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SilentVirtue
9th Jun 2015, 21:54
Hello,

For those of you that dont know me, I'm a top tier EU player, I;m coming with some concerns about the blood costs for re-charging

I was REALLY looking forward to this patch, and quite honestly, the patch might make competitive play a little worse, please read the entire post before commenting.

So the item forge is in, and it seems like a great idea, the item system is cool and I'm looking forward to having some nice customization, however:

1. You do not get blood for playing scrims/esl (private matches) (we have tested multiple times with 0 drops of any resource)

2. It costs blood to re-charge, While i actually hate the re-charging mechanic as it is, asking for now the most scarce resource for it is going to cause issues.

For these 2 reasons, teams who frequently scrim, will have difficulty keeping up the charge (never mind actually getting the items they want)

So we have 2 options, use less powerful items in public games so that we can save the blood for re-charging items for esl, or not have them when it matters most.

Neither are good options imo, simple ways to fix this is to add drops to private matches (that wont solve esl issues as were forced to cut short .... whole other story and topic for a forum post on esl) or to stop private matches draining the charge of items.

Or just remove the whole re-charge system for blood, and make it just shards, or something else that can be dropped in private matches.

I already know of other teams who have raised this issue and a few players who are tempted to quit this patch because of this, I urge you, psyonix. listen to the competitive community when it comes to this, the cost is too high!

CorDthefat
9th Jun 2015, 22:07
They must increase the drop chance basicly, and really need to give as reward for playing in ESL, and give much more for the first 8 team....Scrim are an other question :P
Kerecsen.

River_
9th Jun 2015, 22:20
Sooo, hyped as everybody I started up the game after the new patch was done, looking forward to check the forge out. After a bit of dismantling, and checking around, it seemed like blood vials were not obtainable through taking apart other items. Fine, I thought, so I went in some games and came to the following conclusion:

Blood vials should either be more common, or they should be bound to a certain achievement.

By this I mean that Blood vials should be obtained after X amount of kills, or X amount of xp gained in a match. For example, 5 kills ensures 1 Blood vial, or get 1,5K exp that game, and earn a vial.

The reason for this is because at the moment I played 10 games, without getting a single vial, and it's just getting plain annoying.

And it would not be such a big problem... if it were not for the fact that every possible action from the forge requires a blood vial....

Anybody in the same situation? And what are your opinions on this?

Slowashell
9th Jun 2015, 22:25
i dont think u need to play esl to figure out that this wont work out :P

SilentVirtue
9th Jun 2015, 22:30
i dont think u need to play esl to figure out that this wont work out :P

my point was the issue is accentuated by the fact private lobbies drain charge.

Slowashell
9th Jun 2015, 22:39
yadda yadda yadda - the problem is even the devs don't play the game :P

NightbladeStalker
9th Jun 2015, 23:09
It drops, and no i didnt get the screen shot. Only 1 dropped. I know who got it but since Name and shame is a rule i cant say his name.... However i will say his ping is 240 -.-

Bazielim
9th Jun 2015, 23:10
yadda yadda yadda - the problem is even the devs don't play the game :P

Well that seems unlikely - can't fix as fast as people would like, maybe - aren't interested in their own game, probably not.

On the subject of blood, I would tend to agree it seems a little too rare.

Vampmaster
9th Jun 2015, 23:50
aren't interested in their own game, probably not.

I can relate to that.

After you've been working on the same project for months/years, the enthusiasm starts to wear off a bit. If you've been asked to work on a specific feature or bug, you skip over any unrelated sections with cheats or just load the level with 1 player and 1 bot that doesn't fight back. There's not always time for a programmer to play through entire level or match, but that's what QA teams are for.

Personally, I only play through full levels/matches if I have nothing else to do, I have been asked to by someone in charge or I have made a massive change that I'm certain will break something.

That's just me though. Psyonix have played against the community lots of times on twitch.

Zurtonn
9th Jun 2015, 23:52
This is **** ridiculous, i don't rlly know what they are thinking. Do they actually have a plan on where taking this game?

Screwby-Dew
10th Jun 2015, 07:52
The reason for this is because at the moment I played 10 games, without getting a single vial, and it's just getting plain annoying.


Same for me.

Can you please entirely remove the "Recharge" system ?
The Forge will be a massive gold sink already because the buffs/debuffs you'll get are randoms (this is gonna take a lot of Blood Vials I'll never have haha), meaning that you'll probably have to enchant an item way more than once to get the buffs/debuffs you want. We don't need to have to spend even more gold and crafting materials to recharge our items right now.

Saikocat
10th Jun 2015, 09:58
Hey everyone!

