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Saikocat
2nd Apr 2015, 16:49
Hey everyone,

The ESL Nosgoth Open Beta Cup is started, and we've detailed some of the specifics here on the blog, including a breakdown of the new prize pool.

http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/changes-to-the-esl-nosgoth-beta-cup-series

Note: If you took part in the Closed Beta Cup, you'll be receiving your banner, they're being given out manually so it may take us a bit of time to get all of them done, bear with me :)

--Ram--
2nd Apr 2015, 17:43
Any chance Aus/Asia will get to play this time around? The changes are nice but it is really disappointing to be excluded.

Da_Wolv
2nd Apr 2015, 18:19
Loving it!
Nice to see that the competitive community is getting some love!

Talespin
3rd Apr 2015, 05:09
So, let me see if I get this right...

You split the competitive community by region locking tournaments because a lot of EU players were upset that they couldn't win anything. Then when 90% of the competitive players magically stop playing (yeah, who saw this coming) you decide to give the one region with an already decent number of players more money instead of trying to resurrect the NA scene by giving them more incentive to compete. You really think some runestones are going to cut it?

You just spit in the face of every person in NA that's actively trying to keep the competitive scene alive over the last 6 months.

--Ram--
3rd Apr 2015, 06:01
You just spit in the face of every person in NA that's actively trying to keep the competitive scene alive over the last 6 months.

Wow they actually did, I assumed the money split between EU and US was even still. Pretty lame stuff right there.

ApollosBow
3rd Apr 2015, 06:35
So, let me see if I get this right...

You split the competitive community by region locking tournaments because a lot of EU players were upset that they couldn't win anything. Then when 90% of the competitive players magically stop playing (yeah, who saw this coming) you decide to give the one region with an already decent number of players more money instead of trying to resurrect the NA scene by giving them more incentive to compete. You really think some runestones are going to cut it?

You just spit in the face of every person in NA that's actively trying to keep the competitive scene alive over the last 6 months.

Maybe the EU have more skill so they get more money.......yup that must be it (ツ)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11073566_10153121632970482_9208396849145077431_n.jpg?oh=dba64686215095b13ad4d660a89ff96b&oe=55A66659&__gda__=1436963919_b6edf019b401d606a4c973934af233cd

Da_Wolv
3rd Apr 2015, 07:48
Wow they actually did, I assumed the money split between EU and US was even still. Pretty lame stuff right there.

Oh really... damn.
I mean I can understand where they are coming from (seeing as there are usually only 3 teams signing up for NA Cups.. on a good day), but I guess I have to agree with Talespin, they should expand that price pool.
Maybe they will, once the scene starts going again?

In any case, what did the NA Scene do to get to this state anyway? I mean, here in EU we had some droughts every week or two, but there are at least 5 somewhat stable teams around.

Talespin
3rd Apr 2015, 10:43
In any case, what did the NA Scene do to get to this state anyway? I mean, here in EU we had some droughts every week or two, but there are at least 5 somewhat stable teams around.
There were plenty of teams at the start but then they set region locks and only had 1st place prizes for 20+ tournaments in a row so most teams that didn't have a chance of winning gave up. Did they really expect people to compete in this clunky and imbalanced game just for fun? It was obvious things would degrade to the current situation but they really, really didn't care and gave us excuses like "sorry we don't handle ESL stuff, Square Enix does" every time we would try and talk to them about fixing the situation.

For the past 5 months we've been advocating changes like multiple prizes for 2nd/3rd/etc placing teams, removing region locks to let more teams participate in total, and what do we get? When they finally do something about it we end up get punished for a smaller scene that Psyonix/Square had a hand in causing. Not to mention at the heart of competitive gaming the best team should win, but instead team's that have never beaten us in any scrim, on any map, ever, are going to be winning greater prize pools just because they're in a region that have a few more teams signing up.

It's a complete disgrace and honestly I'm not surprised by it anymore.

HexMee
3rd Apr 2015, 10:58
Only you have the capability of fueling your anger on one of the biggest and best news to ever happen to competitive nosgoth tale.
Would you be here **** if all that happened was that NA got runestone prices for 2nd and 3rd etc? Obviously not, it's always about you crying like a baby because someone else got something and you didn't. But yeah, like you said in your post, I'm not surprised by it anymore.

Regarding the actual post:
These are great news, a step in the right direction for BOTH regions and I look forward to what it will ignite!

--Ram--
3rd Apr 2015, 12:04
Only you have the capability of fueling your anger on one of the biggest and best news to ever happen to competitive nosgoth tale.


It is good for you and EU, that's it. For the rest it isn't remotely big or great. For the oceanic region competitive Nosgoth doesn't even exist due to the region lock, my team can't even play at all regardless of the fact that if we did it would be with a crippling ping disadvantage which we would have to accept.

Personally I would much rather watch US teams play and find it ridiculous that some of that EU money didn't get split to encourage that side of things.

Da_Wolv
3rd Apr 2015, 13:16
There were plenty of teams at the start but then they set region locks and only had 1st place prizes for 20+ tournaments in a row so most teams that didn't have a chance of winning gave up..

