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View Full Version : Requests for Spectator Mode Going Forward



Captainschism
19th Feb 2015, 22:16
Hey Devs,

I know that spectator has been just released today and that it's only been up and live for a couple of hours so I'm going to try to keep this as knee-jerk free as possible, but I'd like to offer some observations that both I have and Petire have shared with one another that we would see not only as spectators but also as potential shoutcasters for Nosgoth going forward.

- First off, when shifting through different camera modes via the space bar, I understand that explaining the difference between the views is necessary, but it need not take up as much space as it does. The square that that appears at the top left with the different views toggled out should be removed entirely, or at the very least, be an opt-in. I didn't see an option to turn this off within the in-game settings while I was spectating.

- Of the options to spectate, Free Mode is pretty stable and Locked Cam works really well as far as offering the perspective necessary to capture the action. What I would ask for on this end is to supplement it a little further, specifically the locked camera with middle-mouse wheel scrolling. One of the things that I would like to see is the ability to quickly scroll out and maybe catch that Tyrant that's charging at an Alchemist, or watch the Hunter chasing down a Reaver for that last second kill. Allowing for a zoom out with mouse scrolling will be a great way to offer this to spectators and casters alike.

- I don't feel Player Perspective view is a real necessity in the game. It seems to be more of a bell and whistle than something that's really required for functionality. Right now, in trying it out I seem to be stuck in the torso of a Summoner, sort of like the main villain from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that wasn't Shredder. I can see why people would want it in, as perspective can increase the action felt to really bring this to the next level, but I would like to see that at least zoomed out a little. A proper crosshair may help as well. Again, I kind of feel that locked camera mode is a little bit better at achieving this.

- Underneath where it has "PRESS SPACE TO CHANGE VIEW", please include a small scoreboard summary showing player name, a frame of the class they are playing, K/D/A and MAYBE Damage. Healing and Executions can be seen through the main score that can still be tabbed to like a normal scoreboard, so it doesn't really need a place on the summary at the bottom. This can really allow for a faster, and more pressed upon experience and if the same type of dynamic summary is shown like with the older scoreboard that filled up a player's portrait with red the closer they got to dying, it can provide the perspective that may be missed if someone is further away from the action and can't be found quickly enough. (Really, this would serve as a key point for a caster to quickly tab through the players and find where the action is if someone gets picked off).

- The Scoreboard should be a quick portrait instead of a roll out, particularly for casters to get the summary as fast as they can. While you can quickly see whomever is in first or second place, that fourth place person takes a second to roll out and that can be some time missed on action when it's added up with games upon games of spectating. I'm not sure if I caught the portraits filling up based on damage taken (if that is the case, then great! Keep it that way. If not, please implement).

- PLEASE, and this is a must upon musts beyond anything else, please implement both NAMES OF PLAYERS over the character they are, and either a GREEN or RED health bar so that we can see if they are making a last second ditch effort to run from vampires with one health or if they are totally dominating the vampires and are taking next to no damage. This would add a lot of dynamic to casting and again, make it seem like the pressure is on to catch every moment, death and bit of damage caught. This will also allow casters to be able to make a little bit of prediction as the game goes on. Such as, if that Sentinel got chipped for half their health, you can predict that an engagement is going to be another few seconds away as opposed to that more imminent feel. Or, if that Scout that got picked up from the Sentinel or thrown by a Tyrant has to stay out of the fight now to stay alive. Information like that offers a lot to casters and spectators to make it a more entertaining experience.

- Along with the above point, when in Locked Cam please include the same summary that a player normally has in their game, meaning if I'm getting any sort of player's perspective please show me their Health, Skills and the Cooldowns related to those skills. I'm not concerned with ammo counts for now as that's a contrivance that only a few casters would pick up on to say "That Hunter killed the Reaver with his last shot!"

- Permanently throughout the game display the portraits of the teams on either side of the screen. This goes for all camera modes, so that we can have an idea of who is playing what class and their relative health at all times. It would be literally taking the normal gameplay screen and just including the opposite team's values, classes and names. Just add three small circles to show the cooldowns of abilities so again, the casters can gauge when an engagement is going down. That way we can see all at once, "Okay the Tyrant jump is ready and off cooldown, the Reaver's Choking Haze is primed to follow through and the Summoner is ready to zone out the team and send her summons to clean up."

- I'm not sure what exactly to do about this next part, but the map has to be slightly updated as well. Right now, Spectators in map have the option of seeing 8 completely identical icons. This doesn't really do much to tell which class or faction is which. Maybe if the Humans were displayed as a small helmet and the vampires were displayed as fangs? This is a minor contrivance in comparison, but it just offers more information when we tab to map.

