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Psychomorph
8th Apr 2015, 16:34
We need to have a serious talk about it.

Isumbarus
8th Apr 2015, 17:03
Well I am not big fan of TPP takedowns.I would rather go with crowbar or baton.

DaedalusIcarusHelios
8th Apr 2015, 17:14
I'm fine with 3rd person cover - I think it works great for gameplay. The takedowns I like too, but if they could be more interactive or have a chance to not play out perfectly (increase risk that someone might be able to break the move or reverse it), that'd be cool. He's supposed to be able to do bad-ass stuff like the takedowns. I'd be fine if they didn't change, but if they somehow improved it that'd be great.

knox140
8th Apr 2015, 17:30
I don't mind 3rd person cover either. But takedowns need to be 1st person... people didn't like them in HR and they didn't like the arial ones in Thief either, I don't see any reason why they need to be in 3rd.

Limed00d
8th Apr 2015, 18:19
I just hope they'll get rid of the energy bar requirements for non-lethal takedowns, it was a real royal pain in the arse to actually do a complete stealth+pacifist run when ammo often became limited...

Ashpolt
8th Apr 2015, 18:29
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2861/12006787324_3dc616c13c.jpg

Man, I am so glad we're still having the same discussions we were having back in 2008. I know that sounds like sarcasm, but it's not: I'm genuinely glad that people are still saying "these are problems! Come up with a better solution!" rather than letting it die.

This old soldier's fought for too long*, but keep up the fight, friends! I don't think it'll go anywhere, but sometimes, the fight is worth it for its own sake!

*Also he dislikes this forum enough that he can't be bothered to post a million times a day like he used to.

IvanaKC
8th Apr 2015, 18:57
3rd person cover should never ever change. I feel like I know my character better if I get to see him occasionally and the view from the cover is great that way.

However, those takedowns need some more interaction, like mashing the button for example. I'm not a fan of QTE but even that would work better than to just watch everything happen.



https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2861/12006787324_3dc616c13c.jpg

Man, I am so glad we're still having the same discussions we were having back in 2008. I know that sounds like sarcasm, but it's not: I'm genuinely glad that people are still saying "these are problems! Come up with a better solution!" rather than letting it die.


Well, it's time for us new members to discuss it now. I mean, I was there but I wasn't. :p

Agerholm
8th Apr 2015, 19:16
I think the 3rd person cover-view is awesome, and the take-downs in Human Revolution looked great. I would actually prefer to play the whole game in 3rd person, because I think the character looks so DAMN COOL!!!!! Really not a big fan of 1st person games, but I REALLY enjoyed Human Revolution anyway. The 3rd person cover view helped a lot in that regard.

Next gen = Could it be possible to change the view from 1st to 3rd person with the click of a button? That would be amazing - and a way to reach a wider audience.

My first post in any game-forum by the way.... Human Revolution was one of my favorite games of all time. Great work Square Enix. Looking forward to the next chapter. The first trailer looks incredible!!!

IvanaKC
8th Apr 2015, 19:32
I think the 3rd person cover-view is awesome, and the take-downs in Human Revolution looked great. I would actually prefer to play the whole game in 3rd person, because I think the character looks so DAMN COOL!!!!! Really not a big fan of 1st person games, but I REALLY enjoyed Human Revolution anyway. The 3rd person cover view helped a lot in that regard.


I actually play mostly 3rd person games and you are my soulmate at the moment. :D




Next gen = Could it be possible to change the view from 1st to 3rd person with the click of a button? That would be amazing - and a way to reach a wider audience.


Well, if anyone here remembers Iron Storm... :whistle:


1st person - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SerusLwM7Gw
vs.
3rd person - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPlfEsDWNAs

Avenging_Teabag
8th Apr 2015, 19:51
I think the 3rd person takedowns and cover need to go (or at least become optional). That wasn't my stance at the time of Human Revolution, because back them I thought that it was impossible to make 3rd person melee animation that would look and feel visceral and authentic. I changed my mind after playing Far Cry 3&4. Melee animations are fantastic there, and 1st person cover system is simple and elegant. I'd rather EM took a few hints from them and stopped switching from the 1st to the 3rd person view all the time. It is indeed distracting.

