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xaduha3
7th Apr 2015, 20:55
It happened.

jtyPxjhZ
7th Apr 2015, 20:56
YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHHH

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/15/1428435040-deus-ex-mankind-divided-mock-up.jpg


http://i01.kanobu.net/r/523b440783f81bd541e294ecfb1b52f3/1040x-/u.kanobu.ru/editor/images/66/72d9488e-a461-470e-afb1-09c30fcd4424.jpg

vallux
7th Apr 2015, 20:58
About damn time too. Ah. I just hope we get definitely like a sauce. Maybe some copypasta. Like the good old days, but with better hair.

xaduha3
7th Apr 2015, 21:01
These small gifs of a new trailer... I think I'll dig up CGI trailers from HR.

MasterTaffer
7th Apr 2015, 21:04
It begins.

Isumbarus
7th Apr 2015, 21:06
I hope they will throw gameplay soon .

3rdmillhouse
7th Apr 2015, 21:06
http://i.imgur.com/7drHiqr.gif

Jerion
7th Apr 2015, 21:09
I wonder if Adam will be able to eat healthy foods this time. He just ate protein bars before. Why not a tomato?

Spyhopping
7th Apr 2015, 21:14
Leaves are healthy. He's smoking some nice tobacco leaves in the CGI bits.

ZakKa89
7th Apr 2015, 21:16
oh yeah baby it's happening

MasterTaffer
7th Apr 2015, 21:17
Cereal.........

vallux
7th Apr 2015, 21:19
Ah. I've been waiting for this. I like all of you. Even you pretentious old men playing at running the world. I see good things in the future.

Ashpolt
7th Apr 2015, 21:30
Neogaf thread has a bit more info:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1024951

Be aware though that some of those images are actual screenshots, some seem to be just concept art. A lot of people seem to be thinking they're all screens for some reason. I'm not sure how. "Neon angel" and (what i'm calling) "leaky marketplace" are art. The rest seem to be screens.

Spyhopping
7th Apr 2015, 21:36
Lovely images. I like how slick the weapons look.

That one with Adam's face to the side in cover initially made me think it was retouched around his face. Probably just the art style.

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 21:46
You know what it makes me think? That there will be literally no way to play this game without being forced into third-person.

xaduha3
7th Apr 2015, 21:47
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/04/07/may-cover-revealed-deus-ex-mankind-divided-568435.aspx

But looks like it's down http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://www.gameinformer.com

ZakKa89
7th Apr 2015, 22:10
You know what it makes me think? That there will be literally no way to play this game without being forced into third-person.

bwhaha here we go again. Copypasta time

Did you guys notice the police drone in the Zenith Pistol screenshot? I only noticed it just now... Cool! Very realistic as well

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 22:11
Now that the leak is out, I'm becoming painfully aware of how few people there are who have actually played a Deus Ex game other than Human Revolution.

I am beyond disappointed by this. Unless they literally come out and say that first-person leaning is also in and that the third-person is limted to the cover system, I probably won't even play it. It's not even the same kind of game as the original anymore. It's very obvious that they broke Deus Ex down to a series of checkboxes (I'm sorry, I mean "pillars") in an effort to scientifically adapt what made the game good, but that's just not how it works.

xaduha3
7th Apr 2015, 22:13
Heavy gifs inside:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21787303/images/itxsjs.gif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21787303/images/jens2kbuor.gif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21787303/images/fnyemp.gif
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21787303/images/deu4.gif
Yes, this last one is from HR.

ZakKa89
7th Apr 2015, 22:15
So what happened to Adam's arm? No more blades? What's going on there?

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 22:19
And cutscenes confirmed...

Poticha
7th Apr 2015, 22:23
More to come tomorrow at 09:00 PDT / 12:00 EDT / 17:00 BST / 18:00 CEST. :)

Ashpolt
7th Apr 2015, 22:30
And cutscenes confirmed...

Not necessarily. Could just be for a pre-rendered "proof of concept" / story trailer like DXHR did.

[EDIT]


More to come tomorrow at 09:00 PDT / 12:00 EDT / 17:00 BST / 18:00 CEST. :)

So, err...how's the mood in the Eidos Montreal marketing department now? Are there any windows left unbroken? Any mirrors left unpunched?

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 22:38
From what I can tell, the majority of people paying attention to this only ever played Human Revolution, and they think it's the best game of last generation.

So for them, there's nothing to be upset about. They don't know what the franchise COULD be. After HR, I had hoped that we might be able to get the Deus Ex that fans of the original deserve thanks to the increase in funding, but it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case.

I suppose I am going to have to accept that Deus Ex as a franchise will never again be as great as the original.

MasterTaffer
7th Apr 2015, 22:44
Yes, you said that 27 minutes prior in your previous post. Slow down before you get RSI, Shralla.

Ashpolt
7th Apr 2015, 22:44
From what I can tell, the majority of people paying attention to this only ever played Human Revolution, and they think it's the best game of last generation.

So for them, there's nothing to be upset about. They don't know what the franchise COULD be.

This is, without a doubt, going to be a game aimed at Human Revolution fans far more than old-school Deus Ex fans. I think to expect otherwise would, sadly, be foolish, so seriously: dispossess yourself of any notion to the contrary. Until another team get their hands on the franchise, there's no way we'll see a more faithful sequel to the original game. (And even then we'll have to be really lucky...)

I guess your choices at this point are either accept that, and see if they improve on what they did with DXHR, however marginally...or don't, and don't buy it. I'll be going for the former: DXHR wasn't perfect, and it doesn't seem like they're addressing my main concerns about the last game with this one....but on the other hand, DXHR was a good game, and I've not seen anything (yet) to suggest this will be anything less than that quality. I'm expecting Human Revolution 2.0, nothing less, and anything better will be a pleasant bonus.

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 22:50
Yes, you said that 27 minutes prior in your previous post. Slow down before you get RSI, Shralla.

I only repeated the first sentence, give me a break.

They could target a game at the HR fans while still changing things about HR and including things from the original. If they're (JDF) going to be so obsessed with the third-person cover, and "optional" perspective switching, they should include first-person leaning as well. I would be willing to bet they won't though, because the whole game will be designed with the idea that you can hide behind a wall and still see the entire room.

Oh, and the rumors say "It focuses on humanity's fear of augmented people after the conclusion of the previous game."

Because why make a new story when you can just make the same story as your last game? The original Deus Ex had so many themes that it touched upon, whereas Human Revolution had one. And now we're going to have another game WITH THE EXACT SAME THEME? It's like they think that augmentations are the center of the entire Deus Ex universe, and that stories can only be told about them.

ZakKa89
7th Apr 2015, 23:08
That's 3 times now ^ haha

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 23:17
I'm salty as ****. Anybody could have predicted how I would handle this news, given the screenshots and nature of it.

Ashpolt
7th Apr 2015, 23:32
I dunno, I feel pretty much the same about DXHR's failings as you do and this is bang on what I expected really. I thought the past 3 1/2 years or so might've mellowed your rage to dull resignation or at least tempered your expectations somewhat, but apparently not.

Bonus points for using the word "salty" though. That seems to have seen an upsurge in use recently, and I have no idea why, but I approve.

Shralla
7th Apr 2015, 23:43
The problem is that it's a new game, so it brings new rage. I had resigned myself to accepting HR for what it was, but I was hoping for the next one to be a marked improvement. And it still may be. I want to make it clear that I am going to keep following it and I am optimistic that maybe things like first-person leaning will be included AS WELL. But much like all the bad news at the beginning of HR's development (which never got any better), this immediately sets me on edge.

Barrier_Maiden
8th Apr 2015, 00:05
No Malik. :(

Between that and the awful way the team handled the buggy DXHR Director's Cut I'm just not excited about this.

CyberP
8th Apr 2015, 00:06
I never asked for this. I wanted The Fall pt.2 first, as well as more merchandise to place in my Eidos Montreal shrine. I feel it is missing something. Said shrine is triangular-shaped and the interior lighting casts intense golden shininess down upon it from all angles. Every time I think of Deus Ex I think of triangles, gold and the almighty Square-Enix. So stylish, so allegorical; true art.

THIRD PERSON COVER CONFIRMED! Yes! What about third person ladders? I hope to see it return as it really added a ton to the experience, sooo immersive. Highlighting too.

Crysis-cloned weapon modding system? Good, the animations are so stylish & cinematic and I don't like the game requiring much strategy in how to build my Jensen, much like in HR. Speaking of Jensen: hurrah for his return, now with better hair!

In all seriousness, good luck to Eidos Montreal and the fanbase. I'll have no part in this for fear of losing my sanity entirely.
/First world problems.

Psychomorph
8th Apr 2015, 00:07
I have the feeling that mankind will be divided with this one.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Apr 2015, 00:08
Shralla, you are going to drive yourself mad with this. Ashpolt already hit the nail on the head: this is Square Enix we're talking about here. This is one of the epicenters of mega-corporate, franchise-driven, CGI cutscene-addled game design. There was never even the slightest hope of Mankind Divided (or future Deus Ex titles) being anything other than a rehash of DXHR, with a few new features sprinkled in.

The art style is going to be the same.
The characters are going to be mostly the same.
The storyline/themes (can I even use the plural here?) is going to be the same.
The music is going to be the same.

The only thing driving my interest in this title is a tiny, flickering hope for community mod tools, with which we can build the real modern Deus Ex game of our dreams (and then let the market decide which route was better). But let's get real here- they aren't going to let that happen either.

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 00:17
Ugh. I just realized that having Adam means no female main character either. I was really rooting for a female main character in the next game. But no, they're just going to give us three more games of the same character that nobody liked.

Psychomorph
8th Apr 2015, 00:18
If it goes among the lines of Human Revolution, I'd be okay, but just dare to have the 3rd person cover system...

3rdmillhouse
8th Apr 2015, 01:57
Ugh. I just realized that having Adam means no female main character either. I was really rooting for a female main character in the next game. But no, they're just going to give us three more games of the same character that nobody liked.

http://i.imgur.com/pBbTv8o.jpg

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 02:04
If it goes among the lines of Human Revolution, I'd be okay, but just dare to have the 3rd person cover system...

I can't tell, are you for or against the third-person cover system? If you're against it, I have some bad news for you...



ALSO. One thing nobody's brought up about keeping Adam Jensen: At the end of HR he was basically a walking tank. So what? Is it going to be like Metroid and he trips on a rock at the beginning of the game and loses all of his abilities? That's pretty lame, and I think is an extremely good reason to not have the same main character, especially since they aren't using any of your choices or endings from HR at all!

3rdmillhouse
8th Apr 2015, 02:11
Is it going to be like Metroid and he trips on a rock at the beginning of the game and loses all of his abilities?

He loses his memory after getting high on peyote and has to learn how to use his augments all over again.

FrankCSIS
8th Apr 2015, 02:22
Gameinformer eh? Time to start threatening Reiner for info. And to think Ben Reeves knew about this when we saw him last week.

So I see Adam is back. Uh. Explains the exposé about the hair. Any chance that he dies in the prologue, so we can start with a new character? Plot wise, you know something will happen to reboot his choice of augmentations anyway. Might as well just off him! Just sayin'...

Also, I so knew they were going for Prague. In that old concept art they showed, there was this beggar hunched over in a particular way. You see tons of them on Charles Bridge. I remember saying at the time I bet someone from the team went to Prague and brought this back.

We seem to be going full-on X Men here, with the mutants, I mean, augmented vs norms. Can't wait to see how this civil war ties up to the events of Deus Ex, which never really made an issue out of this. Is Marie still on? You can do it, bring us full circle!

Shrall spilling the salt. Have you been hanging around the Overblood Super Replay group? ;)

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 02:42
Shrall spilling the salt. Have you been hanging around the Overblood Super Replay group? ;)

I have no idea what that is.

FrankCSIS
8th Apr 2015, 03:00
Unofficial GI group. Always talking about being salty. Hadn't heard that phrase in a long time, except in that group, where it constantly comes up!

I've started phase 1 of bugging Andrew Reiner for info. Probably won't crack until phase 6 or so, though :p

Looking at the response so far, you're right on the money Shrall. Barely any players of DX in the crowds I've been reading in the past hours. We're already old men, left behind in this new shiny gold world!

WildcatPhoenix
8th Apr 2015, 03:06
Looking at the response so far, you're right on the money Shrall. Barely any players of DX in the crowds I've been reading in the past hours. We're already old men, left behind in this new shiny gold world!

I've actually been somewhat shocked by the opposite impression. Reading the comments in general public gaming sites like IGN, Gamespot, etc, I saw a much more mixed response to the news. The generic consensus on DXHR appears to be "fun game, ruined by terrible outsourced boss battles" (which is far too simplistic, but at least it's not completely off-base).

But yeah, there really is no need to fight the same fights we fought back when Human Revolution was in development. They (the developers) are most certainly not listening to the original DX1 crowd, no matter what PR-friendly B.S. they shill out in videos or public statements.

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 03:13
Looking at the response so far, you're right on the money Shrall. Barely any players of DX in the crowds I've been reading in the past hours. We're already old men, left behind in this new shiny gold world!

It's kind of enlightening in a way. I knew a lot of people played HR but I guess I didn't know how many until this announcement, because quite frankly until this announcement, not that many people talked about it. Now everybody is acting like it was the best game of last generation. Where were all those people in the years in between? Fair weather fans, who only come out when there's news?

