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Saikocat
4th Aug 2014, 15:45
User Interface
Interface Update
- The Frontend UI has been overhauled for a cleaner, more functional experience.
- Please report any severe bugs on the forum!
Store
- New, more space efficient display for better browsing
- Weapons and Skins can now be previewed in 3D by clicking on the "Eye" icon for eligible items
- Sales are now supported and will begin appearing soon!
Armory
- 3D preview is now the default view and will show your current loadout, including equipped weapons and skins.
- Rewards for Class Leveling now shown on Class Info page.

Party System Beta Test
New Party Server
- We are rolling out the first pass at our new Party system backend.
- This replaces the existing Party backend with a faster, more reliable system that should make partying up a much smoother experience.
- This is a public BETA of the system and THERE ARE BUGS! Please report issues you encounter on the forum, and see the known issues list below. We intend to rapidly hotfix major problems with this system.

Party Balancing
- In significantly unbalanced matches, player parties will now be split up amongst teams to achieve a better balance. This will only happen if the average rank of one team is at least 10 ranks higher than that of their opponents, and will typically only affect larger parties (3-4 people). You will be notified in lobby chat when this occurs.
- Parties will still be kept together in all other circumstances. You will not be split up against evenly matched opponents.

Matchmaking and Team Balancing
Team Deathmatch Level Requirement
- The primary "Team Deathmatch" Playlist now requires Rank 3 to queue up for. New players must play in "New Recruit" until they achieve that rank.

Matchmaking Tweaks
- While the full overhaul to Matchmaking is not ready yet, we have made a few small changes to place more emphasis on finding a match of players close to your Rank.
- Intermission time between matches has been reduced to 30 seconds from 60.

The Fane
Bug Fixes
- Fixed issue preventing some abilities and other actions like Execution from functioning correctly inside the center of the map
- Fixed miscellaneous collision issues
- Performance optimizations

Deceiver
Infect
- Reduced impact damage to 205 (was 225) and DoT damage to 200 (was 250)
Shroud
- Shroud is now more visible than before to enemies

Reaver
Sweeping Kick
- Damage increased to 400 (was 375)
- Now pushes enemies backwards while they stumble
- Cooldown reduced to 8 seconds (was 10)

Leap Attack
- Damage reduced to 200-350 (was 225-422)

Tyrant
Charge, Marathon
- Tyrant now has a latent telekinetic "shield" effect while charging to indicate that he will deflect incoming projectiles like Bolas while Charging.

Prophet
Eldritch Guard
- Cooldown increased to 20 seconds (was 15)
- Duration reduced to 8 seconds (was 10)
- Shield reduced to 325 (was 350)
- Fixed a bug causing the tooltip to show 0 Shield Amount

Known Issues
- Infrequently, the host of a party may not see the invited player in their party list in the UI.
- If two players quit an active game and form a party, the party host can matchmake successfully but the client may encounter difficulties.
- Closing Nosgoth via Windows (or alt-F4, etc.) while in a party may cause adverse effects. For now, as long as you quit via the in-game Exit prompts, you will correctly leave your party.

Rynnik
4th Aug 2014, 15:50
Awesome! Can't wait to test the new matchmaking!

Way to go!

Psyonix_Corey
4th Aug 2014, 15:53
Awesome! Can't wait to test the new matchmaking!

Way to go!

Just to clarify - this is NOT the new matchmaking system! The goal of this first release is to smooth out parties, and as we noted there were small tweaks that may improve matchmaking, but please don't expect the complete rewrite yet. It's not done!

Blackdeathteal
4th Aug 2014, 15:55
Shroud's a bit of a unnecessary nurf, from the last patch you could already see their health bar above them. I liked the fact Deceiver got a bit of a ramp up in dps broke those 3 -4 Reaver teams which was a nice change.

Rynnik
4th Aug 2014, 15:59
Just to clarify - this is NOT the new matchmaking system! The goal of this first release is to smooth out parties, and as we noted there were small tweaks that may improve matchmaking, but please don't expect the complete rewrite yet. It's not done!

Understood. That doesn't dampen my enthusiasm though. Breaking parties, no deathmatch until level 3, and whatever tweaks to getting matches closer to level should be great to work through the wringer while you keep working on the rest of the overhaul.

The party side of it was probably the greatest common complaint I have found from people I have brought to the game.

Pending testing this is a REALLY REALLY great step forward.


you can already see stealth /shrouds health bar above them.

Mr. Corey has the camo/shroud health bar bug been fixed or should we expect to work through it for a while longer yet?

CyBeR_Junky
4th Aug 2014, 16:00
I will test it tomorrow whitout any FOUNDER booster's working :-(

Psyonix_Corey
4th Aug 2014, 16:20
Mr. Corey has the camo/shroud health bar bug been fixed or should we expect to work through it for a while longer yet?

I believe this was fixed, will confirm.

Voxyld
4th Aug 2014, 16:25
The small change for the tyrant seems interresting, it follows well the lore. Can't wait to test the new matchmaking system.
ALL hail to sweeping kick pushing ennemies !

Doomsiren
4th Aug 2014, 16:26
I kind of fear for the Deceiver with this update though. While I think that the decrease in damage from the infect ability is just, I don't think that you should make shrouded deceivers more visible. Even before this update I got plenty of bola straight in face and people being able to hit me just fine.

I use shroud mainly as an escape, but I don't see that happening if the visibility while shrouded is increased to much.

serpen1
4th Aug 2014, 16:28
Thanks for this. The skin preview was something I've been wanting since I started playing. When is this maintenance going to end so I can try it out?

MasterZtark
4th Aug 2014, 16:29
Thanks Cat! I'm really looking forward to testing everything out!

AreZee
4th Aug 2014, 16:37
so how long does it usely take when there is a maintenance? When will I'm able to play again :D

MightyMarlo
4th Aug 2014, 16:44
Im used to play deceiver, and this nerf on "infect" is a good thing i think. I had real feeling it was doing too much damages.

pmaner
4th Aug 2014, 16:48
any chance game will go to a 3d game play?

LoXilin
4th Aug 2014, 16:49
So delighted about this update! I like the nerfs - adds more balancing to the classes

Rising-Mos
4th Aug 2014, 16:50
Maintenance message here too :( But I am excited about the update.

Any chance you know when the permanent items prices will drop?

"Intermission time between matches has been reduced to 30 seconds from 60": This one is awesome. Also, the time to view the scores is way too much.

Xenonetix
4th Aug 2014, 17:00
I love almost every change in this list - Excellent work!

Any chance you know when the permanent items prices will drop?
Permanent Perk Prices have already dropped from 3000 to 2400 Gold (2000 to 1600 Runestones) :)

peterh
4th Aug 2014, 17:09
so how long does it usely take when there is a maintenance? When will I'm able to play again :D

AreZee it can take up to 4 hours maintenance depending on the version deployment and the quick QA on the production servers.
Now that we have many gameservers it usually takes long. We continuously working on improving the deployment process

Saikocat
4th Aug 2014, 17:09
Hey folks
We'll be down for another 2 or 3 hours approximately while the update is applied and rolls out. I'll post once it's confirmed we're about to come back up. Thanks for your patience everyone! :)

PencileyePirate
4th Aug 2014, 17:27
Reduced damage on leap attack? Really?

I was super happy with the patch notes until I read this ... IMO it's ridiculously unnecessary, and makes me mad.