Now, I understand that these are my opinions expressed and mine only, so you're only getting the sourcing from one person airing grievances right now, but I hope to have outlined the major and slightly more minor points here in as concise a fashion as I could. I will be putting up Screenshots as soon as I have them so that I can further clarify the requests being made. I am also fully aware that this was not the work of Psyonix, but the work of Square Montreal, and while it has been increased from 0% information on Spectate to about 30% information on Spectate, there is certainly a bit more to do going forward. This is definitely a big jump forward, and I also understand that it's being restricted to private lobbies right now both for the sake of functionality and the sake of testing to limit the size and really zero in on what needs to be done. I personally, am not too disappointed in what I'm seeing because before I could see next to nothing and I hope to see what other strides can be taken to move this forward. If there is any way I can more directly express my suggestions and feelings on spectate, please let me know and I'll be more than happy to discuss those points further.

Thanks,
Slippers

PS: Can't wait to actually cast this for real.

Addition:

Talking with Chrizor, we came up with this one:

- Adding in fixed camera angles that can be customized per map by the user, allow these camera angle to then be bound to keys so that they can be quickly shuffled through in Freecam. That way, if we want to see a fight happening in a particular area, we can quickly snap to that scene to get a really great overhead shot and capture all of the action for everyone, as opposed to from just one player's perspective. Like imagine on Freeport, if I could set a custom point at the top of the dockhouse, on top of the crane and at the top of the small bridge that feeds into it. And if I could set keybinds of 1, 2, and 3 to just snap back and forth between those angles.

Petire
19th Feb 2015, 22:43
I tend to agree with nearly every stated here, I would really like to see if maybe during some casts of Nosgoth games if some people could also give their ideas about what they would like to change and maybe get some interaction from the people who are coming up with the ideas that are currently in spectator mode and why some stuff was left out.

One thing I know is a small detail but I would like to see a list of people who are spectating the game for players so they are able to see who is actually in the spectator slot for competitive reasons this makes admining and plenty of other possible problems easier to solve

Beyond that I simply cannot wait to actually get out and cast some games.

chriZor
19th Feb 2015, 22:54
Good post slippers/petire!

in addition i would like to have this glowing models like teammates on the map, so you could see those players in buildings or behind walls.

greets

Equanimityjohn
19th Feb 2015, 23:06
Great post. +1

Ysanoire
19th Feb 2015, 23:24
- I don't feel Player Perspective view is a real necessity in the game. It seems to be more of a bell and whistle than something that's really required for functionality. Right now, in trying it out I seem to be stuck in the torso of a Summoner, sort of like the main villain from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that wasn't Shredder. I can see why people would want it in, as perspective can increase the action felt to really bring this to the next level, but I would like to see that at least zoomed out a little. A proper crosshair may help as well. Again, I kind of feel that locked camera mode is a little bit better at achieving this.


Personally I find the player perspective really interesting and useful; I think what you're describing is a bug, did it also fail to turn in the right direction? I have one archived game where it looks normal (from behind the player model) and one game where it's in a weird spot inside the model and doesn't turn properly.

Crosshair yes ples.

RazielWarmonic
20th Feb 2015, 00:45
+1.

Captainschism
20th Feb 2015, 00:47
Personally I find the player perspective really interesting and useful; I think what you're describing is a bug, did it also fail to turn in the right direction? I have one archived game where it looks normal (from behind the player model) and one game where it's in a weird spot inside the model and doesn't turn properly.

Crosshair yes ples.

It's certainly possible it may have been a bug for me, as is to be expected when a patch is rolled out. It didn't fail to turn in the right direction however, I was literally just stuck in the torso.

PencileyePirate
20th Feb 2015, 02:21
I think we need spectator mode for public games.

Captainschism
20th Feb 2015, 03:31
I think we need spectator mode for public games.

Unfortunately, it feels that for the amount of testing and tweaking that needs to be done, I personally am happy that this is limited right now to private matches. I certainly understand the want and need for it to go for public games as soon as possible, but for right now, it's best to keep it limited. At least until everything is hammered out. I'm sure it'll go public.

Petire
20th Feb 2015, 03:32
I think we need spectator mode for public games.

I agree but I would also like to see this but I would like to see a more useful and well done spectator mode first

Psyonix_Corey
20th Feb 2015, 03:34
Good post - the Spectator mode, along with the new Scoreboard UI, was done by the Montreal team that did Noscam - will make sure they've seen this thread.