3rd person cutscenes could stay. Far be it from me to say no to some Adam ogling every once in a while. ))

Djenkens
8th Apr 2015, 21:14
The third person cover I was fine with. The takedowns, however, were probably my least favorite aspect of Human Revolution's gameplay. It's a video game, you should keep the player engaged and in control as much as possible and the scripted takedown sequences cheapened the experience for me. Just bring back melee weapons like the crowbar, baton and yes The Dragon Tooth or atleast an early prototype of it so it fits within the context of the universe.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Apr 2015, 23:37
We need to have a serious talk about it.

(chuckles) Oh, boy...

I think I'm just going to have to go back to lurking on these boards. I don't have the energy to fight this fight again. It's not as if it did one single bit of good last time.

FrankCSIS
8th Apr 2015, 23:55
Why bother. I'm just going to use the silent run aug, with the invisible cloaking, and blitz my way through the whole levels, taking down enemies from the other side of the wall with my advanced wall-o-vision. They'll never know what hit them!

AdrianShephard
8th Apr 2015, 23:59
As Wildcat said, there is no point for a discussion. It's not like anything suggested here will mean anything to the devs.

reallybigjohnson
9th Apr 2015, 02:31
I disabled the third person cover. Its cheating and cheesing the game there is no way to argue anything other than that. If you want to see around corners then you use the vision mod and use the energy bar up. TPP is something for people to abuse to see around corners and over cover that they normally wouldn't be able to see and that NPCs can't see either. I don't care if its in the game for people who want it but definitely leave in the option to disable it.

Psychomorph
9th Apr 2015, 04:50
I really hope they completely rethink the concept and just stick to 1st person only, with natural stealth perks (leaning, listening to sound) and technical stealth perks (sensory augmentation, camouflage, etc).

If not, than at least a "hard" difficulty option where there is no 3rd person.

Stellazira
9th Apr 2015, 05:00
I liked 3rd-person takedowns because they looked cool and the game takes the controls away from you anyway - why not get a great view of that coat or the augs? Does it feel a bit out-of-place in a mostly first-person game? Yes. Does it make things just different enough to keep things from becoming monotonous? Also yes.

I'm on the fence with this one. I can see the arguments for both.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 05:08
I liked 3rd-person takedowns because they looked cool and the game takes the controls away from you anyway - why not get a great view of that coat or the augs? Does it feel a bit out-of-place in a mostly first-person game? Yes. Does it make things just different enough to keep things from becoming monotonous? Also yes.

I'm on the fence with this one. I can see the arguments for both.

First person takedowns look cool too (see Dishonored).
Also if you need to add something that "doesn't fit" primarily to prevent your game (or action & stealth gameplay if you desire to be specific) from being monotonous, then you're not a very good game designer. Of course, that is probably not EM's perspective, they probably think the diversity is beneficial, but I see it as mixing vodka and milk (first person & third), at least when it comes to gameplay.

Psychomorph
9th Apr 2015, 05:21
I liked 3rd-person takedowns because they looked cool and the game takes the controls away from you anyway - why not get a great view of that coat or the augs? Does it feel a bit out-of-place in a mostly first-person game? Yes. Does it make things just different enough to keep things from becoming monotonous? Also yes.

I'm on the fence with this one. I can see the arguments for both.

Actually, what if there's an option where you can set whether you see the take downs from the 3rd or 1st person. Same animation, just the 1st person has the camera in Adam's head.

Personally I'm not as much opposed to take downs, as they're just a sequence, where the cover system has an impact on gameplay and immersion (for me negatively).

What I find a bit frustrating though is that the take downs have no non-take-down equivalent. If you want to just take out the guard with your arm blades, because you have those, you can't.


In any case:

watch from 0:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7z2yH7Jilbo#t=32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5yqGnnY3eA

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 05:33
What I find a bit frustrating though is that the take downs have no non-take-down equivalent. If you want to just take out the guard with your arm blades, because you have those, you can't.


Yes you can, there's just no logical reason to do so except to see the oh-so "Stylish" animations, or if you take your roleplaying seriously and want a murderous bastard playthrough to be complete. Hold the takedown key down as opposed to pressing it.


"Actually, what if there's an option where you can set whether you see the take downs from the 3rd or 1st person. Same animation, just the 1st person has the camera in Adam's head."

This isn't really ideal from any particular standpoint. Creating unique animations exclusive to both perspectives would be the proper way, if it were going to be done.

besyuziki
9th Apr 2015, 07:07
What's up everybody? It's good to see some familiar names from the Eidos forums.

