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View Full Version : Serious Concerns with this new business model



Striike
21st Jun 2015, 13:29
While I can appreciate developers trying new things, I have large concerns about the game being released before it is fully developed. I am speaking, for those that do not know, about the statement that the rest of the levels will be released for free over the course of 2016. While I am sure the the developers of this game has the best intentions, if this game falls flat what will stop the company from simply pulling the plug? Now I get stuck with an unfinished $60 game.
I may be the minority here, and if so, I am out of luck. But I urge everyone to vote with your wallet. If Hitman comes out with 8-10 levels, I will buy your game on launch day. If it comes out with 2 levels, I will buy the game when it has 8-10 levels.

dravenla
21st Jun 2015, 16:22
I agree 100%, im not paying $60 for a couple of levels. Ill just wait for the full game.
This is a joke. They should be releasing a full game of 8-10 levels then give us free levels or have those maps have new hits in different area's over the course of 2016.

alxndrs
22nd Jun 2015, 21:57
Also very unhappy with this decision. It's a shame as the game looks and sounds amazing from what we've seen and heard so far.

Valenka
22nd Jun 2015, 22:33
I think you guys have misinterpreted the announcement. IO Interactive have said that the game will be huge at launch. I think, and I might be wrong, that what they're really doing is releasing the full game (as they have claimed that the game is complete) and are basically adding what amounts to free DLC and after all of it is released, they'll probably slap a "GOTY EDITION" sticker on some box art and ship the game with the DLC on disc.

Striike
22nd Jun 2015, 22:42
I think you guys have misinterpreted the announcement. IO Interactive have said that the game will be huge at launch. I think, and I might be wrong, that what they're really doing is releasing the full game (as they have claimed that the game is complete) and are basically adding what amounts to free DLC and after all of it is released, they'll probably slap a "GOTY EDITION" sticker on some box art and ship the game with the DLC on disc.

@Valenka, I hope you are right. And as I said, I will gladly pay for a modern BM with 8-10 levels.

Valenka
22nd Jun 2015, 23:17
@Valenka, I hope you are right. And as I said, I will gladly pay for a modern BM with 8-10 levels.

Agreed. I mean, that was just my interpretation based on what IO Interactive said. Even if they said nothing, I highly doubt they'd launch the game as a barebones experience and charge $60 for it. Could you imagine the backlash they would get? Like I said, I could be wrong, but I do sincerely hope I'm not.

Here's some links that may (hopefully) alleviate any concerns:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/hitman-s-digital-episodes-will-be-release-on-disc-/1100-6428292/
(even though I don't like the term "episodes" used here, since it makes me think Hitman might be like Life is Strange, The Walking Dead or Tales from the Borderlands)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/06/20/forget-assassin-s-creed-hitman-is-the-real-assassin-of-e3-2015.aspx

MasterTaffer
23rd Jun 2015, 03:46
I'm intrigued. It's certainly an experiment in extending the life of a game past release. Having a Hitman game that just continues past release would be rad, and the fact they're not charging for this content is ambitious.

We'll see how it goes, but it has my attention.

mordrahn
23rd Jun 2015, 11:44
No disk on lauunch day and wait for nearly a year for a disk? Not me. I'll wait until it's on disk and get it in the bargain bin.

Travis_IO
23rd Jun 2015, 14:47
Hopefully I can clarify a few things. There's a lot of details in the 'announcing HITMAN (https://hitman.com/news/announcing-hitman)' blog post. I strongly recommend you read it all if you haven't already. I've taken some key points from it below:

- HITMAN will launch digitally on December 8. (We'll detail exactly what is included on Day 1 closer to the date.)
- We will release new locations, missions and hits over time at regular intervals through 2016.
- Between bigger drops we will be creating one-off live events and live targets to keep you immersed in the experience.
- For $60 you’ll get full access to all of this content – everything we release as part of this story.
- We will develop the game with you, the players, and adjust gameplay and create live content and events based on player activity and feedback - so the game will deepen and evolve as time progresses.
- In 2016, we will release a physical disc version.

MasterTaffer
23rd Jun 2015, 15:15
So it's an ongoing experience that will allow you guys to gauge reactions and react accordingly while keeping us engaged over time.

