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Equanimityjohn
19th Feb 2015, 23:18
I know that the hit registration of skills like Backstab and/or Infect are widely recognized as problematic, but what I'd like to talk about is the registration of basic attacks in general, especially charged basic attacks. I'm sure we've all experienced this: You're charging up a full basic attack as a vampire and a human player is about half the distance of the charged attack's maximum range away from you. They do not dodge by any means, maybe just moving around without rolling or sprinting, and yet somehow your charged attack rolls right off of them even when it is aligned well. This is just one example of the problem I'm speaking of. This problem isn't too apparent, if at all apparent, on classes like Reaver and Deceiver if you do not use charged basic attacks, however this problem is glaring on Tyrant, even if you use no charged attacks. Tyrant particularly has very terrible charged and non-charged basic attack registry. I don't know the technicalities of what can be done to improve the hit registration and/or aim assistance (there is a fine line there obviously) of all of the charged basic attacks of all of the vampires, and of the basic attacks in general of the Tyrant, but I feel like, since it was doable for the summoner (who has great detection as far as I can tell, but still suffers from the same problems as all vampires with their charged attacks sometimes) it should be further doable with some of the older vampire classes, or just in general between them all. I'd imagine, although it may seem silly and there is much more to the meta than this, this added consistency to vampire attacks would help balance them with humans ever so slightly more within the meta.

TheDreamcrusher
19th Feb 2015, 23:42
The Tyrant's melee discrepancies have been recognized and Psyonix is working on a new implementation, possibly to make his fists strike in a very small area of effect.

Razaiim
20th Feb 2015, 03:52
Here's how I see it: Part of the Tyrants issue is the poor lateral motion of his attacks. They're very short and don't cross his center line very well, and that over hand smash rarely hits. All 4 other vampires have very sweeping attacks and I don't notice the same issues with them.

The deceiver as I have mentioned many times now is brutal and very ghosty. Every engagement is a toss up between will I land my attacks or will I literally pass directly through the opponent doing no damage.

TendrilSavant
20th Feb 2015, 05:33
The Tyrant's melee discrepancies have been recognized and Psyonix is working on a new implementation, possibly to make his fists strike in a very small area of effect.
Adding AoE to Tyrant melee was mentioned awhile ago, but never implemented. My guess is that it was too strong in testing. The other choice that was mentioned was to adjust Tyrants animations, but seeing as how that's a lot of work it's probably been put low on priority lists.

I think the real issue with Tyrant melee is that he seems to have a turn rate cap on his melee, as shown below.

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When you make quick turns while swinging, his hits seem to land just shy of where you are aiming; this also happens with normal attacks but to a lesser degree. This makes circle strafing around a Tyrant all the more effective. It's possible to compensate for this, but because most melee from other vampires don't work the same way Tyrant just feels off to most people.


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By comparison, The Deceiver's melee always follows where you move your mouse. Giving you more precision. This is also true with Sentinel and most of Reaver's attacks. The Reaver's first standard melee and his first charged melee seem to suffer from this turn cap though. I haven't tested Summoner as much but it seems like all her attacks follow your aim pretty well (issues with her hit detection might be due to her shorter arms and more reserved attack animations).

I'm not sure why there's a turn cap for Tyrant but my guesses are:

That a turn cap was added to Tyrant's melee early in development, most likely when melee tracked better, and forgotten about.
Perhaps his animations where slowed down in the code, affecting how they play out.
Or perhaps his animations just work differently.

--Ram--
20th Feb 2015, 05:56
I don't think the problem has much to do with people missing because of the attacks feeling different. Even if that is the case it is a relatively minor problem, and one that players can solve themselves by becoming accustomed to the class. The real problem is that you hit a guy perfectly with an attack and sometimes it won't register. Plain and simple. It is a big problem and one that has turned several of my friends off the game entirely.

Brackstone17
20th Feb 2015, 06:27
The most common issue I see apart from attacks just not registering, is that it often seems like making any contact with human player model before, or even during, the attack animation can make things go really screwy. Lots of bouncing off or around the person you are trying to hit, and other times, your attack is purely stationary, even on lunging moves like backstabs or charged attacks.

Another issue is a thing I've noticed with deceiver, where he'll seemingly auto target someone with his backstab and do all kinds of crazy spins, rather than lunging forward. This is usually when you aim at one target, but another is close by, but I've seen it happen when humans I try to backstab roll behind me.

I'm really not sure if all these issues are related, but they're all really annoying. I have to wonder how much more effective tyrant and deceiver would be with reliable melee attacks.

ApollosBow
20th Feb 2015, 06:45
Hope they patch the Tyrant hit registration sooner than later, went back to him recently and happens at least 2 or 3 times in a match finishing off the last guy where It looks like my attack went straight through the person, but it didn't, then I die.

I thought this was lag, apparently not :( .