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View Full Version : Patch Notes - February 25th, 2015



Saikocat
25th Feb 2015, 13:38
Vanguard

The Vanguard is now available! Equipped with mighty throwing axes and a shield, the Vanguard can take more punishment than any human class that has come before, but his long range damage potential is limited. His abilities focus on using his shield to disrupt or disable enemies and secondary support powers to enhance or protect teammates.

Unlike other humans, holding down the Right Mouse button with Vanguard activates his Shield Block stance. Shield Block repels frontal attacks, reducing damage taken from that direction by 90% and negating status effects like Stagger. You can only block so much damage, however, and the hit that breaks your block will leave you vulnerable. The amount of damage you can block with your shield regenerates slowly over time.


Matchmaking


Implemented a priority queue players are placed into when they have been waiting too long to find a match near their MMR. Priority queue players will be paired up with players of a similar MMR and can be placed into a match further outside their skill range, but on opposite teams.
Premade parties now matchmake with an increased MMR (above their actual average skill)
Matchmaking will no longer place you into a game with a massive score disparity



Balancing

Vampire Movement

Movement speeds increased by roughly 5% for all vampires
Acceleration rate increased for all vampires (change directions more quickly)
Dodge speed bonus reduced to 105%/100%/95% (was 115%/105%/100%)



Vampire Melee

All LMB melee attacks have been re-timed to allow players to either instigate another attack, or resume movement, more quickly without dodging, to allow more flexibility and mobility in melee combat. The animations are unchanged, but the time you are locked into each attack is shorter. In practice, this increases melee attack speed by 10-20% per class, and damage has been reduced accordingly to maintain previous DPS values.

The travel distance of melee has also been reduced slightly in combination with the base movement speed increases (above). In total, this should make melee more responsive and skillful, but less capable of gap closing via button mashing. We will be keeping a very close eye on this change and tuning as necessary based on your feedback.




Tyrant

Ground Slam

Animation now happens 10% slower. This reduces a Closed Beta buff that previously increased it to 125% of normal speed. This is an attempt to mitigate the removal of the Global Cooldown indirectly buffing Tyrant combos.



Summoner

Summon Stalkers

Stalkers are now leashed to the Summoner and will engage enemies in their line of sight up to their leash distance. When no enemies are present, they will follow the Summoner.
Stalker lifespan increased to 10 seconds (was 8) to compensate for this change
Significantly reduced the camera shake stalkers cause when attacking a human




Prophet

Disabling Curse

Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds (was 25)




Status Effects

Knockdown

Get Up animation plays 10% faster for all characters




Perks

Fleet Footed

Sprint Speed bonus reduced to 12% (was 20%)

Sprint Speed (Items)

Modifier reduced to +/- 3% (was 5%)

Weapon Spread (Items)

Modifier reduced to +/- 5% (was 8%)




Interface

AOE Targeting

Improved AOE targeted abilities (Prophet Curses, Hell Strike) to be more reliably targetable. They should no longer "snag" on random objects in the world, instead trying to cast at the ground location you're looking at. If you are looking upwards at a wall, they will try to cast on the rooftop if possible.



Tooltips

Added "Status Effect" tooltips to items that cause Stagger, Knockdown, Blind, or Disable
Weapons and abilities with firing delays or burst firing mechanics now display a more accurate "Fire Rate" tooltip



Bug Fixes

Fixed an issue that caused servers to rarely get stuck in the lobby state and not load into the map when the countdown ended
Fixed issue that rarely caused game client to attempt to download large amounts of item information when a match started, potentially causing desync issues with the server
Player movement will now interpolate more smoothly during melee attacks and certain ability states
Player MMR is no longer visible in the log
Summoned pets no longer inflate the Summoner's accuracy statistics
Dedicated servers will now be more lenient about kicking players who load slowly into matches

MasterShuriko
25th Feb 2015, 13:50
AWesome thanks Cat!

puff_ng
25th Feb 2015, 13:52
What does the Tyrant change mean?

Necro71
25th Feb 2015, 13:52
Are respawns in flashpoint fixed?

Why do You guys make humans even slower? its like with +20% from perk and +5% from item it was hard to run from vampires. and now bonuses has been cutted in half.

Also Hell Strike should have option to not relese till player hold RMB.

XJadeDragoonX
25th Feb 2015, 13:54
Nooooo why change the Tyrant? You didnt even really remove global cooldowns. There is still a delay between moves. Tyrant is the most underused character already. Everyone asks for a buff and you make his move takes longer? cmon guys....

Saikocat
25th Feb 2015, 13:59
Will post as soon as we're back online. It can take up to 2 hours, hopefully quicker.

-Konf-
25th Feb 2015, 14:03
In practice, this increases melee attack speed by 10-20% per class, and damage has been reduced accordingly to maintain previous DPS values.
Can we please get information on new attack values?

