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View Full Version : The Law, Max and You: The reason for the eclipse and her losing her powers



Xanvis
7th Apr 2015, 16:19
Now, this may be the inane ramblings of a insomniac and conspiracy theorist but go with me. (Mind you, there will be spoilers....and I don't know how to use the spoiler tag so please correct :) )


Any Fullmetal fan should know the first law of alchemy: "Humankind cannot gain anything without giving something in return, to obtain something of equal value must be lost." The universe in all it's orderly chaotic nature lives off that law...even us in real life...use Equivalent Exchange in our lives...we just don't think about it. When Max saved Chloe(sp) using her powers she paid no cost AND saved a life that was MEANT to be taken.

Now the universe is completely in chaos since Max rewrote Chloe's life...anyone find it strange that right as Max lost her powers Kate was going to jump? It seemed everyone in Blackwell was against her if they wanted to be or not... and the eclipse happened after Max attempted to save Kate.

Rewinding time is a serious ability...Max lost her powers cause 1.) She over-exerted herself and 2.) She paid no cost when she did attempt to use it.

The wear and tear on her body is the universe attempting to correct the cost...if we want everything to go back to normal...Chloe has to die...

Again, this is ramblings and I'm sorry...don't be too harsh :) *Hugs*

DeftDesu
7th Apr 2015, 18:05
Alright, lets start from the basics. Most people seem to forget that the first hurricane vision you get is actually before you save Chloe. What does this mean? It means that even if there will be a butterfly effect later on considering your time interference actions, the hurricane is NOT it.

Now, to touch a bit on timelines and my point of view on them. In my opinion once you interfere on a timeline you ruin its balance thus there will be effects (yeah, we all knew that genius, go on!). The point which i want to emphasize on is that once you ruin its balance by time jumping and interfering, there is no going back.
What does this mean? This means that the timeline is now corrupted and cannot be healed, nor reset to normal . Where im taking it is: If you somehow,one day realize that the action you took back in the day(saving Chloe in this example) was not the right one, and you want to go back and let it as it was, will not reset the timeline to normal or ''resume'' as if Chloe had died in the bathroom back in episode 1. From the moment you change something aka time interfere, you corrupt the timeline (past,present,future), undoing what you did in a later stage aka killing Chloe in episode4 for example wont heal the corrupted timeline and wont prevent the butterfly effect (which in this case IS NOT the hurricane). In other words, from the moment you saved her, harm is done, killing her or anyone else later on as a ''dept'' repayment to the timeline won't change anything. Timeline is not a bank that keeps track of saved lives and can immediately balance out when you repay(kill Chloe later on in this very example). Once it loses its balance, a new track is carved.

If you pay close attention to the episode2 trailer it states: ''what if a great gift was bestowed for a greater purpose''. My theory is that your powers are there for the hurricane prevention, and Max's worries of her power being lost which are stated after train event, probably show that after you prevent the hurricane you might lose them. Now the how you got them might have something to do with Rachel, either way it remains to be seen.

I really hope i made sense. The timeline theory is a personal point of view of course. Cheers for the read!

Max151515I
8th Apr 2015, 00:15
Alright, lets start from the basics. Most people seem to forget that the first hurricane vision you get is actually before you save Chloe. What does this mean? It means that even if there will be a butterfly effect later on considering your time interference actions, the hurricane is NOT it.

Now, to touch a bit on timelines and my point of view on them. In my opinion once you interfere on a timeline you ruin its balance thus there will be effects (yeah, we all knew that genius, go on!). The point which i want to emphasize on is that once you ruin its balance by time jumping and interfering, there is no going back.
What does this mean? This means that the timeline is now corrupted and cannot be healed, nor reset to normal . Where im taking it is: If you somehow,one day realize that the action you took back in the day(saving Chloe in this example) was not the right one, and you want to go back and let it as it was, will not reset the timeline to normal or ''resume'' as if Chloe had died in the bathroom back in episode 1. From the moment you change something aka time interfere, you corrupt the timeline (past,present,future), undoing what you did in a later stage aka killing Chloe in episode4 for example wont heal the corrupted timeline and wont prevent the butterfly effect (which in this case IS NOT the hurricane). In other words, from the moment you saved her, harm is done, killing her or anyone else later on as a ''dept'' repayment to the timeline won't change anything. Timeline is not a bank that keeps track of saved lives and can immediately balance out when you repay(kill Chloe later on in this very example). Once it loses its balance, a new track is carved.

