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View Full Version : Nosgoth State of Play: March 2015



DunhamSmash
26th Mar 2015, 20:52
Hello everyone,

We just posted this on the blog (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/nosgoth-state-of-play-march-2015) -- but, as always, we wanted to post it here on the forums for easy reference as well. Enjoy!

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Good news! Our Nosgoth "State of Play" address is a little early this month as we prepare our official developer stream for tomorrow (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/nosgoth-crucible-dev-stream-on-march-27) and a really big content update next week!

But before we get started, here's a quick recap of the four weeks that have passed since our last sneak preview (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/nosgoth-state-of-play-february-2015). In early February, we introduced the new Daily Rewards program (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/introducing-free-daily-rewards) to thank players for waging war every single day, and then followed it up with multiple Legacy of Kain*-themed Player Banners (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/new-legacy-of-kain-player-banners) just one week later. One of our most exciting additions, of course, was the quick (and successful) alpha test our upcoming "Capture the Body" game mode (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/capture-the-body-alpha-tests-this-weekend) -- which is essentially Nosgoth's version of the classic CTF gametype, while our special Double XP event last week (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/solar-eclipse-double-xp-event) celebrated the very-real solar eclipse that captivated more than half the world on March 20.

But now it's time to look ahead, and that's exactly what we're going to do. Here's what we have on tap...


NOW and Ongoing - Fair Fight Anti-Cheat
Starting earlier this month, we began rolling out the very high-profile anti-cheat system known as Fair Fight from GameBlocks (https://gameblocks.com/).

We're hopeful that by the time we've finished implementation by this time next month, that the world of Nosgoth will be a safer, fairer place for everyone. Some misbehaving players have already experienced the wrath of Fair Fight over the least several weeks, so take comfort in knowing that the system works and will continue to improve as we move forward.


Week of March 30 - The Crucible Map
The highly-anticipated Turelim stomping ground known as "The Crucible" is heading to Nosgoth next week and we're really excited about it.

So excited, in fact, that we'll be going in-depth with "The Crucible" on our Twitch developer stream tomorrow, March 27, at 11:30am PDT/ 6:30pm GMT (http://www.twitch.tv/nosgoth). In the meantime, don't forget to check out the latest Crucible preview video embedded below.

Oh, and eagle-eyed viewers may notice in the preview that we've made some visual changes to a very specific set of trees that didn't go over so well with the community when showed screenshots last month. Thanks to all of you for keeping us on our toes on this one, and we hope that you like the changes we've made for the final version!


MsRjaXM878M


Week of March 30 - Inferno Event
As part of next week's Crucible release celebration, we're also hosting a brand new "Inferno" special event. For two weeks only, you'll find a pair of unique Inferno event banners for sale in the Store along with rare "Molten" Exotic items that add sweet visual and sound effects to Human Weapons and Vampire Special Abilities. The Molten items can be purchased in-Store or found as rare drops, so feel free to go after them however you see fit (they look absolutely bad-ass too, and should accentuate your Nosgoth inventory collection quite nicely)!


Week of March 30 - Deceiver Evolved Skin
We've been talking this one up for quite a long time, and we're happy to report that it finally be yours next week as part of our big content push. Original Crystal Dynamics Lead Character Artist and Art Director, Daniel Cabuco, played a major role in the creation of this new skin and we think the collaboration has produced one hell of a great looking alt. Check out this new screenshot for proof -- it's awesome!


http://www.nosgoth.com/system/rich/rich_files/rich_files/000/000/425/blog_large/screenshot-2015-03-24-18-32-56-10.jpg?1427400546


Week of March 30 - Penalties for Drop-outs
There are plenty of well-known sayings about quitters out there, so think of your favorite one now and know that we're about to do something about 'em!

Starting with next week's update, we will begin phase one of a new ongoing system that penalize players that drop out of games. Initial punishments include a short, time-based ban from matchmaking with additional improvements and scaling options further down the line.


April - Capture the Body Returns
That's right. Your new favorite mode is coming back next month for more testing. If you missed the gametype the first time, or just want to help us refine it a bit more, then be sure to drop by and play while you can. Tell your friends, it's going to be a blast!


April - New Banners and Drop Rate Boosters
There's an outside shot that this feature will make it into next week's patch, but the safer bet for now is to mention it for April. Either way, once these are out, you'll have a lot more personalization options than before and options are good, right?