SquirrelInDaSky
25th Feb 2015, 14:04
Vanguard

Perks

Fleet Footed

Sprint Speed bonus reduced to 12% (was 20%)

Sprint Speed (Items)

Modifier reduced to +/- 3% (was 5%)

Weapon Spread (Items)

Modifier reduced to +/- 5% (was 8%)


[/LIST]

Changes coming in the future patches: Perks have been removed due to how useless they are.

--Ram--
25th Feb 2015, 14:06
Are respawns in flashpoint fixed?
Why do You guys make humans even slower?


Because they should never be able to outrun a vampire or even rival them for move speed. It was a needed change.

Necro71
25th Feb 2015, 14:07
Changes coming in the future patches: Perks have been removed due to how useless they are.

+1
I dont know if i should cry or laugh. And they asks 2400 gold for permament perk :O

Sasha_Vykos
25th Feb 2015, 14:09
quick toughts:

1. nerfing a bit tyrant while many people ask for a buff or at least some modification (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=152380 as an example)... can't understand it. I hope the new way to melee can at least help him.

2. no mention about the bug that doesn't show the experience for 25 lv classes

3. what's the point of "Premade parties now matchmake with an increased MMR (above their actual average skill)"? Its a team based game and you risk to create a big disadvantage to all those players that just want to play togheter without using a voice chat. They will play vs better players and they will not have any type of advantage not using a voice chat. I'm not talking about me personally because my mmr is between 1800 - 2000 but I'm thinking about lower mmr players..they will not have a good time

4. I hoped for something better about summoner.. I still think its terrible playing vs 2 of them. Also we need some advice when hell strike is casted

5. No mention about any change of the scoreboard.. the vast majority of feedbacks seems negative to me

6. Flashpoint is completely broken. Fix?

I'm really curious about vanguard and the other changes.

--Ram--
25th Feb 2015, 14:09
Nooooo why change the Tyrant? You didnt even really remove global cooldowns. There is still a delay between moves. Tyrant is the most underused character already. Everyone asks for a buff and you make his move takes longer? cmon guys....

Kind of feel the same, however at least he may feel slightly less sluggish given the tweaks to vamp move speed, and nerf to fleet footed.

iHeadshot
25th Feb 2015, 14:11
The gold maintains you playing the game. I would like the Flashpoint ->Starting Respawn<- to be fixed ;) although the normal respawns are cool to me (despite the fact some ppl complaining) it makes the game more hardcore and in permanent fights.

Although when the point is almost done, if all humans die, they should appear somewhere else instead on top of vampires (almost dead) standing at the point...

iHeadshot
25th Feb 2015, 14:14
You just need to get used to the new scoreboard... Seeing when someone is almost dead with the old version is a disadvantage for the player trying to heal himself (you don't see anyone HP state in other games...)

--Ram--
25th Feb 2015, 14:15
3. what's the point of "Premade parties now matchmake with an increased MMR (above their actual average skill)"?


The point is whether they decide to use voice chat or not groups tend to operate well together and are generally more effective than their skill level may indicate. The guys that don't have a good time tend to be the rabble playing against the group, this is only fair.

Whalys
25th Feb 2015, 14:17
i think the fleet footed nerf sux. and -8% speed isnt enough, vamps r now 5% faster.
thats means they will get u anyways, no matter what.
sounds pretty **** :/
for me it was cool like it was. sometimes u chased the humans, to the spot where they respawn/over the whole map. u killed the one and may die or u leave it and have 1 less kill.
those situations wont happen anymore.

Necro71
25th Feb 2015, 14:20
Sometimes it looks like people who do those changes don't play their own game at all...

Whalys
25th Feb 2015, 14:22
ofc they dont :P
if u sit in an office 8h a day programming this game, do u wanna c it after work at home too? ^^

Sasha_Vykos
25th Feb 2015, 14:23
The point is whether they decide to use voice chat or not groups tend to operate well together and are generally more effective than their skill level may indicate. The guys that don't have a good time tend to be the rabble playing against the group, this is only fair.

what's the difference to play with casual players or play with in game friends without voice chat? There aren't differences imo (other than the fun of playing with someone that you "know"), so I don't see how it can be fair. "tend to operate well togheter".. maybe if you play with the same people very often, but for example I play with many different people and without voice chat is not different than play with casual players.

iHeadshot
25th Feb 2015, 14:24
I would agree. I think the developers should test their game... There are 2 "bugs" on summoners that really show they don't.

1st - when you get killed by Hell Strike, the icon that shows is the disabling curse from Prophet

2nd - when you summon the big minion the "icon target" is the same as the reaver's "pounce"

If they tested the class they should've seen this right after...

Vampmaster
25th Feb 2015, 14:28
It's amazing how everyone's managed to evaluate the new patch before it's even been released.

Sasha_Vykos
25th Feb 2015, 14:31
It's amazing how everyone's managed to evaluate the new patch before it's even been released.

you can judge something that have not beeing fixed for example :D nobody is talking about vanguard or melee changes cause we can't know it..