Well, EU had the same amount of tournaments, and while for the longest time there were at least 2 teams with a shot at winning each week, there were also plenty of other teams (and players) that are still around and play regardless of never winning a single Cup.

The region lock thing is another issue entirely, while I am hugely in favour of segregating as much as possible for ping reasons, I don't see why a small scene like NA cannot allow Oceanic teams. A full blown Worldwide Cup could also be something that they could do once a month or so...



Not to mention at the heart of competitive gaming the best team should win, but instead team's that have never beaten us in any scrim, on any map, ever, are going to be winning greater prize pools just because they're in a region that have a few more teams signing up.

You already have a quasi-monopoly on the NA price pool, so what you're saying is that you simply want the EU to get less? Coz if you win in Global or NA, 1st place is 1st place.
Besides the point, if they would pool all the cash together, and give out prices from lets say 1st to 12th for a global cup - I'd be down with that.

RazielWarmonic
3rd Apr 2015, 15:31
The region lock thing is another issue entirely, while I am hugely in favour of segregating as much as possible for ping reasons, I don't see why a small scene like NA cannot allow Oceanic teams. A full blown Worldwide Cup could also be something that they could do once a month or so...

The whole reason the region lock is there is because of ping, supposedly, at least. If they were to allow OCE to play in NA, why couldn't NA play in EU, since it'll be about the same ping?

I'm all for removing the region lock or just merging both cups into one (I'd love to see a world cup!), but alas, the "majority" says otherwise.


Only you have the capability of fueling your anger on one of the biggest and best news to ever happen to competitive nosgoth tale.
Would you be here **** if all that happened was that NA got runestone prices for 2nd and 3rd etc? Obviously not, it's always about you crying like a baby because someone else got something and you didn't. But yeah, like you said in your post, I'm not surprised by it anymore.

Not to "fangirl over Talespin and Matt" as Mr. Silent likes to put it, but Talespin is a competitive player who likes seeing competition, he wants it to be fair for everyone. I can agree with him that NA is getting a bit shafted in terms of prizes. It's obvious to anyone who looks. But I agree, I'm not surprised anymore, either. It's a bit disheartening.

Can't you see our frustration as NA players? I'm glad EU is doing great, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't make the whole situation right. But if the situation was reversed, would you not be saying the exact same thing, asking the exact same questions? I know I would be.

Da_Wolv
3rd Apr 2015, 15:53
tbh, I cannot blame SE/ESL to take it a bit slower in NA.
No matter who killed the NA competitive scene, it's on life support.
BUT at this point, handing out real cash rewards for 2nd and 3rd place, at least for the first few weeks, would basically be a "sign up to get cash" ordeal.

I do not believe SE has given up on the NA competitive scene for Nosgoth, but I can understand them holding back real money prices for the best 3 teams if they are effectively only 2 or so.

--Ram--
3rd Apr 2015, 16:16
tbh, I cannot blame SE/ESL to take it a bit slower in NA.
No matter who killed the NA competitive scene, it's on life support.
BUT at this point, handing out real cash rewards for 2nd and 3rd place, at least for the first few weeks, would basically be a "sign up to get cash" ordeal.


The difference really isn't all that much as far as I can tell. There seem to be 3-4 somewhat competitive teams playing the EU cups with each final likely being between Dead Sun and Iron Fist. I would hardly call that a flourishing scene. To me it seems that those two teams will get #1 and #2 if they compete. Basically what happens in US with At and Weekend Warriors is it not?

Da_Wolv
3rd Apr 2015, 16:33
The difference really isn't all that much as far as I can tell. There seem to be 3-4 somewhat competitive teams playing the EU cups with each final likely being between Dead Sun and Iron Fist. I would hardly call that a flourishing scene. To me it seems that those two teams will get #1 and #2 if they compete. Basically what happens in US with At and Weekend Warriors is it not?

Yes. but unlike NA, there are 2 more older Teams (Metatrone and us) as well as newer Teams already signed up or setting up to join soon (Imperials, Phane, and spin-off teams of existing teams) - not counting the lower-tier teams that "try" for a week and then are never seen again...

And this is what I was initially saying: Why is Talespin so upset? If anyone should be pissed at this new regulation it should be Ragnaros and the other FWW guys.

--Ram--
3rd Apr 2015, 16:46
And this is what I was initially saying: Why is Talespin so upset? If anyone should be pissed at this new regulation it should be Ragnaros and the other FWW guys.

Definitely FWW should be most annoyed, totally agreed.

However I don't think it's fair to accuse Tailspin of being annoyed when he should be happy, because that implies that all Talespin/At wants is to get some money. It seems that what he actually wants is to encourage more good teams to form and play so that they have more competition because they want to have fun competing. Having 2nd and 3rd place incentives will certainly help bring that, and will create a situation where the constant losses to the powerhouse At won't be as bitter since they may be quite happy to get 2nd or 3rd.

