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XJadeDragoonX
26th Feb 2015, 06:39
I think the tyrant is in a bad place. Especially now that the Vanguard is out. The Vanguard can EASILY and SINGLE HANDEDLY solo a tyrant. The damage output is way better. If you try and use enrage, the Vanguard eats you alive. If you use ignore pain, the damage is still decent since it has such a high base number AND it leaves you defenseless. I think its about time to do something proactive with the Tyrant. Im not saying let him use ALL his abilities with ignore pain on. Just charge and jump so they can actually get in without taking half their health. If you charge in as a Tyrant and a Scout charge shots you while youre coming in, thats almost have your health. a couple alchemist shots and youre finished. It forces you to pop ignore pain after causing some discord and retreat for a little.

Im good with the Tyrant and i like the Tyrant a lot. I just dont see him as relevant to the meta game. It never hurts your team when you dont have a Tyrant against certain team comps. Theres no huge advantage he has over other characters.

Just let him use his charge with ignore pain. Its not that big a deal and could make a huge dfference. Especially now with the powerful Vanguard out.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 08:28
I never understood why Ignore Pain disabled everything myself. Evasion is an escape move so that makes sense - you're escaping, you don't need to attack anyway. But Ignore Pain is a defensive move. There's just little point in the defense if you can't utilize any offense along with it.

I could see a case for allowing Charge to operate that way. Or even just an alternative, shorter version with that capability. Though there was a patch today that (allegedly) makes the Tyrant less woeful. I haven't tried it out yet.

Da_Wolv
26th Feb 2015, 10:06
Tyrant just needs higher base health or some sort of armor.
but most importantly it needs its friggn melee hitboxes fixed!
IDK how long people have been complaining about it but its about time something is being done.

The Abilities seem fine (with the exception of better aiming for Throw and Jump) but the regular attack pattern needs some serious work.

XJadeDragoonX
26th Feb 2015, 13:21
I wouldnt even call it an escape move. You still take damage so its not like turning invisible or takeoff or evasion. Its not all that safe. I think if the enemy can hurt you, you should be able to hurt them. Plain and simple.

Ghosthree3
26th Feb 2015, 13:41
Are you insane? If you can't damage tyrants as they charge in you won't kill them at all.

ApollosBow
26th Feb 2015, 14:19
Are you insane? If you can't damage tyrants as they charge in you won't kill them at all.

With a good human team you don't get to charge in, you get knockdown by Warbow or some other stun...then you die.

I think fixing the melee and adding a slightly higher base health (1425) could be an easy fix OR do the Ignore Pain Idea (being able to still use charge, jump and throw with Ignore Pain)

XJadeDragoonX
26th Feb 2015, 14:37
Are you insane? If you can't damage tyrants as they charge in you won't kill them at all.

you can easily still take a huge amount of damage even with ignore pain

--Ram--
26th Feb 2015, 14:43
With a good human team you don't get to charge in, you get knockdown by Warbow or some other stun...then you die.

Lol... You can start charge outside human vision, you cannot get knocked down during charge.

ApollosBow
26th Feb 2015, 17:06
Lol... You can start charge outside human vision, you cannot get knocked down during charge.

Positive? I swear iv been knocked multiple times, maybe I was coming to the end of it, but I dont think so.:scratch:

XJadeDragoonX
26th Feb 2015, 17:18
The worst is there's no cue to that youre being hit with the axe except your health going down. There's no sound that indicates you're being hit so sometimes your health just drops and you don't notice. The days of ignore pain stopping you from doing moves should be over.

Persiphas
26th Feb 2015, 17:25
I'd rather want to see a new skill for tyrant for such a purpose, for example sth like: "Dampen: the Tyrant uses his telekinetic powers to lower the impact of projectiles. Damage is reduced by 40% for 8 seconds. " (of course the numbers need a little adjustment, but it would create a new playstyle for tyrant: next to a very defensive IP playstyle, which often consists of entering battle and leaving it after popping IP, and a berserking, rather sneaky enrage style there would be a new playstyle with medium tankyness and the ability to stay in battle)
As soon as the vanguard nerf comes out there is no reason to cry about getting insta-killed as soon as you enter LoS (and btw, if you have to charge over a huge distance while in los, then you are doing it wrong)

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 17:56
I'd rather want to see a new skill for tyrant for such a purpose, for example sth like: "Dampen: the Tyrant uses his telekinetic powers to lower the impact of projectiles. Damage is reduced by 40% for 8 seconds. "

Who would ever use Ignore Pain then? XD

Not a bad idea though.

Persiphas
26th Feb 2015, 18:16
Who would ever use Ignore Pain then? XD

Not a bad idea though.

The way I use IP is to make humans waste their abilities on me, to block their LoS to protect teammates and as an escape move. You could not do this with the "dampen"-skill that I suggested effectively, since the damage that the tyrant receives would be still too high for these purposes. What a ~40% damage reduce would do, is let you stay in a fight very long, which would make this (hypothetical) build the most consistent one of the 3 builds (enrage is easy to shut down with a CC, IP provides the best method to bait CC skills and survive at the cost of consistency (= I mean staying in a fight for a long time) and "dampen" would make your ability to kill people rapidly inferior to Enrage and your bait/survival skills inferior to IP but enables the most consistent presence on the battlefield)
So with this skill the Tyrant would gain a new playstyle without making a skill useless imo.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 19:25
The way I use IP is to make humans waste their abilities on me

I've never seen humans bother to use abilities on an IP'd Tyrant. They just switch to other targets in their line of sight.