Whalys
25th Feb 2015, 14:37
what's the difference to play with casual players or play with in game friends without voice chat? There aren't differences imo (other than the fun of playing with someone that you "know"), so I don't see how it can be fair. "tend to operate well togheter".. maybe if you play with the same people very often, but for example I play with many different people and without voice chat is not different than play with casual players.

the different is:
u know each other better than randoms. means u can play better as a team.
also u know ur mates "can" play, or dont afk, leave etc.

injiau
25th Feb 2015, 14:39
Please add a 5v5 feature with the private games and fix "FLASHPOINT".

And you will see an OCE league/ladder happening, thanks :)

Sasha_Vykos
25th Feb 2015, 14:40
the different is:
u know each other better as randoms. means u can play better as a team.
also u know ur mates "can" play, or dont afk, leave etc.

not convinced.. but it is a valid argumentation.

btw I'm happy we can't see our mmr anymore.

FireWorks_
25th Feb 2015, 14:46
Woopieee gameplay changes.. Cant wait to play them to actually judge.

But I am pretty disappointed in what is not written. The new scoreboard is still there?

The Scoreboard was a deal breaker for me (and from what I read, others arent too happy either). A scoreboard has to be accessible and understandable in a fraction of a second and it has to allow to play further while doing so. I look at it maybe over a 100 times during a match. The animation has to go, the transparancy should be increased a lot and most importantly make the information intuitive and fast understandable again instead cluttering it up with pictures and breaking it in the middle with what not.

I havent read a word from Corey about the scoreboard changes. Is the health topic an intended gameplay change or just something to be changed in the next iteration? If it's intended, can we speak about it again please?


Also no word on the broken achievements that are unobtainable for almost 3 months now.

Lots of other stuff from the past, which should be handled but I guess this is the next step after releasing this content stuff.

_Kine_
25th Feb 2015, 14:49
Prophet

Disabling Curse

Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds (was 25)



Disabling Curse will still be underused.
Increase area denial duration or Status Debuff duration.
Adding slowed melee attack speed could be awesome too.
Until then Hex / Draining is still cookie cutter loadout.

ApollosBow
25th Feb 2015, 14:58
Turel would not be pleased...

Also Disabling Curse needs 15s cooldown if to be considered over higher damaging abilities.

NomzNomz
25th Feb 2015, 15:00
Withdrawal symptoms... Need... Vanguard fix.. D:

lucinvampire
25th Feb 2015, 15:07
Are respawns in flashpoint fixed?

In a way I kinda hope they haven't as I quite like the "Flashpoint Scrum Down" at the start of a match :lol: ...the respawns can be annoying though.

Halpachino
25th Feb 2015, 15:10
why the hell did you nerf groundslam it was not that quick of an animation to begin with plus ya had to wait for the charge animation to stop and their is global cooldown when you use jump.
Also the fact that people get up from knockdown faster now was a nerf to the combo itself .
I just hope i can still pull off the shockwave charge combo

--Ram--
25th Feb 2015, 15:12
not convinced.. but it is a valid argumentation.

The main reason parties are good is because if know a player is a spud you can not party with them. Having four even half decent players is usually enough to crush a game in, because solo queue teams tend to have 1-2 dead weight players who feed and contribute almost nothing.

SirSleepALot
25th Feb 2015, 15:14
Matchmaking will no longer place you into a game with a massive score disparity

What does this mean? I can see more than one situation.

- So if the score is 10-1 in one round, the losing team, in theory is destined to lose. I mean, if you can't kill the opponents in 4 players, will you have more success in 3?
- If a team is losing one round with a massive score disparity, will new player join the next round? Because it will also record as a loss for them.

Question.

Wouldn't be easier to do the following?

If a player joins a game with a massive score disparity and his team loses the game, then that loss will not be added to his statistics (win rate). I mean, isn't this the big problem? People leaving matches like these because they will end up in damaging their statistics? Keep the gold and the experience but no loss in statistics for those who join in massive score disparity games.

Keeping the games empty will result in even greater disparity, all team leaving etc.

Just my two cents.

iHeadshot
25th Feb 2015, 15:19
The system should be very simple as to restrain someone that left a match for 5~10 minutes from playing...

If an abandon player leaves 20 matches in a row, then should be restrained by a day or something.

It is this simple..

Ygdrasel
25th Feb 2015, 15:22
You just need to get used to the new scoreboard... Seeing when someone is almost dead with the old version is a disadvantage for the player trying to heal himself (you don't see anyone HP state in other games...)

Wouldn't it make sense then to just remove HP from the old scoreboard?

SirSleepALot
25th Feb 2015, 15:23
The system should be very simple as to restrain someone that left a match for 5~10 minutes from playing...

If an abandon player leaves 20 matches in a row, then should be restrained by a day or something.

Not quite true. What if I play with 3 lousy players and don't enjoy the game at all? I have to stay in game to suffer another 15 minutes?

