View Full Version : Sadly Nosgoth is going to die out

18th Feb 2015, 19:20
I honestly believe that this game is going to die out, it feels like a lot of players have abandoned the game (which doesn't surprise me) and the game itself feels empty. The following reasons are probably the cause of this:
The new matchmaking system with it's long search time makes you waste time.
The cheaters/hackers that have recently infested the game, add to this all the leavers and poor game stability (things that should already be corrected or at least trying to be corrected but it seems the devs are too busy releasing payed content).
The player base that are leaving this game (because of the above reasons) and NOT recommending this game to anyone else.
I've seen a lot of games go down because of poor management and/or devs that forget about the player base and focus on payed content. I will not recommend this game in it's current state because it will obviously fail before full release. You should look at succesfull f2p games like Team Fortress 2 (first work on the game, then make money) and take an example.

In closing I would like to mention that in all my years of gaming I have never seen people so anxious to make money off a game still in BETA.
I hope this changes.

18th Feb 2015, 19:31
The cheaters/hackers that have recently infested the game,

This is a big problem today.
We often think that good people are hackers, but since open beta many people appear too good aim and it makes distrust.

The new matchmaking system with it's long search time makes you waste time.

This was new to the last patch. They should not leave it like, you better be waiting in a lobby.

18th Feb 2015, 19:57
I don't think this is an entirely fair assessment.

Understand that Team Fortress 2 was not a free to play game until after it was out for several years, nor was it particularly polished upon release. It was years before weapon unlocks were released for each class and it took Valve years to address many of the blatantly overpowered weapon unlocks that the player base had been complaining about nonstop.

It is a well established practice for free to play games to charge for content during open beta - the steady stream of revenue allows these games to provide a level of content and support they couldn't otherwise. Nosgoth is far more generous than most games as the only content that can only be obtained with money is merely cosmetic. You as a player are free to choose if you want to spend money on the game, enjoy the ride free of charge, or spend your time elsewhere.

You do bring up some valid complaints that need to be addressed, but the devs are in most cases aware of the issues and working on them. Matchmaking has come a long way from were it once was, for example (it got so bad at one point in closed Beta I actually stopped playing until the MMR system came out). The long delays are a more recent issue but the team balance and rate of leavers are better. I would assume that in the future further refinements will continue to improve matchmaking. Realize that adding new content is just as vital as refining the game is to keeping players - it doesn't matter how polished a game is if players quickly get bored with the content.

There is no guarantee that Nosgoth can succeed in the long term; obtaining and maintaining players is always a challenge for any game. But if Nosgoth fails I highly doubt that it will be due to developers ignoring the players or being greedy, because neither has been particularly true.

18th Feb 2015, 20:07
Right now i hate 2 things in this game:
1) Same maps again and again...
2) Long waiting for lobby after new patch..

I hope they gonna release new map soon... People lost interest in summoner quite fast ( right now i see her in games not so often).

Also in last days people tend to leave in mid game too often...Sometimes team lose first round and all of them just leave in second...That is sad..

18th Feb 2015, 20:54
I can not agree with you . Of course there are problems but it will eventually fix MM .The other thing is that there is cheating but not so many as you think as an example in CSGO,Bf3 and 4 where 80% of players using hacks ,the same situation is in Tf2 .With a few new maps and a better MM give this game a big plus in the future. For me this is one of the best f2p games same as War Thunder.

18th Feb 2015, 20:57
They know there's problems with the game, we are all providing feed back, there working on it. Its the Beta, Im guessing that it'll be out of Beta this winter sometime, if the game was still in this state 3-4 months from now I might be worried and saying "this games gonna die!!"...but its early Beta... When the game comes out of Beta there'll be another Marketing injection across all fronts and hopefully with the game in a better state (more maps, tweaked MM, more anti-cheat methods, more features) its appeal sticks.

If you think this game is messy right now have a look over at Halo: MCC , people bought that for what...60? and it didnt work lol couldn't get into a match for weeks, sure the single player campaign worked but who wants that same old same old, people wanted to relive that multiplayer (As far as I know that game is still in a bad way). My point is that this dev team seem to want this game to work, are being very responsive to its community and implementing suggestions while trying to fix the cracks it has.