May - Prestige Skins
High-level Human alts are quickly becoming a holy grail for Nosgoth players and we've narrowed the release field down to "sometime in May." To start, we'll have Hunter, Alchemist, and Scout skins ready to go simultaneously, though it's definitely possible that one of these could get bumped up a little earlier if we're lucky. As always, we'll let you know as soon as we can.

Oh, and as a special treat, we'll be giving a first look at both the Scout and Alchemist Prestige skins on tomorrow's stream! (http://www.twitch.tv/nosgoth)


Spring - Item Crafting/ Trading
Most of backend work on this system has been finished now, and we're about to move into the implantation and UI phase of development. Once complete, the Item Crafting and Trading system should give players more of what you've been asking for -- more sinks, more options, more sociability, and more imaginative ways to experience Nosgoth!


Spring/ Summer - League Rankings
Square Enix Montreal is working hard on implementing these into Nosgoth later this year. Think of this as a tease of what's to come, though, and check back with us again in the next "State of Play" for more info.


TBD - More on the Way
In addition to the items listed above, we also have a number of other features in the pipeline. Talent Trees, Daily Challenges, Taunts (the Human equivalent of Executions), and plenty of other goodies are on the planning board. We don't have anything more specific than that for the moment, but stay tuned to future "State of Play" blogs for the latest updates.

----------------------

And that'll do it -- another installment of the Nosgoth State of Play has come to an end. What did you think of this month's edition? Do you have specific questions about our schedule? Want to make additional suggestions? Then let us know right here, right now -- who knows, you might make it into our next publication!

Until next time, we are Psyonix, and we thank you very much.

Vampmaster
26th Mar 2015, 22:05
Loving that Evolved Deceiver! Any word on the Evolved Summoner? I thought that had been scheduled for release at roughly the same time.

Ysanoire
26th Mar 2015, 23:04
I love these. I am so looking forward to all of that.

The only thing I have mixed feelings about is the leaver penalty. I know people have been complaining about it for ages, but I really don't think such a thing should be implemented before an option to surrender and a ranked playlist. I think it can potentially make some matches even ****tier. But, eh, we'll see.

FireWorks_
26th Mar 2015, 23:16
You missed the disclaimer that it doesnt include balance changes and bug fixes from the last time.

Even with that in mind Id like to know a little bit about your priorities on going over the existing content. Now with all the new content of 2 classes and a map pushed out in the last weeks, will there be a bigger focus on "polishing" or fixing what we have? What balance passes are you doing currently, what will be reworked, what categories are high, mid and low on your bug fixing list.

Very specifically, when will we get a truly useful Noscam that is not only a video editing tool, but a replay tool for actual gameplay. Which shows player HUDs, player inputs (true first person), which shows health, ammo and cooldowns of players, which allows for "wallhack" view to see players through walls (grid view).

And third, will we get more comprehensive patch notes? They seem to lack information each time.

GenFeelGood
26th Mar 2015, 23:29
Talent Trees, any details on what to expect with that?

gaster
27th Mar 2015, 02:33
Just a reminder to keep the queue times on your mind. They're excessively long right now.

I'm actually excited for the upcoming stuff. Nice job.

Khalith
27th Mar 2015, 02:42
Damn, I'll be at work so I'll miss the livestream tomorrow. I'll have to catch it in the twitch archives later in the day before I can give my feedback on the stuff.

BR0sephStalin
27th Mar 2015, 03:05
Thank god for leaver penalties! I might actually start playing again once they are implemented. Hoping the leagues help the game too.

DunhamSmash
27th Mar 2015, 07:04
Loving that Evolved Deceiver! Any word on the Evolved Summoner? I thought that had been scheduled for release at roughly the same time.

It was. We should be able to talk about it on the stream tomorrow. If we forget to bring it up on our own, just give us a nudge/ reminder during the broadcast. :)

JinTzu
27th Mar 2015, 10:05
Disconnecting from a match counts as a "leaver" as well?

Saikocat
27th Mar 2015, 11:28
@FireWorks_
The patch notes for the upcoming update are pretty hefty, there's a lot included other than what's listed above, including balancing changes and bug fixes.


Talent Trees, any details on what to expect with that?

No details on that yet, I'm afraid. We'll take about that more in the future, but for now we just wanted to give everyone a heads up that it's something we're working on.



I love these. I am so looking forward to all of that.

The only thing I have mixed feelings about is the leaver penalty. I know people have been complaining about it for ages, but I really don't think such a thing should be implemented before an option to surrender and a ranked playlist. I think it can potentially make some matches even ****tier. But, eh, we'll see.