I'm in favour of bans but only if the game will allow a casual and ranked gaming system so bans would apply to the last.

ApollosBow
25th Feb 2015, 15:28
In a way I kinda hope they haven't as I quite like the "Flashpoint Scrum Down" at the start of a match :lol: ...the respawns can be annoying though.

Ye its pretty nerve racking looking at that Tyrant right next to you chillen has the timer counts down, my eyes are always fully open.

Saikocat
25th Feb 2015, 15:28
We're back online now!

iHeadshot
25th Feb 2015, 15:30
Well, leave and wait 5 minutes, there are not always the top players in the world on your side and it makes you a leaver if u decide to leave making your team get probably a loss.

LOFO1993
25th Feb 2015, 15:32
Can we please get information on new attack values?

+1

FireWorks_
25th Feb 2015, 15:32
You just need to get used to the new scoreboard... Seeing when someone is almost dead with the old version is a disadvantage for the player trying to heal himself (you don't see anyone HP state in other games...)

You played the wrong games. The visibility of the health is gameplay factor that a lot of different games play around with. You just dont see it in your average booom headshot shooter...

While the health is a debatable gamedesign choice, other things of the board are not:
Animation is a no go.
Clutter is a no go.
Lacking transparency is a no go.
Not even mentioning that it is hard to comprehend the info in a split second cause you gotta search for the info in narrow columns.

FireWorks_
25th Feb 2015, 15:34
We're back online now!

Ahm... Did you enable the client download for us? I still havent received a patch and it doesnt download on startup... Ingame I just get "Wrong Build"

Khalith
25th Feb 2015, 15:34
Vampire Movement

Movement speeds increased by roughly 5% for all vampires
Acceleration rate increased for all vampires (change directions more quickly)
Dodge speed bonus reduced to 105%/100%/95% (was 115%/105%/100%)




GLEE

THANK YOU! I love you for this. No more attack rolling to get around!


Ahm... Did you enable the client download for us? I still havent received a patch and it doesnt download on startup... Ingame I just get "Wrong Build"

I am having the same issue.

iHeadshot
25th Feb 2015, 15:34
I do play FPS games and you don't see the adversary HP state all the time you want. Maybe you are playing a different type of game...

And I don't say the new scoreboard is awesome I am stating something that I think it is not correct imo.

Saikocat
25th Feb 2015, 15:40
Ahm... Did you enable the client download for us? I still havent received a patch and it doesnt download on startup... Ingame I just get "Wrong Build"

Can you try restarting Steam to see if it triggers the download for you? The build number (top left corner of the main menu) ends in 780

Khalith
25th Feb 2015, 15:44
Can you try restarting Steam to see if it triggers the download for you? The build number (top left corner of the main menu) ends in 780

I tried that just now, didn't work. Would a clean install fix it? Or is it something that can be done without it?

FireWorks_
25th Feb 2015, 15:45
Can you try restarting Steam to see if it triggers the download for you? The build number (top left corner of the main menu) ends in 780

Done already, didnt help.

But as I write this, the auto download started, thanks :)

Khalith
25th Feb 2015, 15:50
Done already, didnt help.

But as I write this, the auto download started, thanks :)

Still nothing for me, it won't patch.

Edit: There we go, it just started.

Saikocat
25th Feb 2015, 15:50
It's prompting the download a little slower for some, not sure if it's an issue on Steam side perhaps. Maybe try restarting your PC just in case that helps, but we're checking into it.

RazielWarmonic
25th Feb 2015, 15:59
Let it be known that today is the day roll melee died, and all the comp players cried out in despair.
Well all of Psyonix knows how I feel about this topic, but I don't think this is the correct solution. We want a "skill based"/player learned mechanic (something like strafe jumping in Quake) and upping speed seems... Silly.

Alas I digress, I have not played the patch yet but I do not like those numbers and what I am seeing.

EDIT: Played around in a private matched, timed some stuff out, dodge melee is still faster. :thumb:

Hixlysss
25th Feb 2015, 16:33
people complaining about the speed perk getting nerfed, cmon guys i've watched and had humans EASILY just out run me with that perk.

Khalith
25th Feb 2015, 16:39
EDIT: Played around in a private matched, timed some stuff out, dodge melee is still faster. :thumb:

Yup, but not by very much, there is a very small difference between just straight running and dodge rolling across the map now. I will still dodge roll in combat, but I don't feel compelled to do it constantly to go across the map anymore.

Up the movement speed a little more Psyonix! You're so close to finally getting rid of the stupid melee roll thing entirely for crossing the map, little bit more and it will be perfect. :thumb:

RazielWarmonic
25th Feb 2015, 16:49
Up the movement speed a little more Psyonix! You're so close to finally getting rid of the stupid melee roll thing entirely for crossing the map, little bit more and it will be perfect. :thumb:

They need to find a way to replace it first that isn't just running before they do away with it.