Also ... are improvements to Echolocation ever coming?


I kind of fear for the Deceiver with this update though. While I think that the decrease in damage from the infect ability is just, I don't think that you should make shrouded deceivers more visible. Even before this update I got plenty of bola straight in face and people being able to hit me just fine.

I agree. Shroud was plenty visible before, so I expect increased visibility will hurt it a lot.

RainaAudron
4th Aug 2014, 17:28
AreZee it can take up to 4 hours maintenance depending on the version deployment and the quick QA on the production servers.
Now that we have many gameservers it usually takes long. We continuously working on improving the deployment process

Are you a new admin? First time seeing you here :p :wave:

Thanks for info about the patch, Cat! Aww, 3 hours? Damn :(


Reduced damage on leap attack? Really?
I am not really sure about that change either, seems unecessary :(

Also, why would Shroud need to be more visible? I guess we have to see in-game how it looks.

Rest of the changes sound good though :) Really excited to try the new Sweeping kick, yeey! :D

peterh
4th Aug 2014, 17:45
I am an old admin :) but i usually just doing the stuff in the background and leave communication to Cat she is better than me

Psyonix_Eric
4th Aug 2014, 17:48
Also, why would Shroud need to be more visible? :(

This change came about because we found that it was all too easy to use Shroud and then stand close enough to humans that you filled their screen (as the Deceiver is very tall) yet the humans were unable to tell you were actually there. I've personally seen it happen a lot in my own matches online as well as watching streamers. You could see a Shrouded Deceiver running laps around humans while the humans fired off into the distance, unaware of what was hitting them.

As with every skill, we intend to reach a balance on risk versus reward. The Scout's camo skill allows him to go full invisible yet he's unable to attack. Shroud being as invisible as it was yet capable of doing widespread AoE went against the risk vs. reward idea. Like always, we'll continue to monitor it in case it becomes an issue in it's new implementation.

Don't knock it until you try it, though. ;)

SilentVirtue
4th Aug 2014, 17:57
1 problem, I want to que with my team mates, forcing us to split up is just stupid, all is going to happen is we are going to leave that game and re-party!

Its not my fault if people are not my level.

RainaAudron
4th Aug 2014, 17:58
Thanks for explaining Eric, yeah, best would be to try out and see! :)


The Scout's camo skill allows him to go full invisible yet he's unable to attack.
Are you supposed to see the place where he is as blurry? I´ve noticed that only Deceiver´s Disguise makes him fully invisible with no way to tell (apart from the footstep sounds).

Also can´t wait to see the new UI and the 3D preview mode for weapons/skins :)


I am an old admin :) but i usually just doing the stuff in the background and leave communication to Cat she is better than me

Oh, I see. Cool to see you posting :)

Saikocat
4th Aug 2014, 18:00
I am an old admin :) but i usually just doing the stuff in the background and leave communication to Cat she is better than me

Peter! <3

xerodox
4th Aug 2014, 18:01
When can I play again?
Keep saying it's in maintenance.

Psyonix_Corey
4th Aug 2014, 18:03
1 problem, I want to que with my team mates, forcing us to split up is just stupid, all is going to happen is we are going to leave that game and re-party!

Its not my fault if people are not my level.

Sorry buddy, it's a no-win situation, and your 4 man party getting split up is the lesser of evils right now.

Kebabz
4th Aug 2014, 18:07
Before:

Bola > Shroud.

Now:

Bola >>>>>> Shroud.

:D

AreZee
4th Aug 2014, 18:11
I'm not quite sure about that split up of parties though... They can easily feed to the opponent team for easy wins then if they are friends and work together. Don't like that solution at all

PencileyePirate
4th Aug 2014, 18:16
Are you supposed to see the place where he is as blurry? I've noticed that only Deceiver´s Disguise makes him fully invisible with no way to tell (apart from the footstep sounds).

Deceiver disguise also shows dust puffs on the ground where he's stepping, so you can see the footsteps.

I think the shimmer effect on Scout camo is intended, but I wonder about his arrow hanging visible in the air.

Vytaftas
4th Aug 2014, 18:19
- Shroud is now more visible than before to enemies
I hope it's not much more visible. People can easily see me now i can't even get close to them, they can see and hear me coming. Maybe shroud should be a 'distance' skill, the closer you are the more visible you get.

Redlegs87
4th Aug 2014, 18:21
I don't get reducing the Leap Attacks damage yet increasing the Sweeping Kick and reducing its cool down time. Most people use the leap attack at close range so only get the minimal damage amount. With this kick now paired with Undying Wisdom perk I can do 400 damage do a few swipes then shadow step out and come right back to do another 400 within 7 seconds.

Voxyld
4th Aug 2014, 18:38
I´ve noticed that only Deceiver´s Disguise makes him fully invisible with no way to tell (apart from the footstep sounds).

False, actually in some maps you can also see ( you must pay attention and have good eyes) some effects due to his footsteps.
I am thinking about when the deceiver (invisible) jump from a roof to a puddle of water and you can see the effect on his fall + hear the footsteps. Maybe i'm spouting nonsense but i think it is the case.


Most people use the leap attack at close range so only get the minimal damage amount.
False. I play enough games to know that is false. most high players can snipe you ( i mean they do it from maximal range) with leap attack and they do it, believe me.

RainaAudron
4th Aug 2014, 18:45
Yeah, I know about the slight dust/puddle effects when he walks, in the heat of the battle it can be easily overlooked though.

TendrilSavant
4th Aug 2014, 19:07
Some changes are interesting, but I'm happy with most of the changes.

I'm thrilled that the 3D preview that's been suggested so many times has been implemented. But how does this affect people who purchased before this patch?

Is it possible to refund runes to players that bought Skins before this update? I know certain players were disappointed with certain Skin purchases. Not necessarily because of quality, but because the back of the Skin might not be to their liking.

FireWorks_
4th Aug 2014, 19:07
Matchmaking and Team Balancing
Team Deathmatch Level Requirement
- The primary "Team Deathmatch" Playlist now requires Rank 3 to queue up for. New players must play in "New Recruit" until they achieve that rank.

Corey, you said it yourself a few weeks ago (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=14112&page=2&p=106475#post106475), that you are worried about the people possibly not finding matches could be turned off.
In all the discussion on the forums asking for a mandatory newbie mode people talked about level caps of at least 5 or higher. Some said 10, Id personally go with even 15 . For the reason of having enough player available to both pools. The goal is to satisfy both parties.

What has changed that you now go for a possible player pool of only 3 ranks?

From my experience, last time this morning with 4 players under lv10 (http://www11.pic-upload.de/04.08.14/mtfiwqnwj19k.jpg), many players just ignore the new recruit option. If that holds true, the option for new players to gain a match at rank 3 is extremely low. Are the metrics really that different?

I really appreciate the sentiment but this sounds like it can backfire hard. Hope Im wrong though :)

Whats the median playtime for people to reach lv3 and 10?

PencileyePirate
4th Aug 2014, 19:29
False. I play enough games to know that is false. most high players can snipe you ( i mean they do it from maximal range) with leap attack and they do it, believe me.

Are you thinking of pounce attacks? Pounces w/ incapacitate are often used from long range, but I notice the leap attack is commonly used in melee battles due to immediate activation time. For this reason I don't really mind the reduction to minimum damage so much as the reduction to max damage (i.e. I think a reduction of -25 on the low end is reasonable but -72 on the high end seems excessive.)