We're aware this is an issue, I posted in the patch notes thread but I'll quote that post here for you:


So, posting this as a separate post to ensure it's covered off for you guys, but what we're basically seeing here is that due to the huge amount of items and gold longterm players have stockpiled, it's thrown the balance of items off a bit as a result. Normally, you would not be doing this much salvaging compared to how many drops you're receiving, so it's making Blood Vials seem rare as a result.

We're looking at ways to get around that and sort something out for everyone, so stay tuned as we're working that out and we'll post more detail soon.

Once I have some specific news on what we'll be pushing out to counter the balance between materials you have now, I'll share that news in this thread as well. It isn't intended Blood Vials would feel so rare, but a side effect of the stockpile situation we've got on our hands, so we're going to do what we can to mitigate it.


The other issue we're seeing now is that after enchanting a basic item, you would be able to sell it and currently can't buy the base ones from the store, so we'll fix that one! It's likely we'll be adding those base items to the store.

--Ram--
10th Jun 2015, 10:12
Very disappointed in the implementation of the crafting system. If the system is imbalanced when used a lot then balance the system itself, don't block long term players from enjoying a new toy that may even entice some of us back for a couple of days.



I'm a top tier EU player


Always interesting to see how long it takes you to drop this Silent. It's in 80% of your posts we get it now.

SilentVirtue
10th Jun 2015, 12:12
Very disappointed in the implementation of the crafting system. If the system is imbalanced when used a lot then balance the system itself, don't block long term players from enjoying a new toy that may even entice some of us back for a couple of days.



Always interesting to see how long it takes you to drop this Silent. It's in 80% of your posts we get it now.

Its to ward of the typical "get better noob" rubbish that happens, and helps put things into context when dealing with people who DONT know who I am. It also provides some context the the issue being that this will affect ESL (and top tier) players more than those who simply pub.

So when it comes to game balance discussions, or discussions with ESL/Top tier players are involved, I'm going to put the predicator there.

zzott93
10th Jun 2015, 12:56
Hi, I play in a tier 2/one of the top 8 ESL teams in EU called Dead Sun Karolin.

I don't really do pub games, and between university, social life and work the only time I have over to really sit down and play is when I practice with my team or play in ESl. I can't keep up with the blood.

I know you're trying to keep your players in the game, but the gold cost for the weapon reacharges is already plenty enough. The blood is a middle finger to the competitive community as a whole. The competitive community have lives too, and those of us who don't are hardly interested in queueing for manditory random pub games just to keep our loadouts decent.

Ysanoire
10th Jun 2015, 13:33
I agree that it's a problem that private matches don't drop you anything BUT deplete your item charge. That's not fair. One or the other please.

The recharge mechanic is altogether unreasonable. Even when it was just gold, it was impossible to keep up with recharging costs if you used the items 100% of the time.

Now with materials involved it's going to be very annoying, unless the charge is really really long this time and you needn't worry about it for ages after recharging.

Like someone's already said, the forge is already eating enough resources as it is, since to get what you want you will likely have to reroll a stat lots of times, so I don't really see a reason for recharging to cost so much.

Whoopdidoohah
10th Jun 2015, 13:37
That change to the 'recharge' of special items is pissing me off.

Now I have a bajillion of Gold and can't even use it IF I don't have blood vials... WTF.

I played 10-15 games (didn't count) yesterday, and no blood vial drops. How can you keep up recharging your stuff ? ASo as I told a friend, you get special items and now CAN'T EVEN USE THEM. GREAT OVERSIGHT. In fact, it's more profitable (lol) to NOT use them and wait 'till you're competing in some meaningful game because there's no way you can predict that you'll be able to recharge your items in time for that 'important' game.

Otherwise, Forge is a good addition to the game, but please, let us recharge our specials with gold only...

Also, fix your god damned chest drops, 6 chests opened and not even one worthy mysterious item, and 1 useless gold booster (lol this game is trolling me). Now seriously I will stop pouring real money into keys untill some change happens. Geez last chest I opened I've got a blue item with a -5% HP on it, WTF is that. I've basically spent 6k runestones worth of chests / keys and got absolutely nothing. This is getting old, fast.

RainaAudron
10th Jun 2015, 13:48
What? Having gold to recharge abilities is not enough now?! That makes the rare abilities almost unusable unless you are lucky enough to get enough drops... That´s very unreasonable.... :mad2: I am using mostly rare items and this will basically mean Id have to switch to using normal weapons, which renders all others useless. The charge depleted really fast and if that was not changed... Bad system :/

Also, I agree with Silent and others - those players who focus solely on private matches won´t be able to recharge their items at all.. This should be addressed.