If you pay close attention to the episode2 trailer it states: ''what if a great gift was bestowed for a greater purpose''. My theory is that your powers are there for the hurricane prevention, and Max's worries of her power being lost which are stated after train event, probably show that after you prevent the hurricane you might lose them. Now the how you got them might have something to do with Rachel, either way it remains to be seen.

I really hope i made sense. The timeline theory is a personal point of view of course. Cheers for the read!


This is some great theory. Didn't yet thought about that so deeply.
But it makes really sense what you said. If I would find my own words...
my own theory... it would find same phrases as yours.

EternalAmbiguity
8th Apr 2015, 02:53
Alright, lets start from the basics. Most people seem to forget that the first hurricane vision you get is actually before you save Chloe. What does this mean? It means that even if there will be a butterfly effect later on considering your time interference actions, the hurricane is NOT it.

Now, to touch a bit on timelines and my point of view on them. In my opinion once you interfere on a timeline you ruin its balance thus there will be effects (yeah, we all knew that genius, go on!). The point which i want to emphasize on is that once you ruin its balance by time jumping and interfering, there is no going back.
What does this mean? This means that the timeline is now corrupted and cannot be healed, nor reset to normal . Where im taking it is: If you somehow,one day realize that the action you took back in the day(saving Chloe in this example) was not the right one, and you want to go back and let it as it was, will not reset the timeline to normal or ''resume'' as if Chloe had died in the bathroom back in episode 1. From the moment you change something aka time interfere, you corrupt the timeline (past,present,future), undoing what you did in a later stage aka killing Chloe in episode4 for example wont heal the corrupted timeline and wont prevent the butterfly effect (which in this case IS NOT the hurricane). In other words, from the moment you saved her, harm is done, killing her or anyone else later on as a ''dept'' repayment to the timeline won't change anything. Timeline is not a bank that keeps track of saved lives and can immediately balance out when you repay(kill Chloe later on in this very example). Once it loses its balance, a new track is carved.

If you pay close attention to the episode2 trailer it states: ''what if a great gift was bestowed for a greater purpose''. My theory is that your powers are there for the hurricane prevention, and Max's worries of her power being lost which are stated after train event, probably show that after you prevent the hurricane you might lose them. Now the how you got them might have something to do with Rachel, either way it remains to be seen.

I really hope i made sense. The timeline theory is a personal point of view of course. Cheers for the read!

You should really play Final Fantasy XIII-2.

OHWceta
9th Apr 2015, 23:44
Episode 2 starts pulling us into "Chaos Theory" an appropriate name for Episode 3. I think the "Visions" of the Tornado are caused by two timelines intersecting and temporal distortion causes fragments of one timeline to overlap into another. In a sense Future Max trying to send Past Max a message maybe? But back to chaos theory, it is in a sense another way of saying "The Butterfly Effect" Of course if you're familiar with the butterfly effect, they say a butterfly flapping its wings can cause an earthquake halfway around the world. It's "Chaotic" because the cause and effect seem completely unrelated. So imagine how many variables would be tampered with when Max saves someone who was originally supposed to die. That variable change would create "something wrong" in the world, hence the odd weather.

DeftDesu
10th Apr 2015, 09:33
Episode 2 starts pulling us into "Chaos Theory" an appropriate name for Episode 3. I think the "Visions" of the Tornado are caused by two timelines intersecting and temporal distortion causes fragments of one timeline to overlap into another. In a sense Future Max trying to send Past Max a message maybe? But back to chaos theory, it is in a sense another way of saying "The Butterfly Effect" Of course if you're familiar with the butterfly effect, they say a butterfly flapping its wings can cause an earthquake halfway around the world. It's "Chaotic" because the cause and effect seem completely unrelated. So imagine how many variables would be tampered with when Max saves someone who was originally supposed to die. That variable change would create "something wrong" in the world, hence the odd weather.

Generally speaking my theory revolves around a single timeline. Nevertheless, it's not impossible for more timelines to be mixed, causing the fragment overlap and the hurricane visions. As far as i go, i still prefer to relate them to Rachel than a second timeline since I'm pretty loyal to the single timeline point of view and not a fan of the multiple parallel irrelevant with each other timelines theory. When the weather is concerned, yes, it could easily be the effect of your Chloe save since you greatly interfered with the timeline, important part is to differentiate the butterfly effect(odd weather/eclipse possibly) with the hurricane, since the first hurricane vision is before you actually save her(timeline interfere) as mentioned in the first post above.