ModernD
4th Aug 2014, 19:40
I hope it's not much more visible. People can easily see me now i can't even get close to them, they can see and hear me coming. Maybe shroud should be a 'distance' skill, the closer you are the more visible you get.

I second this motion.

Thenatoorat
4th Aug 2014, 19:41
When can I play again?
Keep saying it's in maintenance.

Soon :worship:

Xenonetix
4th Aug 2014, 19:59
What has changed that you now go for a possible player pool of only 3 ranks?

From my experience, last time this morning with 4 players under lv10 (http://www11.pic-upload.de/04.08.14/mtfiwqnwj19k.jpg), many players just ignore the new recruit option.

Plenty of people use the New Recruit option, and if what you say is true, that means all those people who were previously ignoring the New Recruit option no longer will be. If what you say is false, then the New Recruit lobbies will continue to thrive, and new players may not be discouraged from playing the game by getting completely slaughtered in their first ever match on Team Deathmatch. :)

Win-win ;)

Saikocat
4th Aug 2014, 20:12
Hi all,

Sorry about the wait, we are working on it at the moment and as soon as we're back up, I'll make another post here. Right now we're still going to be in maintenance mode.

NomzNomz
4th Aug 2014, 20:14
When will the game be back up guys? :poke:

FireWorks_
4th Aug 2014, 20:20
Plenty of people use the New Recruit option, and if what you say is true, that means all those people who were previously ignoring the New Recruit option no longer will be. If what you say is false, then the New Recruit lobbies will continue to thrive, and new players may not be discouraged from playing the game by getting completely slaughtered in their first ever match on Team Deathmatch. :)

Win-win ;)

Xeno, I m thinking of none-primetime situations where the answer to "why dont you play recruit mode" is "noone is there" (even if obv there would if they would queue for it).

There is no issue (besides "protecting" the higher levels) when there are enough players. The tricky part comes when there are less players around.



if what you say is true, that means all those people who were previously ignoring the New Recruit option no longer will be

Not sure where you jumped to that conlusion. Rethink it a bit...
The people from 4-10 would still be in the Deathmatch. The 1-3 would be left alone in the smaller pool.

Loss - Loss.

Thenatoorat
4th Aug 2014, 20:21
Hi all,

Sorry about the wait, we are working on it at the moment and as soon as we're back up, I'll make another post here. Right now we're still going to be in maintenance mode.

:worship:

Saikocat
4th Aug 2014, 20:24
Hey everyone

We're coming back online now. Please note that the party matchmaking servers aren't going to be available right away, but that we're going to be rolling these out. In the meantime, you will be able to play again.

Demiurgic
4th Aug 2014, 20:25
:scratch: :poke:

Estimated time?

PencileyePirate
4th Aug 2014, 20:30
In the meantime, you will be able to play again.

It's still popping up a message about being under maintenance and auto-closing.

NomzNomz
4th Aug 2014, 20:34
After reading this page I've learnt people can see where I'm treading and hear me as Deceiver disguise. That explains that scout today who threw his bola at me easily. Gosh I feel like a fool now xD

MasterShuriko
4th Aug 2014, 20:37
It's still popping up a message about being under maintenance and auto-closing.

still having the same issues.

Voxyld
4th Aug 2014, 20:38
After reading this page I've learnt people can see where I'm treading and hear me as Deceiver disguise. That explains that scout today who threw his bola at me easily. Gosh I feel like a fool now xD

If a scout threw a bola at you, there is something going on here

I also had the pop up about maintenance and auto-closing

AreZee
4th Aug 2014, 20:41
yep, still the mainenance message popping up... :(

serpen1
4th Aug 2014, 20:42
So how long does it usually take for the servers to boot up anyways?

FireWorks_
4th Aug 2014, 20:47
So how long does it usually take for the servers to boot up anyways?

Usually 2-3 hours but they are doing a backend change as written in the patchnotes. This is a process that commonly (on any IT system) takes longer and has a lot of potential for even longer follow ups due to bugs not visible until rolled out.

Patience.

There are currently enough people sweating there and working hard. Or on a break after working hard the last half day and going back in any minute :)

Thenatoorat
4th Aug 2014, 20:52
They are UP and running :worship:

NomzNomz
4th Aug 2014, 20:58
If a scout threw a bola at you, there is something going on here

I also had the pop up about maintenance and auto-closing

oops wrong class :scratch:

Syluxxx
4th Aug 2014, 21:36
when the party system is online ?

FireWorks_
4th Aug 2014, 21:37
Things Ive noticed

Sentinel flight tutorial! Nice! Would love to access it without the other 2!

Shop: Item duration, now in a way better place but the writing seems smaller less clear. If I wouldnt know to specifically look for items with duration it, I wouldnt notice it :/

Sentinel has a new grab circle: Charging as known and discharging while grab can be performed. Nice mechanic, though I felt it disturbing at first. Im sure Ill get used to it. Good its there.
Sentinel flight has Motion blur(?) no matter the settings. Very discomforting. Didnt see what I wanted most of the time. Aim before the attack and pray. Didnt like it all. If the target of that change is to make it harder, it works :/

Burning seemed to have a new effect on the side, not sure how new it really is. Maybe didnt notice before but id like to turn it off... Like the Blood on being hit before.

The whole GUI looks a lot brighter. Hurts the dark theme of the game in my opinion.


Bugs: Cant rename the Loadouts.
Loadouts reset each time the game starts. Even the names are now defaulted... My names from the last start are now gone and it said now only Hunter1 and Hunter0. The game launch before i had my custom names.

Mave84
4th Aug 2014, 21:51
Yeah nah not gonne lie, nerf to Shroud was unnecessary. Keep in mind i only PUG, always. But Shroud was already sort of ****, but had its use when you already had some distance to the enemy and just wanted it to make it a bit harder for them to hit you while you flee. But as many already stated, even than they threw you bolas at your head 70% of the time. Now it is even more horrible and what is the alternative? Illusions, great. Tried to use it for a few matches and the AI is just retarded dumb. Even if i use them right next to humans they climb the next wall or run in some retarded direction etc. etc.. I mean i get it, you don't want to give Deceiver two Stealth. But that is just plain frustrating.

SiD_Green
4th Aug 2014, 22:24
Yeah nah not gonne lie, nerf to Shroud was unnecessary. Keep in mind i only PUG, always. But Shroud was already sort of ****, but had its use when you already had some distance to the enemy and just wanted it to make it a bit harder for them to hit you while you flee

Well there's the problem, Shroud when used up close made you pretty hard to keep track of sometimes. I was almost always able to dodge any bolas thrown at me in that context.

PencileyePirate
4th Aug 2014, 22:53
What's with undocumented motion blur everywhere that completely ignores graphics settings? Sentinel is clearly the worst, but it's on other classes as well.

Psyonix_Eric
4th Aug 2014, 22:55
We're looking into the motion blur issue and will hopefully have a fix for it soon.

Doomsiren
4th Aug 2014, 22:58
This change came about because we found that it was all too easy to use Shroud and then stand close enough to humans that you filled their screen (as the Deceiver is very tall) yet the humans were unable to tell you were actually there. I've personally seen it happen a lot in my own matches online as well as watching streamers. You could see a Shrouded Deceiver running laps around humans while the humans fired off into the distance, unaware of what was hitting them.