It's the first phase of this new option for now, so we'll be monitoring it closely to see how much it helps. More detail will be in the patch notes, unless Corey talks about it more specifically in today's stream later.


Damn, I'll be at work so I'll miss the livestream tomorrow. I'll have to catch it in the twitch archives later in the day before I can give my feedback on the stuff.

It'll be in the past broadcasts on Twitch, and we'll make sure it goes onto Youtube as well after that :)

Sasha_Vykos
27th Mar 2015, 12:26
There are many things here.. good news!

I have a question about penalty: is this short ban time applied if you join a completely one sided game and immediately leave it? In my opinion there should be an amount of time in which you can leave(lets say 10 seconds after you joined), because nobody likes to join a match with a score of 2-20 for example.

RainaAudron
27th Mar 2015, 13:45
I have a question about penalty: is this short ban time applied if you join a completely one sided game and immediately leave it? In my opinion there should be an amount of time in which you can leave(lets say 10 seconds after you joined), because nobody likes to join a match with a score of 2-20 for example.

Good question, give us the option to search for new lobbies or ongoing games as well.

lucinvampire
27th Mar 2015, 14:54
The coming changes sound great :D


Disconnecting from a match counts as a "leaver" as well?

I hope not, that happens to me quite a lot and I'd be gutted if I was punished for the game crashing/DCing.

HoopleDoople
27th Mar 2015, 16:01
Please please PLEASE take great care with implementation of the leaver penalties. Some players are admittedly out of control, leaving less than a minute into the game or any time their team falls behind. But team balance is frequently so atrocious that players have to choose between 15+ additional minutes of extreme frustration or leaving and trying a new match.

I recommend the following:

1) A surrender vote MUST be implemented before leaver penalties.

When the teams are blatantly unbalanced and/or the match has been decided long before it ends, the losing team should gain the ability to vote to surrender. There should also be a surrender option when one team is stuck with fewer players for too long. Gold rewards and item drop rate would scale based on the duration of the match to equalize rewards per time spent.

2) The game must be intelligent enough to distinguish between crashes/DCs and quitting

3) There should be a grace period to leave hot joins or a way to opt out of hot joins.

If a match was so bad that someone was willing to suffer a leaver penalty to get out of it odds are no one will be able to have anything remotely approaching fun. Don't force us to suffer this against our will.

4) MMR, particularly for groups, needs to be further improved

Match balance is better than it was pre-MMR but far from perfect. Groups in particular seem to be handled very poorly. Premade teams of talented players are still untouchable while grouping with friends of mixed skill level stacks the deck against you.

5) Give players a "freebie" leave every so often

Even the players most dedicated to toughing out bad matches will run into situations where they feel compelled to leave a match. Maybe the enemy team is hacking, maybe their allies are griefing, or maybe the game has glitched so as to be unplayable. For example, back in beta there used to be sound glitches that were permanent and deafening - I would immediately leave any match where this occurred to save my hearing. More recently I've encountered certain graphic glitches that are equally unplayable.

Thus I would propose every player have one freebie leave to use. This freebie would replenish after 48 hours of real time or 3 hours of time in game (only time spent in matches, lobbies, or searching would count for this).

Vampmaster
27th Mar 2015, 16:06
There should be a quota for how often you can quit before being punished. With a cool-down or something.

--Ram--
27th Mar 2015, 17:11
+1 for Hoople's comments on leaver penalties.

BR0sephStalin
27th Mar 2015, 23:33
TBH I don't care if u crashed or if u left. If you crashed and get back in then there should be no penalty. Other than that, penalize them. If your internet is shoddy or you are crashing frequently it is still ruining it for other players.

Vampmaster
27th Mar 2015, 23:44
TBH I don't care if u crashed or if u left. If you crashed and get back in then there should be no penalty. Other than that, penalize them. If your internet is shoddy or you are crashing frequently it is still ruining it for other players.

In that case, it might as well check your ping before putting you into a match in the first place and disallow joining if it's too low.

HoopleDoople
27th Mar 2015, 23:51
TBH I don't care if u crashed or if u left. If you crashed and get back in then there should be no penalty. Other than that, penalize them. If your internet is shoddy or you are crashing frequently it is still ruining it for other players.

I've got fantastic ping in US East or West and a very nice computer. But crashes and game-breaking glitches still occur every now and again. The problems are with Nosgoth itself unfortunately. I will note that these crashes/glitches are much rarer than they used to be.