As always, its all personal opinion and personal point of view, cheers for the read!

thedreadpersephone
10th Apr 2015, 13:31
Hi,

I have two thoughts.

First: why are you assuming Max is losing her powers? The way I experienced it, Max was unable to rewind time far enough back to save Kate - she has only ever been able to rewind back so far and this was not long enough to arrive at the scene, go upstairs etc. Instead, she figured out how to freeze time. This is not a loss of powers but gaining a new understanding of how they work. Once on the roof, fair enough, she can no longer rewind time. But I took this to be because of the physical side effects of nose bleeds, headaches etc. Clearly using the power puts a lot of strain on Max and maybe she has over-exerted herself. Certainly in my incompetent play through, she used her power a lot that day. From a more practical point of view, I doubt that Max will be unable to use her powers throughout the next 3 episodes as the ability to rewind time is a central aspect of the game!

Second: talking about what is 'meant' to happen doesn't work for me. For something to be 'meant to happen' or planned, there has to be someone or something out there that has made all these decisions. I just don't believe in that. Therefore I believe that if you change something, the new timeline is just that, a new timeline, with no debts or the universe being annoyed that you interfered. However, that's just my personal belief about how the real universe works and says nothing about the game universe.

TheEmissary
10th Apr 2015, 14:24
First: why are you assuming Max is losing her powers? The way I experienced it, Max was unable to rewind time far enough back to save Kate - she has only ever been able to rewind back so far and this was not long enough to arrive at the scene, go upstairs etc. Instead, she figured out how to freeze time. This is not a loss of powers but gaining a new understanding of how they work. Once on the roof, fair enough, she can no longer rewind time. But I took this to be because of the physical side effects of nose bleeds, headaches etc. Clearly using the power puts a lot of strain on Max and maybe she has over-exerted herself. Certainly in my incompetent play through, she used her power a lot that day. From a more practical point of view, I doubt that Max will be unable to use her powers throughout the next 3 episodes as the ability to rewind time is a central aspect of the game!He meant her temporary loss of power. Max obviously got her powers back, since she could rewind in the principals office. Max is certainly paying a price for her powers, but I also don't think it's part of some meaningful philosophical balance thing. It's probably just about limiting her powers for dramatic effect, like in other stories.


Second: talking about what is 'meant' to happen doesn't work for me. For something to be 'meant to happen' or planned, there has to be someone or something out there that has made all these decisions. I just don't believe in that. Therefore I believe that if you change something, the new timeline is just that, a new timeline, with no debts or the universe being annoyed that you interfered. However, that's just my personal belief about how the real universe works and says nothing about the game universe.The idea of a "destined" timeline is not necessarily a bad one IMHO. The Star Trek Reboot toyed with the idea of destiny and a self-repairing timeline, even though some of it was cut in the end. You can do pretty cool things with a concept like that, but the viewer/player has to know something about the default-timeline to fully appreciate it.

DeftDesu
13th Apr 2015, 23:33
Second: talking about what is 'meant' to happen doesn't work for me. For something to be 'meant to happen' or planned, there has to be someone or something out there that has made all these decisions. I just don't believe in that. Therefore I believe that if you change something, the new timeline is just that, a new timeline, with no debts or the universe being annoyed that you interfered. However, that's just my personal belief about how the real universe works and says nothing about the game universe.

As mentioned at the end of my every response, its all personal point of view. You share OHWceta's vewpoint, the one of multiple parallel irrelevant with each other timelines. Meaning that a change in one timeline, just creates a new one with no debts and without the universe being mad at you as you said, aka irrelevant with the others. In his theory 2 of them overlap and long story short, here come the tornado visions. As i also stated in my response to him/her, i don't share the same opinion since im more of a one ''destined' timeline guy, thats how i look at it. The lack of evidence and knowledge with time traveling allows all viewpoints to be expressed and be considered valid since there is no right and wrong yet. As most of the times, truth probably rests somewhere in the middle of these two or more theories. Now on which of the two(or possibly another) timeline theory the game is based on remains to be seen.

Your first thought about Max's power loss is answered by TheEmissary, no need for me to paraphrase the same idea.

allicastery
18th Apr 2015, 20:12
What if the tornado was really just gonna be a regular tornado and because max does all these things the universe gets out of whack (like you said) and it spirals out of control into the gigantic tornado we've been seeing. (sry if this was said already **** )