Thanks for the clarification, Travis.

Rubber_Ducky
23rd Jun 2015, 17:01
I think it's a terrible business model for several different reasons.

Christmas is the time when developers make the most sales. You can't buy a digital copy of a game as a Christmas present. You have to buy something to wrap up and give as a gift. I personally bought 4 copies of Absolution Christmas 2012. 1 for myself and 3 as Christmas gifts. I can't do that with the new Hitman game unless a disc version releases before Christmas. So that's 4 sales lost just from me a lone.

Statistics show that the majority of gamers do NOT download games, not even DLC. Io Interactive and Square Enix moaned that Absolution didn't sell well enough, and that was released disc and digital. Do they seriously think that sales will be good just from downloads? I know they say they will release a disc version in 2016. But buy the time we get our hands on a disc version the entire game, story, content and everything will be leaked and spoilt way before we even get our hands on it. They should release disc and digital on December 8th if they want good sales. By not doing so IO Interactive is alienating most of, if not a large portion of it's fans who will inevitably be waiting on the disc version.

It is all very well and good to say "Well fans will just have to download it then won't they." Most people have data caps on their internet and cannot download games. I myself use mobile broadband and have just 15GB a month usage. Some people have more but still not enough. Then there are many people who simply do not download or purchase things online. I'm a massive fan of Hitman, but i certainly wouldn't download it even if i could.

When you download you inevtiably have to delete it to make way for other stuff. Get a disc copy and you don't have that problem. And you actually have somthing in your hand for your hard earned cash.

They say by releasing new content over 2016 keeps people playing etc. Most fans are still playing Blood Money almost 10 years on. You make a good game with 10, 12 or 15 sandbox levels and that is all you need.

I'd also take what IO Interactive say with a pinch of salt. They were very misleading when launching Hitman Absolution. Terrible game that was.

Striike
23rd Jun 2015, 17:05
Hopefully I can clarify a few things. There's a lot of details in the 'announcing HITMAN (https://hitman.com/news/announcing-hitman)' blog post. I strongly recommend you read it all if you haven't already. I've taken some key points from it below:

- HITMAN will launch digitally on December 8. (We'll detail exactly what is included on Day 1 closer to the date.)
- We will release new locations, missions and hits over time at regular intervals through 2016.
- Between bigger drops we will be creating one-off live events and live targets to keep you immersed in the experience.
- For $60 you’ll get full access to all of this content – everything we release as part of this story.
- We will develop the game with you, the players, and adjust gameplay and create live content and events based on player activity and feedback - so the game will deepen and evolve as time progresses.
- In 2016, we will release a physical disc version.

Travis, thanks for your post, but you did not address my concern. I really do not care what is coming out in 2016, though everything you listed sounds exciting and amazing. What I care about is what will I get on December 8th for $60. You may not have that information yet, which is fine. But I do want IOI to realize I will not purchase a 2 level $60 game, no matter how many future promises and "free updates" are coming.

Quajek
23rd Jun 2015, 18:09
I think it's a terrible business model for several different reasons.

Christmas is the time when developers make the most sales. You can't buy a digital copy of a game as a Christmas present. You have to buy something to wrap up and give as a gift. I personally bought 4 copies of Absolution Christmas 2012. 1 for myself and 3 as Christmas gifts. I can't do that with the new Hitman game unless a disc version releases before Christmas. So that's 4 sales lost just from me a lone.

This may not be what you want to hear, but I know for a fact that retail stores sell "Download cards", which has the game logo on the front and a download code key that you would type in on your machine to authorize the download. You could buy those and throw them into a cigar box or something, so you'd still have a physical object to wrap up and stick under the tree / give to someone for their birthday.

And bonus: You won't have that immediate "I can see the size and shape of the box... it's a video game," insta-recognition surprise-ruiner action.

Rubber_Ducky
24th Jun 2015, 00:42
This may not be what you want to hear, but I know for a fact that retail stores sell "Download cards", which has the game logo on the front and a download code key that you would type in on your machine to authorize the download. You could buy those and throw them into a cigar box or something, so you'd still have a physical object to wrap up and stick under the tree / give to someone for their birthday.

And bonus: You won't have that immediate "I can see the size and shape of the box... it's a video game," insta-recognition surprise-ruiner action.