Aggggh
3rd Apr 2015, 17:06
This is par for the course as far as NA scenes on ESL goes. SE should have tried setting up NA competitive with an Organization that doesn't consistently shaft NA. ESL will always do that since they're an EU organization.

SilentVirtue
5th Apr 2015, 12:44
ill be streaming the matches at twitch.tv/deadsungaming!

Da_Wolv
5th Apr 2015, 19:08
Best Cup ever!
great turnout - thx to everyone that played and congratulations to Iron Fist!
http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/major/beta-cup-series-eu/cup-1/rankings/

--Ram--
5th Apr 2015, 19:51
Aus team Rain:
http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/open/nosgoth-open-4on4-tdm-ladder/team/8876049/

EU team RAIN
http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/major/beta-cup-series-eu/cup-1/team/9014954/

Kden, guess one Rain team wasn't enough.

injiau
6th Apr 2015, 04:57
Actually LOL'd @ this ram, was thinking since when did we have an EU division hahahaha

Interesting times.

Equanimityjohn
6th Apr 2015, 07:18
The Nosgoth Ope Beta Series will be here until the end of the July. We will run one cup each week, where you can earn points to qualify for the monthly final. On every Sunday the top teams will receive points, Rune Stones and the winning team will receive additional $200.

The monthly final will take place at the end of each month. The next monthly final will be in the 1st week of May. Each final will consist of eight teams who gathered the most points during the weekly cups of the past month and will compete for a total prize money of $500.

So this is tad bit misleading, and so is the display of the "weekly point distribution" on the ESL website. It would seem that it is being said that you will be giving weekly prizes of runestones, and an addition 200$ for first place. Though, is this actually the case? Or is it that these prizes are actually monthly? Are the prizes actually given out weekly if they are weekly?

Da_Wolv
6th Apr 2015, 08:25
So this is tad bit misleading, and so is the display of the "weekly point distribution" on the ESL website. It would seem that it is being said that you will be giving weekly prizes of runestones, and an addition 200$ for first place. Though, is this actually the case? Or is it that these prizes are actually monthly? Are the prizes actually given out weekly if they are weekly?
Nope. Its weekly AND monthly:

http://play.eslgaming.com/nosgoth/global/nosgoth/major/beta-cup-series-eu/cup-1/
Scroll down to the "Prizes"
Place Go4 Points EUR
1. 100 €300 + 4x Rune Stones worth €25
2. 75 €200 + 4x Rune Stones worth €20
3. 60 €100 + 4x Rune Stones worth €15
4. 40 4x Rune Stones worth €15
5.-8. 25 4x Rune Stones worth €10

This is ONLY FOR THIS WEEK
and will be repeated next Sunday.
The 8 teams with the most points at the end of the month will be automatically signed up for a "Monthly Final Cup" with a grand prize of 500€

Equanimityjohn
6th Apr 2015, 09:38
Nope. Its weekly AND monthly...
The 8 teams with the most points at the end of the month will be automatically signed up for a "Monthly Final Cup" with a grand prize of 500€

This is what I believed, though that makes me wonder when are the prizes distributed. I have a friend who placed 3rd US and did not receive their runestones yet.

Da_Wolv
6th Apr 2015, 12:26
This is what I believed, though that makes me wonder when are the prizes distributed. I have a friend who placed 3rd US and did not receive their runestones yet.

Well, seeing that today is a holiday.. I don't reckon we will get the prizes before Tuesday 6pm GMT.

RazielWarmonic
7th Apr 2015, 15:40
So this is tad bit misleading, and so is the display of the "weekly point distribution" on the ESL website. It would seem that it is being said that you will be giving weekly prizes of runestones, and an addition 200$ for first place. Though, is this actually the case? Or is it that these prizes are actually monthly? Are the prizes actually given out weekly if they are weekly?

Hi Equanimityjohn,

We give out prizes for the Sunday cups that are separate from the monthly cups. However, we generally do prize distribution once a month. Please allow us up to a 1 month - 1 1/2 months to distribute.

Cheers,
Warmonic

Da_Wolv
7th Apr 2015, 16:14
Hi Equanimityjohn,
We give out prizes for the Sunday cups that are separate from the monthly cups. However, we generally do prize distribution once a month. Please allow us up to a 1 month - 1 1/2 months to distribute.

I think the problem was him believing that there is acutally a prize to be won each week, not when or how it will be distributed.

But while you're here :D
Is the Runestone distribution also taking that long, or can SE do it with a swift script?

kLauE187
9th Apr 2015, 13:41
got my runestones today. expected around 7.5k got 6k. but its fine i dont wanna complain ;)

Saikocat
10th Apr 2015, 10:44
The Runestone prizes will be shown with their amounts in future, instead of the way it's currently done, as it isn't clear at the moment. For this week the amounts have been adjusted again (today) though. They'll be awarded quicker in future too, after this first time :)

Da_Wolv
10th Apr 2015, 14:13
The Runestone prizes will be shown with their amounts in future, instead of the way it's currently done, as it isn't clear at the moment. For this week the amounts have been adjusted again (today) though. They'll be awarded quicker in future too, after this first time :)

Yey!