Either way, it is an interesting thing to see the difference in opinion between people who only played HR and those who played the previous games. Half the new crowd is asking for it to be third-person only which immediately puts me into a state of overreaction. Especially infuriating is the people who say that third-person is more immersive than first-person. I'm convinced they don't actually understand the concept. The HR fans think HR is just the hottest thing ever, and upon any suggestion of changes to it (even ones that would add things from the original that HR left out), they lose their minds just as much as we do about third-person and things like that.

I wish I didn't like Deus Ex so much. It would make this much easier to accept.

Tyrant_0
8th Apr 2015, 03:18
I am disappointed... and the game hasn't even been officially announced yet.

Jensen was pretty dull... not very likable, and his story felt very flat and one-dimensional by the end (we predicted Megan wasn't actually dead before the game even released). His motivations felt arbitrary at best. I liked DXHR. I just didn't like it as much as DX1 (and I'm not entirely convinced there is such a thing as DX2). Every DX title has used a different protagonist, and for very good reasons. By the end of each character's journey, they blur the line between biology and technology, are demi-gods that have saved/ condemned the world and seen and learned more than any one person ever has. There is no good place for a character's story to go from there.

So after all the stuff Jensen saw/ survived in DXHR, you mean to tell me he just joined some Interpol task force and went back to hunting terrorists? He's quite possibly the most powerful human in all of existence, but there are still challenges for him to face?

It feels lazy and forced. They will have to pull some serious voodoo to make Jensen's inclusion make any rational sense - to say nothing of things like third person cover (useless unless it serves some aesthetic purpose - like seeing Jensen losing his humanity with different augments). So far the only thing I feel remotely excited about is (what appears to be) a more robust weapon upgrade system. But as far as I'm concerned, Adam Jensen died on the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, and the truth of his contributions to humanity died with him.

FrankCSIS
8th Apr 2015, 03:32
You do not want me started on immersion again! Immersive plants, said the guys from Ubisoft. I'm not wasting spit on this!


Either way, it is an interesting thing to see the difference in opinion between people who only played HR and those who played the previous games.

In a way, it's a great compliment to the not-so-new team. It didn't turn out to be what we hoped, but it certainly worked out better than they had hoped.

We'll see what else comes up, but I really hope it turns out to be more than an empty shell. I heard the word apartheid in the GI trailer. I'm genuinely worried about the plot.


But as far as I'm concerned, Adam Jensen died on the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, and the truth of his contributions to humanity died with him.

As far as continuity and world events are concerned, it was the only option which made sense. I'd honestly like to know why they opted for Adam again, besides the obvious branding supposition.

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 03:59
Adam Jensen died on the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, and the truth of his contributions to humanity died with him.

Absolutely. That was far and away the best ending, and was definitely the one with the most sequel potential.


I'd honestly like to know why they opted for Adam again, besides the obvious branding supposition.

Quite frankly, I doubt there was much reasoning beyond that. They saw how successful Mass Effect was and wanted their own "Shepherd" for their game, a recognizable character to stick on all the advertisements.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Apr 2015, 04:34
Quite frankly, I doubt there was much reasoning beyond that. They saw how successful Mass Effect was and wanted their own "Shepherd" for their game, a recognizable character to stick on all the advertisements.

Again.

Square. Enix.

Look for no more complicated answer than that.

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 05:54
I'm not totally prepared to just blame Square Enix for all of it. The developers seem like they've had a fair amount of flexibility and freedom from the beginning of development on HR, and they've chosen to streamline and maximize their profits as opposed to making a game as much like Deus Ex as they could. I know they put in a lot of work and probably believe in their product, but in coming to HR from Deus Ex, it just doesn't show.

Avenging_Teabag
8th Apr 2015, 07:48
Ugh. I just realized that having Adam means no female main character either. I was really rooting for a female main character in the next game. But no, they're just going to give us three more games of the same character that nobody liked.
Please, speak for yourself, okay? There are lots of people who liked Jensen plenty, me included, and I'm happy they're keeping him. Not that I've had much doubt they would, since they clearly spent a lot of effort on his design and ditching him after one game would mean that Square enix lost their collective marbles. Still, it's nice to have a confirmation - i have, indeed, asked for this. Repeatedly.


But as far as I'm concerned, Adam Jensen died on the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, and the truth of his contributions to humanity died with him.I have a solution to that problem: people with the "suicide" final save don't get to play the new game. Because really, this side of Mass Effect 3 ending, that ending was some of the most wtf crap ever devised. Shame on you DeMarle.

I've been posting around these parts when DE:HR was in development, and after it realesed, but unfortunately lost my old account. I see this place is as cheerful and positive as ever. Hi guys :D:D:whistle:

Avenging_Teabag
8th Apr 2015, 08:16
bro jensen was awesome his hidden love triangle with david and maggie sarif was cool and if ben saxon joins them ill love this game pity that deus ex has no romances because i shot malik helicopter to never make sarif jealous again u know i also enjoyed mass effect 3 and especially cortez scene so i dunno why u dont like the ending bro how do you see a romance between jensen and saxon would it be a disappointment like garrett and bosso or itll be nice with detailed scenes and small details like pink bullets for my honey jensen every day

Don't cut yourself on dat edge bro.

vallux
8th Apr 2015, 11:12
I don't even.

RobotWantsKitty
8th Apr 2015, 11:47
I am very happy to see new Deus Ex. Even though I am a bit disappointed to see Jensen again (despite liking him a lot in HR), I wanted to see a new protagonist.
The biggest question is, are people that worked on HR working on MD as well? If you listened to dev commentary from director's cut, you will understand, that guys were very passionate and even with budget restrictions and technical issues, they managed to create one of the best games of the decade. If that's the case, I am confident the game will be just brilliant, since SE looks more invested in this one.
Does anyone know? I assume it's the same guys, the other team in Montreal worked on Thief. But they might have more than two major teams.

Isumbarus
8th Apr 2015, 11:53
Yea I thought there will be new female character .There were some rumors but it looks like they will just continue.

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 12:06
bro id like to also see a female character because it opens new ways for gameplay and women by nature are more badass than men

Johnny_Thunder
8th Apr 2015, 12:12
Hello everyone it's me Dead-Eye from back in the day.


I feel like DX;HR did listen to me on a few points when I showed up the first time they announced DX3, so I figure I will give it another shot.

1.) First thing first, Developers please build the ending of your game first. You can always go back and revise the ending if you make changes, but the most disappointing aspect of DX:HR for me was the ending. If you build the ending first you will not need to worry about it being as terrible.


2.) No fans from the original like the cover system, but I'm willing to let it slide as long as the game acts as if it is an augmentation, rather then some invisible game mechanic from the developer gods. Deus Ex always tried to explain why JC Denton could do something, Jensen just has 3rd person camera with no explanation as to why he has it. It's very immersion breaking.


3.) I would also like to see more secret laboratories in DX: MD. The original had secret labs like D&D has dungeons. DX:HR had a good one with the FEMA camp but after that it was rather dry.


4.) I would like the takedown system to be revised, instead of using energy to do takedowns, just allow the player to be attacked by other enemies when they do the takedown but let it costs no energy. The takedown system from DX:HR was too immersion breaking and didn't promote the player to think strategically, tweaking it slightly can change that.


5.) It would be nice if the game had a more prominent focus on Illuminati lore. Exploring the ideas of occultism, lucifariansim, paganism, satanism, etc. The real Illuminati uses occult magic with stage parlor tricks to manipulate people, these ideas have a lot of depth to them and DX:HR failed to explored these ideas virtually at all. It's a sad state of affairs when Bioshock Infinite dose a better job of exploring Illuminati lore then a Deus Ex game did.


6.) Revise the health system so there are more permanent long term consequences for getting hit. Something like an injury system where injuries need to be healed or a health system more like the original halo, where Jensen has shields but also has a health bar that can only be refilled with consumable health items.


7.) Try to create locations that look closer to reality. DX: HR did a better job then DX: IW but it was still not as good as the original DX. DX made players feel like they were in the streets of NYC, or Area 51, it was one of the things that gave the game it's feeling of realism. HR was a little bit too futuristic with it's Renascence art style as such it was immersion breaking.


I like that they have gotten rid of Jensen's weird resonance trench coat and replaced it with a more realistic trench coat. This gives me a lot of hope. I honestly feel like a DX game can be judged solely on the length and type of Tench Coat the protagonist wears.

RobotWantsKitty
8th Apr 2015, 12:38
women by nature are more badass than men
Citation needed

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 12:38
bro yes let them add magic i want to cast fireballs in my deus ex game just like i did in shadowrun oh bro u r a good guy pls em add some goblins elves and mutated elephants into the game

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 12:39
Citation needed

bro honestly what is more badass a sweaty metal guy killing people around him or a nice tall girl music wubwubwub and she looks so weak but in the end makes any man desperate to run back to their mommies to receive a beating for bad behavior heh heh heh

68_pie
8th Apr 2015, 12:42
Looks like it'll be **** and I'll hate it so what's new?

RobotWantsKitty
8th Apr 2015, 12:48
bro honestly what is more badass a sweaty metal guy killing people around him or a nice tall girl music wubwubwub and she looks so weak but in the end makes any man desperate to run back to their mommies to receive a beating for bad behavior heh heh heh
In deus ex, the lady would be as metal and as sweaty as the dude. And you know, with wrist blades, expert knowledge of weapons and arms strong enough to snap your neck in one fell swoop, she wouldn't look weak.

CHERNO-B1LL
8th Apr 2015, 13:43
Please, speak for yourself, okay? There are lots of people who liked Jensen plenty, me included, and I'm happy they're keeping him. Not that I've had much doubt they would, since they clearly spent a lot of effort on his design and ditching him after one game would mean that Square enix lost their collective marbles. Still, it's nice to have a confirmation - i have, indeed, asked for this. Repeatedly.

I have a solution to that problem: people with the "suicide" final save don't get to play the new game. Because really, this side of Mass Effect 3 ending, that ending was some of the most wtf crap ever devised. Shame on you DeMarle.

I've been posting around these parts when DE:HR was in development, and after it realesed, but unfortunately lost my old account. I see this place is as cheerful and positive as ever. Hi guys :D:D:whistle:

I remember you. I lost my name though. Iron and Copper. This Zwanzig character is the Invisible War of this Deus Ex forum.

Tverdyj
8th Apr 2015, 13:52
Hrm.
Well, they started off showcasing the part of HR I found the least likeable--Adam. There's a reason I left him to die in Panchea, Squeeeenix!!!

I haven't seen much else about it, and I haven't played the Fall yet. The mention of Prague makes me slightly interested, as it's one of the places on the "to visit in real life" list, so it'd certainly be cool to see a cyber-punk version of that. Throw in a Lagos, or a South American hub, and you may sell me for a "just another shooter with sneaky RPG elements".

But for the love of all that's holy, at least leave me the option to crouch behind stuff to sneak instead of using your god-awful 3rd person cover.

I'll probably follow this game's development lazily, but right now it's pretty firmly in the "buy the GotY edition at a Steam sale" category.

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 14:06
In deus ex, the lady would be as metal and as sweaty as the dude. And you know, with wrist blades, expert knowledge of weapons and arms strong enough to snap your neck in one fell swoop, she wouldn't look weak.

bro navarre was the sexiest character i wish there was a navarre mod for deus ex and she looked nice and weak tho

Isumbarus
8th Apr 2015, 14:14
Hey ,and what is going on with this man in the cell?He is still sitting there.

RobotWantsKitty
8th Apr 2015, 14:31
bro navarre was the sexiest character i wish there was a navarre mod for deus ex and she looked nice and weak tho
Totally, those four polygons she had on her model were hot as hell.

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 14:43
Totally, those four polygons she had on her model were hot as hell.

bro graphics were bad in original deus ex but add more polygons and you wont sleep at night without dreaming of her

3rdmillhouse
8th Apr 2015, 14:44
Totally, those four polygons she had on her model were hot as hell.

http://i.imgur.com/Gl4pTmw.png



But for the love of all that's holy, at least leave me the option to crouch behind stuff to sneak instead of using your god-awful 3rd person cover.

This guy played through Human Revolution without realizing you could crouch.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Apr 2015, 15:10
More to come tomorrow at 09:00 PDT / 12:00 EDT / 17:00 BST / 18:00 CEST. :)

Bring it on!!! :cool:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Apr 2015, 15:35
Tea? Thank you, but this is a pastime I like to share exclusively with Pinky Powers. :p
Having said that. I am more of a coffee-lover..... :cool: ... so how are your barista skills? :naughty:

Tverdyj
8th Apr 2015, 15:42
http://i.imgur.com/Gl4pTmw.png



This guy played through Human Revolution without realizing you could crouch.

Which part of my post gave you that impression? I played through HR 2 times on GMDX never using the 3rd person cover, earning the ghost bonus many times, merely by crouching.

I realize English isn't my first language, but last I checked "leave" means "do not remove".

Given the creeping consolification of the franchise, and the "trendiness" of the blasted 3rd person cover, I believe my fear of some Squeeeenixxaccounting suit suggesting EM axe the crouch button and focus on making 3rd person cover "better" with the time and resources it clears up, because "market research shows 3rd person shooters are popular" to not really be all that fat-fetched

So, yes, I am appealing to the dev team not to remove a feature that was already there. Moreover, my request implies an additional appeal of "please keep the same type of level design that makes it possible to play stealthy with just crouch, w/o using the 3rd person cover". Is that not a reasonable request?

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 16:04
bro if u dont like the game dont play it you still have this first deus ex game with hidden romance between jc and paul and bad graphics :)

xaduha3
8th Apr 2015, 16:20
This forums 'Ignore List' is as bad as the old one, argh.

vallux
8th Apr 2015, 16:21
q2kd7F3YFz8

Full announcement trailer. McCann goodness, all 3.28 of it.