I think the game needs a separate melee system where we simply push the attack button to swing melee weapons (and/or Adam's fist) in addition to automated takedowns, if auto takedowns are too "cool" to be removed outright.

I understand if some people found the takedowns fun but as the ENTIRE melee combat system, they were vastly inadequate in HR, the takedown animations teleported Adam and his enemies around, and to make things "balanced", more specifically, to prevent chain takedowns, the team had to cripple the entire energy system.

I'm not a big fan of sticky cover either, but I'd be lying if I said I never used it in HR. It was useful at times. I'd love an option to keep it in first person, though.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 07:20
I understand if some people found the takedowns fun but as the ENTIRE melee combat system, they were vastly inadequate in HR, the takedown animations teleported Adam and his enemies around, and to make things "balanced", more specifically, to prevent chain takedowns, the team had to cripple the entire energy system..

Oh sheeet Cap'n, you instilled fear in my mind of chain semi-automated takedowns being a thing in this new Deus Batman Creed Ex, at least the trailer hints at it...but may certainly not be the case, that sequence of ass-kicking could involve actual continuous player skill to pull off. I'm not hopeful though. The awesome button persists.

besyuziki
9th Apr 2015, 07:35
^ We can't kill progress. Button - awesome - button - awesome.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 07:36
Why contain it?

CHERNO-B1LL
9th Apr 2015, 10:10
This is a game about transcending human capability through technology and augmentation. What in the actual f*%k is Adam using to hover three feet behind himself?

If they want a way to give you an advantage behind cover than you should have to get an aug for it, some sort of little drone would be great.

For me it's cheating and it makes it less tense. You can see everything, line up shots, pop up and nail a guy in the dome and be back down in cover. It's a lot more tense when you have to risk being seen by leaning out or peeping over and relying on senses and augs to hear or see where the enemy is. It's a thrill to feel like you are hiding instead of waiting.

For immersion purposes the idea is you are Adam. Not someone playing Adam, everytime the view point shifted and I could see my avatar I remember I'm playing a game. The original had a drone that flew out and spied for you, that and seeing yourself in a mirror or during conversations was the only time I saw myself, but I was seeing me through in world mechanics not gameplay mechanics. I will always think that works better.

Agerholm
9th Apr 2015, 14:59
Mandkind is divided - between 1st or 3rd person gaming. Maybe we are on the brink of war ;-)

I think Square Enix did a good job in Human Revolution trying to offer something to both sides. I hope they hold on to that and make it even better - Or do like they did in Skyrim, where you could choose between 1st and 3rd person with a simple click of a button. That would be awesome.....

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 20:55
Or do like they did in Skyrim, where you could choose between 1st and 3rd person with a simple click of a button. That would be awesome.....

You'd like that awesome button, wouldn't you?

I was going to go on about how third person just has no place in the Looking Glass lineage of Im Sim game design, going off of all their games of this type, but then I remembered Thief: Deadly Shadows exists. I also remembered that EM doesn't give a crap about Looking Glass' legendary style.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
9th Apr 2015, 21:19
Does Looking Glass own the intellectual property? Nope, they don't even exist so why focus on what they did? Is Mario still a 2D side scroller? Get with the program and just accept the fact that the camera perspective has nothing to do with how great or weak a game is unless the camera is broken. First person, third person, it doesn't matter.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 21:32
Does Looking Glass own the intellectual property? Nope, they don't even exist so why focus on what they did?

Because what they did holds great relevance. What they did was went where few developers ever go. They pushed the medium, unlike EM.


First person, third person, it doesn't matter.

Yes it does, but don't worry yourself about it. It is time for me to shut my mouth and move on.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
9th Apr 2015, 21:39
Because what they did holds great relevance. What they did was went where few developers ever go. They pushed the medium, unlike EM.



Yes it does, but don't worry yourself about it. It is time for me to shut my mouth and move on.

What they did is meaningless now. A new company owns the IP, younger people are playing the game, etc. Yes, they pushed the envelope and how far did that get them exactly? Where are they now? Forget about the past, are they relevant today? No, so why stay stuck on the past?

And first person or third person doesn't matter one bit. GTA 5 is proving that again and again.

IvanaKC
9th Apr 2015, 21:44
I think Square Enix did a good job in Human Revolution trying to offer something to both sides. I hope they hold on to that and make it even better.