As with every skill, we intend to reach a balance on risk versus reward. The Scout's camo skill allows him to go full invisible yet he's unable to attack. Shroud being as invisible as it was yet capable of doing widespread AoE went against the risk vs. reward idea. Like always, we'll continue to monitor it in case it becomes an issue in it's new implementation.

Don't knock it until you try it, though. ;)

Although I haven't been able to use shroud that effectively and I have never experienced the situation you described but I can see where the nerf has come from now. But after playing with shroud after the patch, I have to say this ability's value seems none to me.

You are practically visible to everyone and the 200 damage over time is just not worth it. It has also lost it's ability to cover a deceiver's escape.

Good job on the UI though. It's very slick.

NiamaraWeee
4th Aug 2014, 23:10
Got to test it just now with a few classes... uhh... loadouts seem bugged again... randomizes my abilites everytime... skins reset, too.

Motion blur stuff on Sentinel is kinda... really annoying... xD' doesn't help with picking someone up at all and makes me feel dizzy... haha (I usually like a little motion blur and I thought it was just the right amount before)

And yeah, shroud... I thought it was kinda easy to spot before the update, but you could get away with it sometimes... now you can easily see it... it seems... useless atm. xD

LorenCole
4th Aug 2014, 23:45
Well, nice the UI, more wide and clear, I like how the Shop has been reskinned. The inventory is still caotic for me, but the 3D models are a cool feature that I hope when you will implement crafting and customization will give some "character" to our avatars.

But, guys, you made Shroud useless.

RainaAudron
5th Aug 2014, 00:03
Okay, so the new 3D view is really cool!

Fane in Siege? Hell yeah! Had lots of fun with that :)

I must say I really like the new TK effect on Charge/Marathon, it is awesome :)

Infect is fine with the new nerf, it was needed, so good.

New UI is nice, though I´d prefer if it could have a black or darker colour scheme rather than grey. Also the letters are too small and hard to read still (at least at 1366x768) and icons are maybe a little bit too big now.

Not a fan of the sentinel´s blurry vision when flying :/ It is a bit dizzying...

The screen overlay effect when you are on fire seems a bit strong and distracting (to me at least) - maybe make it more transparent?

Shroud is now difficult to use for escaping since you are so much more visible, not too happy with that :/

Loadouts don´t save still.

Haven´t tried Leap attack but not sure it needed the nerf :(

Overal, a good update and looking forward to the parties being enabled again.

PencileyePirate
5th Aug 2014, 00:06
We're looking into the motion blur issue and will hopefully have a fix for it soon.

I've noticed there's also been blur added to humans during events like Tyrant ground slam or falling damage, etc. It's not too excessive, but it's frustrating that we can't disable this in graphics settings.

Also, I noticed skin preview has been removed from the armory; what's the point of a 3D view if we can't preview skins?

Voxyld
5th Aug 2014, 00:13
New UI is nice, though I´d prefer if it could have a black or darker colour scheme rather than grey. Also the letters are too small and hard to read still (at least at 1366x768) and icons are maybe a little bit too big now.

Not a fan of the sentinel´s blurry vision when flying :/ It is a bit dizzying...

Well i think too that the new UI is too bright, the "dark" theme was better.
Blurry as a sentinel or effects when burned are annoying.
New infect is good. New sweeping kick is good, liked the slight push, people cannot say this push is op ^^
But well well well, what do we have here ? When we start the game, before searching a match, we can see a teasing for the two next classes. If you tease us this much, we are gonna expect it "soon" ^^" (loved the post someone put about the definition of "soon" for Blizzard)

Psyonix_Eric
5th Aug 2014, 00:34
Also, I noticed skin preview has been removed from the armory; what's the point of a 3D view if we can't preview skins?

Can you take a screenshot of this? The Armory absolutely has a 3d previewer; I can see it from my own Steam client and I saw it on multiple streams I visited today. If yours is not working then there's a bug going on that we haven't seen yet.

Varulven
5th Aug 2014, 00:42
Can you take a screenshot of this? The Armory absolutely has a 3d previewer; I can see it from my own Steam client and I saw it on multiple streams I visited today. If yours is not working then there's a bug going on that we haven't seen yet.

I guess he talks about previewing the skins BEFORE buying them.
For now you only can see your current skin in 3d (and I find it kinda funny how the reaver is the only one who doesn't do anything in the preview xDD)

Psyonix_Eric
5th Aug 2014, 00:47
I guess he talks about previewing the skins BEFORE buying them.
For now you only can see your current skin in 3d (and I find it kinda funny how the reaver is the only one who doesn't do anything in the preview xDD)
You can preview skins before you buy them as well. This is already in on the live server. If you hold your mouse over any skin there's an "eye" icon (the one Cat mentions in the patch notes) that let's you preview them the same way you can in the Armory.

Varulven
5th Aug 2014, 00:53
You can preview skins before you buy them as well. This is already in on the live server. If you hold your mouse over any skin there's an "eye" icon (the one Cat mentions in the patch notes) that let's you preview them the same way you can in the Armory.

Huh? O_o
I guess I overlooked it.
I'll take a look at it tomorrow, thanks :3

Zieche
5th Aug 2014, 01:01
You can preview skins before you buy them as well. This is already in on the live server. If you hold your mouse over any skin there's an "eye" icon (the one Cat mentions in the patch notes) that let's you preview them the same way you can in the Armory.

Speaking of Skins. Are the cloth fabrics suppose to be made of skin? :scratch:
Noticed this mostly on the Alchemist and Tyrant's
http://i.imgur.com/ORcc4ag.jpg

Vytaftas
5th Aug 2014, 02:13
Welp, shroud is completely useless now.
I suggest removing it or changing it back to what it was. You can clearly see shrouded deceiver, also if you are a deceiver you'd be better off using something else or not using any skill, because you can't attack while the skill is active.
No one will ever use it.

PencileyePirate
5th Aug 2014, 02:32
You can preview skins before you buy them as well. This is already in on the live server. If you hold your mouse over any skin there's an "eye" icon (the one Cat mentions in the patch notes) that let's you preview them the same way you can in the Armory.

Thanks ... this is what I was missing. : )


Welp, shroud is completely useless now.
I suggest removing it or changing it back to what it was. You can clearly see shrouded deceiver, also if you are a deceiver you'd be better off using something else or not using any skill, because you can't attack while the skill is active.
No one will ever use it.

I agree the invisibility is pretty much pointless now. I think the AOE damage could still be useful while visible, but only if they adjust it so melee breaks out of the skill (similar to Scout camo.)

Moribden
5th Aug 2014, 02:43
Speaking of Skins. Are the cloth fabrics suppose to be made of skin? :scratch:
Noticed this mostly on the Alchemist and Tyrant's
http://i.imgur.com/ORcc4ag.jpg

It's a bug. When you preview a skin textures from a previous skin carry over for some reason. I had most fun with deciever, lol.

Razaiim
5th Aug 2014, 04:47
I must say that I am not overly fond of this patch.

The colours on the new UI are not appealing, and the game is significantly brighter than it used to be, which I offset with further reducing Gamma. I would prefer the old UI with the new configuration personally. Also I liked the old weapon/skill boxes in the old UI better. I will admit I like the new rings and colors added to the skills, especially dominate mind. The game, including gameplay overall appears to look much better, but again is much brighter. The motion blur on sentinels is waywayway too much, and uncalled for.