Da_Wolv
28th Mar 2015, 13:38
1) A surrender vote MUST be implemented before leaver penalties.
[...]
2) The game must be intelligent enough to distinguish between crashes/DCs and quitting
3) There should be a grace period to leave hot joins or a way to opt out of hot joins.
[...]
4) MMR, particularly for groups, needs to be further improved
[...]
5) Give players a "freebie" leave every so often
[...]
Thus I would propose every player have one freebie leave to use. This freebie would replenish after 48 hours of real time or 3 hours of time in game (only time spent in matches, lobbies, or searching would count for this).

All of this sounds reasonable and/or needed!
I would like to add this:

REMOVE STATISTICS (Shocked silence)

Here's where I'm coming from:
While it is nice to see your play time, kills/deaths and so forth, they are ultimately meaningless.
Win ratio in particular is something some people get hung up about. Removing it will solve a great deal of this!
I have seen tons of people leave even tightly lost matches right at the end just before it would "count" as a loss.
All of this BS can go, for all I care!

I don`t need to marvel at my own brilliance or aim for better stats. You will know how well you do when you play. In fact, sometimes it might even be counterproductive to try and better your stats in a specific situation when the team would need you to distract the enemy and sacrifice yourself or more.

Even when we don`t talk about the win/loss ration statistic, some people really care about their KDR, which will also not be furthered when you have to stay in a bad match.

Ysanoire
28th Mar 2015, 14:17
There should also be a surrender option when one team is stuck with fewer players for too long.

If a match was so bad that someone was willing to suffer a leaver penalty to get out of it odds are no one will be able to have anything remotely approaching fun. Don't force us to suffer this against our will.



They addressed this particular part in the stream - apparently you're not gonna get panalized if your match is already 1 person short.

I agree with your suggestions too, especially the surrender button. Matches may be full and still terribly imbalanced and irritating (hackers, griefers and general failed matchmaking).

And I know it was mentioned they are thinking about it, so I do still hope that positive incentives for staying are introduced rather than/next to penalties.


All of this sounds reasonable and/or needed!
I would like to add this:

REMOVE STATISTICS (Shocked silence)


I agree with this too. At least in regard to the win ratio. The other stats I suppose can be used to track your progress so I guess people would want to have them, but win ratio is pretty useless.

Mayhzon
28th Mar 2015, 14:57
Very impressive, you continue to show that you do value our feedback. I'm giddy about all of these upcoming changes, especially the quitter penalty. This will improve the game a lot.




1) A surrender vote MUST be implemented before leaver penalties.

When the teams are blatantly unbalanced and/or the match has been decided long before it ends, the losing team should gain the ability to vote to surrender. There should also be a surrender option when one team is stuck with fewer players for too long. Gold rewards and item drop rate would scale based on the duration of the match to equalize rewards per time spent.

2) The game must be intelligent enough to distinguish between crashes/DCs and quitting

3) There should be a grace period to leave hot joins or a way to opt out of hot joins.

If a match was so bad that someone was willing to suffer a leaver penalty to get out of it odds are no one will be able to have anything remotely approaching fun. Don't force us to suffer this against our will.

4) MMR, particularly for groups, needs to be further improved

Match balance is better than it was pre-MMR but far from perfect. Groups in particular seem to be handled very poorly. Premade teams of talented players are still untouchable while grouping with friends of mixed skill level stacks the deck against you.

5) Give players a "freebie" leave every so often

Even the players most dedicated to toughing out bad matches will run into situations where they feel compelled to leave a match. Maybe the enemy team is hacking, maybe their allies are griefing, or maybe the game has glitched so as to be unplayable. For example, back in beta there used to be sound glitches that were permanent and deafening - I would immediately leave any match where this occurred to save my hearing. More recently I've encountered certain graphic glitches that are equally unplayable.

Thus I would propose every player have one freebie leave to use. This freebie would replenish after 48 hours of real time or 3 hours of time in game (only time spent in matches, lobbies, or searching would count for this).
Please do *not* implement any of these things, aside from point 2. Catering to the "gg, match is lost, let's give up" mentality will harm this game tremendously. Implementing a voting system for giving up will lead to people spamming that over and over, like in League of Legends. It will be annoying and we will see the chat full of "gg" and "pls vote yes" and that kinda crap. So far this game has fared well by *not* featuring votekick or votegiveup. Keep it that way. People need to learn to PLAY the game they want to play, not give up 2 minutes in because the first team fight was not in their favor or because suddenly the enemy team has a comeback. We want a fair game and a game in which loss is as accepted as victory, as it should be.

