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View Full Version : Sentinel nerf?



Johnson2044
6th May 2015, 10:05
I've been noticing this issues for a while now and would like to address them/gather some oppinions on them.

It feels like the abduct range has been nerfed severly. In situations i'd normally have grabbed a human and would have taken him away, i now feel like i am just going through people without getting a grip on them. Sometimes i clearly touched the human, we could have made little vampire-human-hybrid-babies during the time i touched him though nothing happens. It feels like i have to touch them with my chest rather than with my arms to actually lift them up. When a human is approximately at my shoulder, i cant grab him so i really have to hit him with the center point of my upper body. Additionally i feel like i cant gain as much speed through pointing my body downwards when abduct is activated and that it can end prematurely when i hit the ground at a certain angle.

Has this been nerfed without putting it into the patchnotes AGAIN??

"Sentinel

Puncture

- Hit detection range reduced slightly"

This is the last notification about sentinel alteration (before sonic shriek update) and was in the leaver penalty/evolved zephonim update. I am not sure if it has been like this before the most recent update was released, but it makes playing sentinel even more unfavourable.

Only other reason causing this might be short connection losses which might also be root of the wall climb bug i encountered recently. I described this one further in the "Technical Support, Bugs & Issues" section.

HoopleDoople
6th May 2015, 13:43
It is certainly possible that Kidnap/Abduct has been changed, intentional or otherwise, but I personally haven't noticed any difference. There are a few times when I was sure I was going to land the grab and didn't, but this has always been the case.

As far as Sentinel being unfavorable to play I believe the Sentinel will be in a great place once the Hunter is brought back in line. Even now if the enemies go heavy on Alchemists and/or Vanguards, the Sentinel is an ideal choice. Even two players on the Human team as these classes is enough that Sentinels can absolutely dominate.

senjuj
6th May 2015, 14:50
Need only nerf of combo abduct/kidnap +puncture/wings flap like tyrant charge+slam/shockwave.

Johnson2044
6th May 2015, 18:23
Sure alchemist and vanguard are exactly those classes sentinel can counter at ease. The other 3 classes instead are all the more powerful against him. Crossfire focus hits none of the vampires as hard as sentinel because he needs to be airborne to use 2 out of 3 abilities (considering abduct/airstike built). I have noticed lots of people complaining about hunter, but i dont think it is the class a nerf should be focusing on primarily. I think the scout is the one who needs a serious nerf because he is RUINING games so badly i even consider quitting due to it.
I haven't played scout too much. Frankly, i just started playing it because i think he is massively OP and my recent experience with him have proven me right so far, but i'd like to discuss this when i have got a decent amount of playtime with him. I'll probably start a thread about this soon.

So back to topic.


Need only nerf of combo abduct/kidnap +puncture/wings flap like tyrant charge+slam/shockwave.

Don't know if you understood the purpose of this thread, but a nerf is the last thing this class could possibly need. It is hard enough to pull of such a combo with it and i think it is just the earned reward for doing well with it. Without any real evasive ability sentinel cant really enter a fight on the ground and for his super opportunistic character that one special occasion he gets to use his abilities on someone he should be dealing tons of damage. This combo seems perfectly fine because puncture has no other effect besides pure damage. No slow, now CC and hitting multiple targets is hard to do. This is basically a charged melee with shorter charge up time and less range.

TL;DR: You have got to know how he handles, but if you do, you should be able to stop/harass him enough when playing as human. As i said, perfectly fine.

HoopleDoople
6th May 2015, 18:50
I'd have to disagree on the Scout being overpowered. To be particularly effective he needs to be landing charged shots, but charging shots makes him vulnerable. The Scout is fairly well countered by the Deceiver and the Summoner is also a tough matchup for him. His abilities are, in my opinion, some of the best balanced ones in Nosgoth. I will concede that the Scout can be too effective when used in some of the best camp locations (e.g. the wall in Valeholm), but I believe this is best solved by reworking maps rather than nerfing the Scout.