Playing sentinel is dizzying and headache inducing, not to mention much harder, coupled with not being switched off.

With the exception of sweep kick I disagree with the changes made. I personally felt that the Deceiver was in a good spot with the current iteration of his skills, barring backstab's detection issues. I have also now seen backstab doing 600 damage, (seen multiple times in separate matches). The shroud visibility makes it look too much like the new illusions (I like the new illusions btw, is nice). I do like that the deceiver's yellow flicker while in shroud is finally gone (I was never sure what that was for anyways). I also do not see why leap attack needed a nerf, as it too seemed to be in a good spot.

serpen1
5th Aug 2014, 05:08
Is anyone currently working on fixing the loadout roulette going on right now? It was a bit wonk pre-patch, but now it seems to be completely broken.

BR0sephStalin
5th Aug 2014, 05:09
I must say that I am not overly fond of this patch.

The colours on the new UI are not appealing, and the game is significantly brighter than it used to be, which I offset with further reducing Gamma. I would prefer the old UI with the new configuration personally. Also I liked the old weapon/skill boxes in the old UI better. I will admit I like the new rings and colors added to the skills, especially dominate mind. The game, including gameplay overall appears to look much better, but again is much brighter. The motion blur on sentinels is waywayway too much, and uncalled for.

Playing sentinel is dizzying and headache inducing, not to mention much harder, coupled with not being switched off.

With the exception of sweep kick I disagree with the changes made. I personally felt that the Deceiver was in a good spot with the current iteration of his skills, barring backstab's detection issues. I have also now seen backstab doing 600 damage, (seen multiple times in separate matches). The shroud visibility makes it look too much like the new illusions (I like the new illusions btw, is nice). I do like that the deceiver's yellow flicker while in shroud is finally gone (I was never sure what that was for anyways). I also do not see why leap attack needed a nerf, as it too seemed to be in a good spot.

THIS x 100.

Leap attack most certainly did not need a nerf. People will just savage pounce more now and instantly e after the hit. I think the damage reduction makes it too low to warrant using even with its great mobility.

The deceiver shroud visibility change makes literally no sense to me. What is the point of shroud if it doesn't reduce your visibility a bit? The dps it puts out isn't enough to make it better than autoing and it decreases mobility. The ONLY good thing about it before was the visibility reduction. Now it is pointless.

I understand the party system was fixed, but then you made it so it can also separate parties. You basically fixed the one thing that was broken with it and then broke it intentionally. Makes no sense. I understand it is a bandaid, but i hope it gets changed quickly.

Prime_Abstergo
5th Aug 2014, 06:20
Speaking of Skins. Are the cloth fabrics suppose to be made of skin? :scratch:
Noticed this mostly on the Alchemist and Tyrant's
http://i.imgur.com/ORcc4ag.jpgYep thats odd but you can fix it via pushing "the eye" button again. Then it will back to normal texture.

Next on the patch:
(UI)
- MotD now subtle! YAY! Thank you!
- New UI design is now much "cleaner" and become aesthetically better. Dont mind the grey layout.
- Font has become actually readable and smooth. Nosgoth title could be moved few millimeters down as it is collide with Party icons little bit.
- Inventory is OK but still why won't you make it similarly to Profile tab? Make a list of class names to the left and also leave sort filters above. Make ability frames a bit smaller but do not change a size of tooltips.

(Abilities)
- Kick. Check! GJ
- Shroud. What? I thought even if this ability would have needed something it should be some kind of buff to invisibility. Not the nerf. Maybe you could at least increase running speed while in Shroud?
- Eldrish shield. Really? Never thought it was an OP ability... =(
- Leap is now balanced with Kick(considering CDs, damage and mobility possibilities) I think its OK now.

(Bugs)
- 3D cloth textures glitches.
- Skins and loadouts reset.


I understand the party system was fixed, but then you made it so it can also separate parties. You basically fixed the one thing that was broken with it and then broke it intentionally. Makes no sense. I understand it is a bandaid, but i hope it gets changed quickly. Yeeeeaaa... and playing 4x40 against 20 lvls is so much sense in it. Remember that is not a final solution but it is a way to go at least for now.

PS. HEY and I saw new human class model! Is it Michelangelo or Donatello? xD

demolust
5th Aug 2014, 07:14
Sorry buddy, it's a no-win situation, and your 4 man party getting split up is the lesser of evils right now.

I'm not sure how differently the splitting is working after the patch, but this is a really bad way to do things. I try to get my friends into this game, and a lot of them just stop playing because we constantly get split up in matchmaking. One of my friends won't even play 'until matchmaking is fixed'. That, in turn, makes me less likely to play. I'd rather wait 5 times as long for a match than be split up. These guys just want to play a game with a friend, and all too often that's not possible in this game.

Voxyld
5th Aug 2014, 09:58
I must say that I am not overly fond of this patch.

The colours on the new UI are not appealing, and the game is significantly brighter than it used to be, which I offset with further reducing Gamma. I would prefer the old UI with the new configuration personally. Also I liked the old weapon/skill boxes in the old UI better. I will admit I like the new rings and colors added to the skills, especially dominate mind. The game, including gameplay overall appears to look much better, but again is much brighter. The motion blur on sentinels is waywayway too much, and uncalled for.
I agree 1000000 times



Playing sentinel is dizzying and headache inducing, not to mention much harder, coupled with not being switched off.

I personally felt that the Deceiver was in a good spot with the current iteration of his skills, barring backstab's detection issues.

Yeah for the sentinel you are right. But for the deceiver, i think even you know infect needed a nerf. That much was obvious.
For me, shroud did not need any nerf though, so i do not understand why this was done.
I love the new sweeping kick, but i'm not sure about leap attack, because if sweeping kick is boosted the balance between the two skills should be restored by this alone, no ? I did not play leap attack much, so i do not know if it was that op, but i'm curious.

Yeah, that and the inventory which is not saving properly on some classes, again ! And i noticed when you want to equip a perk you cannot know if the perk you are selectionning is a daily perk or not (except if i missed something ?) that is annoying =s
Shroud seems nearly useless now, because the damage it does do not come with a risk/reward that makes player want to use it.
You do damages 20 per 20 with it and you must be close to humans to do so.
Come on, everyone knows if you do that in actual game you are killed in no time. that is simply useless. The only situation i do something with the damages from shroud is when a lone human is wounded, nearly dead, and fighting with a teammate i go for the assistance, or to finish the human off. Shroud was always used as a mean to escape, and now it cannot even do that properly. :(

Prime_Abstergo
5th Aug 2014, 12:12
Psyonix is encouraging Deceivers to play very selfish e.g. imagine the situation when your [vamp] teammate fights against 2-3 mid HP humans. Then you're going in shrouded damaging all three and then melee'ing your way to double-triple after your teammate dies and all attention comes to you. Honestly I can't endorse such behaviour :thud:

Now about Eldritch Guard... While I see the point in making [CD] bigger then [Duration] for 'offensive' skills like 'Mark target' this just don't work with Eldritch Guard. Its a defensive skill which means you're playing support role in your team. I hardly can call this ability supporting if you can't maintain it 100% uptime. So my suggestion is to make equal CD and Dur - 5/5 or 10/10 I don't really care. Actually as a support I'd appreciate smaller number thus making an ability more powerfull and consequently I will concentrate on SUPPORTING my teammates instead of headshotting vamps because this will turn to be more profitable for a whole team.