Avenging_Teabag
8th Apr 2015, 16:44
I remember you. I lost my name though. Iron and Copper. This Zwanzig character is the Invisible War of this Deus Ex forum.

Iron and Copper rings a bell, yeah. Nice to meet you again. And I already figured that much.

nomotog
8th Apr 2015, 16:44
q2kd7F3YFz8

Full announcement trailer. McCann goodness, all 3.28 of it.

I don't like it... It's so very actiony. It makes me a little worried that combat might be too much of a focused or combat might be focused in the wrong place.. Or maybe I am just being cynical. I hope it's a trailer and not a part of the game.

DaedalusIcarusHelios
8th Apr 2015, 16:45
I loved the original Deus Ex, but I actually like the cover system in Human Revolution. Why? It's fun. The "immersion" card is old and stale. You are playing a game with a keyboard and mouse, looking at a monitor. The only way immersion is "broken" is if this game is made for virtual reality. I'm perfectly fine being immersed into a game and recognizing the detachment, just like watching a movie.

I'm excited for the new game. I bet that they have planned for the vocal minority diehards and will have options, but they know and we know you'll never really be satisfied, so don't expect them to spend a lot of time trying to cater to a lost cause.

xaduha3
8th Apr 2015, 16:55
I don't like it... It's so very actiony.

1080p 60fps(interpolated)... I enjoyed it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Apr 2015, 17:10
This forums 'Ignore List' ...


,,, learn some tact kiddo :)

Keep it friendly, agents.

xaduha3
8th Apr 2015, 17:12
Page - "She's here. I have to cut this short. Keep going through the wreckage. Maybe we'll find something we can use for the Morpheus Initiative.

So, do we have our wreckage yet?

SonicSidewinder
8th Apr 2015, 18:06
lol @ 2:19.

"Achievement Unlocked: Ride the Lightning" - Calling it now.

But yeah, I'll stay optimistic. Maybe I should actually play The Missing Link?

NUMBER8ISGREAT
8th Apr 2015, 18:21
I hope the graphics look like the trailer. That would be something if they pulled off graphics like The Order. I also don't mind the third person view, in fact, I prefer it but if they do things like GTA 5, like being able to switch between the two and have different feels and animations, then it will be really over the top. As for immersion, like DaedalusIcarusHelios said, it's getting stale and old. You aren't that character, you aren't in that world, as soon as your telephone rings, or mouse is unplugged, or power goes out or whatever, and then it's over. So just focus on the new game, make sure you squash all the bugs, don't outsource the work and don't advertise and not deliver like you did with The Director's Cut. You need to be sued for that debacle but that is another topic.

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 18:32
bro what you dont like about directors cut its awesome i played it on my wii u and its really good even better than original in every possible way :)

Shralla
8th Apr 2015, 18:33
since they clearly spent a lot of effort on his design
They didn't spend any more effort on his design than any other company spends on any other character that is only going to get one game.


and ditching him after one game would mean that Square enix lost their collective marbles.
How would it mean that?


Still, it's nice to have a confirmation - i have, indeed, asked for this. Repeatedly.
It's still not true to the Deus Ex franchise. He's only being kept for recognizability, and the fact that there's a meme with his face on it. Not because he was actually a good character. Having different main characters is good for storytelling, as it provides for a variety of perspectives.


Keep it friendly, agents.
Or you could do your job. But nah. There's no "proof" that he's a troll, so you should just let him run wild and **** all over the forums like an untrained dog.


I loved the original Deus Ex, but I actually like the cover system in Human Revolution. Why? It's fun. The "immersion" card is old and stale. You are playing a game with a keyboard and mouse, looking at a monitor. The only way immersion is "broken" is if this game is made for virtual reality.

As for immersion, like DaedalusIcarusHelios said, it's getting stale and old. You aren't that character, you aren't in that world, as soon as your telephone rings, or mouse is unplugged, or power goes out or whatever, and then it's over.

That is seriously the most short-sighted bunch of bull**** copout arguments I've ever read about anything. So because you lack the ability to immerse yourselves in video games, those of us who don't should have to suffer just because you can't tell the difference?

Tverdyj
8th Apr 2015, 18:52
You know, I'm getting the unpleasant feeling that we're going right back to the pre-release of HR discussions here, but anyway, here goes:

It's not just about "immersion". HR and it's offsping have gone way off track from the original im-sim pedigree, and I've made peace with that. Mostly.

Realistically, it's about internal consostency. First-person style to me serves to create illusion of agency. Third-person is used to tell a story--its a character on the screen that's the information is addressed to. In terms of third person combat (especially shooting type), it seems much more of an arcade design. When opposed to first-person, which purposefully limits your field of view, making you consider options deeper. I could never get the same kind of thrill out of a third-person combat that I would out of playing cat and mouse with decently clever AI in say, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Then there's the inevitable question of level design. Look, it's all very nice and good to say "hey, let's be like GTA and offer both", but that's hardly feasible in a game like DX, where stealth is (supposedly) one of the main areas of focus. And designing a game with chest-high wall obstacles is something different from designing the game for first person stealth.

Anyhow, to end on a slightly positive note: I hope we'll get better physics, and that convo battles and hacking make a comeback.

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 18:58
I could never get the same kind of thrill out of a third-person combat that I would out of playing cat and mouse with decently clever AI in say, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
bro stalker ai was awful if you get thrilled from playing bad games you can keep playing it but dont try to plague em since their ideas are superior to ideas of any russian game developer

Tverdyj
8th Apr 2015, 19:22
bro stalker ai was awful if you get thrilled from playing bad games you can keep playing it but dont try to plague em since their ideas are superior to ideas of any russian game developer
Opinions. Other people could have those, too, y'know.

First off, S.T.A.L.K.E.R is a Ukrainian game, :p

Secondly, I played Bioshock and S.T.A.L.K.E.R for the first time basically sumultaneously, years past release. Do not try to tell me that Bioshock was a superior shooter. With a few mods fixing up the glitches, S.T.A.L.K.E.R has great challenging shooting (that sawed-off)...

In any case, I'm not expecting EM to deliver that caliber of shooting. I was simply pointing out why third-person cover-based shooting doesn't work for me.

Not that it really matters, as very few things on this forum ever reach the devs' screens, :)

NUMBER8ISGREAT
8th Apr 2015, 19:25
That is seriously the most short-sighted bunch of bull**** copout arguments I've ever read about anything. So because you lack the ability to immerse yourselves in video games, those of us who don't should have to suffer just because you can't tell the difference?

You're entitled to your opinion but it's actually not our duty to immerse ourselves. You see my friend, that job goes tot he developers but some of us have enough sense to know that "it's just a game" and don't have any emotional connections to the avatar on screen.


You know, I'm getting the unpleasant feeling that we're going right back to the pre-release of HR discussions here, but anyway, here goes:

It's not just about "immersion". HR and it's offsping have gone way off track from the original im-sim pedigree, and I've made peace with that. Mostly.

Realistically, it's about internal consostency. First-person style to me serves to create illusion of agency. Third-person is used to tell a story--its a character on the screen that's the information is addressed to. In terms of third person combat (especially shooting type), it seems much more of an arcade design. When opposed to first-person, which purposefully limits your field of view, making you consider options deeper. I could never get the same kind of thrill out of a third-person combat that I would out of playing cat and mouse with decently clever AI in say, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and how third and first offer different feelings for you. I, on the other hand, believe a compelling story is not derived from the camera but from what is actually written and how it is conveyed. In addition to this, when it comes to gameplay, I wouldn't say that first person limits your field and makes you consider your options deeper. The same gameplay from Halo, COD, or any first person game can be pulled off in third person. What are these options you speak of?


Then there's the inevitable question of level design. Look, it's all very nice and good to say "hey, let's be like GTA and offer both", but that's hardly feasible in a game like DX, where stealth is (supposedly) one of the main areas of focus. And designing a game with chest-high wall obstacles is something different from designing the game for first person stealth.

I'm sorry but the general consensus in the gaming community is that MGS, a third person game, not Thief or the Deus Ex series, is the standard for "stealth" games. So you can't say what is and isn't hardly feasible when you have a game like MGS using 3rd cover, games like Splinter Cell Blacklist using both (for different characters), HR using a third person cover system (optional) and GTA 5 having chest high cover and still being able to pull off the game in first person mode.

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 19:34
Secondly, I played Bioshock and S.T.A.L.K.E.R for the first time basically sumultaneously, years past release. Do not try to tell me that Bioshock was a superior shooter. With a few mods fixing up the glitches, S.T.A.L.K.E.R has great challenging shooting (that sawed-off)...
bro bioshock is a bad shooter go play fear if you want to see an example of good ai before going out there and telling that you know what decent ai means

CyberP
8th Apr 2015, 19:37
Or you could do your job. But nah. There's no "proof" that he's a troll, so you should just let him run wild and **** all over the forums like an untrained dog.

Actually, there is proof. But I'm going to let him run rampant.

vallux
8th Apr 2015, 19:39
This thread is so weird. BTdubs the Mankind Divided forum is up. Here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/forumdisplay.php?f=408), We could go there or stay here, whatevs.

I liked the trailer. Sure it was bombastic and stuff was happening everywhere, but it did confirm McCann, and the CGI was fineeeee. Eh. I loved Deus Ex. I can mention Invisible War. I loved Human Revolution. I'm pretty sure I'll like Mankind Divided too - guess I'm an equal opportunity aug lover.

Oh. And NANOMACHINES SON

zwanzig_zwoelf
8th Apr 2015, 19:40
Actually, there is proof. But I'm going to let him run rampant.

bro cyberp do you know that your mod is awesome we can go out together and see if we can be friends :)

68_pie
8th Apr 2015, 19:44
The same gameplay from Halo, COD, or any first person game can be pulled off in third person.

Wut? Changing perspective fundamentally alters the gameplay.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
8th Apr 2015, 20:02
Wut? Changing perspective fundamentally alters the gameplay.

No it doesn't. At the core you're still shooting at a moving target. You're still trying to avoid being shot. In Halo there is no lean and the same applies to COD. There are third person games where the cover is essentially the same as in those games. You don't stick to anything, you simply pop in and out and pray you don't get hit (which is highly unrealistic and very problematic when you really think about it.) The Transformers Cybertron games come to mind, so yeah, you can pull off any 1st person game in 3rd. If Thief were in third person what would be different? Would you still be able to steal? Pick locks? Hit a guy with an object? Shoot arrows? How come driving games are not fundamentally altered when you switch from third to inside?

Tverdyj
8th Apr 2015, 20:11
You're entitled to your opinion but it's actually not our duty to immerse ourselves. You see my friend, that job goes tot he developers but some of us have enough sense to know that "it's just a game" and don't have any emotional connections to the avatar on screen.



Thanks for sharing your opinion and how third and first offer different feelings for you. I, on the other hand, believe a compelling story is not derived from the camera but from what is actually written and how it is conveyed. In addition to this, when it comes to gameplay, I wouldn't say that first person limits your field and makes you consider your options deeper. The same gameplay from Halo, COD, or any first person game can be pulled off in third person. What are these options you speak of?



I'm sorry but the general consensus in the gaming community is that MGS, a third person game, not Thief or the Deus Ex series, is the standard for "stealth" games. So you can't say what is and isn't hardly feasible when you have a game like MGS using 3rd cover, games like Splinter Cell Blacklist using both (for different characters), HR using a third person cover system (optional) and GTA 5 having chest high cover and still being able to pull off the game in first person mode.
Never owned a console in my life, so can't speak about MGS. As for for options in 1st person: in my experience, w st person design offers more variety and flexibility than 3rd perso shooters designed around the mechanic of gluing your back to the wall in third person. Not being able to see around corners limits the information you have--which makes it much more of a risk to stick yourself out in the open. You don't get that with single-player 3rd person games--in most cases the enemies are just scripted to stick to a particular cover and then dutifully pop up and withi your crosshairs.

As for storytelling, while the content is undoubtedly important. The presentation matters. And in 1st person that presentation is directed at me, while in 3rd person it's directed at my character. It's a subtle difference, but it's important to me

bro bioshock is a bad shooter go play fear if you want to see an example of good ai before going out there and telling that you know what decent ai means

F.E.A.R. Is on my GOG shelf, in a list of games to be played. Eventually.

NUMBER8ISGREAT
8th Apr 2015, 20:56
Never owned a console in my life, so can't speak about MGS.

OK, but the general consensus in the gaming community is that MGS is the standard and that everything else needs to meet this standard or exceed it. So with that being said, why are you saying what is or isn't feasible?


As for for options in 1st person: in my experience, w st person design offers more variety and flexibility than 3rd perso shooters designed around the mechanic of gluing your back to the wall in third person. Not being able to see around corners limits the information you have--which makes it much more of a risk to stick yourself out in the open. You don't get that with single-player 3rd person games--in most cases the enemies are just scripted to stick to a particular cover and then dutifully pop up and withi your crosshairs.

The problem with what you're saying is twofold. 1. Not all third person shooters offer sticky cover. Again, look at the Cybertron games and you'll see it. 2. Not being able to look around corners means what exactly? The same scripted patterns in third person are done in first person as well, so it's simply a matter of memorization and knowing the enemies you're fighting, what they're patterns are, if they reload, etc.

And what are the deeper options you speak of?