I honestly find Hunters to be a tougher fight than Scouts as a Sentinel. If everything goes right for the Scout he's a nightmare, but he has weaknesses that can be exploited. When your team is working together it isn't that difficult to create a distraction for a Sentinel to grab a Scout. Hunters are far more slippery and responsive, and will always pour in damage the moment you reveal yourself unless they are tied up.

A few more minor points:

Prophets aren't bad against Sentinels but they are nowhere near the threat they once were. Their long range accuracy (and therefore DPS) is less than before, and their primary abilities are rather ineffectual against fliers.
As it arcs, Air Strike can be used from cover. This does increase the difficulty and reduce accuracy, however.
Abduct + Puncture is a somewhat abusive combo that probably needs addressed at some point. If you hug the ground after Abducting you'll instantly land the moment you drop your target. You can then instantly launch Puncture, which assuming you don't screw up your aim is guaranteed to hit. I'm not sure that it's fair that simply landing a grab should be able to result in such a large chunk of unavoidable damage. The question is if the amount of skill and teamwork required to pull this off is large enough to allow it, and I'd probably say no.

IKathaarI
6th May 2015, 21:13
Scouts are pretty OP as they're supposed to be deadly at range, but rely on their teammates up close, this isn't the case, the case is they get even DEADLIER at close range.

Johnson2044
6th May 2015, 21:51
His abilities are, in my opinion, some of the best balanced ones in Nosgoth. I will concede that the Scout can be too effective when used in some of the best camp locations (e.g. the wall in Valeholm), but I believe this is best solved by reworking maps rather than nerfing the Scout.

His map control is incredible. That is what makes him so overpowered for me. On Freeport you cant even take a single step without beeing shot instantly, which is the main reason i hate it so utterly. His charged shot deals more damage at once than any other human ability, except for the hunters grenade. Unlike his charged shots, all other abilities have a limited range and are probably pretty unaccurate due to their curved trajectory. Additionally he still got 2 abilities though his primary weapon could be counted as one already. Arrow volley is probably the most powerful area denial. The only thing that really fits the scout is his knive throwing ability. It lets a vampire stumble so the teams focus fire can be concentrated on the shortly disabled vampire. THIS fits his role as someone who has to rely majorly on his team to cover him perfectly. But weapon plus secondary abilities are just too powerful in combination with maps that offer no cover for vampires at all.



Abduct + Puncture is a somewhat abusive combo that probably needs addressed at some point. If you hug the ground after Abducting you'll instantly land the moment you drop your target. You can then instantly launch Puncture, which assuming you don't screw up your aim is guaranteed to hit. I'm not sure that it's fair that simply landing a grab should be able to result in such a large chunk of unavoidable damage. The question is if the amount of skill and teamwork required to pull this off is large enough to allow it, and I'd probably say no.


I am personally using the long abduct thingy so i'd normally drop people from a decent height. If i'd stop to fly my momentum would carry me forward so the dropped person would already be able to gain some distance. Instead, i try to leave flight mode, turn while falling and enter flight mode again after that. To land puncture safetly then, i need to nearly drop directly into my victim. If someone is experienced he can use this to roll away. Puncture is pretty hard to re-aim after activation and the probability of landing it properly shrinks to a very small percentage. Problem is that most people just run back to their team which is the most freaking obvious thing they could do. If they'd watch closely they could probably try to avoid the damage, but most people seem to just panic and run off in fear.
Also, if your vampire team is not harassing the rest of the humans, latter will either shoot you down before you can use puncture as described above or, as you try to survive, you will dodge and try to hide somewhere so the dropped person is able to flee. I think the possibilities of the sentinel are already limited enough. I mean you are carrying away one of the humans teammates, they literally have a wallhack through this and can use it to their advantage. If people are just not clever enough to use the opportunities given to them, it is their fault.

Furthermore i played sentinel today and i simply cant speed up through going downwards to the former maximum velocity. This destroys the timing i had to figure out over a huge period of time completly. Through the slow i always feel like the ability should have lasted a bit longer and end up hitting the ground plus the insta death which i am guaranteed to die.
I have been trying to work out other techniques but activating abduct from a rooftop simply feels as stupid as my very first tries with the sentinel 90 hours of playtime ago. Though, it still is more effective than sticking with how i did abduct people earlier...