:thumb:




Or do like they did in Skyrim, where you could choose between 1st and 3rd person with a simple click of a button. That would be awesome.....

Khm, Iron Storm (2002), khm... :whistle:

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 23:14
What they did is meaningless now. A new company owns the IP, younger people are playing the game, etc. Yes, they pushed the envelope and how far did that get them exactly? Where are they now? Forget about the past, are they relevant today? No, so why stay stuck on the past?

Because the past is superior to the present. And yes, younger people do play their games, not that this is relevant at all. Looking Glass are very much still relevant, otherwise DX:HR wouldn't be a thing, nor would those other number of weaksauce titles that I won't bother to name.


And first person or third person doesn't matter one bit. GTA 5 is proving that again and again.

Look harder. Perhaps do some reading up on the perspectives and their impact on gameplay, storytelling, immersion and more.
Also, the only thing GTAV is proving is that Rockstar, like so many, have lost sight of what makes games fun.
Do you like yoga? Do you like Shipping and logistics? Dog walking & Dog mating? Arguments with the wife and frequent visits to the psychologist? A world so impressively large, yet filled with relatively little interactive content? Mindlessly following map markers around? FUN.
Of course maybe those things can be made into fun gameplay events, but certainly not as they were implemented in GTAV.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
9th Apr 2015, 23:55
Because the past is superior to the present. And yes, younger people do play their games, not that this is relevant at all. Looking Glass are very much still relevant, otherwise DX:HR wouldn't be a thing, nor would those other number of weaksauce titles that I won't bother to name.

The past being superior is a matter of opinion. The fact younger people are playing the game is highly relevant. The younger people don't care about some dusty game from 15 years ago from a company that is not relevant. The company hasn't had a title in over a decade. Why? Because they no longer exist. They're no longer relevant just like 38 Games, Data East, Vigil, Silicon Knights or any of the thousands of companies that failed. DX:HR being in existence does not mean Looking Glass is still relevant. What you're implying is no different than dinosaurs being relevant today because crocs exist. Hopefully you can see the absurdity in what you're suggesting. What company is relevant? EM/SE. What game is relevant? DE:MD. But hey, if you think Looking Glass should live on vicariously through someone else's hard work, time and money then have at it.


Look harder. Perhaps do some reading up on the perspectives and their impact on gameplay, storytelling, immersion and more.
Also, the only thing GTAV is proving is that Rockstar, like so many, have lost sight of what makes games fun.
Do you like yoga? Do you like Shipping and logistics? Dog walking & Dog mating? Arguments with the wife and frequent visits to the psychologist? A world so impressively large, yet filled with relatively little interactive content? Mindlessly following map markers around? FUN.
Of course maybe those things can be made into fun gameplay events, but certainly not as they were implemented in GTAV.

No need to look harder as you're going to come with the same tired argument you've always presented to the board for years now. No need for me to waste my time any longer with this. Like I said, GTA 5 proves third and first person can be achieved without being problematic and MSG, the standard of stealth games, proved third person was a viable option for stealth. And even Klei, with MOTN, a 2D game, proved you don't need a first person camera to pull off exciting gameplay, storytelling, immersion, etc.

CyberP
10th Apr 2015, 01:09
Good to have you back, HERESY :wave:


MSG, the standard of stealth games

...Right.


, proved third person was a viable option for stealth

Nobody said it was not viable. I love me some old third person stealth games.

Anyway, this is copy-pasta stuff, pointless cycles of silly arguments.

sirtaff
10th Apr 2015, 09:27
I don't mind 3rd person cover either. But takedowns need to be 1st person... people didn't like them in HR and they didn't like the arial ones in Thief either, I don't see any reason why they need to be in 3rd.

Hey knox, did you get sick of the thief forums yet? I kinda just stopped going there, it's turning into an echo chamber of people who think thief 4 is somehow better than thief 2, i.e. a deluded panopticon overlooked by the further deluded...

I also notice Stephen rwwrwrwrwrwaaaaaaahhhhhh is the executive producer on DE:MD, I was really excited about the new deus ex game until I saw his name in the credits. Very dubious now. I guess the deus ex team seemed to have more coordinated direction last time, so hopefully it won't be the product of a shambolic, ever churning, misguided, misinformed managerial direction... that clearly thief's development had.