As for storytelling, while the content is undoubtedly important. The presentation matters. And in 1st person that presentation is directed at me, while in 3rd person it's directed at my character. It's a subtle difference, but it's important to me

At the end of the day you're moving a controller, a mouse, a keyboard or something in this world to manipulate and control the character on screen. Are you not in the role of Nathan Drake when you are playing Uncharted? Are you not in the role of Adam Jenson when playing HR? You see one, don't really see the other, how does that translate to "immersion" or the story being impacted in a way that contributes or dilutes your gaming experience?

3rdmillhouse
8th Apr 2015, 21:47
http://i.imgur.com/lg6xE3T.gif

NUMBER8ISGREAT
8th Apr 2015, 22:09
LOL@the revealed box cover. How does the cover reflect the idea of mankind being divided?

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2015/04/81kwukdcXBL._SL1500_.jpg

neoWilks
8th Apr 2015, 23:13
ALSO. One thing nobody's brought up about keeping Adam Jensen: At the end of HR he was basically a walking tank. So what? Is it going to be like Metroid and he trips on a rock at the beginning of the game and loses all of his abilities? That's pretty lame, and I think is an extremely good reason to not have the same main character, especially since they aren't using any of your choices or endings from HR at all!
I'm guessing either the canon events at the end of HR left Adam sufficiently damaged that he had to be rebuilt (again) or that his new job required certain concessions for public relations such that his more aggressive features were removed or shut off. **** goes crazy in the sequel and he must re-outfit himself so as to murder dozens of people more effectively.

Absolutely. That was far and away the best ending, and was definitely the one with the most sequel potential.

It was only "best" in the sense that it avoids impacting anything in the world at all. From a character/narrative perspective there is no reason whatsoever for Adam to suddenly decide mass murder-suicide is the smartest choice going forward.

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 00:12
This trailer was a decent first glimpse. A lot going on. Will need to watch many more times. ;)

What this trailer did not do, was give me an idea of what's happening with Adam at this point in his life. Who is he working for, if anyone? Who are his support team? Is Pritchard helping him again?

Where's the conspiracy vibe? Where are the MiB playing poker with drunken Greys? The trailer mentions the shadowy profile people, but they don't come across as relevant. At least not in this trailer.

Still... I like the question posed: Where's Adam's place in this new world? I like that he has to decide that for himself. Not as awesome as the player deciding, but that would require Eidos make three entirely different games, wouldn't it? :)

I HATE the shield aug he uses at the end. Doesn't possess the mechanical qualities required for this point in history. That looks like something I would expect from Star Wars. Not believable in the Deus Ex setting.

FrankCSIS
9th Apr 2015, 00:20
I've said it in the brand new section of the forum inaugurated today, but that trailer is ridiculously violent.

Folks brought me to see Robocop when I was 5. I don't mind excessive violence. But in a film like Robo, it was a double statement, about both the violence in society (including the "civilised" enclaves of big time corporate worlds) as well as exploitation films of the late 70's. This right here, it's fast-paced mayhem for the sake of hype. It's like a transhumanist exploitation film. How the **** did we evolve from the profoundly humanist DX to this?

neoWilks
9th Apr 2015, 00:32
I HATE the shield aug he uses at the end. Doesn't possess the mechanical qualities required for this point in history. That looks like something I would expect from Star Wars. Not believable in the Deus Ex setting.

Very much agree. Sexy mechs were bad enough already. But the fact that the augmentations are so elaborate and advanced makes it even worse. Adam has tech far beyond Gunther and Anna and yet has sacrificed nothing to get there.

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 00:38
I don't mind the nature of the violence. In fact, the only kind of violence I have no patience for is torture porn, like SAW. That said, there was altogether too much action in this trailer. But then, I feel that way about almost every game trailer ever. In Deus Ex its extremely trite. The story/violence ratio in this trailer mocks the principles of the game.

That's trailers for you. :rolleyes:

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 00:47
Very much agree. Sexy mechs were bad enough already. But the fact that the augmentations are so elaborate and advanced makes it even worse. Adam has tech far beyond Gunther and Anna and yet has sacrificed nothing to get there.

That's not my concern at all. Human Revolution made a break from the aesthetics of Deus Ex. I'm fine with that. We live in a time where we know what mechanical augmentations look like, and what they will look like in the near future. It would be more awkward if they kept the tank-look, however much it would make some folk happy. :)

No... my issue lies solely with the realities of the tech. The way that shield-aug was represented, I should say it has no ties to near-future reality.

3rdmillhouse
9th Apr 2015, 00:49
I've said it in the brand new section of the forum inaugurated today, but that trailer is ridiculously violent.

Folks brought me to see Robocop when I was 5. I don't mind excessive violence. But in a film like Robo, it was a double statement, about both the violence in society (including the "civilised" enclaves of big time corporate worlds) as well as exploitation films of the late 70's. This right here, it's fast-paced mayhem for the sake of hype. It's like a transhumanist exploitation film. How the **** did we evolve from the profoundly humanist DX to this?

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Goddomot_260c7e_924819.jpg

AdrianShephard
9th Apr 2015, 00:51
I'm seriously disappointed with this news. Definitely not going to pre-order...I'll pay no more than $20 for another HR.

Dishonored, Bioshock (stretching it) and a few indies are all we have that at least try to stay true to immersive-sims. There's only one way to get the series back on track...it must die and another studio must bring it back. There is no pushing the envelope with this studio, no breaking down the norms that have plagued the FPS genre of late. This would be the moment where I would normally give some suggestions but I see that has no use. I'm disappointed with Human Revolution, I'm disappointed with Thief 4, and unless EM is holding back news on big changes, I will be disappointed with Mankind Divided.

The truth is, I'm not frustrated with the poor narrative and gameplay of the games themselves so much as I am with the tainting of the Deus Ex and Thief series. I'm in college right now, so when DX1 and Thief 2 came out, I wasn't more than 5 years old. I was lucky, I had brothers who introduced me to those games when I was a kid, so I didn't miss out on anything. But now, the 10-18 year old demographic -- the age range where studios are focusing their efforts reeling in customers with CGI and watered down gameplay -- barely knows that better games existed before COD and Mass Effect; before HR and the abomination that was Thief. I'm not advocating for video game education here, but when I read many many comments citing the excellent writing of HR, the awesome gameplay, and the idea of player freedom, a little part of me dies. I'm sad not because someone holds a different opinion from me; I'm sad that EM is leading gamers to believe that freedom is following 1 of 3 obvious paths through an area, that government conspiracies means a few references to FEMA, that a convoluted yet impossibly rudimentary revenge quest plot means great writing, and that player choice means choosing 3 different dialogue options that lead to marginal differences in the game and being rewarded for being stealthy but punished for being violent. There were no mass complaints about these shortcomings, only quibbles here and there on various forums and review articles. EM isn't being forced to correct these issues because from their point of view, the only bad feature are the boss battles. I now cringe at the mention of boss battles in HR not because they have somehow become the only talking point of the negative of HR.

neoWilks
9th Apr 2015, 01:05
That's not my concern at all. Human Revolution made a break from the aesthetics of Deus Ex. I'm fine with that. We live in a time where we know what mechanical augmentations look like, and what they will look like in the near future. It would be more awkward if they kept the tank-look, however much it would make some folk happy. :)

No... my issue lies solely with the realities of the tech. The way that shield-aug was represented, I should say it has no ties to near-future reality.
It's not an aesthetics difference. Or it is, but that's not the problem. The issue is there isn't any consequence for Adam's mechanical augmentations whatsoever. It's why the "I never asked for this," line falls entirely flat. He's objectively better across the board. As they amp up his power level, it simply becomes more apparent how much Adam has gained for so little cost.

It's a matter of themes, not believability.

3rdmillhouse
9th Apr 2015, 01:10
It's not an aesthetics difference. Or it is, but that's not the problem. The issue is there isn't any consequence for Adam's mechanical augmentations whatsoever. It's why the "I never asked for this," line falls entirely flat. He's objectively better across the board. As they amp up his power level, it simply becomes more apparent how much Adam has gained for so little cost.

It's a matter of themes, not believability.

The whole point of his character is that he is the only human capable of absorbing his augmentations neural circuits and masquerading them as parts of his neural system, that's why he's so important to the plot.

FrankCSIS
9th Apr 2015, 01:41
Soooooooooooo. I went ahead and mentioned my concern about the tone of the trailer in a decent Facebook gaming group that's usually pretty reasonable and has good tastes in movies and broad arrays of games. In five minutes I've been called a pretentious *******, and people asking why I care if a game about "robot people with awesome murdering arms" is so violent. Adding to the agony, it was called "mature", with its talks of segregation.

It's officially time for me to retire.

Edit. Quoted for truth and justice. Seems relevant to my newfound state of grumpy electronic old man:


I'm sad that EM is leading gamers to believe that freedom is following 1 of 3 obvious paths through an area, that government conspiracies means a few references to FEMA, that a convoluted yet impossibly rudimentary revenge quest plot means great writing, and that player choice means choosing 3 different dialogue options that lead to marginal differences in the game and being rewarded for being stealthy but punished for being violent.

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 01:54
It's not an aesthetics difference. Or it is, but that's not the problem. The issue is there isn't any consequence for Adam's mechanical augmentations whatsoever. It's why the "I never asked for this," line falls entirely flat. He's objectively better across the board. As they amp up his power level, it simply becomes more apparent how much Adam has gained for so little cost.

It's a matter of themes, not believability.

lol. However unwittingly, you are playing out the themes of Human Revolution quite nicely.

From your "subjective" point of view, Jensen is "better across the board." From mine, losing your flesh to mechanics is not something I would ever do. Jensen didn't get to make a choice; it was done to him.

You think he didn't lose anything. No consequences, no sacrifice. I say he lost a great deal.

In the world of Human Revolution, there is much discrimination against augs and those who provide such procedures. And even more in this new game, if the trailer is any indication. Anna and Gunther would find this world very familiar.

Good for you on taking a stance on the augmentation debate. Just don't forget there is another side to this very real discussion. If there weren't, it wouldn't be a stance, just a default.

FrankCSIS
9th Apr 2015, 02:18
I guess Adam is really that missing link between Mech and Nano, as you'd be hard pressed to differentiate him from Denton if side by side in a social context, providing Jenson is wearing gloves. In comparison, everyone else in that trailer got the short hand of the stick, akin to Gunther and Anna. We still have a timeline issue here, but clearly we're long past this point of no return.

I get what Wilks is saying, though. The story was very personal, because it's the thing to do these days to be taken seriously, but it lacks its impact because of how Adam is, and how his actions and cool features clash with his discourse. You get that same feeling in the new trailer, for different reasons. We get an emo angst vibe, about remorse and redemption for the state of chaos he's created, side by side a murdering rampage that seems to be his consistent answer to everything, despite everything he's actually moping about.

The story would have more impact if it focused on others, instead of Adam. And by others, I don't mean terrorists who feel victimised and turn to a life of chaos. We get enough of that mythos in real life, as if getting shafted by life was an explanation to murdering innocent citizens.

neoWilks
9th Apr 2015, 02:34
lol. However unwittingly, you are playing out the themes of Human Revolution quite nicely.

From your "subjective" point of view, Jensen is "better across the board." From mine, losing your flesh to mechanics is not something I would ever do. Jensen didn't get to make a choice; it was done to him.

You think he didn't lose anything. No consequences, no sacrifice. I say he lost a great deal.

In the world of Human Revolution, there is much discrimination against augs and those who provide such procedures. And even more in this new game, if the trailer is any indication. Anna and Gunther would find this world very familiar.

Good for you on taking a stance on the augmentation debate. Just don't forget there is another side to this very real discussion. If there weren't, it wouldn't be a stance, just a default.
Adam faces zero negative consequences from his unsolicited augmentation. Whether you choose to imagine he feels uncomfortable with the result is up to you, but in the context of the game Adam is objectively better for having been augmented. There isn't a single challenge he faces that isn't markedly easier as a result of his augmentations. Neither does he encounter any meaningful prejudice. A prostitute refuses to service him , a handful of people he knows remark how it's a little weird. That's it. And the game gives you zero incentive to avoid kitting Adam out like the suped up, mechanical god he now is.

That's the difference between Adam and Gunther or Anna. The latter two face real consequences as a result of their augmentations. They are the Frankenstein's Monsters of mechanical augmentations. Adam is the iPod. For all the lipservice the game pays to the augmentation debate it does an incredibly poor job of actually realizing it to any meaningful degree.

kokujinjrocker
9th Apr 2015, 02:41
I never asked for this. I wanted The Fall pt.2 first, as well as more merchandise to place in my Eidos Montreal shrine. I feel it is missing something. Said shrine is triangular-shaped and the interior lighting casts intense golden shininess down upon it from all angles. Every time I think of Deus Ex I think of triangles, gold and the almighty Square-Enix. So stylish, so allegorical; true art.

THIRD PERSON COVER CONFIRMED! Yes! What about third person ladders? I hope to see it return as it really added a ton to the experience, sooo immersive. Highlighting too.

Crysis-cloned weapon modding system? Good, the animations are so stylish & cinematic and I don't like the game requiring much strategy in how to build my Jensen, much like in HR. Speaking of Jensen: hurrah for his return, now with better hair!

In all seriousness, good luck to Eidos Montreal and the fan base. I'll have no part in this for fear of losing my sanity entirely.
/First world problems.

Ah, cyberP still at huh, still stuck on a game that will never return and that wasn't at all the masterpiece you believe it to be. Where's your buddy? The cheerleader who agrees with everything you say and refers people to you as he thinks you're some sort of Deus Messiah.

