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Equanimityjohn
20th May 2015, 08:01
For something the devs have chosen to pour a lot of money in to it sure feels like they've not been pushing through with making ESL as enjoyable and competitive as possible. If I ask the ESL admins when something for ESL is going to "move forward" they simply reply with "It's being discussed; that's up to Square/Pysonix". Well then, Square/Psyonix, what's taking so long?

There is a poll on the forums which shows overwhelming favor for Double Elimination style brackets, and yet here we are without them. (Discussion is almost five months old)
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/4835/double-elemination-poll#latest

There is a poll which shows overwhelming favor for class limitations of up to 2 of each class, and this has received zero feedback from the admins whatsoever. (About four months old)
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/6056/class-stacking-poll#latest

There is much talk of evening the prize pools between NA and EU because for the past two months now they've both had nearly even numbers of teams. (If you add more prize money to NA even more teams will pop up.) THIS IS NECESSARY.
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/6973/prize-pool#latest
This is something in a sense that was never fixed. The currency exchange rate inherently makes this impossible unless addressed specifically.

The monthly finals give no incentive for lower-skilled teams to compete.
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/6097/na-monthly-final-needs-more-prizes#latest
Still a big problem. Second/third place prize MONEY needs to be greatly improved.

Nearby south/central american players are claiming they cannot compete in the NA cup, even though their pings would be quite acceptable.
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/7070/puerto-rico-players-in-esl-tournaments-nosgoth#latest

I privately discussed with Raziel Warmonic that the seeding system is malfunctioning, as my team clearly was within the top 4 in points (for the month and overall) of the teams who competed in the NA cup last week yet we were seeded 8th, making absolutely no sense. This needs attention as well.
http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/major/beta-cup-series-na/cup-7/rankings/
This is still something myself and others notice. The seeding system at times makes no sense. (8/31/15)
For more current and further detailed discussion about the seeding, refer to this thread:
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=167298 (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=167298)

There is a poll showing that an overwhelming majority of players think that item properties inherently create imbalance in gameplay between otherwise balanced (skill-wise) teams.
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/9737/no-weapon-skill-properties-setting-for-private-match
(A fair point for ranked leagues too).


UPDATE 8/31/15: These are all still very relevant topics which have received almost no attention.


These are all VERY EASY things to remedy. The longer they take to be addressed the less confidence your players will have in you, much the same with bug fixes and the like as well.

Audhumbla
20th May 2015, 20:41
That's a really useful summary, thanks!

I'll bring some of these issues up in our design calls.

Equanimityjohn
6th Sep 2015, 21:55
Anyone know anything I may have missed on this list? Tried to make sure everything was covered that we've all discussed on the ESL forums.

Dope_Boy_Fresh
7th Sep 2015, 15:00
I think you already covered a lot of things, which would improve the Nosgoth Community in general.

The seeding system is tough for newer teams, since they always have their first match against a top-tier team and get rekt everytime. In the European Cups a lot of new teams give up after one match, even after they decided to give the top 16 teams Runestones.

I also believe they should give more money to more teams in the ESL cups/monthly finals instead of ranked leagues. This will attract more players to join the cups and (who knows) maybe the competitive scene in Nosgoth will grow, where we will see live-events and sponsors for top-tier and middle-class teams. It's not that unrealistic, Nosogth, as an asymetric team-based game, has lots of potential.

It's also sad, that they cancelled the Fight Clubs. :/ That would be an additional way for new teams to get some ESL experience against other teams. also with the looser brackets, each Team would play at least 2 games.

And one interesting idea would be if they would create a cup for the best US and EU teams, who would play against each other. :)
That would be very interesting to watch. :P

Equanimityjohn
7th Sep 2015, 18:37
I think you already covered a lot of things, which would improve the Nosgoth Community in general.

The seeding system is tough for newer teams, since they always have their first match against a top-tier team and get rekt everytime. In the European Cups a lot of new teams give up after one match, even after they decided to give the top 16 teams Runestones.

I also believe they should give more money to more teams in the ESL cups/monthly finals instead of ranked leagues. This will attract more players to join the cups and (who knows) maybe the competitive scene in Nosgoth will grow, where we will see live-events and sponsors for top-tier and middle-class teams. It's not that unrealistic, Nosogth, as an asymetric team-based game, has lots of potential.

I completely agree with you! Thanks for your input. ^^

I didn't know they made it so the top 16 started getting runestones now. That's a good move to keep even the lower-tier teams interested.


It's also sad, that they cancelled the Fight Clubs. :/ That would be an additional way for new teams to get some ESL experience against other teams. also with the looser brackets, each Team would play at least 2 games.

And one interesting idea would be if they would create a cup for the best US and EU teams, who would play against each other. :)
That would be very interesting to watch. :P

Yeahhh I don't know why they canceled the fight clubs. It was a good idea, even if it wasn't popular. It's the kind of thing that should just be around. It didn't need any prizes, it was just an excuse to practice which is all some people want/need.

I think the ladders were good ideas too, but nobody really uses those either. If there was an incentive, like monthly the top teams on the ladder get some extra runestones, or cash even, then "scrims" would be far more incentivized.

As for the "cup for the best US and EU" teams, I really think the money that is quite frankly being wasted on the in-game "ranked" would be better spend hosting an annual Nosgoth LAN global finals or something to that effect.

Dope_Boy_Fresh
7th Sep 2015, 21:04
I completely agree with you! Thanks for your input. ^^

I didn't know they made it so the top 16 started getting runestones now. That's a good move to keep even the lower-tier teams interested.


They did in July. :)

http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/news/257907/Looking-back-at-recent-Nosgoth-changes/


As for the "cup for the best US and EU" teams, I really think the money that is quite frankly being wasted on the in-game "ranked" would be better spend hosting an annual Nosgoth LAN global finals or something to that effect.


That would be so amazing and Nosogth, as it is, is unique enough in it's game play, to include it in such torunaments. You need different team strategies, combined with individual skill in order to win. And you already have a (small) competitive community with skilled players and teams. However ofc the player base is still too small for that, however I believe a lot of people simple just dont know about the game yet. There was a huge peak in the player base back in December and I also remember a video of Pewdiepie playing the game on his YouTube channel with almost 3million views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td8eAJ7Wd_U

Hope more players will be able to enjoy this game. :)

Saikocat
8th Sep 2015, 11:20
Hey guys!

I'll check into the specifics on some of these to see what I can find out, but for now:

- Class/ability limiting/item limiting is a big one, and not something I would have an answer for at the moment. I'll raise this here though for further consideration, but it's not a simple request, and something we're digging into further.

- Prize pools overall will be going through changes with our latest announcement (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=166632), so more detail will be shared for that soon. We did add Runestones across the board though to make it more appealing even if you didn't place at the top.
In relation to North American prize pools in the past, ideally we would like parity for prizes between the two regions but as there was less take-up in the US, it wasn't possible right away.

- We're currently looking into and discussing the seeding structure further with the guys, it's on the ESL side but we're aware of the concerns you guys have with them.


Tournaments and LANs are awesome (personally love going to them) and will depend largely on take up and demand. If things go well, we'd really love to see more growth in that area, to be honest. The in-game League prize structure won't be cancelled though, that is going ahead, though as we announced in the linked thread/blog post we're doing more with the ESL tournaments alongside that. The in-game League Solo Series is appealing to players in general, whereas the ESL tournaments are focused on competitive teams.