Garfild_ru
25th Feb 2015, 16:58
http://nosgoth.ru/1411-update-nosgoth-25-02-2015/
Russian translation
Русский перевод

Psyonix_Corey
25th Feb 2015, 16:59
Didn't want to explicitly kill melee rolling but wanted to make it less mandatory as we search for alternatives in the "skill-based movement" space.

Tyrant changes - we know he is problematic at high MMR for some of you but that's not the only segment we have to balance for. We're still evaluating ways to improve him in high level play without adversely affecting other skill brackets. Our data and experience shows that a few skills in particular cause inordinate problems and frustration for new / low skill players, the Charge->Ground Slam combo being a key problem area. Also don't discount him being more functional in melee with the changes today.

FireWorks - I haven't commented much on Scoreboard because it was handled by the Montreal team and I was told they were going to post replies in the main thread on general discussion as to their plans for improving it based on feedback. I can say neither our team nor the Montreal team viewed scoreboard health checking as a good game mechanic or one that should exist in competitive play. I would agree with most comments about the animation, etc.

PencileyePirate
25th Feb 2015, 17:00
Gotta say ... haven't tried Vanguard yet, as the patch download is finishing right now, but these vampire melee & balance changes sound great (particularly movement speed and melee timing.)

edit: The vampire changes actually don't feel good in-game. It seems too easy to land hits. Maybe kill auto-aim?

Hixlysss
25th Feb 2015, 17:16
Huh, I haven't gotten notified about any patch downloading yet. I try to play and it just says my version is incompatible.

Saikocat
25th Feb 2015, 17:18
If anyone is still having issues getting Steam to prompt your download, try forcing your cache files to verify.


In Steam, right-click on Nosgoth
Go to Properties
Go to the "Local Files" tab
Click on "Verify Integrity Of Game Cache"
Let Steam download and verify your files


http://i.imgur.com/sN4THvp.png

Hixlysss
25th Feb 2015, 17:19
I tried that and just finished reinstalling.

snejjjj
25th Feb 2015, 17:20
Changes coming in the future patches: Perks have been removed due to how useless they are.

word

Necro71
25th Feb 2015, 17:23
Didn't want to explicitly kill melee rolling but wanted to make it less mandatory as we search for alternatives in the "skill-based movement" space.

Tyrant changes - we know he is problematic at high MMR for some of you but that's not the only segment we have to balance for. We're still evaluating ways to improve him in high level play without adversely affecting other skill brackets. Our data and experience shows that a few skills in particular cause inordinate problems and frustration for new / low skill players, the Charge->Ground Slam combo being a key problem area. Also don't discount him being more functional in melee with the changes today.

FireWorks - I haven't commented much on Scoreboard because it was handled by the Montreal team and I was told they were going to post replies in the main thread on general discussion as to their plans for improving it based on feedback. I can say neither our team nor the Montreal team viewed scoreboard health checking as a good game mechanic or one that should exist in competitive play. I would agree with most comments about the animation, etc.

What is frustrating for new players and not only them is ENRAGE+Charge+ Ground Slam. Enrage is problem here.

Varulven
25th Feb 2015, 17:43
If anyone is still having issues getting Steam to prompt your download, try forcing your cache files to verify.


In Steam, right-click on Nosgoth
Go to Properties
Go to the "Local Files" tab
Click on "Verify Integrity Of Game Cache"
Let Steam download and verify your files


http://i.imgur.com/sN4THvp.png

Didn't help in my case :/

Edit: Download started now :)

LorenCole
25th Feb 2015, 18:00
Because they should never be able to outrun a vampire or even rival them for move speed. It was a needed change.

Really?

Only a very skilled player could outrun a vampire with Fleet Footed. Have you noticed that if someone hits you one time, only one time with a claw, you're screwed because they slow you down?

A perfect change could have been only increasing vampires' speed, but not nerfing the perks.

...and most of all, you killed the Tyrant again. A Vanguard do more damage than a big angry Tyrant.



What does this mean? I can see more than one situation.

- So if the score is 10-1 in one round, the losing team, in theory is destined to lose. I mean, if you can't kill the opponents in 4 players, will you have more success in 3?
- If a team is losing one round with a massive score disparity, will new player join the next round? Because it will also record as a loss for them.

Question.

Wouldn't be easier to do the following?

If a player joins a game with a massive score disparity and his team loses the game, then that loss will not be added to his statistics (win rate). I mean, isn't this the big problem? People leaving matches like these because they will end up in damaging their statistics? Keep the gold and the experience but no loss in statistics for those who join in massive score disparity games.

Keeping the games empty will result in even greater disparity, all team leaving etc.

Just my two cents.

I almost forgot... this guy is smart. Hire him.

Vampmaster
25th Feb 2015, 18:08
Didn't want to explicitly kill melee rolling but wanted to make it less mandatory as we search for alternatives in the "skill-based movement" space.