Anyway, I'm loving it. Don't forget the people who played the original deus for as long as they can stand it and deleted from their hard drive as quickly as possible, then when DEHR came played it 3 times in a row because it was so awesome!!!

Now to go post what original deus ex features I don't want in mankind^^

AdrianShephard
9th Apr 2015, 02:41
That's the difference between Adam and Gunther or Anna. The latter two face real consequences as a result of their augmentations. They are the Frankenstein's Monsters of mechanical augmentations. Adam is the iPod. For all the lipservice the game pays to the augmentation debate it does an incredibly poor job of actually realizing it to any meaningful degree.

I approve this message.

FrankCSIS
9th Apr 2015, 02:44
That problem is in direct correlation with why I brought up the violence issue in the first place. There is a clash between what the narrative says, through Adam, and what the game says.

I take you back to HR's development, if you will. One of the quotes that made us cringe, you will recall, is the reason behind third person was to be able to showcase the cool augs and allow the player to see what he does, and how he uses his newfound powers and toys. Even if you did not follow development, it's something you can feel throughout the game, as a directional and artistic choice. Adam says he doesn't like this, but that's not how it feels in any of the playable portions. It's likely one of the reasons why the story falls so flat.

And so again, we fall into the same traps with this trailer. The narration is in direct contradiction with the visual and general tone of the trailer. It makes no sense.

kokujinjrocker
9th Apr 2015, 02:46
There was never even the slightest hope of Mankind Divided (or future Deus Ex titles) being anything other than a rehash of DXHR, with a few new features sprinkled in.

The art style is going to be the same.
The characters are going to be mostly the same.
The storyline/themes (can I even use the plural here?) is going to be the same.
The music is going to be the same.

.

LOL WOW!

I was hoping it was the same game with new features.

I want the same atmosphere, the same art style.
Another piece of the story surrounding many of the same characters, glad Adams is back.

AND MOST OF ALL, the MUSIC. One of the BEST things about DEHR.

THE MUSIC!!!

LoL I would've been pissed if this weren't so and they went back to the original for features and design, or to make any thing more or so like the original.

AdrianShephard
9th Apr 2015, 02:56
LoL I would've been pissed if this weren't so and they went back to the original for features and design, or to make any thing more or so like the original.

The important question is whether it is a design flaw or a technical limitation.

kokujinjrocker
9th Apr 2015, 03:00
I'm seriously disappointed with this news. Definitely not going to pre-order...I'll pay no more than $20 for another HR.

I'm definitely looking to pre-order, and I'm extremely excited. Doing an LP of DEHR at the moment, my fifth play through.

kokujinjrocker
9th Apr 2015, 03:01
The important question is whether it is a design flaw or a technical limitation.

You must be the cheerleader. How did you know? Am I really the only person excited for this game?

AdrianShephard
9th Apr 2015, 03:09
How did you know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4wH-bU-YVY#t=9s

kokujinjrocker
9th Apr 2015, 03:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4wH-bU-YVY#t=9s

Ugh, look at those technical limitations.

neoWilks
9th Apr 2015, 03:18
That problem is in direct correlation with why I brought up the violence issue in the first place. There is a clash between what the narrative says, through Adam, and what the game says.

I take you back to HR's development, if you will. One of the quotes that made us cringe, you will recall, is the reason behind third person was to be able to showcase the cool augs and allow the player to see what he does, and how he uses his newfound powers and toys. Even if you did not follow development, it's something you can feel throughout the game, as a directional and artistic choice. Adam says he doesn't like this, but that's not how it feels in any of the playable portions. It's likely one of the reasons why the story falls so flat.

And so again, we fall into the same traps with this trailer. The narration is in direct contradiction with the visual and general tone of the trailer. It makes no sense.
It's that ludonarrative dissonance rearing its head once again. Like how even non-lethal takedowns involve a torrent of blows to the body and head, and bone-crunching cracks as Adam twists limbs in directions they weren't meant to go. Isn't this supposed to be the pacifist approach?

---

To expand on the game's treatment of augmentations pros and cons: Pinky cites a visceral, intimate revulsion at the idea of mechanical parts replacing living tissue, muscle, skin. The problem is that this idea is the one this medium is least capable of conveying. You're already controlling the character through a serious of button presses and mouse clicks. You're more divorced from what Adam is "feeling" than he'd be if he were real. You simply can't effectively explore the loss of tactile sensitivity in an avatar you're controlling via puppet strings.

Social cost is an example of what a game could effectively explore. Unfortunately, Human Revelation never delves deeper than the superficial qualities of the augmentation debate. You never feel as though you're an outcast or in danger for having been augmented. In fact, you were in far more danger before you swapped out your old epidermis wrap for a bullet resistant model.

Similarly, the Human Revolution setting had a built in limitation to augmentations that could have been used to stress the difficulties inherent with modification: Neuropozyne. Instead, they went in the complete opposite direction. Adam is special. He suffers none of the ill effects every single other modified person must live with every single day. He doesn't have to ration or worry about how he'll afford his next dose. They build him up and send him out the door. No follow up required.

nomotog
9th Apr 2015, 03:21
Adam faces zero negative consequences from his unsolicited augmentation. Whether you choose to imagine he feels uncomfortable with the result is up to you, but in the context of the game Adam is objectively better for having been augmented. There isn't a single challenge he faces that isn't markedly easier as a result of his augmentations. Neither does he encounter any meaningful prejudice. A prostitute refuses to service him , a handful of people he knows remark how it's a little weird. That's it. And the game gives you zero incentive to avoid kitting Adam out like the suped up, mechanical god he now is.

That's the difference between Adam and Gunther or Anna. The latter two face real consequences as a result of their augmentations. They are the Frankenstein's Monsters of mechanical augmentations. Adam is the iPod. For all the lipservice the game pays to the augmentation debate it does an incredibly poor job of actually realizing it to any meaningful degree.

Ya that is something to note. The game dosen't really hit you in the face with problems made by your augs. It's very much augs are cool. There are down sides that happen to other characters, but adam is basically blessed with super cool powers. I mean you could have run the game in a way where your augments felt more like a curse then a blessing. It was part of my nutty idea for how I would have done mankind divided.

Edit: It's always right after I post that I recall something, but there was one part of HR that did make your augmentations a disadvantage. It's the best part in the game too. The glich. You basically get hacked by an outside force and it turns a boss fight in to a blurry frustrating slog. That was actually part of my idea to kind of play the bulling the dragon trope in a less silly way. Audmented people can be abused because they are at risk to this kind of hacking. I can picture the police having devices to send out a pulse that locks up augs, or business that put up emitters to boradcast white noise to augment who tries to enter. The idea can even work as a gameplay mechanic.

kokujinjrocker
9th Apr 2015, 03:26
LoL, I knew if I came back I would see CyberP and his buddy leading the revolution.

The thing is I dislike games as well, FFXIV is a disgrace to Japan, not even just SE but Japan, YoshiP should never be allowed to even look at another game. I've debated during its beta, and in many other forums on how disappointing that game was to its original fan base(those from FFXI) lol.

It's interesting being on the other side though, sorta makes you feel like you're one of those industry tools that doesn't care about the quality of games being released. It just so happens to be that I really like the new Deus Ex games, even the Fall, very fun game lol.

Well, I'm out again, have fun being disappointed, too bad I can't stay and post long discussions on why this is that, I understand venting in such places helps for some people.

Won't see the "genius" replies until there is more news.

FrankCSIS
9th Apr 2015, 03:34
Social cost is an example of what a game could effectively explore. Unfortunately, Human Revelation never delves deeper than the superficial qualities of the augmentation debate. You never feel as though you're an outcast or in danger for having been augmented. In fact, you were in far more danger before you swapped out your old epidermis wrap for a bullet resistant model.

Similarly, the Human Revolution setting had a built in limitation to augmentations that could have been used to stress the difficulties inherent with modification: Neuropozyne. Instead, they went in the complete opposite direction. Adam is special. He suffers none of the ill effects every single other modified person must live with every single day. He doesn't have to ration or worry about how he'll afford his next dose. They build him up and send him out the door. No follow up required.

I have to get behind this 100%. It's also one of the reasons I was hoping for new characters throughout Deus Ex Universe. It was abundantly clear we cannot be exploring this world through Adam, because Adam is a bit of an alien to whatever it is that is going on. Through other characters, you could feel the weakness, the fear, the limitations, the bigotry, or even experience the other side of the coin, as a non-augmented who deals with this changing world. They've sacrificed all of this, in favor of Adam, who will speak empty words and remain disconnected from the actual world and story the game is trying to tell.

neoWilks
9th Apr 2015, 03:47
Edit: It's always right after I post that I recall something, but there was one part of HR that did make your augmentations a disadvantage. It's the best part in the game too. The glich. You basically get hacked by an outside force and it turns a boss fight in to a blurry frustrating slog. That was actually part of my idea to kind of play the bulling the dragon trope in a less silly way. Audmented people can be abused because they are at risk to this kind of hacking. I can picture the police having devices to send out a pulse that locks up augs, or business that put up emitters to boradcast white noise to augment who tries to enter. The idea can even work as a gameplay mechanic.
This is true, and it was effective at establishing a meaningful limitation, if only for one fight. I don't really see it as a limitation inherent to augmentations, though. It was intentional sabotage. Like if Joe Regular went into the doctor's office and they intentionally infected him with the flu virus without his knowledge. Yes, it might lay Joe out for a week, but it doesn't tell us anything all too meaningful about the medical profession at large. Similarly, the glitch in Human Revolution doesn't really capture the day to day realities of modification because it's such an outlier. And if it happens too frequently, it loses it's impact. One would wonder how augmentations got as far as they did while being so easy to hack.

Auric180
9th Apr 2015, 04:59
When Adam says that old rules don't apply makes me fear there wont be stealth and just all in action like the trailer.

SageSavage
9th Apr 2015, 11:30
When Adam says that old rules don't apply makes me fear there wont be stealth and just all in action like the trailer.

I doubt that they are so stupid to go that route. I can see them go wrong (again) in many ways, especially with SE breathing down their necks but this not one of them.

Personally, I'm pretty much still in "wait and see"-mode. The teaser/trailer was nice to look at (slightly reduced golden brown is nice) but indeed too action-laden for my taste. But I really don't read too much into that at the moment.

68_pie
9th Apr 2015, 12:12
I doubt that they are so stupid to go that route. I can see them go wrong (again) in many ways, especially with SQUEE breathing down their necks but this not one of them.

Personally, I'm pretty much still in "wait and see"-mode. The teaser/trailer was nice to look at (slightly reduced golden brown is nice) but indeed too action-laden for my taste. But I really don't read too much into that at the moment.


GameInformer coverage details thanks to NeoGAF [can't link to because of the swearing in there].
-Eidos noted fans who played stealthily enjoyed the game more so spent several years iterating on gunplay

...

SageSavage
9th Apr 2015, 12:42
Not sure what that sentence is meant to imply. "Eidos noted fans who played stealthily enjoyed the game more so spent several years iterating on gunplay" could mean many things. Ideally, they see stealth as a major 'pillar' of the game and improved some of the gunplay. That load out-screen with gun attachements would certainly be neat. I also always wished for a rifle with switchable single/burst/full auto modes.

Of course it could also mean more emphasis on action and less on stealth but that would be extremely stupid after aknowledging the fact that stealth did great things for DX players.

Wait and see. They don't listen much to us forumites anyway, as we all should know by now.

FrankieSatt
9th Apr 2015, 13:13
Now that the leak is out, I'm becoming painfully aware of how few people there are who have actually played a Deus Ex game other than Human Revolution.

I am beyond disappointed by this. Unless they literally come out and say that first-person leaning is also in and that the third-person is limted to the cover system, I probably won't even play it. It's not even the same kind of game as the original anymore. It's very obvious that they broke Deus Ex down to a series of checkboxes (I'm sorry, I mean "pillars") in an effort to scientifically adapt what made the game good, but that's just not how it works.

I played the original Deus Ex when it came out 15 years ago. I've played that game so many times I could do it in my sleep.

Saying that, I think you are really overreacting with the cover system in Human Revolution a well as some of your other posts about the Story Line. Deus Ex:HR was a VERY GOOD Deus Ex game. It's not an RPG, it never was an RPG. Deus Ex, from the very beginning, was an FPS action game that had RPG Elements in it. Deus EX:HR was the same thing, an FPS action game with RPG Elements that allowed you to customize your character. The story line was a VERY GOOD story line and gave us a beginning of how this series all started. In Deus Ex:MK it will continue that story line, it would seem, and expand on the "War" between humans and augments.

I personally don't see how the cover system being in 3rd person takes away from the game itself. If this were a TRUE First Person RPG that would be different, that is not what this game is.



When Adam says that old rules don't apply makes me fear there wont be stealth and just all in action like the trailer.

Invisibility is part of this game as well, as was seen in the trailer. If there was no stealth than there would be no need for the invisibility. Before jumping to conclusions wait until we know more about the game.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 13:47
I played the original Deus Ex when it came out 15 years ago. I've played that game so many times I could do it in my sleep.

Saying that, I think you are really overreacting with the cover system in Human Revolution a well as some of your other posts about the Story Line. Deus Ex:HR was a VERY GOOD Deus Ex game. It's not an RPG, it never was an RPG. Deus Ex, from the very beginning, was an FPS action game that had RPG Elements in it. Deus EX:HR was the same thing, an FPS action game with RPG Elements that allowed you to customize your character.