Also, please do *not* grant a grace period for leaving a game after joining. People press the "Search game" button, they have to commit to the game it finds for them. No more excuses and no more rationalizing bad behaviour. No more "but it totally gave me an unfair match". Go hardcore on the penalty system.


What I am in favor for is the option to rejoin a game after being disconnected and not punishing people who do reconnect to the game they got disconnected from. People shouldn't get punished for the interwebs borking it up. That's the only compromise that should be made, if any.

HoopleDoople
28th Mar 2015, 18:07
Please do *not* implement any of these things, aside from point 2. Catering to the "gg, match is lost, let's give up" mentality will harm this game tremendously. Implementing a voting system for giving up will lead to people spamming that over and over, like in League of Legends. It will be annoying and we will see the chat full of "gg" and "pls vote yes" and that kinda crap. So far this game has fared well by *not* featuring votekick or votegiveup. Keep it that way. People need to learn to PLAY the game they want to play, not give up 2 minutes in because the first team fight was not in their favor or because suddenly the enemy team has a comeback. We want a fair game and a game in which loss is as accepted as victory, as it should be.


There is no reason that taking a softer stance on leaving has to cater to a "let's give up" mentality. I wasn't as explicit in this thread, but I've mentioned before that any vote surrender option must be locked until certain thresholds are met. These thresholds would be something like:

One team has less players for more than a minute or two
If after 5 minutes the other team is leading by 12+ points AND by a 2:1 margin
If there are more than 5 minutes left in the match AND one team has secured a guaranteed victory


An alternate suggestion I have made is to have a surrender vote NOT end the match. Instead, the losing team would be given a flexible max health bonus. Deaths by the losing team would increase this bonus while kills by the losing team would decrease it. This would give an inferior team the handicap it needs to compete fairly and ensure everyone can have fun for the duration of the match. Obviously the team that surrendered would always be counted as having lost regardless of the final score.

I would also like to second the earlier suggestion in this thread that win % should be removed from the stats page. I personally don't care in the slightest if I win or lose, so long as the match is competitive. If my choice is winning in a steamroll or just barely losing I'd prefer a match where I barely lose every time.


Also, please do *not* grant a grace period for leaving a game after joining. People press the "Search game" button, they have to commit to the game it finds for them. No more excuses and no more rationalizing bad behaviour. No more "but it totally gave me an unfair match". Go hardcore on the penalty system.

I definitely understand why we need hot joins but we have to acknowledge that in the overwhelming majority of cases a hot join results in far less fun than a fresh match. In my experience solo players and high MMR players have to suffer a higher rate of hot joins (groups usually won't fit while throwing in a high MMR players is the quickest way to restore MMR balance to the match). This is why I am opposed to using a "stick" approach to hot joins of punishing anyone who opts out. I would much rather a "carrot" approach be implemented. For example, there could be a gold bonus for toughing it out to the end. A simple approach would be to guarantee 75 gold for anyone who hot joins a match, win or lose - this would prevent players who lucked into a great team from being given an unnecessary reward.


What I am in favor for is the option to rejoin a game after being disconnected and not punishing people who do reconnect to the game they got disconnected from. People shouldn't get punished for the interwebs borking it up. That's the only compromise that should be made, if any.

If the game is smart enough to tell the difference between leaving vs crashing/DCing, I like this idea. Now and again my friend gets dropped from my match only for his slot to be instantly filled. This forces me to choose from leaving the match, making my friend wait for the match to finish, or no longer playing with my friend until we have matches end at roughly the same time. However, holding a spot open for someone who left and doesn't want to come back won't do anyone any good.

PencileyePirate
28th Mar 2015, 19:49
Some thoughts about the leaver penalty:


UI needs a reconnect button

Penalty needs a 3 minute delay during which player can reconnect to old match (but not queue for others.)

Searching needs the ability to opt out from ongoing games, because most will quit those regardless of a penalty.

Da_Wolv
28th Mar 2015, 20:34
I am opposed to using a "stick" approach to hot joins of punishing anyone who opts out. I would much rather a "carrot" approach be implemented. For example, there could be a gold bonus for toughing it out to the end. A simple approach would be to guarantee 75 gold for anyone who hot joins a match, win or lose - this would prevent players who lucked into a great team from being given an unnecessary reward.


While I like this idea, for long-time players this is kinda pointless. I have 50k Gold on my account and nothing left to spend it on - and I am poor compared to some of my high-level peers!