You've made a great ability called Sacrifice now please make a great one called Eldritch Guard. Thank you =)
(hope you have read this)

Whoopdidoohah
5th Aug 2014, 13:00
Let's say I'm a bit surprised of the Deceiver being the target of nerfs, it's definitely not the best Vampire right now and other than being able to close distance relatively easily VS good humans, it's now in a worse spot after the opener out of disguise, and Dominate mind still dosen't fit with any of the other skills available.

Shroud wasn,t mainly used to damage, it was used to escape mostly, and was only used to finish off low HP humans. Now it's completely useless, as you're almost as visible as if you were not using any skills, in fact, Illusions will now be used permanently, at least it distracts the humans from their main target, now shroud still deals pitiful damage but is so obvious I wouldn't call it 'invisibility' on the tooltip.

While I understand why you wanted to balance it with Camouflage, a Scout and a Deceiver have hardly the same roles on their respective teams. Camo serves Scouts well in getting a position to better snipe the Vampires, Shroud served mainly to get out of melee range out of ennemy sight while still doing bits of damage. And when Shroud was used to deal AoE damage, Deceiver would die instantly to the plethora of AoEs humans use, and most humans were able to see the Deceiver anyways, with the HP bar up their head and blackish aura and sound. Now, you'd be better off using Ilusions, go in and finish off low HP target with melee hits instead of using shroud and taking more time to finish off humans. Let's say I'm pissed of I permanently unlocked yet another useless skill, one that was useful pre-patch. It's on 'echolocation' degree of uselessness right now.

IMO, buff the damage by 100% then we might want to use it to deal AoE damage, or put it back where it was and we will use it defensively. Now Illusions is just better.

Infect, well, let's says it's in a good spot now after nerf. Still does a lot of damage to clumped up humans, but now more balanced with Backstab and feels a bit more balanced compared to other AoEs ticking around, like Choking haze. It serves it's purpose, making the humans spread out.

For Leap attack, I thought it was overused at high level, in combination with Shadow step or Evasion, and it made Reavers the top Vampires by a fair margin. Now with the nerf this playstyle will still be good but Reavers wont be able to pounce on your from distance, instead they will have to close in to dish their sweeping kick, wich is better risk vs reward IMO. Since Psyonix seems reluctant to play with Evasion / Shadow step and Reavers ability to get out of trouble, playing with damage #s can only do good for everyone.

As for the UI and the rest of the update, keep up the good work. Loadouts are messed up, partys weren't available, matchmaking is still horrid (first game I played after patch had 3 x 40s on same team and a bunch of 10-20s on the other XD, I asked how it happened and they were randomly put together). I am lvl 37 and was matched with lvl 20 or less multiple times during the evening. Seems to me nothing really changed matchmaking wise, but I know more is coming. As far as bugs goes, I know this is going to be ironed out, so yeah I'm happy to see regular patching and can deal with the bugs and stuff, why I said keep it up folks.

Gerloc
5th Aug 2014, 13:43
Great patch! Like most part of it except the shroud nerf, which was pretty unnecessary in my opinion.

Saw the features "coming soon" and i couldn't stop to think a human character with sword and shield is good in lore, it would upset the balance of the game, as well as the whole melee vs ranged system.
I can't say much about the vampire(ss?), but it looks great.

Well, new content is always appreciated so all i have to say is bring it on, and keep up the good work.

Prime_Abstergo
5th Aug 2014, 13:52
Saw the features "coming soon" and i couldn't stop to think a human character with sword and shield is good in lore, it would upset the balance of the game, as well as the whole melee vs ranged system.
I can't say much about the vampire(ss?), but it looks great. He's not holding a sword. My bet on another grenade launcher or simply a grenade.
And vampiress is good, yes. At least she's not fat :whistle:

Doomsiren
5th Aug 2014, 15:25
He's not holding a sword. My bet on another grenade launcher or simply a grenade.
And vampiress is good, yes. At least she's not fat :whistle:

Looked more like a short scythe attached to a chain to me.

As for getting into games. I have tried for 30 minutes and I have only been able too play one game total with my friends. It refuses to connect to the party server if I try create one.

RazielWarmonic
5th Aug 2014, 17:04
UI - It's looking good, I love the 3D viewer as that is something I've wanted to see for a while. The inventory management could use some work though so I hope that gets improved on in the future (As I sure it will with crafting). Honestly one thing I REALLY want to see is class leaderboards. But that's just me. :X

Deciever - Infect nerf was needed, as it was doing the same (or more if it spread) damage then a correctly placed backstab. It was ridiculous, so I agree wholeheartedly with this change and think it sits in a better place now. Shroud visualized I am honestly really iffy about after playing with it, I used Shroud as an escape mechanic as I didn't see it doing enough damage to stay around humans most of the time (unless they were all completely distracted and not a single one was shooting at me) so I in all honesty didn't think this needed to change (although it looks pretty.)

Reaver - Sweeping kick OP once again, go figure. 8 seconds is WAY too short, it either needs a damage nerf or cooldown of about 12 seconds. Leap attack did NOT need a damage nerf, most players use it as a mobility tool and not a damage tool, and when they do leap attack it's generally from close range. Especially with the kick buffs coming in, Leap Attack is getting some hate this patch.

Tyrant - Telekinetic shield, it's a small visual thing, I really don't have an opinion on it.

Prophet - Eldritch guard needed this nerf, my biggest qualm was the duration, so hopefully the 8 seconds will feel better. I feel like this ability should be more of an "oh crap" then "spam on my teammates forever and laugh", and by upping it's cooldown and reducing its duration I think it sits at a better place.

Vampmaster
5th Aug 2014, 17:16
Looked more like a short scythe attached to a chain to me.

As for getting into games. I have tried for 30 minutes and I have only been able too play one game total with my friends. It refuses to connect to the party server if I try create one.

A kusarigama?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama

OK, that wouldn't be so bad. It's not melee exactly, even if it can be used that way in specific circumstances. I just didn't want to see a double standard where humans can do ranged AND melee, but vampires can only do melee.

Psyonix_Eric
5th Aug 2014, 18:17
Update on the state of some of the hotly debated topics from this patch:

- Shroud has had the effect toned back some to make him more transparent, but it will not be as near-invisible as before. This is intentional and is our risk vs. reward balance that I mentioned here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=15290&p=112164#post112164), but we made him too opaque in this last patch.

- The Sentinel motion blur effect has been dialed way back and now properly hooks into the motion blur options settings.

FireWorks_
5th Aug 2014, 18:46
When will the party system work again? aka "you are currently not connected to the party server"

MasterFurbz
5th Aug 2014, 19:13
Update on the state of some of the hotly debated topics from this patch:

- Shroud has had the effect toned back some to make him more transparent, but it will not be as near-invisible as before. This is intentional and is our risk vs. reward balance that I mentioned here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=15290&p=112164#post112164), but we made him too opaque in this last patch.

- The Sentinel motion blur effect has been dialed way back and now properly hooks into the motion blur options settings. Sounds good. I appreciate that you guys are experimenting with shroud's visibility. Previously it seemed to compete a little too well with disguise in regards to it's utility. Im also glad that the sentinel blur is getting hooked to general motion blur.