So it wasn't a stealth game? :hmm:
And whilst it wasn't an RPG in the strict traditional sense (PnP-ripped systems) it certainly had a ton of role-playing potential, player agency, C&C and customization to it that most definitely do consider it an RPG. Human Revolution though, not quite so much.

Third Person cover is garbage. Pop-in-out pop-a-mole combat gameplay where you line up headshots from within cover, or in stealth it acts as the all-seeing eye of enlightenment (and in combat too for that matter), which is more than overkill in combination with the radar, see through walls aug and other stealth enhancements, let alone regenerating invisibility rendering you invisible to all threats in the game except motion-sensing proximity mines. I could repeat the ridiculousness of it all all day.

I miss when third person stealth and action games didn't revolve around contextual cover systems and conveniently-placed waist-high walls. In HR's credit though, the objects you could take cover against didn't feel Mass Effect or Gears of War levels of designed trash.


Not sure what that sentence is meant to imply. "Eidos noted fans who played stealthily enjoyed the game more so spent several years iterating on gunplay".

The gunplay was far more engaging, even with the health regen and cover system. The stealth was beyond ridiculous. I'll expand upon the above points (and once again let history repeat itself) if it is desired.
Personally if we have to see only one aspect recieve focus, I'd rather see the stealth refined. The gunplay was somewhat reasonable, though improvements will definitely be welcome.

vallux
9th Apr 2015, 14:30
For me Human Revolution was way better in the stealth. Every time things escalated beyond popping headshots from cover it became somewhat less enjoyable. The gunplay felt a little clunky.

SageSavage
9th Apr 2015, 14:31
"Eidos noted fans who played stealthily enjoyed the game more so spent several years iterating on gunplay"
Could also be out of context - we don't know that at the moment. Might have been said about the development of DXHR. The step away from DX1s rpg'ish gunplay to DXHRs player driven one certainly was important for them.

@CyberP: I didn't think of DXHRs stealth as "beyond ridiculous". Far from perfect and I indeed felt that the combat side received a little more attention but stealthing was possible and not too much of a pain in the ass either.

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 14:34
These forums feel like 2009 again. :)

SageSavage
9th Apr 2015, 14:37
The 2009 forum software felt so much better though... Still having lots of issues since the migration.

3rdmillhouse
9th Apr 2015, 14:47
It's amazing those haters are still around here throwing ***** fits over Human Revolution's gameplay in the vain hope that someday the Deus Ex franchise will be as complex in terms of gameplay as it once used to be. It won't. Those days are over, people. Get over it and move on with your lives.


When Adam says that old rules don't apply makes me fear there wont be stealth and just all in action like the trailer.

You cannot possibily be serious.

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 14:47
I like nothing about this new forum. Hate the quick replay. Hate the large Nosgoth header (cuz I be Nosgothin'), and after months, nobody has fixed the issue of having your account logged off whenever you're away for a few minuets.

Apparently SquareEnix can't afford a single admin to maintain their websites.

SageSavage
9th Apr 2015, 15:08
Yes, the login/logout is so annoying and, like others said before, prevents me from posting more often.

Auric180
9th Apr 2015, 16:34
Invisibility is part of this game as well, as was seen in the trailer. If there was no stealth than there would be no need for the invisibility. Before jumping to conclusions wait until we know more about the game.

No jumping is being made here, just possibilities.

Btw, invisibility are being used in all out killing games... As a means to get closer before letting loose everything they got.
Or to escape a dire situation.

Doom being a biggest example... FPS, all in shooter, yet still got invisibility items.

Pinky_Powers
9th Apr 2015, 16:53
I would just like to remind everyone, all the large trailers for Human Revolution were packed full of action, too, while the game allowed you to play though without firing a single weapon. Regardless of your feelings on HR, you will admit they got that part right... with the exception of boss battles.

Don't read anything into it. That's just how the industry thinks trailers are supposed to be. If it runs for more than 30 seconds, they want an explosion.

If I were in charge, these things would be rancid with bestiality. That's the kind of action Deus Ex needs. Give me a horny sow with a curly augmented tail, and I'll show you Cyberpunk.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 17:03
@CyberP: I didn't think of DXHRs stealth as "beyond ridiculous". Far from perfect and I indeed felt that the combat side received a little more attention but stealthing was possible and not too much of a pain in the ass either.


For me Human Revolution was way better in the stealth. Every time things escalated beyond popping headshots from cover it became somewhat less enjoyable. The gunplay felt a little clunky.

C'mon people, be realistic here. Regenerating invisibility. Regenerating. That is worse than regenerating health.
Multiple stealth tools that give you such an advantage over the environment and your enemies that it really is not engaging at all, and throwing third person cover on top just to be sure.
The primary means of taking out your enemies non-lethally is a damn time-stopping win button.
I feel it features the worst design of stealth gameplay I've ever seen in a game. Metal Gear Solid had a radar and third person cover, but it also had a limited overview perspective as the primary perspective. Thief had sound and light levels as the primary tools of outsmarting your enemies. Tenchu had "Ninja senses" and little else. Splinter Cell too had very few such tools. Syphon filter is another with just third person and a radar. Deus Ex 1 had the same as Thief, and limited cloaking that only protected you against one of the two primary enemy types. Manhunt had light levels and sound. Human Revolution however had EVERYTHING, with regenerating invisibility thrown on top for good measure. Well, everything except the logical light levels and decent sound systems that are typical to first person stealth.

The gunplay in HR too was far from ideal, but at least the augmented gun battles could be intense at times.

handgriffsorgfaeltig
9th Apr 2015, 18:34
...
But yeah, I'll stay optimistic. Maybe I should actually play The Missing Link?

"In this [ h+ ],first you get the HR, then you get the Missing Link,THEN you get the DC."

Shralla
9th Apr 2015, 19:44
I personally don't see how the cover system being in 3rd person takes away from the game itself. If this were a TRUE First Person RPG that would be different, that is not what this game is.

Yeah, not anymore, which is part of why I'm frustrated by it. Deus Ex absolutely was an RPG, not just "a shooter with RPG elements." Just because it didn't have dice rolling or turn-based combat doesn't mean the RPG aspect wasn't right at the forefront of the game. And you seem to be skipping the real point, which is the third-person, not the RPG part. Deus Ex was always a first-person game. In no way was it ever a third-person game or ever designed with third-person in mind, even for future titles. The franchise itself was designed to be a first-person immersive sim, and adding third-person in place of basic functionality like leaning throws that completely out the window. They're not really designing a Deus Ex game anymore, they're designing a game that was influenced by Deus Ex. I just wish it was called something else, and that they weren't giving new players a poor impression of what the original Deus Ex had envisioned.

vallux
9th Apr 2015, 21:02
@CyberP The stealth was easy, yes. I don't know. I seem to lack the vocabulary to say what I mean. I've played them all, Syphon Filter (******* love it) Thief, Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Solid - all of them, but I still kinda like Human Revolution's stealth. It's simple, you can basically run around invisible, but I feel like there's a place for the easy stealth. Augmentations that make you feel like a badass that sort of thing.

One thing I've noticed though. I think Shralla mentioned it. It's that people on Reddit, Neogaf etc. seem to be all hyped to get a sequel to Human Revolution. I don't see a lot of mentions about Deus Ex (and Invisible War). I dunno. I liked the old ones. I like the new ones. I like the easy, I like the hard. Maybe I'm just casual. I don't pretend to understand developers motivations or why birds sing so gay and lovers await the dawn of day. I just play the damn games. I'll leave the developer influencing and with wallet voting to you people.

68_pie
9th Apr 2015, 21:32
It's that people on Reddit, Neogaf etc. seem to be all hyped to get a sequel to Human Revolution. I don't see a lot of mentions about Deus Ex (and Invisible War).

I mentioned it a few times on the old forums: any sequel we get will be DXHR:2 not DX4.

CyberP
9th Apr 2015, 21:41
We haven't even had DX2 yet...

Auric180
9th Apr 2015, 21:46
I would just like to remind everyone, all the large trailers for Human Revolution were packed full of action, too, while the game allowed you to play though without firing a single weapon. Regardless of your feelings on HR, you will admit they got that part right... with the exception of boss battles.

Don't read anything into it. That's just how the industry thinks trailers are supposed to be. If it runs for more than 30 seconds, they want an explosion.

Not sure if ur referring to me specifically :)
But like I said I'm 90% sure what you said is true.

Just saying, at least DXHR didn't say anything that would deter from familiar gameplays of past games when they showed all the "action"

Words can be game changing or just a dialog In a story.

Like SC: Conviction... They keep saying in their trailers, the old Sam is gone, pure Sam, nothing but conviction, bla bla bla.
No one take any heed to these words and bam... We got a kill only button with no body hiding ability... Well only consoles can holster his gun and then his hth is considered a KO unless he snaps someone neck...

Than in blacklist, all KO moves and non-lethal stuff are implemented by the last adjustments. :)
Exaggerating Ofcourse.

So yes what u say is likely be the case but that depends on who's incharge. Its like any anti Aug group wants to show the worst of augmented people. :D

Auric180
9th Apr 2015, 22:00
We haven't even had DX2 yet...

And I hope they keep it that way... DX don't need numbers, they're all to cause disorder and cover the truth...

just pick up a newspaper in the game and read what year they're in.
or listen to Picus News. :D

Tverdyj
9th Apr 2015, 22:10
For the record, I could live with just about anything stealth-related in HR. Except the goddamn radar.

EM, one thing that may make be buy your game full-price: make a hardcore mode, where the radar can be toggled off, ala (Thi4f's interface bits)

Also, thinking more on this trailer, I may actually be okay with this game, if there's actual melee combat, even if it's 3rd person.

... having given up on getting a proper DX out of this, I willl now be urging EM to make this as much like Bloodlines as possible, mechanics, wise.

Pinky_Powers
10th Apr 2015, 00:11
I would love to believe that EM listened to us over the years and implemented a proper melee system, like the original Deus Ex. But, as much as I love them, I doubt they did.

It occurs to me, with Adam Jensen as the protagonist again, how will they handle the ability tree? Will he start from scratch? Unlikely. Will he be God-Adam from the end of the game, with practically every aug already installed and a whole slew of new ones to upgrade?

That will change the dynamic in an unfortunate way. Much of the joy of Deus Ex is starting off with almost nothing and building the character as you go.

MasterTaffer
10th Apr 2015, 00:22
Perhaps new laws and regulations forces him to deactivate or uninstall certain augmentations.

Auric180
10th Apr 2015, 01:50
I would love to believe that EM listened to us over the years and implemented a proper melee system, like the original Deus Ex. But, as much as I love them, I doubt they did.

It occurs to me, with Adam Jensen as the protagonist again, how will they handle the ability tree? Will he start from scratch? Unlikely. Will he be God-Adam from the end of the game, with practically every aug already installed and a whole slew of new ones to upgrade?

That will change the dynamic in an unfortunate way. Much of the joy of Deus Ex is starting off with almost nothing and building the character as you go.
I'm leaning more on his Augs were severely damaged in the explosion of Pancea.
Other ways is like the previous poster mentioned. May be some are required to manually disabled for whatever reason. If so I wish its part of the prologue.

I'm hoping for customisable augs. Either stay true to what u had or replace them... Three achievements
All old augs
More than 5 changed (old dog new tricks)
Less than 5 changed (Old habits die hard)
All changed (burning old bridges)

Any names for them? :)

Pinky_Powers
10th Apr 2015, 02:42
Perhaps new laws and regulations forces him to deactivate or uninstall certain augmentations.

You would think Stab-y Arms would have been illegal this whole time. :)

I'd like to see someone try and take Adam's toys away. That won't go well for them.

3rdmillhouse
10th Apr 2015, 02:44
I would love to believe that EM listened to us over the years and implemented a proper melee system, like the original Deus Ex. But, as much as I love them, I doubt they did.

It occurs to me, with Adam Jensen as the protagonist again, how will they handle the ability tree? Will he start from scratch? Unlikely. Will he be God-Adam from the end of the game, with practically every aug already installed and a whole slew of new ones to upgrade?

That will change the dynamic in an unfortunate way. Much of the joy of Deus Ex is starting off with almost nothing and building the character as you go.

New augs. Also, during the Missing Link, Jensen had his augs switched back to factory standards to prevent him from breaking out of that interrogation chair.

Shralla
10th Apr 2015, 03:58
Either way, Deus Ex is suddenly Metroid.

vallux
10th Apr 2015, 06:52
I'd like to see someone try and take Adam's toys away. That won't go well for them.

They probably will. And it won't.

Pinky_Powers
10th Apr 2015, 12:06
Either way, Deus Ex is suddenly Metroid.

The ability to stealth through the game and play non-lethal, two concepts certain to return, would make Metroid more Deus Ex than Deus Ex Metroid.

I am worried about Adam being over-powered though. He was pretty close in the last game. The only thing that saved us was how quickly weapon fire and explosions could kill you on the highest difficulty setting.

Seeing as that wasn't an accident, that EM knew how important vulnerability was to the gameplay, I'm confident they are working out a similar balance as we speak.

I remember EM tweaking health regen and bullet damage right till end last time. Even Ashpolt allowed that it worked well. :)

Ashpolt
10th Apr 2015, 20:39
I remember EM tweaking health regen and bullet damage right till end last time. Even Ashpolt allowed that it worked well. :)

Worked alright within the context of what it was. I still don't think it was the right choice though.

Pinky_Powers
10th Apr 2015, 20:57
Worked alright within the context of what it was. I still don't think it was the right choice though.

Yet it didn't turn it into Call of Duty, which was the main worry of us all.

Ashpolt
10th Apr 2015, 22:05
Yet it didn't turn it into Call of Duty, which was the main worry of us all.