68_pie
10th Apr 2015, 14:29
Copy-Pasta ****

http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=154588

Say something new.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
10th Apr 2015, 20:05
Good to have you back, HERESY :wave:

?




...Right.

It is. Critics, devs and the fans, the general consensus is that MGS is the standard for the stealth genre. I mean think about this, Thief gets announced or a new Deus Ex is announced and maybe people are happy for it and it's in the news. A new MGS gets announced and you see possible bundles, custom consoles, millions of posts, etc. Not too many people care if Warren Spector makes a game or if LG comes back from the dead. But Kojima and MG? It's a different story because Kojima and MGS set the bar. I mean just look at the recent revelations about Kojima and Konami, Silent Hills and other things. It's the stealth people gravitate to and it's the company people rally behind.

Irate_Iguana
10th Apr 2015, 20:35
Switching between 1st and 3rd person cover when you stuck to a conveniently placed waist-high wall was annoying. The perspective shift wasn't smooth. A minor complaint, but one worth making. The obvious advantage gained when using this combined with the pretty poor AI routines made the stealth pretty easy. Either bring the camera much closer so you've got a much smaller view of the battlefield or dump 3rd person. Hell, I'd rather see them focus on one perspective and work out a decent game for that rather than continue this weird amalgamation.

The take-downs became repetitive fast. They took you out of the game for a while and forced you to wait an eternity for that damn cell to recharge. Not an enjoyable bit of experience. Amusing the first three times you saw all of them, after that a mere annoyance to deal with. Shorten them considerably and vary them much, much more, or leave them out.




This old soldier's fought for too long*, but keep up the fight, friends! I don't think it'll go anywhere, but sometimes, the fight is worth it for its own sake!

You got weak, old man.



I don't have the energy to fight this fight again. It's not as if it did one single bit of good last time.

That wasn't a reason to give up then and it isn't now.



First person takedowns look cool too (see Dishonored).

Agreed. They worked there and they could work here. The takedowns attached to end-of-level targets were especially nice. Long, but nice.



http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=154588

Say something new.

I loved that thread.

CyberP
10th Apr 2015, 21:14
?





It is. Critics, devs and the fans, the general consensus is that MGS is the standard for the stealth genre. I mean think about this, Thief gets announced or a new Deus Ex is announced and maybe people are happy for it and it's in the news. A new MGS gets announced and you see possible bundles, custom consoles, millions of posts, etc. Not too many people care if Warren Spector makes a game or if LG comes back from the dead. But Kojima and MG? It's a different story because Kojima and MGS set the bar. I mean just look at the recent revelations about Kojima and Konami, Silent Hills and other things. It's the stealth people gravitate to and it's the company people rally behind.

With this mentality minecraft is the standard for all games in general, being one of the highest-selling games of all time.
Definitely the HERESY mentality. Popularity != quality, chump.
I'd say all MGS set the standard for is cinematic storytelling, something that many studios attempt to replicate and fail miserably. I'd rather it not be the standard for stealth games as it consists of 70% story 30% gameplay. Skip all the cutscenes and it is over in four hours. The gameplay itself certainly is pretty good but I don't hold it in the highest regard.

WildcatPhoenix
10th Apr 2015, 21:45
That wasn't a reason to give up then and it isn't now.


We can post on this forum until our eyes bleed and our fingers start to fall off, listing all the reasons why design decisions like contextual third person cover, automatic regenerating health, takedowns, mid-mission cutscenes, etc are contrary to the design philosophies of Deus Ex. We can protest for years to come, and none of it will mean a single thing.

As long as the franchise is in the hands of this studio, and owned by Square Enix, you will continue to see "streamlined," cutscene-driven, poorly-written games like Human Revolution. They have their brand icon now (yay! another Master Chief/Cmdr. Shepard/Marcus Fenix/insert protagonist here _____). They have supporters like Heresy or Lady_of_the_Vine who can get on here and beat the pro-EM drum for hours on end, labeling all of us old-schoolers as curmudgeonly "haters" who just love to complain.

And I'm sorry, I don't have the desire or energy to rehash the same arguments we had for years leading up to DXHR, just to be crushed by watching my favorite franchise sink further and further into mainstream, generic, 8th-grade level "kewl"-ness.

FrankCSIS
11th Apr 2015, 05:55
.

