this the game would be excellent, but nah -- it'll just be "OK" like HR was. Giving me a headache constantly because of the jarring jumps in perspective and FoV adjustment.

Really uncomfortable, but they don't care -- they like watching your camera jump from 1st person to third person a hundred times a minute, and I can't really understand how anyone could enjoy this.

In 7 minutes of gameplay for Mankind Divided, there was over 40 camera perspective shifts and they were purposefully playing slow, and the worst part, was 1st person, take cover to 3rd person, while in cover, change ammo type back to first person back to third person, shoot camera, back to first person. So the camera changed perspective 4 times in less than 5 seconds.

Like, come on! This doesn't feel natural, it's more jarring than before, the awkward pause as the camera pulls out, the sudden snap back to first person to change ammo type which jumps right back into 3rd person since we're still in cover, It's so much worse than HR.

I have NO IDEA what they are thinking, but this is going to yet again, for the third time be panned by critics and fans as an awful system.

It was panned in DX:HR, it was panned in DX: The Fall and it's now WORSE than both of those previous titles.

Will DX:MD get good reviews, I'm betting it'll get decent ones, but it'll score worse than HR and again, one of the biggest negative points in the reviews WILL BE THE HYBRID CAMERA SYSTEM.

I expect reviewers to be more harsh this time around, since this will be the third time they had to say "This system sucks."

I mean really, 40 times in about 4 minutes of gameplay, that's like 10 times a minute and they were playing SLOW on purpose. The reality when actually playing will be about twice that amount -- and that's not counting climbing ladders.

I like how the iccarus dash system gives us back super speed and super jump, I like how you can mantle and climb ledges in first person. So if I can iccarus jump to a platform and climb up the ledge in first person, why do I have to climb ladders in third?

Like -- don't they realize that it's WAY MORE ENJOYABLE to just keep it in 1p?

Cyberhuman
4th Sep 2015, 09:15
They can't make games anymore if they don't appeal to the masses.

For example, I don't like consoles. I wish we lived in a world where they designed games with the PC in mind. Sadly we don't live in that world. Console is the priority. However, we wouldn't have all these games if it weren't for the console, since they allow developers to invest in games that wouldn't otherwise exist.

If we want these experinces to exist at all, then we'll have to accept this reality.

Just be happy with what we've got. In the future the only games available will be mobile games. Always online, microtransactions, grindy and repetitive gameplay, non existing story, and so on.

Yeayh :cool:

Itkovian_
8th Sep 2015, 13:40
the worst part, was 1st person, take cover to 3rd person, while in cover, change ammo type back to first person back to third person, shoot camera, back to first person. So the camera changed perspective 4 times in less than 5 seconds.

Actually, it's pretty clear from the video that the switch to change ammo type was a specific action that allows you to view your weapon in order to modify the weapon without having to go to the inventory menu, similar to how it was done in Crysis.

You can clearly see the player change ammo types with a single button press only a few seconds later, and so the shift to view your weapon was purely to demonstrate the new menu/view for customizing weapons. The actual number of necessary perspective shifts was identical to DXHR, and remains unchanged: third person for cover, takedowns, and climbing ladders.


[The perspective shifts] was panned in DX:HR, it was panned in DX: The Fall and it's now WORSE than both of those previous titles.

Was it? I remember people on this board disliking the forced third person, and can certainly understand that point of view... but was it actually panned? I don't recall ever reading a single review that took points for the perspective shifts. At worst, it's an annoyance factor for some players, though I'm confident other players actually like them (I know I do, for it blessed us with the safety dance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y414Q7vVgYU)).

And, again, it's not worse. Unless having to go in the inventory menu to modify a weapon is somehow better than getting to do it in first person.

zwanzig_zwoelf
18th Sep 2015, 00:56
People, I don't understand why you're upset. :)

Lowering the difficulty is only natural, as Adam Jensen is not the wimp from the beginning of Deus Ex: Human Revolution and I don't think it will be fun to suddenly become one again. In fact, I'll take kicking buttix and music wubwubwub anytime instead of sitting in the corner and waiting until enemies forget about shooting and go back to take a leak. :)

My only concern is lack of constant third person view as Deus Ex begs for some Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed style of action instead of boring first person shooting like in Doom or Wolfenstein 3d. Look at Remember Me, they made a better game that way by getting inspiration from Deus Ex and turning it into a better game. :)

Bobsoso
5th Jan 2016, 06:52
I agree with most of your post except when it comes to the energy bar and costs.

I felt I could and did use AUGS MUUUUUUCH more in Deus Ex 1 (which I've played at least 30 times) compared to DX:HR. HR seemed to have them too costly and the battery system too limiting and clunky, to the point were I felt like I was just playing some generic shooter because of limited AUG use (compared to DX1).

But I agree with the rest, just feels dumbed down:
Constant cutscene switching, constant third person switching for no reason as other First Person games do all of that stuff (and more) in first person, no lean system, no skills system, and WORST of all................melee combat turned into dudebro QTEs when countless other AAA first-person games do ACTUAL REAL TIME MELEE COMBAT (seriously why take this out?) spectacularly. Will they turn the gunplay into a QTEs too once people get tired of shooting games?