I never worried it would turn into Call of Duty, I just worried that it would turn it further away from Deus Ex. Which it did.

xaduha3
10th Apr 2015, 22:16
Speaking of Health Regen. Have you played Pillars of Eternity yet? They have a nice, hybrid system. You have Health and Endurance, Endurance regenerates between encounters. There are plenty of ways to 'heal' Endurance, not so much for the actual Health.

Pinky_Powers
11th Apr 2015, 00:31
I never worried it would turn into Call of Duty, I just worried that it would turn it further away from Deus Ex. Which it did.

Oh how easily you forget. :) Every piece of news the forum didn't like made them cry "CoD! HALO!" I can't swear you personally did exactly that, but you were indeed one of them who threw things so far out of proportion that I had to deputize myself as the forum's unofficial counterweight.

I already feel like I'm falling back into that role. But I WON'T! It's never worth it.

Also, there's just not enough news about this game yet for me to mature an impression.

3rdmillhouse
11th Apr 2015, 04:13
Oh how easily you forget. :) Every piece of news the forum didn't like made them cry "CoD! HALO!" I can't swear you personally did exactly that, but you were indeed one of them who threw things so far out of proportion that I had to deputize myself as the forum's unofficial counterweight.

I already feel like I'm falling back into that role. But I WON'T! It's never worth it.

Also, there's just not enough news about this game yet for me to mature an impression.

I remember those dark days. And they're back, in my lifetime they're back. A storm is coming.

neoWilks
11th Apr 2015, 04:53
Speaking of Health Regen. Have you played Pillars of Eternity yet? They have a nice, hybrid system. You have Health and Endurance, Endurance regenerates between encounters. There are plenty of ways to 'heal' Endurance, not so much for the actual Health.
Deus Ex had that with it's locational damage system. Specific injuries would carry over from one fight to the next without employing a med kit. Unfortunately, Human Revolution removed any real sense of connection between encounters. Survive or die. An expansion of the systems in Deus Ex would be ideal.

Shralla
11th Apr 2015, 05:09
When everybody talks about the switch to regenerating health, they never mention the fact that it was a remarkably advanced health system that it switched from. They act like it was just a regular 0-100/health pack system. Removing that alone removed a ton of depth from the series.

FrankCSIS
11th Apr 2015, 05:42
I don't remember people really mentioning CoD, besides some quirks about the inane red blurry screens of fast-paced shooters, which work in their context but would have been horrendous in this case. Early on there was someone from the team, not a CM, who tried to explain some of the reasoning behind health regen. You will recall one of the quotes which set the debate on fire was the idea that they did not want the player to stop battle progress and general forward advancement to backtrack and hunt for health.

The main issue has always been one of resource management. In regards to their audience, it turns out they were right, because even though I've never felt limited by the battery system, many of the comments I've read since the announcement trailer are "I hope they've removed the battery system, or at least offer a greater battery upgrade". Of course I still personally think what we thought we would lose in terms of depth was indeed lost, even if they managed to somewhat balance the health issue by making death a very real and possible outcome.

Shralla
11th Apr 2015, 07:52
More batteries, really? I can't even imagine... I don't think I upgraded my batteries at all. The only thing to really use them for was takedowns anyway. =/ What a mess that whole system was. I hope it's much revamped for Mankind Divided (I don't much care for that title, I've decided. It doesn't flow like Human Revolution. Too many hard consonants.)

What do you think the city hubs will be? I Prague and Montreal seem like shoe-ins at this point. What about a third? They know they can't leave out a third city hub again. Maybe classic Hong Kong, or perhaps Beijing, since China seems to always play a role?

CyberP
11th Apr 2015, 08:00
An expansion of the systems in Deus Ex would be ideal.

What did you have in mind? I've already added a stamina/endurance system (http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/videos/v71-progress#imagebox) to DX1, but when I look at the locational health system I'm not seeing any meaningful way to expand upon it.

Auric180
11th Apr 2015, 09:52
More batteries, really? I can't even imagine... I don't think I upgraded my batteries at all. The only thing to really use them for was takedowns anyway. =/ What a mess that whole system was. I hope it's much revamped for Mankind Divided (I don't much care for that title, I've decided. It doesn't flow like Human Revolution. Too many hard consonants.)

What do you think the city hubs will be? I Prague and Montreal seem like shoe-ins at this point. What about a third? They know they can't leave out a third city hub again. Maybe classic Hong Kong, or perhaps Beijing, since China seems to always play a role?

In the trailer, the first faceless person we saw says Hong Kong...
So maybe.

As for batteries, nvr touch the stuff, just pure rechargeables for me.
I can wait, full upg is fast enough.

Two bars is enough, just hope we get full charging and not just one.

68_pie
11th Apr 2015, 12:11
Why should we get any recharging? Consumables only is the way to go otherwise there are no consequences for your actions.

Auric180
11th Apr 2015, 12:33
Why should we get any recharging? Consumables only is the way to go otherwise there are no consequences for your actions.

There are always consequences, like who or what to spend that energy on and when.
Despite being able to recharge, time is always the enemy for within the time to charge may mean ur death.

If u don't treat it as a mere game at least. Rather then make a punch and hide to charge I try to make every shot count.

Consumables are more less of a challenge IMO.
It charges instantly and can be found and purchased in abundance.
With more battery slots it makes things more easier.

Unless its played with a console. Not sure if its harder to use consumables.
On pc its easy. :)

SageSavage
11th Apr 2015, 12:50
In terms of electric energy for augs, I would also want regular wall sockets to be usable as recharging points. The energy consumption of augs shouldn't be done with simplified bars but like in the original with constant drainage that depends on the augs demand.

In terms of health I'd want a combination of some minor auto-regen, items/drugs and bots. Locational damage with specific consequences is a must for a proper DX game, of course.

Dvaythavvar
11th Apr 2015, 13:02
In Wolfenstein they had sockets for you to recharge one of your weapons. The idea not to be able to reload outside the sockets was appealing. It could work for aug's too. Go with battery charged full into a mission and then you have to choose wisely how to spend any of that energy. In away I prefer slow/socket recharges to ability to fill your energy with food. Or remove ability to pause game during inventory look.

For health I do not know using health-items always fell nuisance rather than challenge. I've always been one with stealthier approach so I felt outside big fights I was filling inventory with death wight while I could have stacked something more usable. In long run I would go either way and not worry much.

Auric180
11th Apr 2015, 13:11
That's sort of what the original provided, a mobile socket...
As for the bars, its the same just the bars let u count them better.

If u use augs that drains and not suck up a portion instantly, u can see it draining like the original.

Anyway some other charging "stations" examples.
Half-life (health and suit charge)
Star Trek: Elite Force (weapon, health & shield)
Deus Ex (health & energy) mobile bots
Random games (Medical posts)

SageSavage
11th Apr 2015, 13:25
That's sort of what the original provided, a mobile socket...
As for the bars, its the same just the bars let u count them better.

If u use augs that drains and not suck up a portion instantly, u can see it draining like the original.

Ok, maybe I remembered that wrong. Played it through twice but it's been a while. I thought the augs were all instantly using a fixed number of bars.

In addition to the wall sockets (obviously just a minor source of energy) I would still want both of the originals bots (energy and health). Maybe a hacking skill could make all kinds of devices and bots into a source for energy regeneration.

Dvaythavvar
11th Apr 2015, 14:40
In addition to the wall sockets (obviously just a minor source of energy) I would still want both of the originals bots (energy and health). Maybe a hacking skill could make all kinds of devices and bots into a source for energy regeneration.

I've always regret that disabling bots and robotics in HR was pointless. They became easy to avoid with invisibility and there were no practical motivation to do anything with them, but if they'd offer me to get some return it would add extra initiative to deal with them. They are dangerous enemy in a way, but if taking the down and risking my hide (be it going on open, or finding terminal) for it for a gain would be step forward. Salvage a battery or source for energy- why not.

CyberP
11th Apr 2015, 15:29
There are always consequences, like who or what to spend that energy on and when.
Despite being able to recharge, time is always the enemy for within the time to charge may mean ur death.

If u don't treat it as a mere game at least. Rather then make a punch and hide to charge I try to make every shot count.

Consumables are more less of a challenge IMO.
It charges instantly and can be found and purchased in abundance.
With more battery slots it makes things more easier.

Unless its played with a console. Not sure if its harder to use consumables.
On pc its easy. :)

The idea is to have a fixed amount of energy consumables in the game, and (at most) perhaps infinite re-charging from static locations (repair bots). You know, so we don't have always-infinite portable recharging invisibility again. The only thing that saved HR from true ridicule was that Typhoon used ammo. Imagine if that was recharging + No ammo requirements like cloak was? Ha.

Auric180
11th Apr 2015, 19:24
The idea is to have a fixed amount of energy consumables in the game, and (at most) perhaps infinite re-charging from static locations (repair bots). You know, so we don't have always-infinite portable recharging invisibility again. The only thing that saved HR from true ridicule was that Typhoon used ammo. Imagine if that was recharging + No ammo requirements like cloak was? Ha.

Ya, that'll be crazy. Never did touch the stuff. Personally I like to know I have at least that three seconds of cloak.
Makes it feel like the movies, able to sneak by whenever I want to, unless I'm out of bars. :D

When there's limit like in the original, I never touch the cloak even if i got dozens of bio energy.
But thanks to the limited energy recharge. I use it with fun like in the animes films.

Pinky_Powers
11th Apr 2015, 21:26
More batteries, really? I can't even imagine... I don't think I upgraded my batteries at all.

In all my play-throughs, batteries were always one of the very last things I would upgrade. After I had everything else I could want or use, and Praxis points to spare. The stock number was limiting, but ultimately enough.

Shralla
11th Apr 2015, 23:37
Ya, that'll be crazy. Never did touch the stuff. Personally I like to know I have at least that three seconds of cloak.
Makes it feel like the movies, able to sneak by whenever I want to, unless I'm out of bars. :D

And that right there is exactly why some people have an issue with it. With the type of game Deus Ex was designed to be, you're not supposed to always know you have three seconds of cloak. You should have to manage your resources, or suffer the consequences. Consequences which could potentially mean that you don't have the ability to cloak, lift, or use any augs until you find some resources.


In all my play-throughs, batteries were always one of the very last things I would upgrade. After I had everything else I could want or use, and Praxis points to spare. The stock number was limiting, but ultimately enough.

I had something like six praxis left at the end of the game that I had no desire to spend. That's a problem. When you got an augmentation canister in the original, you didn't cart that **** around forever while you decided what to do with it (partially because it took up inventory space), you made your choice and you stuck with it, knowing full well that an entire augmentation was now off-limits to you. Choice and consequence, as it should be. The system from HR is little better than hot-swapping bio-mods in Invisible War.

3rdmillhouse
12th Apr 2015, 00:17
I spent all my Praxis points, even though there were some augments that I never used.

Shralla
12th Apr 2015, 01:38
And that's definitely an issue. In a game that claims to be about choice and consequence, the whole thing falls flat on its face when the player ends up picking things they never use just because there's nothing else left. The original very much had a quality over quantity idea when it came to the augs. Regardless of the balance in the end, they went with a smaller number of augmentations that had a much more substantial impact on the gameplay. Going back to a similarly structured system would hugely benefit the augmentations. No more BS "slightly improve how long you can sprint" upgrades.

Auric180
12th Apr 2015, 04:32
And that right there is exactly why some people have an issue with it. With the type of game Deus Ex was designed to be, you're not supposed to always know you have three seconds of cloak. You should have to manage your resources, or suffer the consequences. Consequences which could potentially mean that you don't have the ability to cloak, lift, or use any augs until you find some resources.

Pointless to me, as with the old or new system, I rarely use anything and don't need to. Hence boring...
So the old system doesn't provide a challenge either.

The new system lets me loosen up a bit.
Even though I did my first play through with no augs :D

I think a real challenge will be just two bars and the same recharge rate but no consumables. Force us only to wait. U got two shots at most and then nothing for like a minute. Can't just, shoot eat punch eat stab.

Pinky_Powers
12th Apr 2015, 05:52
I had something like six praxis left at the end of the game that I had no desire to spend. That's a problem. When you got an augmentation canister in the original, you didn't cart that **** around forever while you decided what to do with it (partially because it took up inventory space), you made your choice and you stuck with it, knowing full well that an entire augmentation was now off-limits to you. Choice and consequence, as it should be. The system from HR is little better than hot-swapping bio-mods in Invisible War.

I agree that Praxis points were given out way too easily. While it's fun to play around with all the Augs, it weakens the overall experience. Eidos Montréal delivered well on choice, but frequently failed on the consequence column.

Dvaythavvar
12th Apr 2015, 07:48
I agree that Praxis points were given out way too easily. While it's fun to play around with all the Augs, it weakens the overall experience. Eidos Montréal delivered well on choice, but frequently failed on the consequence column.

In my opinion bigger problem was that you really didn't even need augs. And the few you needed were probably due to just kill bosses. Or maybe grenades would have done same job, I never tried. Should do 0 augs run to test that theory.

Pinky_Powers
12th Apr 2015, 09:36
In my opinion bigger problem was that you really didn't even need augs. And the few you needed were probably due to just kill bosses. Or maybe grenades would have done same job, I never tried. Should do 0 augs run to test that theory.

Not at all. Being able to tackle objectives your way is what Deus Ex is all about. You should NEVER need any one thing. You should look at what you do have and figure out how to use it to overcome the problem in front of you. If you don't have the claymore aug, perhaps you have a grenade. If you don't have a passcode, maybe you have an explosive to get through that door.