I didn't know you could buy them. But i wouldn't buy them anyway as i'm an old skool gamer who doesn't download anything, not even dlc. And 95% of my family and friends who game don't download either. Nor do we play games online. Just gimmie a campaign on a disc and that's it i'm happy. =)

I was suprised when they first announced download only. It was like, do IO Interactive not remember why the Xbox One launch was such a massive disaster? It was a disaster because Nazisoft wanted to make the Xbox One always online and digital download games only. Microsoft still haven't recovered from that silly business model 2 years on even after they backtracked. I can't see this business model working out well for Io Interactive. And the reason the PS4 was a sucess was because it was a no nonsense gaming machine with physical disc copies. Horahh! So people obviously want no nonsense and physcial copies.

Next thing they will do is reveal that there is only 2 to 6 levels at launch. That will really cause a stir that one.

And where do i get a cigar box from, let alone 3 or 4 anyway? lol :scratch::rasp:

AIRBORNE6176
24th Jun 2015, 02:41
I need (& want) a complete/full game (NO BETA) on physical disc that does NOT require constant online connectivity or some type of "season pass".

Quajek
24th Jun 2015, 14:32
where do i get a cigar box from, let alone 3 or 4 anyway? lol :scratch::rasp:

Any cigar shop will give them to you.

Mayhzon
30th Jun 2015, 14:54
I think it's a terrible business model for several different reasons.

Christmas is the time when developers make the most sales. You can't buy a digital copy of a game as a Christmas present. You have to buy something to wrap up and give as a gift. I personally bought 4 copies of Absolution Christmas 2012. 1 for myself and 3 as Christmas gifts. I can't do that with the new Hitman game unless a disc version releases before Christmas. So that's 4 sales lost just from me a lone.
Digital gifting is a thing, you know? Maybe not a thing you do, but a thing some people do.



Statistics show that the majority of gamers do NOT download games, not even DLC.
Source? You know you can't just go around talking about "statistics" all day without citing where the statistic is from, when it was made, who made it with what purpose and so on and so force. So please do provide a source. If you don't have one, then be honest that what you write simply is a personal impression of yours rather than a fact.



It is all very well and good to say "Well fans will just have to download it then won't they." Most people have data caps on their internet and cannot download games. I myself use mobile broadband and have just 15GB a month usage. Some people have more but still not enough.
That is actually a good argument. It's true that some gamers are locked out of digital-only content by default thanks to modern ISPs and cable companies often being greedy filth.



Then there are many people who simply do not download or purchase things online. I'm a massive fan of Hitman, but i certainly wouldn't download it even if i could.
Then you clearly are not a "massive fan" (fan coming from FANATIC) of Hitman. You probably don't even mean what you wrote here anyway. The truth is that you simply cannot pay attention to anything digital-only content because you're on a bad connection with atrocious bandwidth. You probably would if you could. I have been there myself. I understand your pain.



When you download you inevtiably have to delete it to make way for other stuff. Get a disc copy and you don't have that problem.
Again, only an issue if you are one of the unlucky people to have no alternative than ISPs and internet with strongly limited bandwidth and speed. I can assure you that downloading 15GB is an absolute non-issue with 5mbps / 10mbps (fibre wire) download speed. Also, you don't have to constantly delete and redownload games or programs if you have an ordinary 1TB HDD (or even more).



I'd also take what IO Interactive say with a pinch of salt. They were very misleading when launching Hitman Absolution. Terrible game that was.
Agreed. It does sound to me like they are sugar-coating a very limited release here. They probably just want to get the game out the door so it releases right when the Hitman movie launches. If the "additional content" takes a long or short time to develope is something we will see. It definitely smells fishy though.

Rubber_Ducky
1st Jul 2015, 15:58
Any cigar shop will give them to you.

I have never seen a cigar shop in my life. And besides, you can't give people a download game in a dirty old cigar box as a Christmas gift. lol Physical discs or not at all. :gamer:

Quajek
1st Jul 2015, 16:21
I have never seen a cigar shop in my life. And besides, you can't give people a download game in a dirty old cigar box as a Christmas gift. lol Physical discs or not at all. :gamer:

What country do you live in?