Look who the wind brought back! Always good to see a familiar face.

Dvaythavvar
11th Apr 2015, 06:56
I am not going to be popular here, especially as new face, but I did not even notice the transitions. I even welcomed it to be able to see surroundings and self in same image. Least covering gave me opportunity to see my character and with laser-sights on my weapons or the scopes it was irrelevant as well. But they could always give people option to change it like Bethesda Soft has in their Skyrim, but Skyrim is that one game where either views has fundamental flaws in some point of game. Try shoot something in 3rd person. And there are times, when you cant see anything properly in 1st person. For them the swapping button is essential. In DX3 it wasn't feeling for me as important to swap out other than preference.

dlux99
11th Apr 2015, 07:21
Shouldn't take too long until we also have people demanding first person cutscenes or first person movies. http://i.imgur.com/yXNhL2X.png

Jensen has some pretty awesome takedowns and you wouldn't be able to see **** in 1st person view.

68_pie
11th Apr 2015, 09:32
If we have to have cutscenes then they should be in-engine and in first person.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
12th Apr 2015, 03:52
With this mentality minecraft is the standard for all games in general, being one of the highest-selling games of all time.
Definitely the HERESY mentality. Popularity != quality, chump.

It set a standard, sure. And if we apply the four key components you mentioned in the other thread then, yes, we can definitely say it set a standard.


I'd say all MGS set the standard for is cinematic storytelling, something that many studios attempt to replicate and fail miserably. I'd rather it not be the standard for stealth games as it consists of 70% story 30% gameplay. Skip all the cutscenes and it is over in four hours. The gameplay itself certainly is pretty good but I don't hold it in the highest regard.

Ok, but the general consensus in the gaming community is that MGS, not Thief, not Deus Ex, not Dishonored, not Tenchu, Splinter Cell, not is [I]the standard when it comes to stealth. It's the rubric, it's the "A-Side" and everything else is the B-side.

CyberP
12th Apr 2015, 04:01
it's the "A-Side" and everything else is the B-side.

http://0519f170a2731643c0a9-ec45ee3cb118921cf5758d3a3db775b7.r83.cf1.rackcdn.com/d3499fe4faafa09ab66fada3be17b904506b438d.jpg__846x0_q80.jpg

http://0519f170a2731643c0a9-ec45ee3cb118921cf5758d3a3db775b7.r83.cf1.rackcdn.com/565eefae42843a674abbf44615de7b8017b83cb2.jpg__846x0_q80.jpg


http://t.qkme.me/3t5fgx.jpg

Baby's first game featuring any notable depth.

Fails to see how illogical and inconsistent it can be in both it's gameplay and story.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
12th Apr 2015, 04:22
Konami = Still in existence and profitable.

Kojima = Still making games.

MGS = 30 million across the franchise.

LGS = Out of business.

Spector, Church, etc = Haven't made a decent game in over ten years.

Deus Ex = 5 million across the franchise (with two million coming from HR.)

MGS = The A-SIDE.

CyberP
12th Apr 2015, 04:36
Troll harder, HERESY.

Your God from the nanomachine (Kojima) is to leave: http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/metal_gear_solid_5_the_phantom_pain/news/hideo_kojima_to_leave_konami_after_metal_gear_solid_5_report.html

Your beloved MGS will be milked dry from that point onward, as is the standard. Circumstance dictated the glory lasted this long.
MGS will have it's very own inferior "Universe". I wonder if you'll continue your rhetoric along the lines of "SACRIFICE ALL THE ARTS FOR THE REVENUE!!!111" once the time comes.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
12th Apr 2015, 04:48
Troll harder, HERESY.

?


Your God from the nanomachine (Kojima) is to leave: http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/metal_gear_solid_5_the_phantom_pain/news/hideo_kojima_to_leave_konami_after_metal_gear_solid_5_report.html

And that is proving my point I made earlier. Kojima rumors, speculation, stories, etc means the industry is turned upside down and the spotlight is on him. A new Deus Ex game is announced and it's treated with respect and coverage but not as much.


Your beloved MGS will be milked dry from that point onward, as is the standard. Circumstance dictated the glory lasted this long.
MGS will have it's very own inferior "Universe". I wonder if you'll continue your rhetoric along the lines of "SACRIFICE ALL THE ARTS FOR THE REVENUE!!!111" once the time comes.

