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absinthesize
26th Feb 2015, 01:54
ive played a lot of pvp games in my time. just from reading posts and reading the abilities, i can tell vanguard is probably unbalanced.

the fact that he has less range is entirely negligible. because vampires cant secure kills outside his range.

so you combine his damage, with his tankiness, and his sustain, and hes just outright better.

his axes have travel time? your not going to reliably dodge them, this games movements have too much weight.

he has short range? again doesnt matter, beacuse outside of a few specials vampires have zero range.

i understand that due to his tankiness and sustain he needed a way to become a target but by giving him high damage you just unbalance things. rather he should have been annoying, more about intterupts and sustain.

oh wait he has those...so why the high damage again?

ill log into the game again eventually and try it out from both sides, but right now i dont even have the want/will to log in given what im reading.

"you have to log in and try it for yourself, its not that bad"

any time anyone has ever told me that, they were wrong >.>

so lets summarize

travel time on axes+lower range then all the other humans is NOT enough of a drawback given these features.

ability to consistantly interrupt

able to tank damage

able to sustain himself and others

able to do a lot of DPS (in b4 less then hunters)

and can simultaneously create punish windows on vampires while maintaining a frightfully small window of punishment of his own.

currently he has no counter

he makes tyrants even weaker

he removes the hunters need to MOVE if being targeted by a special like reavers pounce or tyrant charge. now they just tank it and destroy.

the two vampires youd think might be able to counter them...do not

sentinal can be interrupted by there shield completly, putting you on the ground, your good as dead.

summoner can at best harrass.

I will say one good thing, it creates a need for vampire players to stick together and work together more, this was needed. but even if doing that, it doesnt stop how unbalanced vanguard is.

so enjoy your game. ill be back in time. just bought evolve (ugh) and 30 days of premium for robocraft (yay) and have fun with those for a while.

nope not gonna do it, not gonna log in right now and try, not until either vampire players learn to use teamwork more in pugs and/or vangaurds are damagewise so that they can SETUP for other humans to punish vampires rather then do it all.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 05:33
"Yada yada yada, the Vanguard sucks. Firsthand experience? What's that?"

"Blah blah blah, I'm not gonna play this game."

Okay. Good for you.

Korevas
26th Feb 2015, 10:57
Uh huh. Thank you for this completely baseless rant.

Slight numbers nerfs on both his dps and defense are already slated for the next update, but IMO the big picture here is that the classes' concept is absolutely brilliant and provides an ample difference in playstyle that will really shake up the meta again.

absinthesize
26th Feb 2015, 11:25
Uh huh. Thank you for this completely baseless rant.

Slight numbers nerfs on both his dps and defense are already slated for the next update, but IMO the big picture here is that the classes' concept is absolutely brilliant and provides an ample difference in playstyle that will really shake up the meta again.

what meta you speak of?

he punishes vampires for melee

thats like having a vampire that punishes humans for shooting projectiles.

its like forcing humans to have to kill a vampire with there melee 100% to 0%

i dont see it shaking up meta

i see it breaking the game.

i do hope im wrong tho.

ApollosBow
26th Feb 2015, 17:14
Your complaining about things in a game which is in Beta (it has to be fine tuned) and your saying what? Your going to play evolve instead....lol, enjoy that 60$ pay window into an overpriced f2p model of a game......:lol:3$ for a different colored gun (about 100 different dlc's right there), 50 different editions, if this is the type of game your holding over Nosgoth I dont think you'll ever be happy with it.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 17:53
i dont see it shaking up meta

i see it breaking the game.

Cool story. Hey, maybe try playing the game.


3$ for a different colored gun

Nosgoth is over $5 for a skin...So I'm not sure it has too much superior ground there.

darthmo2
26th Feb 2015, 18:24
IMO the Vanguard is a good addition to the game. Now the chances for winning are equal for both Humans and Vampires.

ApollosBow
26th Feb 2015, 18:35
Cool story. Hey, maybe try playing the game.



Nosgoth is over $5 for a skin...So I'm not sure it has too much superior ground there.

Ye but Nosgoths idea of a skin is a full character model completely different from the default, where as Evolves idea of a skin is a Dev clicking on the paint can to change the color. It would be as if the only skins in Nosgoth were the recolor ones and still being charged 5$ :/

ElJefe59
26th Feb 2015, 19:21
I agree with absinthesize. The game is currently broken with the edition of the "perfect human class". They made a class that has no downside. Tweaking numbers wont do anything. For it to be balanced they need to take something away from him. Like most of his DPS, or heals. I'm sure all of you that responded negatively to him play vanguard every chance you can get just to make you feel like you're good at the game...