Tyrant changes - we know he is problematic at high MMR for some of you but that's not the only segment we have to balance for. We're still evaluating ways to improve him in high level play without adversely affecting other skill brackets. Our data and experience shows that a few skills in particular cause inordinate problems and frustration for new / low skill players, the Charge->Ground Slam combo being a key problem area. Also don't discount him being more functional in melee with the changes today.

FireWorks - I haven't commented much on Scoreboard because it was handled by the Montreal team and I was told they were going to post replies in the main thread on general discussion as to their plans for improving it based on feedback. I can say neither our team nor the Montreal team viewed scoreboard health checking as a good game mechanic or one that should exist in competitive play. I would agree with most comments about the animation, etc.

He needs an alternative to charge/jump that isn't so hit and miss. New players need weaker skills that are easy to use and then they trade them up for skills that are more powerful, but harder to use as they become more experienced.

--Ram--
25th Feb 2015, 18:18
Really?
Only a very skilled player could outrun a vampire with Fleet Footed. Have you noticed that if someone hits you one time, only one time with a claw, you're screwed because they slow you down?


Yes really.

I know that vamps can eventually catch up, and I know that hit will slow them down. However with a small head start and fleet footed you can't get that 1 hit to slow them down without chasing them across the map. Very often you are forced to give up the chase entirely or you risk being killed by respawns. A rookie that doesn't dodge cancel may never be able to catch a guy at all.

From the perspective of the guy using fleet footed it just feels stupid and cheap, I laugh myself silly doing it sometimes but its not good for the game. Vampires are melee only and should have a decisive edge in terms of mobility and agility. Humans being able to run 95% as fast as them was ridiculous.

After playing a few games and testing fleet footed in a private lobby I still think that vampire move speed is underdone. With only a very small head start (about 2 swipes worth) using vanguard and fleet footed I had a deciever chase me across 1/3 of the map using melee cancel before he could land a hit.

ApollosBow
25th Feb 2015, 18:31
I have to agree with the fleet footed nerf, the fact that the human could outrun a vampire so easily if a few feet apart didn't look good.

FireWorks_
25th Feb 2015, 18:34
Didn't want to explicitly kill melee rolling but wanted to make it less mandatory as we search for alternatives in the "skill-based movement" space.

Tyrant changes - we know he is problematic at high MMR for some of you but that's not the only segment we have to balance for. We're still evaluating ways to improve him in high level play without adversely affecting other skill brackets. Our data and experience shows that a few skills in particular cause inordinate problems and frustration for new / low skill players, the Charge->Ground Slam combo being a key problem area. Also don't discount him being more functional in melee with the changes today.

FireWorks - I haven't commented much on Scoreboard because it was handled by the Montreal team and I was told they were going to post replies in the main thread on general discussion as to their plans for improving it based on feedback. I can say neither our team nor the Montreal team viewed scoreboard health checking as a good game mechanic or one that should exist in competitive play. I would agree with most comments about the animation, etc.

How I interprete your words is that the enemy health visibility via scoreboard stays dead. This makes me a bit sad as it was one of the outstanding things making Nosgoth relatively unique and enjoyable. A solo player had similar information like a communicating team ("xyz is low").
Checking the scoreboard might not be the best way, but I think you agree that the game benefits from some kind of tell of the enemy health. Having different animations for health would be a way but require line of sight (which is another buff to humans as you get your health chipped if you peak out as vampire).
Knowing if the enemy could heal up or not made a lot of faster engagements. I expect a couple more hesitant decisions and this kinda kills the fun in a past paced action game. Playing these fully set up 4 v 4 fights is something that lead the comp matches to 30mins timelimit already and they are boring as hell to watch. Hope it doesnt translate to the pubs.

Would be nice to get someone of the Montreal team to show up and give us some insight. They did some good work in the past for this project. Would be nice to talk with them over some refinement.

_Kine_
25th Feb 2015, 18:40
Feedback :

1 - Vamp melee mashing is stronk.

2 - Getting killed while waiting on Judgement animation is annoying. It is AoE centered around the player meaning ppl are killing you while you are activating the skill. Feels weird.

3 - Vanguard holds his axe right handed. But projectile curves from left to right. Dunno if it affects anything but rawr.

4 - Recoil on throwing axes ? why ?

LorenCole
25th Feb 2015, 18:56
Very often you are forced to give up the chase entirely or you risk being killed by respawns.

And that was the good strategy to avoid useless deaths. I've seen often people running away WHILE their group was still fighting. So why you have to run after one guy if you can now easly kill 3 humans with your full team?

Not always attack everything that moves is the right choise.

Even when someone, as you said, runs away towards the respawing humans to lure you there and make you riddled, you just wait for all your vampire fellows and try the usual strategy: make panic and kill fast.

And also as I said, if you leave the 20% speed with Fleet Footed and you just give the 5% movement buff to the vampires, you can EASILY claw an escaping guy without too much effort.