Petire
20th Feb 2015, 03:41
Good post - the Spectator mode, along with the new Scoreboard UI, was done by the Montreal team that did Noscam - will make sure they've seen this thread.

YAY! Thanks Corey, really appreciate it!

Captainschism
20th Feb 2015, 06:53
Good post slippers/petire!

in addition i would like to have this glowing models like teammates on the map, so you could see those players in buildings or behind walls.

greets

Sorry for missing this one, Chrizor. Would you like to see it as a model that sort of pings or pulses if a unit/character is hidden indoors? Or would you like to see it as, say, if a vampire is hiding on a roof it's a blue outline of the circle on the map, and if they are hidden inside the building it's a red outline instead?

I can imagine that would be a little bit more cluttered moving forward, so I'd like to get a little more clarity to add to the original post so ideas at the bottom are not lost from the summary of ideas at the top.

Add-In: And thank you, Corey for passing this along!

ApollosBow
20th Feb 2015, 07:11
+1

Screwby-Dew
20th Feb 2015, 12:05
- Underneath where it has "PRESS SPACE TO CHANGE VIEW", please include a small scoreboard summary showing player name, a frame of the class they are playing, K/D/A and MAYBE Damage. Healing and Executions can be seen through the main score that can still be tabbed to like a normal scoreboard, so it doesn't really need a place on the summary at the bottom.


I don't think "K/D/A and MAYBE Damage" should be shown in that small scoreboard. As you said the main score can still be tabbed to like a normal scoreboard, so you can still see K/D/A and Damage in the main scoreboard.
In my opinion : player name, a frame of the class they are playing and their HP (like the previous scoreboard) would be enough informations.


Good post slippers/petire!

in addition i would like to have this glowing models like teammates on the map, so you could see those players in buildings or behind walls.

greets

+1

PencileyePirate
20th Feb 2015, 20:37
BTW: human POV mode is broken; the camera positioning is all wonky (usually inside the character model) and no player HUD is visible (crosshair, etc.) despite being explicitly mentioned as a feature in the blog post (http://www.nosgoth.com/blog/spectator-mode-new-scoreboards-and-more).

GenFeelGood
20th Feb 2015, 20:54
How do you access spectator mode, is it only available to private matches or can you jump in and watch any active match?

Da_Wolv
20th Feb 2015, 22:09
1) No Delay:
Why would anyone allow spectators in competitve matches, when a team could insert spies that way?

2) You have to be invited?!
Why not stream the Noscam Data to a separate Server (like in Valve titles), where then Players can connect to and watch?

Captainschism
20th Feb 2015, 23:36
1) No Delay:
Why would anyone allow spectators in competitve matches, when a team could insert spies that way?

2) You have to be invited?!
Why not stream the Noscam Data to a separate Server (like in Valve titles), where then Players can connect to and watch?

Both of these things mentioned are solved via Twitch or another streaming outlet. You can add in a delay via OBS or another streaming program, so this will not be a problem in competitive play, especially when administrators should be able to see and filter who is actually spectating. I would prefer the limit be brought down from 6 spectators to 3 spectators so as to eliminate possibility of "cheating" by that measure.

GenFeelGood:

You spectate by creating a private lobby. There are then two codes at the bottom center, one for players, one for spectators highlight as PM and SPEC then a string of numbers. You would simply input that string with PM-(Numbers) or SPEC-(numbers) and you would be able to spectate the game regardless if it is in progress or just starting in the lobby. For right now, it is restricted to private lobbies but I feel that in the future it will be made available for all games.

PencileyePirate
21st Feb 2015, 19:40
2) You have to be invited?!
Why not stream the Noscam Data to a separate Server (like in Valve titles), where then Players can connect to and watch?

I agree; the lack of easily accessible spectate mode [on both pubs/privates] just defeats the purpose, imo.

If someone has to pre-arrange a spectator slot just so they can stream the match to enable others to spectate ... then something is very wrong.

Captainschism
22nd Feb 2015, 01:27
I agree; the lack of easily accessible spectate mode [on both pubs/privates] just defeats the purpose, imo.

If someone has to pre-arrange a spectator slot just so they can stream the match to enable others to spectate ... then something is very wrong.

It's in testing and it's a controlled environment. There's also a lot to work out so it's best set up the way it is now. Public testing will come in time.

chriZor
7th Apr 2015, 08:37
#push - don't forget this thread

spec-mode still in the same spot

Saikocat
8th May 2015, 10:26
Thanks again for sharing your feedback, guys, I'll definitely be sharing these with the team again.