ApollosBow
26th Feb 2015, 19:56
I agree with absinthesize. The game is currently broken with the edition of the "perfect human class". They made a class that has no downside. Tweaking numbers wont do anything. For it to be balanced they need to take something away from him. Like most of his DPS, or heals. I'm sure all of you that responded negatively to him play vanguard every chance you can get just to make you feel like you're good at the game...

:thumb: Great job sounding like a complete pleb, and what makes you sure exactly?.....because we disagree'd with him?.....I do think the Vanguard is OP right now (I came to this opinion by playing the game), but like every class that comes out it has to be patched to perfect it, hence the game being in Beta. The poster said he was going stop playing because he "read" what the Vanguard is like, you can see why that might sound stupid.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 20:12
I'm sure all of you that responded negatively to him play vanguard every chance you can get just to make you feel like you're good at the game...

In that case, I'm sure you're a prat.

The negative responses are not: VANGUARD ISN'T OP AT ALL AND DOESN'T NEED ANY CHANGES!

The negative responses are: Refusing to play a game anymore based purely on stuff you've read is dumb. Deliberately avoiding firsthand experience that might lend credibility to your complaints is dumb. Announcing your intent to stop playing as if your very presence is important to the community is dumb. Doing all of this without providing any meaningful suggestions for change ('The range is meaningless! The axe travel time is meaningless! Why does he have high damage?!' - Valuable feedback, guy!) is dumb. Spouting a load of nonsensical speculation ('summoner can at best harrass' - false) is dumb.

And it is. All of that is really, very, truly dumb.

absinthesize
26th Feb 2015, 22:43
IMO the Vanguard is a good addition to the game. Now the chances for winning are equal for both Humans and Vampires.


at a lower skill level sure, just means its that broken at a high skill level where humans have advantage.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 23:02
at a lower skill level sure, just means its that broken at a high skill level where humans have advantage.

Did you play the game yet to determine that?

A large part of why humans excel at high levels is that in general, they deal too much damage too quickly. That's the area that needs to be looked at a bit. Though Vanguard specifically does need some balancing - not that you would know because you apparently never actually played, just read about it - and the devs are already on that.

Ghosthree3
26th Feb 2015, 23:33
His damage is too high, but that's my only problem with him.

GenFeelGood
27th Feb 2015, 04:19
I get that you are concerned about having a bad experience so let me tell you what have I learned in just two word, Go Sentinel!

Honestly, this is the most fun I have had with that class in a long time. Admittedly, there are a few things you should know when using Sentinel against the Vanguard.

I find Wing Flap is better than Puncture as a finisher, that shield can hold off the lunge of the wing tips during Puncture; but that gust from the Wing Flap still knocks them back off their feet and you can easily follow it with a charged melee that the Vanguard can't block in time. This is just as a finisher, otherwise avoid going toe to toe so no dive bomb; and with air strike you need to make sure you are a good distance away or behind something when you pause to throw. They aren't that accurate at long range but you can have 6 or 7 axes coming at you all at once and you only need to get hit by 3 or 4 to die if you have full health. I have had fun using Echolation to track down the lone Scout out of the bunch, because eventually one of them will realize that someone needs to give up their time with Vanguard if they wanna stay within a shout of winning.

Edit
As for being put on the ground by their shield, yes and no. If you are just within range of the shield charge it will bring you down; but if it is you charging at them with Kidnap/Abduct and they meet you with Shield Charge or simply raise their shield, you will snatch them up without taking an ounce of damage. I have encountered this numerous times on both sides of the equation and it has been the same result, the Sentinel wins; but only if the Vanguard is in the path of the ability, they can take you down with Shield Charge from the sides or from the front if you have already snatched someone and haven't gone up yet.

crutchie
3rd Mar 2015, 12:39
Not sure why you would be terrified of a video game?

All seriousness though Yes, he's broken, blah blah blah. He's a raid boss that takes 2 or 3 vamps to drop him. This is annoying cause even though he does a ton of damage, it's generally the annoying hunter or scout. that kills you after. But you still win games and get to have fun playing an awesome class. Now the nerfs start to get him balanced.