RainaAudron
5th Aug 2014, 19:17
Thanks a lot for taking our feedback into consideration, Eric! Glad to hear it will be adjusted :)

TendrilSavant
5th Aug 2014, 19:21
Infects main strength isn't it's damage potential but it's quick animations (although its damage is at a much better place). There's very little risk in slapping someones face out of a Disguise. It needs a small charge up like all other close range vampire abilities e.g. Backstab, Puncture and Schockwave. Another alternative is to lower Infect's DoT affect, but apply an accuracy or recoil de-buff to the infected.

As for Leap, it's strength is it's versatility. And it's versatility has always been noticeable, and the ability of choice, when humans accuracy/recoil were a bit too good. Humans aren't as strong as they were in Alpha or Early Beta but the weapon balancing from 2 month ago made them more consistent and easier to use in my opinion. That and Deadeye perk is overpowered. Leap isn't too strong, but it is the choice ability against humans current state (not sure the damage nerf will effect it too much though).

PencileyePirate
5th Aug 2014, 21:35
A kusarigama?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusarigama

This would be absolutely awesome to see in-game.

Also, @Psyonix: even if you don't revert to previous values, PLEASE consider increasing leap attack max damage to 400. The nerf was excessive on the high end.

ZaeLocK
5th Aug 2014, 21:52
Is the party system working for anyone? Everybody is getting "you are currently not connected to the party server"

Khalith
5th Aug 2014, 21:56
Is the party system working for anyone? Everybody is getting "you are currently not connected to the party server"

It's off right now.

Edit: I already posted my feedback about most of this stuff in the other threads but I'll add my thoughts on the class changes to.

Deceiver
Infect: I can understand why, it's a little too strong in it's old implementation against the average human group.
Shroud: Don't use it, can't comment.

Reaver
Sweeping kick: The ability definitely needed a buff of some kind.
Leap Attack: Absolutely needed, this ability is way too versatile against just about everything (borderline overpowered in fact, I'd even say it is overpowered) with far too short of a cooldown. Something had to give, the new damage is fine.

Prophet: Changes are fine.

PencileyePirate
5th Aug 2014, 22:01
Did anyone else notice the new flame effect when alchemist catches fire?

I typically avoid walking in fire, but ... how are we supposed to aim with that **** on our screen?

BR0sephStalin
5th Aug 2014, 23:03
Update on the state of some of the hotly debated topics from this patch:

- Shroud has had the effect toned back some to make him more transparent, but it will not be as near-invisible as before. This is intentional and is our risk vs. reward balance that I mentioned here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=15290&p=112164#post112164), but we made him too opaque in this last patch.

- The Sentinel motion blur effect has been dialed way back and now properly hooks into the motion blur options settings.

What exactly is the reward of shroud then? I don't understand your logic here. I thought the whole reward was being near invisible. Good players could easily keep track of shrouded deceivers before, now it is even easier and the skill is worthless.

I understand the risk of shroud (significantly lower single target dps, significantly lower mobility), so the only current reward would be AoE damage? AoE damage alone and at the low numbers shroud puts outs over time is extremely niche at best, and hardly a reward.

cmstache
6th Aug 2014, 01:41
Is the party system working for anyone? Everybody is getting "you are currently not connected to the party server"
I spent about 15 minutes trying to get it to work earlier. Couldn't get a single person to get in a party with me. We tried every trick we've learned since Alpha. I'm assuming it's still got some kinks to be worked out. Patience is key with matchmaking. :)

Psyonix_Eric
6th Aug 2014, 02:15
What exactly is the reward of shroud then? I don't understand your logic here. I thought the whole reward was being near invisible. Good players could easily keep track of shrouded deceivers before, now it is even easier and the skill is worthless.

I understand the risk of shroud (significantly lower single target dps, significantly lower mobility), so the only current reward would be AoE damage? AOE damage alone and at the low numbers shroud puts outs over time is extremely niche at best, and hardly a reward.
Shroud is not intended as a 100% escape skill, otherwise it would do no damage, similar to Evasion and Ignore Pain. It's intent is to make a hard-to-see Deceiver that is able to do AOE damage to a group of humans. Making the Deceiver near-invisible as it was before yet still allowing him to do lots of AOE damage is where it goes against the risk vs. reward mechanic I mentioned. If we feel (and we did) that he was too invisible then there's not a balance for the good AOE he does, thus no risk to accompany the reward.

I don't necessarily agree that being hard to see and doing AOE damage to potentially an entire team of humans is a niche skill. I personally use it in my own Deceiver loadouts, to great effectiveness (even in it's current Live state). Yeah, I may die sometimes because I'm seen, but not before I've done a few hundred points of damage. The skill still does damage and you are still harder to see than a regular Deceiver, thus it is not "worthless" but less effective than we intended. As such, that's why I posted an update that it's being dialed back some. We are not, however, going to make it a skill where you are invisible and still able to do a lot of AOE damage. It's just not happening.

Rynnik
6th Aug 2014, 02:16
I spent about 15 minutes trying to get it to work earlier. Couldn't get a single person to get in a party with me. We tried every trick we've learned since Alpha. I'm assuming it's still got some kinks to be worked out. Patience is key with matchmaking. :)

From page 2 of this thread at: http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=15290&page=2&p=112220#post112220


Hey everyone

We're coming back online now. Please note that the party matchmaking servers aren't going to be available right away, but that we're going to be rolling these out. In the meantime, you will be able to play again.

The reason it isn't working is because it is currently turned off. ;)

Rynnik
6th Aug 2014, 02:24
We are not, however, going to make it a skill where you are invisible and still able to do a lot of AOE damage. It's just not happening.

Would you consider doing a pounce/savage pounce sort of skill tradeoff to promote player decision making with the old shroud art/effectiveness but nerfed (or even removed damage) and the current skill in its new form? If it was available as an option I would take an old style nerfed skill personally with my playstyle even if you removed the AoE damage, but it might open up some more tradeoffs/decisions since the deceiver isn't exactly drowning in skills options as it is.

I maybe have 10 deceiver games under my belt since this change and I am pretty sure I am hanging him up (deceiver level 25 on him) in favour of the reaver (again) for the time being as I just can't get the feel right for the present 'f' slot options. (Acknowledging of course that you already said it will be changed a bit based on current feedback - will test again when that launches).

Psyonix_Eric
6th Aug 2014, 02:34
Would you consider doing a pounce/savage pounce sort of skill tradeoff to promote player decision making with the old shroud art/effectiveness but nerfed (or even removed damage) and the current skill in its new form? If it was available as an option I would take an old style nerfed skill personally with my playstyle even if you removed the AoE damage, but it might open up some more tradeoffs/decisions since the deceiver isn't exactly drowning in skills options as it is.
These are the kinds of ideas we encourage! :) Now, Corey and the gameplay team has the final say so on things, but we are all about a variety of skills like this that follow the risk vs reward mindset.

I could see a possibility where we take the partially invisible skill and keep the AOE where you have to decide if the AOE is worth being more visible, and an alternate skill that is more about using it as an escape mechanism yet it does no damage. I'm involved in the gameplay side of things to a small extent but ultimately it is that team's final call. I'll be sure to mention it to them. :)

GenFeelGood
6th Aug 2014, 04:28
These are the kinds of ideas we encourage! :) Now, Corey and the gameplay team has the final say so on things, but we are all about a variety of skills like this that follow the risk vs reward mindset.