Talking about the Tyrant slam. If you have timing and coordination with your group, a bola or an hex shot will do the work.

The REALLY USEFUL balance that in my opinion have to be done the fast you can is the "classes spam".

3-4 Tyrant, 3-4 Summoner, 3-4 Sentinels usually are tremendously OP ( I said "usually" because if players are GOOD players with these classes, here comes the problems)

Halpachino
25th Feb 2015, 21:03
Is it intended to be able to use judgement through iron skin cause 30 percent of the tyrants is like 412 and thats alot of health just to get insta killed on .
Also i dont like the way this skill makes the tyrants racial bonus a disadvantage especially if you use health perks.

Jallford
25th Feb 2015, 21:08
Like the look of most of the changes on (digital) paper. So glad MMR has been addressed, look forward to seeing how it's changed later.

Wolf_the_Legend
25th Feb 2015, 21:32
charged melee nerv intended ?! :scratch: ... don't like it :hmm:

EDIT: btw does this affect charged melee as well:
The travel distance of melee has also been reduced slightly ...

EDIT2: also I don't "feel" when I get hit by an axe ... let the screen shake or what ever but dont let me die without knowing what killed me ... until I see the death screen ofc :/

RainaAudron
25th Feb 2015, 23:19
EDIT2: also I don't "feel" when I get hit by an axe ... let the screen shake or what ever but dont let me die without knowing what killed me ... until I see the death screen off :/

Seconded! Many times I was like, did I just drop dead for no reason? Then I realized it was the axe.

Celeress
26th Feb 2015, 00:11
Perks

Fleet Footed

Sprint Speed bonus reduced to 12% (was 20%)


There goes my Speedy Gonzalez build

Firehex
26th Feb 2015, 00:51
I like MMR changers. Fleet footed nerf is nice too. I don't understand why they nerfed tyrant O__O People ask some buff from him...

puff_ng
26th Feb 2015, 07:50
From what I gather, Tyrant is getting nerfed because new players don't learn not to group together just to get rekt by Charge -> Ground Slam combo.

When I was new, I felt that combo was OP as well because there was no escaping it once you got hit. Then I learnt not to group together too close, maintain sight lines, support teammates, etc.

FireWorks_
26th Feb 2015, 09:50
Is it intended to be able to use judgement through iron skin cause 30 percent of the tyrants is like 412 and thats alot of health just to get insta killed on .
Also i dont like the way this skill makes the tyrants racial bonus a disadvantage especially if you use health perks.

The penetration of evasive skills seems to be to the only reason for judgement, which is already ultra situational.

In most cases (pretty much all) you are better of with other options even if it is only melee. The animation is very long and the window for the insta kill is pretty small compared to what damage another axe would do (or 2 melee hits). Plus all other skills have a stun/stagger that allows for more follow up damage on the target.

It is already inferior to the other slot skills. If they take away the kills on evasion and ignore pain it is the new echolocation.

PencileyePirate
26th Feb 2015, 10:43
I know that I said I liked the vampire melee changes (when I saw the notes) but in game melee / attack-dodge movement feels very dumbed down.

I do not like.

Ysanoire
26th Feb 2015, 11:43
If a player joins a game with a massive score disparity and his team loses the game, then that loss will not be added to his statistics (win rate). I mean, isn't this the big problem? People leaving matches like these because they will end up in damaging their statistics?

Yes, I have suggested this in the past too, and I still think it would help quite a bit. As much as I try to not care about stats, I can't help having this vague feeling of having my honour besmirched when I lose, so I'm likely to leave a match I joined in the middle if defeat is certain. I think people would be a bit more inclined to stay in a match in progress if that loss didn't count.

Obisher
26th Feb 2015, 13:56
When I was changing key bindings, I noticed something called "Ping" (LCTRL by default), but currently it does nothing. Can we get more info on that please? :D

RazielWarmonic
26th Feb 2015, 17:17
Only a very skilled player could outrun a vampire with Fleet Footed.

No "skilled" player uses Fleet Footed, it's one of the worst perks as Vampire even pre-nerf could catch up to you without a problem. In my experience, it may have benefited 1 or 2 people for one time in an entire match where Deadeye or Tinkerer probably could have benefited them more.

HexMee
26th Feb 2015, 17:41
Rant time! (hey, it's positive! ^^)

What I didn't like:
Weapon spread changes. Spread is pure RNG, RNG is one of the stupidest ways to make something weaker in a game. This kinda ties in with last patch's overall nerf to prophet pistols (+10% spread) - this is a horrible way to deal with ranged attacks being overpowering (were they really?) instead you could have made range damage falloff 10% stronger, this is consistent and not based on stupid RNG.

Nerfing perks/item stats overall. Stats and perks feel underwhelming as they are, I'd love to see the bonuses and malusses they bring doubled or even trippled, instead you tuned some down all the way into the ground :(

No scoreboard fix, I asume it will come sooner or later.

