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View Full Version : Please revert Feb 25th Vampire changes



HoopleDoople
28th Feb 2015, 20:02
I have been extremely supportive of the Nosgoth team to date, even when they've made mistakes or been slow on correcting obvious problems. However, this latest patch has completely destroyed my ability to enjoy the game and needs to be addressed ASAP. Obviously the Vanguard is absurdly OP and I've seen the upcoming changes which should go a long way to fixing this aspect of the problem. But what I believe is an equally large problem is the Vampire tweaks that have inadvertently caused a massive nerf to a faction that was already underpowered.

By far the worst change has been the modification of the melee damage, timing, and distance. I cannot even begin to describe how much I loathe it.

The biggest effect has been that it is now significantly harder for Vampires to remain in melee range. It's hard enough to survive to melee range against skilled Humans - the Vampires damn well deserve to keep their target within melee range when they do so. The Reaver in particular goes about 2 inches per melee attack. This gives him massively lower DPS because you HAVE to utilize rolls to stay in melee range (wasn't this a mechanic the devs were trying to move away from?!). Even if the enemy remains close enough that you can spam away with melee the lack of movement makes you an easy target.

It is also worth noting that Vampires don't exactly do well in prolonged combat - by design they are hit and run attackers until they are in a position of strength. Weaker melee hits is not a good thing if you have to immediately leave combat after landing only one or two. Shorter melee distance also makes it significantly harder to utilize charged attacks to enter combat and/or surprise a Human for a massive hit. As Summoner and Sweeping Kick Reaver this was my go to move to join the team in combat; now it isn't anything special at all.

Faster recovery from knockdown does benefit the Vampires against the Vanguard's charge or Warbow knockdown, but overall has been a boon for the Humans. It would have been far more sensible to give each ability/weapon with knockdown its own duration for more precise balancing.

The poor Tyrant can no longer combo his Charge/Marathon into a slam, particularly with the slower Groundslam animation. The Tyrant was too weak before; this kills him despite the faster move speed. Leave the combos alone and worry about Enrage if anything (as it takes the combos to the next level). I will say that I wouldn't mind the Tyrant being gifted a permanent buff of the faster move speed and have his attacks remain tweaked - for him alone do they feel like a buff. The Tyrant's attacks were so ungodly slow before that they were easy to dodge and missing even one was killer. If and only if the Tyrant is given buffs to make it competitive at high skill levels should his combos be broken to improve play at low skill levels.

Until the Vanguard is nerfed I am sitting out on Nosgoth. If when he is nerfed the Vampires aren't restored to their former greatness (not that they were all that great...) I'll give it a try but I am highly skeptical that it will suffice. This has been such a great game I would hate to see it ruined by these ill-conceived changes. Please please PLEASE present your ideas of this nature to the player base BEFORE implementing them next time. We would have quickly informed you of the problems these changes would cause and have saved everyone a big headache.

ApollosBow
1st Mar 2015, 05:29
Until the Vanguard is nerfed I am sitting out on Nosgoth.

Your not the first to say this and prob wont be the last, hopefully not long before something is done. I dont have this option because im addicted.

In terms of the melee something 50/50 between what they'v done and what some of the player base wants is probably the best option.

--Ram--
1st Mar 2015, 05:55
In terms of the melee something 50/50 between what they'v done and what some of the player base wants is probably the best option.

Why would this be best? Seems like you don't have any reasoning. The old system was deemed not great and in need of change, the new melee is far worse in most circumstances. The recent change may have been a worthwhile experiment if only to show that it is bad so devs can pursue a different line of thought entirely.

--Ram--
1st Mar 2015, 05:57
In terms of the melee something 50/50 between what they'v done and what some of the player base wants is probably the best option.

Why would this be best? Seems like you don't have any reasoning. The old system was deemed not great and in need of change, the new melee is far worse in most circumstances. The recent change may have been a worthwhile experiment if only to show that it is bad so devs can pursue a different line of thought entirely.

If you are playing at a level where the vamp team can all just LMB spam and wipe the humans then the change likely didn't affect you much, but the idea was to introduce a "more skillful" melee system and this certainly isn't it.

Necroth24
1st Mar 2015, 17:02
having the same problems adjusting to the patch ... i dont mind the vanguard being somewhat op atm for i know its gonna get nerfed to oblivion in the coming patches either way... only thing that has completely taken the fun outta the game for me were those vamp changes. they just feel so incredibly slow. i daresay i was pretty good playin vamp until the recent patch hit me right in the square. now im just lucky to get anything done at all without lookin like i just started playin this. sadly, as i find this to be more stressing than fun, i've withdrawn for the game for now, but really hope to make a comback once this has been dealt with.

that being said i'd really love the vamp changes to be reverted.


- Nec

ApollosBow
1st Mar 2015, 18:07
Why would this be best? Seems like you don't have any reasoning. The old system was deemed not great and in need of change, the new melee is far worse in most circumstances. The recent change may have been a worthwhile experiment if only to show that it is bad so devs can pursue a different line of thought entirely.

If you are playing at a level where the vamp team can all just LMB spam and wipe the humans then the change likely didn't affect you much, but the idea was to introduce a "more skillful" melee system and this certainly isn't it.

Should have elaborated more sorry, what I'm saying is keep the vamp speed boost because I thought it was ridiculous a human could outright outrun a vampire (unless spamming space bar, which was an unintended flaw) and also the Tyrant is more playable with it, I wouldn't mind them making another stab at a different melee system.

In terms of it not affecting certain players, lets be honest, everyone probably plays together since the player base is so small right now (1000-3000 avg, except on week of a new class release = 4000, that's probably 1000 per region spread throughout the day on regular weeks) so I think that any change effects everyone.

Equanimityjohn
3rd Mar 2015, 18:51
I think the melee speed and move speed changes feel fantastic, but the lack of burst damage and reduction in charged attack distance are the real problems in my opinion. Honestly, the vamps needed the extra attack speed with little counter-balancing necessary, they're extremely outclassed in high end play, especially with humans having a bruiser like the Vanguard now.

HoopleDoople
4th Mar 2015, 02:47
Any of the moderators care to enlighten us on what the devs plans regarding the new melee are? Keep as is? revert? Tweak?

I keep thinking I'll learn to better tolerate these changes with time and unfortunately I'm just getting more and more frustrated. :(

The only saving grace is that Sentinel is a lot better with Vanguards being popular and at least the Sentinel does the overwhelming majority of his damage through abilities anyway. I miss the Reaver though.

TheDreamcrusher
4th Mar 2015, 03:41
At least the Sentinel is dynamic and adaptable. Comparing Tyrant's abilities... Not so dynamic. I guess it's not an easy comparison to make with a landlocked vampire versus a flyer, but still. I guess ease of use is what comes to mind.

gzvirax
4th Mar 2015, 03:44
Another thread on this topic is right here. (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=152627)

Buntify
5th Mar 2015, 23:59
I agree, attack do so little damage now.