This other ability sounds like a great potential addition to the Tyrant though.

ApollosBow
26th Feb 2015, 20:12
I'd rather want to see a new skill for tyrant for such a purpose, for example sth like: "Dampen: the Tyrant uses his telekinetic powers to lower the impact of projectiles.

Unfortunately I seem to remember the Dev team had suggested this for a summoner ability in one of the streams, I think.



The worst is there's no cue to that youre being hit with the axe except your health going down. There's no sound that indicates you're being hit so sometimes your health just drops and you don't notice. The days of ignore pain stopping you from doing moves should be over.

This could be the number 1 reason for the hate (without knowing it), people just don't realize there being hit by him until its to late (me included).


I've never seen humans bother to use abilities on an IP'd Tyrant. They just switch to other targets in their line of sight.

Ye, they might shoot at him for a few seconds to ward him off, but wasting an ability on an IP'd Tyrant is generally seen as that, wasted.

Persiphas
26th Feb 2015, 20:29
You can pop IP after they used a skill (for example bolas. on a hunter-heavy team I often get hit by 2 as soon as they can move again from the initiate.). You can also stand in the way when hunter for example wants to attack teammates with a skill. Thats basically what I meant. And the last time I played nosgoth it still worked this way in many cases in "normal" (not esl level) lvl 40s play. Can't say for sure if it still works because I had ~2 matches in the past 4 weeks.

Jallford
26th Feb 2015, 21:04
This strikes me as a bad idea and of the mindset that charge/jump attack has to be used as an initiating attack. Personally I don't initiate as a Tyrant - other classes can do it so much better and with far less risk. If you charge in first you should legitimately become a target to be shot down, unless your team assist you you should die if you're being focused by 4 people.

Imagine an Ignore Pain Tyrant charging through 4 injured enemies after the rest of their team has died, escaping essentially unscathed. That just sounds a bit too much.

Das_wolf
8th Mar 2015, 03:30
as a tyrant main, i have no problem 1v1ing with vangaurd

PencileyePirate
8th Mar 2015, 03:39
Hell no. I agree that Ignore Pain isn't particularly useful, but allowing charge during IP is just asinine.

GenFeelGood
8th Mar 2015, 03:51
I'd rather they buffed the Charge/Marathon by making that TK barrier more than cosmetic, perhaps blocking or reducing the damage from all the shots fired at him through the barrier as he charges.

I would like to Jump while using Ignore Pain to protect against Hex Shot, Knives, or full drawn Warbow shots.

TheDreamcrusher
8th Mar 2015, 04:03
An idea for a new ability might be a weaker combined version of Ignore Pain and Enrage. Upon activation, a Tyrant would do more damage and move faster the more HP he has, but will deal less damage and take less damage the more hurt he is. It would add a slight damage buff for uses during Charge and would give the Tyrant a better chance for escape should he start to take damage.

It would benefit Charge, but not really Jump Attack, aside from the already stated as it wouldn't stop Warbow shots or other cc. The new ability could have that benefit, but you probably would never see Tyrants engage unless this ability was up.

_Kine_
8th Mar 2015, 04:18
1. needs higher base health or some sort of armor.

2. needs its friggn melee hitboxes fixed!
IDK how long people have been complaining about it but its about time something is being done.

3. regular attack pattern needs some serious work.


Was thinking about mild buffs to Tyrants that would make the most impact and came to the same conclusion.

Adding extra HP wouldn't be too much because he is an easy big target. Even non ESL 0% accuracy players can land all his shots on a Tyrant from across the map.

My interpretation of 'Armour' is natural damage resistance to piercing damage types. Specifically only from Hunter's Crossbow, Scout's Bow and Prophet's Pistols. A simple % reduction would be effective.

This way, Tyrants will still remain vulnerable to his natural counters - Alchemist, Vanguards, AoEs, Incendiary etc. but not be so unrealistically weak against omni focus fires like he is now. Pops in 2 seconds against decent Human teams I swear.

2. and 3. goes hand in hand. I feel Tyrant could benefit from a new melee animation set.

Swinging - swiping strikes with wide arcs that can damage multiple enemies in front of him. Fits the Tyrant theme. Low DPS compensated with the potential to easily hit multiple targets. A stagger or knockdown status effect on his third and final strike in his melee combo wouldn't be so bad either.

example: Right Hook, Left Hook, Right Uppercut

*edit - reaver and deceiver with high DPS melees can actually hit multiple targets far easier than Tyrant who has low damage.

PencileyePirate
8th Mar 2015, 07:55
I'd rather they buffed the Charge/Marathon by making that TK barrier more than cosmetic, perhaps blocking or reducing the damage from all the shots fired at him through the barrier as he charges.

This is an even worse suggestion than in the original post ... shooting Tyrants while they charge is the best way to counter those skills, as they already block all CCs. Besides, there's no reason to buff Charge/Marathon (those skills are generally accepted as being in a good spot.)


I would like to Jump while using Ignore Pain to protect against Hex Shot, Knives, or full drawn Warbow shots.

I'd rather Jump become immune to Warbow, leaving knives/bolas/hex as the main counters. IP would be too strong on Charge and it wouldn't make sense for it to combine with only Jump.

Khalith
8th Mar 2015, 11:35
Attack with ignore pain up? No way, as much as I like the idea I don't think it's good on the longterm.

But reduced damage + cc immunity while USING charge or jump? Hell yes, absolutely needs to happen.