The Augments broaden what you can do and where you can go. That's the way it should be. That feels real. If you needed them to pass arbitrary roadblocks, that would feel very game-y.

Sadly, in Human Revolution you aren't nearly as vulnerable as you were in Deus Ex, so you don't spent nearly the same time deliberating over how to neutralize each threat.

3rdmillhouse
12th Apr 2015, 23:20
Sadly, in Human Revolution you aren't nearly as vulnerable as you were in Deus Ex, so you don't spent nearly the same time deliberating over how to neutralize each threat.

So are you telling us that mechanical augmentations are in fact superior to nano-agumentation? I always knew it, Adam Jensen is after all the augmented ubermensch.

Pinky_Powers
13th Apr 2015, 00:12
So are you telling us that mechanical augmentations are in fact superior to nano-agumentation? I always knew it, Adam Jensen is after all the augmented ubermensch.

I would say it has more to do with weapon accuracy and the cover system. It makes combat, both lethal and non-lethal, a lot easier than it was in Deus Ex.

Auric180
13th Apr 2015, 00:53
In my opinion bigger problem was that you really didn't even need augs. And the few you needed were probably due to just kill bosses. Or maybe grenades would have done same job, I never tried. Should do 0 augs run to test that theory.

Do try, it is possible.
Did it in my first run high difficulty. (pacifist & no Aug achievement)

So even with lack of experience and no augs, u can find ur way through everything.
Especially with the director's cut which added more options in boss fights.
I had to shoot them down... Later I found a way to take Barret & the girl down in aprox 11 secs without augs.
There were more creative ways to handle them but those methods require augs and bugs. :)

Got an achievement for it, if I recall correctly. Don't worry about using takedowns, that's not counted since u already have that.

3rdmillhouse
13th Apr 2015, 04:08
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCFdDWMWgAA8gzp.png:large

Dvaythavvar
13th Apr 2015, 04:34
Not at all. Being able to tackle objectives your way is what Deus Ex is all about. You should NEVER need any one thing. You should look at what you do have and figure out how to use it to overcome the problem in front of you. If you don't have the claymore aug, perhaps you have a grenade. If you don't have a passcode, maybe you have an explosive to get through that door.

The Augments broaden what you can do and where you can go. That's the way it should be. That feels real. If you needed them to pass arbitrary roadblocks, that would feel very game-y.

Sadly, in Human Revolution you aren't nearly as vulnerable as you were in Deus Ex, so you don't spent nearly the same time deliberating over how to neutralize each threat.

I agree with you. I am all for not needing specific augs, but if you do not need any at all, it has risk to make game too easy, on the lack of better term. I may sound critical on HR, yet I still believe it was one of the best games ever made - especially on the time it came out. however there was potential for much better experience.

I would love to sit and tackle a problem like a puzzle and ponder why on earth I didn't take this or that aug, but in HR case it doesn't matter. You can hack important treminals, there's most cases a safe vent and dealing with enemies with 0 augs isn't much hassle either. But I want augs to matter. Give me edge on one place, give me disadvantage on other - if that makes sense ?

Do try, it is possible.
Did it in my first run high difficulty. (pacifist & no Aug achievement)

So even with lack of experience and no augs, u can find ur way through everything.
Especially with the director's cut which added more options in boss fights.
I had to shoot them down... Later I found a way to take Barret & the girl down in aprox 11 secs without augs.
There were more creative ways to handle them but those methods require augs and bugs. :)

Got an achievement for it, if I recall correctly. Don't worry about using takedowns, that's not counted since u already have that.
Actually i think I should re-install vanilla instead DC and see how that feels again. :D Otherhand my vanilla is cheat too with its special weapons and unlock devices and cash :/

Auric180
13th Apr 2015, 05:37
I would love to sit and tackle a problem like a puzzle and ponder why on earth I didn't take this or that aug, but in HR case it doesn't matter. You can hack important treminals, there's most cases a safe vent and dealing with enemies with 0 augs isn't much hassle either. But I want augs to matter. Give me edge on one place, give me disadvantage on other - if that makes sense ?

Actually i think I should re-install vanilla instead DC and see how that feels again. :D Otherhand my vanilla is cheat too with its special weapons and unlock devices and cash :/

It does make sense but seriously I don't feel that even in the original. So if people say the ori makes them have to think on what to do or get...
Oo

Its simple, the augs in the original have two choice each.
One is to do something more against foes, the other is to find new strange stuff.

Arm 1: Kill better or break stuff faster
Arm 2: Lift heavy stuff to find hidden stuff

Leg 1: Run like a mice pass NPCs
Leg 2: Run fast and jump high to find hidden stuff

Eye 1: Target better to shoot
Eye 2: Infra red, night vision, sonar sensors... (need say more?)

Cranial 1: Boom incoming missiles
Cranial 2: Tiny drone spy EMP explosion

Lungs swim longer or gas immune?

Basically if u want secrets choose the unique one that
Allows u to go the distance...

The other choice is just for gun hoe people, well the legs lets them run close to enemies without sound. :D


Ur game sounds like the augmented edition?
Or u buy dlcs separately.

I think vanilla is not necessary. Just ignore the new areas in a boss fight and its the same. :)

Haven't actually finish the director cut so dunno if anything else different.

But one important thing, I'm not sure if its patch or because of the edition... Those extra gadgets and weapons u mentioned? In the DC they place them in the game to find and not straight away get I in the chopper. Makes it more immersive that way and I like it. :)
Not cheating at all, lol

SonicSidewinder
14th Apr 2015, 20:07
Punished Jensen

Howling.

Shralla
15th Apr 2015, 04:26
JFD confirms that the next Deus Ex game will have things that Deus Ex games have.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/14/deus-ex-mankind-divided-director-shares-new-info-about-bosses-difficulty

Tverdyj
16th Apr 2015, 14:14
Huh.


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/04/16/deus-ex-mankind-divided-no-kill/

You now don't have to kill bosses. I must admit, I like that, provided it's done well.

It would appear EM at least trying to address the most glaring points HR was criticised for. If this keeps up, in about 2 months at most we will hear the XP system was overhauled.

While this isn't a conceptual overhaul diehard fans have been clamoring for, it's at the very least a step in the right direction, provided the non-lethal option is handled well in the story (see Bioshock 2 for how to do an inobtrusive but powerful C+C overlay in your game).

I also feel it'd be really cool to have Jensen's style reflect in the inevitable cutscenes--example: you reach an objective (office with the target and 2-3 guards). You open the door and cutscen begins. If you've been mostly violent up to now, Adam eliminates the guards, and out come the armblades. If you've been ghosting, a few punches get the job done instead. And if you've been a gun maniac, the cutscene features a blaring alarm, and Adam busts down the door, shooting all but the target.


But most of all, I want to hear the announcement that the easy mode radar is now optional. That may even make me instabuy.

...dammit, EM, you're making me feel hopeful again.

Shralla
16th Apr 2015, 18:49
The link I posted said that. It doesn't mean anything. They included stealth options for the bosses in the Director's Cut also, but only after community outrage. They're doing this because they now know it's expected. It's not part of some plan to revitalize the influence the original has on the new ones.

Pinky_Powers
16th Apr 2015, 19:46
The link I posted said that. It doesn't mean anything. They included stealth options for the bosses in the Director's Cut also, but only after community outrage. They're doing this because they now know it's expected. It's not part of some plan to revitalize the influence the original has on the new ones.

No. No. and No, Shralla. They're doing it because they knew the boss battles were bad, long before the game released. They knew it, but couldn't do anything about it. Their scheduled wouldn't allow for it, and they had to pass the Boss Fights off on another company.

Now, this is no one's fault but EMs. I agree. But their intentions were always to give us Boss Fights like we saw in the Missing Link (which was one of the best encounters I've ever seen in a game.).

EM was WAY over their head last time round. Any studio would be, if their hadn't made a Deus Ex game before. We're lucky HR turned out as well as it did.

Still... I want more and better this time. I wonder if they can manage.

Dvaythavvar
16th Apr 2015, 20:13
The link I posted said that. It doesn't mean anything. They included stealth options for the bosses in the Director's Cut also, but only after community outrage. They're doing this because they now know it's expected. It's not part of some plan to revitalize the influence the original has on the new ones.

Boss fights were done by 3rd party. By people, who liked FPS games and had no knowledge about DX itself. So I presume (read: hope) that for MD everyone has learned their lessons.

68_pie
16th Apr 2015, 20:17
They're doing it because they knew the boss battles were bad, long before the game released. They knew it, but couldn't do anything about it. Their scheduled wouldn't allow for it, and they had to pass the Boss Fights off on another company.

I could swear they said that they didn't realise there was a problem with boss fights and that none of the playtesters complained about it so it came as a surprise to them? Or am I thinking of one of the other numerous issues?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
16th Apr 2015, 20:33
I remember it was the object highlighting they were surprised about.
Pinky is right; they did know. An example:
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Eidos-Deus-Ex-Human-Revolution-Boss-Fights-Were-Our-Fault-36640.html

NUMBER8ISGREAT
16th Apr 2015, 20:59
The link I posted said that. It doesn't mean anything. They included stealth options for the bosses in the Director's Cut also, but only after community outrage. They're doing this because they now know it's expected. It's not part of some plan to revitalize the influence the original has on the new ones.

So the community is outraged, they changed boss battles (and released a gimped and broken Director's Cut) and now they're doing it because it's expected. What was the basis of the communities outrage? Their understanding of the original?

Hopefully you can see where I'm going with this.

Tverdyj
17th Apr 2015, 13:26
The point isn't whether they change the boss battle style per se.

What I'm hoping for is that this means they re-think the storytelling paradigm, expanding the choice and consequence model.
For instance, in HR EM missed a good moment of choice with Fedorova's death. Eliza specifically asks tells Adam he could save her, but the choice is made for us. I can see how it fits thematically with the original "all bosses mus be killed with guns, end of story" vision, but it's not consistent with the "you can decide to let them live" mentality the game's going for in TML.

Again, I will repeat myself-take a look at Bioshock 2. Though it's not talked about much, it had an effective, if simplistic, choice and consequence model, which made the ending seem more personal and more relevant. I don't expect EM to go all "alpha protocol" with MD, but something like that can be worked in relatively easy, without moving far away from the "established mass-market appeal tropes".

Also, make the easymode radar optional (I think I'll be ending my every post with this line from now on).

Pinky_Powers
17th Apr 2015, 17:36
This is an example of how one's disappointment in Eidos Montréal leads to an internalized anger, which leads them to believe that something like HR Boss Fights was EM's full and perfected WILL.

The argument is, if EM can willingly implement 3rd-person cover or the like, they MUST have willed Boss Fights into existence. Even when we know otherwise, it doesn't sink in. The rage won't let it.

Over the years I've often cautioned what I'll caution now: Balance. Reason. Eidos did more right with Human Revolution than they did wrong.

Tverdyj
17th Apr 2015, 20:15
Was that directed to me?

Because while I am somewhat in the "purist" camp, I've stated repeatedly that there are certain things I felt HR did really well, and I DID feel it was one of the most enjoyable games the year I played it. I liked it enough to buy TML and the DC and enjoyed playing through both.

That doesn't mean I won't criticise EM, or say there aren't things I believe should be done differently. While HR was an above-average game, it wasn't a masterpiece. I'd like it to be a better FPS/RPG (I don't see the franchise goinf back to imsim anytime soon). Though I personally disagree with bringing Adam back, I'm willing to look past that, and at this point i'd just like them to make their iterations (and to me the decision to keep Adam is a signal they are going for iteration on HR's ideas) make the game better. The C+C was one aspect that HR didn't touch on much, past the pretty immediate things (rescue Josie, get discount through Greg. Take chip, get handicap).
I feel that the boss battles were a large part of that, thematically. The choice to give us a "no guns" approach is a good step- but in the end you still get the the cut scene of a Tyrant dying. This time, I want to see them implement options of "dealing" with the bosses in different ways -BOTH through in-game mechanics, AND through the way the story is told based on those choices.

It's not anger. I'm actually trying to be constructive.

Also, make the easymode radar optional.

Pinky_Powers
17th Apr 2015, 20:56
No. I wasn't referring to you. At least, I don't think I was. Haven't read much of your posts, so... I guess I could be. :)

Shralla
24th Apr 2015, 20:27
This year Bethesda and Square-Enix are hosting their first-ever E3 conferences. I guess we know when we'll see MD gameplay.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/23/square-enix-announces-press-conference-plans-for-e3-2015

EDIT: Oh wow, apparently there's a Mankind Divided forum? How long has that been there? I would have thought there'd be an announcement here, but I guess maybe the mods don't want us old coots hanging around there complaining all the time.

EDIT 2: But it looks like all you folks are already over there! Why am I the last to know these things?!

xaduha3
25th Apr 2015, 09:41
You didn't get the memo?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
25th Apr 2015, 11:46
EDIT: Oh wow, apparently there's a Mankind Divided forum? How long has that been there? I would have thought there'd be an announcement here, but I guess maybe the mods don't want us old coots hanging around there complaining all the time.

EDIT 2: But it looks like all you folks are already over there! Why am I the last to know these things?!

Haha, awwww. :friends:

Shralla
25th Apr 2015, 16:25
So I reckon this forum is going to up and die. The tech support forum will probably still be active but really, what's left to say about HR at this point that we can't just transfer on to MD?

xaduha3
25th Apr 2015, 16:42
This one exists too http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/forumdisplay.php?f=196
Ded.