-Leavers, I cant see a way to fix this, its in other games, minus some gold off them if they have it or disable any booster advantage from effecting them for an hour....but in the end I don't think this will be the game to fix the infamous "Leaver problem".

-Cheaters gonna cheat, Im sure there going to implement some more anti-cheat methods but there will always be a newer hack that some sad bastard out there is willing to pay more so he can have a giggle for a few hours before getting reported so much he's banned.

-Moola, yes they are trying to make money...I even think they should have kept an entry fee to the game, 5 bucks or something, the more money legacy of kain makes the better to me.....o and I suppose the dev's families need to eat, that too.

Nosgoth will never die, each of us is so much more than we once were. Do you not feel
with all your soul how we have become like gods? And as such, are we not
indivisible? As long as a single one of us stands, we are legion...

18th Feb 2015, 21:02
I don't think devs are monetising at the expense of their players, and as stated many times in the past the art design and cosmetic stuff (which is largely what people pay for) is not related to the team who deal with matchmaking, server stuff or game mechanics.

The current matchmaking queue is ridiculous and is putting me off playing. But I know there are tons of new players who are happy as Larry enjoying the game with no wait times. I understand that matchmaking is incredibly difficult to fix to the contentment of everyone.

I doubt it'll die out for the reasons you've listed. Besides even if it dies, undeath goes on and on.

18th Feb 2015, 21:15

says the gaming industry guru ?

18th Feb 2015, 22:53
You should look at succesfull f2p games like Team Fortress 2 (first work on the game, then make money) and take an example.

LOL, i paid for that game and now is free to play, that's is a &%&/&%!! and its a pay 2 win game, too many items can help to the player.

I really like Nosgoth, the only thing I hate it's the balance of the game, too many times i got "new players" in my team and they don't play like a team.

18th Feb 2015, 23:38
CSGO,Bf3 and 4 where 80% of players using hacks ,the same situation is in Tf2


19th Feb 2015, 01:33
...Early beta. /thread

19th Feb 2015, 01:43
As for the number of players you can check it out here http://steamcharts.com/search/?q=nosgoth
The only problem is that it is not continent specific. Those are global numbers.

19th Feb 2015, 07:57
Maps will be added in the future. Honestly i would really love Psyonix to work some more on those existing ones - I like them all, they look cool, but there many glitch spots on them, where u stuck, whre you cant climb etc.

It's true that current MMR destroying the game, that should be fixed long time ago.
There are not that much hax in this game, i played 400h+ and saw obvious hackers only fiew times.
Game need work and interesting mods. Deathmatch is camp fest and flashpoint is good but its getting borring fast and not many players play it.
Game is not pay to win but Psyonix puts to much attention for payable things right now, i'm sure that there are more important things to do right now. Maybe fix achievements alredy? Mancake, Toxic, Tactical Strike does not work for sure, there are plenty that ont work as it suppose so like Terminal Velocity, Get Over Here or Guardian Angel.

19th Feb 2015, 20:27
i'm sure that there are more important things to do right now. Maybe fix achievements alredy?

Meaningless garbage serving only to artificially inflate playtimes and/or give sad people an ego stroke is more important than getting money off their product? I don't follow...

19th Feb 2015, 22:09
The thing that will really kill this game is the slow release of content. F2p games need need need new content as often as possible, preferably every month. Hotfixes do not count.

Nosgoth is peaking at ~3k on steam. Worse games than this have peaked at 10-12k on obt launch. 3k is where a game with a good start would be after it started slowly dying.

Unless Psyonix picks up the pace on fixes/content, I really wouldn't be surprised if the game did die sooner rather than later.

20th Feb 2015, 06:50
What has to be understood about the Free2Play versus Pay2Win models is that both have been experienced by Psyonix and Nosgoth and have been flexed in different ways too. Most people forget that, even with some degree of randomness, the game could have been exploited as something along the lines of Pay2Win back when Immortal Founders Packs were a thing, with the 5 free chests of weapons and the like that had buffs which could far surpass what you were facing in the normal mesh of players. Those were done away with some time ago, and now we exclusively have the "cosmetic upgrades" that you see through skins and the like, the exception being you can still buy abilities with runestones to keep and maintain them. However, again, you could do the same simply by farming enough in game, so it's not like your chances were increased of getting a better ability as they remained heavily the same.