I could see a possibility where we take the partially invisible skill and keep the AOE where you have to decide if the AOE is worth being more visible, and an alternate skill that is more about using it as an escape mechanism yet it does no damage. I'm involved in the gameplay side of things to a small extent but ultimately it is that team's final call. I'll be sure to mention it to them. :)

Really Eric, I had assumed such things were already considered since something like this exists for the Reaver, as Rynnik mentioned, and the Tyrant with the charge/marathon? If this isn't the case then allow me to offer a few others for consideration with regard to the Tyrant.

Tyrant
*Jump
-Since there is interest in showing TK properties (as is now present in the charge/marathon) then consider a longer jump, with signs of a kinetic energy build up before hand with the initial charge; or a second jump while in the air that is generated by a downward TK blast that allows you to also change your direction in midair? Which ever variation works better, allows a Tyrant to almost clear the whole map, at the expense of dealing less damage upon impact or a longer cooldown than the standard jump (like there is with charge/marathon).

*Stone Skin
-A heavier version, where the damage taken is reduced to next to nothing; but it either doesn't last as long or it slows the Tyrant down to a crawl as he moves and climbs

*Shockwave
-Let both fists come down together, giving a wider area of effect by creating 3 trails of broken ground (one from each fist and one between them) instead of 1 at the expense of less damage overall.

*Ground Slam
-Give it a longer charge time but give it a ripple effect, where there is the initial blast radius we have now and then a wider secondary one outside of it that deals less damage.

BR0sephStalin
6th Aug 2014, 04:31
Shroud is not intended as a 100% escape skill, otherwise it would do no damage, similar to Evasion and Ignore Pain. It's intent is to make a hard-to-see Deceiver that is able to do AOE damage to a group of humans. Making the Deceiver near-invisible as it was before yet still allowing him to do lots of AOE damage is where it goes against the risk vs. reward mechanic I mentioned. If we feel (and we did) that he was too invisible then there's not a balance for the good AOE he does, thus no risk to accompany the reward.

I don't necessarily agree that being hard to see and doing AOE damage to potentially an entire team of humans is a niche skill. I personally use it in my own Deceiver loadouts, to great effectiveness (even in it's current Live state). Yeah, I may die sometimes because I'm seen, but not before I've done a few hundred points of damage. The skill still does damage and you are still harder to see than a regular Deceiver, thus it is not "worthless" but less effective than we intended. As such, that's why I posted an update that it's being dialed back some. We are not, however, going to make it a skill where you are invisible and still able to do a lot of AOE damage. It's just not happening.

Against decent players the AoE damage is too low, and you are simply too vulnerable. At high levels of play shroud is currently niche, or simply bad and worthless all together. Nobody is asking for more damage. I just don't understand the nerf. You could see shrouded players with relative ease before IMO.

The deceiver is currently played as a class to secure kills, isolate single targets, or disrupt/disorient teams. Shroud doesn't do any of those things currently and simply makes u a sitting duck. It doesn't fit with his current kit at all. Decent players agree universally.

Psyonix_Eric
6th Aug 2014, 04:52
Really Eric, I had assumed such things were already considered since something like this exists for the Reaver, as Rynnik mentioned, and the Tyrant with the charge/marathon? If this isn't the case then allow me to offer a few others for consideration with regard to the Tyrant.
Lots of things are considered. We just can't always talk about them.

SiD_Green
6th Aug 2014, 05:05
Against decent players the AoE damage is too low, and you are simply too vulnerable. At high levels of play shroud is currently niche, or simply bad and worthless all together. Nobody is asking for more damage. I just don't understand the nerf. You could see shrouded players with relative ease before IMO.

The deceiver is currently played as a class to secure kills, isolate single targets, or disrupt/disorient teams. Shroud doesn't do any of those things currently and simply makes u a sitting duck. It doesn't fit with his current kit at all. Decent players agree universally.

I don't. I think this was a reasonable nerf...shroud when used as intended rather than as an escape skill was too effective at hiding you before, for how much damage it did.

FireWorks_
6th Aug 2014, 08:19
Against decent players the AoE damage is too low, and you are simply too vulnerable. At high levels of play shroud is currently niche, or simply bad and worthless all together. Nobody is asking for more damage. I just don't understand the nerf. You could see shrouded players with relative ease before IMO.

The deceiver is currently played as a class to secure kills, isolate single targets, or disrupt/disorient teams. Shroud doesn't do any of those things currently and simply makes u a sitting duck. It doesn't fit with his current kit at all. Decent players agree universally.

Exactly this.

@Psyonix
If you could at least interrupt the shroud to attack at will. Then you could use it as offense tool but its way too long and just marks you as target to be shot at, that cant retaliate til the fight is over anyway. The dps is laughable and advertising it as AoE skill? Are you playing against muppets?

Dont think you should do balance decisions on the lowest end of the playerbase. Sure you can shredd new players with a deceiver. But that can be done with any class. (See "omg omg [tyrant|reaver|sentinel] OP" threads)

BTW whats the risk of the hunter grenades?

Whoopdidoohah
6th Aug 2014, 13:24
I don't. I think this was a reasonable nerf...shroud when used as intended rather than as an escape skill was too effective at hiding you before, for how much damage it did.

Problem is, it couldn't be used as intended against the average human. You got Bolaed, you got a grenade up your ass and your were toasted. They completely destroyed the skill with the change, it's pathetic. Really, Shroud was only good at doing little bits of damage to nearby ennemies while you make a quick exit via the closest wall to climb or path out of sight.

Clearly, vampires are at HUGE risks when in melee range of the humans, and Shroud deals less dmg/s than regular attacks. There is absolutely no rewards whatsoever to use this skill to damage humans, you'd better off do some melee hits and dodges around as it deals more damage and you have more chances of actually finishing your ennemy before he kills you (if you dodge behind him, hit, dodge behind him, hit, rinse repeat).

SiD_Green
6th Aug 2014, 13:45
I disagree, I find it fairly easy to dodge bolas and to be a nuisance while my team closes in

Whoopdidoohah
6th Aug 2014, 14:06
you sir, are full of it and you know it XD

Edit : You're telling me with a straight face that you actually like shroud as is post-patch and that you would use it now against any and everyone ? Let me just laugh.

Voxyld
6th Aug 2014, 17:50
Against decent players the AoE damage is too low, and you are simply too vulnerable. At high levels of play shroud is currently niche, or simply bad and worthless all together. Nobody is asking for more damage. I just don't understand the nerf. You could see shrouded players with relative ease before IMO.

The deceiver is currently played as a class to secure kills, isolate single targets, or disrupt/disorient teams. Shroud doesn't do any of those things currently and simply makes u a sitting duck. It doesn't fit with his current kit at all. Decent players agree universally.


What exactly is the reward of shroud then? I don't understand your logic here. I thought the whole reward was being near invisible. Good players could easily keep track of shrouded deceivers before, now it is even easier and the skill is worthless.

I understand the risk of shroud (significantly lower single target dps, significantly lower mobility), so the only current reward would be AoE damage? AoE damage alone and at the low numbers shroud puts outs over time is extremely niche at best, and hardly a reward.

I totally agree with this. Hope we will have a new shroud skill intended for escape. And if this is happening then i think it will be obvious that a few prefer the aoe one. And the suggestions made for the tyrant are very interresting too =)