Rubber_Ducky
1st Jul 2015, 16:36
[QUOTE=Mayhzon;2135143]Digital gifting is a thing, you know? Maybe not a thing you do, but a thing some people do.



Source? You know you can't just go around talking about "statistics" all day without citing where the statistic is from, when it was made, who made it with what purpose and so on and so force. So please do provide a source. If you don't have one, then be honest that what you write simply is a personal impression of yours rather than a fact.



I shouldn't need to really. Look at the Xbox One reveal as proof in itself. They wanted the XO one to de digital downloads and online only. The backlash from around the world was huge. People demanding physcial copies on a mass scale worldwide. Microsoft still haven't recovered from that reveal 2 years on.

You also have the internet at your fingertips to do your own data research. It only takes a second.

I remember reading articles that said 64% of Xbox 360 owners do not download or play games online. There were over 80 million Xbox 360's sold at that time.

Downloadable game sales figures are never that great and further prove that downloadable games don't sell that well.

But on to a quick internet search....

Only 6% of console cosnsumers buy DLC. 15% get cotntent via DLC on PC.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/only-6-of-consumers-buy-console-dlc-npd/1100-6279895/


In the United States 16% has ditched physical media for digital media.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-20-36-percent-of-us-plays-downloaded-games-npd

When you look at "Physical VS Digital games, which do you prefer?" polls. Physcial copies win hands down.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/digital-vs-physical-purchases-31174868/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/xbox-association-1000003/do-you-prefer-disc-or-digital-31684056/

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/playstation-nation-1000002/digital-copy-vs-physical-disc-game-31385784/


Remember, the average age of a gamer is now 35 and gets older each year. Gamers from the 70's, 80's, 90's and early 2000's come from a time where games were campaign only. There was no online gaming like we have had from the mid 2000's onwards. They grew up with, know, love and are used to campaign gaming. This is "one of many reasons" why campaigns still exist in games today. A little data research of my own here. As a 34 yr old gamer myself, i do not and will not download games even if i could. I have played a couple of games online but generally didn't enjoy it for various reasons. (Mainly the dicks on mic, leaving mics on and screaming kids, fighting and trolling). The vast majority of my friends and family feel the same way as me. We love buying a brand new console, getting it home and taking it out the box and firing it up for the first time. And we like to go out and buy physcial copies to have in our hands. You have something to show for your money. Don't have to worry about deleting it to make more room. You can share it with friends and family or trade in and sell it if you wish etc etc etc. Several of my friends who have been gaming since it began and been around for every console war have no idea how to even game online or download believe it or not. And they simply do not want to know. :thumb:

Rubber_Ducky
1st Jul 2015, 16:44
What country do you live in?

I'm in the UK mate. England.

HolographicLotus
4th Jul 2015, 13:47
HITMAN essentially is a beta until the 2016 disc release. In other words this is sort of an early access feature to make the game right according to what the fans want.

ImprovizoR
23rd Jul 2015, 11:25
You know, it used to be very simple. You pay $60 and you get the game. Then you simply play it. Occasionally there's a patch and perhaps a worthy expansion or DLC. But it was all done in a way that made it easy for the consumer to enjoy their purchase. It was a business model that treated customers with respect. Now it's all about milking people to no end so that the publishers can be happy counting their money before they even deliver a satisfying product to their customers. I'm sorry, but that's not how it should work.

Now every purchase is a nightmare. I have to gather intel to know what I'm paying for. A $60 game sold in bits and pieces? Or not. Nobody knows. It doesn't even matter. The fact that I had to come here seeking information about your latest business model is bad enough. I shouldn't have to do this. And I won't. I'm not gonna waste any more of my time pondering the mysteries of the business model behind the latest Hitman game. I don't care. It's not like Hitman is the only game being released this year. Maybe some day when I'm browsing through Steam pages during a sale, if my eye catches a good deal I might get the full product.

Seriously people. In such a competitive market like the gaming industry, the same publisher that wasn't satisfied with Tomb Raider sales has the balls to pull off something like this?

Good luck.

Rubber_Ducky
27th Jul 2015, 15:22
Good article on why the new Hitman is Anti Gamer. http://www.dealspwn.com/hitman-episodic-release-221520