Vampmaster
10th Jun 2015, 13:56
TBH, I never saw a reason for gold, XP and drops to be disabled in private matches. If there's a concern that people will "game the system", just give a fixed amount of gold/XP per private match with a bonus for a win, and allow drops as normal.

Saikocat
10th Jun 2015, 15:11
Hey everyone,

Aside from the general Blood Vials amounts/changes we'll be looking at, I just wanted to update this to say we're specifically looking at what to do with Private Matches and will be adjusting this. Bear with us and we'll share specifics as soon as we can, but we definitely hear the feedback!

ApollosBow
10th Jun 2015, 15:20
Didn't realize you pretty much need blood to do anything lol....good patch for fixes and adjustments, but the forge might as well have never been implemented right now :(....hopefully its adjusted to be alot more fair in future.

SilentVirtue
10th Jun 2015, 17:54
I'm already on 50% for some of my weapons after charging them with the few blood i had, and no i have no blood spare, looks like im going to run out before esl, or i have to stop playing.... guess which one is going to happen.

It needs to be sorted TODAY, not at some random indeterminate spot in the future, Cat, thanks very much for the swift (if not a little vague) responses.

But we honestly need something more than the "Bear with us" Give us specifics! whens the next meeting about this? when are we likely to hear something about it? is it gonna get hotfixed? are we going to have to wait 2 weeks for the next patch?

River_
10th Jun 2015, 19:11
I feel like this update (which was so hyped and anticipated), is going to make Nosgoth die faster then Tribes Ascend ;-;

kLauE187
10th Jun 2015, 19:33
- remove blood for recharging, 2k gold is way then enough!
- remove draining of charged items for private games!
- make it possible to buy atleast blood in the shop with runestones AND coins, not like a material-chest with random-stuff inside only for runestones, because i wanna buy what i wish and not what i may could get!
-maybe add a small chance to receive blood from salvaging items to give your long-time player some love back

maybe listen one time to your community please, because crafting itself is a pretty nice feature and i was pretty hyped, but theres no point to even care about it right now. its like trying to play soccer without a ball. blood is like non-existent but required for everything. you should realise that you need atleast 10+ blood vial if not more to get a stat you actually want except you're married with RNG. grinding games just to have fun with crafting shouldnt be a requirement imo.

Saikocat
11th Jun 2015, 13:07
It needs to be sorted TODAY, not at some random indeterminate spot in the future, Cat, thanks very much for the swift (if not a little vague) responses.

But we honestly need something more than the "Bear with us" Give us specifics! whens the next meeting about this? when are we likely to hear something about it? is it gonna get hotfixed? are we going to have to wait 2 weeks for the next patch?

I'm afraid until the specifics are locked down and I can confirm what we're doing, I can't say much more. I appreciate a vague answer isn't ideal, saying we're working on it, but I wanted to ensure you guys knew quickly that we were listening to the feedback, rather than leave you in the dark until we have specifics. Changing something within the game cannot be done instantly though.

As soon as I can update you with specific detail, I will. We should have more info to share on this soon.

In the meantime, there is something I can update regarding Blood Vials in general that'll help temporarily - that'll be in the main announcements area in a few minutes...

PencileyePirate
11th Jun 2015, 13:31
What? Having gold to recharge abilities is not enough now?! That makes the rare abilities almost unusable unless you are lucky enough to get enough drops... That´s very unreasonable.... :mad2: I am using mostly rare items and this will basically mean Id have to switch to using normal weapons, which renders all others useless. The charge depleted really fast and if that was not changed... Bad system :/

100% agreed ... requiring resources that can only be dropped to recharge our items is unreasonable and frustrating. The problem is not that blood "feels rare" because everyone has stockpiled salvageable items. The problem is that blood is required for numerous things and only acquired from daily/match drops.

uNborn-
11th Jun 2015, 20:47
If this game was trying to actually be a competitive game then special items would not be allowed in private servers period.

Saikocat
12th Jun 2015, 10:21
Hey everyone,

So, following all the feedback and my posts in the thread, I'm happy to share some detail now about what we'll be doing.

In the next patch, we'll be adjusting this now so that Private Matches do not use up charge on these items. The items won't be drained, so wouldn't need to be recharged from playing in Private Matches.

This change is going into the next game update, which we're looking to release next week :)

Screwby-Dew
12th Jun 2015, 11:17
If this game was trying to actually be a competitive game then special items would not be allowed in private servers period.

I agree with this statement, it's the only way to be fair.
Even though I like weapons with -5% spread and having more ammos in one clip, I really do believe we shoudln't be able to use them in private matches.