Sooner or later, people will amass enough gold to unlock everything permanently and then what?
Same goes for XP

EDIT:
Even worse, your idea is a little self-defeating:
Give players a boost for being nice -> more gold income -> faster unlocking -> earlier reaching of the end-game state w/ everything unlocked -> Gold boosts become useless -> people don't care if they leave or don`t.

HoopleDoople
28th Mar 2015, 20:55
While I like this idea, for long-time players this is kinda pointless. I have 50k Gold on my account and nothing left to spend it on - and I am poor compared to some of my high-level peers!

Sooner or later, people will amass enough gold to unlock everything permanently and then what?
Same goes for XP

EDIT:
Even worse, your idea is a little self-defeating:
Give players a boost for being nice -> more gold income -> faster unlocking -> earlier reaching of the end-game state w/ everything unlocked -> Gold boosts become useless -> people don't care if they leave or don`t.

The problem here is the lack of an adequate gold sink for longtime players. A good start would be the ability to randomly reroll mysterious items for a large amount of gold. This should probably only be available to level 50 players. I'd love to hear more ideas on this topic but this probably isn't the proper place for it.

Ysanoire
29th Mar 2015, 01:36
Catering to the "gg, match is lost, let's give up" mentality will harm this game tremendously. Implementing a voting system for giving up will lead to people spamming that over and over, like in League of Legends. It will be annoying and we will see the chat full of "gg" and "pls vote yes" and that kinda crap. So far this game has fared well by *not* featuring votekick or votegiveup. Keep it that way. People need to learn to PLAY the game they want to play, not give up 2 minutes in because the first team fight was not in their favor or because suddenly the enemy team has a comeback. We want a fair game and a game in which loss is as accepted as victory, as it should be.


Let's not lump votekick with surrender, these are different things. I don't see why surrendering should be bad if all 4 people in a team agree. I see absolutely no merit in forcefully educating players to be more patient and persevering.


While I like this idea, for long-time players this is kinda pointless. I have 50k Gold on my account and nothing left to spend it on - and I am poor compared to some of my high-level peers!

There could be other bonuses - I'm thinking about increased drop chances.

j4m41k4n0
29th Mar 2015, 13:51
Penalties for Drop-outs? Is a JOKE?

Fix the matchmaking first.
Fix the occasional lag-sound-bug
Forbid ESL PRO teams practice tactics in PUBLIC MODE, they have private mode for it.
Launch the final game, not BETA.

Then, if u want, include the penalties.

This game have not a lot of players to do that, i think.

U can see here: http://steamcharts.com/app/200110

ArrX92
29th Mar 2015, 14:00
Penalties for Drop-outs? Is a JOKE?
Fix the matchmaking first.
This game have not a lot of players to do that, i think.


Totally agree.
Currently the matchmaking of this game is horrible.
On many occasions in the game stay in a 2 persons and in many cases by disconnection or failure of the game.
Do they have to be there looking as earn them easily or as time passes?


PD: Before thinking about making these prohibitions, earn more players , fix the matchmaking and many more things, otherwise you are going to run out of players at this rate.

Ygdrasel
29th Mar 2015, 21:15
Penalties for Drop-outs? Is a JOKE?

Fix the matchmaking first.
Fix the occasional lag-sound-bug
Forbid ESL PRO teams practice tactics in PUBLIC MODE, they have private mode for it.
Launch the final game, not BETA.

Then, if u want, include the penalties.

This game have not a lot of players to do that, i think.

U can see here: http://steamcharts.com/app/200110

Pretty sure penalizing the ones who screw up matches will benefit player retention...

Saikocat
30th Mar 2015, 11:24
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It is the first phase of this new feature (leaver penalty), so we'll be monitoring the effect it has, as well as all the feedback we get.

cmstache
30th Mar 2015, 14:50
But team balance is frequently so atrocious that players have to choose between 15+ additional minutes of extreme frustration or leaving and trying a new match.



This is one of the many problems with so many gamers now. Getting stomped? Deal with it and learn something. It's never a complete waste of time unless you make it so. You WILL NOT win every game, and in a team based game like this you're lucky to win more than 60%. Half of those loses probably will be a stomp from one side or the other due to game play style, but it is still possible to rally and shut people down once the team coordinates right.

That being said, those who stay and fight out every match will ALWAYS be better than those who don't.