But the general consensus in the gaming community is it's the standard.

CyberP
12th Apr 2015, 04:58
The general consensus within ISIS' ranks is heathens such as yourself should die.

The whole world consists of varying degrees of lunacy and cultist behaviour. What else is new?

NUMBER8ISGREAT
12th Apr 2015, 05:02
The general consensus within ISIS' ranks is heathens such as yourself should die.

The whole world consists of varying degrees of lunacy and cultist behaviour. What else is new?

But the general consensus outside of ISIS ranks is that they're lunatics and should die.

And you're right about the world. But still, MGS is the A Side.

BTW, have they hinted at a release date?

CyberP
12th Apr 2015, 05:08
And you're right about the world. But still, MGS is the A Side.

The Immersive Sim is King, non-believer!


BTW, have they hinted at a release date?

Who, Kojima Productions, or the Kojima Productions wannabees (EM)?

I don't know regarding either. The only (principled) video game company I'd religiously follow and "wannabee" are no more.

Specom
12th Apr 2015, 07:19
You do know most people who played only HR don't even know what is an 'immersive sim', let alone know what genre DX is all about.

Dvaythavvar
12th Apr 2015, 07:45
You do know most people who played only HR don't even know what is an 'immersive sim', let alone know what genre DX is all about.

Doesn't HR break some of those rules though ? In this case one cannot blame HR crowd not be quite aware of it.

Specom
12th Apr 2015, 09:55
That's correct.

CyberP
12th Apr 2015, 11:44
You do know most people who played only HR don't even know what is an 'immersive sim', let alone know what genre DX is all about.

Of course, but my old pal HERESY here does know. Or thinks he does rather. He's only played DX1 liberty island, everything else he has played (Dishonored, Bioshock, HR) is negligible.

Edit: @HERESY: apologies for repeatedly calling you out. I never really had a problem with you. Your opinions on the other hand...but that is what drives these places. Just continue to feign ignorance as to who this HERESY fellow is and you'll be safe.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
12th Apr 2015, 23:19
The Immersive Sim is King, non-believer!



Who, Kojima Productions, or the Kojima Productions wannabees (EM)?

I don't know regarding either. The only (principled) video game company I'd religiously follow and "wannabee" are no more.

I wouldn't say that (about the immersive sim.)

I was asking about the release date for this new Deus Ex game.

bluffit
12th Apr 2015, 23:24
I couldn't agree more......it took me out of the game as well.

This is a game about transcending human capability through technology and augmentation. What in the actual f*%k is Adam using to hover three feet behind himself?

If they want a way to give you an advantage behind cover than you should have to get an aug for it, some sort of little drone would be great.

For me it's cheating and it makes it less tense. You can see everything, line up shots, pop up and nail a guy in the dome and be back down in cover. It's a lot more tense when you have to risk being seen by leaning out or peeping over and relying on senses and augs to hear or see where the enemy is. It's a thrill to feel like you are hiding instead of waiting.

For immersion purposes the idea is you are Adam. Not someone playing Adam, everytime the view point shifted and I could see my avatar I remember I'm playing a game. The original had a drone that flew out and spied for you, that and seeing yourself in a mirror or during conversations was the only time I saw myself, but I was seeing me through in world mechanics not gameplay mechanics. I will always think that works better.

bluffit
12th Apr 2015, 23:27
You have a point there my friend. Sadly I agree.
We can post on this forum until our eyes bleed and our fingers start to fall off, listing all the reasons why design decisions like contextual third person cover, automatic regenerating health, takedowns, mid-mission cutscenes, etc are contrary to the design philosophies of Deus Ex. We can protest for years to come, and none of it will mean a single thing.

As long as the franchise is in the hands of this studio, and owned by Square Enix, you will continue to see "streamlined," cutscene-driven, poorly-written games like Human Revolution. They have their brand icon now (yay! another Master Chief/Cmdr. Shepard/Marcus Fenix/insert protagonist here _____). They have supporters like Heresy or Lady_of_the_Vine who can get on here and beat the pro-EM drum for hours on end, labeling all of us old-schoolers as curmudgeonly "haters" who just love to complain.

And I'm sorry, I don't have the desire or energy to rehash the same arguments we had for years leading up to DXHR, just to be crushed by watching my favorite franchise sink further and further into mainstream, generic, 8th-grade level "kewl"-ness.