With regards to the time tables on bug fixes, content, trying to increase the user base and the like, we can say that two out of three isn't too bad. Often enough, the content is being pushed out at a rate that is pretty comfortable for both the community and the developers. They have laid out a majority of their road map as to what they have and what they want to do, and so far, they're doing a pretty good job of sticking to it. For instance, I asked Corey a couple of weeks ago on stream about the prospect and status of Spectator Mode and he told me flat out that it was in the QA Process. Good! Great! We pushed them on it and it came out. Was it everything we were expecting? No. Are there bugs and kinks to be worked out? You bet. And it also comes down to whom is processing these features, who is really developing them. Most things are through Psyonix, but some things are outsourced to Square. What has to be kept in mind is that, among other things, their current pipeline of content takes priority, definitely, but they aren't that far behind on bug fixes either. Myself and others have reported a number of bugs to the likes of Greg and others, and we have been given positive feedback, thanks for reporting them (because the only bug you can't fix is the one you can't report) and many of them have been fixed, worked around, or taken out so that they can be properly addressed. Now, I'm not saying it's all been smooth sailing by any means--because I'm not, but bugs like the ones that totally crashed lobbies and prevented them from starting? It took maybe two weeks to fix entirely, but they were on it from the moment it was reported and seen. In comparison to the content pipeline and the bug fixes as reported, you can see how worrying about the immediate and dynamic growth of Nosgoth isn't the real immediate goal here, and I'm actually really grateful for that. Psyonix and Square have come together to bring you something that is as close to functional as possible, to make sure you aren't roped in by some fancy graphics and a few artificial ratings by some magazine to make you pay 20 dollars for a game that's broken and never makes it out of what would be compared to as alpha stage (sometimes pre-alpha) that games that have hit Steam Greenlight for instance have done, offering "Early Access" in exchange for anything even RESEMBLING functional.

What I've seen as the main comparison in this thread is Nosgoth to TF2, because comparing a game that's been around for 10+ years works as the model for something that's been around, at most, two. When I played TF2 frequently, it felt like it took weeks, months, years for something to come out that truly felt dynamic and wowed me. Remember how long it took for the Engineer Updates to come in, only to face constant complaints about how "whoever tested this was on drugs" and the like? How long was the Engineer update teased for? 6 months? A year? Nearly two years? And in that time, what was teased? Oh right--something completely different than what was released. And even now, as mentioned, TF2 can be VERY Pay 2 Win with the crates and the like to increase your chances or speed of crafting something new that came out.

Hackers are few and far between, and I can say that having played this game since April of last year. The ONLY reason why you would see more now isn't because of suddenly the game is broken, but rather than the player base has been opened up by going into open beta--something to be expected of any game.

I really do feel that the steps being taken are primarily ones that are moving forward. Steps that are being made to increase the end over end experience of a player in game and to make it more entertaining and to offer something different than what the market is flooded with. Nosgoth could have just as easily been another Post-Apocalyptic Sandbox Open World Zombie Simulator and thankfully it wasn't because we didn't need another 12 of those in a market of 100 of those games already. The team and studio picked their niche and style to move with the game, they have openly supported those who support them (Streamers, Testers, etc., etc.) and they continue to attempt to be as transparent in their development and with their business plans as possible and that, to me, is what helps to grow a game and a community. And, while it may be a slow, steady growth with bumps along the way, the arrow is still pointed upward, and that's what has to be kept in perspective.

20th Feb 2015, 07:25
With regard to the hacks, while I agree they are there (I have seen them as far back as alpha, though not as often now) I am among those who think more experienced players are being mistaken for it. This week alone I was called a cheat on three different occasions by three different players, all in different lobbies.

Because I've been playing so long and rarely ever leave a match (with all that adding up), I seem to have the MMR of a lower to mid range player.