EDIT: As for matchmaking. It's an issue in every game, sometimes more than others. Ultimately, it falls on the community for causing issues at the moment, not the developers. Every time a player leaves a game, goes AFK, plays a new class/ set-up they aren't familiar with, etc it ends up effecting the match. The matchmaking system doesn't know if you will quit. You can't carry games well in Nosgoth, and it's always been that way. Carrying a 4v4 is easy, carrying a 3v4 is almost impossible for either side against even semi-close teams. Because of how matchmaking works at it's core 3 better players get penalized and beaten by 4 worse players because of a leaver and it messes up their MMR score. Factor events like that into every game and it's impossible to match people by skill because no one's ranking is actually accurate in the first place. The only way to have a decently accurate score is to play with your team, and god forbid you get paired against a non-team in a team-based game because it's the team's fault, not the people who aren't in the team who voluntarily take what they can get for teammates.

In short, the community is the issue here, not the system. Until people actually use all the systems in place to help them succeed then it will always be "broken."

Whoopdidoohah
30th Mar 2015, 16:12
This is one of the many problems with so many gamers now. Getting stomped? Deal with it and learn something. It's never a complete waste of time unless you make it so. You WILL NOT win every game, and in a team based game like this you're lucky to win more than 60%. Half of those loses probably will be a stomp from one side or the other due to game play style, but it is still possible to rally and shut people down once the team coordinates right.

That being said, those who stay and fight out every match will ALWAYS be better than those who don't.


EDIT: As for matchmaking. It's an issue in every game, sometimes more than others. Ultimately, it falls on the community for causing issues at the moment, not the developers. Every time a player leaves a game, goes AFK, plays a new class/ set-up they aren't familiar with, etc it ends up effecting the match. The matchmaking system doesn't know if you will quit. You can't carry games well in Nosgoth, and it's always been that way. Carrying a 4v4 is easy, carrying a 3v4 is almost impossible for either side against even semi-close teams. Because of how matchmaking works at it's core 3 better players get penalized and beaten by 4 worse players because of a leaver and it messes up their MMR score. Factor events like that into every game and it's impossible to match people by skill because no one's ranking is actually accurate in the first place. The only way to have a decently accurate score is to play with your team, and god forbid you get paired against a non-team in a team-based game because it's the team's fault, not the people who aren't in the team who voluntarily take what they can get for teammates.

In short, the community is the issue here, not the system. Until people actually use all the systems in place to help them succeed then it will always be "broken."

I oh so agree with what you're saying.

People need to man up and stay in lost causes, they might learn something, learn a counter to the other team's strat or composition, learn how to play better. People put way too much emphasis on their win % and KDR, IMO, they should just remove those stats altogether, they don't serve any purposes whatsoever, other than showboating (and it's not even a legit % or KDR anyways since it's manipulated with leaving lost causes). Individual stats =/ team game.

Honestly, I've rarely stumbled upon such a carebear community, being hackused and Q dodged like I and my friends are (and we're not even ESL participants, yet). In other games I played the people formed teams and tried to get better in this one ? People don't care about forming up teams and just leave games when they lose. Heck, even some teams leave games (Y'know when the game empties in the blink of an eye).

HoopleDoople
30th Mar 2015, 19:44
This is one of the many problems with so many gamers now. Getting stomped? Deal with it and learn something. It's never a complete waste of time unless you make it so. You WILL NOT win every game, and in a team based game like this you're lucky to win more than 60%. Half of those loses probably will be a stomp from one side or the other due to game play style, but it is still possible to rally and shut people down once the team coordinates right.

That being said, those who stay and fight out every match will ALWAYS be better than those who don't.

There are a few points I'd like to address here:

1) Getting stomped is not how players learn

Obviously if every match you play is an easy win you'll never really make significant improvements because success can be achieved with inferior play. But it is equally true that if every match you lose horribly you will also fail to make improvements, because it is entirely impossible to succeed regardless of how well you play.

The optimal way to teach players is to provide them with balanced matches and a well tuned MMR system. Fair play will provide them with both the negative feedback (from losing) to discourage poor play and the positive feedback (from winning) to encourage skillful play. MMR will then ensure that the competition escalates with the player, pushing them to constantly learn more and up their game.

2) Asking players to spend too much time in stomps is how you destroy a player base

To me, participating in a stomp is not a very enjoyable experience. It is boring if my team is winning and frustrating if my team is losing. This isn't to say I am unwilling to tough my way through a stomp, only that I'm have a limit to what I'm willing to tolerate. Everyone has a finite amount of free time and if a game doesn't provide sufficient enjoyment per time spent they are likely to spend their time elsewhere. Near the end of open beta I had to stop playing until MMR came out as literally every match was a stomp. I like Nosgoth enough to put up with any current issues, but I'd love it if matchmaking was further improved.