What I really liked:
Vanguard felt fun to play with AND against, summoner release was a nightmare with the spamming of hellstrikes and minions but Vanguard didn't really bring any negativity in terms of making the game less fun.

Vampire movementspeed/attackspeed/damage changes. Good god you outdid yourselves here, vamps feel amazingly good to fight with now, super fluid and awesome and from what I can tell the numbers are perfect now.

People whined quite a lot about tyrant being too weak in high level play, personally I was about to drop tyrant completely and not even try anymore a week ago, then this patch happened.
Tyrant now charges faster (thanks movementspeed change!). Enrage has more impact on the movementspeed and you actually feel it. The faster attack speed makes him a lot more nimble and gave him a lot more consistent damage output. I'm now contemplating switching to only playing Tyrant, well done guys! The patch indirectly buffed him to the spot where he needed to be.

Lobby countdown stops when someone leaves! So good.

Cutting it short here, lots of small things that I loved with this patch that I can't think of right now but overall playing the game as it is now feels a lot better than it did before.

riccetto80
26th Feb 2015, 19:10
GG for the aim assist for vanguard... how can you give a so powerful gun and give also the aim assist? you dont need to shoot carefull, is enough to "shoot around the target" to hit him, not only, can also shoot very very far, ok give a powerful gun, but make for him impossible shoot someone at +20 meter? no, can shoot to infinite without issue almost...

you see people running around shooting axes like hunter or scout shoot arrows... com on...


And the changes to speed of vampire sucks, now i cannot hit anything at close range because my vamp is too fast and travel too many distance during the meele... at least the deceiver is useless now in close range meele, big part of meele just miss the target.

i think the people who choose this changes are the same who "balance" siege mode... lol
i like this mode but is so buggy and unbalanced, a single player can alone cap the point almost at the same speed 3 or 4 can cap the point... often you spawn in the middle of a fight, or you spawn exactly close to your friend on point so often is so easy to cap thanks to idiotic spawn...

i think this game already turn to "casual" gamer, with summoner, who broke the rule "vamp melee, human ranged" a vamp who can shoot from distance and vanguard, now turn even more to casual gamers with vanguard a tank who dont need at all good aim to hit the target.

next patch the aim assist will be extend also to phophet maybe, lol.

i dont like at all the direction this game start to take.

Ygdrasel
26th Feb 2015, 22:56
i think this game already turn to "casual" gamer

It's a good thing "casual gamer" is a term that means utterly nothing then. Also the vanguard doesn't even have a gun.

And "vamp melee, human ranged" is still the rule...

Aggggh
27th Feb 2015, 02:50
GG for the aim assist for vanguard... how can you give a so powerful gun and give also the aim assist? you dont need to shoot carefull, is enough to "shoot around the target" to hit him, not only, can also shoot very very far, ok give a powerful gun, but make for him impossible shoot someone at +20 meter? no, can shoot to infinite without issue almost...

you see people running around shooting axes like hunter or scout shoot arrows... com on...


And the changes to speed of vampire sucks, now i cannot hit anything at close range because my vamp is too fast and travel too many distance during the meele... at least the deceiver is useless now in close range meele, big part of meele just miss the target.

i think the people who choose this changes are the same who "balance" siege mode... lol
i like this mode but is so buggy and unbalanced, a single player can alone cap the point almost at the same speed 3 or 4 can cap the point... often you spawn in the middle of a fight, or you spawn exactly close to your friend on point so often is so easy to cap thanks to idiotic spawn...

i think this game already turn to "casual" gamer, with summoner, who broke the rule "vamp melee, human ranged" a vamp who can shoot from distance and vanguard, now turn even more to casual gamers with vanguard a tank who dont need at all good aim to hit the target.

next patch the aim assist will be extend also to phophet maybe, lol.

i dont like at all the direction this game start to take.

http://i.imgur.com/EeAAykG.jpg

_Kine_
27th Feb 2015, 03:20
Matchmaking


Matchmaking will no longer place you into a game with a massive score disparity


http://i.imgur.com/fU47aHQ.jpg

_Kine_
27th Feb 2015, 06:33
Bug Fixes

Player MMR is no longer visible in the log


Doesn't alter the fact that imbalanced teams is a game feature. Even after scrambling between matches we still get one sided games. Punitive measures to discourage rage quitting is reactive. Preventing them from happening in the first place is better. Don't need logs as ammo for more whining, suffering through badly lopsided matches is already sufficient. Properly distributing the 8 players between the 2 teams would go a long way to minimizing people quitting matches and eventually Nosgoth.

I don't need MMR or logs to know how uneven the team was in any match. Scoreboard tells the same story more accurately.

- Scramble teams fairly using more accurate indices on contribution
- Pause the match before scores snowball beyond playable
- Split the playerbase into 3 large pools, those who can play against pros, those who can't and the rest of us in-between

Video of that hotjoin match. As stated, post match scoreboard is good enough an indicator.

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