3) Good design game minimizes the amount players have to suffer through stomps

Game design is constantly evolving and many competitive multiplayer games have come up with solutions that minimize time spent in stomp matches. The most common and perhaps simplest solution is to have the match length tied to the team balance. This is typically done through objective modes of gameplay with no fixed time length; it usually takes quite a while for someone to win when teams are balanced, but when teams are unbalanced the superior team wins quickly. In the event that a match ends too quickly (or some other metric identifies a team imbalance), teams are automatically scrambled for the next match.

This doesn't translate perfectly to deathmatch but can still be done. Currently rounds only end after 10 min or a team reaches 30 minutes. Having a match automatically end once a team has a 20 point lead or a guaranteed victory would make stomps significantly less painful. With the time it takes to find a match I'd probably never be willing to leave a match if I knew that within 10 minutes the match would end unless my team turned it around.

4) We expect so much from Nosgoth because it has great potential

I and many other regular forum members spend a lot of time criticizing the game. But please understand we only do so because we want to see Nosgoth live up to its potential. I've played plenty of terrible games and I never bother to complain on the forums - what would be the point? We could admittedly be more positive at times but the developers need honest feedback to make improvements. We can't blindly defend something that isn't working or it won't get changed.

And what has long been the biggest issue is poor matchmaking. Leaver penalties are certainly a way to help with this, but it must be done very carefully. I would again like to emphasize harsh leaver penalties before match balance is adequate is a rather backwards approach. Focusing on giving players matches they don't want to leave is far more important.

cmstache
30th Mar 2015, 20:18
In reply:

There are a few points I'd like to address here:

1) Getting stomped is not how players learn

Not every game will be balanced. It's impossible. Sure, you'll learn more from balanced games than you will will when you're getting stomped. But, you're getting stomped for a reason. Ask them why it's happening, chances are they'll tell you. What is the enemy team doing that we can't stop? Who are they focusing and why? These are all things you can learn in a match. Saying that you can't learn because you're getting beat is just taking the easy way out, like quitting.


2) Asking players to spend too much time in stomps is how you destroy a player base

Again, this happens in every game. And to your credit, yes, many players are wimps and don't like to earn wins. It takes actual WORK to be good at many games. Unfortunately nothing can be done about that. As long as people leave games when they are losing it will just perpetuate the problem. People complaining about them and leaving aggravates the symptom.

3) Good design game minimizes the amount players have to suffer through stomps

I have seen teams come back from 20 points behind. Is it common? No. But it happens. And chances are they come out of it a better player than when they went in. Something just "clicks" and things turn around. The saying "It's not over until the fat lady sings" rings true here. The other reason this isn't practical is because of the leveling system. You end up punishing players who are trying to level skills/weapons, classes, etc. This ultimately also perpetuates the matchmaking problem causing it to fail. Again, the community actions are the issue here, not the system. Blame can be placed on the development team by making people use items they don't like or aren't good with in order to level them up. But, they have to make money somewhere and no one forces players to actually use them. Personally, I wouldn't ever use a mysterious item if it wasn't similar to what I wanted anyways. So, I'd rule blame on them out in this scenario too.


4) We expect so much from Nosgoth because it has great potential

Matchmaking is an ongoing issue, and I doubt hey consider it "fixed." That's also a reason why complaining about matchmaking isn't a good excuse against the leaver penalty. The system WILL be abused without one. It doesn't matter how good matchmaking is. Making players stay in games is the ONLY way that fixing matchmaking can happen. If people don't understand that then they shouldn't be testing a game that's not released. If you DC because of your connection often, stop being greedy and forcing 3 people to automatically lose, those people are no different than habitual leavers. If you have an emergency, then a few minute long ban doesn't matter anyways as you won't be on to see it and it will be over when you get back anyways, if not, then it wasn't an emergency worth leaving for.

GenFeelGood
18th Apr 2015, 21:43
Wasn't sure where to ask this; but for the Prestige Vanguard skin, will the shield also be a separate item and capable of being equipped to the other Vanguard skins?

Orchal
27th Apr 2015, 21:22
April is almost over, where is the capture the body test? State of play said it will happen in april

Vampmaster
27th Apr 2015, 22:39
April is almost over, where is the capture the body test? State of play said it will happen in april

https://www.twitter.com/ZittoN_/status/592646575068938240

Saikocat
29th Apr 2015, 14:17
We'll announce the next test as soon as we can confirm when it's going ahead. It'll be soon!

The next State Of Play blog should be tomorrow (Thursday).